Okay Tinder into in the call. Everyone is here microphone off. Amazing guys. Thank you. I'm gonna keep adding you, whenever everyone else join, keep the the channels open and now we are in 25 and more people will join so I think we can start. So good morning or good evening everyone, here we are. I'm in PST time so I'm in California here is like very early in the morning and good morning for you if it's that two we have you know, the pleasure to see to pass some time with Shailesh. She lashes has 20 plus years of experience in developing computer graphics software innovating in virtual reality and augmented reality space. And he just like accepted to have like a little bit of a call with us here. He's a director at Samsung. Of course. We will be doing some question to him and feel free also to test your question in the chat. Of course try to be nice and don't test anything that you know it's like sensitive or NDA not approved. I also want to remind that this is like a podcast that runs almost like every two or three weeks with special special guests that are from the industry. I really tend to have a lot of people that worked like hands on on things I created initially this podcast for people that wanted to enter the profession so for young students they wanted to know more about unity but then scaled up after I invited a lot of guests and Norman which is the person that holds the A RMR via discord which is 1000 and Plus member just asked me to join his discord and just have this podcast as a like recurring event. So this is a live version of this event and we are happy to have Shailesh so thanks for being here. I'm gonna stop talking and please like, the first question is really like, you know, let's start with you. You've been working in star for a while. What led you there and tell us a little bit more about your experience.
Everybody hates you. Just want I just want to make sure that I'm audible properly. Okay. And for having me on your podcast, I love you and glad to talk on a podcast and share my journey and my ideas on on VR and xr and how I reached where I am right now and and I'll be happy to share some of your thoughts and experience some ideas with you. So my journey in XR started around 20 years back I was fresh out of college, graduated from a college called Indian Institute of Technology in India. And it was around 1999 the.com era and and like everybody I started working on enterprise software applications and after a couple of years I realized that so my my major at during my undergrad was mechanical engineering and I was very fascinated with the things like engineering drawing cat. So that was my start of my my inclination towards graphics if I can say that. And I wanted to get into an area which is closer to CAD and which is closer to mechanical engineering. So I wanted to do something graphics and then I was applying for my master's in us and I discovered this lab called virtual reality application center. That is at I was at university and it was one of its kind lab. Very, I mean, this is 2002 so 2002 VR was not really heard and known in the mainstream mainstream industry. And even I wasn't much aware other than having some idea about this thing, some sci fi technique technology. So I explored more on that area and I spoke to the professor's there and I really liked what they were doing. So I joined our state's virtual reality application center in 2002. The graduate student graduated from there with a master's degree and worked on quite a lot of virtual reality applications at that time virtual reality we didn't have the HMDs and wearable technology that that time. So we are was mostly used or confined to what we what we used to call caves. Those were six sided rooms with where you can project on all the sites with the stereoscopic images and you were the students could take classes and you entered the caves. And caves stand for I think Computer Aided visual environment. So and the inventor of cave happened to be my major professor, Dr. Catalina Cruz she was she still considered the one of the pioneers of VR and graphics in us. So that was the start of my journey. I worked on quite a few projects from John Deere and caterpillar. And and the start of my work in VR was through my master's thesis which was on so so in industry is large VR models mechanical VR models are represented using either VR ml or some kind of scene graph. Some of the scene graphs are still used in industry some I have died during the last 20 years. And, and my my thesis was how to optimize the scene graph so that so that the rendering and traversal of the scene graph is much, much faster. And so yeah, so in short, that was the start of my journey in VR. And then I entered the the mainstream industry I went to California Bay Area for for my for my job after my master's and I realized we are just not dead in the mainstream, but still, graphics had a lot of other applications. So I worked on on a card startup in San Francisco, I worked for a gaming content development company called Das das 3d. And so they make software similar to Maya or 3ds Max. It's called DAZ Studio. So and then I joined Intel's real sense team. So they were Intel was founding the real sense team, which for those who are not aware of real sense, is a is a depth camera just like what Microsoft used to have what they call Kinect. I think Kinect is now obsolete, but Kinect made a lot of a lot of noise in the computer vision and gaming industry. And Intel was exploring with the idea of having depth camera enabled for for laptops and mobile devices. So at Intel, my I came back to kind of VR AR where I was working on projects where I was using the depth camera technology for AR use cases as well as computer vision use cases. So though at that time, there was no ar core and AR kit, were not there so they were other initial AR SDK is like before, or they were the company called moto which was later acquired by Apple I believe. And we dabbled with something called prime sense camera, which is now part of I think all the apple front facing camera
I think somebody needs to mute
Yeah, sorry.
No, you're good. Yeah.
All right. Thanks. Yeah. So so we for at that time, initial days of AR This is around 2011 2012 initial data VR. We used to have VR based prototypes POC even on mobile phones, but, but that was without any depth sensors. You think, as they gave like euphoria, and material and few other initial SDKs but they weren't. They didn't have things like occlusion in in AR so the AR models would always appear in front of the video, video frame. So we introduced the concept of within depth cameras to understand the depth inside the actual camera scene and then insert the the 3d object into that depth where it can or may not occlude the soil basically properly emerge in the in the real camera feed and then I was planning to move relocate back to India, and around same time Oculus had come on the scene around 2014 timeframe and and Samsung, Samsung Bangalore approached me one fine morning and says they are opening up a VR team in Samsung Bangalore, because they are partnering with with Oculus to come up with their VR headset, which was later released as Gear VR, which was I think, discontinued two three years back, but Gear VR was the worst Samsung partnership with Oculus where you insert the mobile phone and inside the Gear VR, and you have a three degree of freedom, VR. So yeah, so that way, it's that way. That was I came back to VR after around 10 years of graduating from from Iraq and, and, and started this team in Samsung Bangalore, where I set up a team working on Gear VR, I worked closely with Oculus folks. And we did a lot of things, a lot of changes in Android framework. To enable we are and to meet the VR Indian requirements. And we get a lot of prototypes. We enable a lot of VR based, VR based 2d movie or game viewing experiences. If you if you if you have seen the Netflix app in in VR quest, something similar where you can I'm using my phone, but instead of playing the game on, on a five inch phone screen, I can put it inside Gear VR and watch the same five five inch phone screen on a large screen inside the virtual world. And play the game is on the baby screen using using controllers. So and and when I was working at Samsung, I was thinking about what kind of use cases we are can solve. What how these technologies can be applied in, in real world what kind of what kind of startups can come out of these. So I was thinking about a lot of things and talking to a lot of people and then I met met a small company. And the founders were architects, like real estate architects and and they were also switching from their regular architect journey to you to seeing how though that the entire process of designing can be gamified gamified and also can be brought to VR. So that's why I joined forces with them. And we got three more game game developers and game programmers and created this company called Smart with x. And at Smart Village, we try to see how we are and the immersion in VR can solve a lot of pain points that the design industry architectural design industry has been facing. So so that was a very eye opening experience for me that how these these kinds of technologies can can really, really help people who don't even who are not even techies who are just designers who have been using things like maybe pen and paper drawing or AutoCAD or Revit or SketchUp kind of tools, all they live and suddenly they can start visualizing those designs by standing right in the middle of those designs and viewing them in real life size immersion. And perhaps maybe even change the design in VR. So the possibilities seemed endless. So yeah, so that was that's how I ended up completely working on the VR. So I got introduced to the game engines, GT 3d and an unreal thing I want to build on Unreal four. Yeah, and then I came back after two, three years when I launched the product, the product was successful and I wanted to something else I joined back to Intel and Intel had set up a team called Visual Studio, visual Cloud team. And they were exploring use cases like volumetric streaming or AR cloud. So that was that seemed quite fascinating. So I joined that team worked with a lot of us based companies who are working on volumetric video capture volumetric video streaming, as well as company like sixty.ai who were working on on volumetric on AR cloud. And these technologies are still upcoming, they're still getting matured. And they still need the traction of, of not only the big players like the apples and the Googles and the Microsoft's, but also the small companies and studios and entrepreneurs who want to use these technologies. These different technologies XR cannot be clubbed into a single technology of graphics or rendering. It's a mixture of several other technologies. Networking has become a very important piece of of that. And with five G available where you can have gigabit network connection between devices with 5g and so the opportunities are endless. And so yeah, that's that's how that that's I mean, time is still closely watching how this different industry is evolving and but right now at Samsung, I'm working, leading the Samsung GPU team where we are solving the most basic problem of VR, which is to render things in at high frame rate with with realistic rendering, like Ray tracing and other graphics technology.
Amazing, thank you so much for the introduction. I feel like you know like it's it's so cool to know like what, not such a long way like really congrats for the career first of all, like Thank you. I'm really honored to be here and just talking to you with all of the stuff that you did. I heard that you've been involved in some architectural design collaboration. So that has been a little bit of my you know, where I started. And maybe we can transition to a question that is more like, you seems like you, you know, I liked the fact that you said you've been into so many things and you still you're waiting to see where these kind of goes and that says a lot about how how kind of like non mature steel is, is the field even if it's been kind of a while for you around 20 years in the industry. I feel like a lot of problems. Have not been standardized yet. There is still a lot of things that need to be defined or need to be accepted from, you know, multiple parties in the same way. Still the Wild West, they see the common. Yeah, that's true. Absolutely a lot of opportunities and that's why it's exciting too. I think that a question that I have is like you know, there's been a lot of products in the last years. Not necessarily about Samsung because you know, I don't want to get into a zone that is like something you cannot talk about. But what are the VR products or AR products? Let's we can we can stay awesome. VR seems like is more your reality, but what are the products that impressed you the most? And the reason why they impressed you the most?
To me, to me, the products are evolving. But my first personal, VR even though I worked, I used to write from Gear VR which was the phone based VR headset to Oculus Rift to Oculus CV one, two HTC Vive which, whichever, whichever all wired VR headsets. But when I bought my personal Oculus go that's when I realized that this $200 device can open anybody's world into VR and when these days when we all buy $1,000 phone every year, we every couple of years, these $200 Oculus go device, which is a standalone device, which doesn't require any phone which doesn't require any PC. It's a standalone device. That was for me the kind of the iPod moment in the VR. We our industry. I was really impressed i and then when I graduated from Oculus go to Oculus quest to tax where I am which which for those who are unaware, is has a better viewing, viewing angle and more importantly has the six degrees of freedom so you can walk around in the room. So that was an old squat rack around $400. So that is still for me that was like the iPhone moment of the VR industry. So even though now we are talking about the 3500 vision Pro from from Apple, which everybody's talking about, but for me the more than the devices, it's the technology behind it. That will really give a lot of traction. A lot of evolution to VR industry. Techno I mean devices will keep on developing I'm pretty sure Apple will come up with a vision Pro or vision light maybe next year which will be this $1,000 which most people can afford to buy so an Oculus has released their AR C through VR headset or Mr. Headset Oculus quest Pro I believe we just told them $1,500 So all these devices are coming up every year. But for me the real crux of the meat is the networking part of it, the storage part of it, the cloud infrastructure as well as the platform with the CPU and the GPU. Microsoft, Facebook turned into meta, and their dream was to make a Metaverse which I still believe in in their dream even though a lot of people have kind of lost upon the idea of Metaverse that is too early. We are not ready yet and Facebook is shooting themselves in the foot. Bye. Bye. Bye. Turning towards the metaverse idea, but maybe maybe it's a few years early, but the idea is right. Maybe the the technology is the supporting technologies and not fully evolved. But the idea is is right so it's about these small discoveries or these small developments every year. It will be hard to pick one particular device or or or something which is eye catching. I think all of them are the journey we have seen from the first Oculus Rift, a prototype that was created by Oculus to 2014 two all the way to vision pro vision pro by by Apple this year. There have been several milestone we are an XR development and we are still yet to see the groundbreaking headset or AI or wearable which is the pure AR see through wearable. I mean all the AR devices right now are not see through they are through the camera. Right even the vision Pro is not a see through it's through the camera and I know a lot of companies including Qualcomm are working on see through wearable which were just like these kind of glasses and there will be some retinal projection on the side which will project the imagery right on my retina and the gland. There'll be no screen in front of me so I can see. So that will be the real immersive AR experience but till then, this it will be an incremental journey from from phone based AR device to camera based wearable camera based XR device and Mr. Device. But yeah, we still have a long way to go where we can have glasses like before for our completely a and I think more than we are which has been sort of limited to gaming industry or entertainment industry. It will be AR which will which will bring a regular consumer into into enjoying or using the AR VR experience on a daily basis for several use cases. So right now even my Oculus go or my Oculus quest to I take out whenever I want to play a game or something but from a regular say on working on something or communication on talking to somebody I don't use that. But that will be the groundbreaking thing when these devices can be used for those kinds of daily use cases. So we are still yet to see that device which will really be the turning point in the in the innovation in the evolution of xr industry.
So you talked about like the fact that you're focusing on this problem of you know, frame rates and performance from my understanding. What do you think I'm curious to know what do you think about this topic which have been growing in the industry, which is about remote rendering. Remote rendering seems to be the go to for a lot of a lot of essentially a lot of devices because can really cut the need of having, you know, literally a computer in your own glasses so something that you can render on the cloud. So with a strong connection, you might eventually be able to reduce drastically the form factor. And I feel like also because you know like just thinking about how our phones work and everything. Having a more you know, strict connection to the cloud may lead to use these devices with a reduced form factors maybe for you know, like standard communication like you like you mentioned, which that wouldn't, you know, would would capture a lot of a lot of audience that is not exactly for gaming, but is more about you know. Yeah, so I see also some comments here. So what do you think about that?
So, you're talking about remote rendering and the challenges for remote? Yeah, yes. feat. That's that's that's the issue with all the OEMs or the device manufacturers are trying to solve they want to be our requires extreme rendering capabilities which a phone device cannot maybe maybe have, and also the other challenges. The challenges are the ergonomic or challenges where you want to keep the device as light as possible. And where you can push the real competition both on the compute side as well as render side on to the cloud or any remote GPU farm where you can have several T of t flops based compute compute or where you can use multiple multiple high end server GPU to render devices render your your your your games. So the main challenge for again, that is the connectivity and the latency that is being introduced. Because of because of networks I think those will be slowly fixed by as 5g becomes popular and 5g start spreading in the entire world. So those kinds of remote rendering use cases or remote streaming use cases can can become more prominent can become more prevalent and can can be easily done.
So yeah, like I feel I feel like the same is definitely a challenging but promising field like if that would work with the without lag and stuff would be, you know, even like solution that bring half of the weight somewhere else instead of the device would be would be incredible. Let's see where it goes. But we'll keep an eye on this. So let's we almost had like a half an hour. I'm kinda want to open the questions a little bit earlier because I like this kind of like discussion, vibe instead of just going one way. So I know that Ellie you raised your hand so please go ahead and go with it.
Thank you. Thank you Alessio for providing the space for us. Do you guys hear me? Yes, it's
gonna hear me.
Awesome. All right. So thank you for providing the space. Thank you, Shailesh for being here, providing knowledge to us. I really appreciate it. So I think my question is, we've talked a lot about like the main discussion here. We're talking about the technology, right? AR VR mixed reality, however, like we can't help but talk about use cases. Right. And you mentioned some of the use cases that you've seen so far that you've found interesting. So, you know, there's for example, e commerce there's real estate where, which are amazing use cases for AR for example, but like we've also talked a little about a little bit about gaming, right? We cannot help but talk about gaming as well. So my question is, do you think the biggest opportunities of the AR VR mixed reality technology or maybe the the mixed reality world, do you think the biggest opportunities are going to be related to gaming? Or do you think that there are going to be other consumer facing applications that are going to be able to leverage the technology a lot better than gaming because I've, you know, I'm big into researching the field, you know, often reading studies from consulting companies, and often these researchers are talking about how gaming is going to be integrated with social in the near future. And so I would love to hear your perspective on this.
I think I think yeah, I like to question. It's a good question, Ellie, and she gaming has taken VR to where it is till now, and whether that is sufficient for it to become a mainstream industry. Yes, because, I mean, think about our gaming consoles. Despite having the despite PC gaming is still very popular and very powerful. Also, Microsoft and Sony are selling their consoles by design, right? So so even if just left till gaming, even that will be enough to take VR and get a lot of traction for VR. But again, that will be limited to gamers which will be which is still a small percentage, in terms of in terms of revenue that will that will still be able to create a period a lot of revenue for the for the OEMs and the content providers. But it if it wants to explode the way the smartphone industry has exploded, where multiple multiple OEMs and manufacturers and companies are doing billion dollar businesses together. I'm not even just confining my my number to Apple or Samsung, I mean even small players are out there in the market and bury the play for everybody. So if we are want to reach to that level, I mean, if if we want we are to reach to a level where what we have seen in Steven Spielberg movie Ready Player One that will require I mean, I know that was about meta words, but the whole concept of meta words is that it's your second world. And whatever you do in your first world or your real world, you can do the same in met in the second just Metaverse, which is not just gaming. So in order to in order for the metaverse to be realized, and that's what I think Mark Zuckerberg vision also is that you want to do everything you want to work at 9am in the morning, okay, put on your VR headset and you have a five screen desktop in front of you and you can see all your colleagues and I mean if you want to get off your work and you want to go for socializing, you put on a VR headset and you can go socialize with your buddies in a cafe or in a remote place if you want to play if you want to connect with your family. If you want to relax and do meditation, the idea being here all these areas I mean I'm not even talking about the business enterprise use cases like E commerce and and real estate definitely those b2b areas will will find the use cases and they are finding the use cases. The only issue with b2b use cases is the penetration I mean, if if a real estate designer is using VR, he will have what she will have to carry the VR headset to the end customer or the end consumer to show their design. So it's just a matter of penetration penetration. But in terms of use cases, the b2b use cases e commerce is again a more more of a b2b b2c use case where the back end can be still created. Even if the front end may or may not be 2d or 3d or or via the back end it can still be created and that's what I did in my startup at Prezi. So those of you who want to Go Go's God fear more about it, you they can they can Google ready to DVI. So what we did in that startup was we realized that although we are going for the moon and we want to we are imagining a world where everybody will use VR to view a visual visual design because that's the best. That's what we believe is the best medium to show these designs. But then we want we realize that the back end can be the same but you should be able to show them on a phone on a on an iPad. On a desktop on a browser everywhere. So, so yes, to answer your question, game mirth or gaming industry will be enough to take VR to a certain distance. But if if we are is to be become a to enter into a Metaverse, then there should be more and more end user consumer level use cases that need to come up
thank you, she less to answer. Let's go on with some questions. In the queue there is Dinesh or Dinesh if I miss correct, neck Dinesh.
Dinesh, okay. Yeah, please. Go ahead.
Can you hear me? So, questions like, I am a developer Bozo. I have emotions like the you know that compared to the mobile revolution, like peoples are very likely to use a mobile compared to the these VR headsets. So can you please tell me why it's not getting popular compared to the mobile's? Like, why? Yeah. Why
is your question why is that?
My perspective, I thought like that, you know, it's the VR headsets are really heavy. Like the people who we are expecting people know that they're not like wearing the glasses or but if you wear some kind of VR headsets, you feel there's something on your head, even if you're continuously we have some headsets like, you know, comfortably that were less weight. That's it like a quest or something. It's even if you were more than openers, you feel some kind of stress on your forehead or something, it will tightly grab overhead. So I thought that's a main problem to people not getting introduced. To the we are compared to the mobiles. So what do you guys are thinking about this?
So I see there are three main reasons why we are headset, not as popular as a mobile phone. First of all, we use our mobile phone at least my screen time if I struggled to keep it less than five hours every day, it just goes beyond five hours no matter what.
Give more than five hours I notice regularly. We can't can't feel that we are using that thing continuously emerging towards that mobile
because because if I have to order something ordered a food I can order online if I have to go to somewhere I can Oberon on my phone, if I have to talk to somebody, I can do FaceTime or WhatsApp. So everything is available on a phone screen. So that's where we are struggling right now. Little bit is to find that killer use case where it's not a killer use case which will force everybody to have a VR headset, even if just for that just one use case, right? That's number one. Number two is the cost. Although we are quest to if equestrian now released is still less than $500 which is still a lot especially in in countries outside us. And if you want to go for a high end one like real quest Pro, which is beyond the reach of regular, regular consumer not, I'm not talking about a prosumer and the third and the most important part is the economics. The economics is not very convenient, like you said Kanki headset on your phone and it doesn't sit and everybody had a different geometry of their face. With their nose and and VR headset cannot be made convenient or comfortable for everybody's face design. And also the fact that it's for good or for the bad. It's it's very asymmetric design where it's more weight on the front, less fit on the so that's number three and number four is the sensor fusion used in VR headsets. And the rendering capability very still is still some latency which has not been able to solve I mean, we use techniques like time warp and Space War to make it render in less than 16 milliseconds or not either eight milliseconds with 120 FPS. You can still notice the latency when you move your head like sideways there still latency which can start making some of the people dizzy. Those who are prone to motion sickness they can start feeling dizzy. So I know I have given lots of demos and quite a few people will just look at it from outside when I will have them put it on they will hesitate because they still know I will feel dizzy and I'll I'll feel sick. So these are the three main reasons tail and Microsoft or sorry Apple has done a smart thing by making it very slim and having a separate connected pod which you can put in your pocket. So the computation is happening somewhere else not on the device itself. And there's a small hassle of having a small wire which is it can be made I think I don't know whether it's wireless or it's connected but even then it's a smarter thing to do then metaquotes too bulky. Even the quest three is still I believe I have not seen it but still pretty light I believe, but they are still getting there where it can be as light as sunglasses for example. And till that point, the penetration will not be as much as what smartphone has made.
At the same time, so we have to compare the quality things though, we can show the 16k or some kind of videos on cameras, which has a lot of high quality videos. But the same thing we can't approach the VR headsets. I don't know about the vision pro because they most
well, videography if not one of the main use cases for the camera and also called the headset, the headset and and because they are compute heavy. Having high high frame rate video capabilities will drastically affect the battery life. Yeah until we have things like video streaming capability in VR. At that point, I don't think video capabilities are a must technology for for VR headsets.
Actually, that because most of people's want to use the VR know that how to say that mobile or some kind of systems are kind of they use med use for the entertainment purpose majorly. So I think that's a one of main matter too, because people's are afraid to use VR. Like we can't see that much of quality content inside a VR compared to the iconic systems or any you know, iPhones kind of things. So yeah, maybe two days before I got a client like they asked me to do the same they show me like 360 video which has 16k qualities. They want that same quality that that inside they want the same quality inside the VR, they want to show the exact same thing inside the VR. So we try to upload the same thing but you know that questo will have quite very low resolution in buildings. So yeah, pick it up put them how we can you know improve resolution
so I just want to go on with some questions here because you know, like I if there is a continuation of the of the question maybe we continue in discord because you just want to give the same opportunity to everyone since we have such a short amount of time. Sorry to interrupt you guys. Please Yosh go go ahead and Dinesh please feel free to write in the chat directly on Discord channel. Okay.
It does something in the chat with me. Yeah, I
think you can just connect on on my LinkedIn show.
Hi inaudible. Yeah. Thank you, Alicia. So my question was a bit different from that of VR. As you mentioned, you have worked in the graphics industry. And you have a bit unreal. So my question is, like, majority of the companies are trying to move into the metaverse space or 3d graphics space. So how is the Samsung TV or phone lineup enabling 3d content on TV? Maybe by using the game engines like Unreal or unity? So do they have support for Samsung's OS Tizen for the TVs and other display devices, and the second question is Why Why did Samsung discontinue Gear VR? So
okay, I'll take it for a second question first, why did Samsung continue this work discontinue Gear VR? So I cannot speak on behalf of the decision makers because I was not part of that. In fact, I was not even with Samsung at that point and to clarify, I am working for Samsung semiconductors which is a different company than Samsung mobile company within the different company. So just these two clarifications, so in my view, the way the reason Gear VR was discontinued was because Samsung I think may have been just testing the water and to see what will be the traction for such a device. And they and they knew and I think everybody knows the future is the standard on devices and standard on fixed of devices six degree of freedom devices and for having said that I cannot say or not say for sure that something will not come back with something better in the future. But I think here we are. attempt was just to maybe test it but these are all my views. I don't I can't say on behalf of something on that
syrup. Because
yeah, what are the again? Yes.
So is there any support for game engines like Unreal or unity for Samsung Display devices or the TV display devices which use Tizen as it will be like a next step for Samsung to enter into the 3d space.
Yes I cannot say for sure. But I don't know that. Because I don't work for the Samsung TV. But from an outsider's perspective, I can say unreal. games made an unreal may not be supportable on TV because TVs don't have that much compute power. Okay. Thank you.
Please, Sara, go ahead with the question.
He's Elish. First of all thanks a lot for sharing your insights. It was really amazing to hear your experience and learn from you. It was really inspirational. So Salacia wanted to check with you. So when it comes to you know building a enterprise application enterprise let's say we are experience for customer let's say you know automotive company wants to build it. Let's say there is a retail company might be you know, device or any of those right. Since the these were the use cases which were getting discussed while this I went to three years back when metal was was into the talks. So what are the challenges or what are the you know, first, what are the preliminary stages that we do that we take to build up these platforms? And second, what are the challenges that you feel that you know, are gonna come by? Is it around the implementation of these old projects at a large scale or or how's it?
I think the first challenge is to come up with an idea. Come up with a use case for the automobile company, what kind of use case they want to realize or enable with using VR or Levi's or apparel company what kind of use case they want to come up in VR. So okay, yeah, the use case, if they use case scream for VR, it makes sense to use VR. But yeah, and for automobile I can see there is a big Euphorbia because an Audi and other almost all the big major German automobile companies, they use VR in there, not not only in their showroom, but also in their manufacturing plants.
Definitely. Might be Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry to stop here.
Yeah. So, if I take that as an example, and you are saying what would be the challenge to develop these,
these platforms at a scale might be for for a lot of users or just implementing it as a as a at a scale? So let's say you talk about Audi right now for let's say, you know, AI engine design, right? So there could be a lot of use cases around that using VR, you know, engineers out there can do that designing prototyping of that engine, right. So since there will be a lot of user, you know, interaction over there, so So what are the challenges that you feel?
So for? I don't know, what exactly do you mean by platform and scale here? And by scale, I imagine it's the scale of how many concurrent users are using that. And, and bad platform. I mean, you mean the application in this case, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. So, take take an example of collaborative VR and collaborative VR is a very useful field, especially in the field of design. And it was part of Treasury and smart with that we enable collaboratively designing the real state design by multiple people. Same idea can be applicable for automobile also say manufacturing sector of automobile where multiple designers and engineers are working on a part of Indian model, maybe reviewing the design or Jenga design concurrently from different geographies by putting on their VR headset and looking at the VR. Model of that engine in front of them. Now, I think your question was what will be the challenge to do it at scale. The challenge to do it at the scale is if it's similar to what you have for any kind of a shared or collaborative application, concurrency will be a challenge. Networking will be a challenge. And yeah, because a single data is shared across multiple people. So I think concurrency will be the major challenge for these.
Okay, okay. Okay.
Cool, cool solution. More on to that but definitely, I'll collaborate.
You can correct me and connect with me on LinkedIn. We can discuss separately more on that show.
Sure. Sure. Thanks a lot. Yeah, want to take the opportunity also to say like, the end also, this course is like creating networking. I feel like was a Shailesh logistic brought up how important is networking in the industry and understanding what other people are doing? So please feel free to join this the community on Discord, which are 1000 Plus members that work in XR on their enthusiast about XR. This is really, you know, it's like very much like a boost in seeing what's what's around you and like, maybe you will discover something you didn't know maybe you get like a job opportunity out of it. Like a lot of you know, really they're just plus joining something like that. So we are like almost like nine minutes away from the end of the call. If there is any like short final questions. Otherwise, I'm just going to try to you know, wrap up this because time is important for all of us, especially our guest. So thank you for First of all, thank you so much for being with us for a full hour. And tell us about all of your you know all of your career. It's incredible and seems like there is still a lot to cover. And it's incredible how people can be in this in this field for like 1015 20 years and they still like you're like oh maybe this is gonna happen. Who knows?
Like, start it we are we are seeing early days of VR and AR and Sorry, sorry, I'm interrupting you but I was so honored that any initial days of AR and VR we are just solving the scratching the surface by resolving issues like rendering at a fast pace. And for AR for a longest time the issue was slam slam simultaneous localization and mapping how fast you can track the camera and how fast you can compute where your camera is what angle your camera is looking at all those kinds of things. So these are very, very initial problem that that people have industry has tried to solve there are far far more newer technologies are coming up. For example, I have started to look at this field called neural rendering. And this brings in machine learning deep learning as well as 3d graphics into into a similar or same under the same technology. And one of the use cases for that has been showcased in recent years using very famous paper and technology called neural radio fields. And era. I think some I saw somebody mentioned that on the on the chat. So these and volumetric video capture is one of the applications of nerve and volumetric video capture and live streaming is another challenging thing that has been not solved properly. And imagine being able to to a stream I don't know how many 50 that they are but Taylor's latest concert streaming in volumetric video live across millions of viewers that are watching them on their VR headset. I know my daughter who the big 50 Taylor Swift Fan, she will be thrilled to watch a Taylor Swift volumetric could live concert on on the VR headset. So these are just imaginations we are looking at. And these imaginations are kind of becoming real and we are we are closed we are closer to there. But yeah, even though I've been in industry for 20 years, we were just cracking the GL things are happening now.
I would love to be in a concert that is like 3d rendered streamed live and connect with your people around you and feel like I feel like it's all about improving that. That presents the in be more high fidelity. I think I've seen like some demos with NBA games. I remember there was this very famous demo they became viral. And they were like a lot of speculation is this real time it's not like I don't think it was but if I'm not mistaken, but like I think the vision is there it just about like I think the vision is is pretty much locked down like a lot of people have a lot of amazing ideas. It's just, you know, filling the gap from actually making it and through all of the progress that you are also working on you know, like improving frame rates is probably never up and all put together
otherwise
sorry,
go ahead. So yeah, Intel had done a demo in CES I think 2014 2015 timeframe where they had put several depth cameras in the 1400 Stadium in San Francisco or around it and they captured the whole game in, in volumetric capture the what the whole use case they call voxel, I think voxel is anyway, a 3d form of pixel. So, so if you had that kind of a capture of an NBA game or NFL game, you can not only watch the game in volumetric, you can walk to the middle of the field and watch it from there. Imagine that so that'll be the real thing. And same thing goes for a VR movie if you for all the Indian fans if you're watching latest Shahrukh Khan Movies, we watch on a 2d screen but if you can just walk into the movie and walk across a tree, so So those days are not very far and I know a lot of lot of movie producers are playing with this idea that there have been few experimental VR movies where you can walk around in the in the movie, but yeah, these will enable the VR to be really create someone a bow experience for a general consumer
Well, we're gonna close the call and thanks once again Shailesh Shailesh for for having the time with us. Once again, if you have like additional question you want to follow up? You have you know all of the LinkedIn contacts on the invitation of this call or if you want to just join discord. Here's the link again. Let me just share it. Again that I think Norman just shared it also. If you have any recommendation for guests or you would like to be part of this series, please feel free free. Feel free to reach out anytime. And thanks again. Shailesh and incredible career congratulation and looking forward to see what's next for you. Awesome.
Thanks for having me on the podcast. It was great to talk to you and get to talk to everybody else and feed into seeing them to hear them like everybody in this this area. Thank you. Alright, have a great day, everybody. Let's keep connected. Thank you bye. Thank you bye Thank you
