TalkingHeadz with Scott Johnston of Google
5:29PM Feb 18, 2019
Hello and welcome to Talking Heads. Today we'll be talking to Scott Johnson of Google.
Welcome to Talking Heads. Evan, where are you today?
I am in sunny Orlando for HIMSS, the global healthcare conference. And I'm, you know, my first session in Orlando before enterprise Connect, which will also be in Orlando.
Excellent. So I'll see you at enterprise connect in Orlando in Orlando is not a exciting town as far as food goes. But, you know, we travel a lot. And I'm wondering if there's any particular like, like when I come to see you. For example, in Boston, I always make an effort to get a bowl of clam chowder. chowder, tell me a little bit about your travels from a from a culinary point of view is there any particular foods you look forward to in your travel?
well I like to go local so I try to find you know what's the local dish and really go all in on that local dish so for example alligator you're in Orlando delicious fried grilled barbecued glazed perfect for the mid Florida section of the world but when we were in Dubai we were really into you know all the local Middle Eastern Arabian food so you know go local that's always the best
That's pretty good food and to buy it wasn't a loving Lebanese food was loving it we have a lot of good Lebanese food but what mostly what we didn't goodbye as I recall was the shisha
Shisha you know we did I was in Monaco as you know. And we went out for shisha in Monaco and I was with Zeus Kerravala and his wife Christine, and we did that in Dubai. So we decided to do it in Monaco. Do you know what a cost for a the cheapest hookah pipe was for an hour and a restaurant?
$3 and 99 cents
over 100 euro?
Well, it's Monaco isn't for the faint of heart. When it comes to wallet, spending cash, you know, there is a reason they have the Grand Casino there.
So, you know, it was just terrible feeling. I'm walking around Monaco, this is beautiful place. It's got this incredible history and, and I really had this realization that there's nobody here. There's nobody poor here and then and then. And then it hit me. I met
the key thing you got to do in Monaco is go and see the Grand Prix them. Monaco, the great, great race that they have there.
Well, they had a retro race. They were bringing out all these old cars from the 60s that race cars from the old the old race and I think that was even funny, and there were some really beautiful old old cars there, there, you know, race numbers on them. And
Yeah, I did. I did retrace the root of the Grand Prix one year, but it was in a Ford Fiesta. So it wasn't quite thisas, as these incredible machines, but I got a bit of a feel for it, but 100 kilometers an hour.
So, Evan, let's go ahead and start our Hangout with Scott Johnson. Scott's the Director of Product Management at Google. Evan. You probably know him as happy in water. Actually, that's his Twitter handle.
So So Scott, first question for you is who's your boss this week? I know that Diane Greene was on her way out and I think TK is on his way in where are we in that
You know we're just partially through the transition, the which started last year end of the year in 2018, TK's ramping up you know it's obviously a massive surface area to to get up to speed on from you know cloud to GSuite and so they're working through that. But I'd say right now TK is fully you know on board and it's Diana's helping them on the side
let's get into GSuite 2019 you know I think most people think of GSuite they think of Gmail obviously they think of the Docs and Sheets and Slides and contacts and the calendar of course now that's to me like the core but Gsuite's really grown and we're going to get into some of your specific things around communications but give me an idea of what you consider to be the GSuite cores, which is YouTube for example part of GSuite or is it is YouTube separate or how many Tell me draw some lines around what GSuite is?
You know that's a really good question i think i think you're right it is it is there is a really broad footprint and that is often not understood. So really if you look at the core applications I don't think we need to go through YouTube's not part of that. But those, you know, the the docs drive, Gmail calendar and then meetings, voice and chat. Those are, you know, core we've got keep them there for note taking. So there there's cloud search, for example, which will index your, you know, internal corpus and allow you to search across that. So there's a number of different applications. And as we
What about your, what about your devices, or do you include them amongst your sort of solution set or that sort of Google hardware is rather a separate entity
No, we definitely do. And I think Chromebooks are as Dave mentioned, Chromebooks are the cornerstone of that, but you know, mobile device management is is part of GSuite, so that includes any device there, but also Android itself has specific features dedicated to enterprise the work profile, a lot of the lot deeper management into the kind of controls you have. Over a phone. So that's a big piece of it, I think you'll see us continue to invest in in voice interfaces. So you can imagine things in the area of home but obviously not name home. So the whole I think we think about enterprise really as a, as a horizontal across everything when we when we build it
When I think of Microsoft, you know, I think about partners, you know, it's all about partners for them, what is your go to market and has it changed? Is it evolving? Is it the same is it through those those partnerships
You know, it definitely has changed I think as we you know, as we as we got more comfortable in the industry and and really dug in I think we learned that the partners were just so key to what we were doing so i think you know, we've really we've got dual strategy in that area. What is to offer, you know, as part of the, the Suite offer all the core components you might need, but at the same time, recognize that we're not gonna be able to do everything. And there's lots of solutions out there that that are better in certain areas. And so we really do take a build and partner approach. And you'll see that across the board, even someone like Slack, for example, you know, we were delivering drive bots and, and things like that before we even put them in, in chat. So, you know, we're really embracing partners. And I think it's a key part of our business now.
So you've been working pretty heavily lately on on these new real time or, you know, communication capabilities. So let's, let's talk a little bit about Hangouts. Now. Hangouts. Well, I think came out with what was it Google Plus? I don't know what year that was quite some time ago. It was originally only available on Google Plus was one of the main reasons to join Google Plus, as I recall eventually moved over to the regular GSuite and in fact now google google plus is going away. So it's kind of outlived its its, its birth. Right? And and now we call that hangouts classic. Yeah. And it's approaching end of life here pretty soon, and it's going to be replaced with some new apps. And this is probably what's been keeping you up late at night, the last year. So, so so. So the first question is,
you know, as these new apps come out, you seem to be blowing up hangouts at the separate apps, the meeting component, the chat component, and of course, Google Talk is a separate voice component help us understand the logic behind the separate apps. Isn't there kind of a trend these days to have you know, less apps witching What are you trying to accomplish here?
You know, I think that it's something that that we we talked a lot about with folks really as we saw asYou mentioned it, you know, hangout started out in the consumer space, which is common for our apps as it grew. Then in in usage in the enterprise, we found our users wanting more and more direct access to specific user flows. So when they want to make a phone call, they want to go into the voice app when they want to, you know, reply to a message they want to drop into the chat app. And same goes for meetings and meetings in particular, you know, it's just such a core part of business that every day that you want one tap access to that. And so you don't want to have to flip through a bunch of different tabs or pains to get into it on the mobile mobile UI. The UI itself in the web is fairly is the same regardless the approach you take on these apps, because you're just jumping between different use flows. But on mobile, we just found that our users were really asking for we're really asking we're really asking for very direct access. And another another point there is that really that we mentioned earlier Really that it also allows for partners. If you go with a partner for one of those core areas, that's also an easy thing to swap in, without having to reconfigure one giant app.
So the modular approach has some benefits like you've described. But it has this big disadvantage that I'm seeing all these headlines that Google Hangouts is going away, and people are freaking out because they use Google Hangouts. And so so I think of that, like, you know, if I compare that to say something like consumer Skype, which today is a very different app than it was 10 years ago, but they've kept that name and nobody ever freaked out that Skype went away. It just kind of evolved, you seem to be going for a much more much bigger approach where, you know, customers are going to have to, particularly administrators are going to have to disable one service and add a new service. It's not going to be as smooth as a transition or is it a home you understand the way you're approaching that?
Yeah, and you know, I think that there's been a lot of confusion in this and it is important to click So I do think one of the things that we tried to do is really to keep that hangouts name to make it clear that this was really a step, you know, step forward, not something where one was ending. And we were starting over again, obviously, we have a history and in this case, it really is just a new version. So even your skype example you know, you still had this transition to, you know, new infrastructure and that's really what we're looking at here is you know, we had this consumer app grow up and then you know, as we added compliance and have we added all the key things that come with enterprise we really needed the next version to be built from the ground up with that in mind and so you know, the transition should be very straightforward I think it gets complex when you get into things like vault which is you know what people use Vault for legal holds and and retention it's a you know, vaults an advanced product and there's a lot of deep requirements there so we do you know we do need our customers to move their vault rules into more you know, areas dedicate
adjusted managing messaging and that's a response to a lot of our admins asking for more control there. And so it's, it's, there are some pieces that really need to be very deliberate in that migration. But for, you know, your average GSuite domain, this really should be something that's, that's seamless.
And the actual user experience will still be as if it's one app. If I'm in the Hangouts chat, and somebody sends me a meeting request, I don't switch apps to go to meet I basically just click on the request, is that is that right? Right?
It really should, the workflows themselves should not change what really it should feel like as an upgrade, right? So read things like reactions have been added rooms have a much more prominent or what channels we call them. rooms have a much more prominent place in the UI because they become so important to teams. So it really should feel like a step forward not something that is a drastically different experience.
Okay. And then, and so and so hangouts classic will go away, it's going to be replaced primarily with hangouts meet, which is the meeting and video conferencing solution. And it's going to be replaced with Hangouts chat, which, as far as I know, I haven't used Hangouts chat. It's kind of like a slack like work stream communications team chat application. And so those two will split hangouts classic was split into those two. And then a third option, which isn't in hangouts today is Google Voice which is a UCaaS offer and so the yes yeah, and all three of these will be available on the G Suite as well as the consumer side or how explain that one.
Correct. So really, the so right now voices available to consumers, actually, not to enterprises. And so we we added that capability that's in that's in beta right now. We can talk in more detail there in a bit. But I think that then when you look at meeting chat, which right now, we we started in enterprise, they will be opened up to consumers really, in the end. You can think of it as the Hangouts classic right now. We'll move to Hangouts chat, the meetings functionality in classic really was invisible direct, you didn't really there was no meeting interface with in classic Hangouts. So really, it's just adding a new dedicated meeting interface through meet. But really, the experience is just an upgrade to chat.
So Google Voice is available in consumer first, I think you're in trials right now. On beta right now. Yeah, in beta right now, and then and then chat is available in business only right now, is it is it going to go to consumer and it will move to consumer Yep. And then and then meet is available in business or GSuite only, and it will go to consumer to exactly and then and then at that time, I mean, I think there's already a deadline. I forget what it is October. Like that, when hangouts classic will go away, but but the intent is that these new apps will be there before before hanging off, classic goes away.
Yes. And I think that, you know, we've set these deadlines as goals. And and really in the end at a top level, we're interested in making a smooth transition, you know, to chat and meet and we will, you know, do that as as necessary, we will change that date. But really, it's so it should be a really seamless experience. I think in the end, we're going to start with enterprise, move them over first, and then we'll move to consumer take what we learned in that move in and apply that to consumer, which is obviously a much broader user base at that point. And so that I think that'll be that'll be nice to follow.
We can we can we can all do hangouts meet now and in the GSuite world, right. Yeah, and Hangouts chat is currently available or not available. Hangouts chat is currently available to GSuite customers. And is Hangouts chat intended to be a simple chat app? Or is it intended to be more of a connector to all your workflow? Like, like a slack type of app,
It's really about team messaging. So, so, you know, more towards this, the slack side is, this is fairly common for us where, you know, you look at something like, you know, our docs, editors, with Docs, Sheets, slides, you know, these aren't consumer applications, they're really productivity applications. So that's what we're building with, with Chad, and meters. It's really about productivity. And whether you're doing this at home with a club or a PTA or your you know, at work, we see a lot of the same flows and so we will continue in that same fashion with all of our apps
is the goal with the separate meet and chat or specifically with me to be as good as or better or different than current Hangouts. Is there you made a comment about, you know, matching the functionality, is there anything that we could look forward to in new features and functionality.
I think that if you look at let's, if we look at chat there already key differentiators. I mentioned reactions earlier we've retooled search itself. And so that is now instant in interface. So you don't have to go through the Gmail interface to do that. There's a number of improvements in the in the room behavior, we added a platform to rooms for integrations as well as packaged integrations and I think that that's so that's a big step for messaging on the meat side. Really, we could we could spend the next couple hours talking about the upgrades there from quality all the way through to, you know, platform support and meeting rooms and the jam board and this is all about. Have a meeting ecosystem that we've been working on for a long time. And so it's a big step for moving from classic to meet in terms of what's, you know, what's possible?
Are these all going to be web based apps, or they're going to be actual applications you install on the desktop.
These are a web based apps. They're obviously Android and iOS as well. And so their native on mobile, but web apps on Chromebooks and others.
Scott, one of my favorite products is is is Google fi and that's getting a lot of buzz lately. Is that a separate silo within Google, or do you have plans to integrate Google file into the whole ecosystem?
You know, we don't have specific plans that we're ready to talk about. I think it's not we are all you know, we're all one team especially when it comes to telephony. And that's, that's a key key part five actually uses a lot of voice itself. Voice infrastructure Google. Voice infrastructure. And so that's something that, you know, you've seen us take consumer facing products and move them into enterprise. And I think that's a that's a logical thing to do just No, no timelines right now.
So let's get into Google Voice for a little bit here, because that's the new one. And that was and I have to say, Google Voice really surprised me you announced it back in and over the summer I think was that Google Next one that was announced and it surprised me because the one thing that somebody asked me what the world doesn't need is a. net new UCssS offer so I I had assume that if Google was going to get into UCAS that you would do an acquisition so help me understand the the rationale behind creating a brand new solution as opposed to an acquisition.
You know, what's interesting is actually we you know, we did start with an acquisition which was Grand Central then that was, you know, 10 years ago we spent we spent that time refining our telephony infrastructure and capability. And really right now you can see it baked into just about everything at Google everything from you know ads to Google Home which allows for native you know telephone calls and that's all you know from our everything we've learned from building out the telephony infrastructure for voice and even down to for example you can dial out in hang out meet meetings rooms that's Google Voice at the core so what was interesting when when we started this was really a turned out that we had the the framework we needed and and also voice and just not come as far as I would have hoped, which is there still is no ubiquitously worldwide compliant telephony solution that's built in a single place some of our customers still get DVDs FedEx to them with their colleagues and so it's interesting because really just that alone I think is a huge would be a huge step forward for the telephony For that market, because it just is still fragmented and a lot of different places, and you're having to come up with solutions based on countries, things like that. So we really did start with an acquisition. We use that to perfect, you know, what we do. And then what we did was we took the voice consumer application added the key things that enterprises need from SLA to vault support we talked about earlier for legal holds and retention. And we also then added PBX functionality for for, you know, inbound calls. I think that we've got a ton of potential there when you've seen what we've been doing with duplex the kinds of things that we can automate, instead of forcing people to, you know, traverse phone trees and
I'm glad you I'm glad you mentioned duplex I've got I've got a pixel film and I have to say call scooting feature is one of my favorite features. Oh I'm so glad for those of you who don't know what that is basically if you're going to call you're not that familiar with don't recognize whatever you can you can hit call screen and Google effectively uses his own voice technology to answer the call and listen to the answer as you get you know Why are you calling Who are you and the colors response appear in near real time on the phone and you can either accept or reject the call based on that you can even you can even this the best part you can even fish for more details you can even say you know I want more details on this date
I was I was wondering why you were never answering me
yeah Mystery solved there so and I commented this I wrote this in one of my one of my things I don't remember where that why isn't this feature on every you can solution that's a great solution every UK companies talking more about about voice box so since you brought this up Can you tell us if your UK has offered will have anything like this built in? You know, I think too early to talk specifics. It is it is where we're headed and this is you know, really you've got we've got a walk before we run
And we got to have that foundation in place but I really think that we're already invoice doing a really strong job with with spam callers and you're seeing some of that also in within the Pixel phone itself so I think that that is an inevitable direction and really where we where we want to be
so now that you're six months into this journey or actually more than six months now so you're not sit back in June who knows when you started the journey but you now sit back and Jim and and now that we're you know, six eight months into this journey since you announced it as there been any major revelations about UCAS that perhaps you didn't fully understand back then or, or is everything pretty much go exactly as planned?
Oh, I've never been on something where it goes as planned. Um, you know, one of the things that I found interesting is that you know, here we've been calling this you know, unified communications for Long time, and yet, it hasn't included included email. And so, and yet, that's, you know the most equitas business communication tool out there, so I think that really has us thinking hard about, you know, what does what do all of how do all of these tie into email and what is that what is how do you want to work efficiently between those mediums. And so I think that's a really interesting area that will be exploring and let me get let me get some
I'm guessing there's an AI application in there.
I don't know. Hey, I No, no, no apps? Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, I think that that's, you know, there's a couple ways to think about that. One is a lot of what we've done in Gmail is broadly applicable to to messaging as well. So you saw spring, you know, Smart Reply, which was in Gmail first to chat Gmail has smart compose which has has been Wonderful feature widely embraced but also just you know as as companies really embrace these mediums there some are better at that they're better at different things and I think that that that is something that that needs to be solved even simple things like moving from an email to a chat and then to you know a high bandwidth voice conversation like this you know that flow needs to be seamless in order for people to be able to get work done efficiently
The Smart Reply on a messaging is really clever you mentioned the smart compose and I do enjoy that feature as well are you going to have anything in UCaaS like a smart dictate take dictation, or something where you get we get asked on the telephone, a common question and it'll go ahead and proactively respond for me is that is that in the works?
I think that there's there's so many possibilities here in terms of, you know, anticipating what you want, obviously. As you get into voice that gets tricky in terms of emulating people's voices and everything around that. But I think that that's, you know, that's exactly what we're trying to do is make you more efficient, do things in fewer steps. And so I think that that that definitely makes sense whether it's exactly surfaces like that are not as is a great question. It is Google Voice. Also client lists on the desktop. It is. Yeah, so Google voices in the browser voice. google. com also has apps and Android and iOS.
Now, who was the target customer for Google Voice? Is it is it small business, medium business, large business,
You know, it's it really runs the full range. You know, we saw when we announced on the beta, we had quotes from Nielsen who's using it heavily as part of our beta program. And that, you know, I really when you look at the amount of money that companies are spending on on prem telephony, really just getting, you know, workers out of the local harvest. Where and into the cloud is just a huge cost savings. And so I think that when you look at something with voice where, you know, in one click, you can provision an entire office with phone numbers are using a Google Sheet, you can add it to voice and we'll put all those phone numbers automatically. You know, these are huge time savers, we see it in business and in fact, there's even a an area of Google Cloud that's focused on call center AI. So really you know the complexity you can you can as you get more complex and get into something as as complicated as a call center you we have the tools for that so and then you go down to a small business where you know, a couple of clicks you have a phone number you know, we don't require you for example to record I VR prompts you just type them in and we do the voice for you. So these are all things that make a running a small business very easy and so it really does run the full full range
Scott here's my here's my challenge to you. I'm at the Himms event a big healthcare IT conference actually the biggest one world in and I'm sure lots of your colleagues are here I'm going to ask you to launch a moonshot to ditch the fax machine in hospitals and doctors offices. So could you please go to Sarah's Eddie and request 100 million dollars to figure out how we can put a bullet into fax machines once and for all delete our collective memory.
I heard a funny anecdote the other day that they're having to put new doctors through fax machine trading because they've never encountered one before but I'm with you on that, that it's got to go and I think a lot of the electronic you know healthcare, electronic initiatives, things like cloud which are HIPAA ready GSuite have already so I think those are big, big steps but we still like you like you know, have a long way to go
And I noticed you're a cancer survivor. Which is wonderful address You're doing well so you you obviously personally navigated the the healthcare experience as a patient I imagine you have lots of thoughts on technology that can be applied in the health IP space to really make our lives better as patients doctors caregivers and others
no question and it really did it was particularly notable carrying you know paper between doctors as you got second opinions and went through treatment and you you know we ended up we have boxes of of this information I think that that's that's a huge step and it's it's a heavy it's a vertical that's very important to us and cloud and both both as a as an industry but also personally as you know it
Is your role your role as a product manager difficult that you have so many internal users on your platforms or are you are you constantly getting you know nudged at the at the cafeteria about why Don't you add this to the jam board or something along these lines?
We have part of the Google culture is a very strong opinion about everything. And I do get to hear about that all the time. And that, you know, that's the dog food culture, which started, you know, read maybe it actually the month that I started back in oh six was when we cut over Gmail internally. And that really fundamentally changed how we were able to develop because we can push things out, you know, it's kind of part of being a gambler, is that you will tolerate being, you know, getting the latest and the latest is often wrong. And so I think that that, especially as we as we grow, you know, we're getting a cross section. This is not an engineering dominated culture anymore, right? It really is a mix of all sorts of rules. And so we get feedback from all sides. And that's just a huge deal for us because it it gets early, early feedback. And then I can go and I can, you know, I can spend two hours with a user, right? Which is just not something that's possible on the outside. So that I found that to be to be really great as a product manager, obviously, sometimes I get yelled at, but it's, you know, that's part of it. How often do you use a jam board? You know, I have one in my home office, I'm in my work office where I'm usually a meeting rooms I use them every day. Now to be one thing that's important to understand is that, you know, the jam board itself, you know, is a great device but we're not limited to the board. Right. The board is just one view into GSuite. You know, Jam itself is accessible through Chromebooks through Android, iOS phones, and so tablets, iPads and so what's great is it really does bring it brings the whiteboard into the conference room. Whether you have a board or not,
I didn't realize the jam board worked on I still work on any touchscreen device or just a Chromebook or no?
So, so yeah, it's the, you know, iPad, Chromebook touch. It works on the web. So in a web browser, so that would mean any touch enabled browser based device. But I think it's important to understand that really, what it does is it It opens it up for everybody. That's one of the things that just didn't translate into the virtual meetings is the whiteboard. And I think that's a big loss. It's unstructured thinking is just that's what drawing is about. And I think it takes an element out of the meeting that we're really trying to add back.
Do you happen to have an opinion on on bourbon?
I have very strong opinions on bourbon. I'm a bourbon. Yes, I have quite a few. Tell me. Are you also a bourbon?
I don't think I could turn a blind taste test the difference between a bourbon and in a whiskey Can you?
Most cannot. So here's what I'll tell you. Is is I believe I could but I've never really tried because I don't want to know the answer. Okay. I think one of the amazing things is really, if you think it's better, it's better. And it's really I feel like a lot of people really get into things and then they become like snobbish about it. And for me, it's about you know, the entire the whole span and spectrum of, you know, whether it's an Elijah Craig, which, you know, entry level of logic, Craig, or an impossible to get have a gun Winkle, you know, that whole range is interesting. Yeah.
How about we change our Android code names to bourbon whiskey. So I think that would be a change from sweet goods. You know, sweet. I agree. We're going to run out and desserts dimension. Right, right. Exactly.
If I were in charge, I'll talk to Russia Yeah, you know, I like to comment about becoming smaller, so much more efficient. I become synonymous before I become an expert on on something but
the I learned to drink whiskey in Scotland and in Scotland. One of the things that they do and they serve the whiskey and in a pub is. They serve a water separately and that you kind of dilute your whiskey a little bit to your to your liking. And, and then I went south down to London and that is just so frowned upon. You know you don't you don't dilute your whiskey. That's the wrong thing to do. The proper thing to do is to order it with ice and wait for it to milk. It's the same thing but but very different ways of doing it is the proper way to drink bourbon with a little bit of water or ice or you just drink it is the proper way straight. Is there is there a proper way?
You know, I don't I this is it's a hugely debated topic. In fact, some some bartenders will not serve the highest whiskey like Pappy Van Winkle with ice which I find wonderfully ironic because actually Pappy himself every night would have his his his bourbon on the rocks on the porch. So you know, I really I think I think a bourbon is an American, you know, drink and
You should drink it however you want. The thing that's interesting that's happened to bourbon is more and more, it's moved towards barrel proof, which means it's not at the typical 86. But what it is right out of the barrel, which is more hundred plus, which gets to the point where it's, I mean, it's burning your mouth, and really, it needs to be watered down, whether that's water or or ice. You know, I think the interesting thing about Scottish whiskey is that I seems to do change the flavor in a way that is considered not great where bourbon really does maintain itself with ice. So interesting. Haven't you have a preference between bourbon or whiskey whiskey
Frankly, I drink anything that has above 25% alcohol content,
whatever's on sale that has high alcohol,
Exactly. It's kind of a hobo approach to to shopping works out well,
Well, we like to, we like to wrap up these podcasts with a similar question, which is to all of our guests and I, and perhaps you've already been prepared. Maybe not quite the question is that what is what is your next big spin going to be? You're saving up a bunch of money for something, is it what is that next man going to be? The big the big one, the big one
and I we talking personally?
Yes. Yes. Personally,
I am hoping and I don't know what big is for different people. But I my boys and I are big 3d printers makers. So we spend a lot of time making and breaking things off and breaking them, which is a point of contention and not fixing them. But I would really like to get a laser cutter because it kind of gives you the, the inversion of 3d printing where you take a solid material and you create something out of it. And so I'm excited to
You know, add that to our, to our maker space that's probably too formal call the maker space, my office, you know, I'm, I'm a big believer that like the fundamentals of really most you know disciplines particularly coding or is really problem solving and problem solving comes from making things is puzzles and so that's just something that's important to me to expose the children to
and so I want them solving those kinds of problems. And then you know, we do do a lot of debating about about the products we print out different ways to hold cameras, you know, my boys spend more time in the gym board I think, than me and, you know, it's, we, you know, redesign the stand so it went up and down because my six year old can't reach it so so, you know, I think that those are the kinds of things that are important that people look kids are solving early
with that I think we'll go ahead and wrap this podcast up. Thank you so much for Joining us I wish you the best of luck with your initiatives on on communications and GSuite and and I'm going to check out that jam appfor to play with that
Perfect always great to talk to ya