Let's all go to the lobby. Let's all go to the lobby
Hello, and welcome to movies versus capitalism and anti capitalist movie Podcast. I'm Rifka Rivera.
And I am Frank Capello. Rivkah. Can gradu Lakeisha. She did. I alone. You alone ended the strike. Yes. For anyone who doesn't know the actors, the sag AFTRA union, the Screen Actors Guild has reached a tentative agreement with the MPTP. The strike officially ended this past Thursday, November 9, after the union approved an agreement with a unanimous vote from the negotiating committee on Wednesday, November 8, after 118 days of striking, so, I mean, truly, I was kind of, you know, playing it for laugh up top. But truly, congratulations. I'm so excited that the actor's got a deal. How are you feeling? You
know, I'm hyped. But I I'm finding, you know, I think in the face of what's happening in Gaza, it was it was just like, I'll be real. My it was hard to be I'm having I'm having trouble holding the joy out. I'm just having trouble holding multiple shots. So I just felt a little, like, I, I feel in my head about it. Like, I'm excited. It's great. I'm really happy. But it was, that's my honest truth. I'm excited, but I'm happy.
Thank you for being honest with me. I mean, that's i i value that from you. And that like, I know that I'm not I'm never gonna get a sugar coated, or you know, like a bullshitty answer. And in fact, you call me out on stuff regularly. And I love it so much stuff. I mean, not like Not, not like harshly but like, no, but it's one of my favorite things about doing this podcast with you is that like, yeah, there are times where I say things and you're like, oh, let's reexamine that. You're like, oh, and I'm like, oh, fuck, you're right. That's let's let me let me back up. Let me let me take it again. Don't know. So I appreciate that honesty.
Thank you, Frank, of course. Alright, so
we're recording this on Friday, November 10. And the the the actual agreement itself, the deal points and the details have not been released. I believe they're supposed to be released sometime this afternoon. So apologies that will already be public by the time you hear this. But what we do know about the agreement sag has touted the contract as, quote valued at over $1 billion, meaning billion dollars going to the actors. The deal includes minimum pay increases and, quote, unprecedented provisions for consent and compensation related to the use of artificial intelligence by the studios. So that's the AI stuff. Again, we don't know what the details of these AR AI predictions are yet. A couple of the things that are included in this deal actors who appear on the most watched streaming shows will also receive bonuses, they also raise the pension and health caps, and that will according to sag channel, more value into sags, operating funds, and they also won critical protections for diverse communities. But one thing that we know is not in this deal is despite sags, various games, it was unable to secure a cut of streaming revenues for its members, which had been a priority for the Union. Initially sag had proposed that studios share 2% of revenue from streaming before dropping it down to 1%. And then dropping it down again to 57 cents per subscriber. So this is so so streaming revenue splits did not get secure. But it looks like streaming bonuses are included for shows that perform very, very well. And again, we will learn more about the specifics of the deal in the next week or so. And I'm sure on next week's episode, we'll get to dig into more of those specifics. But I mean, other than the you know, the not getting the rev split from streamers, it seems like this is it's being touted as this is a very good deal. Yes,
this is being taught, you know, I wish it would we get everything but yeah, this is the world we live in. It is very, it's amazing. It's amazing. I think the biggest win is just what it did for people to see union power like this. When is going to reverberate anyone is going to reverberate for all unions all around. I've heard a few people kind of say things like oh, well now, there's gonna be less productions because they're going to make less stuff. I don't care. I mean, really, when you're working for so little and you had the existential crisis of AI on the table. What are we talking about?
What are we talking about? And we also went into detail about this on last week's episode on An hour episode for sorry to bother you about how, yes, all of these networks, studios are slashing their production budgets, that is partially due to what will now be rising labor costs from the writers and actors, you know, securing living fucking wages. But it's also because these companies have just been running on debt for like a decade. And now, now that the economy is squeezed, these companies actually have to, you know, be businesses that make money. So it's not solely because labor has won here, and should also be said that steel still needs to be ratified by the rank and file sag members. So I'm curious to see, once we actually get the details of the deal, if there will be, you know, a coalition within sags, rank and file that's like, No, we don't we don't want this. You know, I know that there was a small coalition within the Writers Guild, even when that tentative agreement was reached that were like, no, no, no, no, go back for more. So we'll be curious to see what the response from the rank and file is. Because as you were saying, you know, everyone is more militant, now everyone is more willing to go back on on the picket line, if it means they're going to win the things that they actually deserve. So
we'll see how and another thing, I think that was beautiful that came out of this moment was just the level of pride that actors could factors felt and the conversation around of this creative work is labor. And it's really kind of, I feel like it was a cultural moment and changed how maybe the work of an actor was viewed, there were so many important conversations that were had, because of the strike. And the value that actors have in culture and the value of art and culture, I wouldn't, I would say, it's, it's one of the most valuable things that we have. And it certainly proved, like without our labor, we could shut a whole whole bunch of the economy down. And I think that was really, really crucial. Alright,
so we will, I'm sure touch on this again next week, once we actually know more about this deal. So we should get to our conversation today a very fun conversation about the film clueless. But before we do, we want to let you know that this podcast is brought to you by the lever. If you don't know what that is, it is a reader supported investigative news outlet, and you get 11 news.com. To find all of their original reporting,
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we're gonna take a break but we will be right back with Karen de concetto talking about clueless.
All right, today we are joined by Karen de concetto, which is the proper Italian pronunciation we just discussed. Karen started her career as a performer and was half of the UK pop duo Daphne and Celeste. They had three top 20 singles and their song ugly was on the Bring It On soundtrack oh my god, Karen. I'm learning all of this just now. Although they disbanded in 2000. In March of 2015, they returned to the music scene with their catchy single you and I alone and made the Guardians best tracks in 2015 list. As a writer in 2007, Karen co wrote and CO starred in the political satire I Dig Dug at the New York Fringe Festival which one best play and went on for an Off Broadway extension. In addition to writing on ABC families, Ruby on the rockets and Nickelodeon is the troupe, Karen co created the series Recovery Road and served as the executive producer and showrunner. She was also the executive producer and showrunner of scam Austin, on Facebook watch. Wow, Karen. It's very impressive, because I'm learning all of this right now, as we're speaking Welcome to movies versus capitalism.
Oh, we guys so funny. I haven't read that bio in a very long time. And I don't actually even know when that bio was from so hearing that was it was funny, and I really I really went through it. It was a very light before your eyes. It was very detailed. I don't know if it. It didn't necessarily need to be as detailed but thank you,
but we're gonna dig into more detail right now. I'll Karen because obviously we're all friends. We know you but like, I think both Frank and I don't know as much about your Popstar career, which we're not saying this flippantly. This is very real. You were part of this pop duo, you were living my childhood dream. So I want to hear for the sake of like, the film we're about to discuss, paint the picture a little bit because this was you were like part of the 90s pop star thing.
Yeah, it was. I wasn't a manufacturer pop band auditioned in New York to be part of this pop duo. And when I got in, there was just you know, they had a deal in the UK. So they flew us to London. And then we were, you know, in London for a couple of years in this pop band. And it was this crazy. It was such a fun, crazy time to be in the pop world. This is pre Napster. So like, that, in and of itself should paint the picture. You know, it was a time it was like right before everything completely changed in the music industry. You know, so, you know, no one really cared like in terms of like money, like everything was a tax write off and like, like everyone was making so much money. So when they first asked us where we want to live, I had seen the movie Notting Hill. And I was like, Oh, should we live in Notting Hill? So we lived in loosely and how amazing like, flat I was 17 when I auditioned for it, when I was 18. When I went over there, and Celeste, my bandmate she was younger. So we had a, you know, there was a guardian. And we met at the audition. And then suddenly, we were you know, living together and you know, working together and creative
collaborators. So wild,
I'll send you a video, our big claim to fame is that we were the first and only pop band to ever play the running rock festival. I can't believe it's not in my bio. But um, so I'll send you I'll send you the video. But we played with like, we're on the main stage with Rage Against the Machine and blink 182 And a lot of really unhappy people who came to our performance. So it's worth a while.
Can I ask how you made the transition from pop stardom to play? Right and television writer, though,
so I had to so I was a kid actor. So it all started with like being, you know, just a kid performers. I was a kid actor. And I auditioned to be in the pop band. I you know, I think when I was younger, I probably felt that I like wanted, like, had Broadway aspirations or something. And then I was in this pop band. And then when I came back, I, you know, returned to I returned to, you know, just acting and auditioning. I had always wanted to write, but it was always on my list of things that I wanted to do, you know, career wise. And it wasn't, you know, it wasn't until I wrote this play with my friend. That was this political satire. Um, it wasn't until then that I that I really, that it became a, that it became a career thing. And, you know, I was obsessed with this was in, in the started in 2004. I, I guess, you know, I don't know if you can relate to this. But like, when I was younger, if I made a certain amount of money, I would just like, take a break sometime. And I wouldn't have like a survival job. I would just, you know, if I made like, $5,000 I was like, Ooh, I'm good. Like, yeah,
I did that once. Yeah, I Yeah. I
just had to come off of some, some job where I'd made like, I'd made money. And so I wasn't, so I didn't have to survival jobs. I was home all the time. Watching C span. I loved C span, I was really into the 2004 presidential election. So I love C span, because it was so boring. And you could like see all of the presidential hopefuls like, you know, like clam bakes, and just like at a diner, just talking to people, you know, so it was really, so I got real, I did a real deep dive into it. I loved Howard Dean loved him. And, yeah, classic. So one day, one day, a friend of ours came over. And she was like, you know, can we turn on him TV? And I was like, Yeah, I was like, You know what, like, I don't I haven't seen a video so long. Like all I watch a C span. And my friend who I wrote the play with was like, we need to write a monologue about that. So that's where that launched the play for us, like the beginnings of the kernel of an idea. And then from that, uh, you know, from there, we were really lucky. We got in, we got representation based off the play, and then, you know, our agent at the time, who's now my manager, he said, you know, have you ever thought about right, like working in television? And we're like, well, we would love Torreon television because, you know, we were, we were kids, you know, as a kid, I would come home and I would watch hours and hours and hours of television. There was no such thing as like, you know, limiting screen time. And in my world, and, you know, Michelle and myself both were like, we just, we love TV and so, so we kind of just, you know, kind of got into it. And we wrote spec scripts and and we started, you know, just sort of reading all these books on like, you know, television structure. And, you know, that was the beginning of our career in TV. And, you know, that's what I've been doing ever since.
So long story short, you're just successful at every creative pursuit. Ah, hyper talented is the explanation. I know
about all that. But um, but you know, I do think that leads creativity. If you're creative in one area, chances are you're creative in another area as well. Yeah, great. Yeah. So,
okay, well, you chose quite the film for us to watch. We're talking about clueless, which I couldn't be it's perfect for you. And you're again, in this pop star group, you're sort of like centered in to me when I think about like that. 90s aesthetic and also your show. Do you pronounce it scum or scam scum? Right.
It's scum. Scum.
I love scum. It's on Facebook watch and both you and our mutual best friend Jessie, who is also on the podcast. Barbie episode wrote on that show and it's such a great look on the at the world of teenagers. And so it makes a lot of sense that we're talking about clueless, so let's jump into it. 9095 Clueless comes out it's written and directed by Amy Heckerling, it stars Alicia Silverstone, Stacey Dash, Brittany Murphy, and Paul Rudd, and more.
But those are leads let's not forget, Dan had a
budget of 12 million worldwide box office was about 56 point 6 million might be more by now. And if you haven't seen clueless in a while, let's refresh your memory. It's based loosely on Jane Austen's Emma. It's a teen comedy set in Beverly Hills. It follows the rich and socially successful Cher Horowitz as she navigates teenage life's challenges. Share sees herself as a matchmaker and initially coax his two teachers into dating each other in order to get her grades up. Alongside her friend Dion. She gives a makeover to new student Thai, inadvertently boosting her popularity as she grapples with friendships, crushes and her relationship with her stepbrother, Josh. She realizes her own need for personal growth beyond mere appearances.
So a little bit of historical context for when this film came out, as we've mentioned, it is 1995 Bill Clinton is in his third year as the 42nd President of the United States, Dunkaroos and Lunchables are trending foods and Starbucks has just introduced the frappuccino. In January the OJ Simpson murder trial begins in Los Angeles, and in August, there is the second largest corporate takeover ever when Walt Disney agrees to purchase ABC cap cities for $19 billion. Forrest Gump wins the Oscar for Best Picture and ER is the most popular TV show and Sheryl Crow wins a Grammy for Best New Artist Time Magazine's Person of the Year is Newt Gingrich. That's such a bummer. Also, Crayola introduces scented crayons, and only 14% of Americans use the World Wide Web. There is no Google Netscape Navigator is the most popular web browser and in July amazon.com, opens for business. Wow, big year, big year.
So many so many things that defined I feel like my childhood including this film,
yeah. And I really looked up to Newt Gingrich at that time to totally knew that
was the person of the year I'm just I'm kind of reeling from that. Look, I
was seven years old. I saw that guy on C span. And I was like, that is the coolest dude I've ever seen. I went I went as nude for Halloween that year.
So Karen, we always like to start by asking our guests Why did you pick this movie for us to watch in this context?
Well, firstly, I was looking for something that was going to be fun. That was going to be light. And you know, when I was I mean, I remember going to see clueless, I'm older than you. So I was 14, I think when the movie came out, I was between eighth and ninth grade. And I went to see it like three times in the movie theater. I loved it. And so I think it was also just like thinking the year about a movie that I loved. And then also thinking about this podcast and what the movie, you know, capitalism, yes, but also, like, the consumerism in that movie is like, you know, next level and I'm curious to watch it from this perspective and have a conversation about it, because you know, when I first saw the movie, like, I don't think I even realized like how, how much it is It impacted my fashion. But as I started, like really thinking about it over the past couple of days, I that year after like that, like six month period after it's all clueless, I was the only time in my life that I've like circled things in magazines and said to my mom, like, I want this Calvin Klein chain, like it was a chain bell. And I was like, I want this belt. I don't care. Like if it's only Christmas present, I get this is one of them. And I don't think I quite connected that like clueless and come out like, three months before I suddenly I was obsessed with like a Calvin Klein chain, you know, chain link belt,
I totally relate. I feel like I had memories. And I feel like it's the first time I also was like the Delia's magazine, you know, like circling things. But yes, but what I remember more than anything is like the desperation underneath it, which came from this because yeah, I also I saw this in theaters. Many times I loved this movie. I remember seeing it during it was a time where we would go actually the theater still up here Cobble Hill cinemas, but they put plastic bags on it on that, because they were like, it was the lice epidemic of the 90s. I mean, I'm sure there's two lights, but it was like big lights up like lights falling on people's desks, oh my god, like, I feel like, Oh my god. So they were like, do you have to, that's a core memory of putting the wrapping the thing with plastic. So I loved it. But what I was, like ate everything that I digested about the hierarchy and the class system. That was the urgency underneath the need for these clothes, because I think the main message that I walked away from it with was, if you want to survive, if you want to be at the top of the food chain in any context of schooling, you need to look a certain way and acquire these clothes. And I mean, super early on, shaped a lot of how I felt I needed to navigate to stay safe in a really toxic way, even though I still love it and hold it so so to my heart.
Karen can I ask real fast where you grew up. So
I grew up in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, for Bethlehem Steel. And then I moved to the city when I came back and forth like to the city like to audition as a kid. And my uncle lived here. And so I always really just wanted to live in New York. And when I was 16, my brother was in a Broadway show and my mom got an apartment in the city. And so I started school here. So I went to high school for my last couple years here. So
so so we're all experiencing this from like an East Coast perspective, because this is a very, very California, Los Angeles. Oh
my gosh, oh, that's the other thing about clueless is that I guys, when I moved to when I moved to LA, basically everything I knew about LA was from clueless. So like, when I first moved there, I was like, Oh, I don't want to go to the valley
the driving I was like terrified of driving because of that. Oh,
Dion on the highway is documentary footage of me learning to drive. And Frank can attest to that. I
did Absolutely. Yep. karaf a terrifying period for all drivers in Los Angeles was ripped his first year in LA. Oh my god, same everywhere in LA is 20 minutes apart. You know, like, I'll remember that forever from this movie.
So that's a very, you know, you're right, though. Frank. It's interesting, because we, I had never, I'd never been to California when I saw when I saw the movie. So it definitely was like a very different kind of, like, alternate reality in a lot of ways, you know, everything about the movie and everything about their experience. And I think now, I something that I was kind of surprised by, in a good way is that it held up in terms of like, the, in terms of the writing and the characters and the story, like it all held up really, really well. And it wasn't, you know, I think there are a lot of movies from that period, especially teen movies that have a lot of cringe moments like where it's like, like characters say things that are you know, that certainly no character would utter now, and I didn't feel like it was to you know, I don't feel like anybody says friend of Dorothy anymore, but like, I feel like it wasn't like to wasn't offensive in the way that some movies from that era can be. No,
no, no, it's not like when like watching American Pie now and you're like, oh, that's sexual assault. Like that is a whole lot you know, like that's full on sexual assault that's played for laughs and for like, Is it funny and sexy? This is yeah, this this this doesn't have a lot of that going on in it.
It doesn't which was which was great. Like, I think especially for like my My wanting to believe that I've always had the taste, you know, I think it was reassuring in that sense. But I think also it's interesting now, you know, talking about, you know, talking about privilege, the way that we talked about privilege now versus then I think it's really, it's really interesting and you know, sort of this character who, like her very, you know, everything about her life is privilege. And she thinks that her opinion matters, and she thinks that she has all the answers and the she thinks she knows how to fix everything. Because of that privilege and entitlement. It's
really impressive how like, the shares privilege are like most of these characters in this high schools privilege kind of like manifests in every, like detail of how they live their lives, like like, the way the chair drives is so reckless and dangerous. And but you're like, oh, that tracks because this is a person who like literally is like, there are no consequences there like there never will be so like, why do I need to learn how to drive with the one of the inciting incidents of the movie is her getting a C and debate class and just are getting like poor grades and a bunch of her classes and understanding that, like, she's not going to have to work to get her grades better. She just has to like, go and use her privilege and her arguing skills to just get better grades just like totally, totally, like skipping over any sense of like, meritocracy. Yeah, that's really incredible.
I was just gonna say that so brilliant. That part because we also see that her father totally celebrates this. And therefore we kind of fall into celebrating it a little bit, which we can get into what that does psychologically to the audience. But we see the system in the structure that it's like, this is the world of capitalism, this is this world of elitism, it doesn't matter education doesn't matter what matters is you'll be applauded for figuring out how to do the least amount of labor and reap the most reward and that is the system and that is how she has been raised and that's what she sees in her father and you know, I think it is to credit the writing that we also see her father is not doesn't seem to be a happy man like it doesn't lead towards a happy place. He's very stressed and screaming time time gives a big cell phone doesn't have love Yeah, so high cholesterol
he's stressing himself out way too much.
No love he can't even eat a burger like me has to work late hours you know? Yeah, you're
right Rifka when she comes back with the better grades he says, she says like Are you happy? He's like I would I wouldn't be any prouder than if you would earn the grades yourself in the first place. So satisfying. I'm I'm so glad I get to talk to you too about this because like, it sounds like both of you had a similar experience where like subconsciously, this movie kind of like ginned up your your consumerism and your your, your subconscious need to I don't know, like play within the high school social hierarchy based on all of these like materialistic goods. Because as a guy, like, I mean, I remember seeing this in high school and being like, oh, you know, like, funny, like, funny movie, but like that that part of it never hit me where I was like, oh, man, I need to go shopping now. And I find that really interesting because the note I wrote down, which I was like, this is this is like my, my big brain take is that this movie is The Wolf of Wall Street for rich teenagers. Meaning meaning that it is like satirizing and lampooning, like this lifestyle. Like clearly me Heckerling has her opinions about the privilege of all of these kids. But in the way that the film is portrayed, it could be viewed as like a glorification. Similarly, like how in The Wolf of Wall Street, Scorsese is being like, these guys are the fucking worst people on planet Earth. But there are still so many men who come out of that movie. And they're like, I guess I'm getting into finance now. Like, that was the coolest shit I've ever seen.
Well, also, when you see a movie, too, you know, and I think that, you know, when we were young, we were at this impressionable point in our lives. And you and we didn't even necessarily I didn't realize this until I rewatched. it this week, I didn't realize the way that it had impacted me. I also didn't think about the other part that the thing that I don't that I think does not hold up as well, is the diet stuff. Oh, yeah. Because there's a lot more in there than and again, I was like, oh, like, how do we internalize this when we're young, versus when you're older. And you know, you internalize in a different kind of way. We have different kinds of language. Now, you know, back then nobody was everybody was on a diet and
my bends. They don't feel nothing like steel. I love that.
That was really, I mean, one of my favorite lines of All Time, time is the virgin who can't drive. So that was way harsh time like, I mean, that was our catchphrase, like in high school, though. Was it I mean, I feel like still as an adult like I so that was way hard.
And on this rewatch like Alicia Silverstone is delivery of that line. She's like so good. Like she's like, she's like what she's like welling up in tears. I was like, she's so good in this movie.
She's so good. I was just gonna say think you're really onto something, Frank. And I have the same feeling that this is clearly really brilliant satire. And yet, because maybe it's the direction the way it's painted in the world. It's just so it's so lovely. It's so charming. You can tell and I've heard an interview that Amy Heckerling loved share, like that share was the characters. I mean, that turned into a TV show, because she could write share forever and shares such a wonderful character for me, as I was rewatching I felt like share serves as this metaphor for the US charity model. Essentially, the the charity model being, you know, affluent elites in government who set terms of aid and relief and social services. And that charity model in our country is rooted in this moral hierarchy, right that wealthy people in the elite are seen as superior and virtuous and you know, poor people need them we wouldn't wouldn't know any other way. And so they need the wealthy elite to give them a makeover, if you will. And so share, personifies this mindset, especially in her relationship with Thai so when tie enters right ties her project she's this new girl entering into this elitist, you know, where we've already seen the different class hierarchies. She has a vaguely Brooklyn accent, which is supposed to which is very similar to how Amy Heckerling speaks herself. So it's like she, to me sounds the most like the writer, but it's so funny that it's like her and the and the, the white robber archetype who holds share up in the Valley have the same accent. So there's just like this hints that you're like, poor class have the working class Brooklynite. But of course, Brittany Murphy is brilliant. She literally says to tie when she meets her, she tells Josh, when she when ties in the other room and has she's taken on her as her project. I'm rescuing her from Teenage Hell, I'm going to take that last soul in there and make her well dressed and popular, her life will be better because of me. That is the charity model mindset. And what comes with the charity model is of course that as soon as the person the project that you're trying to help has any kind of agency, you resent it. And there's always strings attached. So she tells tie who tie can date or not date ties, like clearly authentically interested in Travis and she's like, Absolutely not. We don't do that. This is how we talk she gives her she's like, we're not going to talk the way you talk, you're going to talk like me, gives her diet advice takes all our personal choices. She's not allowed to smoke only at parties, which is another fascinating aspect of this. And then the moment that Ty starts to find the agency and likes Josh, which I think is also really interesting because Cher doesn't give a fuck about by the way her stepbrother, which did creep me out as a child and still creeps me out even though they're not blood related. She doesn't like Josh until Ty has agency and likes Josh and I just thought that was also another interesting nuance of the elite being like, Oh, is that the thing we like now you watch the Kardashians do it? You know? Oh, that's the new trend. Actually, it's mine. That's what I've wanted. And I like all along. And now I'm going to take it. So it's Ty who likes Josh and then share likes Josh. It's the turning point. She's as soon as Ty has agency share in her like white privilege. And elite privilege says I'm in an alternate reality or something she just like can understand what's happening if she's not in control. And she pivots and just finds another way to be like the performative charity helper and becomes captain of the Pismo Beach Relief Fund.
It's amazing. Yeah, good.
Yeah. There's you haven't rewatched it a while. There's basically like, what takes us through the third act is there's been some sort of disaster. What's the disaster in Pismo
Like a hurricane or something? So sharers like I will be in charge of the Pismo Beach disaster relief. There's a great scene where she's tabling for it and it like the camera pans over like actual organizers that are doing like it's like, save the like, save the world, save the trees, and then it's like Pismo Beach and everyone's at the Prismo beach table, which speaks which speaks to this, this this charity metaphor that you're laying out rib, which is like, whatever share thinks is the most important thing to focus on that becomes everyone's central focus.
I was just gonna say there's a great book mutual aid by Dean Spade that gives that's the alternative to this model is mutual aid.
It's seeing you know, her being such a product, like not only like of hers, like smaller society, the one that you're like the one that we're speaking about the privilege, but then it's also like, she's just she really truly is, in a lot of ways this like, embodiment of like capitalist. No, you know, it is, as you said, brilliant satire, but and but it's also like she is, you know, she is the product of hers of like all of that as opposed to like, you know, rebelling against that which I guess is like the Josh like, you know, archetype in this world, right? She's the one who is just completely and totally a product of this world. And you know, I think what's interesting is like, you know, at the end are sort of like, you know, well, how much who's actually changed in the equation? Is it Josh has changed? Or is it share that's changed? And has she just brought him closer to her as opposed to him bringing her closer to you know, caring about CNN, for example?
Yeah, it's, you're right, it is kind of like, it's like a fairly weak, closed like final arc for share. But I think that's kind of intentional in that like, she only becomes just like this, like the slightest bit more empathetic, like the whole early part of the movie she like, like ribs, like won't let Ty be with Travis. She's like trying to force ty to be with Elton who absolutely sucks. But then like shares changes that she's just like, she like loosens up a little bit. She's like, No Thai you can be with Travis and like, Oh, I'm going to help Pismo Beach. And I'll actually like, maybe consider my stepbrother, who I, you know, had written off. And these are, I guess, playing within the social hierarchies within the high school within Beverly Hills. But then you zoom out and you keep in mind, like, all of these people are insanely wealthy. Like, there's no, she hasn't really changed her outlook, and her internal class conflict that she's applying to everybody else. It's just like, okay, you've just, you decided to, like other types of rich people,
nor is she offering any material change to Thai? No, right. And
I think that even like, I think that last scene when like, they're, like, you know, at the, you know, they're after wedding, which like, I, even when I was younger, I thought that wedding scene was really it was very odd that there are features wedding, like, I get so bizarre. It's so weird. But at the end, when he comes up to me, he's like, oh, you know, there's like a $200 bet going and like, who's gonna get the bouquet? And it's like, oh, like, it's he? Cuz is he now like, gone a little bit closer to the dark side? It feels like it's hard. This movie hardly feels like an indictment of this. It's a satire, but it also doesn't feel like an indictment of this system. Totally,
although there's so much potential way of putting it, but he doesn't.
But I think that, you know, when you're mentioning like, you know, like Clinton's third year in office, and sort of where we were at as a country, I think it feels very much of its time. And also, when you're talking about like, eating other countries and being I don't feel like neoliberalism was necessarily very, it was criticized in, you know, academic circles, but I hardly feel like it was something that was actually that people were reading articles about or discussing. And, you know, in the papers,
it's kind of bubbling up, it's like, just in getting getting going. And actually, that's such a great point, because in a lot of ways you could critique this through the lens that this aids in that I mean, maybe Josh, Josh really is sort of that neoliberal character who just kind of, oh, let's, let's move to the center for love, which actually echoes a lot of what we saw in You've got mail that feeling of of love politics, like, who cares if you have to bend a little and move your moral compass? She's hot. Who cares if she's my sister,
Who cares if I'm 19? And she's 16. That
other part, would that fly anymore? Like, I mean, could you really I don't, I don't. I don't think you could write that anymore. Where she's single.
You have I mean, we they still make movies like that. Call me by your name? Oh,
yeah. I mean, that that's, I mean, I but I like a teen a mainstream teen comedy, would they be able to do that? I don't know.
I don't think they'd make them step siblings anymore. Just we didn't need it could have been a neighbor. It could have been a family friend. It helps that everybody
looks 40 Like everybody do you Okay, when they go to the college party, and there's a 50 year old man who's like the college student, just to justify them using 30 year olds is high school like everyone's age just
off. Well, that's kind of that's another ages are totally off. The other thing that cracks me up about the parties is that I forgot how lame the parties were like the parties do not look that fun. You
wouldn't really know maybe you'd go
to those parties. Oh, yeah, that looks you'd go to the valley party.
I'd go to that valley party. Suck and blow Sign me up.
I've been to some Valley parties. Valley parties.
I'm not knocking Valley parties. But I've just I felt like then the college party with like, I was like, Who is this band? I had to like, look it up. But it was like, oh, at Mighty
Mighty Mighty Bosstones my first live concert. What? Oh, yeah, I was not it was a it was a buddy of mine. And they were doing he was a big fan of the Mighty Mighty Bosstones. And they were doing like a free concert in Philly. And so we went and I was like, wow, I don't know anything about this. Is this what all music is like? This is not that good. Wow. Funny. They had that guy whose only job in the band was to dance on stage. So like when you see in the news see in the movie that one guy was just dancing like that's a member of the Mighty Mighty Bosstones. And that's all he did. He didn't play an instrument. He didn't sing. They were just like, you know, it was it was different back then. Music Industry there were like, Can we get a Can we get a per diem for our duty just dances and doesn't do anything. That's
funny. The other one the like, this is like this isn't that this is just a funny thing. Like Elton in the cranberry CD. I forgot about that. Like how he loves the cranberries. He like talks about it in school. He's like, I've got to go get my cranberry seed. Yeah, something plays in the car, like the cranberries and way to bring it back. Just one
more point about the share of it all. I don't know that share gets enough credit as this archetype that sets up Legally Blonde. I mean, we see this character over and over again, I'm sure there's one word for this, but she particularly sets up this. I put on the dumb facade like I dress up and I'm performatively dumb on the outside, but well meaning on the inside. So any harm I cause didn't have harmful intention. And I think that's so dangerous and sets up also what we see in our forgiveness then later on of the Paris Hilton's, and the heiresses, and certainly the Kardashians, you know, and actually, I'm very smart and could go to law school, so I shouldn't be trusted, you know, so I am still again, this like, moral superiority of like, why I why I have my money's because I work really hard. You know, there's the I'm just thinking about like, Kardashians built their whole brand on that, you know, and
it also is like, in the movie, like the fact that she literally argues her way into getting A's. You know, it's like, she doesn't actually work, you know, but she feels like she's working. And so sort of the illusion of working versus the actual work and like, what, like, it feels like there are blurry lines between those two things. Yeah, in this sort of more, you know, in this world that we're talking about.
And the last thing I want to hit on the her relationship with Thai because I think that is really like the central relationship of this movie, we've had a lot of just about how like Thai is portrayed as, like the lower class person in this film, just in like all of her habits and her speech and her dress, and it really broadcasts to the audience that like, if you are, let's say, you know, not conventionally attractive, you don't dress well you don't you know, you don't speak well then you are you are a less valuable person. And that message doesn't really get corrected at the end because like the only change that time makes and the chair mate still makes more tie as you can do with Travis the skater stoner dude, you know, like that's, that's the one change like I would have loved to have seen Cher coming to high school in like sweats with no makeup on. And you know, like, that would have been a cool that would have been a more effective Ark. I feel like it her coming and being like, you know what, none of this shit matters. We're all basing this like, this whole social hierarchy doesn't matter. I want to be comfortable. I don't get it. We don't we no one should give a shit about this stuff anymore. And then like seeing all of the disparate cliques in high school just kind of like merging all together. I mean, like, yeah, why are we all just like, why are all new TV people sitting the TV people stoners with the stoners popular with the popular, but I feel like the end it just like really reinforces kind of like shares privilege and perspective.
Yeah. And I think also, if it was really good to push through the satire to the very end, that wouldn't be shares everything, right? So it's kind of like it's a satire up until act three where then it sort of turns into something that's a little bit more, for lack of a better word, like earnest and love and like it sort of gently, you know, it shifts and I don't I didn't feel that shift totally. But Frank, you're you're right that like the tie of it all sort of just left you know, then it's like, Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. You know, makeup everything's fine. Yeah, where Are you know, really, you almost want to see tie knot forgive? And what does that look like in shares world?
And then the other thing, is that what you're talking about actually, Tina Fey did in the Mean Girls. She did it. She did it. She did that moment at the end. And it works really well, you know, but I think that this one is like, I feel like that, that those last moments like the tie in share, like, you know, if the roles were really reversed, I think it would have like, taken on a full satire and, and
with the ending that it has, it's not surprising that like you to as like, young women, as little girls, and probably little girls around the country were like, oh, I need to be like this, like this is this is the archetype like I'd like now I must do this. Rather than offering like a really strong critique of this lifestyle. But again, like, you know, this movie is it's brilliant satire. And if you can read between the lines, you you pick all of that up, but like, I can totally understand how on a young person's mind you you're unable to like really understand the satire at all. Yeah, like do you think you do? You
think you do? Or do you think you know, and it's the subtle cues right, that are always under scored. Just to your point about the class divide on this rewatch, it was so fascinating how the elite class was so filled in, there's so much detail about their life experience. We learned about you know, shares, parents and our upbringing. We learn less about Deion but we still learn things through their characters and all of the working class characters are again, like very, we only see them through the eyes of the elite. We don't really we don't even really know where Ty is from how she got there. Who what her family experiences other than we do know, she's not a virgin. You know, so they're defining these things for us.
And she smokes weed and does Coke, which are bad. Oh, my God, my favorite line.
Oh, shit, you guys got coke here? Yeah, this is America, like the best. But I also think there was another thing I noticed, which was so strange. In terms of how each class reacts to stress, we have that moment where in the classroom, they all get bad grades. And Travis tries to jump out the window, like has this very strong response to like, and it's comic, but he's serious. He plays it in earnest. Like, I have to jump out the window, like, kill myself. And, you know, Cher's response to stress is shopping and massages. And I'm gonna fix the grades. It's not a big deal, daddy. And then Ty has this moment, when she gets stressed out as well. And she hits her head. And I just that stood out to me as like, it's so subtle, but what a deep contrast. That's a pretty profound thing to watch someone do and pretty real for like a comedy, She Bangs her head against the I think it's at the diner or counter. That was just again, things that you're subtly learning about, oh, well, a morally superior person would potentially understand how to deal with their stress in a more graceful way, like shop and get a massage, and there's something inferior and debase in this reaction. Those subtle things always fascinate me and what these films are teaching us politically.
Yeah, it's really interesting. I'd never I did not see that. Oh, then you're right, though. Well, what do you have? Right? So it's like really material? Because it's like, what do you actually have at your disposal? So that and it's like for share? She can do anything, but Ty can't go to the mall and just like spend 1000s of dollars, she can bang her head? You know, it's like very, like, it's pretty, like kind of Stark acts.
Yeah. Right. And it's contrasted by how all of these kids at this high school just talk their way out of every single bit of adversity that they encounter. Just like like Elton's always gonna He's like, I got up Mum, can I just go to the bathroom? Dion during tennis lesson is like, I've got a note from my tennis trainer who doesn't want to like, you doesn't want me to, like be training with outside people. It's so good. It's brilliant. Because like, when share faces, like the tiniest bit of adversity in the end, but just like not being as popular as she was, she like has an a full on existential.
Yeah. Yeah, she's a little less popular. And it's, it is interesting to think about, like, what that movie, what the version of that is now, you know, and it's, it's really interesting to think about, like, what, like, does that story even work in the world of like social media, and like, sort of what we like sort of in the world of the Kardashians, like, is this the I don't know, it's
like, well, there's this there's this really interesting concept of a window of tolerance, which is sort of that window that you have to be able to really be centered and present for something before you're either in in like a hyper emotional state or a Hypo emotional state. So where you're really reactive And for people who've actually experienced maybe a lot of trauma early on, that window of tolerance tends to be a little bit wider because you've had these if you've had experience being uncomfortable, you've had experiences where you've had to work, you know, so the ties and the Travis, their window of tolerance is going to be a lot wider. I mean, they certainly have experienced a lot more in this film than then share doesn't what we see with shares. The second anything is beyond her ability to tolerate slightly uncomfortable because she's been so privileged. Like you said, Frank, she says, this world is crazy. It's just upside down.
Yeah. She, I always, even when I first like, saw when I was young, I always thought the mom line where it's like her mom died. And she's just gone. Like, there's something. It's just this throwaway line. We only hear about the mom one other time, I always thought that was so interesting that like this complete lack of a maternal presence, like how that has impacted her life and who she is, you know, like, I always, I always thought that that little like, you know, and yes, it's like a ridiculous way that her mom died. But it's also like, Yeah, but like the undercurrent of like what that is, you know, when we're talking about, we're talking about trauma, it's like she doesn't have a mom. So like, yes, she has all the privilege in the world. But she never had a mom. She died when she was a baby, and the undercurrents
of the diet culture. Like you're saying, that's a small thing. It's there. But I can't help but also think about because Brittany Murphy's performance in this is so brilliant. And it's so tragic to think about her journey and her trajectory and what we what we know of what diet culture and what that psychology and the pressures of capitalism to be thin, and Hollywood and where it all intersects, that she felt, from what I've seen in documentaries, and read really terrible about being perceived, as you know, as Thai even though Thai is the most i Her performance is just breathtaking. I think she's so good, but to feel like, terrible, and the movie sets her up to feel terrible.
And I think that was really, I think that it's it's very, it's very strange, because you when you watch it, now, it's like, all of that was so normalized. Like that's just how people spoke to each other. That's how we talked that was like, what, you know, there was no, no one was really thinking, I think, in a lot of ways, the 90s were like this period where like, we thought we had dealt with everything. We were like, God did that race, God. Like, we had dealt with all the things. It's all
uphill from here, baby. Yeah, exact nothing, but only getting better forever and ever.
I think that like 2000 was like, I think the bush like Bush v. Gore was sort of like whatever. Like, we're reality, like sort of, I think kind of came crashing in like, that attitude was like, it was completely like was shattered. But I think that before everyone kind of like, Oh, we're good. You know, everyone's fine. You know, you we don't have we dealt with all of like, the problems I had, when I look at the 90s. Now it just not. I mean, obviously there were people that were really doing the deep work and the deep thinking but I think culturally we all a lot of people were on board with like, you know, oh, yeah,
what a weird I went to a considerably progressive Elementary School in Park Slope, public school, but I just I'll never forget, because I had a single Well, my mom and dad were separated, which was unheard of. And so I just remember these parents that were supposed to be progressive, but then the treatment that I got, like the shock and all of having us like a single mom. And just I remember so early, that visceral feeling of how parents would treat me different. And there was a morality attached to it, which makes me again, think about this last experience, there's and High School in schools is such a great, it's such a great location to explore that because we almost forgive these hierarchies as like, kids, you know, but we understand that we carry that we learn it, that's where you're learning to socialize. And we literally carry it with us through the rest of our lives. So it's all very intentional.
The fact that you felt that way and in progress. I mean, you were in Brooklyn, and probably one of the most progressive elementary schools in the country. And the fact that you felt that way. I can't even imagine where how other people were feeling. And then we were but we were being told by the media, a very different story. expiry. Yeah, we're being fed a very different kind of narrative. And I think that's what I find so fascinating about the 90s is that I mean, now we're in this Whole other bizarre period in terms of like what, you know, fact versus fiction and you know, all of that. But in the 90s, it's like, what we said we were, as a country as a society versus what was actually going on behind the scenes. I
think it's also I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that like, the 80s, and 90s were probably like the the weakest points in American history for like the left. And I don't mean liberals, I mean, like the left, just like after, after all of the losses of the late 60s and 70s. And, you know, the boomers all selling out and like, and the absolute transformation of the Reagan Revolution, and then Clinton coming along and being like, I'm basically like, cool Reagan, who can play the saxophone and like, I think ever. Yeah, I think so. I think the that's, that is what fucking right Clinton is. He's just cool Reagan. But yeah, I think I think you're absolutely right, though. So what we were getting fed was like, Look, Soviet Union has gone the, the stock market all time high, like we are, we are good, everyone is good. It's just like, enjoy your bits and bobs and your little toys, because that's all we got to worry about.
Sexism doesn't exist anymore. I mean, I thought this is the kind of like, this was really. I mean, I'm sure you both feel the same. But like, as an adult, looking back on that period, and like, you know, I was I was born in 1980. I was born in like, the last month of Jimmy Carter's presidency. And it really is, like, it's crazy to think about the fact that like, I was like, I was an 80s, like Reagan, like, when consumerism was just at its peak. And I was being marketed to, like, in a way that I mean, it's I think it just got more and more intense. And by the 90s, it was like, it was intensified even more I would say, but like, the way that you are taught to be consumer from you know, from your absolutely, is just really kind of crazy. The
last thing I wanted to hit real fast is and this might be part of the satire is like, there's a lot of cultural appropriation in this movie, you know, there are like that, like, there's a whole scene built around a bunch of white kids singing rolling with the homies. When we're introduced to Christians character, he's like, you do it, you know, he's doing like the whole, like, I dig man like that thing. And in fact, like Dan Hidayah, has a great line where he's like, What did you think the depth of Sammy Davis left it opening in the ratpack? There was like the one and then there's the one line of shares to her to the their housemade, where she says, I don't speak Mexican. And then she gets upset. And then Paul, and then Josh is like, she's from El Sol, El Salvador. It's a totally different country. But those are the only moments that I was like, Oh, this maybe didn't age super well.
I think the Mexican one actually. I mean, it's, it's so fun. I mean, it's so offensive. But it also I feel like because it was course correct, like because it was corrected immediately, and sort of painted share, and, you know, pretty bad light. I felt like it gave us it gave us an idea of like, how she interacts with the world and the people that work for her. And so I felt like that one sort of, you know, it's offensive, and it would it would be offensive now, and maybe it wouldn't be maybe it wouldn't be written now. But I think a version of it would be written.
I agree with you. But you're right. It's played as offensive in the scene like, Josh. What? Yeah, like what you just said is offensive.
Amy Heckerling loves share too much. There's too much love. And there's too much banking on the fact that like, they gotta sell this. So people love share. So I think that's, that's the only part that made it potentially cringy was just that you're like, Yeah, but the fact that we forgive her, in spite of it makes it kind of casual racism, but she's a good person. So it's okay. Yeah,
I think that that's sort of where it would be I think the same would be written slightly. Yeah, I mean, to joy, you know, because I, but I do think that like, those little moments go a long way towards reminding us that this person isn't, she's not this person that we can be rooting for 24 to seven, you know, in a way that I actually think that like Legally Blonde and ivory watched in years, but I think that that character, she's just so like, she's just unflappable, and she doesn't actually say offensive things to people. She's just really ditzy, you know, so those are differences. I mean, the thing she says to tie to, like, I think could also fall into that category. Which what the Caitlyn she first is when she's first there, and it's like, she's talking about what she's wearing. And she's talking about, like, the fact that like, she can't smoke weed during the day and like all of these like judgments on who Ty is.
I mean, I think to your point to Frank, it's like this. This elitist class will be like, we don't do drugs, but we do. Like we don't we do, but we do only when we want to and when we want to It's okay. I think there's an I think tries to make that point, you know, but could even go farther. If they were doing it today, it would be a little bit more courageous. You know, your friend Patricia Resnick talked about her sort of darker version of nine to five that she was one and I feel like there's a darker version here. That could be just so good.
All right. Well, this is the point of the episode, Karen, where we give out awards for this movie, we got three of them. The first award is best politics goes to the character with the best politics in the movie. Oh, what's
the best politics?
That's politics? Yeah.
Well, I guess for me, this is a hard one. So I'll tell you why. So we just were talking about how I think we just decided that Josh is a neoliberal. So that's hard. Yeah. I think that it's like it's it's hard for me to like 100% Get on board with those politics. Now. I think it would have been the easy answer. The person that I know less about his politics, but I'm hopeful for his future would be Travis.
I'd be I'd be hopeful for Travis.
I'd have to assume he's going to become radical. Being a skater boy, like just said he's probably more exposed eventually to radical politics,
puts her name miss the teacher. She seems like she has good politics to her heart is definitely in the right place. Yeah. Oh,
absolutely. Yeah. I mean, what's the class that she teaches? Like civics or something? Yeah. She's the one that's like actually trying to organize everything. I
think she's maybe the most pure character politically. Absolutely.
I think that's right. Miss Geist.
This guy? Yeah. Yes, Miss guys. Yeah,
I think you're right. I think Miss Geist probably has the best politics. I was also gonna say, Josh, because at one point, he's like, I want to get into environmental law. But then working with the dad and like, Yeah, but then he ends up working with the data on the corporate law, and data day as the green line where he's like, he's like, environmental law. Why do you want to be miserable for the rest of your life? Yeah. All
right. Worst politics, this goes to the character with the worst politics in the movie. Well,
so this is an interesting one, because I actually think that a lot of the characters are, are there a political, which is the worst is bad politics. But I think that a lot of these this is the funny the funny thing is that all of those young characters would be like young, not all a lot of them are probably Young Democrats, right are young, you know, consider themselves liberal would vote, you know, whatever their counterparts are today are voting for, you know, I mean, Ron DeSantis, for lack of a better word, a the lack of a better example, not publicly. Well, yes, yes. This is true. This is true. Maybe, maybe privately. I think the dad is an easy one because he, you know, clear, but I mean, maybe he isn't either this is a tough one, guys. I think the worst politics is actually hard.
No, I I'm on I'm on that track. I think it's probably Mr. Horowitz. Because he is like, he doesn't he doesn't display any sort of like toxic politics, but he is like a very high paid corporate lawyer. So we have to imagine he's a piece of shit. And his clients are pieces of shit. So I think just by like, just based on stickers, I mean, and also most of these, like you said, most of the other characters are high school students. So
yeah, and like and also like even when she's doing the Pismo Beach disaster, you know, she's doing the you know, all of that, you know, she's she's doing the donations and she's taking charge, like if he doesn't even offer like money for the disaster. And like, there's so much to share,
even though I do think shares politics are representative of something so atrocious. I think she could potentially potentially be like, moved and radicalized it's sad that Josh could Josh hadn't I think it makes Josh worse because Josh didn't like didn't even try like, but I'm with you. It's got to be it's got to be the data. So don't like the way he parenthesize her and yeah, there's something icky about the that to me. That's like kind of, you know, that relationship, I don't like it.
Alright, and our last award is best supporting character slash spin off goes to your favorite supporting character and maybe a spin off that you would want to see. So my
favorite character from since the first time I ever watched it was Ty. Oh, Ty was always my favorite character. So I always went for that outsider in the world like she always was the one that I like, loved the most. That they're you know, who else would be we know so little about all the characters. I think that's what's kind of amazing about the movie is that it's such a great cast. No, but all of I think all of them could be kind of fun. Except for Amber. Um, no, I've no interest in amber.
Don't give a shit about Amber.
Like a TV series. I feel like Amber's character Actually the wind to get a lot bigger and title smaller. Yeah,
no, that makes no sense to me. No sense at all. I love that. I love the I love mer and Cindy Marie and the
boyfriend. Yeah. Yeah. Donald faisons character. Great Love.
I liked it. And when he's like, don't tell my mom, don't tell my mom valving shaming is sad. Like, I'm curious to see what that world is. Like, who are they? You know,
shocked by how many tattoos these high schoolers had so many so many 16 year old with tattoos.
I loved Okay, shout out to another line. I love when Ty arrives. And she's like, Wow, you guys talk like grownups. And Sherry delivers it perfectly. She's like, Oh, well, this is a really good school. Yeah.
The lines are so it's so good. Like, it's just really it's so well written. Like it really is. And like, you know, just such a perfect cast. So yeah, so I think I'd be happy with a lot of spin offs. Yeah, yeah, I would watch
the Thai prequel movie where like her life in New York. And then I would also I would also watch the like, the Josh goes to work in corporate law, and then like, has, has like an identity crisis. And he's like, I need to be come a public defender like this is I'm, I'm so empty inside.
Oh, my God, can you imagine the dark, like, just like and being? Like, just like, just being an overworked public defender, it's like this sequel to the other side. What it means to, you know, get paid nothing. And devote your life.
And Paul Rudd to refer could play it at any point. Oh, yeah. Starting at age as an age picking right back up. He
looks exactly the same age. Now. As he did that. It's, it's
wild. It's amazing. This was such a fun conversation. Before we wrap up, Karen, we ask our guests how in your daily life, is there any way that you practice your anti capitalist values or any of your values that you would like to share with us? Sure.
I mean, I feel like, I feel like the biggest way I was trying to think about this, because I actually think I could do more and better. And I welcome suggestions. But the first one is, I've always been in unions. And I think that, that, you know, collective collective labor actions are sort of, I mean, we're seeing them being really incredibly successful in a lot of different sectors right now. And, you know, I'm really heartened that it seems like there's a resurgence of union and unionizing efforts. And then the other one is just so I mean, I think that everyone is doing it now. But I really tried to do the bone nothing on you know, there's this binary page on Facebook. And I find that that's really a great place to, to get things from people and to share things, and to try to make sure that you use things for as long as you possibly can. And not just like, buy, buy, buy. And then also, then to the same point, like, you know, getting really trying to get as much, especially for my son getting as much secondhand as I possibly can. So either like, you know, getting it like for free from people on like, the parent groups or, you know, exchanging it for like, you know, for exchanging it for money, but like between people as opposed to going to a
store. Those are great ones. And yeah, I'm a part of my neighborhoods, buy nothing group. And yeah, for any of our listeners have never heard of it. There's probably about nothing in your neighborhood on Facebook now. And
I feel like they also build a sense of community. And I think that, yeah, it's even like simple things. Like, you know, hey, I'm leaving town, and I've got like, a, I've got a, you know, I've got like a refrigerator full of veggies. Does anybody need them? You know, like, just sort of, like, all of those ways of just like, you know, sharing, like, from big things to small things. I think it's a really, I definitely feel like it's, it's helped our sense of community. I don't know if you feel the same way, Frank, big time.
Yeah. I've like I've given away stuff to people who I didn't see on street. I was like, oh, did you take that, uh, you take that umbrella that we didn't use anymore? And we're like, Yep, that was me. So using that umbrella. It's great. Karen, this was such a fun conversation. Thank you for choosing this movie. I'm so glad we got to do it and got to talk to you about it.
Thank you. Yeah. This is so great. And such an interesting way to like, talk about this film. And you know, I had a great time. Thank you all so much for having me.
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next week's movie. We'll be watching the 1976 satire of the capitalist media industry Network.