6:16AM Mar 5, 2020
I don't have any specific plugins I rely on. I don't have any specific social media sharing strategy or anything that's like going to supercharge your business. The main thing I tell people is just start to start publishing content, publish content, and get some rankings and go from there.
Hey, guys, it's Mike from Make Time Online and today we're joined by Nathaniel of coffee.
As you can probably tell from his website title, Nathaniel likes coffee... and beer, as you probably find out in this podcast. He likes beer so much that he is he has a whole website based on brewing beer actually, but he's one of these guys a little bit about his background he in 2007 I believe he moved to China to teach English. And whilst he was there, he realised that the, if he could just earn US dollars, whilst he was living in China, he could basically live like a king. And so that was his goal. That was what he wanted to achieve. And that is kind of how he started figuring out all maybe I could make money online, US dollars and live in China. And that's exactly what he did. So he figured out how to sort of get into online marketing and stuff around 2009 2010 and created some amazing affiliate marketing businesses and it kind of has just grown. There was that he never thought was possible. And what I'm going to tell you how much he makes, but it's at least five figures a month. So yeah, well, anyway, I'm gonna let him explain a bit more about his story. And this chat is so useful. If you want to If you are doing any kind of online marketing really but particularly if you're interested in having like niche websites, or tips or websites, in general really where you're monetizing either through affiliate marketing mainly, but also it talks about ads. And also I really liked how he talks about outsourcing. I thought that was a really cool part of the chat as well. If you do want to just kind of get the main bit summarise get to the last five minutes as always, and I'll just summarise the five main things. Hope you like this one, guys. Son, Nathaniel, I read somewhere in your bio, that you were living like the king in China at some stage in your life. Can you explain like how you got there?
Uh, no, that was actually that was my goal. So, yeah, so I was teaching in China. And I was earning about 1000 bucks a month, which is actually a huge increase. I think when I started, I was earning something like
their currency, I forget what it's called what's called acquire. And so that was, I believe, less than 1000 at that point, or maybe that's maybe that was about 1000. And then I had just moved to a new job and my salary almost doubled when I moved there. But it was still, you know, poverty wages in the US. So I was like, Well, if I want to stay in China, I'm never going to be able to actually plan to ever leave China. You know, let's say I get bored or whatever else. 10 years down the road. I'm not gonna have any money saved. You can't save that much money if you only make money. So that's how I thought, well, if I can make 1000 bucks A month from the internet, somehow some sort of online business, and I had no concept of what online business was at that point. So what was the story? This was 2010. Cool. Yeah, around 20 I must have started searching around 2009 somewhere because I didn't, you know, obviously wasn't successful right from the beginning. I started affiliate marketing in 2010. So maybe around 2009. Well,
yeah. idea from though, where did you get a promotion?
Well, I mean, to get to affiliate marketing, it was just like a slow process and, you know, stepping stones, I had one. So you know, I had the idea. All right. I want to make money by starting a business, but I'm in China, and I can't be in the United States. So, you know, how do I connect to the United States while I'm in China, obviously, through the internet. I think my initial initial idea, which I just had a interview with two Funny from wha
Yeah, I just spoke last week actually.
Okay. Yeah. So it's, it's coming back to me now Originally, I think I wanted to do import export, because I knew a lot of Chinese business guys. And they were wanting to get American electronics into China somehow or American goods into China's on now. And they wanted to export Chinese tea or Chinese goods. And so we had all these different plans. And so it's kind of doing the research on how to do that I might have had a website about Chinese tea or something at one point. And then, you know, I got roped into a couple pyramid scheme type things, and that didn't work out. And so then I was looking for more and more legitimate stuff. And then, you know, I found the wealthy affiliate Training Centre and they actually showed me how to build a website. How does affiliate marketing work? And, you know, I went through a couple failed websites with that and then and then I eventually started making money with those sites. So what was
what were like your first websites that you started building?
Um, yeah, I didn't really get the whole niche thing. So I always thought niche was like weird. So I had, you know, like a horse hair care website. And then I had a website about how to recover from a sprained ankle. And I had this website about, it's called Asian flush is this colloquial term for a lot of Asian people are missing a specific enzyme that helps them digest alcohol. That's why you hear that stereotype that you know Asians can't drink or Asians face turns red. It's a common thing. You know, if you go to karaoke and China's like everyone just has these bright red faces, but it's it's actual biological thing where they don't have this enzyme. And so there is this product on Clickbank called Asian flush, which was supposed to teach you how to overcome that or train yourself to get rid of it or have some sort of diet that could help you beat it or something. So I promoted that for a while.
So we're all of those websites that they just start making money straight away or like how did how did they now
I mean, my basic strategy was, um I had a lot of really just terrible practices back then. But I pick a Clickbank product, I would buy the domain, the dot info domain, which had the same name as the product. And then I would basically spin the content from the whatever advertising or website whatever, I just spin it and then I would publish that or I'd rewrite it myself a lot of times, a lot of times you could rang so you know, the product. I think I promoted back in the day was he m ankle rehab. So I had ATM ankle rehab dot info, and then the Asian flush one I had Asian flush dot info, which is a porn site now someone bought it. Don't go there. Hi. I struggle with that with my email list where What I have a couple years after I started one more cup of coffee, I started, you know, revealing because I used to be super, super private about this stuff. And I wouldn't tell anyone what my websites were. And I wouldn't tell you know, even the past ones because I just didn't want anyone messing with that stuff. I started to reveal more and more of what I had done in the past. I'm like, Oh, look at this old website. I used to run Caucasian. And then, you know, some granny emailed me one day, she was like, the inappropriate website, you shouldn't have that in your email. And I didn't realise that, you know, obviously looking at the name now. It just makes sense, isn't it? Prime Suspect for porn site, but yeah, so you know, I don't really remember how long it took or what, how I started making sales. But yeah, I mean, I would rank on page one with those those types of domains and I would just hit it with a bunch of backlinks and it was all random sales. There was no strategy behind it, but I was enough to get me hooked, you know, if you can make that was always like my driving force, you know if I could make $2 a day, and I can make $2 every day. And then if that's one website, then I could get another website that also makes $2 a day and then another website that made so you sort of stack it starts small, but then it snowballs.
So that was kind of like, do you remember that feeling when you first started just being like, I don't have a clue. Like what I'm actually trying to do here. I just want it was just all like, trying to find a way of making American dollars while you're living in China.
that was that kind of thing. Your plan originally was kind of stacking websites. So you're going to try and make as many small niche websites as possible. And then make as many of them as possible to to make some money.
That was the plan. As I always I always had the idea. Like I didn't realise you one website could make so much money. So I was like, Okay, well I'm making you know, a couple bucks. A week off each of these websites, that's not very much. But then if I think of some kind of process to have someone else build these websites, and, you know, maybe I have 100 websites, and each one makes $1 a day, that's $100 a day, that type of mentality,
right? So I'm guessing it changed. At some point that mentality. Yeah, it was kind of like the was there like a moment where you realise Hang on, that you can build up one big website or, like what gave you that first site into you don't have to build loads and loads of little ones, you could potentially make one bigger.
And, you know, that wasn't very much, or wasn't until super recent. Oh, within the last couple years, I would say within the last three years, maybe I finally figured that out, because I just couldn't manage my time. appropriately. I had. So I had those first couple of crappy websites and then My first big success was with the VPN websites. So I mean, that's what's interesting about the niche marketing thing is that you know, you take examples from your own life. So I was living in China and I had to use VPNs. And my one of my first websites was unblock Facebook and China dot info. I was amazing. Great idea. Yeah, I didn't. I mean, I was so cheap that I wouldn't spend more than 99 cents on a domain name. But, yeah, so I had these VPN websites. And then I had a bunch of them, you know, I had like 60 running at one time just because I was going for these exact match domains and again, spinning and, and so zero. Yeah, six zero. Whoa, I just thought it was all
Uh, it was all different keyword phrases, right? And they were all promoting the same VPNs and they were all promoting the same products and they were all The same keywords right so I'd have like access access Facebook and China calm unblock Facebook and China com Get on Facebook and China calm and you know I would rank for some of those terms and then I would just use the same keyword set for each of those domains. And it worked for about six months. And you know each website was making sales but it was just too much to manage. And so since that time period where I had like 60 websites I've been whittling down further and further and further and further and further to where I finally sold off my main, you know, the little tiny VPN websites that just let expire because they were making like 20 bucks a year. And then I had my main VPN websites and I eventually sold those couple years ago. And so now I basically just work on one more cup coffee and I have one other site and then I have my homebrewing website. And now I'm trying to do some outsourcing with this other one but I just have a couple main projects. That I work on, just because I don't have the time to manage everything else.
Yeah, no, I don't know how anyone can do that can have so many websites they want is because I know that exact feeling of where you're kind of like splitting yourself between between even even just splitting it between more than one really, you know, as soon as you start doing that you're not really like focused, I find anyway.
Oh, yeah. And I think it was a real lack of knowledge. In my beginner years, because I didn't see the potential for one website. Like, if I really wanted to hit it hard, I could do just one more cup of coffee, and still not have enough time in the day. You know, you have your affiliate products, but then I could launch my own product or that I could do a podcast and you know, I could do a lot more outreach. I could do more in depth articles. I could work more on you know, branding, and do more original research. This is an infinite amount of things that you can do with the same A website if you really into the topic.
Yeah. And I really want to get into like you touched a bit on outsourcing there. I want to get into that. But before we do, and I've heard you what I've read you somewhere put something along the lines of not doing too much like off page SEO. And I just wanted to get like your your thoughts on on that because I know you're a big advocate for on page SEO.
Yeah, so I got caught up in the first round the penguin and panda updates. So those VPN websites, they were doing really well making, you know, over 10,000 a month around whenever those updates hit 2012, something like that. And it was just a real wake up call for me that the people who are advocating for this stuff. They're not they don't reap the consequences. their advice. So they can tell you all day. You know, build links and all this stuff. But when your site gets caught up an algorithm update, you're the one who suffers for it. And they just had it. I think it was authority hacker, or one of those, one of those that might have been authority hacker came out with this. As I'm getting off track here, that was with PB ends with the private blog networks back in the day where you could just they were like services, you could sign up and just buy links directly is like a web app where you just say, pay 100 bucks. And then they would give you a certain amount of links and different tiers. Now PB ends are all private, and you got to be, you know, seek them out, but they're still around and people still recommend them. And so you have all kinds of people, you know, gurus out there who are recommending, like the service, the Hoff, they're like, Oh, I just built this niche website, and I just hit it with some high quality backlinks from the Hoff authority hacker I think it was authority hacker comes out they went to all these different famous pbn sites and they analyse the backlink they got and they're all trash, it's all bought backlinks and if Google finds out about it, your site is going to take the hit and then you know their services always do this or whatever or the guru says, Oh, I recommend it but never for my main money site just for these these side projects. Right. So I mean, that's on the pbn front. Now there. There are. I think legit ways that you could do link building. I just don't enjoy it. Yeah. Like, I mean, I personally I think Google wants you to develop a community they want you to be involved and to share information and to you know, even something my guest guest posting gets a lot of flack. But how else are you supposed to participate in community? You have a blog on a topic someone else has a blog on a topic. You know, you want to introduce this person to your audience, they get value from learning a different perspective or from, you know, getting new knowledge in some specific area that that person has. So it makes sense that guest posting helps people and provides value. So I don't think Google is against guest posting. So I could I could see that as being a legit link building strategy. Or even some of the stuff like broken link building. Have you ever heard about that?
Yeah, I've heard things but I'm not entirely sure what it is to be honest.
It's basically you use like sem rush or, ah, right refs and you find out websites in your niche that have four fours or broken links or or link to old websites. And then you contact them and say, Oh, I noticed you're linking to this page. This resources outdated or the link is broken. Here's this better resources in my page. it you know, even though we all hit those spam emails in some instances, that could be providing value because you are basically helping fix the internet manually. Yeah. So I get stuff like that. It just sounds so tedious to me. And I've seen myself, I've built websites without any link building at all. And you can, you know, earn six figures a year without any link building. So why would I spend time doing something I don't enjoy when I could spend time doing stuff that I do enjoy, like keyword research and writing articles and becoming knowledgeable in these topics. That's more fun to me.
Yeah. And I mean, something that, I guess kind of happens in time as well. If the website is providing enough value or it fits something else that someone's writing about is you're going to get those natural backlinks anyway. So you it's like without having to do the outreach, you probably will get backlinks and you probably will get off page SEO SEO anyway, I guess.
Yeah, I mean, there's so many things that want to get into Particularly know that you're you're so clued up on like your niche websites and things like that. I just wondered what your take is on that really, really small niches in today's age. I do think it's Do you think it's dead? Like for people just to go for tiny pockets of like, micro niches and things or do you think it's going to be? Do you think it's still profitable for people who like if someone's brand new to affiliate marketing, do you think they can still use a really tiny niche and make money?
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, so I think there's two main points that I would say why micro niche sites are still and always will be viable to make money now how much money it depends on the niche, but one is that you'll have these big sites like Mashable or Forbes or BuzzFeed, whatever, they'll cover These big keywords and ranked for a lot of stuff, but they don't have the time resources, interest or profit motivation to go for the little tiny keywords. You know, maybe they'll have, like with my beer website, they'll have, you know, top 10 home brewing kits to get started brewing beer. Okay, that's pretty obvious keyword search and you know, they have the domain authority to rank highly for that keyword, but they're not going to pay someone 20 bucks an hour to go right. Okay, the top 10 lager, all grain homebrewing Kids available in Australia, or, you know, whatever other very specific term you want to go for. They're just not going to go after it. So if your site is about home brewing kits, you have the time and resource to do that yourself. The other thing is that you're always going to have If you're really into a specific topic, or at least you learn a lot about it and do the research on it, you're going to discover more and more more specific terms that are only relevant to people who are in that niche. So, you know, there's a lot of beer knowledge I have that I can write about on my website that no one else is going to care about or know about. Unless they're into that specific thing. Like you could look at Okay, home home brewing is this tiny little hobby that people could say, Oh, you can't make that much money in it. You want to go into smartwatches or home security systems. But I could write all day about different specific topics, what's the pH of your mash? You know, what's the proper grain crush? For your best mash efficiency? You know, how long can you make age and imperial stout before it starts to taste like soy sauce like all these specific parts and you're not going to know that until you get into it no keyword tool is going to be able to tell you that information because there's there's low search volume, but the low search volume is still people were highly interested in those specific topics.
Yeah, and that's, that's actually something I've noticed from your sites before actually is that you You seem to have this knack. It's almost like you're you don't even use a keyword research tool. I don't know if that's true or not, but it almost looks like you have it's like you've got inside knowledge somehow like I just seen some of your titles and sometimes it's like really specific question. You know, someone else has written a post on a review or whatever, but then I notice your website and it's like, a really specific question about one tiny aspects of the review, but you still rank because it's like, obviously really good content. That you've produced wherever. And you're still ranked. If someone types in something something review. I just wondered like, what, like how you do that? Or is it like do you use Google? Or do you use a keyword research tool when you're doing it?
So when I go for maybe bigger terms where I want to do like an in depth thing, I'll do keyword research and find what the topics are that people are searching for. Or what's the most popular phrase, like the way to phrase it, you know, how to train your dog versus how to train a dog, I'll look at what what the higher search volume will be. But in terms of my weekly publishing schedule, I don't really rely on a tool. I'll go through just like a spreadsheet of every possible term someone could search for. Because if I'm building this 1020 year asset, I'm going to cover all those topics and what I really hate is when I'll do like three, three, similar topics, and then a year later, I want to cover those topics again, but I won't remember which ones I covered. So I gotta go back and research my own stuff, what did I write about. So instead, I'll just lay everything out here is every possible variation on this thing. And I just want to cover it, all of it. And I'll just go through it and I outsource a lot. So I'll have like a formula and on how to write about and whatnot. But you know, those those tiny search volume keywords, they get searches, and if you write about and you're the only person writing about a date convert. Now in terms of ranking for specific terms, the example you're talking about, I don't know if that was intentional on my part. But whoever you were searching for, or just having to turn up, cuz I still do a lot of the basic, you know, selling so review that type of stuff.
Yeah, no, it's just, I just noticed it a couple of times of the light That's really cool. That is just your, your title, your headline is basically so different everything else on page one, and we're just like, it just stands out so much. So how are you doing this?
I don't even know. Well, I don't know what it is. I just do. I'm doing unintentionally. Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious what those search terms were that but yeah, well,
you just kind of touched on it again. So I think now's a good time. But so how, how much do you outsource of your like your? So you've got basically three websites on the go at the moment you say? Yeah. And so do you kind of outsource a whole website to someone else? Or do you just have general topics that you're writing about for each website and how would you go about it basically,
I would say outsource the majority of my writing now, but I still do a lot of my own when it's a topic that I feel needed. More personality or needs more insight. Like, when I do like for one more cup of coffee and fall review an info product, I'll do that myself. Because, you know, it's hard to outsource that type of knowledge. But for other websites, like if I have a top 10 list or like a general FAQ type thing, I'll outsource all that stuff. I think the hardest part of outsourcing for me is figuring out your ROI. Because you kind of get on this train where you're like, hey, I want to outsource and I want to publish and I want to get this stuff done. And I see traffic is increasing. But sometimes there's like a three to six month lag in what you rank for. So I can spend three months outsourcing five articles a day and you know, that's thousands of dollars, but the articles don't rank until three months. Later and then if they're only monetize with google adsense ads, okay, well, how many dollars a day to that specific post make? And, you know, a lot of times you end up with, like, 80% of your revenue comes from 20% of what you publish. So how do you figure out, you know, what was worth it and what wasn't? And how do you pare that down, you know, the general direction, I'm going for us to publish more content to get more traffic and then find ways to monetize that and it works out but it's not a very precise strategy that I would be able to, you know, distil down to a specific thing that I could teach other than, you know, try to be try to publish the best custom content possible on low competition keywords, and increase your traffic and, you know, you'll see opportunities to monetize the content as you basically get more traffic and more data, you know, where you want to funnel people to and whatnot. But, yeah, the Holy Grail that I'm trying to look for is that To be able to have a formula that I can just outsource and have someone build a website. So far, it's not 100% there, but I'm working on it with
the whole website.
Yeah, that's my newest project is I literally, I have no time. So I'm building this new website having the content 100%, outsourced while so. And I might be getting a, like a project manager on this year to have them actually publish the content as well, because there's still a lot of work in editing to I think that's where most of my time goes these days is is editing content, right? Because, you know, you can train writers but they'll miss stuff with SEO or the have may be phrasing that I don't like this, I still do a lot of editing that internal linking, you know, you may have a writer on for two months, who goes through a bunch of topics, and then that's done. So you get another writer, but then next writer is not familiar with the previous writers content, so you may have to do internal links or whatnot.
Yeah, that's something I'd like to know about. We're about as well as that, how did you actually find your writers? Do you kind of just go through them and get them set content that they're going to cover? Or do you just kind of have like one or two that almost like full time with you.
I tend to silo my writers and their projects. So I'll think of a project that I want done. And I'll have maybe like a three to six month time horizon to test the waters, see if this stuff can rank. And I'll have a formula for them with a template. And I like doing it this way. Because I feel like you get people who are interested in the topics that you want to write about, or at least willing to do the research. So let's say okay, this writer is in charge of this content, and they're going to publish once or twice a week, or deliver one or two articles per week. And then they're going to do that for six months. And then I'll have this other writers doing a different type of content. And then you know, they're going to do that same formula, but with a different topic. Right. And then Once that project finishes out, they don't think okay, what's the next project? I'll ask the writer, are you interested in doing this project, we can either Close, close this out, and I'll hire a new writer for this project. Or you can jump to this project. And a lot of times people want to jump to the next topic.
Cool. And so, do you get most of your writers? Is there like, Is it a website that you kind of use or is upward? Just outwork?
upward? upward? Cool. that's simple enough.
So you don't use like the was this like a Filipino one? Or like there's loads of different ones like that.
Now, I did a thing two years ago, where I went through, I think six, somewhere between five and 10 of those different services, text broker, I rider those type of content mail type places. Yeah. And a lot of them come highly recommended. People say oh, they're written by native speakers and it's, you know, high quality content. And I think Spend a bunch of hundreds of dollars on these articles and you know, got the best writers and most of those trash is very obviously outsourced. You know, if you're, I, again on the beer thing, I read these articles in Forbes and Business Insider about homebrewing and, and stuff like that, and I'm like, I can tell this was outsourced it, you know, either it's flat out false, or it's just someone who read a Wikipedia article in the past 10 minutes, and they're just here to take this information. And a lot of these content mill places, what I think what they're doing is they have someone as a non native speaker, do the research, do something according to a format, and then they'll have a native speaker go through and edit. So the grammar is correct, and the sentences make sense. But it's a garbage article that's not going to compete for you know, anything except for the lowest competition words and then if you get someone on the page, they're not even going to enjoy the article. Anyway, so I'd rather spend a little extra time talking to someone, you know, figuring out, are they interested in this topic? Do they want to work long term on this, and then you know, they also gain knowledge as well. So they improve as a writer, as the project goes further down the line. It's just a nightmare, like with text broker and, and these type of places, if you wanted any kind of edits, it was it was just difficult to pass the article back and forth, and you're going through this app, and there's certain restrictions and you know, whatever, whereas I can talk directly to my writers. And, and, yeah, that was that train of thought ending right there.
Do conatus use like a Google Docs or something, what they're writing on and then you can both use it or,
um, maybe this is not the most efficient way to do it, but I just have a like a text document dot txt file, and I have my formula and then I chat with them through the Upwork platform. There's like a chat area. And so I'll say, okay, you know, here's your initial article, here's the topic. Here's the instructions, here's the format. And, you know, they'll deliver the article, publish it directly into WordPress or save it as draft. And then I'll just go through point by point. This was done not according to the format I gave you. You know, I really enjoyed this part. But this could use improvement. You know, your paragraphs are too thick, you know, this is break up these paragraphs, Oh, I forgot to include this. I would appreciate if you did this in a future. And it will take two or three weeks, you know, sometimes longer to go through. But eventually they're sort of self sufficient. And then we don't, don't have to do very much communication at all. As long as they have their keyword list. They can just run through it.
Nice. I didn't do Do you always publish it WordPress or do they just kind of do that themselves.
So far, I've been publishing, I want to start I'm trying to remove myself from that process. Yeah, just I spent less time editing because I want to spend more time on one more cup of coffee doing my own articles and I beer site. It's just I just don't have enough time. And
I'm going to kind of go back a little bit here because I, you mentioned it at some point. And I know like if I was listening to this, this is the bit I would like to know more on you were you were sort of saying like once you get traffic, so it's getting content out there. And once you actually get the traffic, then you figure out ways of monetizing it. Can you like give us some examples of like what you would do to how you would monetize it and how you would know what pieces of content to use to monetize and things if that makes sense.
Yeah, so, um, let me think of an example I can share.
Yeah, I'm blanking on specific examples, but basically like, I'll cover these topics and then maybe somewhere down the road I find an affiliate product that's converting well for me. And so then I can look at previous articles I wrote and make a connection between the affiliate product that's converting and the previous articles that I wrote. So okay, here's maybe an example. So I wrote this article on my homebrew website about how to reuse your yeast you use the yeast to make the beer. Normally most people will buy packets of yeast and put that in but you can actually harvest it and reuse it to save money.
Now recently, they've been coming out with these
Like supercharged yeast, cans of yeast instead of packets that come with their own nice nutrients. And so if that particular product was converting for me or I saw an affiliate opportunity there with, you know, high commissions or recurring commissions are some sort of thing that I wanted to investigate, I could then take that article that was about the yeast. And you know, just add like a call to action at the bottom. Oh, reusing your yeast is a good way to save money, but you really only saving about $10 per batch. So it's a couple pennies. If you want to save yourself the time this is my recommended, you know, yeast solution that I have and then link to the review. Or if, let's say I write an article that's just interesting.
If I write something about
It's a non alcoholic craft beer I write an article about that reviewing these beers and I have no intention of monetizing it. If that ranks and starts getting a tonne of traffic, then I'll go do the research and think what affiliate products could I insert in here? Or what supplementary article Could I write and then link to and then promote. So if someone is interested in non alcoholic craft beer, maybe that's because they're doing this cross country biking and they don't want to have you know, alcohol in their system when they're exercising. So what's the what's the crossroads between competitive bicycling and craft beer? Could I perhaps market some sort of like travel keg for a bike? You know, are you this you sort of brainstorm Okay, this article has a tonne of traffic What can I promote on this?
Yeah, I wouldn't even think to think like that but as a great connection. But yeah, anyway. So I just want to know a little bit as well just kind of about a bit more about you. So, since you started doing this, if you think of like, you know what your life you were you were teaching English in China, weren't you?
Is that what you did? Yeah.
You know, what are some are like the best things that's happened to you? So it could even just be like, the best days you've had or just some of the generic things like, what are some of the best things that have happened to you since you started doing online marketing?
I think like one of the kind of aha moments for me was when I came back to the US to visit family and then I was going back and as long plane ride, and we didn't have Wi Fi at that time, or they didn't have Wi Fi on planes. And I had made 500 bucks in that plane ride while I was on the plane, but no computer access. So I was like, Oh, this can really work. You know? I mean, that was years ago. Now it's just the gym. appreciation of being able to do my own schedule, like I just rebuilt my fence in my backyard was like 120 feet. And it took about three weeks of tinkering around with it, you know, because because the long area, I don't want to leave it open, so I, you know, build the section one day and then do work the next, you know, computer work the next day, build a section, you know, a week later, you know, go back to Home Depot, and that type of just general appreciation that I don't have to squeeze all my yard work into the weekend or the other day, my wife forgot her lunch. So I said, well, let's just go out to lunch. So, you know, I was able to leave according to her schedule, you know, pick her up, go to lunch, and then, you know, come back late in the afternoon. I didn't have any restrictions. So I think that's just my my general day to day appreciation and being able to set my own schedule.
Yeah, I think there's so much to be said for that as well as another thing. I've read it before you know that one of the main factors on happiness is control and like us having control of our own schedule and things like that. And so I think that's one of the huge things about doing this kind of work that just is hard to put into words like how how useful it is, I guess, isn't it?
Yeah, I think another thing that it's not really like a single occurrence that I can say, but over time, I have just gradually seen more and more opportunities in the business space. And just always being able to see like, oh, here's a good idea. If someone had the, you know, time and motivation, that would be a good business idea, or, oh, if things don't work out here, I can always move on to this next thing. You know, there's just so many opportunities to make money that people don't know about, I mean, even just writing articles like, you know, I pay writers thousands of dollars per month just for writing. I mean, the writing is important, I'm not saying the writing is justified, someone's gonna take that sound by hates his writers now. But you know, people are like, Oh, I can't find a job or I can't find a good paying job but you can literally sit at your computer and write articles for three or four hours in the evening and make a couple thousand dollars extra per month doing that. You know, that just your average day to day person doesn't see that opportunity. You know, obviously, I'm more focused on the affiliate side of opportunities. So I don't know about you know, starting an app or or running a restaurant or anything like that. But just in the online space itself, it's just crazy how much money potential money there is to be made for people who want to do it. And that's, that's pretty exciting to see. Ya
know, 100% I've got to say like, even just from my own point of view, there's so many things before you start doing it. You have no idea that what is possible and what is it possible, but like even just from doing things for a while Like you end up getting people asking you all could you do this for me? And again, like if you've got the time and you can do it if not, then you just like no, I can't do it at the moment because of whatever but if you build in your own business and things like that, so it's the same sort of thing that I realised there's just so many opportunities and possibilities and you don't need to have like this computer science degree or, like online background yourself or marketing background or anything, it's just, it's just skills that anyone can learn really.
Right, like another one great. One is the the local marketing example. So if you look at just 10 years ago, versus now how local businesses really need to get online and you know, some local businesses have their own apps or don't ordering system. And think of how many small towns and cities there are across the world. How many opportunities there is just in that just to be able to say, Okay, I can build you a website, I can get you a proper domain name, I can get you ranked for your industry in your town. You know, maybe I can get you a couple keywords there's and this isn't even like link building or complicated SEO. This is just, you know, common knowledge not common knowledge. What's the word I'm looking forward to? I want to say obvious, like okay, I sell flowers in you know, town x in Pennsylvania. This business can buy a website, town x flowers, Pennsylvania, or you know, even if they get a you know, they have their whatever branded Mary's flowers and then you're able to say, Okay, well, here's setting up your website, you're setting up the page, this is going to help you get more customers. Here's what's so every town in the entire world could have at least a couple of people doing SEO and and local business type stuff. And then that's, you know, how many industries in there are. every town has a flower shop and a lawyer and restaurants and now you've got delivery apps and it's just a lot of stuff that you can be doing.
Yeah. Nice is unlimited isn't it is just crazy when you actually think about all the opportunities.
I've always try and pick a day to go back to so I'm going to pick a time when you were in China. So you move there you Did you have a job when you move there, or did you kind of just move there and then get one?
I got one before I'm it's cool.
I mean, I found the opportunity online, right. And then they sort of sponsored me to go there to carry my visa and that type of stuff.
Okay, so like 2000 around 2010 then, which is when you were in China before you were doing like the online marketing stuff about the right side.
So let's see, I was in Prague from 2003 2000 7000 China from 2007 to 2012. Okay,
yeah, so let's go like 2010 just before you actually or maybe even 2009 at one of those working weeks where you were like, oh man, if I could just earn some US dollars here. I could live like a king. Go back to that kind of time. What would just be like one piece of advice that you would give to yourself? If you could go back to like, a day in 2009?
You mean like something to change or correct? Or
it could be anything could be life advice, just with everything that you know now. So if you could just literally go back in time to that one day and be like,
I would say, Well, I want I would, I would tell myself, you definitely should put some money into Netflix. I tell you what, I like I like stock investing and I know everyone has stories like this but I just remember thinking, because then they they stream all their movies for free just because they have, you know, very loose intellectual property rights and, and whatnot. So I was streaming movies there. And Netflix was having a bad time when they had that quixtar launch, they tried to do and they were down, that Netflix is the only streaming service and this is amazing that you can do this, you should just put like five grand and Tesla. And they were like 100 bucks a share and then or something. And, you know, they've gone up 1020 times since then it's just mad at myself for not following just one of those three, and so I didn't invest and then I came back and then you know, they were like rocket, and I thought, well, I missed the train. And then it just continued. That was 2012. So you know, look at what they've done since then. Yeah. But in terms of online marketing, I think I would just say that just Believe in the process, I guess, like it does work, it can work. You know, obviously, I did follow through. But I think a lot of people get stuck in the beginning stages because they're doing work and not seeing results. And it feels like you're wasting your time. But the process does work. And you just got to kind of figure it out. And that's kind of been the mindset I've had this whole time is, if you spend enough time in anything, you can learn it. as just a side note, I think why I was able to stick through it. More so than a lot of other people, is because I saw the same process happened with learning a language, where it's a weird transformation, when you look at let's say, 2009 where I was speaking Chinese base, basically fluently or conversationally fluently, versus maybe 2009. And wasn't that was all right in 2009. But, you know, versus two years ago when it was just a wall words you know, you have no concept on, you know, people will say like, oh, it sounds like all the words are going together, Oh, I can't tell one word from another. And then you just pick at it bit by bit, you'll have one sentence. And you know, maybe you go to to your language class for six months, and you don't understand anything. But then you're watching a TV show, and you pick one word out of a 30 minute show, you know, that's that first brick, that's that first breakthrough. And then you know, then you can understand a single sentence or then you can understand the context, you know, and then you're saying your own sentences. And this process of knowing nothing to becoming an expert. That was what kind of taught me that online marketing could work as well that I didn't understand anything at all. It felt like I was doing everything wrong, nothing was working. I wasn't making money. I was wasting my time. But I knew that if I spent enough time trying to learn, eventually I'll get one thing and then I'll get another thing and I know how people are like to become an expert You don't have to be born into, you know, you don't have to be born an online marketing be an online marketing expert, you can learn pretty much anything in a couple years. So you just do the time, you'll figure it out. You don't understand what figuring it out means right now, but eventually you will figure it out.
Yeah, that's that's such a valid point. It's kind of like the whole 10,000 hours thing, isn't it? You know, like to become an expert in anything. If you put in 10,000 hours. It's kind of like, it's proven, you will sort of thing. So yeah, it makes perfect sense. One last thing that I didn't ask as well is Do you have any, like, really cool tools or training or courses or anything that you've used, which has been super useful?
Well, I mean, I obviously I recommend Well, I don't know if your audience is familiar with Wealthy Affiliate all but well, the affiliate is still my number one recommendation for people To get started, they The reason I like their training in particular is because you just don't jump in and start doing it. I've done a lot of other courses. And they'll just put you through hours and hours and hours of research trying to find this perfect niche and this domain name and all these keywords. And for someone who is at that beginning stage, when they don't understand anything at all, it's just, you know, words they don't know, they can't imagine what it's like making money online, they don't understand the process. Well, the video is good, because you just jump in and start doing it. And so what if your first website doesn't work out? So what if it takes you a year? You know, people want to start these $10,000 businesses and they're like, well, what if I waste a year and $300 on a wealthy affiliate membership? It's like so what are you going to do? Watch catch up on Netflix shows like you got to another business that that is taking your time away to spend a year doing I spent 300 bucks, but I guess that's kind of a side thing mainly is that You jump in and you start doing it and you figure stuff out. You, you get the real world experience and building your website, publishing an article looking for keywords, and you know, maybe the first 20 keywords you do don't rank, but then you get one of the ranks and you're like, Okay, what did I do right there? How do I repeat that process? What do I need to go back and fix? And maybe you work on that site for six months, and then you realise, well, this is too much work. It's too broad for me. So I need to narrow my niche down. Or maybe you start super narrow, and you're like, well, I'm out of ideas. I'm kind of bored with this topic. Maybe I need to broaden it out. But you don't get that experience without actually doing it. Yeah,
no. So true. So if someone is listening to this, and they want to get in contact with you, what's what's the best way for them to reach out?
Um, I guess, email and try to find me via email on my website. I don't really. I guess it depends on why they want to contact me. I just get so many emails every single day. I guess if someone is motivated enough to get to my website, find my email address and email me through that, then, you know, we can talk. Yeah, there you go. That's a challenge. I'll put the link in the show notes. If you really want to get in touch, that's what you're going to have to
do find it.
One thing I did want to add for the tools thing is I don't have any specific recommended tools like a keyword tool or something like that. I use sem rush and a dress now. They're a little complicated for newbies to get started with. But other than that, I don't have any specific plugins I rely on I don't have any specific social media sharing strategy or anything that's like going to supercharge your business. The main thing I tell people is just start to start publishing content, publish content, and get some rankings and go from there.
Yeah, totally agree. So thanks so much for your time, Nathaniel. Really appreciate it. I've learned a lot If no one else has. So it's been, it's been really cool.
No problem, happy to be on.
So there you go. Another really cool story of a completely normal guy who has just used affiliate marketing to completely change his life. He says it himself, he's made more money than he could ever have imagined was even possible and sees more opportunities that every single day is talking about all these different things that you could possibly do. And you just wouldn't even know it's possible unless you give it a go. So here are my five key takeaways from the chat. And hopefully, I'll help you as well. Number one is that he talks about Nathaniel talks about how it's possible to get websites ranking and making good money without ever doing any like backlink outreach or anything like that. So without necessarily having to do any of those more JT things that he talks about like PB ends. And if they still exist, they're still kind of normal. You don't need to worry about all these weird little tactics and strategies. Basically, if you can write content, that's good and helpful. Eventually your website will get ranked. And some people would disagree with that straight away, even spoke about how it's good, you know, things I guess posting is still pretty good. And there's the broken backlinks which he talks about, yes, your website does need some sort of like authority and backlinks are going to help, but it is possible and he's even said it himself. He's had websites where he's done no work on getting backlinks for them to do well. Number two, is that niche websites very niche websites are not dead. And if that's even says they are probably never going to die, because there's just so much content that is possible for people to write about. So, the point that Nathaniel made was, you know, the big websites are just not going to have the time, resources money, they're not going to have the inclination to go for those tiny, small keywords, which actually still can be monetized really well, in fact, sometimes better than some of the big generic keywords because it's someone looking for a very specific problem. Number three, is that is monetizing strategy. You know, he was sort of saying about getting that traffic, putting out loads of content out there and then thinking about how to monetize it making if you can make those links between posts, which are getting good traffic, but maybe not bringing in much money yet. If you can find potentially an affiliate link, as Nathaniel spoke about. I think he was speaking about different types of I bear I'm not great with my I like beer but I'm not great on Knowledge and I can't really remember something to do with yeast or something he was saying, you know, if you could just make a link between, I think his example was a cyclist and non alcoholic beer. You know, if someone searched it, find something through cycling and staying hydrated or something you would never think as a link with, with cycling, staying hydrated and beer, whereas he's provided a solution that maybe you weren't even aware of. And there's something that potentially cyclists was actually really like, because they would really like to have a beer, but they can't. Number four is just start. And this is the message that he gave throughout the whole end of that chat, is you just don't know what you don't know. There's so many opportunities out there. And until you actually start actually writing content and putting content out there. You're just not going to know things. I really liked his example of learning a language because It's just gobbledygook. It's just screens and walls of text that makes no sense. It's the same thing with online marketing or affiliate marketing, there's so much stuff that you don't know, it makes no sense. But until you take action and start writing, none of it is going to make sense, you're never going to work out, you're never going to figure it out. And at the start, particularly, you probably are going to spend ages feeling like you're getting nowhere, but eventually it will kind of piece itself together. And that leads on to number five, which is the Daniels main tool and recommendation, which is Wealthy Affiliate. And I really liked his explanation of it as well. It's a platform that I've been using over the last couple of years now or not even that maybe 15 months, but is so right, particularly for, for beginner affiliate marketers. It's so good because it just gets you going which links on to that last point I just said it doesn't over complicate things. It just helps you get going. And there is all the information inside that you can possibly need even for like
experienced and intermediate affiliate marketers. There's so many different resources and tools inside there, and people that you can ask for different strategies, different help and things like that. So I do hope that helped. He's a guy with so much knowledge and experience could have chatted to him all day To be honest, but I hope it helped you as much as it did help me. Thanks for listening in to this episode of Make time online. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast you don't miss any future episodes. And please take a moment to write a review for our podcast in the App Store. keep changing for the better guys. Take care