Senior Citizens Advisory Board Meeting-090220-converted
5:09PM Sep 11, 2020
It is my understanding that this is not being live streamed that
that is correct and it is not being live streamed recording and we will upload to YouTube in Longmont public media.
Alrighty, um, as far as roll call, I, I will run through who I have here. Please if you will say, I are here to confirm that Sarah Erie,
Michelle pretty good. Here.
Um, myself Janine, Karen time here, jack here. And art. Hannah. Here.
She's here. Right. And Marsha Martin, you're a Do we have any guests that I I didn't record?
I don't think so.
um, just in review of protocol for any podi
we'll do that by raise of hands.
You know, to notify us if you are leaving and three entering the meeting.
public is invited to be heard but we have no public this morning.
Has everyone had the opportunity
minutes from last meeting and if so, on Are there any corrections?
It looks good to me.
Okay, do I hear a motion to a second meeting? Okay.
I did. I did.
I moved to accept them. Thank you.
Old Business Report for staff regarding accesses accessing city services Michelle?
Yes. So thank you. Hi everybody.
Um, so we have put together trainings for the city. The city has a training program called clue which stands for city of Longmont University, and brandy in particular Keller has put together a couple of different trainings that we have put through the clew program, most specifically on dementia, and it was part of a county wide effort around being dementia friendly. And so she's had really, I think, pretty good response about doing that. We also opened up our Medicare basics classes and our advanced directive classes to city employees, and they could get clew credits for those programs. So we have an opportunity to do a customer service sort of approach and possibly do that maybe in conjunction with our youth services staff that looks at a broader customer service piece to address some of the concerns that I think Susan and others have raised around
With who may not be able to hear who may not be so technologically savvy, etc. So we're pursuing that, as you might guess some of our training programs right now with the city with the closures and the restrictions. We're not going gangbusters, but we are doing something. So Brandi and I have talked about that. And we're moving that forward. I did add an item under new business that I think might give us some more information. And I'm curious to have that discussion before Brandi and I move this any further. So one of the questions we have is, is this an appropriate training, provided that we can get it through the clew approval process that any of you would also like to be a part of as a trainer, like co train with brandy? So that's kind The question to the board about how we move forward with this.
First in the show, would you explain what the clue is?
The clue. So there is actually a Board of Regents of made up of city employees, and you can propose a training class and that board decides whether or not it's appropriate or not. So there isn't an approval process. And it's made up of city employees. Thank you. You bet.
The show what does that volunteering for tail action? Actually,
you know, Janina is a great question. I think brandy has a pretty good handle on the format for a class, but I think it would be co presenting and being available for questions and any follow up that attendees may want to to ask about. I think it It helps to have an older adult be a part of a training and serving older adults. That's sort of my thinking on that.
So if it's co hosting and being available for questions and feedback, you know, I would be interested.
Okay. Great. Thank you.
Susan, I'm gonna have brandy catch up with you. Okay,
Sarah, it would depend on schedules and all that kind of stuff.
I mean, like, that's a big interest of mine.
Right. I think it's got some great potential.
Any other thoughts?
When we get to that item under new business, I think we'll have some fun with this. So
Next on the agenda is comments regarding sustainability. And
first of all, Did everybody get that handouts the packet? I did. It was quite lengthy. JACK, I don't know if you want to do a kind of a summary opening or what you need from the board with regard to that. And Marsha, I know you've also been very involved in the sustainability and some of the climate action work. But if there is some specific feedback that would be helpful from the board, now's your time.
Well, most of the meetings
Can you hear me? Yes, yes. Okay. Most of the meetings are pretty lengthy, and a cup full of information. But maybe I'll try to summarize what's important.
And maybe we give you one page Is that fair?
Works for me.
I think what's what's most important is if there's something coming, something the board needs to know about some input from the board regarding sustainability and the city's work in this area. This is a great opportunity to use the board for some feedback. Okay.
Try to do that before next meeting.
Okay. Marsha, do you have any, you know, updates, at least from your perspective and your involvement?
Well, you know, I, I
am not able to go to the sustainability board meetings, even though I would just as a member of the public, because I have a conflict with a board meeting that I really am the liaison to. So, um, I don't get to Know what they are thinking.
I'm thinking that I'm going to play hooky
at the next ltda board meeting and and go to the sustainability board. Just because I was puzzled by some of their responses to the Climate Action Task Force recommendations. They seemed to be the most conservative of all the review boards in terms of what they thought could be done, which I found surprising.
i understand the the necessity for maintaining social equity as we go through big changes like this. But it wouldn't be an emergency if we didn't if we allowed the social equity requirements to stop things from happening. They need to change the way they are implemented, but they shouldn't be a barrier. And I feel like we maybe could have some input into that, you know, in terms of let's look at this in terms of enabling communities with special needs.
assuming that special needs are a roadblock. So that's that's my general feeling about it. But I don't have any specific examples.
All right, any feedback from what you read of the materials that were sent to you that you want to offer to jack right now? Anybody else?
I mean, to be honest, that one now can say Huge packet of information and I did not review it before the meeting today so I don't have input for that reason I whenever they produce things they do produce it in large volumes and so sometimes for me getting through it and completely understanding it can sometimes be a challenge. So I'm just being honest about that.
I understand this is a challenge for me. You also
are really glad you're going to those meetings jack.
Meeting. We had some difficulties and I did not go to the meeting and I have not received the the the notes but the was another meeting that took place for the state. And it has to do with greenhouse gases, pollution reduction roadmap. And there's only a few notes. So when my time comes, I could discuss what was taking place at that is good. But the state does preempt local things. So I think it's important to think about what the state has to say about sustainability. Because that's where the money comes from. And that's where the political clout comes from. So that's something to consider. Thank you.
Does anyone have any other comments regarding that? Moving on, to on a business to other Does anyone else have any other old business
I'm not sure this fits in this point in the agenda. Tell me, I had a few things I wanted to mention about the current state of the census. Let me do that now. Sure. Okay. Um, as of the end of August, Colorado's return status is that 68.3% of households have responded. We are at least 10% percentage points I head of Wyoming and Montana, which are the other two states in our region. So we're doing pretty well. Um, but I wanted to encourage you, if there is anybody among your acquaintance, who you feel has not responded might not have responded, please urge them to do so. Take collection of data for a general census will end on the on September 30. Oh, there's just this month left is fine. As the sparrows outreach people they call mobile assistance. People are going around to locations like groceries library will district might be open for in person, and then so forth, to do outreach to people at those locations. There's also available to 501 c three organizations 1000 $1,000 grants this month the applications must be submitted by September 15. Two specifically, do outreach in rural areas. I don't think that we count on anybody from London that would be likely to apply now from one of those Instagrams to outreach or if you know, somebody that might please ask for further information about that or recommend to them that they apply. And there's one other thing that wanted to mention According to the Census Bureau's the update in person visits or homes, or they've had no response or going on now, and it is possible that you will get an in person visit Even though you've already responded online or by phone or mail otherwise, and they don't want people to be upset about that possibility if somebody comes knocking on your door, the most this has not occurred to me. But the most frequent reason or those visits would be that there was some discrepancy in the address that what you reported, when you respond to the questionnaire was a different address than what they had on their records from post, post office hours, local government authorities and so forth and all of the sources that they use before the count, in know which places they should be counting, and they have to resolve that discrepancy. So, I guess the word is, please be nice to them. person who might knock on your door and understand why they might need to ask you a few more questions. You know, they do.
check. I don't know what percentage of the home visits are for that purpose, but for those two reasons you might know somebody calling at your door in my case, rang the doorbell. I would be so shocked because it hasn't been wrong more than once or twice since March. So I'm thankful anyway. Any questions about that?
Sarah, do you think that um we should put something in one of our regular emails that's coming out and and both the Spanish and the English emails and should we emphasize the The door knock piece or should we emphasize you can still call it what do you think the emphasis should be? I guess is really my question.
Well, I think it would be right to do that. And I think the major emphasis is, who is this month? Do it as of September 30, the time is up. Okay. And you might just say that there are some special Oh, no, I don't know how to. Um, we might just say if you have already responded, there might be some question that the Census Bureau has about your address, and that might cause them to send a person to your door to clarify that problem.
So in addition to getting folks who haven't completed the census, Somebody might knock on your door with follow up questions.
Yeah, something like that. But it would not be very common. But don't
I yeah, I worry about opening the door there for scammers, you know?
it might be better just to encourage people to respond.
Yeah, and I can check with Carmen and Aaron to see if they've got something ready to go. about that. But really, what you want to emphasize is the September 30 deadline. Okay. All right. I can do that.
Sara, question I have is, I mean, a I know good. Well, we'd love to have 100% on this, but
fairly good number compared to the past or where we add on that?
actually had 68
Oh, I thought I heard at six. I'm sorry, I was really excited.
Um, I don't know the specific numbers. But my impression is that given the difficulties with the lockdown and so forth, that 16 is pretty good, especially here in other states in our region.
Okay. Well, I was like I said, I thought I heard a six. I said, Wow, that's great.
Well, not quite that great.
Thank you that was all but I think it's an excellent idea to put a reminder in newsletter.
Janine did something. Change your voice? is very garbled
Oh, I didn't mean anything
to you and then see
it's better. No
one else baby should sleep the meeting and come back in.
If you need Why don't you try maybe leaving the meeting and coming back in or alternatively if you have a pair of headphones maybe that you could plug in very strange that it was working in and not working
You have a little Darth Vader going on there, Janine so.
Okay, bye. We'll see you in a minute.
Isn't technology fine?
No, it is not fun.
Especially if you're ignorant, it's tough.
I had an old laptop at home that I was says it was a city laptop that I was using, but it had no microphone or camera capabilities, and it could not. So all of the meetings I was participating in from home, I had to use the chat function to give any input and I know that some of My colleagues really appreciated that because it muted me to some degree.
but Robin got me a new camera and now now I don't have that anymore so I get to fully participate. All right, Janine, you're back. Am I bad? Can you hear me now?
Yes. More Darth Vader. Well, I'll
tell you what my cat walked by. I don't know. Maybe she has some bad karma this morning. At
Janine, huh? your camera's not hooked up.
I want to see you. You want to see me? Yay.
um, October agenda item proposal.
So this has my name on it. But Sarah, you might be able to lend some input here. Carrie Middleton works for Boulder County area g Area Agency on Aging. And I understand she did a session with the county aging Advisory Committee on ageism, changing the narrative. And she is available if that is something this board would like her to come and present and participate. It is about an hour and a half commitment. So it would be the majority of your October or other board meeting. Should you decide to do that. Um, so Sarah, why don't you jump in and talk about your experience and what you think.
Okay, um, I think it might be very good. Oh, we're in the middle of a three part discussion of this issue at the area aging Council. Friday is our next meeting and this will be Stage two of the discussion. And there were some things
of the earlier discussion and the
the preview of a meeting on Friday that I was going to share on my report. But there's one thing that I would like to read, which might give you some food for thought about whether would be a good idea to do this. And she sent out as part of a packet for our Friday meeting, four or five different without comment, things that she wanted us to take a look at, and I hope they might trigger some thoughts. Most of those were greeting cards that are offensive to older people. And actually The ones that she sent were not nearly as bad as many of the ones that just see at the supermarket. But anyway, this is a
And I'd like to just read it and then get response. See what you think about this? I don't know the source of this. I don't know anything about it other than this brief statement. Would you know, Colorado's state budget pays for essential services like education and public safety and our transportation system that define our daily quality of life. Unfortunately, our aging population and a series of amendments between made to our constitution over the last several decades have created a fiscal conflict within our state budget. That's eroding our ability to sustain Quality of Life, unquote.
I have a comment.
I think right now, um, our state, our communities, all of us are experiencing so many challenges in so many ways that you know, diving into this kind of endeavor at this particular point in time is probably something that I wouldn't do I would really put it on the back burner because, you know, I'm thinking about
day to day living challenges.
that's just my opinion. For me, it's not a priority. Right, right this minute right now.
Well, let me tell you what I took from this whole statement. I think the point was the second sentence says, unfortunately, our aging population and then constitutional amendments have created a fiscal conflict. And it sounds to me like whoever said this and I'd be willing to bet a lot of money was the legislator. I'm saying that moment on our aging population. The fact that they're making it hard. We are making it hard for me statements have a good quality of life. So I think the point was that ages are not necessarily the annoying a sensible things like offensive greeting cards in other things that indicate us respect to older people. But a lot of our assumptions about what government should be doing or not doing. Our include an assumption that America that in our society right now, older people are getting more than their share, or that they are causing problems rather than contributing to the overall good so I ice I think that although the first installment of our
AC was somewhat superficial, the second one coming up, I think he's gonna dive into more of these subtle
aging population is not included as a positive part of
That makes them sense.
I'm sorry that that this has come up during the middle of our discussion because I might be able to write about that my phone is ringing. ignore it. I might be able, after Friday to give you more information about what she would present.
So I think you know, the Oh Go ahead, Marsha.
Oh, no, good. Michelle, you do you first?
I think to Jenny's point, you know, as we look at things like racism, racism in the moment versus systemic racism. And I think that that ageism is also that it is also in the moment when I hear somebody talk about that darn senior, which is a phrase I just can't abide.
then the policies and the things that become more systemic that are ajuste. It's both and, and I, I am curious, it carries approach to changing the narrative around racism. And what does that entail, I mean, around a ageism. And what does that mean? And I heard it had good responses to AC. I don't know where it goes other than I feel like it needed a beginning. And it may influence what we do in terms of our customer service approach and some of the things, how we present the long month Senior Center. One of the things that now clearly after seven months, is we're going to have to re position the long month Senior Center, we're going to have to re reposition us and what we do. And is there an opportunity in this sort of a rebirth or reopening or repositioning that this information might help us really look at and do something better? And different, so I appreciate there's a lot going on in the world right now. And we're all sort of being asked to look inward and outward in terms of our relationship to what's going on in the world. So I appreciate Sarah, your, your, your example of the cards versus policy? Because it is it is both and and lots in between,
I'm sorry, do
you need to respond to Michelle? Because I had a different take on it?
Well, yeah, I would like to respond to what you said or what Michelle said. And maybe we should broaden our discussion and include those other isms that you mentioned. Because I think there's a lot of commonality that we don't think about and last interchange. I had with Carrie, which was this brief was that the important issue for me is that first the dignity of an individual should be the key and that we should not be lumping people together as old people or as specific religious or racial or ethnic group or any other group or subgroup within our society as being the important distinction about that person. And so, you know, it could be we should have a broader discussion that would include ageism, but other things. That's what I wanted to comment.
I think that's true. The thing that I wanted to say was, um, it's important not to not to first throw the baby out with the bathwater, because the the statement About the fiscal fiscal constraints were under is true and what the last legislature did to try to mitigate it was put a Gallagher amendment repeal on the ballot which would allow um, which would allow the state to more realistically balance the value of the different assets that the state has in terms of private property. Because right now you know, the the real value of our residential property has exceeded the real value of of our has proportionately increased in respect with respect to the real value of our industrial property and that has distorted our tax base in a way that's very difficult for makes it difficult for government to operate. But the other part of it is that that as a legislature would tend to do focuses on the liability of the aged intent in terms of there is a segment like in any other segments that is in demographic segment that's needy. And there's a segment that has special needs, which is true of every demographic segment. But they're ignoring the asset and and, oh, you know, what, what, we have found in Longmont, since older adults have been less visible in the community than before. Because of quarantining themselves or self isolation is that we can't get along without us. You know, I mean, we're, we're big volunteers. We're big donors because we've most of us have achieved financial security and are in a phase of life where we're considering giving back. And I think it is important to emphasize that in any messaging about this demographic.
I think that that is one major point of what Kerry is trying to do in her reframing exercise is try to emphasize the positive role of older people in our society and also to make it clear that you might not be an older person today, but if you're lucky, you will be far off future. And we're all in this together is one of the important points to remember. It might be that October and I guess I'm Thinking about right before the election might not be the most fruitful time to take on a philosophical discussion like this. But I think that it's one that in the future we should have.
JACK, you were gonna say something?
Yes, I was. There's an overriding factor to everything we're saying. Um, COVID has put a lot of people out of work several million. So that means monies from taxes are not flowing into the central budget of the federal government. And those monies are distributed down through states, counties and cities. And unfortunately, those monies are becoming less and less as COVID gets worse and worse. And there is a political aspect to some of this, but I don't want to discuss the political part.
I think we have to think about the future After traveling in the service all over, I think we have a great Senior Center. I'm not saying that because you're president, it happens to be a fact. And we're fortunate as a senior, reaching my 80th birthday, I always thought I was real young. But that's not true anymore. But the point is, that's going to be an overriding factor with what we can do. Because your budget at the senior center as you depend upon monies coming down through the city, by the state by the county, and unfortunately, some of those monies might be less and less as time goes on. Unless we find a vaccine to do away with COVID. And I just feel this is always an overriding factor for the near future.
bothers me, but there's not much I can do about it.
I have something I think is important. To share this point, I had an appointment actually with my physician there and was discussing covid vaccine and how that's going to be dispensed and priority and so forth. And he share with me and he is very active with
health organizations that seniors should probably be aware of the fact that although they are at highest risk, that they may not necessarily be the priority to receive vaccines first. And I was kind of shocked and taken aback by that, but I do think That that is an older adult issue that is really very acute right now, and probably gets my focus, you know, maybe more than parts. So, you know, perhaps that's something everyone can be thinking about and looking at, is there anything that we need to do ahead of time for any statements we need to be making or, you know, do we pursue anything in and around that particular issue?
reference to Karis material
and this Part of the PowerPoint that was sent out to us in advance of Friday's meeting. This is a slide called reframing vulnerability. And instead of talking about seniors as needy, or victims of whatever policy you're talking about reframing would be emphasizing interconnectedness and our responsibilities to each other regardless of age, or specific situation that the individual has. And he suggests that we avoid labels that suggest weakness or separation from society. And the first example in the PowerPoint is reframing language about over 19 Instead of talking about, you know the society as a whole sacrificing for people who really need it, that is older people or people in nursing homes or some other, soon to be weak part of the population, that we explain how we can prepare for everyone's health situation and talk about the the reality of the virus for everybody. While we also stay home today, we see fewer new cases tomorrow. By keeping our physical distance we slow the spread. This protects those who are most at risk, and the availability of the life saving health care we all depend on. In other words, not by pointing out the old folks in nursing homes that were responsible to take care of and sacrifice for
temperature read on this subject is that it does generate a lot of conversation and difference of thought, which is wonderful. But perhaps not October. Is that so for not October, is that if you would nod your head yes or a thumbs up? Not October. Okay. Do you want it this presentation and this conversation sometime in the future? Yes, but not October. Okay. All right. So Sara, maybe you and I could talk offline. I can talk to Carrie and we'll see what what makes sense.
But I made one more
my thought that we should try to integrate this discussion about ages and into a broader topic of how to treat everybody in our society more fairly and with and give everybody more dignity. I got a questionnaire survey from my political party and whose me jackets for the mentioned politics, then I'll not mention the party but I think everybody knows where I am.
And they want me to list
you know, there were seven or so six or seven different concerns about you know, what should be done to make our our country better. And this was sent. Got it yesterday, or, yeah. Monday, I think racism was not in that list. And I have been well, first I was angry and I was astounded and I you know, how can major political party and my my very own which I love, you know, the thinking about Gee, what do we need to do to make our country better the first of September and not even include that in the list of choices about your concern. So, I think it is essential for us to be talking as a anytime time we can get together with a group of our fellow persons. We need to be taking into account you know, what's happening to the society, in terms of how we treat other people and how other people treat us and whatever subgroup we may belong to That's, that's why I think session is really important.
Thank you. Thank you for a lovely rail.
It's, um, it's been quite interesting for me, because I turned 60 last year, and I don't have much gray hair, but I certainly have acquired quite a bit in the last five months, let me tell you, but, um, how many people seem surprised at my age and I am quite, I'm really, really okay with saying I'm, I'm an older adult now. I'm 16 and I feel kind of excited about that, you know? And now many people are like, Oh, no, no, you can't be and it is. It is offensive in a different way. Like, I don't know, I can't explain it.
I'll be 70 in a year.
And do people say oh my gosh, you don't look 70 it's like, ageism comes in lots of different ways. And, and so like, I see gray hair, white hair, I'm ready for it. You know, I see mom her and But anyways, it's interesting. It's interesting how it plays out. I will talk to Carrie. I will put this further out. And I appreciate the conversation today. And I think this is a conversation that's going to keep happening and at a national level, certainly. isms are going to continue to get addressed. Hopefully, that'd be my wish. All of them. Okay.
Does anyone have anything else that they would like to share on this subject? Hey, I'm moving on we need to discuss reopening identifying concerns restrictions.
So here's kind of where we're at public health is now you have, in addition to doing a proposal to our city manager and and my boss Karen, we also have to do a proposal to Boulder County Public Health, and they will do a walkthrough of the senior center. I'm generally speaking, this is where I'm headed, which is a possible November 2 opening possible with registered activities only. So we might do for example, a drop in shuffleboard um, but there would only be four people Who could come and play and they would have to sign up ahead of time. So they would have to register for a drop in activity. Or it could be a film that the staff have planned and you still have to register and the chairs would be six feet apart, that kind of thing. So we're looking at opening from nine to three as a possibility or nine to four something along those lines. And we would only be using the gym and rooms DNA for
We are continuing to do the one on one with staff and customers for basic needs. This would be wellness, recreational, educational kinds of activities. Meals on Wheels is going to continue to do home delivered only at least through the end of the year. And so the dining room would be off limits, we would restrict access to the dining room and the commercial kitchen for sure. If we if we opened in November, we would have health checks we would have people come in through the front door, do the health check temperature check direct people to the room they're registered for and we would have everyone exit out the East entrance. We would not serve coffee or refreshments for anything but people would certainly be allowed to bring their own water bottles. And then a snack which is especially important if you have something like diabetes or or another health issue that you really, you really do need to have some food sustenance
um Quick question. Are our water fountains down like they are every other place?
Yes, you could fill a water bottle in the little kitchen but the water fountains will be out of commission. Um, so that's kind of a general approach we're taking in our proposal which we have not submitted yet, but it does include regular sanitizing of before and after every activity. So we have to make sure that we have staff and custodial staff available to do that. We are not looking at opening up lashley Street Station. This is really about the senior center reopening the senior center for some activities. That go the fall go is getting ready. We're in this last edit Now, and all of the programs are going to be virtual. But if we can do some hybrid activities in November, we will do that part that virtual in part in person. So this is the beginning, we are still safer at home. Because the majority of the folks who come here are over 65 public health may say, Yeah, no, you're not opening November 2.
Do you know of any senior centers in Colorado that have opened? Yes.
Yes. And in Boulder County, Lafayette Senior Center is doing some academic activities Pardon me. But boulder is not open yet. Lewisville is not open yet. Though. They are also writing some reopening plans. Brighton not open. I just got their newsletter today. They are not opening at all.
Michelle, I've been thinking contemplating, you know about what I can, what I can do to help. And I'm wondering if it volunteering to help with sanitizing or greeting people or taking temperatures if extra staff is needed that I am certainly available to volunteer. Thanks to help in that area. And I'm wondering if if volunteerism at the senior center is would even be considered.
Yeah, and that's that's a great point and something I could weave in and at least, you know, to have a conversation with public health, and with the city leadership about that, thank you for saying that. Yeah. Did you have something?
Yes, Michelle are the sports like shuffleboard? And the films? Are each person going to have like a number of things going to be staggered? So everyone gets an equal shot at playing shuffleboard or coming to see a film.
So Robin has worked out a within our current registration system. And it would be at this point first come first serve, but we could do that.
So I have a couple questions. One is, what is the do you look at it from, like the maximum number of people who would be in the building? And then that's kind of how you're coordinating? Or, yeah, anyway, that's one and then the other is prioritizing Like, I think with all the isolation, that people have been enduring, you know, what are the highest return kind of activities that, you know, you guys could could initiate or open up early on that would maximize, you know, the minimal number of activities that would maximize, you know, the kind of getting people back on track.
Great, great, great point. So, one of the things is we would not do activities like cards, which are about sharing the face cards, we would try to pick activities that there was no sharing. We have talked about picking a mix of activities. So shuffleboard versus a film versus exercise, so we have some variety of things. But probably We are doing two things in the morning and two things in the afternoon. And that's it.
That's what I was curious about. Yeah,
we have to really use the bigger spaces the gym and the end rooms, Dini.
Lafayette is doing one activity in the morning and one activity in the afternoon. And the cleaning is a part of the disinfecting and cleaning as a part of that. We think we could do too, because in rooms, Danny, you can come in to the door and exit out the door. You don't even have to go in the lobby. So it does have either staff or to Julian's point of volunteer who has to be willing to take charge. So right now we are softball players are playing softball, but the league canceled, so they are responsible for managing themselves and as socially distant and Risk minimizing way, but we are doing golf at the golf courses, Megan and Larry or Carrie are there, one of them every Friday. They're checking people out there, making sure folks are socially distancing. I mean, it's all of that. It's, it's fairly staff intensive. And we probably can't do a lot of activities because of that.
and the fact that Meals on Wheels, we're going to have to really restrict that. If, if meals on wheels were to open right now. We would have to commit to cleaning the restrooms every 30 minutes, which means we would keep a custodian in the bathroom all day. I mean, it takes 30 minutes to clean and then you'd be doing it again and then you'd be doing it again. It'd be very, very challenging to do anything else. So
with Azure all that,
so with those two, I mean, just given the physical space constraints, is it like 15 people in the building? Is it 30 people at a given time in the morning in the afternoon between two activities or so we are still
under as employees as an organization at 50%. Our city manager wants us organizationally to be 50% or teleworking 50%. Here, that doesn't mean that I can only have 50% of my staff here. That's an organizational wide figure. But we're trying to keep to about 50% in the building of staff. The other challenge with the number of people in the building, Michelle is that now, employees who have children
are needing to be home with their kids.
And so we're trying to work around some of those employees schedule conflicts, as well. So there is a space calculator that the governor's office put out. It is, fluctuates between six feet of social distance to 12 feet almost. And you have to allow for people to walk in and take a seat, get up and go to the bathroom or get up and leave and not be more than six feet with somebody. So really, and truly the gym, or D and E are really our only two spaces that we could even do that with. And you really have to tell people when you come in, go to the bar this chair, unless you're a regular bathroom user, then you need to sit by this chair so you can get up and go and come back. It's going to be managing all of that.
Yeah. Michelle Does the gym and those two groups meeting rooms have out you know access to outside ventilation? Do they have windows or doors that can be open side worn and influenced in space.
So the rooms the gym and D and E both have an outside door. Dini has windows that can open but the entire building has a fresh air system that pulls air in. I was on a phone call earlier this week and they are very much discouraging fans inside long term care facilities. So we would not be doing that but we do have fresh air that comes into the building. Okay. So yeah, Sarah.
In terms of planning, programs, or after opening whenever Is there consideration being given to the content? Who dealing with or helping people deal with the mental health problems of isolation? I would have this official or you were talking earlier about
wood are reopening without
talking about how you can safely interact with other people and how you should still avoid it. Are we encouraging any way our clientele to act like college kids and go bananas? Oh, opportunity to socialize? I just like it. On the one hand in isolation does create a very serious emotional problems and the longer we go get worse. And we help people figure out how to deal with that without encouraging them to take unsafe risk.
Exactly. So there would be a health check at the door there would be those rules around wearing a mask staying six feet, hand washing. We have a hand washing station in the lobby and we have hand sanitizer in three different locations, automatic hand sanitizers. So I think that it would not be the college frat party, it would definitely be mindful ness. And we would be limiting things numbers of people. We're, it's a
it's a dilemma.
Yeah. Is Massey gonna be mandatory?
The other question I want to present to you is that there's been a study in northern Italy where this covid by Reich and attached to air particles and travel long distances and thinking about our fires, I would kind of keep those windows to a minimum as far as opening them just a consideration since you do have a air intake system right we
do have an air intake system which not all buildings do, but we do right.
Do you want to tell me Don't reopen? Don't even think about it till January. What I mean I'm curious if what your thoughts are about this, Susan.
I want you to reopen as planned, gradually masked distance, you know, showing people where to sit Doing the health checks, but at least that would give us some experience and hopefully give people like a hope that life will return to normal and some contact to see people and interact even though we have restrictions, it's better than sitting in a zoom meeting, for instance. So along with Janine, I would be willing to help out staff, escort people in or direct them or whatever you decide you need for an hour or two here or there. And, you know,
count me in.
I would also be happy to volunteer
capacity like that.
I do need to share, Michelle that I am very cool. I have mixed feelings. And it isn't a whole lot different than, you know, the conversation about opening up schools
we've never experienced this before. And so, you know, whatever we do, we have to do cautiously with the understanding that we may need to backtrack. Right things still work out. The thing that gives me hesitation is that we are dealing with a group of people that are at higher risk. And that he, you know, I guess that causes me to have a little bit of, you know, concern about opening versus not opening and for some people, certainly The emotional aspects of being isolated have been far more challenging than others. But I can't say that I'm all for it without consideration.
You know, one of the concerns and factors for me about using November is, you know, I don't know where you all live, but certainly here in Old Town, Thompson Park is packed in that as people enjoy the shade, and people are social distancing. And people are wearing masks and being very mindful Roosevelt Park people are using to set out I think, come November. those options, you know, get frozen out. And so watching people being mindful, it'd be I think that we can do this A way that we can continue to practice what we've learned what we're told, works, which is masks and social distancing, and regular hand washing. And if we can promote that, then the folks who, who have been finding ways to take advantage of the outdoors, and the fresh air and whatnot, that we could probably safely provide some options for people, not for everyone, clearly, but we will continue to do the virtual programs, but hopefully we can throw in some mix of things. Are you've been very quiet today. Do you have any thoughts
Well, I just want to let you know I had some prostate cancer last week. So I'm a little I'm still under under the weather just a little bit, but I'm doing well doing very well. You know, I'm one of these individuals that is extremely cautious. And maybe it was a surgery. I don't know that got me to that point. But, you know, I know for a fact that there are so many people and that are just lonely, especially if they live alone. It's really difficult for them to get out. And they have family members that are continually coming in maybe, to say hello and stuff like this without How do I want to put it? I don't know that some of the younger people are quite as cautious as we are on on doing these things. So again, I think as long as we follow the format that you're talking about, being very careful. The one thing I would sure like is that I understand the first come first serve And I think jack might look to this a little bit. But you know, if a person has come in this week already, and you have a list, obviously, I'm sure you'll be looking at, given everybody that opportunity rather than one person havin that kind of a situation. But I mean, I'm not in a hurry. copan but by the same token, I have a wife here at home, who I can communicate with, and there's things like this, but I also have a sister in line Enver who actually had the COVID and we're quarantine for 14 days. And she was going crazy. I mean, she used to call my sister and my wife crying, because she couldn't stand the idea of being alone. Right? So that's just a figure i'm saying is that we try, you know, we try to, first of all, encourage those who are actually Tripoli lonely that are living alone to get involved. And and again, make sure that we provide opportunities for they can get in here. Well, I don't know, once a week, at least, if if they're wanting to do that is what I'm looking at.
Thank you and thanks for just kind of re confirming Jack's point about how and who gets to participate. I appreciate that. And the best to you as you heal, sir.
I go, but I don't. Thank you.
Um, how about Susan then jack and Sarah? How's that? Okay.
So if it's first come first serve. I would like to somehow incorporate putting people at the bottom of the list who sign up and then never show up. I mean, that's been a problem right along. You know, you have waiting lists. People don't say, Well, I can't make it so that others can, you know, avail themselves. Have services. That's like a constant problem highlighted by this worry. restrictions are greater.
Yeah. Great point. Thanks, jack.
Yeah, the Boulder County aging.
Office has a program where you could call the elderly if you apply for this program. It works out well. And I think Jewish Family Services down in Boulder has the same program. And I know I'm starting it soon. And I think that is helpful. It's nice to call people. But you know, I think all of this is dependent upon what the virus does in late October,
right? Absolutely. Yeah, Sarah.
I just like to add my vote for having a system to be sure that everybody gets a fair chance at accessing some of the oddball bite programs if that means that individuals are limited One shot a week or whatever, whatever, whatever is a fair distribution of access. And I also, I am assuming that we have a contact tracing system set up or that will be part of the program, but we haven't mentioned that. And I think we really need a state of the art
in spite of all the protections and restrictions, we find out, there's been some exposure. What do we do about contacting?
Yes, thank you. The registration system would serve for that purpose, but I didn't call it out that way. And I will do that. Thanks. Thank you all for your input. You know, it is still an if, if, if if so that's good. Kind of where we're headed. So, thank you.
I'd like to move on to reports. I'm Marcia. Any any reports from city council?
Um, I think that we should probably acknowledge last night anybody not watched council last night probably everybody didn't want to council last night.
The Longmont housing authority
as I think you all know has fallen on hard times. And the city is in the process of rescuing it and, and Michelle, our own Michelle late is one of the rescuers. And I was actually almost surprised to see you here at this meeting Michelle because it sounds like a massive undertaking. That's that's going on, but we're doing very important work of keeping what 600 800 seniors off the streets.
How many is it Michelle?
Well, there there are seven, six SR buildings and they're at about 100 each. So you're pretty close. Plus the other buildings also have older adults.
Yes. Okay. So a lot of people who don't have a lot of resources deeply impacted by this. We had a long presentation last night about the progress of the reorganization. And it all looks
plausible to me.
The new sharing of resources looks like a lot of money will be saved in the process. Yes, there were many inefficiencies in the 1960s, HUD mandated old organization. And so I am very encouraged by that. And I think that the Longmont of the city of long line is very privileged to have people on IT staff like Michelle, like Harold Domingo's, like Karen and Kathy, who have the skill set to do this because because running a housing authority is is a very specialized skill. I think everybody needs a homework assignment, which is to tell all your friends that that the city's rescue operation is, is being done by local heroes, and that is a wonderful thing. Um, because I'm getting a lot of stupid emails that say, Well, why don't you just hire a property manager. We don't want To pay for Harold Domingo has to be working on it to be running the Housing Authority. He's supposed to be running the city. And, um, you know, that's just so wrong. I don't even know how to charge them in terms of their lifetime mistakes account, you know, because it is a very specialized thing. And, Michelle, you're ducking your head, are you are you hating to be praised?
I'll tell you what I am. I am learning a lot. And the, you know, the lmha staff that are still here are teaching me a lot. There are some amazing folks who are completely committed to affordable housing. It's a good partnership. And, and I'm not sure I'm so so skilled in the whole Housing Authority rules and regs, but I feel like I know people and I know good folks and we have that right now. And I think it's a good, it's a it's a good place to live.
And yes, and and in really, Michelle, that's your role, isn't it into making is making, that the people who live there and aren't sure what's gonna happen to them are okay, and keeping the communities intact and so on.
That's, that's definitely a part of it. And the other is to really support the existing community managers who have not had the tools and the resources and the support, I think, to do all that they want to do. So it's a good partnership. And I really, I applaud the City Council for for making this move at the end of May and giving Harold the permission and direction to do this. I think it's a good it's a really good partnership. Yeah, yeah.
So I would as a personal answer of emails to kill So I would really appreciate everybody talking to their friends and saying what an appropriate and special endeavor This is, and that it isn't something to complain about. It's really people stepping up when there's a need.
Yeah, that's all I have to say about it.
Would be would it be a purpose?
I thought it was muted. Would it be appropriate for us as a board to pass a resolution saying that we feel that this is a good development?
proper use of city staff?
I think so. What do you think Michelle and Misha and Jeanine
like the idea of supporting what you're doing and making a statement about that vote, you know, to the city council itself, and Maybe even, you know, to the newspaper.
Yeah, do a press release.
Yeah, I'm uncomfortable with contacting the press, you know, maybe having something like that maybe having an article about what you're doing and why you've done it. And the successes might take away summer that question mark for people in the community.
So I would rather not be the focus event. I think, if you, as a board want to support City Council's direction, with Longmont Housing Authority, especially in recognition of the number of properties that they own, that are geared for older adults. Sure, but I don't I think it's really important not to single out and one staff person, or any one thing, um, this is something that council agreed to do. And Harold is leading in terms of the city staff and then the lhsaa staff are also a very much a key part of this. So, I would not, I would not want to be singled out in any way, shape or form.
I'd never do that.
Okay. All right. Do we need to make a motion?
I think we do. And I would welcome suggestions about how to word a resolution. So somebody
put some thought into that. And
I just like to point out that in terms of the staffs, both staffs It's a ripple effect, you know, that when, when the leadership steps up, then the people who work for the leadership steps up. And, you know, there's probably very few people that are not touched in some way. Whether it's, you know, just I mean people out door working have to take the initiative more because their bosses is supporting somebody else. And so it is really the entire city that's making an effort and the you know, and the LA staff and the, the two boards, everybody has has is contributing something extra in this in this effort, so
I just want to make sure that that's in there.
Does anyone have Have any suggestions for Sarah in terms of wording? I'm not good at that, frankly, or I give my input Sarah.
Well gotten some ideas from the last two folks have commented there but
it's hard to do this on a fly can can can legal emails, or is that a sunshine law violation?
Somebody write a draft.
I think you can't you can't vote through emails. Right. But I think it can be simple. If what you're saying Sarah is that you support the direction city council has laid out with the relationship between the city of Longmont and Longmont Housing Authority. It can be as simple as that, that you support the city. direction and recognize that it's that it has some positive support for the older adults who live in those communities can be very simple
and apparently cost saving.
Apparently what cost saving
and end with Thank you.
Well, can I make a motion that
the senior advisory board
acknowledge the community and Council for work that they have done
with Longmont Housing Authority. I mean
I think that's fine. If and then the board can choose to second and vote and see
where that goes.
Do I hear a second?
I second that.
All those in favor signify by raising their hand. Please.
And Sarah, can we have you put that together for us?
Oh, yes. And then we submit it to the council. I'll be sure that everybody gets a copy of the wording and then
And say Wait wait wait
yeah, you can't vote but there's but there's no harm in seeing it in advance.
Um, I like to move on to any reports, Sarah, any further reporting from the AC? Well
firstly the reframing project is taking quite a bit of our time and energy. But also, this Friday's meeting will include a panel discussion on housing issues with representatives from Walmart from Boulder County and I think although I don't have that right before me on Several other government entities that are involved with senior population and housing issues.
Sarah who's going to do that from Longmont? Just davee curiosity.
I will have to
zoom and look at the email to give you that name. I can't tell you right offhand. I'm curious about that. If you can send me that. I will take you.
Also, the last meeting
was devoted in part to report on the budget situation because the area aging Council has a technical review committee that does all the nuts and bolts work on reviewing applications for funding making recommendations to missionaries about what things should be funded and also monitoring clients grantees. Well, that's important thing. for fiscal year for AAA has been amended there extended or two months. So the new the upcoming fiscal year which is being funded by the current review will be shortened. And the only other significant thing about that is that a recommendation is that the nutrition or support for access to adequate food that that line item will be increased for obvious reasons
Okay, that's it. Well, I'll get to that name Michelle.
Okay. Thank you, Susan. report on friends.
Yes, they met last week. And they're in the process of accounting for all checks written so that all monies will be at its Great Western now. It's been several months trying to transfer all of their assets there, because Jeanne Cox, the CO treasurer of the fit friends, as the investment advisor for the friends, they're also working on redoing their board manual. They have many new members and they just lost one so there's an opening on it board for another member. And they're also working on their annual campaign and best way to approach it in light of the whole COVID situation. But the great thing that I didn't realize how it worked, they've got an investment portfolio of over $2 million. They have helped to fund many of the continuing education programs, and they've reassigned some monies as needed, directing it to COVID needs, and they're tracking that so not spending as much for the senior center but money is there should we need it to start up again or whatever they're there.
Michelle, any report from TRG
No, ma'am. There's nothing I think our next scheduled meeting might have gotten pushed out to November but I'm not. I'm not sure. But nothing between last time in this one.
All right. And no art any thing from Boulder County Latino coalition.
A Longmont Economic Development Partnership is currently quarterly I believe the next meeting is next month. And jack any additional things for sustainability? Yeah, let me mention something
that took place at the state meeting at the office.
They spoke about
natural and you And greenhouse gases increasing, which is going to affect what's happening around our globe unfortunately, which communities are affected a roadmap to 100% renewable energy by 2040 with bowl climate action, hopefully and a call to action to decrease pollutants. And what the state will be doing is
redoing the their vehicle pool
by increasing electric vehicles, sedans, trucks, heavy equipment, changing some of the building codes and trying to use things that have extreme Efficiency when it comes to appliances
they discuss House Bill
1261 which has an impact and increasing impacts on you uses of hfcs and their rules which is hydro fluorocarbons which in which decreases
that are harmful to our environment. They talked about 2030 goals, clean electricity, energy efficiency, building and industrial electrification. They talked about advanced biofuels Oil and Gas and part of this house bill, I think it might be house source and I thought it was the house, which increases inspectors for fracking sites. And I don't know if folks know there are 50,000 fracking sites just in the county of weld. And unfortunately that helps to increase what I call the crescent of ozone that comes from weld and goes all the way up to the boulder reservoir. And unfortunately, it impacts the elderly as well as such children with asthma and other
So it's important that we do something about what's going on all over the globe, especially here in Colorado. They're talking about having increased inspection There's an important part of this is oil and gas has to be more aware of what they do incorrectly, because they've made large increases in fines with non compliance in fracking sites. They talk about agriculture, coal usage and waste management. And that was about it. JACK, I
have a question. You may or may not know this. What you know what supersedes this state like I know, well, county kind of has their own rules and regulations and given that they're the county that happens to also have the largest number of fracked wells do their rules and regulations supersede those This state
there's a hierarchy. Unfortunately, the feds haven't done very much when it comes to fracking. And as we all know, it all depends. It all boils down to big corporations making big money out of this stuff. And the sad part is most of that fracking gas and oil is exported, because they make more money.
Ah, as far as I know,
the state Supreme Court overruled some of the fracking rules which said that there would not be any fracking within certain counties or the state. So that put a kibosh on certain things. And here in Longmont, you know, we had on the ballot a couple of years ago to keep fracking out of the city limits. But unfortunately with a ruling from the state Supreme Court They said that they could frack but the point is they could be fracking at the city limits, but they go horizontally. Right? I'm not sure if we can check all the casings that go onto the city. And we have some right outside. We live two miles. We're at 17th in pace, and we live two miles from a fracking site. And unfortunately, people are unaware of health impacts because I've listened and listened to some pediatricians. And they talk about certain children having asthma, nosebleeds, and increased problems from all the, shall I say, pollutants that come out of a fracking site, and some of which are carcinogenic, benzene, ethylene and things such as that. And there's also flaring because of the excess methane that's exposed into the environment. You know, as we all know, global warming, so serious problem from anything from coral reefs disappearing and Australia, Key West and so many other places. And the other problem is look at all the serious problems we've had with hurricanes, and just look at the category for that we just had hit Louisiana and Texas. And unfortunately, the federal level isn't doing as much as they could be doing to decrease global warming and increasing natural ways of producing power, like wind energy and solar energy. Because the old excuse they use, they could restore it, but the new storing capacities have very much increased over the last year or two.
So that that basically means we can make recommendations as state can make recommendations at this particular point in time, cannot mandate.
No oil and gas has a lot of clout in my state, unfortunately. And I think Governor polis has done a better job than most in the past as far as keeping oil gas within rang. But, you know, it's big money and unfortunately, well, gas is a big oil maker for the state because we get text monies from them. And it's a problem, but I think health should be more important than making profits, unfortunately. But you know, it's like the old tobacco industry. Physicians and their scientists said that smoking was an injurious to your health. But we all know the results of that and states receive billions of dollars from tobacco industry but people are still smoking but why Oil and Gas and fracking is a problem for this state and it's injurious to one's health.
I think to me now Marsha wanted to weigh in on.
Yeah, um, thanks. I just wanted to say that that there is low. There's local control as of the legislature, but one the last legislature, but one did pass a resolution that changed the main mission of the CEO GCC to include safeguarding health and in and gave that primacy over fostering the oil and gas industry. Um, and also gave the right to make local right regulations as long as they are more strict, not less strict than the state regulations. weld County. He is upset about that, because they wanted to unregulated they wanted they wanted to repeal this the new state regulations and let the oil and gas industry what keep doing what they're doing. And given that there's not a lot of of enforcement mechanisms in place, they're essentially doing that essentially just by looking the other way. The other thing is that the, you know, with legislation, it changes what the regulatory agencies have the right and mandate to do, but then the regulatory agencies have to do what's called rulemaking to put actionable guidelines in place and they have been really dragging their feet on that. So it despite having new members who are not part of the oil and gas industry, the CO gcc and the air Air Quality organization have have just not stepped up to the plate yet in terms of of really making changes that can be acted upon to clean up the oil and gas industry. The other thing that's that's probably relevant to this is that our Longmont and what's the other organization is it jack you might know this is it Colorado rising
I was one of them.
Yeah, they're they are suing the city of Longmont
establish a precedent that cities may in fact ban fracking so that there's they're also suing the CEO GCC who needs and and To to reinstate longmans fracking ban as law and I mean, Longmont doesn't really the way things are now have anything any enforcement action that it could do? It would have to sue somebody outside the city limits and it's then there'd be a whole new thing about whether Longmont has stat has standing to sue. Um, but anyway, those environmental organizations are trying to sue Longmont and if they win their suit, it would establish precedent that fracking bans are part of what is now allowed by law. That, you know, it would essentially over if they won the suit, then it would go to the Supreme Court again, but the Supreme Court would have the chance to reinstate longmans fracking ban.
We think that's going to happen.
No, I don't. And I also hope it doesn't because I don't think it's you know, the people of Longmont paid a lot in terms of expended tax money to do all the things we've done to fight fracking and although there is some drilling underneath union reservoir now, the points of entry are the 220 500 feet outside the Longmont city limits which is supposedly the radius of worst harm in terms of you know, stillborn babies and things like that. Um, so I, I hope that Longmont does not have to pay again for that. Um, you know, I think that somebody who has a current problem like Broomfield or or Erie ought to be
better The burden.
my the legal consultants that I have turned to don't think that it has a very good chance of prevailing that lawsuit. But it's, you
know, it's interesting, you know, the country of fans and Bulgaria ban fracking in their countries.
So to the state of New York, I don't think it's any. I don't think there's any question that it's a terrible practice that shouldn't be done.
you know, you can drill a well without, you know, horizontal, you know, fracking as well. But the other problem is, each fracking site uses three to 5 million gallons of water and we can't afford that water. Just look at what's happening to the Colorado River. It's fyrom is going down precipitously. Unfortunately Yeah, with global warming, we can depend on the mountains. You know, for the spring melt off for our great water supply that we have in Longmont. It's one of the best.
It is unfortunately, it's one of the best partly because a lot of it comes from the eastern slope basins. Yeah. Um, so, yeah, of all the cities in the Front Range, I think that were the best fixed for water. And, you know, where I spend my efforts as an activist is tried to destroy the market for fossil fuels. Absolutely.
The other thing, Marcia, is that
that the legislative Bill 1261 Yeah, increase inspectors and really raised the fines for you know, not doing what they're supposed to be doing with their fracking sites.
Well, that's the deal. You know, it has to be it has to be The rulemakings and money appropriations that have to do that so 1261 right now as it stands doesn't have enough teeth. That's actually why we are Longmont is retaining Dr. helmig because we hope someday to be able to use his measurements to sue somebody, right weld County, I mean, this stuff, the CFTC for not having teeth, all that. So we're, we're, we're trying our best, and we're already spending a lot more money to do it.
But it's a problem for your health. That's the important part.
Okay, no. Sorry.
I'm Sarah, do
you have any additional things to add about these senses committee.
Era said no.
Janine. Janine, I do have a couple of things I'd like to share if I could real quick.
Yep, you can.
So it is my understanding that Longmont united hospital has closed there's a Center for Health and integrative medicine CIM. And I don't know what that means. For us. That has been our primary contact with long united hospital with the presence here at the senior center, pre COVID. Anyways, but we've had their massage therapists, their acupuncturist, their nurses and other great staff who have been here at the senior center. So I just found this out yesterday and I don't have a lot of update what that means and I relationship between the Longmont Senior Center in Longmont united hospital, but I will be finding that out in the days ahead. Susan, did you have a comment about that?
Most of us have outstanding gift cards with money on them. I mean, are they gonna announce it? Are they gonna send checks? What are they doing?
Yeah, I haven't heard that yet. But that is one of the things on my list.
Yeah, yeah, the person that did the acupuncture is left the area, I think.
She was terrific.
The other announcement that I wanted to make is that I applied for funding through Boulder County area agency on aging. We have had a long term partnership with them
deliver some special specific programs in Longmont, the short term Assistance Program, the respite Assistance Program choices at home program etc. And so I will be meeting with them later this afternoon, we will are hoping rather than doing individual memorandums of understanding between the city of one month Senior Services and Boulder County area agency on aging, we can do one larger
understanding. And at this point, I've asked for the funds which is about $27,000 to go to the Friends of the senior center, rather to the city because I get a quicker turnaround in writing checks, but anyways, I'll be I'll be working on that and I'm very excited to move this to that to that place. So I did want to share those two things real quick.
We have no public invited to be heard. Does anyone else have anything else? Sarah,
got a question from Michelle, regarding when you mentioned the health services that have been provided by Integrative Health. Has there been any more action about what care
Yeah, we have put all of that on hold dough. I understand Boulder County Public Health did let Lafayette open up their footcare So anyways, those have all sort of been put on hold until we figure out when we're reopening.
Yeah, thank you.
Does anyone else have
I like to hear emotion. to adjourn our meeting.
I'll make that motion. I'll second.
Seconded by Susan. Okay. Like Thank you all very much for your participation today. And it's really wonderful to see you and to be with you even if it is on a screen.
And look forward to seeing you all next time.
Thank you, everybody. Bye