Global Leaders’ Dialogue: Max Ren, Tim Draper, Kai-Fu Lee, Shouchen Zhang | SVIEF
10:59PM Sep 29, 2018
Okay, ladies and gentlemen, let's keep up the most anticipated global leaders dialogues. Now let's welcome the four gentlemen to back on the stage. Dr. Kai Fu Lee, please be seated.
And also Professor Shouchen Zhang, Tim Draper, Tim. And ladies and gentlemen, let's welcome the moderator of the session Max Ren, operations director and senior correspondent of Shanghai Media Group US. Okay. Have a great panel, gentlemen.
Good afternoon, ladies. gentlemen. Welcome to this very important global leadership dialogue. It's our honor to invite really three very innovative, very important VIP super guest to attend our dialogue. Let's give them a big clap to welcome them please.
And the first word I really want to say this now I started to worried about my dear friend Kai Fu's personal safety. He's replacing our job. Yeah, thank you for coming here. And really, it's it's great to know you are authoring your your, your your new book, right? Super AI, so I'm not
AI super powers. Right.
Are you the superpower? AI superpower?
No I think AI superpowers refers to United States and China.
Okay. Did you turn on the battery? No your yourself yourself? Oh, yeah. Then you really didn't look at the teleprompter. You're also on this one. And the professor Zhang. It's great to see you again this year. And thank you for achievement in science.
Yeah, yeah. Thank you.
Tim Draper. You are the super duper in the venture capital. I know you are you have a great achievement in the blockchain. So let me start with the first question with Tim Draper. A lot of people are talking about bitcoins and crypto currency. I know a lot of you invest in Bitcoin, right? So let's talk about you know, what do you think about the near future for Bitcoin in the next one or two years?
Okay. Well, I I never really understand what happens in the short term. Lot of what I focus on is is entrepreneurs and what they're going to be doing over the next 5 to 10 years. And that I believe is going to be the beginnings of a decentralized not just decentralized currency proliferating through the world. But also I think some of those technologies are going to start proliferating into different industries.
It's interesting, Kai Fu, that was terrific speech by the way. I actually for the last four, four or five years have been working or I've I've worked with a couple of people to do an expert system on venture capital that could replace me. So I'm trying to make this a really easy job. You know, it's a pretty easy job, right? But I want to make it a really easy job. And so I think I will be replaced. And so I don't know where you are going to stick venture capital on that chart, but I think we are we are replaceable too.
I know that AI is is changing the way the law works. For instance, with Bitcoin and all the associated technologies, you can now have a perfect ledger and a smart contract. Well, the perfect ledger replaces the accountant and the smart contract replaces the lawyer. I was thinking of creating a venture firm where I own I mean a venture fund a new fund I was going out to raise a new fund and and I was going to only take Bitcoin and only invest Bitcoin for stock or for coin and then have all those companies pay their employees and their suppliers with Bitcoin. If I were able to now the lawyers made that almost impossible. It's not in their best interest, but it was going to be very expensive. So but but if it were, I'd be able to do the entire business without an accountant or a lawyer.
Thank you, Tim. I know you are super duper in their Bitcoin, right? Because Bitcoin it's gradually started to impact our life. So next, Professor Zhang, I want to ask you, it's you mentioned about the ancient Chinese philosophy hood up from finish up with your latest scientific research. So if you can give us you know, how could this ancient Chinese philosophy affect your scientific research?
Well, I talked about different parts, the ancient Chinese philosophy, more applies to the blockchain part to see the world in this constant oscillation of centralization and decentralization. But when you actually see the Chinese history, and European history all goes through the cycle, but it's a little bit different.
The Chinese society goes through the cycle repeatedly that the next centralization looks not so different from the previous centralization. It's simply another emperor another dynasty. But when you look at European history, every time going through the cycle, there's a new idea coming out, for example, Roman Empire has the rule of law and United States has the constitution and so on.
So I think that same thing applies to the networking world. It's goes through the centralization and decentralization. But every time it's not a simple repetition, but going to the kind of the next level. And that is what's so exciting about it.
Thank you so much, Professor Zhang, Dr. Kai Fu, I know you your new book, right, super AI. So how long have you spend the time to author the book?
I wrote the book in about six months.
Six months, could you could you give us some more available, you know, that maybe 20 second about how important this book will change our life?
Well, every author always thinks his or her book is very important. I wrote the book thinking that as someone who's worked on AI research, 38 years ago, start, I started and then off and on worked at Apple, Microsoft, Google on AI, and now I invest in AI, I feel like I have a pretty unique perspective on the AI and the opportunities. And also in thinking about the opportunities and looking at our investments. As you said, some of them are taking jobs away,
I feel a sense of social responsibility to tell people that as AI advances, job displacement is a serious issue. And I think I thought very hard about various solutions. I looked at universal basic income, I don't think that's going to work. I don't really know what will work. But I do think generally, it's in the direction of creating more empathetic jobs, because there should be a large enough pool of them, if only we would care about them, pay more for them. And that can hopefully lead us to a good ending.
That was my thesis, for writing the book to let people know this is coming sooner than you think it should help change the way parents think about education for their kids, young people think about their jobs. And that was why what what I wanted to write. And then when I talked to my publisher, he said, Well, your book will only sell if you put China in the title.
So I decided to either China component, which was the first half of my talk. So this book, you buy one, get one free, first half is on China. Second half is on AI and the future of humanity. I know, you publish your article on the CNBC team, you want to add some?
Well, I was thinking, first of all that was that's really efficient, because it took me a year to write my book, which is how to be the startup hero. And by the way, I wrote it on an iPhone in airplanes. Wow. Every time I flew from here to China, I wrote my book,
maybe that's why it took so long. iPhones slow to type. Yeah,
Probably need it
must be a faster, faster thinker, clearly.
But the other thing I was thinking is the
when you say that they're, they're more
what's the word you you use for? For the people in Milan? Job displacement motive?
Well, yeah, empathetic answer. better jobs,
I actually think there's something else too. And that is that you
that jobs are going to get more abstracted. So as you know, as we've used
iPhones, our jobs have changed, we've been able to do more, we've been more flexible, we've been able to accomplish more convenience is happening for us. So we all have more time and I think that's what will happen with all jobs. They, you know, if you're a taxi driver, you might become a tour guide, or you might move to some other job that sort of helps these
you might watch the screens for many taxis. But But I believe in humans, and I believe in their ability to create and whenever I hear people saying Oh, AI is going to take all our jobs I think
Where's your creativity? There are what will I mean I always think what would you do if AI took your job well you would find something more creative and more innovative and more interesting to do because AI is now doing the rep the thing that you can replicate over and over so I I do feel like at the empathetic job is kind of an interesting concept but I also think there's an abstract job that none of us earth have thought of because we've we haven't seen what technology is going to do over the next five years so this decentralized world using Bitcoin instead of dollars or Bremen be all of that is going to sort of change the whole nature of the world but will will adapt we're going to get creative will come up with new ways to innovate
yes I know it's easier to say that encourage innovation and amount of human society but human has Western AI has intelligent right and in the beginning level when we all benefit from like AI dishwasher Kai Fu just mentioned and AI you know, low service AI was machine AI burger machine and the McDonnell also install the morning 200 ai or machine nationwide in the US but you know, way to reach to the next and the next level, you have a, you know,
ai banker, like this kind of thing is replacing a lot of employment in Japan. And we hope you know, we're going to have a policeman AI, you know, security guard, ai, ai, girlfriend, you know, Ai, a lot of things, you know, ai made house made a lot of things, right, it's in attacks,
what have you been buying? Lately,
I have been trying to look at the AI burger machine, but you know, like the last page from a mask and then talk about right about the AI security threat to the human society? Well, you know, Professor, you want to add some
Well first off I like to make a prediction, which may be somewhat different from my fellow panelists. So we talked about AI, body and AI mind, I will make a prediction that am mind will progress much, much faster than the AI body. So I think this idea for robots and so on, this will take a very long time. But I am mind will develop very fast. I also don't quite agree that AI is not created. In fact, in my talk, I just want to give the example. So that's it was viewed as the one of the greatest discovery of humanity, namely, the periodic table of elements. My AI program, discovered it in two minutes, so he could have creativity and could in a totally unsupervised fashion that even scientists should fear for their job.
So we're all going to have to come up with something else. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's good. I think. I think it's good. It's valuable, it forces you into out of your comfort zone and into something new. You know, I also think whenever people say, oh, AI is going to take all our job. Yeah, well, I mean, I don't think that potato farmer was upset when, when, when AI or I guess it was AI, the plow shows up suddenly, they don't have to get down on their knees and pull these things up. I think I think we're all better off with more technology, it just keeps making our lives easier.
Thank you. I know the this is the global leader, right? You guys are all leader in careful truly the other leader in AI and you are a leader in science, physics, and you are leader in capital ventures and a lot of venture capital prod project in the Silicon Valley. So your words your presentation were shocked the world or change the world, right, you know,
like a lot of training company, they are facing all of political challenge or policy torrents such as reason, you know, Facebook's data breach. And then mark talk about being grilled in a capital Capitol Hill. And also remember the reason the trade war between you know, a lot of nations and that caused lots of difficulty for those giant technology company or startup Do you think how your our leaders how to make some contribution or to overcome these obstacles?
Well, it's hard to. So there's two parts. One is the policy issues. One is these privacy issues. I think our job is
we know something's deeply because of our experience, and it's important for us to share that experience it so that's why I wrote the book, the book talks about a lot of facts and also a lot of points of view, which these two gentlemen may not agree fully. But it's important to bring these issues up because without experts bring up the issues. A lot of the debates if you just if you just close your eyes and open a magazine about AI, it's usually about dystopia or utopia or hype, right.
I think when experts are able to at least tell you facts and opinions, then I think it puts everybody at the higher level to understand the technologies. So I think I think disclosure is the first first step dealing with a lot of these issues are known in the privacy what There are all kinds of arguments there are arguments that I don't think people fully understand there's the privacy issue when the company sells or gives your data to another company like Facebook and Cambridge Analytica, that is very serious issue. There's our issues of how much do I trust Facebook, or Google or someone else to have of my data, that's another issue.
And, and I've also heard people say that in this world, where we have less privacy, we are more we behave more, we behave better, because we're being watched. So I think there's validity and all of these arguments, I we just don't know the answer. I think Europe took a pretty courageous step with GDPR, I think it's a terrible standard. But I think it's important to take a stand, and then hopefully, there'll be flexible to correct it. Otherwise, we'll just be debating these issues intellectually, let's see what governments can choose to do, once they see what types of things might might form a common values for its people.
You know, I like the idea that you, you own your own data, and then you can sell it to other organizations.
I, I also believe that the company should be able to acquire data that might be about you and use it in the way they want to use it. You know,
whenever I think what should government do, I think of the two two of the greatest leaders in the history of the world. And one is George Washington. One is Deng Xiaoping. The other one is Gorbachev, they pushed power away from themselves.
I wish our leaders today we're doing that they push power away into the hands of people and let the people figure out things more on their own. And if something becomes a big issue with many, many people, and they they're saying, Oh, my gosh, you know, as one group is really manipulating all of us, then, okay, then you you kind of bring in and do something about it. But I really think the best leaders are the ones that have the softest touch and they are not, they don't have their own ego in the game. They they push the power away, don't child ping, push the power away, said some of us will get rich. First, George Washington said, No, I don't want to be king. I want to be president. And and I didn't even I didn't even want that second term of office, I want out and
Gorbachev said, hey, look, the West is doing a better job. socialism doesn't work. Let's take down the wall. And let's let them come in, I think
and he sacrificed himself to do it. He knew politically he would fail because of that. So I think that we we need to look at our leaders a little bit more critically and say, gee, you know, you're calling us leaders. We're just trying to encourage people to do the right thing, do their own thing
thinking that's why you always supports the decentralization blockchain. Professor Zhang
Yeah. So I think some of the problem and mentioned we think it seemed the jurisdiction of the government can actually be solved by technology. So we know AI feeds on data, that is the new oil, how to protect data. So you're introduced these draconian measures, which I think is not the right thing to do. On the other hand, the trust issue associated with data can be solved by technology. But even more, I have this model in math with trust through math, actually, you can build up trust, you can both a computer my data and still not violate anything of my privacy. So this is a remarkable thing that or leaders should know that there are those tools available such as zero knowledge proof, homomorphic encryption, at that this will actually make the data marketplace really function properly.
Thank you. I know a lot of audience coming because of three, you know your name, right? So especially, I have a super beaten, they're sitting next to me, you know, in the past 30 years, the poverty and the richest, the gap has widened, not not narrowed, that widened. So, you know,
a lot of people, including the audience, they asking why, what is the secrets that 1% of population owns more than 90% of wealth, including you, you are a part of the 1% and two of you to how do you explain that, you know, the gap between either still in some country like in Sudan, and some, you know, South America, some region there's, they're nasty, unable to reach the internet. Oh, you know, poverty. So, you know, how the technology, you know,
innovation can bring the gap can narrow the gap Tim
So, yeah, I think that the politicians in the journalists are getting this wrong,
because somebody who is at the poverty line in the US today has a car probably to televisions a place to live food on the table, three meals a day, that was the richest of people in 1950,
that was the absolute riches to people and those were people in the US in China. They were sharing, you know, vegetables out of the Chinese hats, and, and
going around on bikes. We are all way better off because of all these incredible technologists, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Reed Hastings, and in China,
Robin Lee and, and from from Ali Baba, jack Ma, jack Ma. And and all of those, we are so much better off because of them. And I celebrate them. I say they should be extraordinarily wealthy, they should be incredibly rich, they should be able to do extraordinary things because they have done a lot for us.
On the other hand, they can only live one life they can only spend a certain amount of money themselves. So all the rest of it is invested back into society. And I think that that
politics of envy is dangerous, because what it does is it takes down our great leaders. I mean, the politicians are trying to take down Zuckerberg and then they're trying to take down tread Travis from Uber. Yeah, and they're trying, they should be saying, You are awesome. You are like a king. Yeah, you're wonderful. Thank you so much. Every time I get into an Uber, I think way to go. That was amazing.
Yes. And I think that that
society does not does not recognize how important those things were for us and ever. And I you know, I look up in the sky, and I say, Thank you, Steve Jobs. This has been an extraordinary experience as well as you and
for my iPhone and my iPad, and my computer and whatever else. I think society really needs to look at itself and take out something called schadenfreude. Which is there is where they say that
people get a little bit of a thrill by taking someone down a notch I think we should take get the same thrill from lifting people up a notch.
Well, thank you Tim, I think it's set to just, you know, today's news, thank you. And it's given them a big cup, you know, just latest news that
Tesla has of Elon Musk just stepped down as president from Tesla Moto, which is, you know, you just mentioned that, so, Professor Kai Fu what you want to add on to that topic.
So, I think I think I heartily agree with Tim, I think these people have done great things to the world. But I also think with greater success comes greater responsibilities. So the examples we see is like in Spider Man, spider man says, Yes, quoting my favorite, you have philosopher, you know, take Bill Gates, Warren Buffett as examples. I think they set up foundations. And I think they carry a great deal of social responsibility. I particularly like the Larry thinks letter from law about a year ago, where he talked about corporations, let's not focus on individuals, corporations should have more responsibilities than economic responsibilities. They're not just responsible to their shareholders, but also to the society and that He called on corporations to not wait for the government to solve all the problems,
I clearly think there are a number of problems coming up, we talked about privacy, security, job losses, and I don't think corporations, governments can solve all those problems. And I would hope those who have been fortunate to have become billionaires or multi billionaires will take that responsibility for themselves and their companies and take a little more time not just to generously share and give back the money. But think about what solutions they can create for their employees who may be becoming displace how they can help with a retraining and how they can give back, you know, three investments, like Tim said, but also through things that Bill Gates and Warren Buffett are doing.
Yeah, I agree with that. When you're in when you run a corporation, you are responsible for your shareholders first, your employees, your customers in the community, where you build where you build the business, I don't believe that you
have a responsibility to give back the money to society, it will go back into society, because you're you can invest it you can do whatever you want with it. I feel like and I also feel that that
they are providing the most to society through the business. They're running Bill Gates's Foundation, I mean, it's interesting, and they've done some interesting things. But he did the most through Microsoft that he made the most impact through Microsoft, he if he had just stayed on another five or 10 years with Microsoft, he may have done more for society than just giving away a bunch of his money. And I think that
some people don't, there's something they don't see by growing shareholder value. You are also growing Think about this, you and I make a deal well, we're both better off so every time you buy something from Apple or Microsoft or Netflix you're both better off so you're creating great value that way but then all of a sudden you're trying to solve you know, malaria in Africa you know nothing about malaria in Africa and you're just sort of in fact throwing that money away when it that money could be put much better to better use within that business so you know and and
like you'll start a nonprofit it's like hey we're going to go drill a well in the Congo
Terrific you go drill a well in the Congo Google has given all of the Congo the ability to drill a well all they have to do is look it up this is how you drill a well
Thank you Professor Zhang
Yeah, I think so. I very much agree with him I think throughout history what has done the greatest in lifting up poverty and improve human well being is to force of the market is the Invisible Hand of the market, we should help the society through an invisible hand rather than a visible hand. If you do it to visibly you create a dependency that is not in the end healthy for the society. But I'm very sorry I have another lecture to give and I already stayed down for another half an hour Actually, I have to go now.
Thank you for your time. Thank you for being with us with the for
We all do.
Thank you. We already do
Okay ladies and gentlemen, let's give it up all the gentleman for the great session.