Hello, everyone, my name is Alessio. And we are still on everything everywhere XR podcast. This time we have Adam as guest, which I met at MIT reality hack, we build together VR experience, you got the shirt, I was mentoring the group that built very interesting, a virtual reality project called reco VR. And they also won tons of like recognition and prices. And they did like such a great job and it was really happy to see them succeeding. Because their mission and what they believe in, I think Callum has like a great connection also with the project. Because, uh, you know, like, everything that you're focused on, and everything that you work on every day and what you're doing now. So I really want to first of all, introduce you. And I gonna forget something for sure, but I will leave you to complete all of my you know, fill the gaps of my presentation. Adam is like an electrical engineer, and also VR intrapreneur he loves developing technologies that give us like a new perspective on our world, or implementing in more particularly more in detail. autonomous drone systems then inspect some some plants like power grids, and just lately became like, Adam, like become very interested in augmented reality virtual reality because a lot of that interface that we find in XR kind of like, comes very handy in the adoption of management of a lot of, you know, big systems. And just if we think about engineering, and architecture, XR is kind of like booming now, because there is a lot of you know, from from Unity, reflect to all of the new things that are coming out. Now, there is such like a great request of building spaces in different ways. So yeah, please have them go ahead. And I'd said the first question or opening question, did I also, you know, tend to give to everyone that participated. This podcast is like, what do you what led you to be where you are at? And what kind of interest brought you to discover XR first.
Alright, cool. Thanks for that intro. And yeah, just gonna jump in back to what got me to where I am now. I think a big part of it was like, you know, especially even as a kid growing up, I was really into like rocks and minerals. And just like, the way I had a field manual and would go around with friends and like, break open geocodes. And in high school, that kind of converted to like, I was really into magnets and like, like, how are we like getting this energy out of rocks. And so trying to understand, like the physics of energy generation that went through, so I studied electrical engineering at Ohio State, and I'm hearing in my head people are like, say v. Ohio State. No. They just like trademark that. But anyways. So basically, I got really into physics and like, so he studied with electrical engineering, I studied, I focus on sustainable energy and power systems. So I did student groups on campus, focus on clean energy, and compost and sustainability and all that. And I actually avoided programming as much as possible as a student. And it was when I graduated, and, like, got my first full time job, like out of college. I got, I bought myself, I was working at Honda and I bought myself the Oculus dev kit to on Kickstarter. Just as like a like, good job. You did it out. I'm like, like, by yourself, every now and then. And I just got really into it then. And I was kind of like, well, crap. Now I really want to build for this, but I don't know. I didn't learn programming traditionally. And so while I was working, I just use like the evening like, oh, graduated, I don't have homework anymore. I'll just teach myself programming. It's like given to that. So I I started with three that Jas and then switched over to unity. And kind of like while I was doing that, I was also I eventually switched over Were to doing engineering work with American Electric Power through different like engineering roles. And it was a bit of like telecom planning, like planning out fiber routes to help improve, like communications on the power grid and stuff like that. And I became the mapper of the group a little bit just because I really like working with maps. And through that, and through a number of different projects, I've just kind of gotten specialized more so in mapping, and like, you know, trying to capture that overview effect, like this concept of like, when you see when you look from the space station down at the earth a bunch over and over and over, you just kind of get it ingrained in you like, Hey, this is where all of life is that we know about. And so I've just been honing in more and more in my career of that kind of approach of like, engineering systems, like global systems, especially, really like thinking about this in terms of power grids, but like, how do we just view this room? map it out better? And make sense of it? Yeah, and then there's Yeah, probably more projects in that vein. Well, the Okay, I'll mention sir caveum, which is like the VR, the 3d calendar thing I've been building just because that's, like, kind of what drove my diving into VR. And XR, AR everything the whole,
I remember term, but yeah, yeah, 3d come dark, please go. We did.
Okay. So the basic concept is just taking the Earth's orbit around the sun, and adding a vertical axis for time. So you're building a 3d scaffold, for all of your time based events, all your time stamps, like time is just the greatest index, it's the field that's on the most things. And so the thought is that creating this 3d structure, the student 3d world, map your time to your kind of you kind of making like a procedural memory palace, which is like, this idea of using a 3d structure to kind of help your brain like map things to visually so that you can keep track of it. So, so that's the, the, I don't know a couple minutes version of it. But the idea is to bring in, you know, start with general purpose calendar functionality, then get into health related data, like what your heart rate is throughout the day, and how you sleep and everything, and then get over to economics and like other time based data that you'd want to put in there. But that kind of stuff. Messages pictures on
that's, that's pretty. I like the idea. I think I we talked about it, but maybe we never had really the time to go deeper into that idea. At MIT reality, I was so fast everything. But you know what, like the fight really?
Yeah. There's like a part of me that considered like pausing the project, and trying to get it working on the Magic Leap, too. Because you have it there. I was like, Oh, I gotta do this. But like, no, I'll stick with the team project.
I know, it's always the issue. When you go to those, those hackathon stuff like, oh, you get to work on something you like, and you don't care about anything else, like prizes. But then you see everyone working on things, and then you get very competitive, and then you very, you get very collaborative too, because you see everyone going in one direction or the other. It's like, it's like a lot of you know, like, I think I think hackathons are just like, it's amazing, but it's hard to do really what you every time I have like a goal that I want to achieve there. I never really, I come I come home with a totally different outcome. And so that's also why I decided to be like, the last year I was like, I want to see a little bit what everyone is doing. So I was a mentor. I wasn't not like hacker or you know, stay stay up all night, like for four days. But yeah, like the going back to your project, like I think, I think is super cool, like this concept of time and space together. You call it to the calendar, but I think you know, like we are so used to see calendars on to the interface with our schedule, but we forget that that schedule is being created because of some time cycles. You know, how Earth just goes around and how like lights manifests and all of these things. So it's it becomes almost like an atlas of events from the way you live. ascribe some sort of like, you know, sort of like an archive of things that are happening in the moment, and they are recorded in, in some way around around the globe, and everyone that belongs to those parts of the world, like they have their own way to access those, those things that are a little bit, you know, it goes back to a little bit of social media based content, but I feel like this could be also a different, you know, social media interpretation. Like instead of being based, for example, on the most rated, or maybe on the top post, it could be have having like a chronological focus instead. And, and that will be a super good idea, I think, and seeing that special, especially would be person saying, I think a lot of people during, especially during COVID tried to specialize the concept of social media, who more successful with less, it's hard, it's definitely a very hard task to do. Because, you know, people are not really jumping on the media so easily. But I feel like there is so much potential it is worth just starting to work on it now and see what happens, you know,
yeah, I was on, I contracted for the smart city project in Columbus for a little bit. And they had this thing called Data stories, where it was like, every now and then we kind of like, we're building this big. At the time, we were building a big open source, Big Data repo for, like catalog system for all the cities data, and like, we do these data stores every now and then. But it was like, we'd have to create, like a new map, or like a new visualization, to tell each story. And you, you still have to, like read through this long texts for it. So a lot of this is to thinking about, like, just how do we like almost creating a medium, that would be a lot easier to tell a data story, like, Hey, this is how I got my sleep routine, like to line up with the sun and like, just be a lot healthier in the morning or something like that. Better starts today. And this is like the three months where I struggled and failed and got better and you know, went on a trip and got jet lagged or whatever.
Oh, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, like, I've been working like in in XR I've been I've been working a lot of time on kinda like user test base work. And I feel like these headsets can give you like an amount of data to you that is, you know, insane. I think is a great topic of the moment, especially after the release of, you know, apple jam Pro that got basically everything we everything we've been seeing for years is God mainstream all of a sudden, and you know, a lot of a lot of privacy, things coming up, like a lot of privacy issue rising and people are like, Oh, but what's going to happen if you're going to have that thing all day on your eyes like and this happened also, when a Facebook published the release the kind of like those reiben extension glasses that can can get you like, or like Snapchat lenses can get you like, very easily recording videos. And there is this little sensor that goes and you record these sort of like, Being John Malkovich style videos. And, and, you know, like people are concerned, but you know, like, the fact is that, like, we already have smartwatches in our wrist, and those are very incredible, valuable data, also for yourself. And it makes sense that I think it's like, it's one of the part. It's how we can evolve, you know, like it. So it's, yeah, we don't have to dismantle that just for privacy. We need to make it work somehow. Yeah.
Right. Yeah. I mean, I got the, I mean, I have to admit, I do have the Revans
i There you go. You know, I don't
I haven't like only when I'm when I'm climbing or something. And I'm like, I want to see by
the fact that you have a use for it, it just it just you know, it's the fact that I mentioned it and you have it and you have a use of it like a use case if he leaves great and also you just open the door and there is like, you know, the front of a plan. So like I don't know, like maybe not everyone knows about your your you know, maybe we can switch a little bit the argument and talk about like your journey like what have you been doing while you're there while you're in a band? If you want to expand on this topic, I feel like it would be very helpful for listeners.
Oh, totally. Yeah. So this all started I'm in a van right now this this used to be an Amazon delivery vehicle 20 19 So like, not super old, but I think they just like backed into a tree. And they probably have some policy that's like, they try to swap out cars that have or like vehicles that have been in accidents so that you know, they don't cause more accidents or whatever but but so I this kind of started like a year and a half ago ish I was in Boulder, Colorado, and the vamp Film Festival, this like nature indie film festival. And like nature, sports, indie films, kind of stuff like that, like snowboarders and people biking through mountains, and, you know, all this cool stuff. Basically. They had this raffle for this part of the film festival. And it was like, well, so I went to that there. This is a film festival that tours around. So they're coming to Columbus, which in my hometown, and I'm like, oh, go there. To see the film festival again, just because I'm like, remind myself what it was like to be in Colorado, up in the mountains. And basically, they have Yeah, they go through these raffles between showings. And your ticket is the raffle, like just going to your setup to be able to win something. And they, they're going through a lot of prizes. And they're like this last prize, whoever gets it, it's kind of to find their own way out there. And like, I didn't have a van at the time, but I had been looking at places out west to kind of like move from Ohio or just like travel to a lot. But I've been thinking about a campervan. And so I was just like, alright, like, that'd be really cool to like, as a way to encourage me to kind of go out there. And then they're like, the prize is like three free days that like leaves. I'm like, Alright, universe, I want this, like, I'm gonna go I'm gonna get by a vehicle and like, get out there. And so I won that prize. And then so I was like, alright, figure out a vehicle. I did. I made some Google Spreadsheets of basically, like, mileage versus cost. And I it was really hard to find sprinters like Mercedes sprinters that were under $100,000 and under 100,000 miles. And then I found this one. When I was back in Ohio for 42 grand for 38,000 miles. I was like, that's one of the best ones I've seen that, you know, has pretty good quality of everything and all that. So it was 2019 So I got it end up being 45 grand after like taxes, and then here's, okay, I'll grab my phone and do a little tour of it. And like I can kind of do this one too. So you have some context. But I guess here's the Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I kept I kept the shelves from the Amazon delivery vehicles, or just like those shelves and then I just use them I usually have a bed on here but this week I'm back in Ohio and I'm doing a lot of like power grid inspection drone kind of work. And so I took the bed out so I could just use all of the workspace for for working on stuff where do you sleep anyway moving gear. So I have a mattress that folds up it's a trifold memory foam mattress so it folds up really nicely but I have boards that go across like pretty much from from here back is like all of that boards or you know across the whole thing and then just bent there so like I usually have about half the space to actually like walk around and like use like stood up my computer or this is on a an arm so I can like swivel it around. I can stand out if I want to. But and also like open the door and get a good view I'm I went to the nearby shopping like Park or parking lot. So I
can tell there is a parking lot but also you get like a quiet perfect Internet. So what's your internet situate? Yeah,
that's great. It's the Starlink from you know SpaceX is satellite internet. I initially had the home Starlink dish like dish EMIC flat face as they call it. And so it's made for the home. So you kind of had, like pickup a spot, a location to use it. And like so traveling around the road was a little interesting, and like changing that spot, but you can change it to RV mode, which makes it a lot more mobile, you know, you'd have to, like pick a location, you just put it up and, and connect it. And then what I just recently upgraded, I haven't installed it yet I, I just picked it up the like the RV, actual antenna, which is larger, it has high speed. I mean, that was two grand. And then it's $150 Bill per month. So it's like you know, I mean, like, I got to have connectivity, especially out west. So. So yeah, that's kinda
what I got there. I see. I see. And you basically like, so like this kind of, like, you're definitely like a very organized version, but like, you, you connect it to your kind of seems like something, you know, like, seems like you can definitely work remotely from there, I can tell you know, like, whatever is, you know, I work basically remotely and I, if if I have like a good internet connection, and basically you can work anywhere. And so that will be possible. I also met like, in during, especially during coffee, I met a lot of people that really got like a big shot and just like trying to, to live this way. Like how long have you been living like this? And what, what are the changes that, you know, like you noticed living this way from, you know, from the most normal thing that could be like, you know, interaction and relationship with your friends, something like that. How do you end up that part?
Yeah. So it's been so I would say, I mean, yeah, like COVID hit. I was on this team. We were doing cross corporate research for power grid, stuff. So like generation, transmission, distribution, telecom, mostly, little bit of real estate and stuff like that. And at the time, we were working on like, cool, like computer vision, LiDAR, getting into all that kind of stuff. And COVID hit, and they're like, Okay, work from home. And, you know, it's like, okay, this is a couple of months, or what's, you know, how's it gonna be? And then, like, you know, how COVID It was, like, no one knows for sure, when we're gonna come to the office, and we weren't getting any clarity. And it was like, might be another month, it was like, nope, gonna do this for less than a year. And I missed it because we actually had a really cool office, and I was like, I love going in there and, and working there. But either way, it worked out nicely, because I got a little stir crazy just being in the same house all day. And they're like, it felt like there's this new freedom and you know, you're seeing all this stuff online about other people doing it. So I'm like, Okay, I'm just gonna go out west and like, see what happens. Like, you know, I was able to keep getting work done. It was refreshing because I was like, able to get out a lot further and just like, I could be on a call and nature and like, we're still talking through stuff or if so getting everything done for a while. I did Airbnbs and I'd spend at least like a little bit over half a year outside of Ohio so I went to Colorado a lot went to Washington a decent bit down to Costa Rica a couple of times. That got crazy. So I started thinking about this with the man especially but with friends it was really interesting because like it actually I felt like helped in a lot of ways because when I was back in town, I would it would you spend extra time and go like out of my way to do some kind of new experience with my friends. We'd go check out some part of town where like, something new open that no one's seen before or go to farmers markets and art, art galleries and all that kind of stuff, but which I mean, like, yeah, anyways, but it also helped me connect with friends in other places, because I would I just make most of my plans to say like, Hey, oh, yeah, I met this girl. person who's out in Colorado or this person who's out in Washington or whatever. And like, I reconnected with like a, one of my best friends from grade school. Because he had moved around a decent bit. Like with his family and I, we just like, I don't think he was on Facebook. So I was like, how do I find him? You know, and, and I forget how I ended up. Yeah, I forgot how we like reconnected or whatever. But I was like, oh, yeah, I can, like, just come out and visit and we, we got up actually, we went to that band Film Festival. One of the days together, it was a lot of fun. But, but yeah, what so it's been really cool to like, Oh, also, while we're like, visit, you know, I'm visiting somebody, or some old friend to someplace new, we're like, going out in the nature a lot going on hikes,
I guess it pushes you to, you know, it pushes you really to, like, I feel like, anytime that your house doesn't become like, such, like a central part of your life, which I think kind of institutional we we are, like, taught that, you know, you need to grow up, get a house and, you know, I'm a family, which is, you know, don't get me wrong, these are all great things to do. But like the fact that you have like a very comfortable house sometimes is like, the main reason why you don't want to leave it. So you get very, very stationary, very sedentary on on staying there. And I and I saw that when I went because recently, as I mentioned before the call, I traveled to Japan, and you know, like Japan is one of those places where, like, you really live in a very small places, like in a very small apartments. It's kind of like, I don't want to say New York, kind of like stuff, because they're not the same. But like, you know, like Japan is like very much like, people almost I feel like whoever lives in the town, or lives in the city doesn't really care about the, this really care about staying home. Like I feel like the life is really outside and it goes on for very long hours. Compared to United States, I can say, you know, like, very, very late through the night, like people stay out so much. And it pushes us to be out, like your life is out. There's a lot of shared spaces, there is a lot of like, it's more of a we work kind of lifestyle where people just go in creative space and do those things. Or then there is you know, there is also other phases of that, of that culture, which is like a lot of corporate work and things like that, that stay long hours, but I see people being way more out. And maybe because I'm I'm not currently in LA where it's so spread around. And it's it's kind of you know, you get very lazy about moving because there is so much traffic there is not really efficient public transportation. So you kind of like you're like, oh, whatever, I'm just gonna be home tonight. You know, it's like, a conclusion that a lot of people arrived very often during the week. So yeah, that's so cool to see that you're doing that in? Do you think that this? And then after this question, maybe we paths to another topic that you have so many good ones in your in your document? But do you think you know, like, kind of brings me back a little bit to Ready Player One where there is this guy into his, you know, he's kind of like, he's only a lot. And he's kind of like, it's kind of going out from the like, you're you're you're living in a van because you want to go out. So you want to just it's not the same reason why this guy is like using VR that he wanted, like, you know, escape life. But I think you know, it would be cool to make a connection between your wage leave. And do you feel there is a connection between the way that you live and you know, something like virtual reality?
Yeah, definitely. I mean, a lot. I mean, you know, we've kind of gone through iterations with technology where it's like, a computer is a room and then it's like something you can put on your desk and then evolve to like something that you can carry in your hand. And I think it's just like the direction is just mobility, like adding mobility. You know, at first it was like, Yeah, we got to sit down and do this thing. But like, eventually, we can stop being taken away from just our interaction with the world and just have our experience more like embodied in the world. Yeah, definitely. And I feel like basically, and part of like the thing with the van, one of these groups behind me gift they are At this, like crypto Tao, like this organization, crypto group that's working to help build better community between van lifers. And so their whole thing is like freedom of mobility, or like freedom of motion in general. And then also community, like trying to build community, while still having the freedom of mobility and being able to get around and like them. And like this group cabin, I was just at one of their, their places in California. But that's like another group trying to make it almost, they call it like a decentralized city where it's just like a big area, like a almost a corridor of cabins for digital nomads to travel between. But no, I'm definitely of the solar punk nature, we're like, we need to be like walking the fields with like, like, like, there's a lot of nomadic people. I've done some, like, I tried to get into, like, international development a little bit. And, and like, one of my professors, I did a few trips to Ghana, and then one of my professors did some stuff in Tanzania that I went out there for, and he was working with this tribe that was like, Hey, we've been nomadic in Tanzania for like, ages, but people are tired of us like walking through their towns with spears. So like, I guess we gotta, like, try to do this settling thing, but I feel like, like, part of it made me sad, because I'm like, I yearn to be able to just, like, wander, you know, out in the wilderness and travel that way. And, and I feel like, that's something that AR and xr are really working towards is like, letting us you know, because phones, like took us out of our experience with the world. And, and I feel like, people have this like, picky taste about XR, because it's like, you're just getting even more out of the world once you put the headset on. But it's like, no, no, like, we're trying to understand the outside world, make the digital experience, like integrated with that so that we can just be more in the moment and more like involved in the world and everything
I'm so I'm so in line with what you said like I remember Steve steel mentioned in Tokyo, but like, this oceans of people in the metro looking at their phone, it was really, really surreal to see how many people and you know, me included because it was looking for directions. And I think everyone was doing because the battery in Tokyo is crazy. And I bet that even if you're local, you cannot figure out for so many years how that works, because it's like, endless. But yeah, like, I feel like that. Yeah, it's insane. Like, I swear, like, I was like, dang, like this direction AR application here would really like you know, like, it's all like, sometimes in the airport, I think you can figure it out, like you don't really need it, but there I think it really needs something like that. And, and so yeah, and I feel like there is a lot of opportunity because, you know, like, like you said, you talked about a little bit of nomad life, I think that there are trends in the society now, which are very clear. I mean, there are people that tends to do families way later than before, there is definitely a push back on buying, you know, properties because they are just so expensive everywhere, just like prices that are inconsiderable in, in, in, people just don't want to do it. I think they're like, You know what, like, I might invest in myself instead, and just do something that I want to do. And like maybe in your case is like, I want to just travel and I want to just create like a bomb that can go so many places and not be just sticking to one place I want to be I want to feed myself where I'm more empowered and free to do my choices. So I think that that there are definitely a lot of trends that makes me think of, you know, trying to understand space in a more try to understand technology in a more special way. And it's very fair, what you said about phones or VR and AR is like not really we're not putting your stuff on the head. It's like how can you just avoid look at the screen all day, you know, like it's because it becomes such a it becomes a reflex like a very normal. Now you're doing work and I see myself sometimes now like there are those little small little micro breaks through the day in what do you do? You know, you just take the phone out and you look at the phone. And sometimes I really impose myself or put the phone like far distance from me because I'm like no to can you be? Can you are you able to don't look at the phone for like 30 minutes, or you're gonna get crazy. Like, it's not to impose it on yourself, you know, then and I think when we were
at the when we're at the crypto cabin in California, it was like rewilding experience like web three, its web zero, meaning nature. And one of the guys in charge of it, Shawn, he was like, we're gonna do a whole day. No phones, like don't even bring your phone. No, I was like, I feel naked. Like, what's, where is it? Like, it's weird.
I know. And that's a feeling feeling me. That's exactly what I wanted to expect. Yeah, you put it in very good words, like you really feel naked. You're like, what am I doing? Now? You feel like, I think that brings you to the moment that you're like, Okay, so now I really need to understand and try to build up and see what what am I going to do? Like, I'm going to start thinking, you know, I'm not just gonna go into, like, how to pilot in my life, just looking at scrolling down, I'm just gonna think, what's my next step through the day, which is, like, you know, a small step, but it's actually a big step, because you're like, Okay, you know, I experienced that the best, you know, the best way for me to get out from phone is like, really be focused on certain tasks. For example, I love doing music sometime after work, or, you know, when there is a great challenge at work that I want to solve, and I just really put myself into that focus zone, and I don't look at anything else. Even slack, I find it very, altering my focus sometimes, like, you know, like notification because we still like this kind of social based interaction that you're like, Oh, dang, like, just I want to be, you know, I want to be focused on something for for the, for the, for the health of my brain for some hours, you know, like for just like, do one task at a time, and not just like being available for everyone at the same moment. So yeah, it's super cool. It's so I feel like this is a very, very interesting approach to you're bringing up so you talk about is this related? I don't know if you've wrote a lot of topics here. But you say the concept of intelligence artificial. It is IA instead of AI? Can you can you expand on that?
Yeah. I mean, so deck W. Engelbart. He's this guy who like back in the, whatever, 60s or 70s, I don't know, maybe 80s. Like, he did this thing. There was the demo, the mother of all demos of what that was called, apparently. But it was when, for what I remember, from what I understand, I think Xerox PARC demoed. Like, here's a mouse, like we invented a mouse. And this is how you can interact with computers. And like, I think they had a keyboard and a graphical interface or something. And it was like, this is a way to interact with this digital thing. But like, even back then people were talking about AI. And I mean, there are some Oh, crap. What is the Ada Lovelace I think, was like one of the first like computer creators, like mechanical computer graders. And like, even she was like, we're gonna we're building Thinking Machines, like, we're gonna build stuff that is going to be able to think and like to do thought processes that we haven't really, or could even like, beat us with a lot of them. But one of the things so Doug Engelbart was big on instead of AI, like, think of it as intelligent IA, intelligence, augmentation. So like, we kind of have this, this assumption that like aI itself is going to become sentient, and then become smarter than us. And like with LLM, so our large language models like, like chat TV and stuff like that, like people are kind of thinking of it as that like, this seems like it's a human, it's harder for it to pass the Turing or it's, it's harder to do a proper Turing test against it. But one way I've been looking at it a lot more recently is like, well, hold on. Like, this is just a complex, like a large language model is like this one is just a complex version of like, the thing that tries to predict what the next word you're going to type in your keypad is going to be, and like, you can have it, but like, this one's like a whole company was like, we're gonna build this out like crazy. And they're like, all right, this is trained on a whole bunch of code that's been published a whole one. Have texts and books and all kinds of stuff. So strange really well, to the point that it can kind of build their own responses and all that. But the way I look at it is like, at the end of the day, this is just the technology that's helping us better navigate and get the insights we asked for from big piles of information. And so it's like, it's still we're augmenting our own cognitive processes. And I think one of the things I like focusing on when I'm thinking of how to design, like, these memory palaces and stuff is like, how do I? How do I build this in a way that I can think more efficiently? I really liked Steve Jobs. I, I saw one of his quotes recently, that was like, Nash, he was saying how National Geographic I think, did a study of like, the efficiency of all these different animals, and it was like, kilocalories per mile or something like that. Or miles per kilocalorie. I don't know what, but it was like, all these different species, and like, humans were like, way down the list. And like, I forget what was first, but he was like, but then somebody thought to test humans on a bicycle. And they like weigh out for forums, like the best animal. And like, the whole point of it was humans are really good at building technologies that make us more efficient, makes something about our experience more efficient. And, and then his quote was like, and that's what we do at Apple. We're building bicycles for the mind. And I was like, Ooh, like, that's really good. But it's like, when I think about a bicycle, for the mind, I'm thinking like, something that allows me to think more clearly, like when Google Earth I remember when Google Earth first came out. And I was like, Well, I can like actually zoom in to this glow.
I was reading. I was reading saying, greetings.
Yeah. Like Google Earth, VR? Heck, yeah. Yeah. Very insane. And like, so that's something and that's something that's driven sir, gave him a lot to like, the 3d calendar thing, because it's like, well, it's almost like, growing up as a kid, I saw the iterations of Google Earth with them, they like kind of stopped at some point. And I was like, no, keep going, like, You're doing good. And, and so like, but, you know, I feel like it's like, just trying to like, zoom out a little bit and be like, Okay, here's the earth. And that Zoom will form on that planetary orbit. And then you're kind of like, mapping out time accordingly, too. So. But getting back to your question. What was the question?
No worries, I think you I think you went you went down the earth route? Because, you know, you know, the earth is your spirit. But yeah, and we were talking about augmentation. Yeah, I think that the point that you were doing this kind of thing, you were saying about Steve Jobs in the bicycle for the mind, which is actually mind blowing. And you were also reflecting on the LLM things that are happening now. You know, like, I feel like the reason why because everyone is so like, oh my gosh, this is going to replace you this is going to replace this and because I mean, the fact is that is based on you know, the output of this technology is communication. So you literally can talk to something, and the fact that you can talk to something it for me, it's just like, of course, it's gonna, it's gonna, it's gonna get your attention, like no matter if someone is telling you things, you know, in a way, and and that's a new man, you know, it's a very natural, in my opinion reaction to have the people are so into these things, even if you're not particularly connected with the, you know, all of those algorithms or all of the technology that runs behind this, but even if it's just text prediction, if we oversimplify it. And I also recommend, you know, like, not not promoting, but the last episode, actually, I had, like a friend of mine that is into AI a lot and is an AI engineer, and he explains a lot of these processes and how we got this. But like, yeah, it's pretty cool. And he, yeah, he has a very sober view. There's been a lot of steps, you know, like a lot of papers have been published a lot of methods, you know, from, you know, Transformers and all of those algorithms that evolved in time, and I think it's just going to It just gonna keep going. One thing that I want to mention though, is that I feel like there is no such a thing as AI putting a headset on and understanding space, in my opinion, like this is this is for me, like, understanding space, in a very two dimensional view is a task, which is very subjective. And I, I'm trying to use AI in, in my free time in the context of space, because I feel like, I've been really inspired by one of the paper from meta called semantic segment everything, like when I saw that one, I was like, dang, like, you can just recognize every single thing, you can know what it is you can label it more or less, you can just like have the right distance from your headset to that you basically figured out everything there and you just, you know, you just read space, and you can get so much out of it. Like I don't even know. But yeah, it's it's one thing is like, kind of like toggle, creating a catalog of information, where thing is like, okay, everything is like, what do you do with that information? You know, like, you need that input, which is an input that is smart. And usually, in here, I'm quoting, you know, George Hotz, in the latest podcasts or, you know, legs. I mean, he, he makes this he because he's into music, any, any, any, any was like I'm using chargebee at some time to write my lyrics, because he's like that music in his free time. But it's like, the lyrics of Chad GBT are very need are very, like, you know, are very, like soulless and very like, it's not like it's not that edge that brings you ahead of other people. It's because usually that edge is not that mainstream is not that spread, like if everyone would be a genius, there wouldn't be billionaires in the world, there wouldn't be like a diversification of social classes or things like that. Like, I feel like if everyone that has that, like, you know, if everyone is so like smart to figure it out or live in once. It doesn't make sense, like, every time that everyone has the same tool available, there is always going to be differentiation based on what's the input Oh, yeah, tool. So there is always going to be kind of capitalist in a way, way to leave. It's, you know, that there is no such a thing.
Okay, and like, if everyone has the same tools, it feels like everyone's still driving towards their own novel experience. Right? And so they're going to figure out how to go to a different direction. Yeah,
we are, we are made this way. Right. You know, like, if we just want to do the opposite thing, like so like, the nature of the so I'm always, I'm, that's why I really am super positive about all of these things, you know, zero, like, every time something comes out, I'm like, okay, so you can do that. So we can do that. Or, like I see a lot of creative uses of even within my company, I see people that are very creative in trying to you know, making prototypes of things that you're like, Oh, dang, this guy, like figured out a way that would solve it. There was like actually a very cool you know, just to quote Adam Varga which is one of you know, like, best inspiration for me for XR prototyping in a I got I got to meet him in Japan to like he elite a recently just posted on on, on Twitter, it posted this, this demo of it called the spatial Netflix. So he just had like, that AI plugin in unity. And it just gets frame by frame, and then extract the depth information from that frame, which may be our you know, you get that depth frame a frame with AI because those are frames that are taken from an animal in that case, and he just like spatialized every frame. And then he put them all together, he put them all together, that's cool. And, and then it basically becomes like a very two dimensional experience of, you know, great match the animal because animals are very moved. You know, there's a lot of motion in those in those episodes. So I think he created like a very cool prototype of something that is not really a UI that did it. It's, you know, this guy really put the tool to use and created something beautiful, and maybe that could become a reference for many other people. So you know, this is just an example but then I know that there are some a lot of in you know, jobs that are very automatic and you know, execute, but that has been like all the jobs that are too much copy and paste. It's always been in the history something that you know, no one wants to do. Or maybe just, you know, it's an existing problems in centuries. It's not in our lives. Uh, yeah. And we just get rid of it, you know, so, right. Yeah,
there was probably a moment, there was probably a moment where like, everyone was painting with rocks that had like one point. And then someone was like, I found hair. I think I like, make a brush out of it. And people were like, you're just copying, like our markers over and over, or?
I don't know. Yeah. No. I see. I see what you what you mean. Yeah. Another Another mention from George Hotz that and I was I really liked that interview, because I think he brought up so many points of views in a very, very, I recommend it, like, in a very simple way. He says like, when they invented the fridge, the guy that sell milk, you know, he is going to think that everyone is going to have fridges in their houses, so they're never going to buy milk from my place anymore. You know, something like of that kind. So it's not really like that, like, you can still there are, there is still a concept of buying things into a shop. It's just like, different. So I think this evolution is it's all too it's for me, it's an episode that we want to enjoy that we want to absorb. Do you want to see the details of every you know, every time that I go on Twitter, and I see a new paper? I'm like, Okay, what did they figure out now? Let's, you know, like, and there are all of these little pieces that come together.
Anyway. Yeah.
I, we just got very long on this one. But
well, so
yeah,
I had a thought when you mentioned Lexus podcasts, which I really like. Going to this thought of space and everything. One of one of the pod, one of the guys he had on was like an opto electronics engineer or something like that, like this, the engineering of like light, like photoreceptors and stuff like that. And this thoughts been kind of like echoing in my head for a bit where he was like, there is the Kuiper Belt is cold enough on the dark side for you to run super computers without having to do any cooling systems in like, so I don't know, I have this thought of like us one day, like powering on, like pressing the power button to like the Kuiper Belt as like a supercomputer like brain.
And what do you sorry? Sorry, maybe I don't really find familiar but do you mean hypermobile? What do you mean with that?
No, the Kuiper belt like outside, I think between Mars and Jupiter.
Oh, that's right. Okay, take a second place. I understood.
Almost like Hyperloop No, but I just thought of that because of the LEX Friedman. And all the podcasts he does. It's very
I don't know, it seems crazy to you, but why not? You know? Yeah.
But uh, yeah. I could go down a rabbit hole of blacks
podcast. Yeah. He has like is he has very interesting people bringing up every time so like, you also right here something that kind of catch my attention in maybe keeps you know, like redefining your your role of technologies, but technologies but in the context of, you know, earth and just physical environments. So you said here different approach to political spectrum, a population density is policies, I think that population density is probably one of the most you know, dominant aspects someone catch when you go to a new city. And third time I mentioned by Tokyo because it really truly stuck in my head. But so many people right yeah, like the most crowded city in the world if I'm not mistaken, and I definitely noticed but they make it work so well. I don't think that they would ever do something like this for example here in you know, if I think just think about lax, as an airport, I don't know if you ever had the LAX experience but like, you can definitely see that there is something it's out of scale. You know, like if there is I don't know if you ever been there but there is lax is like an airport that is very well known because you you just go around the street, which is like a kind of like a loop and you go through all the terminals, which which is insane, because in a city of this size, the last thing you want to do is like letting everyone goes through the same path, right? You want to diversify that, like, I don't know, urban planning basics in. Yeah. And I feel like, you know, like, in other cities that are way crowded, they figured it, they figure things out, way better. So what's your view on this political spectrum in population density based policies?
Yeah, well, and I don't know if, because I see what you're saying as far as how it applies to different populations, like I imagine Japanese population, relative or like, in that area, especially as just like, more orderly by nature than like American, like, you know, big cities, or I don't know. But in general with, like, so. And I'll, I'll bring this up here on the screenshare kind of thing. But as I've been getting more into, like web three, and like blockchain, that that whole world, this concept of trust, lessness, keeps coming up. And I was like, what, like, what is it trustless means like, there's no trust, or like, people aren't trusting each other, like, what is this, and the more I wrapped my head around it, it's basically like, you're, you're building digital technologies, where you're decreasing the amount of trust that you have to place in another person, for each interaction that you go through. And when you're, you're embedded in a city where you're interacting with millions of people, and you're in and, you know, you're a part of a world that has billions of people, like, you've got to, you can't just like lend people things. Like you would your, your brother or your family members or close friends or something. And so like, you kind of have to come up with a system. And I think that's what capitalism has done really well, like, as the start of kind of like, creating an equal value exchange so that we can not place as much trust, like, because we don't have the capacity to trust. Like, it's kind of interesting. And I have this on this little chart here. I'll kind of highlight it. But there's this thing called the Dunbar number, which is like kind of a number that got its understanding from psychology studies, where it's like, well, Psych and like neuroscience, where it's like, there's a, the, from my understanding the size of the prefrontal neocortex. So like the, the part of the brain that we especially humans have, like, figured out better than most other animals from my understanding, I think. But the idea is, across primates, it is a true fact, it's a or it's a trend, that the size of the prefrontal neocortex correlates to how many social creatures like peers, you can keep in your local village, like that you can keep track of. And so there's some point where villages get too big. And like, you, you just like, can't keep track of everyone. And it's hard to do that. And so at some point, you can't keep just like letting you know. So and So whoever asks, like to borrow the car, it's like no, like, you know, we have to figure out something here. Can't to keep track of that many people. So this term is kind of thinking about politics as not necessarily, like one's wrong, and we got to be on the other side and tell them why they're wrong. But more just like, there are a lot of systems of managing social interactions that just work at different scales. It seems like the socialistic and communism communistic kind of behaviors make sense for like closer communities, like your trust your circle, but then when you get to a certain level, it makes sense to come up with some other approach
becomes a utopic. Like yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I mean, hopefully, yeah, like, to some degree, like what's happening with this chord? Like there's still going to be those villages, this tribes that you connect to as like your small trust group kind of thing. But that's cars. See. I don't trust them.
I bet I mean, I just walk around today and I look back my shoulder like everything. I mean, it's like going right not gonna lie. But yeah, I get I get one.
And this is still this is a half baked it. I'm not like, saying this is, like, fact by any means. It's just kind of me experimenting with like, like, I have a, one of the guys I work with. He's like, his dad used to say, you see that mailbox, like at the front of the yard, like, democracy stops there. And so it's like, inside, there's a different system, you know? And which I think makes sense. Like, yeah, we've we interact with our family differently than our society and are like, larger cities and everything. But yeah, so that's kind of where I was getting with this chart. And kind of like, I wonder sometimes, like, what it makes sense, you know, you look at the, those maps that are like, here's the, like, the color of like, what counties voted what, and it's usually like, and if you get like higher density, and like higher resolution versions of that, where it's like, here's like, by the lot, the census tract or whatever, how people voted. It's usually like blue for cities, and red for rural areas. And it's kind of just like, when we are in different densities, like, we kind of have to figure out how to interact differently. Like, on one side, you have really good community, you're able to know more of your community, and a rural area. And so that that's like, so you can be closer on some levels and make it just like, more useful decisions. kind of easier, in some ways. But then a lot of other things might not scale to a ton of people. So I will point that I'm trying to get here is like, maybe we had policies that applied accordingly. Like it's like, alright, if you're inside the outer belt, like, X applies, if you're outside of it, something else. Sorry, went down a rabbit hole. Yeah, no,
no, no, it's, it's, I feel like it's a very hard, it's a very hard, these are very hard concept to talk to, and especially here, you don't want to, you really want to be careful about saying things that, you know, you regret and things like that. I know that, you know, a lot of people are very sensitive, and we want to be correct. To everyone in, in Yeah, it's hard to express this kind of, you're trying to, you know, to come up with some sort of, like solute solution for, you know, eventually, like a political system that they kind of put everyone on on the same on the same page, where it kind of accommodates the needs of everyone. It's not easy. Like, that's, you know, it's crazy. So it's, and I feel like, you know, like, bringing back this to a little bit of xr politics. Like, for example, I noticed that just too, and I and I want to go back to this, that I'm gonna go to this, like, just say, yeah, no, I feel like I feel really simple. Like, if you think about the the opening SAR standards that are being defined lately in the last few years, yeah, you know, everyone started, like, when I started to work in XR, and I started to use VR headsets, and you know, AR mobile stuff, I feel like there were a lot of different, there are still a lot of different products. But I noticed that lately, everyone is like adhering or they are kind of entering this open XR transition. For example, just lately MRT K, like, you know, MRT k three, comparison to MRT k two, that is one of most important toolkits for XR, they just went to open XR standards, which is, you know, started probably from Unity, or, you know, I saw a lot of backlash after vision Pro has been released. And there were a lot of people that will say, oh, where's the openings are bridge and stuff like that. Now, I'm not informed enough. I don't know if they have any breach with that. But I know that Apple is the system is sometimes very close. So I wonder how they're going to handle those standard transition, or if there is an external transition, but someone brought it up. So I was like, Yeah, that's a very good concern, because I hope that they do it. So we can all do the same thing on the same you know, on every headset. And I feel like that's the same for a lot of places like we very much have a hard time to come up with some standards that are just like black and white sometimes like they really there is no way that get gets personal, you know, like because otherwise there is a lot of personal things that go into the choices and and especially when it comes you know, and crypto takes this to the next level thinking about transactions. So if you show to everyone, this kind of like open you know, this open source repository of transaction there is no way that someone can you know, it Just like it's code is not law, it's code. But then even there we saw, you know, historically that there is a lot of loopholes that can be that can be can be made. And a lot of you know, a lot of false information can be diffused. I feel like that the way to titillate citizens is like the level of adoption of a platform, generally, when it gets when it gets way, way adopted, I feel like, it's way easier to have the same, you know, language of communication and the same, like, this platform that is adopted is actually Binney bidding, like, it's like not something that is bad, I feel like there is a very nice chance that we can comply to certain laws, and I feel like Worldwide, there is a little bit distinct, like, politically No, like, for example, in the history, there was a lot of war. And now, fortunately, you know, it's, it's very hard to get to that level again, because, you know, technology when also for but there are also like, some agreements in place, which are very, very hard to, you know, kind of break. But, you know, still, it's a very delicate topic, but I wonder, really, if, you know, this kind of standards could be defined on density, like you mentioned, because I feel like, that's such a, that's such a great aspect, like, because density is a number, which is the same is the same valuation across all the world, no, like, you have like density in this area density in that area. But density is the same, you know, like in us is the density in Europe, this is the same density like for square meters or for mile, like, how many people are there. So I feel like, that's actually a very interesting, it's a very interesting topic. And I feel like urban planning actually goes a lot on that edge, but mostly for pricing, you know, houses and things like that. But density is definitely like an aspect that could be, could be made as a, you know, flag for, you know, kind of an anthem for a lot of different roles that you could do. Because you might claim that the more people are in this area, and, you know, the more problems are going to be, you know, brought out, but there is also this cultural aspect that I will say, like, steel, like, I was shocked when you were in the metro in Tokyo, and like, there were so many people and the science that I hear in the metro was incredible. Versus the Metro experience. And, you know, don't get me wrong, I love LA, like, I lived here for like nine years and stuff, but like, oh, yeah, you go into Metro in LA. And it's like, you know, it's dangerous. So, like, with all the respect, like, I took, I use this sometimes, you know, like, usually I wanted to use public transportation, but there is very much a different level of, of force pool institution that or how you can, I don't even know, like, it's hard to find. I feel like culturally things caught density is affected by culture. That's probably what I want to say. Oh, totally. And, and if there is any formula that puts that stuff together, I think there could be it's hard to generate, it's hard to quantify culture. Yeah. It's hard to quantify aspects of guidelines, rules and just aspects of life, you know?
Yeah. Yeah. And I get, I guess, one of the things like, as I kind of explore this, you know, like the density based politics and kind of, like, maybe some of the politics I'm getting into I, I think of it more of just like, finding ways to keep experimenting, politically, and like trying out new things that we, we, you know, may not have tried before. I mean, kind of how I try to apply it in my career is like, like an engineering side especially is like, when I think about experimenting with the power grids in the US, it's kind of hard to like, we have so much regulation. And also like most of like, the most of America, where there is population, there's already power infrastructure. So it's like, it's not like there's a whole bunch of opportunity to just try things completely new and so like, I think it's kind of interesting to think about how bringing technologies to devolve or developing parts of the world, you can just leave Prof. Lee so they can leapfrog technologies altogether, like, a lot of Africa just entirely skipped landlines. And it was like, hey, so we can have cellular we can have connectivity. And so, yeah, I mean thinking about, it's interesting working with some of these kind of tribes, and like smaller village communities that are trying to do micro grids, and thinking about how do we do that? Like, they have the option of connecting to the national grid, or kind of remaining independent and having some level of control over the technologies that they adopt the to suit adopt. But yeah, I guess that's where my mind goes, when I think about like, population density, like, how we can re you know, some of that goes into, like, how do we use crypto to manage like a little tribal government to, to give them the agency to have like, a digitally secure voting system or something like that? That's not dependent on like, who's the national guy who's the, like, you know, like, they're all you're always gonna have, like,
I feel, I feel like, like, yeah, I, I feel like, there is something that I think crypto, like everyone think of is like, any sort of system that I kind of, like, do always this sort of like, alignment or comparison to how, you know, in a lot of corporates, you have a lot of code base, and you just organize it to repositories, you have like 1000s of changes per days, you have 1000 of like big requests, and, you know, there is every time that you do a request, there is going to be those people that are going to permit permit you to do it, and people are going to block you. And, you know, I feel like, even there, if there is enough participation worldwide in this kind of open source government, that that, theoretically, theoretically, would maybe create something that is at least a little bit more dynamic. I'm not sure how fair because the, the truth is that, you know, there is always going to be the rich guy that is going to afford to, you know, say I'm going to do if you do 10 changes per day, I'm going to do probably 50 changes per day. And because I have more, more workforce, and so my, my weight in this, in this big association is going to be larger than yours, like, I think we are going to always go back to a place where whoever has more power is just going to have more influence. But I wonder if you know, like, that can be, at least can be more dynamic in have and give more chance to people because now like you said, like law laws are very slow, like, before they change it, or before they changed some things like it takes quite a long time. In instead, like, you know, like if you have like very, you know, like a technical problem in sometimes there are those cases where, for example, I remember Italy some years ago, they they Italy change the government, like every two years. So they're always like, they're never, they're never steady. But I remember the for some, some time they, they just call this guy that came up as a technical government. So it wasn't really like the person that people want it. It was the person that they just assigned to the role because economically, the country needed to reach a certain standard in this guy delivered on that. And so I wonder if that could be you know, like, more of like talking numbers sometimes instead of or maybe like up voting or slow voting things. But even there, it becomes very hard because you notice how media drop bombs daily, and how all of these kind of like articles and all of these news are always brought up. Because probably there is something that you know, if a post gets like 80,000 likes is gonna be more diffused than the one that has like 40,000. So whoever manage to give to that post of that information, the double of the votes, like he's still have more influence. So I feel like until we have like a system And when it's based on voting, or on liking, which is social media and things like that, it's gonna be very hard to, to not have like a partial decision or to have like a technical decision. But truth is that I cannot, it's very hard to think of a different way to do that, you know, like, yeah, yeah, it's very difficult to think about, like an alternative way to do just like, change those numbers, or maybe you could remove a lot of those and maybe see things on in the background, like valuate more, but then they would accuse you that you're not transparent. Or maybe you're fully transparent, and you just like, publish way more than you do. Because for example, if you notice, a lot of this might be partially related to what you say, but like, I saw a post on Twitter today from a game developer. And this girl was saying, I, I kind of just got into the publish the publishing process of my game now. And after a lot of work and stuff, like I started to get into the all of the dynamics needed for publishing a game. And when you publish a product, you'll know like, you know, that you need to have, you need to be on the store, you need to have a certain reviews, you need to have like people talking about your game. And you have all of these kinds of media press that you need to you need to have just to be considered in the in the in the discourse, just to have a chance. And she was saying she was saying publicly, she just like, bro, like, I didn't know that you could buy followers, and you could buy likes, and you could buy basically all of that, right? And so and that apply to it, believe me, that applies to all the platforms. So I was like, Okay, so we're back to back to the start, like the followers on Instagram, it's just a different way to see money. In a way, it's just a different way to see budget. And it just like a different exchange value, which is valuable only for that law firm. So there is no difference to me between something like that sometimes in crypto because crypto tried to create a new coin, which is valuable in its community. In the moment you have debt, I feel like that is what unavoidably creates a difference, you know, because there is a budget versus analogy. So how to how to different how to defeat that. It just like being just very, you know, it's just, I think that the only thing that can defeat that it just is finding a way just to have it very straightforward and transparent. So there is no way to get like, you know, who is doing what, yeah. And there is a full, full transparency, which make you understand all of the games that are going in the background. And I don't want to mention this, but they have like that there is all of like, I was watching these other podcasts the other day, like all in podcasts, and they were mentioning the same issue for school applications. And still the same, you know, because they just passed this kind of new new thing about diversity for Harvard in enrollment, and they're still the same game. Yeah, it's still about numbers. And, you know, there were those numbers that Yeah, it's hard. It's hard.
Well, so And one thing I think about this, we're going to loop back to the intelligence augmentation thing a little bit. There's this quote, I really liked, actually, from a Japanese descent person, I don't know if he was, I think it was born in Hawaii. But Ellison Onizuka I think, I mean, I know this because it's in the US passport. So like, whenever I'm traveling, I read this, and I'm like, oh, yeah, I love that. But he said something along the lines of like, every generation has the obligation to free men's minds, and to look to be able to look out upon the world from a higher plateau. And I, I really liked that, especially visually, because, I mean, he was up in the space station. He actually died coming back in I think, on the Challenger reentry. But I like, which part of me I'm like, I wonder what thoughts are going through his head when he was out in space and saw the Earth from above and he didn't really get to talk about that because he didn't get you know, if it doesn't come back. But, uh, I mean, I think like that makes me think about visually, especially in that that Overview Effect, which is a bunch of astronauts kind of came up with this term to describe that, that cognitive shift that happens when you're up there. But, so I were like, what how they describe it is like, they're looking down at the Earth, and they're able to see everything from above, they go around the Earth, like 15 or so times a day. So they're, they're seeing the whole thing, and they're getting a full resolution view of it, you know, naked eye, just looking at the whole thing. And I like the idea of applying that to all this other data about like the social ecosystems, so that like the individual can kind of like, have the understanding that's like, at the level of what a company understands about a lot of this, like, how companies look at people, but it's like, no, let's build that for the individual help them look at this. And, like, I mean, what's that?
Yeah, like, almost like, for me, what you're trying to explain, and I just want to interrupt you, for one second is like, kind of like democratizing a certain kind of education, I would say. Yeah, like foundation of education. And I'm not saying school, I'm saying, how economy works in this place now, in what is happening, and everyone has access access to that. Like, even if it's not like private information, of course, but there is like a general understanding which is in front of your face, easily. And, right. It's not like that right now. Right? Like, you need to know, right? Education starting goods hidden. Yeah. So yeah.
Yeah. And I like that, like foundation. First Principles like that, that whole field a lot. Like, the idea what I'm trying to do with the calendar is like, we've kind of got all these like screens too much. Like we, you know, we first had tablets that we could write timelines on or something and that moved to like books. And then we got like, all these flat 2d, like, templates for marking time. But it's really hard to like, zoom in and out of like, your calendar from like, I want to look at several years to like, I want to look at, like today. It's not one template that's just scalable. It's usually like, Okay, well, here's your daily view, here's your weeks, here's like, a bunch of weeks in a row. And it's like, just trying to go back to like, the first principles of like, how does the Earth? Like, how does how do these planetary bodies move that govern? Like the basics of how we organize life? On Earth? But yeah, I mean, what you're saying to like, just going back to fundamentals. With so many things, I agree. Yeah, we need to do a better job of that. And education.
Yeah. And I feel like, if there is, like, if we are ever tried to get a conclusion from this discussion, which I think you know, it's relatively impossible, but I really enjoyed it. So just thinking 3d. Yeah, yeah. I think this is really thinking in 3d. And, you know, everyone should watch your YouTube channel that is called Thinking in 3d. Is that right? Hey, thanks.
It's like the mini series is that I haven't actually done my like handle as thinking in 3d, but I might be able to.
Okay. I think I really thought I assumed that that was the name because it sounds you know, sounds like a YouTube channel. I would, I would definitely use
subscribed. I call. I call it like the thinking in 3d series.
Oh, okay. Take
it what I mean? Yeah.
So it's a serious Well, guys, you're gonna have a lot of the context that you need to do it to watch it. But going back, like I feel like if there is something that might make a change, which is very impactful is for me, allowing people to move more easily. So they get to see what is different from what they have. And they don't even focus on what they have because they know that there is something else over always every time like I feel like that. You know we always thought I when I was a kid I remember ahead like friends of mine that after they were like 15, or 17, they got like this, this parents that would travel so often. And they, I could feel that they had like a total different understanding of life from what I had, because I was I never really traveled a lot until I started really to work myself. And and I felt like really the difference of like, just the way people see things around when they have so many different experiences, they just get, they don't even get mad about certain things, because they've seen it already. So they're not, they're kind of more relaxed on, on how the way they're thinking, I don't know how to describe this feeling. But I feel like if you, you know, you told me before going back to the rural zone, and all the improvement mobility, and the point that people can see everything, anytime, with a relatively small expanse. Yeah, you know, it's all just think about it, just think about how people would change their view, you know, because they're not, they're not getting ready on the fact that they're like, oh, my gosh, this is my piece of land. No, you can just go anywhere, anytime. And it's going to be easy for you. And your curiosity is first, you know, your curiosity comes before then your ego to be like, saying, Hey, look at look at what I have looking at where I am versus actually, I can do also that I can do this, I can do that. Like, it's like, it's like, I think it's too it's too different way to satisfy the human, you know, the human essence, like one insight to me, like, oh, I own that. And another one is like, look what I can do, or look like, you know, like, I feel like, oh, yeah, it's like, it's like, two different things that, in my opinion, could be put eventually in the same level. And it would be it would change a lot of things, especially, you know, Dow after COVID would happen working remotely, what you're doing, you know, kind of enrich you at a point that you get very much like, thoughtful of things in in crime would be reduced drastically. My thing? If this is if this, if this would be totally, you know, yeah, yeah,
I like thinking about it. Like, I like mirrored into a circulatory system, where it's like, if you if you're like, leaning wrong on your leg, or your arm or something, and like, circulation, just because cuts off, like, you start feeling it, your nerves are like, hey, something's happening here. And like, your, that lamb will just stop functioning like, well, period. And so I feel like, people having the freedom to like cross borders and stuff like that. Like, when they don't have that. It's like, we're this organism as an Earth. And we're like, hey, my legs asleep, like, what the heck? Like, why can't we just get the blood flowing and get, like the ideas flowing? I think we're, we're slowly getting better at that. But yeah, I mean, you like, to your point, like, I think there's a lot more need to get out there get be able to just go around everywhere. And, and see, you know, like, I think it's important, especially to dispel a lot of myths about the world by just going out and seeing it. And like, you know, I feel like I've met I've been really fortunate to meet a lot of different go a lot of places and meet a lot of people and kind of be like, oh, like I thought was just like a preconception I had in my head or something. And like people are your are super chill and a lot of fun and know how to have fun. And like, you know,
I liked that. I liked a good. Yeah. I didn't mean really, really, I really really liked this concept that we arrived to. Yeah, yeah.
Cool. This was a this is really cool conversation. And I feel like I mean, from meeting and the whole, like hackathon, stuff like that was a place where it was like, I go back to that every year because it's like, I know, I get to meet people from all around the world that are coming here. Oh,
I loved I love the hackathon. I hope to make it also this year, too. I think if I have I will try my best to make it in any capacity because you're saying and you know, casually, you're traveling, you meet people there. Those are the best experiences not everyone goes there to a place How to meet new people. You know what to expect everyone is traveling. So everyone has like a good vibe and a good mood. And I don't know, even here if anyone is listening their materiality, Agatha in Boston, we are not like promoters, but we've been, you know, hardcore attendants for years. And it's, it's been one of the most fulfilling experiences. So yeah, please go ahead. Oh, you also have the t shirt. So definitely, you know.
