Episode 1 A Kinsey Hero

1:31PM May 8, 2020

Speakers:

Erik

Max

Chastain

Hannah

Keywords:

relationship

people

talk

hannah

podcast

experiences

polyamory

dating

partner

terms

anarchy

tinder

max

feel

consent

friends

menstrual cup

brian

describe

kitchen table

I still got I don't have this more than hers because I'm inclusive. But

what's up dumb Bryan

remember your David I'm Mary's Brian

and that's still just hanging out it's just a character on on on the steak cast its podcast within a podcast you want me to start with? No.

There was nowhere near.

I got four.

What's up pedantic Brian?

Precise Brian.

Precise Brian,

specific

Brian, you could just call me precise, precise, Brian.

I was that was just me getting my head around it in real time.

Yeah.

Wait. That's an unpleasant?

Sorry.

No, you didn't mean she made. You made it weird. No, that's already a podcast. Oh, you made it.

But that's the podcast. podcast. You made it unpleasant.

Hello, welcome to the Pod Pod Cvlt Cast, where we talk about life, love, learning and libido and share our journey through polyamory and kink. I'm Hannah. I'm Chastainn Brian.

I'm Erik,

It's your good pal Max here.

So let's We just set the scene this morning. Brian, being very precise, has pointed out specific things.

It's good to do. Okay, before we before we start though,

before we start Yeah, I just want to say have fun out there guys.

Leave it all on the floor give 110% there is no I in team.

Thank you specific Brian.

I would also like to point out that four minutes and 20 seconds or so in use it Okay, before we start.

I would like to point out my middle finger.

It's right there. Let's see good. Oh,

this is my guest. We talk about love and relationships, sex and kink, and polyamory issues and whatever else comes up. When we talk about those things. We'll probably also touch on stuff like abuse and violence and mental health challenges. These can be difficult topics. So keep that in mind. Moving ahead.

This is the first episode And today we're going to talk about Max's experience and journey through.

Okay, so the more I think about it, I think that probably in a lot of ways where I came from with it is probably very, very typical. My first experiences with any kind of non monogamous relationship were in my early 20s. I was dating a young woman for a couple years. And our first thing was really spontaneous, really drunken, like soft swap with friends, which I think is probably the door opener for a lot of people, especially in their 20s.

How do you define soft swap?

I mean, it was just making out and Heavy Petting and stuff with another couple in the same room. Yes, that was the same room. And it was really a door opener, we had a couple more of those kinds of have experiences and at the same time, a couple that was in my friend group that that same people that had been hanging out mostly with since high school, were really open about talking about swinging, talking about going to hotel parties, and that kind of stuff. And it was well known in that friend group, that the male part of this couple, that his move was to invite you over for drinks and then, like, initiate a truth or dare game. And it was, you know, kind of a joke amongst the friends like, did you did you get the invite yet? So once we, this young woman and I had had these door opening experiences, when like, we did get the invite, it was like, Alright, I got, I got the call up. I'm going to the big, you know, so we had experiences with that couple, and it was all fun. And not that matters. I think those were also mostly soft swap.

And these are all purely sexual experiences, not relationship. No, no, no, no, no. This is just

just I mean, I wouldn't have designed it this way at the time. And it took you and I tested years to like, start defining these things as swinging because swinging can have a weird connotation. But it was just swinging like it was just fooling around.

Is it me or does swinging make anybody else think of hot tubs and gold veins mirrors? Every time and change, change change around the

second Back to the Future movie?

Yes. Actually, that is swinging is this is the second Back to the Future movie

entirety which is which is a product have grown up in the 80s right because it was kind of a joke on movies and sitcoms and stuff like parties. Yeah.

70s and 80s tea parties and spaghetti dinners,

right which I that's how I experienced it. I didn't really think it was a real thing. I thought it was a joke from a TV show. You know?

Wait, rich, quick, quick aside. I've not heard Spaghetti dinners is anything like that. But in driving back from the campsite last weekend, every church that I passed had a marquee that was advertising a spaghetti dinner.

Oh, yeah, those churches be fucking

I will rethink my drive home. Yeah, because that's not what I was thinking at all. Yeah, they were advertised an oddly long amount of time out. One of them was not happening until mid September, so you can get your wax. Yep. Get into fight. Get down to your fighting. Wait.

Yeah. All right. Sorry about that. So hey, Max, you were saying?

Yeah, and at the same time, a more relationshipy thing. We had a downstairs neighbor, this young woman and I had a downstairs neighbor who we started calling our girlfriend, you know, hanging out all the time. But that was 99% cute and 1% sexy. You know?

She was girl, girlfriend to both of you. Yeah. Was it a unicorny situation? Or was it Do you feel like it was more equal than that was this person is equally into both of you

know, they were the two women were closer. I was sort of an appendage for the most part, I think. Yeah, you are. That was an exposure to some of the stuff that we would experience later. Like, you and I casual, all of us, I think, like, casual nudity around other people, like not necessarily sexy nudity, just like hanging out naked. You know, like,

like we are right now.

bathing. Yeah, right naked podcast. So that relationship lasted as long as it lasted. You know, after that I had a period that today might be cold and a different mindset might be cold, like so low poly, because I had a string of short kind of overlapping flings, but at the time, it was just dating around and if like we can talk about that we can talk about whether what people do in their 20s is so low As it is often described, or whether it's just dating around,

yeah, I've always heard dating around or just dating, or then Sir, it's serial monogamy. But there's a lot of overlap. So I don't think it's one after the other if it's overlapping,

right? I mean, yeah, I think a lot of the experiences that I would have later with Tinder dating would be with women who would not self describe as polyamorous or non monogamous or whatever. But they were having multiple casual relationships, at the same time while still calling themselves monogamous, which is a strange thing me but I guess it doesn't really matter. That was pretty much it as far as non monogamous relationships for me until much later with you and I test them. And you should probably talk about that when you kind of tell your story because you're better at details and chronology and stuff than I am I start to get stuff kind of mixed around because of all the Who's you know, so then once you and I had had testing, you and I had had experiences with swing stuff, and then we had the talks and read the books and did the open dating.

Well, to remind you, I think Tinder came out in 2010 or 2011. It was 2012 when you and I checked out Tinder and prior to that, you and I had a closed relationship. So we got we started dating and what 2003? Max? Yes. 2003. Okay. So it was nine years later that we actually opened up our relationship. And that came about very casually, it was, Oh, I think I want to have coffee with this person, just by myself. How do we feel about that? And we did it. It was a while after that, that we actually read the books and started doing right. Until then we were just sort of throwing ourselves out there haphazardly and having lots of arguments and there was a lot of upheaval involved because we weren't To have the casual sexy times and also the sad feelings and the new relationship energy, right? So, so yeah, then we read the book. So after 2012 I would say it was probably maybe 2014 when we started making great strides towards not picking it up all the time. Yeah, that sounds right.

I'll go along with it. So my experience pass it in past us, really, you know, air finger air quotes, opening up was a lot of like, like I just mentioned, through Tinder or whatever, dating women who didn't call themselves non monogamous, you know, and, and that being uncomfortable and weird and difficult. And then deciding after a third date, like, I don't want to do this, this isn't cool.

was their first question always. How does this work? Yeah,

yeah, pretty much. I guess. What where I'm at today is probably what I should talk about.

Yeah. Talk about that.

You know, you and I have you and I have been married for almost 11 years. 11 years next month. Yes. Hannah and I have been dating for three years. I have a hard time talking about what our relationship is Hannah, because as a 41 year old man, it feels dumb to say girlfriend. But also partner seems clinical and distant and weird. I mean, I guess it's fast, right? Like partners, probably. I know you. I've heard you use partner to, like,

describe me I use partner pretty consistently. But then, like you said, that doesn't feel as intimate somehow and then I'll use boyfriend and then that's feels silly, because we're grown people. So

yeah, I tend to use partner for air. Right. And if other people are talking about Eric and I, they'll use boyfriend girlfriend terminology. I won't correct them. But I also won't mirror that. Because I think it is silly, because we're adults. We don't need labels.

Yeah. We just have love. We don't fucking I mean, we need labels in relation to other people, right? Yes, you gotta call somebody something,

it helps other people relate to you,

right partner is just a label that has caused more confusion with people, because they assume that that always leads to same sex partner.

Yeah. So then I have to explain more things than I originally would have with me. They always assume it means that we're in a legal practice together. That's funny. Yes.

My partner in business and in life.

I mean, really, we are all are all in business and in life,

and in Christ,

Christ. Well, you know, I think the use of partner has really bloomed in the last couple of years. It is definitely appropriative of queer culture. But partners just really a better way of describing somebody that you're with that is non gendered, and doesn't assume a level of relationship that just indicates connection, a connection. Yeah. Or I have a relationship with this person versus capital our relationship

and in theory, it should denote a partnership like a working working together.

And because I my experience has been that polyamory takes a lot of work, so much work. And you have to have partnership within that to make it work there is so low poly is a true thing, but I'm not in a solo poly situation and I feel like it. It takes a lot of effort for all of us, you know, before us as a pod, our individual relationships with one another.

Yeah, I am, you know, and the rest of where I'm at today. I've also been seeing somebody seeing another one casually for six months or something. How's it been that long? Yeah, it was February when we first met. In a conversation we had last night I was reminded of an anecdote that I hadn't thought about in years. But before I started dating that young woman that I had to like swing experiences with I had a really terrible roommate on three, four or whatever occasions, he would go hang out this redneck bar and like bring a woman home. To our sad, gross little apartment, and like, every time this woman went up to go to the bathroom or get another drink, or like was in any way mildly distracted, he would come over to me and like, try to, like, double up. Let's

power it. Yeah.

No, no, man, that's not that's not my scene. I'm not really about that. But that and he was saying, and he would always I mean, that was I was a weird, awkward, 20 year old or whatever. And he would always be like, man, if it's because you got a little bit, don't worry about it. It's cool. It's cool. And like Davis, it's just that like, No, just not my scene. It's not about the dick, man.

I like that he was concerned about your security and your manhood.

I guess I don't know if it was really the most altruistic thing he was attempting though.

Do you think it was because he had a really big dick, and he felt like he could.

What a man at all. He was just, this is what I'm trying to do. Do do it.

Yeah, I mean here I don't know that there was much concern. I think it was just a power move like I think he was, you know, he's kind of a dirtbag dude. Like it was a power move to to spring this on some unsuspecting like drunk chick which is terrible. Yes. Yeah, totally awful but really, he said dirt bag.

dirt bags can use consent as well. I need to not hit my knees. Yes. I like to be emphatic and hit things and gesture. We're not talking about kinky.

I like to hit people and gesture to

today, how would you describe what you and I have today? Max, would you How would you describe our relationship? And then we'll move in transition that to describe your relationship with Hannah. In terms of just how we function would you say relationship anarchy,

you tend to use the term religion anarchie and I don't have a problem with it. For me, you talk about labels man okay for me like I don't labeling like we're married dude, like we are married.

So we just kind of relationship.

Yeah, I mean, that's just kind of the way I think about it like, we're married. We are partners, we love each other, we take care of each other. We are household, you know, we keep a household. We raised a kid together, like we're married. And we also have relationships with other people.

Do you consider our relationship a primary relationship?

No, I don't. I don't like I've never been comfortable with hierarchical things because I think it can be really diminishing towards whatever other relationship you have. For me, is it

hierarchical or hierarchical?

hierarchical is easier to say. But I know you know for if you have two people who have never partner who are also dating each other like that, those kinds of terms can be really useful for other people for me, I just I don't like it. But that's just for me.

Well, I think at this time in the situation, you have two people that you are now domestically involved with, Hannah moved in, at the beginning of this month. So you know, you to have your relationship. Hannah's my metaphor. And with that, do you think that that places us on a separate level, not not better level but just a separate level or separate category, then you're the other person that you're dating? Who doesn't live with you?

Oh, well, yes, automatically, but also, that's just a different relationship. Gotcha, you know, gotcha.

So how would you describe your relationship with Hannah?

Well, now like he said, We are domestic partners now like we all are kind of pulling this boot in the same direction. In what terms? I don't think

relationship, as you know, if you think about the different types of ways to describe

forgetting, we're talking about taxonomy.

We're talking about taxonomy at this point. Yeah. Well, for people who don't like labels, we are now labeling,

right. For the listeners, we're open, right? Like that's just the best way,

the first time that you've just got,

like, relationship anarchy for me and what my ethic is. I think that's different than sort of how we describe how we're together.

Does somebody want to take shot somebody not me take a shot at defining that.

I'll do it. So relationship anarchy, for me, is where you for me for me, is when you have say you have two relationships. Those relationships don't necessarily have anything to do with one another. My relationship with a does not affect my relationship with Max. My relationship with Max has its individual dynamic and set of guidelines and set of consent and rules and things that make it successful. And those things only affect my relationship with other people if they if I let them So Eric and I can make individual decisions in our relationship and decisions together and our relationship Max and I can make individual decisions and decisions together and our relationship if I don't, I i've you relationship anarchy is not comparing partners. And also, I don't need my partners to have relationships with one another. I don't require a kitchen table polyamory situation. So you could never talk for all I care. It doesn't matter. It's great that you do. But you see.

You're welcome. You say that you don't require a kitchen table situation, but it is important to you. It is important a goal of yours for a long time

it has been but it's but my costs have really changed over the years. And it's it's shifted more towards if that dynamic happens organically, I'm not going to push it. You Maxine and I have been in situations where we've tried to have the kitchen table Polly situation where we're all friends and we all spend time together. But I didn't necessarily like people or they didn't like me or you didn't like my people. So I don't think you should hang out with people you don't want to hang out with. You can be respectful of somebody's other partner without having to be their best friend. And I you know, it's fortunate Hannah and I dated. So Hannah and I have an existing relationship and Hannah and I are great friends now and now we're roommates. Yay. But, you know, your relationship with Panamax doesn't affect me unless I don't need to know what's going on in your relationship. Like, ultimately, why

do so many goddamn boy, I just

I'm curious about the world. Um,

but ultimately the changes is going yeah. in weird places. So let's talk about the menstrual cup feeling is that you can't explain

about my menstrual cup. I don't feel like if I have questions about your relationship, I feel like I should go to max and say, Max, this is my feeling and these are the questions I have. And then you max get to decide whether you consent to give me that information and share that with me about your relationship. Otherwise, I don't think that I am owed any kind of relationship information about you too. It's just that so relationship anarchy for me is just there are there aren't rules about what relationships mean? Consent is really key. But the person who gets to consent is the person who's the sort of the hub of those relationships. If you want to know something about Eric, you could ask him directly, or you could ask me. You know, I don't know that I'm making myself clear. I don't know that I'm actually defining relationship anarchy, we could just google this relationship anarchy, and hit us up on Twitter at @podpodcvltcast this cvlt with a v. And

I'll do it a week ago so that we can bring it up now.

No, no, not right now. But, you know, just let us know what, what you think relationship anarchy means or share your favorite definition of relationship anarchy. So just hashtag relationship anarchy, and add us on Twitter or slide into our DMS. We know whatever we're not

when I asked for the definition. Did I interrupt you or you did you have more?

I was just saying, I think we had an open relationship. That's an accurate description. And that doesn't miss Sara Lee impact her comment on like, our individual relationship styles as people. Yeah, so I agree with you. I've been relationship is a great way to describe what we have together.

Now you're living with not one but two partners. Right? How's that working out for you?

Um, we are still in settling in mode were What? Two weeks into you being here full time, Hannah. And you know I am I struggle with like a chaotic environment. It's getting like a little easier now that boxes are mostly getting unpacked. And we're kind of figuring out, figuring out our schedules together and that kind of stuff. But otherwise, like it's, I think working out great. Like, I think it's been fun and I think we've had a good time doing dinner together. And you know, yes, yesterday was was nice. We were all sort of cleaning and unpacking and doing stuff around the house. It was nice. It was a very pleasant day. And, you know, we're all listening to our various music and podcasts. Some things but still like interacting. I think it was probably the best all together day we've had so far with everybody here. And also like, really the first day we've all just kind of been around the house all day together. Yes. I know. Yes. Nobody was working. Nobody was had other plans or something they had to do

actually talked about how the domestic situation living with partners and having the kitchen table Polly was a goal of mine. But

no, I should have said ours. Yes, but

no, but tell me about how that's come about for you. You know, when you were living in your bachelor pad across the street, it was something we talked about frequently when we were dating and engaged. But So tell me about what that I don't know what that feeling is or why it's important to you and how you think it benefits you and how you've gotten to this kind of kitchen table Polly situation that we have now.

I think I've always had a feeling you know, I my first couple places that I lived. Once I left my childhood home, were houses with a bunch of dudes living in them, you know, and then later I lived with my sister and brother in law and one of their children for a couple years. And, you know, I've just always enjoyed kind of a full house. You know, it's nice as much as I have unusual, me and alone time needs unusual meaning unusually large, me and alone time. Like, I also really like people just being around, you know, the energy. Yeah, you know, it's just nice knowing that even if I'm sitting in the lawnmower in the garage or watching baseball on TV that like, you know, somebody's sitting in the kitchen, or in here playing a video game, somebody can, you know, be lay in their reading or whatever. It's just nice having other people around and it's great. practical to have the help and in this economy in this economy, you know, yeah, not to be kind of crass about it. But you know, it is a big financial help to be. What did we decide the term was at this tournament at this point, not dinks. But three weeks or three, three income new kids, three income, no kids now that our son has has moved into his first place.

I know. It's gone. So Eric, Yes, hello. So the three of us now live together, and that doesn't affect you in any way, shape, or form. Other than that, when you come over here, usually there are more people around. But how is our living situation as has there been any effect for you and I? Is it just kind of neutral for you?

I mean, it's neutral in the sense that I don't live here. So no, I mean, usually whenever I'm here has also been here as well. So it's not really different to me.

Yeah, yeah. Anyway, sitting by yourself. I do living

by myself because I 100% agree that that alone time is very, very important to me.

Yes, that's something that you and I've been really good about and our relationship is having alone time and respecting that and respecting time with other people with friends.

Okay, you know, I think that that you and I grew up together in being in a long term relationship. Yes. And went through the struggles of figuring out how to handle a lot of things like giving somebody else space. And like, Oh, you know, everybody, we date or whatever now, like gets the benefit of putting each other through our tie.

Yeah. Well, okay. Let's talk about us a little bit. Let's talk about the marriage and let's talk about some of the foibles that you and I have experienced coming up. I mean, in our next episode, I'm going to tell my polyamorous origin story. But you and I have a relationship together and it's just as applicable to you. So talk about me for a few minutes. relationship with me about us getting married about us dating about why why did you decide to marry me like what was appealing to you about a partnership with a polyamorous person?

You know, we talked before we we talked for a long time before we ever went on a date. Yes. And, you know, so we talked

with you several times before

we came into it knowing that there were ethics around sex and love that we shared, and that sex isn't necessarily love and, and love isn't really doesn't really have anything to do with sex and that we, you know, had an openness to a less traditional relationship. So that's, you know, what pertains to that part of the discussion, but, you know, we got married because we love each other and like, have a good time together. And yeah, we do generally work well together, like we fuck up. But,

you know, we thought we were really good on a project. Yeah, if you have a dream I go Okay, here's how we're going To execute that dream, which can sometimes

be problematic because often make no no I was because often my here's the thing I want to do is just because I think it's funny,

okay, yeah, all the things that I paid spreadsheets and checklists.

It's not a serious thing that I want to do. It's, it's a funny, stupid idea. And then all of a sudden, like, we have a website.

I like how you preface things when you tell me about them. Now, when you have a dream or an idea, you go, this is not a thing I'm actually going to do right this is so don't get excited. Don't go Don't take action on this. Yeah, just chill

out. Chaston because there will be seven Amazon boxes on the porch when I get home the next day, having to do with my goat farm.

I mean, probably be seven Amazon boxes in general, because I don't like to go out in public or talk to people. So

yeah, well, that's true. There is an Amazon box on the porch every day, but that's fine.

Everything's fine. Everything's good podcast equipment.

Yeah. So that's, that's why we got married and that's what works about us. Yes.

What doesn't work about us.

We don't we have a hard time talking to each other. We are sensitive people who have a tendency to assume that someone is criticizing, when they're not really the ways, the things that are difficult about us are the things that are very similar about us, you know what I mean, being temperamental, being sensitive. Those are traits that we share in common between us. And those can also cause conflict points between us. No,

absolutely. Well, I think one of the interesting things about our relationship is that when it comes to the relationship itself, and it comes to polyamory, you and I've always communicated very well about that. You and I have always communicated well about you know, the people we read opening up together, we formed a relationship agreement that went through several iterations. We worked on it and then

we burned it,

then we burned it. Well, you know, we had a relationship we, you know, we went through counseling, we tried it a couple of times, and I think at the end of it, we just figured out like that counselling was more upsetting for us than actually just sort of getting through it ourselves and through, right hammering through, we're good at hammering through together. I think that's, that's, I think that's the wonderful thing about our relationship is that we just we're gonna keep pushing through and as fucked up as it can be sometimes we just keep fighting for it. I think that's special.

Sure, yeah. I mean, I have like, weird sex stories, but

I'm just kidding. I've never been. That's one of the things about working in construction. Like I'm not a sex story person. Yeah, I don't tell them I don't want to hear other people's like, especially on the job site, but boy, are they around? Yes. Cheese. Or like, I don't dude, want to just describe an attractive woman. They saw you like how does that help me? You know, like a dude, I saw this thing. Yeah, like a guy will come back to the jobsite at lunchtime after having gone to the store like man This girl like really William, what does that do for me man?

Well, it's I mean that's part of objectification culture. Yeah, yeah, we're raised

part of it that's kind of a some of it.

Well, yeah, so Max, how do you identify Are you are you straight? Are you

yeah I'm just a sis head straight dude. Yeah, you know I'm not a Kinsey zero but you know just straight dude.

Here Kinsey go with

zero I'm Mackenzie hero. Oh, drop that Kinsey zero and coming over to this Kinsey hero baby.

Well, so let's, you know, let's talk a little bit about how we each identify since we're sort of getting to know everybody on this first episode, our flagship episode, Hannah, how do you identify in your bio, it says you're a weirdo. So yes.

Breaks square is a really useful term for me as I figure things out as well. Get into it later. But the terms other than relationship anarchy that really clicked with me initially, were Polycom and pansexual, which apparently is fraught and I learned that only as I dived into it. Oh, I

don't know this. Can we talk about? Can we take a quick? Yes, no sexual is

learning purely on the internet in secret I was trying to understand, like, what identities were available to me since mine clearly wasn't matching with with expectations. And I encountered pansexual as a term that that meant, as opposed to by which was right, I'm attracted to people of the same gender and other genders, which is still pretty inclusive, right? It's not just binary pansexual was presented to me as a term that I'm attracted to people without regard for gender like it just doesn't factor in. And that really rang true for me, and then I started to encounter you No, mostly like lesbian elders who say this is really disrespectful or by elders who say this is really disrespectful because they're probably you're trying to make a special millennial identity for yourself that already falls under the BI umbrella. And this is by erasure like, because you feel you need to call yourself pan, like by was never supposed to be by Mary. And I, like I hear that. And I respect that. And I understand why somebody might feel upset the evolution of language, though. Well, and that's exactly how, you know, I felt about it. And I think many people feel about it is never intended to remove somebody else's identity. But I don't know. There. There's a lot of ways in which we just keep refining smaller and smaller labels in a way that feels Exclusive OR feels like calling out to be special. And that was certainly not the intention. It really just had to do with what I encountered at a really critical time for me and what sort of felt natural

about what he Was that

25 ish, Eric, how do you identify?

I guess I'm pretty well, just a normal straight guy.

How about average? not normal that is also not so normal except everybody else for whatever their thing is because the thing

that's shaping normal, we should all just accept people's thing for their thing.

Right?

Well, so I, I've gone through several iterations of identity. Hannah, I'm very much in the same camp as you. I, you know, I was a closeted bisexual in my teens. And then I learned about pansexuality. And I was like, oh, pansexual feels right, because I'm not attracted to a specific gender. But as I've grown and have more dating experiences and sort of online My own consent more I found that I am primarily a big old lesbian. I just happen to collect white cisgendered men who are hetero because I have the two of them right now. Um, but I have to get small in my in my Menagerie Gotta catch them all. Right now today I identify as a very femme homo flexible person, and I fall under the bisexual umbrella. I also fall under the asexual umbrella because I'm demisexual there are so many words that means so many things. And I like having descriptors because I think it communicates to other people sort of what my deal is and helps them ask better questions. But there are a couple of labels that I've done away with. So I don't outright identify as a lesbian because I do have, you know, I'm not all the way gay on the Kinsey scale, but I'm British. I like it. I'm gay enough. I have done away with terms like CPR sexual because safety of sexuality is a very elitist term, I'd no longer

on it. Pardon? We have a listen, we have to be really conscious of

defining terms of sexuality, in my definition has always been an attraction to intelligence and education. And are you articulate speaking and things like that? It's basically attraction to intelligence. And intelligence is such a broad term and such a spectrum. And when we talk about spectrums, it doesn't mean that there's not intelligent and intelligent it means that there's artistically intelligent and there are people who are good at managing tasks and there are people who are really good at building things and there are people who are good at reading and speaking and there are so many different ways to express intelligence and intelligence is hindered by people who are oppressed and marginal So when you have marginalized communities of people, they don't have the opportunities to have the tools to express intelligence that they have innately within themselves and develop intelligence. So it feels wrong now today, for me to say that I'm a psychosexual because I feel like that is denying the fact that, you know, this person over here who probably doesn't have a college education and is working in a blue collar job and yada yada yada. Oh, wait, like,

yeah, towards panas.

The one of us with a degree here? No, all of you, one of us with degrees and the rest of us don't have degrees. But we're, you know, we do fine. We do.

Okay.

So it just feels really exclusionary and elitists, and shape your sexuality comes from a place of privilege. And that's not a place that I want to be in any more

quickly with aside to that and most instances in which I see the term used Are Tinder profiles in which you think they're just trying to use that word to ward off people that they would assume are not intelligent. I think we could spend an hour

talking about sounds and Tinder BIOS that are amusing or cliche I think we should. All right, putting finishing just just wiping.

So So I identify as flexible and we're all white. We're all cisgendered and Hannah and I are queer. I use queer when I'm talking about it generally, but I use Homa flexible when I'm trying to go like, okay, you know, I love the ladies, but I also liked it.

My friend Richard, this is how I find out Yeah, I'm just I'm sorry.

Both of you. Want to let you know that taken I have a very promising future. I'm having sex love child.

So that's a good turn. I'm sorry.

We go back to menstrual cups. I just want to make sure that I'm really kicking everybody out here in the room.

Didn't Johnny rock When the 88 menstrual cup um yeah

yeah

I don't know there's there's

nothing as a race is hilarious I think it should be like a golfing cup. Masters

PGA Come on No

we're not gonna call the lady golfing the menstrual cup.

So you know, I just did as part of our disclaimer we talked about that the fact that some uncomfortable topics or topics that are not usual and definitely not safe for under age people. Mike was referring

mostly to minstrel

mostly work to menstrual cups but we have a lot of adult themes on this show. But we should also say that we are not experts in relationships. I personally have a lot of training and how to help people become better relationships because I'm a coach. That's it. And that's it. That's the you know, but we do have expertise in terms of how we communicate And our from our life experience, but we're going to make mistakes. So if we ever say something that sounds wrong or sounds uncomfortable for you and you want to give us some feedback, you can always reach out to us at our website, which is podpodcvltcast.com that's cvlt with a v. We're gonna fuck up. But we're gonna try really hard not to book. I just say adult themes.

Very adult.

Everybody say fuck.

So Max, anything else?

No, I yeah, I realized that. It seemed like a long story, but it's not. It's just it's very short. I mean, a lot of history years of that history. Well, not 10 years, but four years of that history. My history is our history. Yes. And I didn't want to talk about that twice. And I want you to talk about it. Like I said before, that's fair, because you're smarter and have a better memory.

I wouldn't say that at all, but you're better at storytelling. So I think we can cancel each other out real good. You are really handsome.

That is irrelevant.

Oh wow it

next episode we're going to talk about me I'm going to talk about myself. But in future episodes, we're going to talk about topics that just pertain to polyamory. We're going to talk about what we do what we don't do, why we do it, why we don't do it, what we see that's good, what we see that's not working out for other people or for ourselves. We're going to try not to talk about Google Calendar, because that's typical as book

you just did.

I set it the one time I promise, I won't say it again.

No, I'm gonna say it a lot. Oh, Google Calendar.

Yeah, Let's all say Google Calendar. Google Calendar.

I don't like this bit.

Well, I do.

Our first episode, Hannah, what are your hopes for this podcast? What do you hope if this podcast will accomplish for our listeners for ourselves,

I really hope this can be the kind of resource that I was looking for. Because there there are a lot of resources out there. But I was looking for a trusted friend, somebody who had experiences that they could share in a way that wasn't prescriptive that was just described and helped me understand how people do things and how they do them differently. Awesome. x. What about you? What do you hope for our podcast?

I'm not. I don't know, I guess I'm not as generous as Hannah. Well, everybody knows. I'm not sure. But we very often, most Sundays, I would tell you, we spend a couple hours sitting at the kitchen table drinking coffee and looking at our phones and like laughing at each other. Yes. And if we do that with mics in front of our faces, like I just thought it would be fun to do that with you guys. So that's, that's pretty much all like, Oh, my only aim for

your aim is to have fun. Yeah, that's

just looking out there

to about here.

I'd have to say that it's kind of a combination of both of those answers in the sense that if we are already Do it around the table, drinking some coffee and just talking some shit. And that shit can be taught in a way that is documented and helpful to others then sure, why not?

Yeah, I have to agree. I think that coming up and polyamory on this journey, or what have you that, you know, I have not found a lot of resources about the just day to day stuff. It's always, you know, here's how you have an argument, here's how you don't have an argument. Here's how you avoid jealousy, all that stuff. But it's never just like, Who's gonna fucking cook dinner and stuff like that? I think that, you know, while absolutely not unique, there are a lot especially in our community and our circle of friends right now. We have a lot of people who are cohabitating right as couples and couples and couples, more

couples and couples and more pools. And I think that's awesome. It seems like this summer has been the summer of partners and

memorialization This economy and

they have to live

together because resource.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So I'm excited to talk about sort of, you know, how we're doing in terms of living with one another and getting through problems there. I'm excited to share our experiences. And I'm excited to share our take on some of the more common topics because I think that we all have similar views in terms of consent, I'm always going to talk about consent, but also in terms of, you know, what quality time means and things like that. And I love you guys. You guys are my family. So if I could hang out with my family, I'm excited. Well,

let me throw in one more thing, you know, to be helpful to other people. We're, we're talking in a more organized format than we would be just having conversation with ourselves. Absolutely. Which is totally cool. Which is helpful to us to like, well, we'll figure out some stuff as we go along, because we're talking in an organized way and being forced to think about ourselves. You know, in a way that's a little more clear to someone who doesn't know us. So I think that will be helpful to us too.

I think this is a growing experience for us and hopefully for the listeners.

Well, for the listeners.

I do hope that we do become more organized this year.

But meanwhile, Eric feels he has no need for growth. He's good. Where are you?

From? I'm just teasing. I was just talking to him. This is our first episode, we don't know what we're doing.

We're gonna get better, will suck less later or will suck more. It depends on how you think about I

mean, it's all relative.

And what Patreon level you jump in it

and speaking of Patreon, um, so we have a Patreon it's www.patreon.com slash podcast that's called with a V. Always. It's always caught with a V. And we're gonna take a little break and thank our patrons here for our first episode.

If you're enjoying the podcast, you can take our Patreon subscribers, Jenny and Sydney. They've made our theme music possible. To thank them we'll be sending them some sweet pod thoughts lag and give them access to exclusive content. If you'd like to be awesome, like Jenny and Sydney, head over to www.patreon.com/podpodcvltcast that's cvlt with a v and choose your subscription. Each level comes with its own fun perks. Thank you so much Jenny and Sydney.

If this podcast didn't exist, what podcasts would you feel is most influential for you in terms of guiding relationships? What podcast Have you listened to out there in the world that has given you the best advice to go like, Hey, here's how you can do this and not

fuck it up. I'm gonna take a different I'm not gonna answer your question. I'm gonna answer a different question. That's fine. Not as far as advice goes, but the suicide buddies podcast, two dudes talking about mental health issues and talking about depression and talking about suicide. It's a really great podcast, but their friendship and the way that they talk to each other is really different from the way that I grew up experiencing friendship between two dudes. Yeah. So it's, it's a really good model for me. For like how you can be like caring towards your new friends. And that is a relationship. That's not a capital or relationship but it's a relationship relationship. So that's, that's a really good model for like, how do you can be friends and caring and loving towards each other and still be kind of dipshits

tip I would have to say the boogie monster podcast as it is two comedians talking about cryptids and conspiracy theories and mostly fried chicken, but it is the dynamic between the two of them, and their outlook on their differences from their places in society that is so golden, and how they genuinely care for each other.

They do they do have an affection for one another. I would agree with that. So I don't have a podcast that I necessarily model relationships after, I would say because I, you know, my favorite podcasts is reply all and I say that they have kind of an unhealthy dynamic and they're there. Friendship, they beat up on each other. But I would have to say that the most sort of life changing podcast for me has been invisibie. Leah, because although I have, you know, sometimes I don't necessarily see eye to eye with the host. I do feel like there are things that in society we don't talk about and in visibility are really offers of you on the human mind and the human experience that is different than what I just see out there in the world. And you know, that podcast brought mindfulness into my life and made mindfulness an important practice to me. And mindfulness allows me to have better relationships with other people because I'm present in the moment.

What about you, Hannah?

Nope, we're out of time.

See motability

I would say it's not a podcast, sorry. That's okay. But if you're gonna go out and listen to something, the thing that's most helped me in relationships of all kinds this year is a recording of a live talk that Britney brown did. Rising strong as a spiritual practice. And that has been applicable sort of in a fresh way every month for me this year, has a lot to do about tackling strong emotions being in the moment and making the most out of sort of those pivotal moments in relationships where things can go badly or they can go really right. So I'd say check that one out.

We say that that name and with the thing Yes, again,

rising strong as a spiritual practice, which is a talk by Rene Brown. Awesome. Thank you.

Why don't we go ahead and wrap this up? This is our first episode. We're an hour sonica ciao.

Bella sorta done, Brian for weather and sports as

close to the building.

That's a good fully gas Yeah, and then really yes and my improv.

I think that polyamory is a yes and experience.

Hell yeah. And it's a life skill.

Yes and is a life skill. Please keep listening, check out our next episode. And make sure that you subscribe to us. Please drop some reviews on iTunes we can be found on all the major podcast platforms. Again, you can check out our website www.podpodcvltcast.com

cvlt with a v

cvlt with a v

And you can access our social meteors and send us a message. Talk to us. Whatever.

You've just heard the Pod Pod Cvlt Cast podcast with your hosts, Max, Chastain, Hannah and Erik. Our theme song is Spencer Blues by Lobo Loco break music is buy Goberino subscribe to our podcast on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play or you are favorite podcast destination. Thanks for listening