We Need to Talk About Amazon: An Introduction to Capitalism
7:20AM Jul 30, 2020
Amazon is called one of the most influential economic and cultural forces in the world and the world's most valuable brands for nerds who grew up in the 1980s it's like a cyberpunk dystopia is wet dream come true. Our next talk will look at some of the curious aspects of this company the brutal capitalist force that represents, and the future Jeff Bezos wants to create, along with what we can learn from its behavior. Please welcome yohannes grins first enter and Yasmin How can Darfur, with what we, what we need to talk about Amazon. We need to talk about Amazon and introduction to capitalism, yohannes and yasmeen, thank you very much for joining us today.
Yeah, I know, directly from Vienna, Austria.
It is wonderful to see that everything works so smoothly. I heard that we have a little bit of a slight problem with our video file but it's totally fine to give an introduction, so we'll have an introduction to an introduction that's already coming up individually. So it's wonderful so we we wanted to talk about something that is relevant to us, and we had a little conversation about what is one of the big themes and big topics that everyone uses all the time and we'll talk a little bit on the one thing is Amazon, of course, because if you see what happens during COVID, that they even made more money that they even got more strongholds in boy.
Amazon is a prime subject for something that region talks about. If you want to add something to that doesn't mean Nasik we will pin
up some specific, you know.
Examples Examples points that we want to introduce you. And the other thing is that so many people are talking about is captured and the critique of capitalism, especially if we see what happened in the last couple of months on, and we had the idea of like, why not combining a talk about Amazon, with a talk about capitalism and pretty much doing like a one on one. So what is capitalism, where does it come from, how does it work, what are the basic rule sets about capitalism and how can we take those rule sets and put them on Amazon and see what specific like law that Marx came up with is represented in what action for example that Amazon's. So it's a it's on one hand, it's an analysis of a very contemporary mega Corporation. And it's also our try to analyze that mega Corporation. By, pretty much the Marxist critique of political economy.
So, what you're trying to do.
And then how are you finding this work so far.
Well, the good thing is, so we are both artists and we are both scholars, so at some point we were thinking of like how should we do that, and we didn't want that's I guess why we have to problem though with the video, we didn't want to just like sit in front of a webcam. And just like read that out so we had this idea of like maybe we should create the whole environment for that
environments. Yes. And we made some, like, kind of installation where we sat in and filmed the whole thing. So, yeah, so it turned out to be
more of a little eyepiece by itself, then not only a talk.
So, I hope you will enjoy it too.
We do and we are we are doing what we can behind the scenes to get that video going. Um, but, um, in addition to that, just what, what can we do to just keep the conversation going around like actually questioning Amazon and its place in our current society.
So, I think, at least for me I'm not sure what these mean things about it, at least for me, I think the main problem is that many people think that there is something like a good capitalism and a bad capitalism is capitalism and capitalism has a specific rule set and that rule set
is exploitative. There is not a big difference from the rules, between a little you know like hipster coffee shop at a corner in Seattle, and Amazon, they are both working from the same perspective they are both trying to make a profit they are both using a labor power that is usually not paying Well, we're actually trying to make a profit by suppressing the workers. So, what we have to keep in mind is that this is all kind of fucked. We are all sitting in a system that is not built on quality, it is built on fundamental injustice. And so, of course it's easy to pinpoint and say like Amazon is a huge force they can do whatever they want, pretty much. At the same time we also have to start thinking about ourselves and the companies that we work for, and what they are doing and how we live our lives. Yeah. I would also maybe add a little bit to really reflect on how we work what we define as work, how we buy how we consume. I think this is something to always be aware of.
As part of the greater conversation I mean like, how much of this is like one company like Amazon just deciding to take things in a direction versus Amazon just being, maybe a symptom of a larger social ill, that that really needs further addressing.
I mean, the symptom pretty much these companies. Larger societal feel at least from our political perspective. And of course you can bug fix that. You can have something like a good working social system, like we have in Europe, where you have like checks and balances that kind of like stop capitalism from excessive amounts of like in the US, for example, you don't have. I'm not saying it's happening in Europe with semi working social systems is the best solution I would call it just like stealing.
Let's get rid of capitalism but of course that's not so easy
on the planet. How can we just like maintenance. There's no way by.
We're hearing that we have, we have your video ready to go so we will shift over to that, please. We need to talk about Amazon and introduction to capitalism.
Thank you so much for having me.
By the age of 30 just basis already had a seat career on wall street but that wasn't enough for him back in 1994 when Bezos was a senior vice president at de Shaw and cool of Wall Street hedge fund firm, his boss and founder of the company. David Shaw discouraged him from starting Amazon. And that's where the capitalist hero's journey starts, together with his dad and a wife, Mackenzie Bezos made a bold decision and swapped his office in a New York skyscraper for a garage in Seattle, for doors, instead of tables, because they were cheaper. Based on a mission statement for Amazon was. Our vision is to be the most customer oriented company in the world where people can find everything they want to buy on the internet. At first, he was far from that. On July, 5 1994, Jeff, and Mackenzie Bezos set up an online bookstore. The company, initially called cadabra was quickly renamed, Amazon, according to the bestest biography from 2013 cadabra sounded too much like cadaver. After a startup period of about a year, the site sold the first book to an external customer. On July, 16 1995. A tome of more than 500 pages about thinking.
Today, a copy of it is on display at the entrance to the Amazon main building in Seattle. But began with spokes has developed over the years into the largest internet department store in the world today Amazon is much more than that, and keeps countless companies running with its cloud services. It offers startup it applications and storage space on the web, for example, with Whole Foods. The group also operates its own us supermarket chain. Here's a graph Hello view.
Have a look at how tiny the original business. The online retail pot actually is Amazon invests incredible amounts of money in research and development, and one of its products, got a lot of hackers and privacy activists, talking recently. Green is Amazon's Home Security and smart home companies. It manufactures products that incorporate outdoor motion detecting cameras, including the ring video doorbell printer home, watch what's
next, with Alexa,
green was made for ordinary people, but it's also to be found in nearly 700 police departments across the US Green contracts, if police access to the company's law enforcement portal, which allows police to request camera footage from residents, without receiving a warrant. In exchange, ring gives police free cameras and it offers police more free cameras, if they convince enough people to download its app, neighbors, another app from the Amazon Empire,
to partner with ring. Police Departments must also assign officers to ring specific roles that include a press coordinator, a social media manager, other community relations coordinator. The neighbors up its people to be interested and to focus not only on the criminal. But on the unusual, the uncomfortable. You can imagine that in some neighborhoods that focus is going to correlate with race and class with otherness rain isn't interesting yet frightening example of how to create a new market, and maybe something our fellow hackers should compete.
What will the future bring for Amazon. Since January basis wealth has grown by $74. billion. But he's far from having enough, and the suns prime streaming service successfully competes with market leader, Netflix, with its delivery logistics, Amazon, puts delivery companies such as UPS, FedEx and DHL under immense pressure. Amazon is effectively creating its own global Postal Service and Amazon is becoming the world's largest pharmacy and insurance company. Rumor has it that Amazon will at some point, offer a free bank account to all subscribers to the prime service. Can you imagine what that could mean for the banking world disruption might be too small. Awards.
Nobody really knows which industry best might steer up next. At the beginning of June, 2019, Amazon demonstrated delivery drones are expected to deliver the first packages in a few months.
Automatic and electric prime air aircraft will initially, bring small household goods such as toothpaste or raises on a trial basis.
Amazon holds an airborne fulfillment center, patents. It should be called shipping from space manufacturing. Jeff Bezos founded as most libertarian Uber nerd billionaires do a space company at Christie's it's Blue Origin
as Amazon continues to grow. And Jeff combines the operations from two entities, much like musk does with Tesla and SpaceX expect the space mining and manufacturing industry to be spurred by shipping from space to get same day delivery sounds crazy, but Bezos has this visions drones are only the last mile problems.
Thus he remains the richest man in the world. Despite an expensive divorce from McKenzie, in which he received chairs worth almost $40 billion.
Last September, Amazon was the second public company after Apple, to break the magic barrier of $1 trillion in market value you as a start investor Warren Buffett's famous investment company, Berkshire Hathaway bought Amazon shares, for the first time the following spring. The 18 year old stock market guru had previously praised basis in the highest terms, saying, I think that what Jeff Bezos has done is something close to miracle.
Critics accused Amazon of destroying the retail trade with its great market power and low prices. Amazon is one of the largest transnational corporations, and it has been the front runner for anti competitive monopolistic behavior. Amazon has become the ideal example for contemporary capitalism's inequalities. First of all,
what is capitalism. And what can we learn through Marx's analysis about Amazon. The origins of capitalism stretch back to the 16th century, when the British systems of power, largely collapsed after the Black Death, a new class of merchants began to trade with foreign countries, this newfound demand for exports, hurt local economies and began to dictate overall production and pricing of goods. It also led to the spread of colonialism slavery and imperialism. The death of feudalism at a record system that kept poor people bonded to the Masters land, which they farmed in exchange for place to live and military protection also left rural peasants, with no homes, and no work. This lack funneled them away from the countryside into urban centers privatization of common land through enclosures drove peasants into the cities to work in factories, the state
worked in concert with the new capitalists to establish a maximum wage and clamp down on beggars under the reign of Henry the Eighth alone. 72,000 people were executed for vagrancy
by the 18th century England had converted to an industrial nation. The dawn of the Industrial Revolution sign explosion of manufacturing overtake the islands. Within those smoky factories and flammable textile mills. Our modern idea of capitalism, and the opposition to it began to flourish in 1776, Scottish economist Adam Smith, published the treaties, an inquiry into the nature and costs of the Wealth of Nations regarded as the bedrock upon which modern capitalism stance. Smith claims the title, the father of
capitalism. Capitalism is a social system, not a form of production and distribution of goods, anyone who predates capitalism, and other parts of human history. Makes a conclusion by analogy. It is true that elements, later incorporated into capitalism existed in antiquity, and the commercial imperialism of the Telenor in a sauce and in Shell money. However, these forms of blind, and coincidental precursors
in capitalism, people own the means of production, say, fancy coffee machines or servers or farms or server farms. These folks, the bourgeoisie. Others don't own the means of production or capital, so they must sell their labor. They are the workers. That's all the baristas and sandwich artists Ryanair check in personnel at its roots. Capitalism relies on three simple things, private ownership or control of the means of production, working for the wage production for exchange, and profit. And it's all sold with the promise of liberty. Simply speaking, the kind of impact that capitalism has on your life depends on whether you are a worker or a bourgeois. The boss
capitalism didn't arise according to natural laws to stem from human nature. Organized violence spread it. The concept of private land and means of production might seem like the natural state of things now. But we should remember this privatization is a human concept. The power and penetrative force of capitalism lies in infesting changing even incorporating the totality of social relations
believers in the entrepreneur methods argue that a combination of brilliance innovation determination and strategic risk taking, pays dividends. Occasionally, it all pays 100 billion fault. Take a look at Amazon's
Alexa service. Data is more powerful in the presence of other data. It's an immutable law of 21st century living. It's one reason why the innovation team working on Alexa is 10,000 strong, and by correlating different data sources is enormously beneficial for Amazon. One could almost be in all of this, intellectual pursuits.
But Karl Marx's concept of surplus value pushes beyond such an A view, it explains the basis is rich precisely because he never properly paid his workers. The theory of surplus value, explains that employers, take the wealth, their employees creates and skim it off the top. In this view, employees, produce all the revenue that the business takes in the manufacturer the companies were so provided services that revenue minus the expenses of raw materials tools utilities and so on. equals the value that the employees created using those raw materials tools utilities, and so on. Rather than receiving the full value of the work, though, employees receive only a small proportion as wages. The employer keeps the rest. It's a zero sum game. The more value paid out to the employees in Vegas, the less value remains for employers to keep as profit.
During the third quarter of 2018, Amazon made nearly $1 billion in profit each month. Well, this surplus distributed equally among Amazon's roughly 500,000 employees, each employee would earn an extra $2,000, a month. That's quite a bonus, considering that most Amazon employees. If they work full time, earn about $2,600, a month that amount comes after how one fight for a wage of $15 per hour. Instead, each month that $1 billion goes to Amazon's leadership that the profit is distributed according to the whims of Amazon's board of directors of which Bezos is the chairman. This position, allows him considerable influence in pushing for reinvestment in the company. Such reinvestment is where Amazon's 130 $1 billion in assets, come from those assets drive, its $797 billion valuation, and vessels, 100 and $12. billion. net worth,
no good reason exists in heaven and on earth, why a single person should have so much money or hold so much power. Marx has explained that profit must come from labour power. The result of the inevitable exploitation of capitalism is that workers work for less than the real exchange rate of their labor for Amazon, this exploitation enables the company to sell its products, with an exchange value, that includes more labor value than the company paid for, according to Marx, that's the theory of surplus value, a greater number of working hours leads to the enlargement of surplus value and profit. The only way to generate as much profit as possible, is to make employees more productive without increasing their wages. To do so, Amazon deprives its workers bonuses work or benefits at lava breaks, Amazon workers are alienated from the products they produce, they produce only for capitalists such as basis to profit by becoming aware of their alienation and exploitation, Amazon employees in Portland, for the unions, they created petitions that hundreds of Amazon warehouse workers signed demanding an increase in salaries, and other benefits.
One interesting example of how Amazon works in develop an economist is Amazon basics, they've created a store brand of cheap headphones diapers foods. In doing so, they compete directly with the marketplace customers. But because Amazon has the means to produce high volume and cheap costs through exploitation of workers. The items, allow the Amazon brand to enter and become recognized in emerging economies. The scheme hawks participants in such economists are only. Sort of like giving the first cigarettes, to a kid for free to get them addicted lifetime value far outweighs the customer acquisition cost, Amazon had an incredibly profitable first half of 2020, due to coronavirus to come down the kids many businesses heart. And Max threatens to be the verse economic crisis since the Great Depression of the 1930s Amazon shares have increased by 70%, since the start of the year.
We're trying to build the most sustainable transportation fleet in the world.
So 100,000 units, that's a large volume of vehicles. We have to get this right. Oh wow. We have an opportunity to really set the standard. It's hard to not notice the changes around you. We're at an inflection point in human history where our actions are shifting and fundamentally changing the nature of what this planet feels like to live in so we're changing climate. The time we have to make that shift is right now. When you talk about Amazon's delivery fleet. Why wouldn't we go electric when we thought if we took Amazon's package delivery know how and reviens vehicle expertise, we work backwards from the needs of the driver.
What can we do
it needs to be the most functional, the highest performing the safest everything you see on the vehicle is a decision.
Well mill out of clay will see it in full size will color it out, make it look like a real car and it gives us a quick visual representation of what the vehicles gonna look like for production.
When we succeed, we displace those gasoline vehicles with electric vehicle, it'd be a large step forward in making our package delivery business, sustainable and it has a positive impact on the environment that's taking a leading role in sustainability, which is credible for the planet. It's a good thing, raising the bar will drive others to become more efficient.
It's going to be an iconic vehicle.
Amazon has the financial power to innovate, the example of the electric fleet shows the benefits of this force, we can factor in that Amazon is an overall force frequent logical change, even without the fleet of electric cars, having a book delivered to your doorstep in the US has a better eco footprint than using your car to drive to the mall to buy it. Amazon is top of the game in terms of efficiency, which increases their profits. The great ecological footprints is a wonderful side effect of fighting for each cent, not wasting a sense, can also be seen in how Amazon deals with returned packages. It is too inefficient to check out each returned goods. Beat an mp3 player or Lego kit. Amazon workers, leave returns sealed. Other companies buy these returns in bulk, then sort through the scraps and resell them. Modern savages in the high tech
junkyard Amazon also equals efficiency and savings. The logics of capitalism, and the degree of Amazon's market domination, are all expected results. Amazon is a company operating based on capitalism's norms. As long as capitalist economic relations continue. Also, and similar companies will continue to thrive. By the way, do you want to give them your keys.
You already know, Amazon is the easiest way to get what you need, like gifts for people whose birthday you forgotten.
As an Amazon Prime member, you'll now be able to use Amazon, a new service that enables in home delivery.
With the Amazon key app. You can also grant access to the people you trust. Let's say you need to remotely manage guest access to the front door of your home, maybe to let in your dog walker, a friend, or maybe the lead in a team of home cleaning ninjas. To get started, order the Amazon key in home kit, which includes Amazon cloud cam, and one of several compatible smart locks,
have it installed by a pro or if you're handy install it yourself.
Once installed, it's no problem if you're not at home with Amazon key, you can get your packages delivered just inside your door. You can track your delivery with real time notifications. Watch the delivery happening live
or review a video of the delivery after it's complete.
Maybe you don't want your packages sitting out on display. Maybe rain is in the forecast.
Or maybe you just need your mom's gift moments before she walks through the door.
because you're awesome.
Even if Amazon broke into different companies doing so would only delay the inevitable process of reconsolidation into new monopolies. However, as Karl Marx encouraged the working class has the power to shut down production and movement of goods. One step to doing so is to unionize Amazon workers. This movement requires more than the unionization of warehouse employees, Amazon is a multi layer multinational company that has an enormous political influence, thus more members of the working class must get involved, such as the delivery workers manufacturing workers in any other working class employee, Amazon, depends on
karma theory of the contradiction of capitalism has proved to be the relative or current capitalist system that concentration of wealth is the current situation. Best has become the wealthiest man, live, while his overworked, employees, live paycheck to paycheck. Capitalism fosters a toxic misleading environment. The illusion is the people who work hard enough, get paid enough for the work. Amazon might claim to be a company that prioritizes innovation and its customers, but it deflects the well being of the majority.
Amazon might be a marvel of logistics, but it's also one of top private fiefdoms in our market system basis overseas and optical freedom less surveillance capitalism capitalist companies are not responsible for the public good. That's the sad truth. The public will never take part in any top level decision. Even the idea of boycotts is strange. In a world where Amazon Web Services hosts most giant online services. How can you coordinate through online communication, without using Amazon's bandwidth.
The ranking of things to worry about Skynet coming and taking over doesn't even rank in the top 10. It distracts attention from the more urgent things like for example what's going to happen to jobs
for a glimpse into the future, consider one of the largest companies on the planet. Amazon.
Amazon has tremendous scale, we have fulfillment centers that are as large as 1.2 5 million square feet. That's like 23 football fields in it will have just millions of products
to deal with that scale, Amazon has built an army of robots
like a marching army of ants that can constantly change its goals based on the situation at hand right so are boxer very adaptive and reactive in order to extend human capability to allow for more efficiencies within our own buildings. And there's plenty
more where those came from every day. This facility in Boston. Graduates, a new batch of machines.
All of the robots that you see that are moving the pods, have been built right here in Boston. I call it the nursery, where the robots are born, they'll be built, they'll take their first breath of air, they'll do their own diagnostics. Once they're good, then they'll line up for robot graduation, and then they will swing their tassels to the appropriate side drive themselves right onto a pallet and go directly to a fulfillment center
to some of us this moment belies, a dark sign of what's to come. A future, that doesn't need us. One we're all jobs, not just cab drivers and truckers are taken by machines, but Amazon's chief roboticist
doesn't see it that way. The fact is really plain and simple, the more robots we add to our fulfillment centers, the more jobs we're creating the robots do not build themselves. Humans design them. Humans build them. Humans deploy them, humans support them, then humans. Most importantly, interact with the robots, when you look at that. This enables growth, and growth does enable jobs.
Certainly history would seem to bear him out, since the Industrial Revolution, new technologies, while displacing some jobs have created new ones. Well this is the predominant view in the AI community, something it ignores the reality of today's world,
Amazon has been working on automating aspects of the fulfillment process. In the meantime, it uses human workers as virtual robots treated as disposable units, from which to extract labor, at the lowest possible costs. Amazon discards them once they are set handheld scanners Ws instruments of surveillance with workers, every movement times, including bathroom breaks. Amazon fulfillment center workers pee in bottles, out of fear of termination for going to the bathroom tracking wristbands alert workers of any millisecond spent slacking off on the hottest day of the year, Amazon, had paramedics on hand outside the warehouse to treat heat exhausted workers conditions of dire, with the company, opting to have medics on standby rather than fit warehouses, with air conditioning systems, with all the scanning and walking on concrete floors injuries are common. Who needs a replicant when you can grind down the working class in the pursuit of your grand vision.
We need to use our vast productive for services to veterans. And as technology allows us to move to a discussion of what sort of planning, instead of whether planning to control of planning must be the non negotiable foundation of our vision and aspect of mob thinking, which remains under emphasized is how he recognized capitalism's tendency to replace labor animal and human physical and cognitive with machines.
Marx considered it a force of potential liberation fragments on machines, short but important excerpt within the much larger gun that is lays out the philosophy, most clearly that goes on to this went unpublished in German until 1939. We're still the text wasn't translated into English until 1973. As a result, its prescient observations exerted little influence over communist projects in the 20th century, a tragedy, because it not only contains the first analysis of technological evolution and the capitalism, but also the opportunities that evolution creates. Let's quantum capital employs machinery rather only to the extent that it enables the worker to work a larger part of his time for capital to relate to a larger part of his time his time, which does not belong to Him, to work lover for another through this process the amount of labor necessary for the production of a given object is indeed reduced to a minimum, but only in order to realize a maximum of labor is the maximum number of such objects. The first aspect is important because capital here quite unintentionally reduces human labor to a minimum. This will redound to the benefit of emancipated labor, as is the condition of its emancipation
maps could not have been any clearer competition compels capitalists to innovate in production. Doing so leads to permanent experimentation with workflows and technologies in the pursuit of ever greater efficiency, the logic of market demand means capitalists must produce goods and services as cheaply as they can, it forces them to constantly reduce overhead. This automation has generated suffering and exploitation, under capitalism. But under another system, automation presents a momentous opportunity. And so, production ever increases in efficiency and leisure is valid as a social good increased productivity doesn't lead to more leisure. Instead, it leads to production of more goods and services.
In fairness to those defending such a view it was not only founded on economic orthodoxy, but also two centuries of observable change. The capitalism. The difference with Marxists, he thought there was an alternative. And that only pursuing it, which humans achieve freedom by the average political commentator likes to cast Marx as an idealistic dreamer. He stated his distaste for describing what communism might look like. That irritated, many, because one of the greatest minds to describe the shortcomings of bourgeois economy was well placed to suggest what my true
Mark's view, however, was that workers in the struggle, were uniquely positioned to arrive at concrete solutions.
In May, 2019, Jeff Bezos unveiled his long term vision for humanity's future. During an hour long presentation Washington DC, the Amazon billionaire described how humans need to leave Earth. If we were to maintain growth and dynamism, in the future. For basis. Our future is a series of free floating space colonists called O'Neill cylinders. Near Earth. This proximity argues can help the planet to avoid exceeding its capacity as the population swells into the trillions
Bezos calls them O'Neill colonies, after American physicist, Gerard kitchen O'Neill first developed the idea, these are very large structures miles on end. And they hold a million people or more each, and this structure rotates to induce artificial gravity and just how big is it for scale, here's the International Space Station. And these enormous artificial worlds don't just have to be for humans, some could be national parks, but whatever therefore Bezos is sure of one thing.
These are really pleasant places to live. Some of these
O'Neill colonies might choose to replicate Earth cities might pick historical cities and mimic them in some way, there'd be a whole new kinds of architecture. These are ideal climates. They're shirtsleeve environments. This is Maui on its best day all year long. No rain no storms no earthquakes. What does it architecture even look like when it no longer has its primary purpose of shelter.
Such a development of you spaces allows us to produce thousands of motors and Einsteins. But what about everyone else
Bezos wants to see himself at the center of history, controlling it. He developed a book selling platform into a monopolistic mega corporation
that monopoly works an army of precarious workers to the bone,
as it extends its reach into new sectors. Ultimately, beyond Earth's orbit and us. I guess we'll keep paying our taxes, even in offworld colonies.
this is we need to talk about Amazon and introduction to capitalism with Johannes grants foerstner and Yasmin How can Darfur. Thank you both for joining us today. And we have just a few minutes for some audience questions. The one I wanted to bring in was, how do you how to use feel like COVID-19 is affecting capitalism, just in general.
Well I think
something's something's up because people need different goods now facemask needs
to be some kind of cures for COVID and actually Amazon puts
an apple. Put on all this useful the upper example,
but of course people keep buying our stuff in other places. Yeah. I mean, the main question for me, is there. Okay, let's say that we, there, there are many people out there who think that COVID-19 will change society that something will fundamentally be better if we go through this common trauma, so to speak, will end up better because we will see how bad capitalism is we'll see a change, we'll see racial injustice in the memory. The main problem is that, I mean, capitalism has gone through a couple of major crisis, and I'm not even sure that COVID is the biggest one. COVID is a crisis of capitalism and if people are not very common to the term, a crisis, doesn't mean that capitalism is under is is shutting down or anything like that, it just means that the market flames, just like means that at some point and COVID-19 is an example for that, that there will be a big perch that the bigger companies who has the power, who has more standing who have more duration or more standard of let's call it economic will eat the smaller companies. And we see that like big like a travel companies are diamonds. There was a moment when, when it wasn't clear if Airbnb with supply would survive, 2020, I mean suddenly this kind of weeds. So, and it's at some point there is, there is the consolidation of power and there's a consolidation of capital, and the bigger companies like Amazon will go through that, without the problem, it will just like buy off the small couple smaller companies, it will be kind of like this like refreshing phase of capitalism. That will be many, many people will be kicked out many companies will be kicked out of the system. And and die the capitalistic death, but that doesn't mean that capitalism will end. It will just go on it will go to the next level of consolidation, of course, first we have to go through a big recession, and nobody is really talking about
the beginning of this recession, it's just starting right now will hit us very hard, of course it will take some years. So this is like a long term affection that we need to face. And at the moment we're not eating. It's almost like we were talking about.
We can't really see the end result of that yet because it's almost like if you compare it to a sick person. We all like we have like a, like a high level of fever right now we don't really know what you're suffering from so at some point, we have to go through the fever first to get to a point where we can kind of like regenerate. But you're right now on the height of the crisis, and we have no idea how that will affect the world. And, I mean, I see that there will be changes in the economy, I think that there will be changes in the, especially national economy, there will be more interest in creating supply chains in the US for example or in Germany. So, if you see that there is a global economy and you see that you can get toilet paper, because you don't have enough toilet paper, how do you deal with that so we can have face masks, we can have proper equipment because all that stuff is coming from China. So of course, there is a nationalistic discourse about that. So, how can we strengthen the American economy, how can we produce your own own toilet paper, how can we produce our own face masks masks or whatever. But that also means that we are rising up in national competition and national competition might end up in the worst form of national competition, and that is cold war. We have seen that many many times that out of like an economic economic recession and problems, national competition of anthem so up that will clashing to each other as nation states.
Yeah. In a great twist of irony right as we're as we're having this talk, for, for tech CEOs are in front of Congress, including Jeff Bezos trying to explain why their practices are not unfairly squashing competition, which of course they are. So we just we just have a couple of minutes left but I want to get to. One more, one more question somebody had, which was just what specific and practical changes would you like to see these v the Amazon problem. They add socialist revolution equals I don't have an answer, Miley. I mean,
I mean we need to. Yeah, I mean we already mentioned it in the talk, but I think the only thing that we can do is a be aware of how that works. Yeah. Don't be energetic about that kind of stuff. So, I personally don't think that there is a good and a bad capitalism, usually there is something like the bad capitalism is to casino capitalism. It's usually days also it's like anti semitic trope in it's like the bankers and the Wall Street money and the East Coast money and all that stuff so there's always this like bad capitalism. And then there's the good capitalism, and that's usually called the economy, there's the bad capitalism and the economy and the economy depends on who you talk to. You also have people like Bezos as being part of the income, because he's generating jobs and he's helping us all and blah blah blah blah blah blah. I don't even know like what was that with New York, New York State actually wanted to bribe basis to move like Amazon to New York, or something like that.
They're actually, and they really backed it back Sumo knees for that so can you imagine that.
Yeah, yeah, but I mean yeah steak and capital, are like the flip side of the same coin. The nation state needs capital, because the nation state is is needs taxes and needs money. And, and capital needs the nation state because the because the nation state is protecting private property is protecting through the monopoly of violence to police, that everyone freedom is not bigger than everyone's like belongings and private property, you know like, that's a freelance freelance at someone else's private property.
We'll have to leave it there because we're just about out of time but yohannes gransfors Nair and Yasmin How can Darfur, thank you very much for joining us today.
Thank you so much. it's such a big such a big topic. I don't even know where to start, but thank you for watching. Thank you.