We are discussing the biggest challenges that are currently holding back the field of speech language pathology.
We present the issues with facts and invite you to be part of joining our movement to make things better one conversation at a time.
Let's fix SLP.
Everybody, welcome back. We hope you had a great Thanksgiving if you celebrate that we are off schedule and off topic.
But we just decided today to do a fun q&a. We have new folks consistently joining us sometimes they have time to look back at our 100 posts, and sometimes they don't. So we just thought we'd give everybody an opportunity to ask questions. And we fill in some blanks if you've missed something or it'll be a nice reminder if you've been following very closely. Yeah.
Do you just want to jump right in? Megan?
Let's do it. So the first question is, I'm wondering how this applies to clinical fellows. If my employer employees CFS, why wouldn't they hire SLPs without the CS, do new grads who don't want to supervise even need to do the CF.
And this is where we're like we just have to continue to delineate the autonomous speech pathology profession, from this national association. So just because the National Association has marketed this clinical fellowship year as part of the gold standard of their gold standard of certifications, does not mean that the cert the clinical fellowship is required. Like I was thinking about this the other day, like how they even named that like using the word fellow, which is also what they use for like their highest distinguished SLPs in their association. And I like you're saying like a true medical fellowship, right? It's not only Yeah.
So the word, I don't know, I always just assumed that it's like a part of your training and a fellowship is extended training. Yeah. But all of the states, well, most of the states, I have not taken the time to look through every single state requirement, although we do have it for you at fix slp.com under Quick Links, many states have an equivalent to the CF as part of their licensure requirements. It's just not called the CF, it's typically a professional learning experience or continued education experience. Every state has a different name for it. But this license, a lot of them, they'll call it a limited license, then you move on to your full license. Yes, yes. Sorry. But
I lost my train of thought or Oh, but the requirements are very similar, or more difficult. So in Ohio, you have to have more face to face hours than you do for the CFX. So you know, there's, there's specific things in every state that you need to do.
So how this applies to see this is what I've been telling people who are CF, who are new grads, because we have gotten that question too, should I even bother getting the CCC. And my response continues to be what we say it's, it's a place of privilege right now to let your CCC go. We are set up in a system where many people do still need to have it. And so we should be preparing students to get the CCC. So they have that option. This is a conversation for a different day. Because, of course, one of the goals of this movement is choice, right? And so we'd like people to have choice. But where we stand today, you really should prepare yourself for that. So what I've been saying is go through the process you're you're if you're still a student, you're going to graduate from an accredited program where I can see program which is even if they weren't to get accreditation, it would not affect you. So you're going to graduate from an accredited program. And then do your CF with someone who has the CCC and and then take the Praxis or take the practice if you have to do it first in your state. And then if if you find a job that doesn't require the CCC just take some time you have five years from the time you pass that practice to decide on if you want the CCC and
As you know, hopefully, if Megan and I have any say about it five years from now, it really will be optional. And then you wouldn't need it. But you do have five years, just keep all of your paperwork in a binder or at a folder, backed up on your computer and just make the decision later, you don't have to immediately apply for the CCC, you do need to immediately apply for your state license. That's the law. It's required. But the CCC can remain optional. So if you're a CF going through the process, and your job doesn't require it, just wait on it if you're not sure.
What do you think about that? Megan?
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, every situation is so unique. And so if somebody's in
a situation where they live in a state where the C's are not required to get a license, they're not required to bill Medicaid and you like, know where you're going to work and like you're a shoo in. And like, it's a guarantee that you're going to have a job at a place that doesn't require the C's, then you could consider not getting them. But that That's that situation is not very common for new grads. So yeah.
I would also say that the CF, unfortunately, has just become a way to hire SLPs at a lower rate.
And I think anyone who's been through the CF why process if they didn't experience it themselves, they know other people who experienced it, where they never really even had supervision because of the rules in place by ASHA, the person, you don't have to be on the same site as each other. Right? Like, you don't have to be due for a month, there's face to face contact hours, which they may have less lifted during COVID. But I that's not the case anymore. There's each segment each Third, there are required face to face hours.
But you don't they don't have to like they could come from another building. Yeah, yes. Ours. Yes.
So I had a fellow once that was working two hours away from where I lived. Yeah, yeah.
So I mean, all of that to say like, I just don't know, there's issues with the CFY itself.
And then it's, I just want to make sure it's very clear that the CF y is a product of Asha, like it's rather than the product of the CCC, it is not required to be an SLP in the United States. Correct. And if you're unsure about these things, please reach out to us, we can help you. There are even some little caveats here that we're continuing to dig into that in one or two states, you need to have the CCC for the initial license. And then after that, you don't need it at all. So even our map as accurate, as we think it is now might have one or two little blips and we continue to invite to let us know we just
we're not really interested in you messaging us and saying my state requires it, we need you to message us or email us and say my state requires it. And here is the legislation that says that and double check to make sure that there's not an or because we get a lot of that.
And to clarify the or means that there Yeah, it will state the ASHA CCC is required comma, or, and then it'll list basically all the requirements of the C so that or is very important word because it means you can have the CCC or you can have their list of things that their work. It might not even list the things it might say or equivalent from whatever. Yeah, so we're willing to take a look at that for you and talk through it. We have a nice little tile up somewhere to have questions. I think there's four questions, you can ask yourself for that process. So all of that to say, if you are a CF or a new grad, or a student moving towards that, and you're not sure what to do, do your own research, check out all of our resources. We do also at fix slp.com have a blog that says things we've got wrong. So we don't ever delete or change posts. We just are adding to that list as we go. So please, you know, do your research reach out to us. But yes, the CF is connected to the CCC which is a product that you purchase. And it is in no way required. Yeah. Thanks to Morgan for that question. And an anonymous person asked What does Asha actually do for us? I need a caseload cap. I have 99 kids on my caseload. I need continuing beneficials ease that don't cost so much. I need so many things keep doing this job and Asha does not seem to help us at all.
And I would just refer this person to the recent CEO live chat with ASHA where you can hear from
for yourself how Asha continues to say that they do not have any power to change things like caseload caps, they don't have the power to change things like insurance reimbursements. That's kind of their message over and over is they don't have the power to do anything. But they will continue to tell you that states have the power to do things. And so caseload caps could be put into your state legislation, it just takes somebody proposing that rule, and getting it through the political government process. And you can probably get some help with that with your state association.
And you can also connect with other people in our Pumble community, which you can link up to, on our website, if you go to the quick links, and you can connect with other local SLPs who want to change things in your state. So you could go into Pumble find your state's channel and say, Hey, I have 99 kids on my caseload, how many do you guys have and then you can all start talking about how to introduce legislation.
It's just a matter of finding the right people, and knowing the right channels to go through to get something like that passed. But Asha, basically what Asha does is they kind of do some lobbying like, again, with the ASHA co live chat, they talk a lot about what they do for SLP. So that would be a place to find out whether it's relevant to you, I don't really know. So I can jump into on our in our Facebook community, I just love. First of all, shout out to all of you who have educated yourself right along with us, and have made it so Megan and I don't have to answer every single question like you see, someone asks something that has already been answered by us. And you're in there like giving the right response. Thank you. Because this is a big job. So on Facebook, somebody asked something similar. It was under our one of our podcast tiles.
And it's just an evolving conversation. I don't even think it how it got here was related to the initial question.
But someone was tagged, who must have been a part of the CAA the the accreditation arm of Asha. And because she said, I've been out of accreditation for a while and, and I don't know, she looks like she's proud. Yeah, she's a former professor, she's probably retired.
And she says a lot of things that, that we hear people saying, but she ends with maintaining Asha membership and certification opens a world of access to information via journals and clinical publications. These resources are not available to non members. The value of the CCCs is access to the scientific and professional information for lifelong learning as a professional
institution, that is a membership benefit. Yeah, so that's what I mean, she's obviously not the voice of Asha.
What right and like I just said, they get so underneath one of our followers is like, it is interesting that membership and certification are conflated. Are you sure what the distinction is? I mean, that was that even for lies, like I was like, yes, preach.
Um, so they may go, I mean, this conversation continues on in it. But listen, we want these we want these very respectful conversations. And, you know, it was a great discussion. And I have nothing bad to say about it. But and obviously, that responder was not the voice of Asha. But it is very reflective of what we have had hurt what we've heard ashes, say, to this point. And whether it's membership or certification, whatever, because they're all intertwined. I'm sorry. $225, for access to journal articles that I can get in other ways is not a benefit to me.
So yeah, we we beat on this drum a lot. But
yeah, so that was someone who previously worked in accreditation, it looks like yeah, and I'll also say, like Asha does good things. Like I'm not here to burn it down, tear it down or anything. And I'm not anti Asha. I'm just saying that SLPs deserve the choice. So they can look at an a national association like that they can see transparently, and clearly what Asha stands for what they're working on. And they can say, Yes, this association aligns with my needs as an SLP in my career, and I would like to give them money, or they can say, you know, what they're doing doesn't really align with what I need. And so I'm
I'm going to choose a different organization to give money to or be a part of. And that's all we're saying. So like, if this person who asked this question doesn't feel like Ash is doing anything for them, they should have the choice to not pay them. That's, that's all we're saying. That's all we're saying. This isn't an anti Asha movement. Asha should remain
should remain to, you know, embody who we are, define our scope of practice advocate for things that we all need to benefit from. It's this membership certification piece that we have really been speaking of.
And I'll just compare it to APTA in AOTA. Physical therapists and occupational therapists are not sold a full scope certification from their membership association.
And this, if you've been listening, and reading with us from the beginning, this, this will be repetitive, but maybe you haven't been that comment that I read, this is where it started. The first comment says, I'm going to cut out the beginning. She's just okay. I will always be a staunch advocate of the CCC, I worked way back in the day before it was required. And we have 12 hour wonders people with for courses who hung a shingle as an SLP and did not help people. It set a standard 50 years ago, and we cannot go back. Yes, yes. That's what Asha did for us. Yes, needed that. And we are thankful that, that this happened, right? That we are thankful for where we started. And that's what I told this person, I said, You shouldn't let your CCC go. You know, we all feel differently. But we needed that we needed the CCC, we needed Asha to form this profession. But as of 2016, when the last state licensing board was established, and now we have the interstate compact coming, which will change things even more. It's now redundant, and we don't need it to be that for us anymore. And I said it was absolutely needed during the times you mentioned, but it isn't anymore. Asher themselves says the CCC is optional, even though in many cases we all know it isn't. We believe everyone should have a choice. You should keep the CCC because it means something different to you than it does to me. And that's okay. We just hope others who feel differently could make the choice without fear.
Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, yeah, I don't know if we want to go down this other rabbit hole. Like you, I think we you and I differ on this where I'm like a free market economist. And I'm like if somebody wants to call themselves a speech therapist, and they're gonna help people. And people find value in that, like consumers kind of get to call the shots like as far as who they hire, and all of that, like I understand there should be some regulation. But at the same time, like what what's happened is like the regulation has gone from protecting us LPs
and, and maybe protecting consumers to like trapping SLPs, and not protecting consumers at all. So that's, that's a shift that's happened in the last 50 years. And you can definitely see it on Facebook with the generational differences.
And you're seeing it right here. You guys, Megan and I do disagree on just about everything, but I love her for that opinion. Mine is slightly different. I do think we need protection as a profession, just like we wouldn't let a teacher walk into a classroom and, and teach, you know, we there does need to be some licensure standards, but from state to state, it doesn't have to be, you know,
exactly the same everywhere. But yeah, for the most part. Um,
where was I going with this? Yeah, for the most part, we do agree on some things. I'm going to mute myself because I have a child coming down if you want to keep talking Megan.
I think part of it. And we've talked about this is like I went to high school in a zoo. And like, that was the one of the most powerful experiences of my life because it was a public school education, with public school teachers, but everything was just done differently. And it's really had an impact on me because I look at the world. And I'm like, Yes, it's good to have rules. And it's good to have institutions. But it's also good to have like, kind of wild ideas or like people who aren't typically involved in a group come in and shake things up a little bit. And when you get regulation that's so tight, and you get a culture like SLP that's so monolithic and exclusive of a lot of different types of people, then it's just bad for everybody. It's bad for people who want to be speech therapists. It's bad for consumers. And so yeah, I think we do differ because I see the argument for protecting the profession, but then I personally see what could potentially be the benefits of just kind of loosening things up a little bit and letting some more fresh air and how
Would consumers know who has had the coursework and is actually qualified then? Like if you were going to have surgery to be licensed? What's that? Get a state license? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yes. And I agree with that. Yeah, there's there, but there needs to be something to define. Right. So you know, that it's, again, just not someone hanging a shingle out who's had four courses and calling themselves or like our pediatric known you and I aren't as familiar with what's going on. But it's like our our pediatric colleagues were
ABA therapists and, and some other therapists are starting to say that they're, you know, language professionals and, and things like that.
Yeah. Which isn't, I'm like, they should be allowed to say that. And it's up to SLPs to make the case of why we're a better option. I don't, I don't like I don't think making rules about it is going to stop humans from human being. But I think giving information to consumers is going to let them make a choice that's right for them. And like I don't get to dictate what the consumer decides is right for them.
But I feel like I cut you off. Sorry, no.
This is the chillest recording. We I was in no way ready. I have no thoughts. You guys. Were just on here answering questions. All right. You ready to move on to another one, sir. All right. This, this one came via email from Sammy.
Sammy said more fuel to the fire in my district due to a recent agreement to avoid a teacher strike. All classroom teachers are guaranteed a classroom cap. All DNS providers other than speech are guaranteed a cap RSP has a cap of 26 kids per provider as well as our district leads make it a point to say that there is no cap for speech and that there are no caseload police. How is it that we are the only providers at schools without adequate representation? Or limits?
Oh, Pick Me Pick Me. Okay, I'm going to pick you unless Well, yes, I'm going to pick you. But do you know what DIS And RSP? stand for? Okay, I didn't either, because we're not school people. So while I'm picking,
I'm gonna Google and we'll let our listeners and ourselves know what those stand for. And you can just talk. Okay.
This is my own personal theory again. But I think it's a systemic cultural issue for SLPs. So while we are so busy screaming at the top of our lungs, for Asha, to fix this, we're expending all of our energy, trying to communicate our needs. And we're expending all of our money paying for the CCC. And we continue to be surprised every time. Nothing gets better.
And so my question back to Sammy is like, what would happen if we took the energy that we're spending trying to get asked to do something. And we just spent that energy going to our state legislators and making a cap of our own and in there's different ways you can do this? I know a lot of people go immediately to trying to create a union, which I think just we've talked about that. But I think that has its own problems and becomes its own trap for SLPs. And because there's not enough SLPs. And in any one community, they have to kind of latch on to other people, like teachers, and then you get problems or you're on the teacher, or the Yeah, the teacher pay scale.
So how is it that we're the only providers that schools without adequate adequate representation or eliminates
at the risk of sounding like I'm blaming this on SLPs? I would say it's because we're not speaking up. And we're in we're waiting for somebody like Asha or waiting for a union rep or somebody else externally to come fix it for us.
I have to say it. We're waiting for Big Daddy ASHA.
Big Daddy ASHA, come save me!
We're about to see, I'm about to go take my Girl Scout troop to see wish which is the new Disney movie, and I'm really hoping it's not one of those ones where the princesses get saved. Because you know, I love those old school movies from my childhood, but I like my daughter watching the things where they save themselves. I just do. Yeah. SLP as a field has a little bit of the case of the Disney complex, Disney Princess complex. Big Daddy Asha is not as cute as Aladdin. Okay, he's just not.
DIS DIS is designated instruction and services. So CME said all designated instruction and service providers other than speech have a cap an RSP is Resource Specialist Program. So the Resource Specialist Program has a cap as well. That's what those stands for.
Yeah, and there's just a lot of ways to start exploring how to make that happened, you could start talking to the other groups in the district to see how they made it happen. You could try to get in the room and those conversations when they're happening. Is this something that the school board is making a decision about? Is there a key member at the administrative level that's making this decision? Are they aware like, the more that you can gather facts and data, so getting all the SLPs in your district together and starting to track different information? I don't know exactly what that would look like. But some sort of measurement of workload related to your caseload. And presenting that and how unsustainable it is looking at rates of turnover, how much it costs to hire new people, like all of those kinds of hard facts of data is going to be what's going to help you make the case for why a cap is important, because just going to somebody and saying we're overworked. They're like, Oh, great, like you and everybody else. Like, unless you have actual facts that can back things up. I don't think anything's going to change. And that would be the case, whether you go through the legislation, the school board, the administrators, whatever, like whatever channel you're able to use. You need data.
And to I'm just going to tie this one in, because later down this page, we have the question DNS, how do school SLPs get off the teacher pay scale. And neither one of us have been a part of that. But
when I was
when I worked in the schools, and then I was also I did an internship on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation where they were starting to transition to have the SLPs go to the teacher pay scale.
So did I interrupt you? I'm sorry.
Yeah, this time, I actually had a thought, oh, go for it. I was gonna say, I don't think any of either of us have ever worked to get off the teacher pay scale, when I was in the schools SLP had their own pay scale. And at the time, I was too dumb to know, to go look at PT and OT, I just thought, Oh, this is my pay scale. So it was different than the teacher pay scale for sure.
But I don't know how it compared to teachers, and I don't know how it compared to the other therapists. I think though, we've had listeners who have been a part of getting off the teacher pay scale, I know I've read comments here and there.
So this is if you've I guess, if you've successfully done that, I'd love to connect you to DM and, and we can let dia know how we can let you know. And these these are the things that can also be discussed in Bumble, right? Because they're more localized, more state specific, even more than that, you know, it's district specific. But if you know, if Megan and I are in the same state, and we got off the teacher pay scale, then Megan's district is now interested in doing that, you know, then I can connect with her three hours away. So we want to help make those connections. But that's also a good question to be asking and humbled to people who are near you to see how it was done.
Yeah, and I think it's so hyper regionally specific, like if your district is having a hard time attracting SOPs or keeping SOPs. Again, there's like a data point that you can say, like this teacher, PayScale thing isn't working. And I think it's a numbers volume game. Like if you can get enough SOPs to start saying something. And again, it's not enough to just be like, this isn't working for us. We want to get paid more. It's like, be very specific about why that teacher pay scale isn't working. And there's probably like a list of things that we could all compare, like if you started talking to others and tumble about this, they might be able to point you to different data points you can look at but it's going to be so different for every district, but the more that you can look at your district and look at The unique points that make the case for getting you off the teacher pay scale. That's what you need to present, whoever it is that's making that decision. Yeah, but yeah, I mean, I think a lot of this is getting at this idea that part of this conversation of dropping the seas, like it's not just about dropping the fees, and like letting Asha do its own thing. It's also taking our power back and realize that, like, we get to have a say, in our profession, in how things are run. We're not just like doing what we're told by a national association, or, or our employer or anybody else, like, we have a right to speak up for what we need. Yeah. And
what's nice is that we're not stuck in hundreds of years worth of history, right? We're stuck in like 40 years of history. So it's, it's much easier to undo than it would be if it were running deeper than 40.
We'll just be glad we're not doctors dealing with all of their certifications and boards. And yeah.
All right. So speaking of certification, and boards, Sarah wants to know, why does Asha hate me? And make me pay dues at Christmas?
Yeah, so well.
that's, I don't know. Megan, what are your thoughts on that?
Also,
Also, is there ever a good time of the year to be paying $225 to renew the information that you did, indeed, go to grad school and pass the Praxis and complete nine months of supervised work? Like there's never a good time to continue to re pay? No, there's no need to convince people that you did these things, however many years ago, when it should be a one time fee. Yep.
Yeah, they and also, some listeners out there might be saying Sarah wasn't paying attention, because they started sending the emails months ago, that the defaults, and don't forget, they were giving those two $225 Like what it was at a gift card or a reimbursement or they were giving something to, they're gonna have a drawing if you paid before, whatever
day, like your odds are better in the lottery.
I know you out of 163,000 people, however many do that you could be drawn one of two, for $225 worth of something. So yes, some people would say you don't have to pay at Christmas, you can pay any time of year. You can Asha will take your money on February 14, and apply it to the following year.
It's not until January 31.
Yes, yeah. i Is there a late fee? If you don't? If between January 1 and January 31. Is there a late fee? I don't know. I want to say no. But I don't know. I do know this and this is a good time to bring it up. When I dug in, you know, there's still a lot of misinformation flying around on social about if I let my C's go and I want to reinstate them, what do I have to do? I personally called Asha and had this conversation dug into their website, double checked all of this. They will give you one year, you can let your CCS lapse for one year before you have to retake the Praxis. So the current requirement is if you let your CS GO FOR MORE THAN 365 days, you have to retake the practice. If it has been more than five years, you have to pay the reinstatement fee of $375 and that's what it is now it could always go up or down and then provide proof of continuing education for the time that you were out. What you should have been doing for your state license anyway. So even you even have that one year before all of that happens. I assume there is some kind of late fee though after January 31st. Just not $375 or whatever it is. So you have a year, one year and I am gonna say this again, even though I didn't say it. I've specifically asked about redoing the CF, redoing coursework going back to school, and he said to me with his lips, nope, retaking the Praxis covers all of that. And I said, Are you sure? And he said, Yeah. So I did specifically ask about those things. We believe they were probably a previous requirement, but they are not required anymore.
Cool. All right.
Okay, Robin asked, I am wondering who makes up the ASHA ethics and how can they sanction SLPs? When by government standards, you can't be both regulatory and certifying at the same time? That's a great question. Yeah.
So and this is it gets a little confusing because Asha requires that the cease to be a member. If you're a practicing SLP. And the ethics board, the ASHA ethics board is made up of a board of volunteers that changes all the time, they're always looking for volunteers. And you can't file a complaint against an SLP unless they are a member of Asha. So that's kind of how they get around like,
because it's the same thing with AOTA and APTA you can only file complaints against members.
But because you have to have your CCC to be a member, it's like a weird thing.
And do you know how those board members get chosen?
So
no, both going to go law right now. Let's find out in real time.
I mean, how does how does anybody become any kind of board member or leader at ASHA? Like,
I assume they get elected or chosen, they get appointed? I don't know that. I'm just they're appointed. Here we go. Okay. The board of ethics has 17 Asha certified members, including the chair and vice chair, the board meets in person three times a year, or is this the Yeah, the board of ethics, okay. They meet in person three times a year at the national office, winter, summer and fall. In the first three years of service, the members vote and adjudicate complaints in the final and fourth year of service. The members serve on the ethics education subcommittee developing educational programs and materials on ethics. The composition includes at least six audiologists with the CCC a and at least six SLPs with the CCC SLP. And to public members, including one chair and one Vice Chair, who both vote and require that at least four of the 12 members are practitioners current or within the past 10 years. That's a big gap. If you haven't practiced for nine and a half years, that's a big gap. And at least two of the four practitioners have school based experience. So you and I would both qualify for that.
Okay, are there any requirements like do two of them have to have medical experience are out for the school? I
know, the board of ethics has one subcommittee, the ethics education subcommittee. So the four year terms are staggered, and desired service qualifications experiences, these appointed, those appointed to the board of ethics are experienced Asha certified professionals as well as experienced Asha volunteers, practitioners, our preferred state licensing board experience is extremely helpful. In addition, new members are chosen in terms of suitability to engage in sensitive confidential work dealing with a variety of ethical, legal and professional disciplinary matters. It does not say who appoints them however, but there is a lawyer, a staff liaison, yes.
Catherine Meyer, Esquire, new one, okay. So but basically, like they're only able to govern their members. But because everybody has to have the CCC to be a member. Then they it's it's sort of like a balloon.
He used the ASHA reg regulates the entire field with their ethics board. But that's not true. So we've been receiving like threatening messages, and people saying things like, you should have your C's stripped away. Yeah, strip them. Go ahead. Like my, I'm stripping them myself.
And we happen to write not too long ago, she was, there was a ludicrous complaint filed against her, which by the way, the board does not have to take every complaint seriously, they choose to investigate or not, but they chose to investigate. There's a ludicrous complaint. And so she just said, You're not taking them, I quit. And she handed them back. She didn't renew, and she is a very successful SLP like opening the most bomb private practice right now. Like, it's gonna change the face of what we do in certain areas of this field. I'm very excited to see where this private practice goes. But I mean, she's licensed it, I would assume in multiple states. i That's an assumption, though. So you know, her handy bankers
to clarify, the complaint was mostly to do with her referring to herself as a swallow apologist. And also, the entire situation speaks to the deep, deep racism of our field,
versus how we treat black SLPs. But there's a whole backstory, I just wanted to give some context to like how ludicrous it was, it was And sorry, I was trying to protect her identity as much as possible by not giving those details. But yeah, um,
yeah, she might not be licensed in multiple states, she's kind of on the cusp of like, being, I don't know what state so you know, I was gonna say
like, if somebody wants if this, if these people who are threatening us, like want to file a complaint with ASHA, they can do that. But they can really only go after you will be the one holding the CCC. But they could also come to the Montana state licensing board and file a complaint, like anybody can file a complaint with state licensing boards, they also have ethics, processes. And so but then Montana would probably just be like, well, Megan's exercising her first amendment right. So freedom of speech to speak up against, you know, her about her personal opinions about an association. So and also, like, you can read the ethics violations of all ASHA members are available publicly online. And the vast majority, I want to say like 99% of them are situations where the state licensing board has filed or taken action, taking disciplinary action against an SLP, who's licensed in their state. And then that gets reported to Asha. And Ash is like, well, we're gonna do something about it, too.
Yeah, so we're gonna put your membership dollars to work, and we're good to just ride on the coattails of the work of others. Yeah,
so I guess like for people who are saying that the seas are required, because it holds everybody to a certain standard, I would say, the states are doing a fantastic job of holding everybody up to really high standards and ashes, not the one that's doing the work to investigate that they're just like,
alright, yeah, Megan. And I recently looked at all of those just to see. And yeah, it was, I might not have read as many as Megan, but every single one I read was the result of a state issue that got a lot of
like, a lot of them or do you eyes or money?
Rob? Yeah,
a lot of that gets reported to the state by colleagues, or supervisors or, or maybe the person who violated the rule is supervising somebody. So a lot of it just gets reported to the state. So what I'm trying to say like we do have really strong systems in place. Whereas if Asha, were to stop the CCC, it's not like there would be no avenue for reporting. Yes.
And that there the things that they do aren't always the same, either. So I I think I've talked about this before. I supervised a fellow once, who had two previous supervisors before me one was not neither were her fault, but one, she had quit the company so my fellow had started and two weeks later, her supervisor quit. So then they assigned her a new one. and her new one thought like she was committing fraud when in fact she wasn't. And the company did this whole like investigation. Well, it wasn't until the end that the end of her fellowship. So then I took over and at the end of her fellowship when in her in the state when she filed filed the state paperwork. And I think the fellowship paperwork with ASHA, she didn't have the signatures from the first two supervisors. And so they both both my fellow and the supervisor had to go sit in front of the board in Ohio. And they were found to like have infractions or whatever. So my fellow had to do extra CEUs or something, and the supervisor is never allowed to supervise in this state again.
But Asha, didn't do anything about it. Asha was basically like, add more time for those first two weeks when that other woman was gone. So she had to do like two extra weeks. And then the woman who the second one just signed everything. And so my so it's not like there was a slap on the hand. From Asha, it was just like, add the time and get the signatures, but they did have an infraction at the state level. So Asha doesn't always speak to I know, Asha would disagree with what I'm saying. But like, it's a huge conflict of interest to have a membership association run the certification product with an ethics board. Yeah. Because you could kind of argue the same thing with a OTA and APTA like they want the membership dollars, but at the same time, like it's different with ASHA, because not only is it the membership dollars, it's the certification stuff. And so they
like, are they really in place? Are they in a position to take appropriate action? When they're selling a product to somebody in the benefit from that person continuing to pay for their product? Do you have to go?
I do in a few minutes, we can finish up with really, I just I was messaging my husband to get the kids ready. Yeah.
So has anyone asked to acknowledge this movement? No. And they're not going to? Because why would they? Like they
Yes they have in a roundabout way? We were absolutely mess. It mentioned on the CEO Live Chat, where it was a social media. Yeah, it was. There's been a lot of chatter on social media lately. That was us. Hi, there. It's me. Hi. Were the problem. Yes, that was us that was acknowledged by the President. And then there was a board member early on, who reached out who was following what we were doing, and provided some information to us and, and was actively communicating with us and then decided that wasn't in her best interest anymore. And that's fine. We respect that. But yeah, the the board. Someone on the board has acknowledged us and the President acknowledged just in a roundabout way. Have they done anything? No.
I have not. But yes, they know that we are here.
Okay, and Emily asked, What are the pro CCC people saying I feel like they're just painfully uninformed. I know. Jeanette can probably speak to this more because they're more on Facebook which I am not on Facebook because conversations like that. But I love I love our boomers I'm there I'm helping them through I'm tagging them on things that they've been wonderful. They don't all understand or agree with what we're doing.
My career path, I guess I don't see myself retiring from academia in my 60 years as like this beloved professor, I think there's probably other things for me in the field. And while I enjoy teaching, you know, I go in five year chunks, like, let's get through five years reassess, see where I'm going. So, you know, there's that, that camp where they don't agree what we're doing, we're bucking the status quo. How dare us shame on us for forgiving, ill informed advice and, and such. They're the, they're never those people are never going to change their mind. They're either with us or they're not. And that's fine, that's fine. And we will talk to them too, we would we will have conversations we just might need to agree to disagree. The other side of this is folks like the one that I read earlier, where, you know, she has been an SLP for so long, that she understands
more people are gonna join as time goes on.
Yeah, there is a lot of uninformed people, sorry, I didn't say that very well. But like, when I when I get questions like or comments like, well, you know, national associations have to pay the bills, like they have to make money somehow. And it's like, yeah, they make money by doing things that benefit the profession. And then professionals are like, wow, that's really great. I'm going to support this association, not by coercing people to buy a certification so that they can get the job. And I would also say there's a cultural difference here, I think, you can see the divide, where a lot of SLPs have their identity in their occupation. And being having an ASHA CCC is such a part of their identity, that it's like we are asking them to strip away who they are. And I guess for me personally, like speech pathology is not my identity at all. I have so many other interests in life and so many other things that bring value and in shape my identity, and my job is not one of those things. And I think that's just a different thing for different people. But that's something that I've noticed too is like there's just a huge attachment to this CCC identity. And it's sort of like well, if we all have it, then we all get to
share in this community and identity, and then suddenly, if people are going to change the rules and like not everyone's going to have it. And that leaves some people feeling like insecure in their identity. And I think when people feel insecure in their identity, they start kind of lashing out and taking sides, and it becomes a black and white issue, rather than seeing that everybody has a right to make their own choice. Yeah, right. There's two more questions. One just came through Megan, and then there's one that I think you might be able to answer without me, because I have four more minutes. And then this is a heart out. But one just came through on Facebook. She wishes to remain anonymous, but I think it's, I want to squeeze it in. And I, of course, I just lost it.
I want to squeeze it in because I think is a great question. And that we do know the answer to and other people might have this answer as well. Um, this person asked my question is about walking away from RCCC. If our states and jobs allow this, how could this be impacted? If our state joins the interstate compact? And we know this answer? The see the interstate compact has currently made the statement that the CCC will not be required to join the compact to have to take advantage of the interstate compact. They have Didn't they say something to the effect? Megan of they can't require it?
No, I just heard at this point. They're not required. Okay.
I saw it in writing. So Megan, and I have been for many, many, many months, a part of a much larger group of people sitting in on meetings and kind of monitoring the progress of this compact, four year old. What's that?
Shout out to Meredith?
Yeah. Shout out to Meredith Harold. Yes, she's doing a great job organizing and leading this charge. But one of the purposes of this was really to monitor if they were going to require the CCC and I guess maybe it was an email to Meredith where I read it, but it was in writing, that it wouldn't be required. So there are still people monitoring that. And if they change it or try to sneak it in, you are going to hear people shouting about it for more than just us. But we will put it out there. So what were the little hitches here? Is there someone that I spoke with who is licensed in many states, like six states or something? And I had asked her her state is not yet opting into the compact. And I said, Well, can you just opt into the compact from one of the other states? So she looked into it and said, No, you have to be it's the license where your home address is. So it's where you're living. So living in I'm, I'm licensed in multiple states as well. I live in Ohio. So that is my primary license. And so all of the rules of Ohio currently would be what I am bound to. And so Ohio doesn't require this CCC. I wouldn't need it, even if I'm practicing in Virginia, where it's required through the interstate compact. Does that answer that question? Megan? Yeah. Okay. All right. Then I'm gonna, I'm gonna go. Megan has one more, one more to read that I wanted to be a part of the conversation, but I can always give my two cents at a later time. So thanks for I'm going to just do my little sign off because I can't leave without to do it. So thanks for joining us today. And I will, hopefully we'll be record recording again in a week. And I'm just gonna say thanks for fixing it by everybody. I would say for Megan.
Okay, so I'm gonna wrap it up with this final question from Kristin. She says I am a BCS s so board certified swallowing specialist, right? And look back at the requirements and the ASHA CCC is one. And this is just a whole can of worms conversation that again takes us back to the shitshow of certifications in our field. So we have to remember that no certifications are regulated by anybody like nobody's regulating who gets to have a certification with letters after your name or not like any business owner, any, any SLP could just come up with a certification and sell it to you and trademark the letters that go after your name. So it's not like Asha is deciding that this certification can go ahead and this one cannot although they are moving in, they're taking steps to try to put themselves in that position. And so what that means is like these board certified certifications that you can get, there's a handful of them. They're sort of quasi endorsed by Asha. And so of course they're going to require the CCS
because it's in ASHA's as best interest in like, from their perspective, they're thinking that they're protecting consumers by making sure that the CCC is required on top of this specialized certification.
And so but every everybody who offers the certification gets to kind of make up the rules as they go. So they can decide if they want the C's to be required or not. But I guarantee you for any of those board certifications of blah, blah, blah, that Asha quasi endorses that the CCC is going to be required. If Jeannette was here, we would be having a conversation of like, why do people get these certifications? Why? Why does this continue to happen? And we've talked about this before where it's a marketing thing, it gives people an edge, you can put it on your resume and put it on your website, if you're in private practice. And like, I get that, but my concern, and the reason that I don't have any certifications is because I think it just creates this rat race that we're all trapped in. And it's like, you know, you look at PTS have this issue where they have like, the whole alphabet behind their name. And like somehow, we're not laughing about how ridiculous this is to have so many letters after our needs. Like, I just don't think that certifications really get to ultimately define who has the specialized knowledge in a certain area. I think certifications define people who have the disposable income to pay for them. They define people who have the extra time in their lives to complete, you know, the hoops that you have to jump through and whatever to get them. I mean, it's like when you look at the practice test for speech pathology, like the questions are all over the place. And it's all over the full scope of speech pathology, and like everybody's so terrified to retake it, even though you've been practicing SLP for however many years, because the test doesn't actually mean that you know what you're doing, it just means that you know how to take the test. And maybe you bought a book on like all the hacks of how to take a test like praxis. And so I just don't. And there's so many things like that involved in certifications where you have to have completed the test and so many hours and all this stuff. And I think the idea behind certifications, is a good one in the sense that like, I think people started out like, I want to be able to differentiate that I have a separate skill set that other people don't have. And again, I would just argue there's other ways to do that than a certification on your resume, you can keep track yourself of how many 1000s of hours you've had, working with a certain population, you can start getting testimonials from the clients that you're working with, you can do this, even though you're even if you're employed by somebody, you can get permission to keep track of, you know, what people have to say about your services. And I just think that there are other ways to market ourselves and other ways to build our resumes, where you can list all of the classes that you've taken, all of the ways that you've invested. Have you hired a mentor to help you learn something like certifications? Yes, they're a quick way. They're clean and simple. They come with those letters after your name, and it's so nice. But again, like it just puts all of us in a position where it's like, okay, I need to get my state license. And then I need to get my CCC. And then I need to get XYZ certification. But now I need ABC certification and JFK certification. And it's like, when does it end? I'm not sure that ever really ends. And so then we create a system where we're just paying so much money renewing these stupid things. Just so we can look like we know what we're doing. And we've lost sight of actually knowing what we're doing and actually being passionate and actually finding innovative ways to learn. And also when you think about certifications, what happens is somebody is marketing and packaging a bunch of information, right? In any time you have somebody feeding SLPs information. Ultimately, what you're doing is you're restricting the number of people that are involved in defining that information. And so innovation goes down, diversity goes down because you have kind of this bottleneck, where in order to be perceived as you know, proficient or an expert in something you have to get the certification and that certification is only presenting a certain amount of information to people And so that's how we lose out on innovation in our field is because we think we have to know this specific information. And then it kind of drains the field of the need. And even the invitation to think differently and to think outside of the boxes of the certifications and the information that they gate keep from everybody. So that is my soapbox for the day, Chris. And I don't know if that answered your question. But basically, again, because Asha quaza endorses that certification and a handful of others they are going to require their certification for it. So I will stop talking. Thank you guys for tuning into this q&a episode. If you liked it, please let us know. Send us more questions. We'll do another episode. You can find us at fix SLP fix dot SLP on Instagram or fix slp.com You can email us at Team te A M at fix slp.com And we would love to hear from you anytime. And thanks for being here and thanks for fixing it. Bye everybody.
