#201 – Fat Loss, Increase Testosterone and Progesterone Production, Improve BDNF all in 10 Minutes a Day with with Scott Nelson
11:16PM Nov 19, 2019
Approximately one in five people suffer from auto immune disease. In autoimmune diseases a condition arising from an abnormal immune response to a normal body part. There are at least 80 types of autoimmune diseases the causes generally unknown. Some autoimmune diseases such as lupus running families, and certain cases may be triggered by infection or environmental factors. Some common diseases that are generally considered autoimmune include celiac disease, diabetes, type one, graves disease, inflammatory bowel disease, multiple sclerosis, psoriasis, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus and Hashi. motos, we recognize that you need some help if you are suffering from one of these autoimmune diseases. That is why we have created out therapeutic autoimmune program. The program is a 13 week program in which you'll have weekly checking calls which Your very own nutrition coach. Your nutrition coach will help you out with All Things nutrition and lifestyle to help you better your symptoms. If you are suffering from an autoimmune disease, you do not have to do it alone. The team at the chief laughter here to support you 100% of the way you can find out more about the therapeutic autoimmune program on our website, www dot the Chief live.com and look underneath the nutrition tab.
Guys What is up I just wanted to quickly let you know that we are now running free nutrition consults at www the chief life com you can book in for a quick 15 minute consult where we get to talk about all things nutrition, all things lifestyle with one of our fantastic nutrition coaches. So if that is something that you feel you are in need of, please jump across to WWW dot the Chief life.com can't wait to see you guys booking in
Welcome to the chief life Podcast,
where we deliver guests and knowledge from around the world
right to your ears, focusing on nutrition, exercise, health and wellness. So sit back,
relax, and enjoy the show.
Guys, welcome back to the G five Podcast. I am Matthias Turner and today I have Scott Nelson with me from Juve. Now Scotty I am very excited for this Juve is a light therapy company in light therapy is something that I've definitely delve down the rabbit hole of a little bit more in the last, I'd say the last few years and kind of insight around your infrared but also using things like human charger and trying to utilize the light and getting out and sunlight a lot more. And it's definitely something that I guess we've tried to educate a little bit more on is is light in general and how fake lights can be They can have a negative effect, but also in regards to like an infrared light, how much they can be a positive effect on the body. So, what I really like to know Scott is firstly, like who are you, mate? And what is juice? Exactly?
Yeah, yeah. Well, thanks for the introduction, that should be a fun conversation, especially if you've already like, semi touched on on light, in really the benefits or a potentially negative consequences of too much artificial light. I think your audience will or will enjoy like a little bit of a deeper a deeper dive on this on this subject. The subject matter because it's one of those underappreciated aspects to, to our to the overall health equation, or at least that's what we believe, anyway, here at you. But to answer your question, we make a red and near infrared light therapy devices here at Juve. We're one of the companies that sort of pioneered this concept of full body light therapy, primarily designed for in home use, although we do have a lot of practitioners and commercial settings and professional sports teams that are now using using our devices but they're kind of First and foremost, designed for in home Use because that's, that's where we believe light therapy is probably best used on a consistent basis anyway, but, but yeah, that's, that's who we are at least at a high level. But I've, you know, I've, in terms of like a little background on me, I've spent the better part of my professional career, you know, 15 plus years in the traditional medical device space. In fact, we were chatting a little bit beforehand, before we hit the record button that we started the company in Minneapolis, Minnesota. And that's sort of like the Silicon Valley of the medical device space. So that's the world I came from, which is there's a little bit of overlap with what we're doing a job because it is technically a medical device, but we serve a much different audience than than the than the the practitioners and consumers that I that I did I work with in my days, in my days in that in that world.
Yeah, typically. I mean, that's great. And I mean, typically, speaking like red lights before something like Jews have been found in things such as like beauty therapy rooms, they'll put a heat lamp on your Like a acupuncture room as well, but then going into things like you saunas, so it's kind of cool. You guys have taken the thing that is most effective and made it into a small functional device. I think that's really a great concept.
Yeah, and if for anyone that's that's listening to this and has heard of light therapy or LED therapy, most of the time, at least from our perspective is, is they've used it in at a spa right at a at a med spa with an aesthetician or some sort of skincare professional that's used it primarily for, for the for the skin related benefits. But that was one of the things you know, quite honestly that we we observed early on before we technically started the company is that most of the products available at the time were kind of being marketed and promoted primarily just for skin for skin health, and that's why they were kind of underpowered, very small in nature. But when you look at the clinical research around, you know, red and near infrared light therapy, the benefits are super wide ranging. In fact, there's thousands of published peer reviewed studies showcases A lot of the benefits that I'm sure we'll get into, and that's what we noticed. And so we kind of made it one of our, one of our sort of missions from from day one is to, is to really allocate a lot of resources towards education, because most people just, you know, they don't consider light part of the overall health equation, and they're certainly not aware that you know, red and near infrared light can be pretty powerful in terms of in terms of its its therapeutic benefits. So and, you know, that's it's just, you know, hopefully I think we can we can sort of help help people understand or get a little bit more more grasp on on the power of of light as the conversation unfolds here.
Yeah, I love that. That's awesome. So, I mean, let's maybe dive in to start with with talking about near infrared lights. And potentially, like, a lot of saunas will have, say, for instance, a far infrared light instead of a near infrared light. So let's talk about maybe what near infrared lights are and what's the difference between your far infrared and the near infrared.
And I think I think it's good to think about it within the context of sauna or heat based therapy, because the The light spectrum is actually really broad. And just to give you just to give everyone a better example, you know, we're talking about bright white and UV light in the, you know, to 300 nanometers range all the way to mid and far infrared, which are the wavelengths primarily found in a in a dry sauna, those will be 15 20,000 nanometers. So it's actually very, very broad. And the the parallel example I like to use is that is to compare light to kind of like like food. So everyone's familiar with, you know, various macronutrients and how our bodies respond biologically to proteins versus carbs versus fats. But if you kind of drill into those, some fats are better than others, right? Some carbohydrates are better than others. Like as an example we all know that eating a high glycemic carbohydrate late at night is not really a great recipe for for health success, really, for any type of success really, unless you're unless you're trying to unless you've got a sweet tooth, you know, but uh, but generally speaking, that's not that's not a great recipe for success. Well, the same kind of parallel holds true Light, the different wavelengths of light can have either positive or negative benefit on our health, especially at different times of day. And so as like going back to the, to the, to the sauna sort of example, sauna or heat based therapy can can be a really, really good therapy. But it's a completely different mechanism of action because in a dry sauna, those those devices are those those you know, the the saunas in and of themselves are delivering mid and far infrared wavelengths and mid and far infrared wavelengths do a great job at producing heat. But that's a much different mechanism of action and then red and near infrared light red and near infrared light on the head there and actually help our cells to produce more energy at the at the sort of the core, the core basis mechanism is for our cells to produce more ATP adenosine triphosphate and because of that core mechanism Are you know, we see a wide range of benefits everything from, you know, enhanced sexual performance to You know, more balanced, you know, testosterone in males and progesterone production and females to, to enhanced brain health through the reduction of symptoms that come from Alzheimer's and dementia, or or just better reaction times memory tension, etc. muscle recovery, pain relief, pain and info, pain relief and in joints inflammation relief. It's a really, really wide ranging, but it's all kind of it's all because of that core mechanism of action at a cellular level.
So I guess I'm on the probably something that people do really love to understand is what is like the minimum effective dose like, hey, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to get this thing. How much do I need to utilize it? And is that for instance, if you were to use the near infrared compared to a far infrared light? What's the minimum effective dose for using those things?
Yeah, I think it's, I think it's a great question. It all comes back to to, to really the the type of wavelength that your body is being exposed to so as an example, red versus near infrared, visible red light versus invisible near infrared. Really the only difference in terms of mechanism of action is really is penetration so red light does it red light is primarily absorbed in the in the superficial layers of our skin. That's why it's great for skin health for Increase Collagen Production in your in your skin tissue, the reduction of wrinkles and fine lines etc. Really great for skin health but because because you're kind of limited from a from a depth of penetration perspective, near infrared light, is actually quite often studied for deeper tissue benefits everything from from from bone health to faster muscle recovery to reduce joint pain and inflammation to brain to enhance cognitive function. And that's because near infrared light has the unique ability to penetrate pretty deep within our bodies. In fact, it can penetrate through bone, but the caveat is that the energy dissipates as it travels through through tissue and through bone. And so you need to have You need to be using a device that's powerful enough that that that will that will yield a clinically relevant dose of energy in a relatively short amount of time. So that kind of goes back to your question, what's the minimum effective dose, it probably depends on what you're using the device for. So with with skin benefits, with a high powered device, you really only need to use it for maybe two to three minutes a day. If you're looking for cognitive benefits or benefits related to bone health, or you know, the stimulation of bone growth as an example, you're going to need a higher power device and you're probably going to need to use it for a longer period of time. So with our products, specifically, as an example, if someone's just interested in skin skin benefits will typically recommend they use our products for about you know, three to five minutes or so. But if they're looking for deeper, deeper tissue benefits, we generally recommend doubling that time because the the energy the the applicable energy dose is that much higher and which is what you need for those those things. goes deep, deeper tissue benefits.
So let's say on a skin level, someone was just to go by themselves a red globe and put it in their regular side lamp light table side lamp. What what is that going to have any effect at all? Or is it going to need to have like that much time on the skin that it's just not going to affect you would like for it to be effective? Sorry.
Yeah, yeah, it's a great question and one that comes up quite a bit. Because you know, you can go you can look at it, you know, Amazon or any sort of local department store and pick up like a red, you know, infrared heat lamp as an example. But it's quite a bit different in a again, kind of going back to this food example, if I served you a big plate of food and I was like, here, this has all the proteins and carbs you need it and fats, proteins and carbs you need, you'd be like, well, I want to know a little bit more about what you're serving me like, what, how much protein right, how much? How many, how many carbohydrates, what type of carbohydrate, is it etc. And that's kind of what you need. That's the sort of approach you need to take when it comes to like, Just a basic red lamp as an example, you kind of need to understand, well, what what wavelengths? Is this really delivering? Is it delivering visible red wavelengths? Is it delivering full spectrum infrared wavelengths, because those types of differences matter, you know, if it take a heat lamp as an example, a basic heat lamp that you can pick up on Amazon or local department store, the wavelengths delivered from a heat lamp or actually pretty broad. In fact, most of them fall within the mid, the mid infrared spectrum, which is why they're great at producing heat, because that's the way those are the wavelengths they're delivering. And so understanding you know, the, the exact wavelengths that are that are that are coming from the device, as well as the irradiance that's, that's actually delivered from the device. That's sort of the the energy metric that's often that most, most light therapy, researchers refer to. Understanding those two things, you know, becomes pretty important because that's, that's sort of what you need to understand, you know, how far these wavelengths need to penetrate within my body and what's the dose Yeah, you know, what's the approximate dose or time I'm going to need to use this device in order to receive a biologically relevant result?
Yeah, I love that. That's really, really informative. And it just makes sense, right? It's very straightforward. That's great. Yeah, I mean, something that you keep talking about is a lot of the different benefits but something I'd love to dive into is the mental clarity of the BDNF and in use, in particular, so BDNF, meaning brain derived neurotrophic neurotrophic factor sorry what when it comes into that what are some of the studies showing around red light and I mean, this is something that we have told you about on previous podcast with Dr. Anthony j when we're talking about genetics, but I would love to kind of dive into what you guys are finding around that.
Yeah, I mean that you mentioned Dr. J. He's actually done some studies with our devices at may are near infrared devices studying this very specific thing you know, the impact of infrared light on on BDNF, but um, that's it. This is an interesting topic, this this kind of this this subject matter of brain Health, whether it's dealing with patients, or people that are suffering from some type of disorder like Alzheimer's, dementia, or whether just people are looking to kind of optimize their overall brain, kind of cognitive function, whether it's you know, through enhanced reaction times or better, better memory, attention, etc. And when you look at the research, most most, most photo medicine researchers suggest that the the synaptic Genesis or the neurogenesis that you that you see in patients or people that are that are using near infrared light, a lot of it is because BDNF, BDNF is stimulated. That's like the core that's the core mechanism that that's happening or one of the core mechanisms that that's happening when you apply near infrared light to you know, to your head. And so I think that's we're still very early and learning a little bit more about what's what's going on inside our brains this leading these kind of wide ranging cognitive benefits, but it appears that that's there's a direct correlation between near infrared lights To stimulate BDNF and more particularly that that the synaptic Genesis Are they the increase in sin in and synapses that, that you see with consistent use of near infrared light for for your for your brain.
That's really interesting. So when we're talking about these different sections of the boy like we talked about skin and obviously it's about applying the the light to that part of the body. Does it matter with this side of things when it comes to the mental state and the the BDNF production doesn't matter where the light is, I guess where it's injected or where it's taken in? Does it happen in the brain? Or can it will you get these benefits from say, having on your feet or having on your back?
Yeah, it's, it's, it's a great question. So So typically, you that whatever area of your body that you're trying to treat, you want the light to, to directly to directly penetrate or shine on that that yet that shine in that specific area. So as an example, if I'm if I'm just interested in cognitive benefits, I might use our little handheld device or a smaller device and just, you know, shine it directly on my, on my forehead or on, you know, on my, on my cranium as an example. So I that's definitely that that kind of concept definitely holds true. But one of the one of the things that we're learning more and more about is the systemic benefits that you get with full body applications. So let me give you an example. We just recently completed a small study with a group in in Minneapolis a group of, of kind of, I wouldn't I wouldn't say they're natural health practitioners but they kind of lean towards natural health. It's it's the principal investigator was Dr. Kelly give us and she leads the group there that personal cone, medical, and they used they used our jus solo product, that's what we refer to it as, but it's, it's kind of our entry level product into full body light therapy in it. You know, I'm a kind of an average size guys from about 510 maybe 511 on a good day and this device treats from about the top of my head Just below my grind. So you know, I don't know, to half to two thirds of my body. So not total full, total full body but close to it. So that's what these people both men and women were using in this study. And what we what we and we studied, we studied their hormone health, so testosterone production, and then and then progesterone in women. And we also looked at other other hormone biomarkers to make sure that there was a balance between testosterone and estrogen and then progesterone and extra dial and women. And what we found is that even with like, you know, semi full body therapy, both men and women saw dramatic increases in testosterone for men and then progesterone and women. And I think most dudes that are listening to this, understand the benefits that come from increased testosterone production, especially if it's natural, but for women, most women as they age, the progesterone, their progesterone levels decline just like they do for God, just like testosterone does for guys. And so women begin to rely more and more on In increased DHDHGA levels, to produce progesterone, or to convert to progesterone and, you know, anyway, long story short, we showcase that with with semi full body light therapy. Both men and women experienced pretty dramatic benefits when it came when it comes to, you know, hormone production and these were all people kind of in their in their middle age, you know, maybe 4555. Yeah, yeah. And so I say all that kind of getting into the weeds here a little bit but I say all that because it's it's becoming more and more clear that even exposing a significant area of your body you because of the systemic irradiation of of these healthy wavelengths of light. There's a lot of like, ancillary benefits that you wouldn't maybe normally think of. And so we're even seeing that that even just targeted treatment on your brain is leading to is leading to a lot of a lot of other hormone and sleep derived benefits. Just Just from You know application to your brain so I think there's there's more and more that we're that we're learning about when it comes to targeted treatment versus full body treatment. But it appears that you know, full body full body applications or full body radiation with these red in near infrared light wavelengths leads to some pretty profound, you know, systemic benefits throughout the rest of the body.
So, I mean, there's a few guys want to take this but having something good to point out is obviously you don't have to be doing handstands in the sonar if you want to be getting extra testosterone really, is what you're saying. You should be getting your bones close to the lot, although you probably would get better effects from it. But when it comes, yeah, yeah,
no, no, I was just gonna say I mean that that's exactly I mean, these guys in this study that I just referenced, they weren't shining their, you know, their, their, their, their package directly on the device. They were just, they were just standing in front of it. Now granted, yeah. certain portion of their, you know, their, their, their, their, their testicles were irradiated with with these words. wavelengths of light but it's not like they were you know, shining shining the device right right on their right on their their digital so so yeah I mean it's becoming pretty clear that just by you know full body radiation leads to some of these some of these more systemic hormonal hormonal benefits and what's interesting about that is there there was a there's an early study I think it get me super early I think if my memory serves me right it was from the 1800s actually know what call it's not really a study it was just reported reported benefits that men with their if they were exposed to full spectrum sunlight with their shirt off actually saw reported testosterone increases I'm pretty sure it was from the 1800s I'd have to go look it up specifically but but again, that kind of showcases the idea that you know, shining light, even just on your chest full spectrum sunlight on your chest can maybe lead to other hormonal benefits. So I think there's a lot more that we're going to continue to learn about this this topic but it's it's certainly compelling, to say the least.
So something else I wanted to touch on. There was The other side with the women and the progesterone like increasing that, in particular, in the mid age women, essentially we're going to start to see the benefit of delaying menopausal signs and symptoms from increasing progesterone right?
Yeah, yeah, you got it. Whether whether middle pauses completely delayed, or if you just see because because a lot of the there was, again, it was a pretty, pretty small female patient group. But they were split pretty evenly between pre menopausal perimenopausal right around menopause and then post menopausal and across the board, they all saw 100% of them saw a pretty dramatic increases in progesterone levels. So I think even regardless of kind of where if you're a female where you're at kind of in that in that life cycle of, of menopause, whether you know, pre Perrier post, it appears that these healthy wavelengths of light can do a pretty good job at naturally You know, naturally increasing your your progesterone levels are allowing your body to produce, you know, progesterone add pretty pretty naturally.
Yeah, I love that. And so in regards to amounts of production or increase production, what was the maybe some of the numbers that you were seeing people jump from in testosterone and progesterone?
Yeah, so in men, I can let me let me try to pull up some some specific numbers but at a high level, we tested both free or both total and free testosterone significant increases in both in men on average, it was anywhere from 20 to 40%. Over the over the course of over the course of 12 weeks. So pretty pretty, pretty remarkable. increases and then in women, it was even higher. So progesterone increases of anywhere from 50 to 200%. Increases in women have their their progesterone levels hundred 50 to 200%. Yeah, so pretty. We're talking about really, really compelling. Again, I want to I want to the caveat here is it was a relatively small patient group I think, I think we were at close to 15 men and women, but across the board, everyone saw these types of increases. So it like, again, it was a small, small group, but but the data is like really, really compelling. And it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, um, it's to say the least we're going deeper on this on this on this topic, you know, with with more bigger, bigger participant, the bigger study sizes, studying more and more hormone markers to really get a feel for, you know, to get a better feel for what type what type of results people can expect when they're consistently using light therapy.
Yeah, that's incredible. I mean, the benefits from that alone, if you were to get 20% more production of testosterone, whether it be feet free or total, you're going to feel a hell of a lot better just from that. And I mean, no doubt. 1212 weeks is obviously a chunk of time, but really, that's a minimum amount of time in regards to what your whole life span is. What was the cycle you're going through with these With these individuals, the 15 individually what was the thing each day
yesterday they were instructed to use it daily so once a day which is what they really followed our general kind of general wellness kind of treatment guidelines so is once a day and then they were they were using it for 10 minutes 10 minutes at a time so 10 minutes a day every day for 12 weeks and so and again compliance likely wasn't perfect right these are self reported self report self reported self reported usage so there I imagine there was you know, days you know, days of the week that people didn't use the use the therapy but but yeah, the the it wasn't much to say the least right I mean, every everyone has has has 10 minutes in their day to use to use to light and I guess kind of harkening back to our the way we started out this conversation. You can see as you as you learn more about some of these interesting benefits, whether it's cognitive enhancements or hormonal hormonal You know, hormone production and balanced hormones, it's becoming more and more clear that light is a is a pretty important factor, you know, to our overall health and we we would be would be good or wise to pay more attention to it.
Yeah definitely. That's absolutely insane I mean realistically 10 minutes to sit in front of a lot or stand in front of the light is nothing like how often do people watch a 30 minute show know what all it takes is turning that light on and standing nice and close to it Really?
Right right and even if you I mean even if you're like your budget conscious and you don't want to go you don't want to you know take the next step and invest in a light therapy device. You know, if you're if you live in a you know, in a in a location that gets a decent amount of sun, whether it's Australia, whether it's Southern California where I'm at, you know, just just getting outside a little bit more often, you know, I mean you're not most of the time you're probably not going to be able to do like naked full body light therapy but you know, but you know, taking your shirt off, you know, getting getting some nice exposure, even if it's only you know, 1015 minutes a day is you know, can can lead There's some pretty, pretty profound benefits is massive. Yeah,
I mean, here in Australia in particular, like where I live in Brisbane, there's definitely a lot of health conscious people it might be just in the locations I'm living in, because there's definitely a lot of unhealthy conscious people as well. And with that health conscious population, I definitely find that clothing seems to be getting less and less, which I think is actually really really beneficial in regards to how much we extra like how much extra sunlight we're getting in when we are outdoors, which I actually think is great like people complain about maybe people walking around and single it's and walking around in short shorts, but at the same time, I think it's great because we started off as such a we are such a sun cautious community here in Australia in particular the world in general is but it's like that one time of day where you see people getting out and getting in in sunlight and it's almost like getting I don't know how to say it's like incidental lot without them meaning to all of a sudden again, this big intake, which is excellent
Right, right. Yeah, no. And I and I completely agree with like most of you know, most of our, our culture's whether it's in Australia or here in the US, they're very subconscious, right? You know, there's this kind of this misconception that the sun is the sun can cause cancer. And so you need to protect yourself at all costs. And it's like, well, there's a certain amount of truth to that. But a lot of that's rooted in the fact that we just don't get enough light period. Most of us don't, in fact, you know, there's a pretty well known stat, at least here in here in the in the US that Americans now spend 93% of our lives indoors. And so we don't get nearly enough natural light. And then when we do, it's like, you know, go to the beach on a Saturday with the kids once a week, you know, maybe maybe once a week, twice, you know, twice a month, and then get burned. You know, go go and midday sound that you just get burned. It looks like Well, of course, that's not that's not a great, that's not a great recipe, right? Never like very little natural sunlight exposure. And then when you do, it's like peak sun and you're out there for two, three hours and then you're up Burn, you know, you get a skin burn? Well, yeah, that's not that's not great. But if you're spending, you know, 10 1520 minutes a day, outdoors on a consistent basis, you know, there's a lot of there's a lot of underappreciated benefits to just, you know, full spectrum of getting enough full, full spectrum sunlight, you know, that the hard part about that is, is, is most people that are listening to this don't live in, you know, you know, Brisbane or don't live in, you know, Southern California where you get a lot of natural sunlight there in climates, like, like, like I was in previously in Minnesota, where it's like, it's dark for, you know, seven, eight months of the year and cold and you can't, it's hard to get enough natural sunlight. So, you know, similar to what you do with any site, any type of you know, supplement, whether it's a vitamin D supplement or a multivitamin, you know, investing in a light therapy therapy device is is a good next step to sort of supplementing you know, your light diet, so to speak.
Yeah, definitely. And I mean, obviously, we're talking about the cognitive functioning before but also just in regards to seeing people in populations that get out in the sunlight and how much happier they are compared to those that don't. There's a big difference. There's most a difference in just how much the sun know just how much full spectrum light can really uplift an individual. Have you guys kind of done studies around stress or I guess depression in regards to what what these lights have been able to do to people?
We've done it we've done a little bit, but it's nothing like the hormone study I referenced previously. We have there's a practitioner, there's a PhD, he's both a clinician Anna Anna and a researcher at UCLA here in Southern California that's largely largely treats patients with some sort of depressive disorders, whether they suffer from some something semi mild, like, like sad or seasonal affective disorder to, you know, clinically, clinically symptomatic, you know, depression. He's experimented quite a bit with with our devices and using Redis Near Infrared light, in fact, we actually just posted an article on this very topic recently where he's quoted in it, and, you know, in conjunction with a lot of a lot of the more mainstream modalities that he uses as a practitioner, when when, when exposing his his his patients to read a near infrared light therapy, he saw dramatic results. And again, it was, you know, he wasn't using red near infrared light alone, but in conjunction with some of these other modalities, he just saw dramatic, you know, much more dramatic and faster results with his patients. So this is a topic that we're, we're super interested in exploring in more detail. In fact, that article that I referenced on our on our site that speaks to the benefits of using red and near infrared light for, for seasonal depression, it's it's received a ton of interest. And it may be just because the time of year you know, we're recording this in early November and the days at least here in America, they start to get a lot shorter, less and less sunlight, especially if you're in a more northern climate. Anyway, and so I think people are just that much more you're exposed to it, they're much more cognizant of the fact that wow, I'm not the sun's gone, you know, and I feel different and I'm a little bit more I don't feel as great. And so I think that really, really speaks to that the power of sun both from a therapeutic standpoint, but also just from a from an emotional standpoint, you know, and then the the increase in serotonin and, you know, cortisol production at the right time of day, any way that you know, that you can that can be had from just, you know, more natural light exposure.
Yeah, yeah, that's incredible. That's a I think you could you could just see it, like I was saying before you can, you can just see it based on exactly what you just said, from winter to summer, how much happier people are Oh, I hate to bang on them. But English can be compared to say the Australians like that just a mobi country compared to not all of them. But in general, that's probably gonna, I'm putting my foot but it's like, it's almost like the I don't know the persona that they put off because they're there in a miserable environment almost because of the the lack of sunlight, how much difference it makes when they do get away from that environment or when they're having incredibly good weather. I was over in Manchester last year, and it was so sunny and so good. And everyone was out in that there was a comment that everyone's making on the sun and how good it was, and oh my god, we haven't had days like this for ages. And it was it was generally although weather is a very typical talking point. It was typically a great thing. It wasn't a bad thing at all.
Yeah, no doubt. In fact, we we recently spent some time in, in in New York a few weeks ago, and, you know, granted New York's a fun city to visit but, you know, this time of year and we're kind of late late fall, it's like gray skies, you know, cold and gray skies and almost no sun and it's like, you know, we then flew back to Southern California. It's like a breath of, you know, a breath of fresh air, so to speak, you know, kind of, kind of literally, but But really more more so pertaining to the just a significant amount of sunlight that you get and what that what that means kind of for your overall emotion so completely understand where you're coming from. And in fact, the maybe the title to this podcast should be you know something like if you're in the UK, you know why mo BY mopey, English folks need to listen to this podcast you don't I mean,
something that you've got on the website is around fat loss and light and something that we talked to Dr. JACK crews about previously and this kind of separate subjects almost but he talks about not having to monitor necessarily your carbohydrate intake based on the amount of time that you're spending in the sunlight. And if you get more sun time that your reduction your your use for carbs increases and you can utilize them a lot more beneficially than if you were to not use the sun at all. So if you're if you're someone who typically is inside a lot not getting much light, that you should be on a low carbohydrate diet Compared to someone who is able to get out in the sun, they can also get a lot more carbs in his his theory around it. And he's got a lot of studies on that. And he kind of dives deep into it. But some of you guys have is based around fat loss and the Juve line. So I'd love to kind of know a little bit more insight to that as to what what have you guys seen around the use of the Jewish light and how it works for fat loss?
Yeah, this is an interesting topic. I think the to answer that answer your answer that question. And again, some of some of this might be a little it might be considered sort of hypothetical. But I think there's some some interesting evidence that suggests two things really going on. One wouldn't be the increase in metabolic activity. Because of that core mechanism of action, your cells, basically any cell throughout your body that has a mitochondria, most most of our sales do. They are producing more energy. And so Dr. Kelly, give us who I mentioned was the principal investigator in that in that clinical that hormone related clinical study I referenced earlier. She She it's her it's her belief That you get less metabolic crowding. So in essence at the mitochondrial site or intracellular level, think of it like a like traffic on a highway, you know, when we're not when our bodies when we're not doing intermittent fasting or we're, we're feeding too often there there are our mitochondria don't know what to do with all of this all of this sort of traffic so to speak, right with a like an overabundance of insulin to tap in and tap into an overabundance of glycogen to tap into etc. And so you get this metabolic crowding, so to speak or less efficiency and so I think it's becoming more and more clear that red and near infrared light exposure leads to less metabolic crowding, because because of these waves, the red in the air and for lights in near infrared lights ability to stimulate your mitochondria to producing more, more and more energy within the within the the electron transport chain in during the fourth phase is cellular respiration. I think that's one aspect sort of at a high level just increased metabolic efficiency. And the other the other thing that appears to be true with with some of the, the double the double blind placebo controlled randomized studies that showcase the benefit that the fat loss benefits or body contouring benefits that come from, from red light therapy is that these wavelengths of light actually appear to almost create more porous, a more porous membrane in adipose in the cells of adipose tissue. So you're basically your, your fat cells become more porous, and, and they actually shrink. So they almost leach out more, more, more fluid. And so you get kind of this shrinkage effect with your with your fat, you know, in your fat tissue. And so there's actually some really, really nice clinical well structured clinical studies that showcase that mechanism of action. But I think either way, whether it's kind of just overall metabolic efficiency, or kind of more porous fat cells, it seems pretty clear that that's kind of one of those ancillary benefits that you get from it. You know, from read in near infrared light therapy is just, you know, less, less less fat, which, you know, doesn't, you know, doesn't doesn't, you know, it's certainly a nice nice benefit for for probably most people including myself listening,
listening in here one
Most people can benefit from but
what's what's interesting about that is is like we hear that quite a bit with with a lot of our customers, I mean, they'll they'll might they might buy light therapy because they're interested in primarily interested in skin health or maybe they're, they're an athlete, and they're primarily interested in just better faster muscle recovery as an example. But after using the therapy consistently, consistently, they'll notice some of these added benefits, whether it's increased, increased in the quality of their sleep, or better kind of libido through the increased testosterone production or what we just mentioned, you know, they're just, they're losing weight, you know, at a faster clip than they were previously. And so, I think really, that that really speaks to just a wide ranging benefits that, that you get from reading near infrared light therapy, because of that core mechanism of action, which is basically inducing, you know, more more cellular energy allowing your cells to function better at at the highest of levels.
So because of that, the better cellular function is, that's why we see a high level of recovery when it comes to muscle or is it because of the reduced reduction in inflammation? Or is it a mix of all all of the above?
I think it's I think it's both and, you know, there's speaking of inflammation as example, it's becoming more and more clear that that's another mechanism when it comes to specifically near infrared light. It's, in fact one of the one of the leading photo medicine or light therapy researchers, his name is Dr. Ronnie and his in his lab, he's he's showcasing the the ability of near infrared light to stimulate TGF one beta which is a sign it's part of it's a it's a sign of kind. That's responsible for a number of things related to immune function. And because of that, because of the stimulation of that TGF one beta, you know, we get this, this, this, this, this really nice immune response, which helps our bodies naturally, you know, fight off inflammation or reduce inflammation. So I think there's, there's that aspect, there's the there's the mechanism that we that we touched on earlier, through, you know, the ability of light therapy to stimulate metabolic increases in energy. So in any any way, there's, there's a couple, there's a couple of core different mechanisms that are going on. But regardless, they're all leading to some really, really profound benefits.
Yeah, it's insane. That's super cool. I mean, we've kind of done a very basic cover over of a lot of the, the different benefits, I guess, of using red or near infrared lights. Is there anything else that we haven't really touched on? Like, I mean, joint pain is one thing that I guess we kind of covered on just them with inflammation, but what Maybe let's talk about some some case studies that you guys have have, whether it be anecdotal, actually evidence base when it comes to people with arthritis and using something like this for their joints.
Yeah, I mean, joint pain is one. I mean, there's, there's, there's like some of these emerging benefit categories, things like brain health, hormonal health, etc, that that were that there's been there's been a lot of studies that have been that have been published over the last maybe two to three years. But then there's some other kind of categorical benefits, where there's just a profound amount of science and clinical evidence that supports the supports, you know, the use of red in near infrared light therapy for some of these, these areas. One is skin health, demonstrably evidence there. And then another one would be joint pain and inflammation tons and tons of studies that support the reduction of a joint pain and inflammation primarily from our some arthritis or whether it's arthritis or some other form of arthritis and that that I think is we're we're learning more and more about the mechanism mechanism of action but it's becoming pretty clear that through near like red and more specifically near infrared light have a unique ability to stimulate our immune function and, and and help a transition from something called in one phenotype to an MM to phenotype which is, which is more it's more vague acidic is the technical term, but it's basically your immune system is stronger, and its ability to kind of fight off toxins and, and other other other chronic types of chronic inflammation. So pretty, pretty, pretty compelling evidence that that, without a doubt read in near infrared light can can lead to some really, really nice benefits when it comes to reducing joint pain and inflammation.
Yeah, I love that. That's awesome. When it comes to your actual devices, like I mean, there's quite a few different devices you guys have now created. What did you start with and where did it kinda, I guess in your thought as a producer of the products like why What made you think, Hey, we need to go this route or that route? What What does maybe some of the the different routes you've taken with it?
Yeah, yeah. And I think this probably speaks to where we saw the gaps in the market when we first before we even started you have I mean, we didn't just like most, you know, our story is kind of similar to a lot of a lot of startups in that you we there appear to be a need, you know, and then some gaps in the market, but we didn't didn't necessarily, you know, intend to start a company. But having said that, you know, our it was actually my wife and her sister that had purchased red light therapy packages at a local spa and Minneapolis, this was back in early 2015. And they saw really good results primarily related to related to their skin health. And the only caveat is that they they had to go they went consistently they went like four or five times a week for you know, eight to 10 weeks. And that's just tough to do. It's not budget friendly by any stretch of the imagination. It's certainly not convenient either. So they were looking for You know, a device that they could use at home, ideally, something that was that was, you know, able to treat their full body, just like they received in that in that spa. But most of the products at the time were really small and, and quite quite a few of them are the majority of them were underpowered. So in essence, what that meant for the end user is that you're limited to, you know, treating a pretty small area of your body, you know, the most of that most of these, you know, handheld devices are primarily geared for skin health. And then also because they were underpowered, it meant you have to use them for a really long period of time. I mean, we're talking, you know, probably 20 minutes on the low in upwards of, you know, you know, 45 to 60 minutes in order to receive a clinically relevant dose of energy. And so we thought, Hmm, that's interesting, because no one not a lot of people are going to commit that, that that amount of time and then, you know, using a, you know, a therapy on a on a daily basis and then there secondarily to that, you know, if these wavelengths are been beneficial for a target area, whether it's a sore knee or sore, sore joints or Maybe just for for, you know, facial skin related benefits. Like it seems that full body application would be even better, right, you'd be delivering these really healthy wavelengths of light to much broader, much broader treatment areas. And so that was kind of our core hypothesis. And that that led us to actually launch our first our first full body device and now this this kind of lineup of full body devices is modular. And so what that means is that you can start with kind of a smaller one and then build onto it over time and they kind of connect together like Lego blocks so to speak. So they connect together physically electronically. So and that kind of fits into like our overall like thesis as a company's at full body light therapy is ideal. But not everyone has the funds to go do forked out thousands of dollars for a big system right away so you can start small and then and then kind of go bigger over time. And, and we're seeing a lot of people do that, you know, they're starting out with smaller devices, getting their feet wet, really seeing a lot of benefits and then kind of adding to their system over time. And so, that that's our that's our kind of our bread and butter. We since have launched what we call the juice go which is a nice little kind of portable convenient travel option A lot of people use it just in other rooms of their their home but it's a it's a it's a targeted handheld device that's completely wireless and rechargeable so you can it's really very very easy to use while you're you know watching a movie or show at night and just kind of getting a light therapy treatment and
so with the Judah This is the one that have probably the most questions around what sort of like charge right does it take like how long does it take to charge what's your battery life on it?
Yeah, yeah to charge for the full battery life is it takes about 60 minutes it's about an hour so and you'll get our general treatment recommendation with the goes the same as our larger devices because the power is the same. Even though it's it's it's it's completely wireless rechargeable delivers the same sort of therapeutic energy as our larger or larger systems but it's about a 10 minute treatment and you'll get off off one charge will get anywhere from seven to eight treatments off of one charge before you have to charges against it's kind of a pretty nice pretty nice battery life
and so what what would be apart from the the side effects of the time I guess we're the get people who start with the juice go who just do say seven treatments on themself of a night and then they recharge it and go again for the next day like obviously they're trying to get the the multiple benefits from using it in different locations in the body compared to say use using one large device is that something that happens quite a lot like you said people just waiting their feet
yeah that Yeah, I that's a little bit of an extreme example in the sense that most most of our customers don't if they're by if they're purchasing the Jews go it's typically for a more targeted kind of option. It's pretty varied there'll be a lot of people will purchase it just just to shine on their face for skin benefits. Others will you know, will use it for like for cognitive function, you know, like my wife is a great example show us our near near infrared version, just in bed at night and just try to shine right on her forehead, you know, for, you know, seven, eight minutes at night and get Get a nice clinically relevant dose of energy just before bed in fact, Dr. Michael Hamlin is arguably one of the most you know profound light therapy researchers in the world one of your one of your English mates right that doesn't get enough sun over the UK yeah that's one of his favorite ways to use light therapy is you know, Shine Shine near infrared device right on right on his forehead at night. So, so yeah, most of our most of our customers that purchase to go is, is usually for targeted treatments like that. But but a lot of them see such such great health results that they'll go then they'll they'll that's kind of their guess it's, it allows you to get kind of your feet wet with a more entry level at a more entry level price point. But then if you like to therapy, and enjoy the benefits, you can kind of step into a more you know one of the one of the full body modular devices at a point
that you guys have the red versus the near infrared, in the go. So for instance, always looking for all the benefits, the best to go for the near infrared over the red
I that that's what I mean, if you want more bang for your buck, I would tend to, I would tend to, you know, go with the near infrared option, that that's, that's the only downside to our juice go product is it's either or it's not both. So you have to kind of choose all red or choose the all near infrared. With our larger modular devices, you get both wavelengths, and you have the option of you know, turning both of them on at the same time or flipping back and forth. But yeah, if you're if you're just limited to like the Juve go as an example, that would be the that would be probably, you're probably going to get more bang for your buck with the near infrared version, just because it's going to be able to treat a greater variety of tissue types.
Yeah, yeah, that's an incredible story. I think that's a that's a really good kind of insight, an overview of what the product is, and I think what the benefits the listeners can expect to get from it. What is there anything that you'd like to touch on before we do wrap things up? Is there anything more that you'd like to add to the conversation that you feel that we haven't touched on that we should have?
Yeah, I mean, the only thing that I'd like to probably wrap up the commercial With is is is just if you're if you're new to this this aspect of of light it fitting into the kind of the overall health equation or being a part of the health equation just like food is and just like training or fitness is and getting getting enough sleep all important aspects and if you're new to this topic, I would say you don't don't you don't necessarily have to like go out and buy a light therapy device you know, just be more you know, the easy and free step is just be more cognizant of your light exposure in general your natural light exposure and try to get more of that sunlight you know that that would be you know, it's totally free. So it's it's, you know, is one of the one of the physicians that we like to work with his name is Dr. RS suppiah trains a lot of the pros on the on the PGA and ATP tours. He calls it free free medicine. And I think that's, that's a great, great description. It's like you know, natural sunlight is is free medicine and so just be more cognizant of that. And then if you you know, if you, you know, if you're just if you're in an area or you have a lifestyle that just doesn't allow you to get enough natural light then then maybe You should consider a light therapy device just like you would a multivitamin. So that's probably the way I'd like to kind of sum up the, you know, sum it up for, you know, the the listeners is, you know, step one is just be more cognizant of it. And then step two is if you don't, if you just can't get enough natural light then maybe, maybe take a look at a light therapy device.
That's great. That's awesome. Like I mean, you pretty much just told you a lot of people out of potentially buying your product because you just can't outside of it. But you know what, that there is a there's a an overwhelming amount of people just need that. What is it it's like the instant gratification from doing something so using a lot like this is perfect. And like you said, obviously there is a host of benefits that you get from using the light when it's in that in that close proximity and using it for say 10 minutes a day, but it's great that as a as a production, I guess developer, you've just gone and said that as well because it means that it makes me trust in your product a lot more as well. I guess I'm trying to say because you already Hey like you don't have to buy this get outside and do it but also if you don't need like if you don't have the light then use this instead or if you don't have the ability to get outside as often then use this as well i think that's great.
Yeah, yeah I had a percent believe that like this shouldn't be a displacement to natural sunlight in the least bad it's just like I'm the perfect example. We were headquartered here in Southern California get a lot of really nice you know, natural sunlight throughout the year fortunately, but you know, I've got I've got kids were busy. It's just you know, sometimes it's just it's easier to go stand in front of a full body device for 10 minutes you know what I mean? So So yeah, it just kind of all depends on on on your lifestyle but don't don't under appreciate you know, that the free medicine is Doctor Dr. RI likes to say so, you know, if you're, if you're budget conscious or you know, don't want to don't want to mess around with light therapy device. Definitely don't definitely consider the sunlight as your, you know, as your go to go to option.
Let's maybe just to wrap Because a lot of our people that we do have as listeners a lot of them are athletes and so something I'd love to kind of touch into is maybe some of the athletes studies that you guys have done or most of the the athletes that you guys are working with and some of the benefits that they're maybe seeing from from the devices and what was their schedule? Is it like hey just before game time go and use it or is it just a regular schedule every day?
Yeah, what did this concept of like recovery is really really picking up steam in the kind of the professional sports ranks at least at least here in the in the in the US and we're likely not to not able to announce anything as of right now but there's a pretty big sports franchise actually there in Australia that will likely be doing some some clinical study related work that that will be pretty pretty fun to to collaborate with in the in the future but there's no doubt I mean, it's it's it's really picking up picking up steam and and more and more kind of leading edge trainers, sports positions, really Leading Edge trainers are realizing that light is exactly what we just talked about. It's part of the overall health equation and so many people just under appreciate it. And so athletes that are kind of on that on that cutting edge and we've got a lot of them that are you know, pretty pretty well known athletes that are that are using our full body devices, they're there they're experiencing all the same benefits that we we just we just mentioned but one of the probably the one the ones that that stands out the most is most distinct is enhanced sleep quality across the board. You know it's in I think for any competitive person, especially an athlete you know, they find it hard to shift into you know, go go from a sympathetic to a parasympathetic state you know, to relax to shut your body off, shut your mind off and relax and read in near infrared light therapy have that ability to shift you know, shift your help help that that that transition, become a lot more easy that that transition that shift from from a sympathetic to a parasympathetic, sympathetic state and there's plenty of published clinical evidence That actually should suggest that as well and the sleep the sleep quality that you need sleep quality that you get from from consistent red and near infrared light exposure. So that's probably the biggest thing that stands out when I think when I think about a lot of the professional athletes that are that are using our devices now is is it's it's they're using it primarily for enhanced recovery they're paying a lot more attention to that. And one of the major benefits that are seeing is it just better overall sleep
differ for overall sleep based on when they use the device or is it gonna it's gonna happen no matter what.
So that that's it that's a super interesting topic and and that this is something that comes up with with that it said it's something that comes up with when people are really starting to think about how to how to best use this type of therapy and their daily routine and and what I mean by that is a lot a lot of people that are thinking about using red in near infrared light for enhanced sleep. They're thinking if if it If I use it in the morning, am I just going to feel sleepy then because of the increase melatonin production and interesting enough, our bodies are incredibly smart, right? So even if we're allowing our bodies to produce more melatonin in the morning, as long as our circadian rhythm isn't disrupted by too much blue light exposure as an example at night, our bodies will are, they're smart, and they will release that melatonin at the right time of day leading to better sleep quality. So you kind of it doesn't really matter whether you use it in the morning, during mid day or the evening, you'll you'll likely reap the same type of the same types of results. The only caveat that I'd say is that if you're if you're kind of into ancestral health, and kind of understand, you know how our bodies have have adapted over time, it probably makes them and again, this is theoretical, but it probably makes the most sense to us read in near infrared light therapy in the morning or the evening, primarily because it mimics the natural sunrise and sunset and Redis near infrared wavelengths of light are most prevalent in in full spectrum sunlight in the morning and in the evening or in the sunrise in the sunset. So it probably makes more sense to, to kind of match your, your, your circadian kind of rhythm with the with the morning sunrise in the in the evening sunset, but again, that's kinda it's kind of hypothetical. And RR general advice is, you know, if you're using this type of therapy, just try to use it consistently, you know, regardless of the time of day, but if you really want to optimize, probably do it in the morning or the evening.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. That's awesome. Well, Scott, I think that's a great place to wrap man, that's been so insightful. And obviously you are very passionate about light and light therapy and what you guys have as a device and what you've been able to provide the world with, which is incredible. So I mean, where can people follow along? Where can people get the product and Is it is it I guess, social platforms they can follow along long with as well?
Yeah, I mean, on social work, our handles at Juve social on most of the channels were probably most active on Instagram. But we're you know, if you hit us up on Facebook or Twitter will will likely will likely see it see you over there, but it's at GU social. And then if you want to hit up our website, it's juvie. com, so j two O's to these. That's it That's short for rejuvenate, but juice calm. And once you're on our site, there are probably two areas that I direct you to you if you want to go deep on the science if you're kind of a geek, like myself, go to the Learn area or the Learn section of our site. You know, there's, there's a ton of long, long form well sourced educational articles that go that provide a lot more information on some of these benefit areas that we talked about. But if you want to kind of stay high level, check out the reviews section. It's we publish all all reviews, regardless of whether they're they're good or not. To that that page on on our site, and you can it's really it's just really interesting you in their own words, you can kind of read what people are saying about about this type of therapy and how it's, you know, the most of the time it's it the benefits that they're seeing, you know, from consistent us so that's a that's a pretty cool area as well.
That's awesome and very open and honest. which I love.
Yeah, no doubt. It's the only way go.
Yeah, well, cool man. That's that's been really great. I think super insightful listeners, I think there's the there's a lot of extra platforms you can go to to look at. But using the Learn section is really important for getting any extra insight into the studies that Scott has been talking about. I would also reference back to some of the previous podcasts that we talked about during this. So Dr. Anthony j, as well as Dr. Dr. JACK crews we talked about so they're both also really good insights to what lights and infrared lights can do for you as well. So that's great places to start. So Scotty, thank you very much for joining us, man. I really appreciate it.
Now Absolutely. Thanks for having me on really, really enjoyed the conversation. always appreciate the opportunity.
Likewise, man. Visit the chief laughs calm for all of you nutrition coaching needs, your own personalized meal plan, as well as how you can get involved with one of our seven pillar retreats.