Susan Wolak - HHSAB
8:35PM Jun 26, 2020
You well good evening housing and Human Services Advisory Board members, it's nice to see your faces albeit on tiny little screens, tiny little windows up above my window. So it is 708 and I will call this meeting to order. We are going to start with the public invited to be heard section. Anyone wishing to speak during public invited to be heard will need to call into this meeting. Instructions are being displayed on the screen. Comments are limited to three minutes per person, and each speaker will be asked to state their name and their address for the record prior to proceeding with their comments. The dial in number is 1-669-900-6833. And when prompted, enter The meeting ID 861150 to 3460. So with that, we're going to take four minutes allowing people to call in. And at that point we will enter people that who have called in to make comments, and then we'll proceed with the rest of the meeting.
Okay, that is four minutes. That is an excellent demonstration of just how relative time actually is. It seemed like a long time. Do we have any public who is called in to be hurt?
We could not have anybody all in to be heard.
All right, what is in the queue?
Well, I hope everybody had a chance to relax a little bit for those four minutes. Let's go ahead and move on to our next agenda item which is approving the minutes. Is there a motion to approve the minutes from the May 14 2020 meeting.
I'll move to approve the minutes.
Thank you in a second.
Thank you. Nicole. Were you able to capture both of those?
I apologize was that Deanna and Jake, Dan and then Jake. Okay. Gotcha, guys. Thank you.
Thank you. Okay. Any discussion, any corrections or amendments to the minutes? Then all in favor for approving them. March 14 minutes. please say aye. Aye. Sorry, may 14 minutes, please say aye. Aye.
Raise your hand.
I got us chair. We're good. Thank you.
Thank you. I forgot we were doing the hand thing. All right. Thanks, Nicole. next agenda item the affordable housing application presentation. We do have a guest from Habitat for Humanity who will walk us through Without so
Sandra's? Sorry. Go ahead, Karen. Kathy. Kathy.
Yeah. So I was just going to lead off and give you some background on everything. And I think that son also has a math that we're going to put on to get everybody scheduled around this. so that you know where the location of the project is. So this is the mountain Brook subdivision is a new one that just is coming in and is going through all of the development approvals through the city.
Nelson road is up here.
Home Depot and target are over here. If you can see, can you see my pointer?
Yes, we can.
Okay, good. And then
Roger, no, I'm sorry. This is Rogers road. Nelson is down here. Sorry. Rogers is up. here. So this is a new development. This is primarily in this area is single family homes. And then over here would be townhomes. I believe primarily and then townhomes here. No, these are single family homes as well. Single Family, single family, townhomes. And then this section is one block because it's scheduled to be condominiums. And they go on on stay on one block. So it's it's kind of hard to tell, but all of this would be condos. So this development came in under the new inclusionary housing process. And so, as part of their inclusionary housing component, what they did is go to Council and talk through so what they're doing is down in this section down here, they are donating land to habitat We
can see we can't see your pointer anymore. I don't know where it went, Oh, just FYI.
Okay, down in the bottom left corner that is highlighted in yellow is the habitat units. And then over right next to it to the right in the little triangle shape is what would be the veterans village component. And that's going to be Thank you whoever's doing that. That is going to be Tiny Homes for veterans who are formerly homeless or experiencing homelessness, to help get them into housing and back into permanent housing as quickly as possible. So that is a total of 26 Tiny Homes and eight habitat homes, which is a total of 34, which is a little bit less than the 12% by actually quite a bit, but we also have a provision in our inclusionary housing program that allows for if you are providing rental housing that is below 40% ami. And for sale housing that is affordable below 60% ami, that you can reduce your inclusionary housing to 9%. This development got really close, I think they're at 8.4%. Actually the the 34 units and council gave them a pass on that because in addition to donating the land that the mountain Brook development is also going to not only do the off site infrastructure, but also do on site infrastructure. So usually when a developer donates land to a nonprofit, under inclusionary housing, they only have to make sure they get the infrastructure to the site. They don't have to do all of the tabs and all of the water lines sight that the developer is going to be doing that. So they're doing, providing more than what they ordinarily would. So council agreed to accept that, as well as because of the tiny home village that is getting to extremely low income, formerly persons experiencing homelessness that they agreed to allow an eight point, whatever it is 4% I think, total inclusionary housing development so. So the units we're here to talk about are the eight here in this lower left corner, highlighted in yellow. So that just kind of gives you a little bit of a grounding in that. And then I also wanted to just point out that this is our presentation from the developer, and there'll be time for them to give their walk. through the presentation, and then there'll be questions and answers. And if you remember the last time we discussed the process for considering affordable housing projects, we wanted to change things up a little bit and give the housing advisory board
more information and an ability to
understand and be more involved with the application process so that you didn't feel like you were rubber stamping recommendations, and that you had a better understanding of the project. So that's why we're holding the presentation in a joint meeting with the TRG. And there are, I think almost all members of the TRG are also in attendance at this meeting. So both groups will be able to ask questions when we get to the question and answer period.
And then I also
think there was something else that Oh, no decisions will be made tonight. So this is just the presentation than the TR GE is going to meet I believe it's next Wednesday evening to discuss this project and make a recommendation that we'll come back to the housing advisory board at your next regular meeting in July. And then we'll we'll move forward from there and then we'll debrief and see how, how this process went and, and move forward. So with that, I think you can go ahead and start the habitat presentation. And I don't know if john or David is going to start first but go ahead.
Okay, thank you, Kathy. No, I will. I will start and defer to john if I have some things I'd like him to speak into. But first and foremost, thank you so much for taking time and considering this application. We're really really excited I we started a while we're this application is for our side of things. We started looking at the veteran's village concept and ending that homelessness and January 2018. So it's been a, it's been a great project to be a part of real, real excited. There is a relationship back in Kansas City with habitat and veterans community project. So it's really we're excited to get that going. And then the other thing we wanted to mention is this is the first application we've put forward as a chomo. As a certified housing development organization, several habitat affiliates have a chotto as an alarm, allows them to do a few other things. Kathy encouraged us to look at that and consider that several years ago, we have had that in place on the infrastructure in place and the approval, but this is the first application and project that we'd be working towards. Excuse me, can you go to the next slide? Or am I able to Advanced that.
So, before I get into the specifics of this project, I did want to just take a step back on, and it's focused on what habitat has been able to do over the last 31 years. It's just really been incredible to see the growth decade by decade with the community's support. Not only in the type of products, new construction, but also and repairs but geographically. But the reason I put this up here is just simply to say that the city Longmont has been a part of that from the very beginning. I really cannot think of a project that we've been involved with in Longmont that has not had support from the city. So I'm, I want to thank you for that. And what we've seen over the last decade is really almost a doubling if not more of it. impact and capacity to serve on so like I said we were doing other projects but we're also we have expanded out into areas outside of Longmont and at first blush that may not seem to benefit on Longmont directly, but I did want to make a comment that we're finding is a lot of the folks who are serving in these other areas are tied to Longmont. And then perhaps more importantly, one of the things we're able to do by being in these other areas is we're adding capacity that impacts Longmont and that's kind of a complicated thing, but I'll just give one example. In both the Conal and Estes Park, we're able to leverage a US Department of Agriculture product that is not available to us in Longmont. So in addition to that, helping us serve families there, it allows us to invest in professional staff that end up working in line Mine. So I'm just really want to thank you for being involved in our growth and we really do believe we're going to be able to significantly increase our capacity and serve more families and build a lot faster in Longmont going forward with the support that you've shown us over the last many years. We're going to advance the next slide. So as Kathy said, This project is at the end of Anderson road, just north Nelson between airport and holdover. It's a joint effort between the st brain habitat and the developer who's been helping us on in other ways on the land and infrastructure was to go donated it is the first inclusionary housing project that we've been a part of. And as Cassie said, these homes will be permanently affordable at 60% ami. The other thing I I'd mentioned is these homes will be all electric. Actually, the homes we're building now in Longmont are all electric. And really what we're looking at is a couple of things is really overall that will decrease our costs because we're not paying to bring in gas. We're also able to use a different type of H fac system that is less expensive, but is easier to install so our volunteers can do it. So from a timing standpoint, in terms of getting these houses built, we reduce the amount of time we need to get the houses built and we're spending less money and this product that we're using for the fact that is electrical allow us to bring in cooling. So there's a lot of ones all around and we're really excited about that. We can go to the next slide. So, um, this is just a street rendering a very pretty accurate street rendering of the eight homes that we'll be building. So there are four duplexes. One of the things that we have looked at over the years and just reflected back on is our product offerings and while the site plan that in the neighborhood that we're building in doesn't always allow us to get some product diversity. In a situation like this, we've been tried to be intentional about not just building one type of product from the standpoint of accessibility visibility, things of that nature. So
we the with these duplexes, the end two units will actually be a one story two bedroom. The middle two units will be one one of the duplexes will three three bedrooms Another duplex will be four bedroom is when we look back at the families and individuals we were selecting a great many of them actually could have been Okay, um, with a two bedroom and that accounts for growth and family and things like that really a three bedroom will was going a little bit above and beyond what we needed to do. So in this project what we do not have not selected the families yet, we really wanted to create some product diversity so people weren't self selecting out, we really don't have any data to suggest that people were self selecting out. But we do know sometimes when you're dealing with a two story product that may be there may be folks who are not as excited about that and may not be looking at our product. So that's the that's the way we're going with this with these eight homes. If you can go to the next slide then Just a rear view of that and not very exciting except to say these are two car garages we really thought through making sure parking is is not an issue. So there's a decent amount of room off that auto port there and both and on Anderson actually has parking in front, but we've accounted for a lot of parking there. And Vance to the next slide. So just to give a little bit more detail on spend some time on the two bedrooms, which are the four homes so single storey construction, all four of those homes will be handicap visible on we can easily modify it add features supporting those in wheelchairs. So at that point, later on as as we get closer with the construction of those homes, obviously we're working with the families specifically. We have a lot of experience, whether it's Lower countertops or shower features bathroom features that allow for those in wheelchairs. And so one bathroom with shower two car garage, and we're pricing those at 200,000 at zero percent interest. So the two ways that habitat really is able to hit that 60% or lower ami is is the price point, the 200,000. But what's often overlooked is that zero percent or or seldom quantified. So if we looked at the payment for a $200,000, home, ignoring escrow, things like that, that's about $555. Exactly a month for a 30 year loan. If we were to look at a 4% loan in the market, which is about where the market is, the price point would have to be 116. Thousand for a 30 year loan to equal 555. So it's really that financing aspect of what we do that makes the Home Affordable almost more so than the price point.
I mean go to the next slide
and then the three and four bedroom
The only thing I highlight there is a little bit higher when we deal with going up a little bit higher cost 215,200 25,000 at zero percent interest for the three and four bedroom respectfully. Um, if we can go to the last line. So when we look at financial support when we look at our costs, overall, we know going in we have some things that we can count on but a lot of stuff we are certainly relying on the community to To support what we're doing. So let me start with mortgage sales. So we we originate all our mortgages, but since 2009 2010, we have really developed a lot of our banking and financial partners. In such a way that we saved brain habitat on ends up selling the majority of its mortgages to Pete to banks that we have partnerships with, without getting too complicated. What that means is if I sell a 200,000 zero percent interest loan to one of our banking partners, Bill equivalent is that and that becomes a loan at 130,000. At 3%. The payment to the family is the same and the terms are the same except it has interest but the monthly cost is the same to the homeowner what that allows habitat to take that amount and put it right into the next project or in this case to pay off a construction loan. We have in Thailand and infrastructure that number was taken directly from on an appraisal that the developer did and shared with us in terms of the land and the infrastructure, and as Kathy alluded to the infrastructure is really a major deal we have done on site infrastructure coordinated that if you will, and um, but it's really such an advantage to have a developer hand us what we would call builder ready lots where we're putting in the foundation and then going off, that's what we really that's really our wheelhouse there. And then other inclined subcontractors. These are not written documented contracts, but we have enjoyed great success with are great blessings. With, if you will with our folks in the community who own businesses and at national level on that either greatly discount or donate things to us. So next evading is a great example of that they have probably dug the foundation for other every habitat safe rain home that we've ever built from nothing. And that's quite a quite a, a donation there. So that's about $201,000. We will be asking for city fee waivers. This is an estimate, obviously that gets finalized when we submit our application. We do have a commitment with commitment, excuse me with the Colorado division of housing for 62,000. That's an estimate based on about that that's a contract that goes through habitat Colorado I should say. And that's spread out over the habitat habitat affiliates throughout the state of Colorado. That's a conservative estimate of the number of homes that will be with that will have that grant. And then the remainder is on that shoto funding request that we put before you 420,000. So I'm really that's, that's what we have to present to you tonight. And we'd be happy to answer any questions, john. So anything I missed that that you wanted to reiterate?
No, not really, I think just a clarification on that three, four bedroom. The fourth bedroom will actually do, they'll be a three bedroom house next to a four bedroom house, the fourth bedroom goes over the garage. So we do have a way to expand that and and add an additional bathroom in the process. So that's the only clarification I could give you.
Thank you both for that presentation.
So let's open it up for questions.
And I think the easiest way to be recognized is just blurt it out because unless Nicole unless you can see everybody at once I can't
share you should be able to change your view top where it says gallery
gotcha. Yeah, I got this. I got the gallery view now. Okay.
I have a question.
Here it says Rogers on your slides it said Rogers road entitlement work is underway. What does that mean?
What is Roger Rosen, Roger road, Rogers road entitlement work.
Well, I I'm not sure which slide you're looking at. I think at one point we wanted to give an update on there's a couple of Rogers road but Rogers road on the east side. Have Longmont the city had helped us last year. So we had acquired a property. And we were I think john and i were looking to give an update and maybe we we sent a slide inadvertently, but Oh, okay. Yeah, we acquired property with an affordable housing loan, the city donated land. And we're getting the final architecture as we speak. We've met with the city about what we can do. We're looking at a site plan of 10 units on that will we'll be starting the application process very shortly on that lawn.
Okay, cuz this is what this is Rogers road to.
Right. Right. Yeah. All right. Thank you about that. That's okay.
Thank you. And I think Jake, you had a query
You just want some sounds like there you go.
Mr. Those acts. Thank you, Mr. Chair. That was actually going to be my my question. was about the the previous Rogers was projects that habitat has come in on. No real no real questions. I just I I'm very impressed. I think it's a very, it's a much needed project. I appreciate any opportunity to create permanently affordable for sale housing and 60% below which you all do a great job of so I'm the only I would say two boosters. I see a couple of our tier g folks don't have their cameras on or don't have questions. So if anybody else from that group has questions, I I'm impressed. So thank you all for being here. Sure.
Do we have any TRG members who would like to ask a question
or Yes, Diane?
Hey, yeah, um, a question for habitat and that is, in your other properties. What is the highest number of neighbors that you have had
Count is ringing.
Number of neighbors. You mean today?
Yeah. Habitat habitat. Yeah, I was just curious.
So I'll try to answer that and make sure I understand it. But we just finished poplar Grove, which was 21 units within 100 unit, condominium Association. But that's got a commercial to one side and a vacant land to the other. I don't know if your question is in relation to having 25 units next to us with veteran's village. No, okay. Um, so I mean, I think our most dense project would certainly be that 21 units, which we felt comfortable with being 20% of an existing condominium Association. One of the things I should point out is on the back alleyway is One of the things we did not want to do that we found just as a struggle is our small homeowners association. So when we can create this as a townhome ownership model. So people own there'll be a third party wall agreement. That back alley actually will be part of a veteran's village with an easement and access easement or working with an attorney and veterans community project. They're in great position to be able to do snow removal and things like that and then have our homeowners pay a small amount for that because they have a I don't know if one of the visuals maybe Kathy's map shows it but there's a decent parking lot to the south of veterans village and then it's kind of a private drive that comes off of Anderson to that parking lot. And then Homeowners would curve up onto that auto court. And so there is a need for routine maintenance and an eight unit eight member Hoa, you know can be a little bit hard to govern. But if there's an agreement to have a veterans community project, do it and defer some of the costs for doing it. It's more efficient. So we're looking at that, but that's the way it's being proposed and as platted
Thank you, any other TRG members that have questions for our guests? Okay, how about h h sab board members?
Looks like Karen has a question.
It is muted. Hang on.
Are you go go ahead and
do you pick the people and then build the
house? Or how does that work? Yeah, so, um, we're in a little bit of a transition. And I'll try not to make this too complicated. But I think one of the things we were concerned about is we were selecting families quite a bit ahead of the houses being built, and individuals were waiting quite a while. So we are and then the other thing is, at times it got into this weird dynamic that construction might be delaying, because the homeowner wasn't ready. And so we are selecting now for this project. But until we get to a certain point where the homeowner has done their educational component, and a certain percentage of their sweat equity, they will not be tied to a house so it will come a little bit Later, but not in a way where we can't make adjustments on the finishing touches. So homeowners do pick cab, cabinet colors, countertops, flooring, you know, we have a lot of folks who need hard, hard surface flooring rather than carpet because of allergies. So we won't jeopardize that customization. But we're not going to delay construction. I know one of the things that we have wanted to make sure we're doing and we are going very, very fast right now, um, with our Blitz buildings, we started to have them on Marshall place at the end of March. They are completely dried in the exteriors almost 100% done, it's just being painted and the subs are in. We don't want to delay the construction of those houses given the need to wait for all the pieces to be ready for a specific homeowner. So It will happen really in conjunction. And as I say this, I'm sure this is confusing. But we are selecting hopefully well enough in advance so that we can make sure that if there are specific needs, it's ready but not so far in advance that people are waiting for, you know, many, many, many months and or it's creating an issue with the construction schedule. Does that make sense? Somewhat?
Yeah. Thank you, David. Aaron needs to unmute.
Karen, can you unmute yourself or There
Somebody did. I just you know, this might seem real piddly but
I have a handicapped son and I'm hoping when you do your handicap
bathrooms that you do a roll in shower. Right. So, you know, yeah, the you know, the other things you know, the pain bar, that doesn't work, but if someone's in a wheelchair, they need a roll in shower, and it's really a habit If you do an after, yeah, for sure, and I hope I didn't imply that that was jeopardized. We I mean, we just finished one into Conal that had significant handicap on considerations, you know, for the the son. So we'll make sure that that that remains accounted for I think in the long run, what we'd like to see is a pool of qualified buyers. Um, you know, because it does take, we want to see people moving towards homeownership and frankly, whether that's in our product or other products, elevations community land trust has products available on there. You know, there may be other homeownership products online in some cases, people may move if we're involved in, in helping prepare people for homeownership. There may be market rate opportunities there, but We would like to see a pool of people getting ready and qualified so that if something does come off, they're ready. So on occasion, we have had homeowners who have not met their obligations, whether it's education or sweat equity, or there's been a material change to their financial situation. And as a mortgage lender, we legally cannot put someone in a mortgage. That is inappropriate for them. So a house does come, if you will available at the last minute. So that's really, I guess what I'm saying is we'd like to see a pool of folks that are that are ready, but we absolutely I mean, I don't know what the number is, but we've had several families and individuals that have needed um, considerations for doing it. Well, the handicap ADA, and so we all know that
Let me let me jump in here, Karen, just to answer the rest of your question. So the thing we're really excited about, especially with these two bedroom units right now that we're building is it'll have zero entryway, all the doorways will be built wide enough for a wheelchair from the beginning. And there'll be enough turn radius within the bathroom that's there, into the shower, that we've really kind of changed our approach and thinking on that. So while we don't necessarily put lower shelves in unless there's a wheelchair family need for that. We have made a very conscious decision for designing those to be handicapped, accessible, as accessible, if necessary, and that the family can age in place there. I mean, that's the other new consideration we're trying to get on board with from our design aspect.
That's wonderful. Thanks.
Thank you. Okay, David, I just have one quick question. And this might be for john as well. You mentioned selling the mortgage and how it works in terms of reducing the principal, basically, and the bank reduces principal increases interest, does that have any impact on equity in the home, and potentially how the owners would would be affected by that are
up your habit to mute myself in these meetings, but no, it doesn't impact their equity at all in these case, and we are still working on what that final legal instrument will look like, but the sales price will be dictated by a formula arm. So really, there's a couple of advantages one when we want one of the things that in addition of financial, we're not individually as big enough to report to credit agencies. So the majority of our families are very good. You know, 90 something percent are paying on time. They're not getting any credit for that with the credit agencies, which, you know, if you study them, any of you are familiar, that it just has such an impact on other things that you don't even think about. So in addition to not impacting any direct equity on potential, it also gives those who are performing on their mortgage credit with the agencies that we can't on. We can't provide because of our size.
Yeah, that's an excellent point. Thank you. Just one follow up point on that in a time like this, when so many people Particularly those at the lower income levels are really hurting because they may be unemployed at this point. There's a little bit more well, banks could be relatively unforgiving if you're unable to pay your mortgage. Whereas I'm thinking if you're holding the mortgage, you may have more flexibility in being able to address that. Have you seen any issues with that? And?
Yeah, that's, that's a great point. And so one of the things that we do is we put an irrevocable limited power of attorney, because we want to track that and our board actually states that I can't be uninformed about how these programs are going. In other words, our board and staff we want to we don't want to find out a year later that the mortgages we've sold are doing disproportionately worse than the others. So um, we do track that that's reported to the board right now. We actually See performance problems all in the ones that we hold. But to your point if it you know, if there's a depression or recession, certainly people will be on, you know, we'll be have issues there. Every that's why it all of the relationships with these banking partners are relationships. So chafa is one. And actually we have to swip swap out a mortgage, we would do the foreclosure if it came to that. One of the local banks as a statewide program that they've told us over and over, they would not want to be the ones to foreclose on a habitat home. So likely what would happen is we would swap that out with the pool of mortgages that we have, but it's not an obligation in all cases, some some cases we still are. We encourage our families to work through the banks. You know, our banking Because we have those relationships. The third one is the United States Department of Agriculture none in Longmont, but they haven't, frankly, a forbearance program or procedure that's far more progressive than ours would be in terms of workout. So we're very careful about who we're working with on. But we also don't want the public or homeowners to think that there won't be consequences for defaults. There will be luckily in our, in our experience, a couple things I'll just mention we have not had a foreclosure yet. And I say yet because over you over the years, it probably will happen. In fact, so, but it's come close. In this this pandemic we're seeing now it's just a great testament to our homeowners. We have one workout, we have three that have talked to us But our families have really worked hard to stay on top of their mortgage. So right now knock on wood, we're not seeing a huge impact and I believe some of that has to do with not a lot of how we priced those mortgages, our front end ratio we keep between 27 and 30%. Now it's 27% meaning we're going to look at Hoa property taxes, insurance and principal we're going to make sure that that payment is 27% of the homeowners payment and now that they're permanently affordable that property tax is monitored moderated in such a way that that won't even though because we don't we don't increase the we don't stick to that ratio, but at least in the beginning, it's set to be affordable and um, you know, which is is quite low. Compared to what a lot of other lending options will allow people to incur based on their income.
Ryan, I just had one other point you know about what's going on. There are definitely benefits for us being part of a larger organization. Habitat Colorado recently got a grant from the realtors Association for realtors association to help with mortgage payments. So if any of our families did run into a real bind, we have access to grant money, they can at least get them through a couple of months ago. That's kind of the benefit of being part of the greater habitat.
Yeah, that's great to know. Thank you, john. Any other questions from board members? TRG members. Okay, well, thank you both for I
your say so my question is
I guess somewhat the elephant in the room under the inclusionary housing program, developers are supposed to be providing the affordable housing, either on site through partnerships or by making the payment in lieu. So under this Agreement, why should the city invest more than the fee waivers that we would give to anyone who provided units on site? When it's really, people could argue that it's the developer's responsibility to ensure that the affordable housing is fully
so is a double dipping to do get the land and the and the fee waivers? I'm sorry, sorry. I'm trying to understand the question is that, me or a question to the committee.
Know, it's a question to you all. Why Why should the city invest more funding besides the fee waivers that everyone can get? I mean, a regular developer that's providing their units on site at the 12% could ask for the fee waivers and they would get them so why would Why should the city invest more money in this particular development?
Yeah, I can.
I can just my opinion is that I don't see you know, anyone hitting 60% ami. Um, and I mean, the average of our homes have been more 40 to 50% ami. For home ownership, which is permanently on it, at least from what we see and there are exceptions but eliminating a subsidy for a family and And we've seen cross generational impact. Um, so I think, I think without that support, you know, just the reality is that either one will will drift closer to right to the edge of that 60% or it will take more fundraising to get those homes built.
you know, if I guess what
I am not sure I understand is if someone at 12% is getting fee waivers and doing the affordable, we would be getting fee waivers. They're doing 9% but we're hitting the reason we're at 9% is because we're hitting a population that is more more vulnerable. Not only is that first family at 60%, but it's permanently affordable at 60% going forward whereas most programs with homeownership are at percent?
Well, it and the developer provides less housing already because of the partnership and getting to the lower ami. So I just think it's an interesting question Where are, you know, are regular development that the developer was providing the units on site? there not be additional city investment beyond the fee waivers?
Well, I mean, honestly, Kathy, that's one of the reasons that this request is coming in under the how the Community Housing Development Organization, home, the home funding requires funding for Chodos. And this is our first attempt to marry habitats work with our Troodos work. And I think that it's important to keep that in mind that that's something HUD encourages.
It's the it's the federal money that's driving the Trudeau side of things. The city fee waivers are because the city wants to encourage homeownership and homeownership at a level that that developers would not provide.
Is that a fair explanation?
Yeah. And I'm not arguing the fee waivers at all that I have. That is the additional investment that I was concerned about. I think Lori's got a question.
Hi, I'm exploring Walker and I'm on the TRG. And, Kathy, I hadn't thought of your question, and that does bring up a good point. I think that that may be a question that either the TRG or the H. I'm sorry, I don't know the abbreviation of that group. And or the council has to direct us because I think that not only habitat, but all the other applications that we're going to get are going to have the same issue. Because I think most of the inlets are coming in for rehab for an apartment or something most of these are probably going to be for because
the developer gave them the land for new developments. So I think for any of the new new properties, we're going to have this same issue.
And I wish so I may have misunderstood your question, Kathy, because I focused on the fee waivers. Question was more additional subsidy of the 120. And I don't have the figures in front of me, but I am routinely shocked at what subsidies the city of Boulder has to provide, if you will, to that affiliate on to me, the developer, bringing what they are the fee waivers that have been in place and 15,000 a house to get permanently affordable homeownership at 50 to 60%. ami is a fairly small investment from what I have seen.
And I can I can give you an example I was with the flatirons habitat and the eight unit development that one of the eight unit developments we did while I was there, City of Boulder was subsidizing $320,000 for that particular project. And that was also donated plan, and the city was also providing fee waivers. So I think that Yeah, the incremental investment we're asking for from the CIT from this organization. Again, driven by our Community Housing Development Organization begets a lot of additional investment from other places.
I would argue I don't think you can totally compare us to the holder with the housing costs and the land costs. So
I wanted to throw it out. I thought it's an interesting question and the more feedback we get from the housing advisory board or the TRG, just to start thinking about it, because as Laurie said, we are gonna, you know, get a number of these probably so I think we have to kind of think, think through that.
Kathy, I think that is a really important question. And I guess ultimately the answer sorry, not the answer. The question to me is what the city of Longmont need to invest in order to ensure that we have low income housing And homeownership in that segment, or rather affordable housing. So the I'd love to learn more about your viewpoint, Kathy, on that our staff viewpoint. But I think for the purposes of this presentation, we are.
I think David and john answered that question, Karen.
Well, yeah. And I think it really it's, it's, it's about our inclusionary housing program and how that is set up. And, you know, so, so certainly, the, I think what Kathy is, is questioning is, is that the in and how we would envision that that certainly, that that habitat would be able to build the homes get the fee waivers, but there wouldn't be an additional subsidy that will be required by The city through the affordable housing fund to help develop mer meet its its obligation is really thick and that that's probably not necessarily for Habitat to answer but but it is.
It does it does raise a question.
So, so that's that's probably not for Habitat per se, unless Kathy has thought about that. But but it that 120,000 if that's the gap that needs to be filled.
Yeah, and if I only not coming from affordable housing fun,
um, maybe I'm out of line, but, um, if you're the answer to the question is to go back to the development community. I pull the application right now on will work harder to work with general fundraising, corporations, individuals, and so forth. But you can't build houses without land on. So I would just be very, very careful on that how you solve the issue. And I'm not saying it's it's it's not a very fair question. Um, but the last thing I would want to say, having done this for a long time is for the development community to bear a larger role on that if if this is not the way you want to fund projects on, I think we need to go back to the community first.
So if I may ask, Kathy and Karen, I think mostly to Kathy, is this request for this project out? Not? What sort of has this kind of request not been made for before from Habitat for Humanity?
No, because they have not partnered under inclusionary housing before Okay, so other other requests were for standalone projects.
We also have not been a choco so I think we'd have to understand what the value of having a housing development organization is because we have been led to believe that that opens up different parts of different money that can support these projects out available to us. And in Longmont, there was not at the time there was three or two Chodos. Now there are none. It's my understanding. So again, we may be misinformed. Um, but I want to make sure it's not just new because it's inclusionary housing. It's also new because we are leveraging what we were led to believe was a way to access federal money on into long long.
Absolutely. And it's not a it's not a automatic. It's still competitive with drug Consortium. So I think Caitlin's had a yes. Well,
um, I think I it's late enough in the weekend in the day that I'm trying to do a little bit of math in my head. And I think this is kind of maybe rehash a little bit of what Kathy has brought up. But I want to sort of step back. The inclusionary housing program, I just want to make sure that I'm clear on this Sure, is that a developer has to provide a certain percentage of units or pay a fee in lieu, typically that percentage is 12%. It gets dropped to 9%. If we're targeting sort of that 40 to 60 ami range, instead of the 60 to 80. And then in this case, we're at 8.4%. So we're still also below that. So we've sort of lost three and a half percent of the units But they would normally have to pay. They're also not having to pay the fee for that three and a half percent. And then we're also being asked to provide 120,000 from the affordable housing fund to, to do this. So, to me, it sounds like it feels like we're seeing either like a gap in what our inclusionary housing requires that if developers can't meet those requirements, because it's just financially unsustainable. I don't know if that's the message we're getting here. Or there. There seems to be a gap here, right? Like if, if consistently developers can't meet those requirements, either to pay the fee, or to do a fee combo with the percentage. That seems like it may be something like are we seeing a lot of requests this way? This is my first year on the boards. I don't know. I don't think that we've seen other requests like this coming through so far this year, but it's it's Something that we're seeing across developers where we're getting additional requests for subsidies or relaxed requirements under inclusionary. Housing.
Hey, Luna Sadie, question. That
is a question. I mean, I don't. So one is my understanding correct of like, sort of what's happening here? I think that's what Kathy is talking about. And to is this something that suggests that like, what we're requiring from inclusionary housing is not something that developers are going to be able to meet like, Are we going to continue to see requests like this? Because they can't meet it, financially speaking?
So I think my answer to that would be I don't think we're far enough along to know that for sure whether or not this is going to be something that happens consistently, everything we've seen so far, that's related to inclusionary housing that we have Have seen for funding. So I'm thinking like of long multifamily apartments that came in and we funded them, but we got lower income units as a result of our our funding for them than what they had originally penciled in. So and they are a they are the developer of the entire development in providing 100%. affordable. So it's a little bit different in that respect. So this is really the first one that we've seen that's come in for assistance that is really helping to developer meet their inclusionary housing requirements. And we are likely to see it again. So I think we do kind of need to think through
Let me ask you, I think you also said at the beginning that they were meeting, the developer is meeting his inclusionary housing requirement, not just with the habitat units, but also with the veteran's village units correct. And that those are serving people that will be under potentially non income people. So I mean, we
coming in for funding.
That's true, but somebody's got to be first. And I guess that's us.
Yeah. It's really it was really just to ask the question and start thinking about I don't think we have to solve it tonight. opinions about it, or thoughts about it. That's really more what I was trying to get through. I just think it's something that either the TRG needs to make some have a policy around or a proposal for a policy, or we don't care, you know, if we're getting units and we're getting them at very low incomes, and it meets our investment per unit kind of thing. That's fine, and that's fine. It's it's really, I was just saying On the question out there, because I think we really do need to think about it a little bit. I wasn't really saying just for this project, it was more broad kind of thing, but I was interested in hearing what your opinion of that was. So and you did give that so and you did generate
right? It did. Sorry, I asked it at the very end.
Okay, well, let's go ahead and close this conversation. And thank you, David, and john, for your presentation, as well as all the work you do. It's Habitat for Humanity is really a critical partner in the affordable housing area. So Brian, yeah, wait. Thank you. And thank you to our TRG members who are being patient through this process of this combined meeting, particularly in zoom format at Sault new to me. Certainly But I feel like this has been really helpful for myself and hopefully the rest of the housing and Human Services Advisory Board, so we can feel better informed when we're evaluating your recommendations. So thank you for participating and letting this format happen. Kathy, I'm guessing anybody who is TRG can feel free to go about the rest of their probably much more boring activities than this exciting one. But
yeah, if they can peel themselves away, they're free to go.
Yeah. Okay. I have a quick
question for Kathy. And that is, do you want us to generate our thoughts, I concerns questions about this percentage and send it to you ahead of time before next Wednesday.
If you have time to do that. Yes, send him to Molly. Okay. And she'll gather all those together and if if there's anything we can feed to habitat that So to try and get them thinking about the answers, that that's helpful then for the meeting on Wednesday.
Well, I guess my question is, is more about that percentage of the fee waivers and? Ico and and all of that?
Yeah. Do you see anything that you've got feed in to us? And we'll if we need to follow up, we will if we don't, we'll discuss it on at our meeting, right.
Yeah. All right. Thank you. All right. Thanks, TRG. And now we will move on to redoing the draft of the 2021 human service agency application and timeline. Karen, is that something you're going to take the lead on or is that Oberto?
I believe, I liberto Mendoza is going to start us off Really? And I think more talking about the timeline for the application.
Terrific. Take it away Ellie Berto.
Alright so I will Try and talk into the camera, but I can't see you all now.
So I'm going to pull up the timeline.
We'll start there. And then we do have some questions about the application. So as you know, we've been working on and I can give a, you know, brief in the timeline, there is a brief update on the queue service needs assessment. Karen, I have been working very closely with route policy on moving that needs assessment forward. We have reached out to many of our funding agencies and a few outside of those that have been funded that are within our priority areas,
have focus groups and policies taking the lead on that In fact, so if you look at the timeline in your packet right now, this is when this is happening, I think, and I don't have this, they already sent us the schedule of focus groups, and it's in the spreadsheet, and I don't have it in front of me. But the first one is June 18. And then it moves on from there. And we were hoping I'll come back to the application. As you can see, at the time, it talks about the the the potential change the advocate, I'll come back to that, because I character and I talked, I think it's more of a conversation that we want to have with the board. So we hope in July, there will be some, some other interviews and focus groups but we hope to the goal is to receive a draft of the report by the end of July July 31. That is That'll give Karen and I and other staff a chance to review the report. And also, in our July meeting, hopefully we'll get to bring the the application that we'll discuss tonight, or the
that may or may not have been July We'll see.
But we will have by August, the plan is that you will have viewed the app the human service needs report and thus we can begin our work. In the August meeting of setting our new priorities or shifting within priorities whatever we decide to do as a board and start creating that funding matrix like we have in the past we assign percentages
and change we can talk about changing
how we how we score or grade The applications. The idea really is that we release our application in September or late August. And to have it, give them at least four to six weeks to do it. We've done as you know, I do, we've done eight, and we've done six weeks, depending on how soon part of the process we're going to talk about tonight is what does simplification mean? That might also determine what is our timeframe. And in that time is December, we finalize what our evaluation process is going to be? For example, we start we set what our hearing schedule is going to look like, what are those new hearings? What will they look like? And then in October, that will more than likely be when we get the applications and we do the theory and schedules. We finish them by November and we try And have our first deliberation at the November board meeting. And we can take also the December board meeting if needed. And then we can, once we, you know, finalize our deliberations we can send notices to the agencies and bring the recommendation to city council in January of 2021 for final approval, and then we start contracts in February of 2021. And that is not to off based on what we did this year. I did send out in as Karen mentioned at our last meeting, usually what takes the most time is really hearing back is this scope of services or scope of work negotiation process. That usually takes the longest and I sent it in on December 29. And it really took for some agencies it was quicker than others but it takes a couple of months to get through all the agencies to get the those negotiations done. But hopefully, if we can send those out in January, then we can still, you know, ensure that agencies receive their,
their allocations in a timely manner.
So I can't see all of you. Now I can. So I'm not sure anybody has any questions on the timelines at this point.
So does that count Alberta? Does that constitute a two month delay or extension or the last year and they're really not right?
It really Yeah, actually it is very much a two month push back in which is, if you think about it last year, we let out the application I think in mid June and or July, and they were due at the end of August. We are shortening a little bit, we are shortening the time that we're giving at agencies to fill it out. But, and that's important because we want to have the conversation around what is vacation mean. So if we have a more, a simpler, quote, unquote, application, do folks need time to fill it out? And it's probably the Congress you want to have to make the board.
You know, I would I would add is, is that but last year, you know, we took our recommendations to city council in December, like mid December, and this year, we would take those just one month later. So it's between one one and two months. So I mean, think what we're shorting, always be shorting up is the probably a good time to agencies have to apply and complete the application. And then we would also, I think, be shortening up the time for the advisory board to review the applications, but it's really more close to month, month and a half maybe is the
splitting hairs. But anyhow.
All right. Thank you, Alberto. And Karen. Any other questions for Roberto?
No. Okay. And Roberto, do you need us to take an action on this, or is this informational at this point?
It's informational. But I think partly I like parenting. You know, as I think the confusion we wanted to have tonight is really the question around, you know, what would the board expect to see in a more streamlined or simplified application?
Yeah, so I think
so I think, you know, Brian, is the epitome The timeline looks good. If there's questions about the timeline. And we think that, you know, that's really, that's not going to work for some reason, and it would be great to hear additional input about that, or whether you think this is, you know, it seems like this is a feasible timeline for us to, for us to embrace that would be good to know. And, and then so is, is a, so the other direction that the advisory board gave us at the last meeting was, and we want to simplify the process. So like, okay, so we started to look at the application. Over the years, we really have tried to, in our minds dis, you know, just to reduce the questions to throw out things that really weren't, didn't add a lot of value as related to, you know, making decisions about funding. So We thought before we start whacking at the application that we would just try to get a better idea of what, what does simplify the process mean to you? Does that mean? You know, is there information that we asked for that you think just isn't valuable? And those are some things that that we would need to look at. And we can certainly bring this back in, in July for more specific discussion once we get some direction from you, because I realized that our new members probably, you know, don't know what that application looks like, except for if you've applied for that, that funding but so so is it. The application itself is is the amount of time that it takes to review the individual applications? Is it the fact that we are asking advisory board members to review every application and so that is it 35 or 40 applications, and that takes a long time. So we thought it would be helpful to understand a little better. What does simplify and streamline mean?
Okay, thank you. dictation, Karen. So from the general lack of questions on the timeline, and what I'm seeing on my screen, I would have to believe that the timeline is acceptable to everybody here. I also think that I think it's reasonable, we can manage it. And it's probably a good time to make, you know, a change in that regard. So let's say that the timeline looks good. So let's open the question for feedback on the application process, specifically, the app application and to Karen's question, What? What do we mean when we say we would like a more simplified process? I've got my own thoughts, but I like to start with any other board members first.
I was just gonna say, this is a difficult question for me to answer, as was alluded to previously, because I have I maybe I should know, but I don't know what these applications look like. And I'm not sure what information on the applications are, what information is particularly helpful or relevant, right. I feel like that's knowledge that we'll gain. Maybe next year. I'll have that knowledge, but this year, I don't yet have it. So feel a little bit.
I don't know,
unable to comment so much on that. I suppose I could ask if we could. Probably the applications are in the packet we got at the beginning of the training. I mean, I could review them and make an effort at trying to figure out what may not be helpful, but I do feel like this is a Question that new board members, we may just have to defer to you guys who've done this for longer. So sure,
yeah. And that's, I think, very fair. Caitlin, did you have a comment?
I did. So one of the things I was thinking about is that I know that liberto has been doing desk audits of many of the organizations that we already have relationships with, and it seems like, and we've gotten more information provided from these organizations in order to do those audits, to the extent that the application replicates that information. I think that one way we could streamline is to ask them to give us updated information since their last, you know, say, since their last desk audit, or since the last time they provided us information, rather than us necessarily having to get all of that same information and then having to compile all of the same information again. I don't know if that puts too much burden on the staff side of things. I know one of the things we talked about at the last meeting was trying to look At the fact that many of these organizations are feeling the squeeze from COVID-19. And what are ways that we can help sort of streamline it, knowing that they may be having reduced staff, they may have increased requests for support, and they're trying to focus on that direct support to our community. So to me, that's one way we can do that is to is to see, are we asking for duplicative information that we already have? And how can we change the questions to not make them recompile information that they have given us say, you know, in the last 12 to 18 months, for example, just give us the updates give us the latest information so that we can keep sort of that file, new organizations that may apply. I don't know how many, that tends to be. Obviously we would want to get more information from them. So that's one thought I have around simplifying the streamlining.
I would say that the good news is that the desk audit information is that is information we asked for that we do not ask for in the application. So it is it gets more in depth, it's by laws, its operational procedures. We do not ask any for any of that kind of data in the application itself. So
so for what that's worth, so
that's super helpful. That's super helpful to know.
Great, thank you. Anybody else?
So I think I second all, all of that.
I think that simplifying the process as a two fold benefit, one is to the organization's to make it easier and less burdensome on them, so that they can actually compete with her Do staff and time and all the rest, but that if we need to shrink the timeline that it's quicker and easier for this board to process that information, because I think at the last meeting, it was, it was proposed that maybe we don't even do applications when we sort of just did Oh, last year scores and that that didn't seem customizable to me at least. So if, if staff thinks that this timeline is realistic, if we and keeping the the questions as is, that would be an interesting thing to know. But I guess I assume that an abbreviated timeline would require some level of slashing the quantity and complexity of questions. And certainly on my side, I felt like reading and learning how to review those applications. Not only reading and scoring but but writing them is a special skill in my my estimation. It's not something you can meet at a coffee shop and QA over But that's definitely not the structure in the form of these questions and definitely not the way that we as a board are asked to assess them. So if we can, if we can make the the, the questions and gather the information that is valuable, no doubt, but in a way that is, that is just like real simple. And the assessment questions that we have that used to score directly clearly paralleled the questions. We're asking that stat because I remember reading the assessment questions to give a score, you know, a score on you know, how well that organization used information to, to better improve the processor, how they're gathering information. Well, the question I'm being asked, Is not the same question they're being asked. And so I have to really sort of dig in there and extrapolate and so that's the sort of complexity I feels unnecessary or or undesirable, and then an abbreviated, so that's what
I think that's super helpful. Grant So So it sounds like that we just need to make the evaluation, we need to sync it up better. So it's much easier when you're, you're evaluating the application. It It is very easy to track. So that's what I'm hearing would be helpful and at least simplifying it on the reviewer and, and so that you don't have to go fishing for or how to evaluate that particular question or section? That correct.
Okay, that sounds correct. And, Jake, you have a comment on this.
Yeah, I appreciate thank Miss tre appreciate what what Graham had to say. Because it really was my thought as well. And I think there's only three of us in the meeting tonight who have gone through this process before and Graham and I were new last year, so it's new to us too. But I agree completely. I found myself last year, really going back to the same three or four questions over and over again. like okay, this is The question I'm having to answer, here's the question that most directly correlates. So maybe I'm using I'm using all of it as important background. And it's good context to have. So I wonder if there's a way that we can streamline that element of it. So we get some of that information. Maybe through I know, we've tossed out histories last year, but maybe through and looking at, you know, whether would have just kind of a top line summary of what the agency does what, what's happened in the past where the problems have been. And then for the rest of the application really focused on here's what we're asked to score. Here's the question that correlates most directly with that. So that I'm left and new folks are and all the whole board is left basically being able to to streamline their review process as much as possible. Right. You know, and and also and I think we talked about this a little bit last year is, is and I know we'll do this later, but also just a focus on not just the in the logic mind. To not just on kind of the outcome questions, but also on community value questions and those kinds of conversations as well. But But generally, Yeah, I agree completely, I think here's the, you know, that's the probably the industry line. And here's the question. here's the here's the score
basis. So what I just want to what I'm hearing is that the streamline piece, so correct me if I'm wrong, because but this is the way that I'm understanding with Jake and Graham have said is, the streamlining piece really happens on the evaluation side, not that it can't happen on the application side. But it's really how do we ensure that whatever, evaluate whatever, that we are evaluating what we're asking for in the application, and that will make it a more streamlined processes? Is that is that what I'm hearing?
Yeah, can I think thanks for sharing Thanks, everybody. Yeah, I think that's exactly it. And ideally, it serves both sides. Like Graham said, ideally, if we're simplifying, if we're really honed in on the questions that we need in order to score them properly, whatever staff or this board decides those are, those are the questions that we're asking. It should be a shorter, simpler application for us on the other side. So we should benefit both, I would think.
Thank you. So my own little bit of feedback, I saw tend to be in life more of a storyteller than an analyst. And I find the application and the evaluation to be relatively technical. So often, what I feel I'm missing is like the story behind, here's who we are, here's what we do. Here's how we do it. And here's who benefits. So, an example of that is I often don't really understand how to use the data demographic data to help inform my decisions. And I'm guessing that there are other things that the demographic data is helpful for, which may be related to, you know, like federal funding guidelines or even just city funding guidelines, things like that. But in terms of evaluating the value of an application, they have at times provoked a question but not often framed and of course, a lot of the agencies don't even track it. So there's that as well. So I don't you know, what I basically just my comment kind of puts what I would consider one of the more difficult burdens on staff, which is to say, how do we have an application that provides the context for us to follow that chain of value and So we can pretty easily understand that chain of value relative to another chain. Because I feel like the evaluations, they're really they have to be relative, but they're kind of valuated in an absolute way. And so often by the time I get through 60 applications, I think, you know, I might have done that first one differently. Because now that I think we have this much money to spend in this area, and there's 10 agencies, and this one really just nailed it. But that first one sounded like it nailed it until I read the last one. And then I realized the first one didn't nail it at all. So yeah, I'm just going to put that out there. I don't know what this solution is to that. But I would suggest that there's a way to have it be less technical, and more information,
less data and more information.
Cuz, you know, the staff really doesn't have much to do anyway. So let's just make it really challenging and think about how would Hemingway write an application?
And I don't think you've had to evaluate 60 applications.
Feels like 600 Come on.
You're gonna scare them. They're gonna run away.
But he does. I understand it does feel like more than what we're actually,
you know, a lot of data logging. Yeah.
Council Member Christiansen Do you have any feedback on this? You've been participating in the board for quite some time.
Well, it seems we change
Everything every year, so that makes it a little difficult. But my participation, though, is different because I don't have a boat. And I don't really get to Valley evaluate the stuff like you do. So I don't really have a lot of feedback because I look at it once or participate in the interviews with people. But I don't because they don't have a voice. I mean, I don't have a vote. My opinion on this doesn't really matter that much. I don't think because I'm not doing the work that you guys are doing.
Yeah. Okay. Just want to make sure you have the opportunity to weigh in.
Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah.
Any other comments or guidance for staff on this? Karen? Do you feel like you've got enough to kind of start chewing on it or
I think Do Li Berto, what about you? And then you know, what we can do is do some work on this and, and bring back for discussion because obviously it's going to be a little while before we are ready to release the application, but it certainly will be here before you know it. But I think this gives us some some direction, I think the thing that we want to also try to be mindful of on our end
is that we really aren't going to be the only entity out of this three that will be releasing an application. So So again, we just want to be mindful how much we're going to be asking the city of Boulder staff to do and actually, you know, revising the application as you know itself. But we'll just we'll, we'll, we'll take some stabs at it and bring back for your for your further input.
Okay, I think this was really helpful to me. I And I think it is it was, in my mind, it was certainly time to release that evaluation, because the poly point application has changed. Last year, we did change the evaluation a little bit. Maybe it's time to take another deeper look at it and see how do we better align it with what we're asking.
Change it a lot.
Which I think is fine.
Let's go Jake. And then Graham.
Thanks, Mr. Chair, I just want to add, briefly kind of to what you were saying that there is a very technical element to our review process. You know, I forget if it's right brain or left brain that's more analytical, but I'm certainly not that whatever it is. So I kind of agree that as staff approaches this, thinking about since we are changing the application again, just how we as a board can provide the best input for you might be more long In the lines of some of those kind of different questions as you look at the the outcomes and the, on the on all the things that staff reviews, through this process, I think the best value that we can add is in you know, what is this bringing to the community? are they meeting their goals? Are they measuring things? Sure, but those value questions I'd really like to see stuff think about possible. Thank you.
I think I would just, you know, the shortest way I think about it is, is I think we we need to make sure these organizations missions are good at serving our communities not good at applying for money
to the extent we can make the application you know, just not be about can they get a grant writer and the good at you know, proving how good they are and that kind of stuff, but but the you know the story so to speak, right? Are they good at what they do, and even if they can't communicate that to us, we need to be able to see through that to see that they deserve to get money? That's
Yeah, that's a great point. And I'll just real quickly comment on that. In the years ago, somebody who taught me how to interview which, by the way, I'm still a horrible interviewer, but the advice was sound, which was, you know, ask the question. Are you a good organizer, for instance? And you know, the answer typically is going to be yes. And then the next question is, give me some examples of how you're a good organizer. And I think there's something similar here that we're looking for specific benefits, we're looking for those groups that are effective, that are engaged, and then these kinds of follow on questions like, you know, how would you explain your engagement to somebody? How do you know there's like some little nuance in there. So just kind of picking away of my brain? I'll think about it. But yeah, it sounds Slight there's enough guidance for staff to run with at this point. That's great.
All right, good. And so we do have some we have 16 minutes left, not 15 we have 16. site visit updates. Do we want to go ahead and do some quick site visit updates for Longmont Meals on Wheels center for people with disabilities and Boulder County legal services. I only ask that we reserve least five minutes I wanted to have some closing thoughts.
So Madeline Madeline is not here for I mean, I can do my part along Meals on Wheels. melanin is when I visited. Deanna is the one that did see the beauty and I did on my own. I did.
bolder kind people services. So those are the folks that that did this. Because I'm happy to do my thesis.
So maybe for time, you know, Brian, maybe we carry for meals on wheels. Yeah. Next month and hopefully Madeline is here and then do the other two.
Do we have okay? Yes. Let's go ahead and do the other two. That's great. So let's start with center for people with disabilities.
Elevate Oh, do I can't It's been so long since we've done one of these. And frankly, it's been so long since I went and visited. I'm not sure do I give my spiel on it first, or Alberto? Do you go first or
Either way, it's fine.
Okay, I mean, I'll just do it.
And then you can augment whatever I missed. So basically did this in February. So I barely remember it at this point in time. But so basically center for people with disabilities. Their mission is to provide resources and advocacy to help people to assist people with this abilities to overcome barriers to achieve Independent Living essentially, right? So it's hard to quantify their services in terms of number of people that they assist because the range of services that they provide is very diverse. So for example, they might answer a phone call that takes an hour or two to help somebody understand how to apply for social security disability, but they also do things like help people who are in nursing homes or assisted living, gain sufficient resources and supportive services to transition into independent living. And so you know, if you're just counting numbers of services, you know, each of those things is one person, right? But the amount of resources and services necessary to transition somebody out of a nursing home or an assisted living facility into their own independent living facility is obviously much more significant than that than what it takes to answer a phone call about social security disability. So they did assist I think about 2000 people last year. With that huge range of services that they provide, they have four locations, including obviously one in Longmont. Over half of their board and their staff are people with disabilities. They also have
they do a lot of peer support programs
and activities. They have a veteran's program that they work with to
have great materials to I'm really like I had to refresh my recollection, I'm looking at their annual report, which they gave me which is great, in a nice handout with lots of different materials in them too, with folders. They seem, you know, my take on it. Obviously, this was my first site visit, but my take on it was that they seem very well organized, they seem efficient, and that they're providing obviously probably as is the case with most of the organizations we're visiting a very needed resource.
Thank you, Dina appreciate it.
And as I look at their desk got it, you know, I only had, I only had a couple of questions and they really responded well, one was, you know, agency that size. Have a pretty small board. But and, like many agencies, diversity is an issue However, they do, like they mandate that 61% of the board must have a disability. And to me, that's an interesting point, right? They, they want to make sure that, you know, part of their diversity is the people that they serve, get represented on their board. And I think that's also important. Part of the challenge is that they don't really have term limits on the board and so people can be on there for a long time. There they you know, and they mentioned that at the at the site visit, you know, I had to leave that site, visit early. But they are really working on continue to diversify the board as much as possible just have some extra charges because you also have to be meet that disability criteria.
The only other question I had was around
a strategic plan. It's also a big agency. And when they did this guy, they hadn't turned in their most updated strategic plan, but then they did. I think it's a strong strategic plan overall. And so, you know, as far as the desktop is concerned, I think that they are a pretty well organized agency. And, and and have the, you know, the things that they they follow some of the best practices that are out there as far as nonprofits are concerned.
Great. Thank you, Roberto. And, Roberto, I think you're up on Boulder County legal services so Hippo,
well, I what I'll say about them is in Not surprising, right? This is a legal organization.
It was a
it was an interesting read of their bylaws. It was one of the most complicated bylaws I've ever read. And since attorneys wrote it, I assume that's part of why it was so complicated. But it was a really good set of bylaws. It was just a lot. But for the site visit, I mean, what they basically do is they provide legal services to low and moderate income folks. They do a lot of housing stuff, a lot of pre decree work. One of their big challenges is is staff turnover staff turnover.
And that's a challenge that they face too. They have offices throughout the
state. Of course they're their office is in Lewisville, which we did talk about that being a challenge for Longmont. folks to get down to those But they did. And of course, this is before COVID they were trying to improve their ela consultation and now everything is tele consultation anyway. So I'm assuming by now they've gotten really good at it. But, you know, the, in the community we had they do serve people well. And they continue to work on how to better engage long month, many other they I think the majority of their clients are from Longmont. And they're just trying to figure out ways to better serve them. But they continue to, you know, because there is staff turnover and that is an issue that that does hinder them at times.
But I think overall, they're doing a good job.
All right, questions.
Thank you. Any questions for Oberto on them? No? Okay, thank you both for that. Okay, so before we leave first, let me check the agenda, other businesses there other business outside of the business I have anybody else have other business?
I wanted to kind of raise a question or an issue to see the sports interest and, you know, furthering a conversation about it. And so last year, we made budget recommendations to council that were rejected right. For an increase in funding that would bring us back to pre recession pre Human Services funding moving to housing funding, is that right?
First were not rejected.
Well, they weren't. Yeah.
So they we had a couple if I remember correctly, we presented a few different options. council did select the option of increasing the percentage of general fund that they would contribute to this activity over three years. I think it's right for years. Yeah. So I think what they
selected Graham was a two incrementally over a three year period to increase up to 3%. And that would be in 2022. That would, you know, then really shore up the money available for Human Services grants, and and Have you no money to address housing issues. So unless you were thinking of something else they did, they did move that forward. And we did see that in this year. That increase so went from 2.07 2.05 to 2.37%. Okay,
I guess I maybe would like to float the idea entertaining the idea of requesting a council dramatically increase that percentage and to get those funds from the police department. And I'm wondering if this board would be interested in talking about that or thinking about it or putting together a proposal to council to consider that.
Yeah, thank you for raising that Graham. So the ties in to the, the other business that I have, which is to recognize what's been happening across the nation. And so just from for me, from my perspective, you know, there was a veneer kind of stripped in just the naked hostility and violence that we saw. And that helped me much better understand the kinds of issues that we're having in this country and the extent of suffering that certain populations you know, the bite the black population, Latino ethnic minorities in general, are having with that and as well as low income for that matter, but so the I think there's a lot of momentum right now and it's needed and it's it's important that we don't go back to business as usual in two weeks or three weeks or two months, because the riots are behind mount riots, the police violence and the fresh memory that is behind us. What I'm not clear on and I think this board has a particular role to play, Graham, to your point, because we are about providing Human Services and that ties with many of our agencies directly into these kinds of issues and sorry that Madeline's not here because I do want to recognize that she has been Kind of a lone wolf, trying very hard to get diversification on boards of different agencies that we work with. And there's probably a number of efforts that we can and should take. I really don't know what those are. So I think to your question, Graham and some of the thoughts of how do we as an agency, participate in solutions related to the issues that are that are laid bare in front of us? Is there a process we can undertake to you know, not study the issue, it's not about passing and kicking it down the road, but how do we start thinking about how this affects our work, and whether it's from funding whether it is an element of working with our our agency See what they do and the kinds of ways that that they do what they do? I don't have any answers. And I think that this is not the time for, for someone like me to lead, I think that there's a an opportunity here to let the support and facilitate the discussion with the people who have been directly affected by this. So I wanted to put it out there. I want to put the question out there about how do we as a board engage with this specific issue of racism? And what can we do and what's appropriate for us to do?
And like I said, I have no answers to any of those. But I have a real desire that we should act on them.
Come so Jake, are you raising your hand or so? So Jake, Caitlin, and then Paulie?
famous chair, um, speak to Graham's
question first, because I will confess that as probably, you know, progressive as I am, I had not thought about that question and the question of how this board can lead on this issue. But it's a good one, and it's one that I do think we need to consider. And, you know, when we think about our role in the community as a board, our role is to support the agencies that are on the ground, in many cases, supporting people of color supporting organizations that do the work that is needed
to support those communities.
And ultimately, it's our board. It's our job to advise counsel, or we're an advisory board. I think us leading on this issue makes sense to me. I don't I'm with I'm with the chair and that I don't necessarily know exactly what that looks like, but your your, your ideas and interesting one. But I'm certainly willing to entertain. And I don't know what that looks like, I don't know if it's a letter or if it's a this or that. And I, I also understand that from the city's perspective, that would be not, you know, I don't know what it would wait, how, you know, city manager staff or anyone would view it. But I also don't don't think that's necessarily the the worst thing is to challenge folks a little bit in the challenge Council and others to think about how nonprofits how social services, how those communities, and those agencies play a different role in a world where maybe we are a little less focused on the work that our police do and let me let me say that that Longmont does a just since we're recording on record. While my speech department is not the Minneapolis police department, we we do things that that work or that that agency is recognized widely as one that, you know, has the use of force continuum does a lot of the right things, but but it's a good question. And if we are going to ask for more dollars, and if we're going to, if we're going to be in this kind of world where we recognize the situations we're facing, I absolutely think this board is well within their right to say, look, we have a, we have an obligation to support these communities. And the only way that we can be sure to do that is with additional funding, and if you're going to cut it from somewhere Yeah. And and I'm with you, so I'm willing to have that conversation. Certainly. And I appreciate you raising it. Yeah.
Thank you, Jake. Caitlin.
Yeah, um, I wanted to start by saying thanks for bringing this up. And not leaving it as something that is that we're quiet about
A parent and of children of color in this community. And I am not a person of color. I'm not black mom, but my family is.
It's important to hear people acknowledge the pain that is facing so many people in our communities and across the nation. Um, I do think that one of the things that comes to mind for me is the you know, we aren't necessarily the folks deciding exactly where all of the city funds are going. We aren't responding directly to demands from activists around defunding the police, but we are in a position for to provide the scaffolding and to provide supports for the types of the time type of world that I think many of us want to see where there's a reduction in police violence, there's support for the most vulnerable in our communities. And that's along multiple axes, gender, race income. And I think that the community services that we, that we support through the funding are really vital to that to providing many of the sort of things that I think we have a vision of, you know, if you wouldn't if folks are envisioning a world with a reduction in police forces, and making sure that police aren't serving as social workers, that they aren't serving as mental health professionals that they aren't serving in these things, where they're not effective. The agencies that we support are the ones that are doing that on the ground work and listening to the community members that are most affected by that and the more that we can support them. those organizations, and the people that are doing that, I think the better. And I really think that, you know, thinking about how our organizations are serving different populations in our community is really a huge piece of that. Are they doing, you know, what are ways we can look at? Are they doing it equitably? What are their boards look like? We've already talked about this, and how can we use, you know, our recommendations and our application processes and all of those things to really further encourage building those support systems in our community that are really vital and necessary. So thank you for not leaving something unsaid about that, because I think it's really important.
Thank you, Caitlin. Let's go Polly. And then I think Jake wanted to add another comment. Paulie.
So last week, chief butler came to speak. And I would suggest that you listen to the last was not exciting. Listen to the last city council meeting. And this is a very strange time because you know he was going to be gone at the end of May. And now he's agreed to stay till the first of July, but we are going to be hiring a new chief of public safety.
The problems that this country has with racial and gender and
religious discrimination are from the beginning of this country 1619 and
they're not going to
go away. But this is an incredible opportunity for people, particularly white people to educate themselves because we learn nothing, nothing In school about the reality of the history of black people in this country, we learn nothing about Native American people in this country with almost nothing about Latino culture. We know nothing about religious discrimination. My relatives came here because they got tired of being hung for being there longer nomination. So but all that being said, we need to be clear about what are what is the question we're dealing with, that we want to deal with immediately. Do we want to deal with police
bad police's bad police's bad police departments? Or do we want to try to take on racism as a whole because that's a that means We need to change everything in this country. But llama is not going to be able to do that. But we can concentrate on being sure that the police are accountable that they have a protocol. And I'm going to ask chief butler to tell us what the policy is that the city has for for use of force. And for numerous other things. He talked about some of that last week. What our police department does, because so here's to Mike, to me what's happened since 1971, Richard Nixon got us out of actually the United States government building housing and turn it over to developers building it. This is the early part of public private partnerships, and we can see how well this is gone. Now. We have one of those developers running the country. Then under Ronald Reagan, he cut the education budget enormously. He cut the housing budget by 75%. he eliminated the funding of mental health centers which were supposed to be reduced in size and become neighborhoods, but he just eliminated them, period. So ever since then we've had an enormous amount of homelessness, and people who are mentally ill who are out on the streets. The police are the first people who usually run into them. And nobody, you can talk about giving the money to those mental health organizations. But as soon as there's a any kind of difficulty, it'll get taken away. It will. So the police because they're the first in line, our police have somebody when they know that something involves a mental health issue. They have a right along person who is a specialist in mental health because police have some training in that or our police too, but they're not. They don't have the expertise that's needed if you have to make a quick decision on what somebody who's having a mental health issue and that can be really dangerous for everybody so they have a ride along mental health person. They deal with the recovery cafe. They started the angel initiative to help people get off of drugs. They have numerous agreements with all kinds of organizations from referring people and sometimes taking people to the our center to hope to a golf a to various resources. So our police are not exactly the problem but I would like to hear from actual members of this community who don't have my experience. That's what I would love to have an open forum. We've done that with guns with homelessness. But this is not going to happen right now. And zoom meeting for the entire 95,000 of us isn't going to work very well either.
I'm like some ideas on what to do because we need to hear from people who don't have my experience of being an old white lady. But have different experience. You know what she felt when she father came to town. The changes that have happened in our police department are not they didn't just happen. They happen because he made them happen. That's why I'm worried that he's leaving. In the night early 80s. Two guys, two Latino men were shot on Main Street by the police. That's the kind of town we had. We don't have that. of town anymore. It's better. And but it's intentional. It's hard, hard work hiring the right people not hiring the wrong people training them. And I hope we can get somebody who's also very good. The chief of police right now is also, I think, quite good. But as I say, My experience is none. And I've had bad experience with the Oakland Police. With the Denver police. They're just Well, when I was there, they were just raised a scum, so my experience has not always been very good with place. Anyway.
Thank you, Councilmember Christiansen Jake. Did you still want to make a comment?
Just quickly, um,
we are in a we're in a budget crisis and I recognize that the city is and what I was would like to say The record is in this form of conversation, I would have a hard time just as a citizen of the community. If I saw that as a part of Council's budget process, you know, Human Services, especially if that increase were not happened for Human Services funding or human services funding generally would be cut, and the lpd budget wasn't cut. I think that would be a problem. I think that would be a problem. And I think fundamentally, what we're talking about is a value proposition for the community of what kind of a community we want to be. We want to be a community that works on profits, we want to be a community that does that work. We want to be unity that doesn't respond at this moment. So I appreciate that. I'm one thing for this board specifically, just as I'm listing. And I've mentioned this before, but I think I'm going to say very explicitly, and I think this is pretty this is more or less direction as we talk about the application process for Human Services funding. I think diversity in a specific diversity question needs to be a part of the application process. And it needs to be very explicit and it needs to be something that We as community representatives score, which is something that I struggled with last year in the application process, I, quite frankly, would factor it into my thinking in a couple of places. But there was never a point where I could say this is how the organization not just in terms of their internal structure, and their board of directors, but in terms of how are they supporting people of color, how are they supporting outreach communities, those kinds of things, that that's something that I think this board needs to very clearly address and speak to. And then finally, and this is to Graham's point that I will be quiet. Um, we need to be clear, I think something about what Graham is talking about would be largely as far as I know, I've never heard of a board doing anything like that. unprecedented in the history of boards, but I'd like us to look at it. I'd like us to look at it one at a time when you know, when we haven't been doing it for nine for you know, two hours and had other things and so I don't know if we need a formal motion or staff can just do it. I I'd like us to bring up a discussion about some kind of formal action on this topic at our next meeting. And I don't know if I need a motion or not, or staff can just say, hey, we'll just add an agenda item to the next to the next meeting regarding some kind of a formal action, whether it's a letter or speaking to grants when we can discuss it and, and, you know, have anybody in the city attorney's office or city manager, whomever to flag this for? I think having this discussion is something I'd like to do at the next meeting. So
I think that would be helpful, if I if I can, Brian, is that I think we'll put something on the agenda. But maybe the question for clarification is, you know, what is that so is it so Graham had a specific suggestion, which was shifting funds, or is it the broader question about how what kind of action does this you know, this particular board want to Want to take? That could be a variety of things. So is it? Is it more specific to Graham's suggestion about a funding shift? Or is it more general about what are all the different specific actions that this advisory board might want to take to make make a difference? Hey,
thank you, Mr. Chair, I'd like to take some time out to do both, if possible, but to specifically focus on Graham's piece and have a couldn't have a conversation about that as a board when we're not necessarily feeling, you know, pinch from time or what have you. So I think it's, it's that specific question of is that of, I think it's the broad framework of what can this board do? And then, you know, subheading a, is this a solution? That makes sense. We want to do this, and if so, what does that look like and how do we make that request of counsel? And and, you know, and that gives you a staff time to, you know, flag it for anybody who needs I'd hate the board's talking about this as well. So cool. That that. So it's it's the specific action in the broader framework. Mm hmm. Got it.
Okay. So I would just add,
you know, the idea of values is really important. And I think they I don't know that, for instance, this board has a set of values that we have put out there in our work, why we do the work. The idea of outcome is really important. So what outcomes are we wanting to achieve? And I think that's to Councilmember Christian syns point as well. And then what are our tools? What do we have, what authority what leverage what what can we do in order to achieve those outcomes and and meet those values? Right. So for me, I would be, I think, not ready certainly to take action on it. Graham on your proposal until I understood a little more of that larger framework. But I do also offer that you as a board member, are, it's within your right to make a motion. And if there's a second, then there's discussion and a vote. Right. So, and there are times that that happens, even if it's an optics component, and not necessarily a not because that exactly that exact thing is going to happen. So think about that. I just wanted to offer that to you that as a member of the board, you have the authority to actually drive this question to action. So that mechanism is there. And the only other thing I would add is I'm wondering, Karen, would it be okay if board members sent you or l Oberto, any thoughts on this prior to our Meeting So, as this topic is front and center with us that something there can just be kind of documentation of those thoughts so we can consider them at the meeting.
So, you bet and I think, you know, what would be helpful too is, is that as as staff and Nicole, if you're listening, you know, so it seems like it would make sense that we, you know, we certainly capture the notes from this meeting and have the draft set of minutes available that we can send those out to you also. So that can also prompt your further thoughts and discussion so so that we don't lose that we can certainly turn that around, you know, more quickly.
Okay, thank you, Jake.
I was just gonna ask Chiquita because I wanted to hear from the only person of color on the call. I'd like to hear from her.
Well, I raise my hand twice, and I know everybody was.
Okay. Yes, Mr. Chair, I know you was intentionally not seeing me.
No, I'm just playing.
I just want to say Truly, I appreciate everything that Graham has said tonight regarding the application process, bringing up about the police, everything, the funding and everything I really appreciate. I really appreciate that. And also, Mr. Chair, everything that I you know, we have this kindred spirit. So I knew he was going to bring something up today. And I just want to say I appreciate that. And also, Holly, when you said that racism is it has to it can't be eliminated by just one piece of a community. We all have to work towards it. And so everything else You You guys already mentioned that I wanted to actually ask is like, what can we do what kind of power this board has? Right? And so I never even thought about having power to to change it and Hey, is 2020 a lot of things, we are doing a lot of things we never thought that we will be doing walking around with masks on our face every day. Who would have thought that right? So there's things that we at least we can try and attempt. So I appreciate having that on the agenda. In the things that we decide on. I just want all of us to think about this, whatever we decide on will help us to get more people of color on the board on these different boards all across Boulder County. So you know, that's why I brought that up last last meeting. They made kind of an out of context, but there's a problem why we can't retain people of color here. There. There is a problem. And so why is there a problem in a lot of it is because of the racism issues, being stereotype prejudice in all the biases and microaggressions, and all of that. And I think once this community work towards that, and understanding what that looks like, and what that means, then we can move forward as a unit of a community. And then people would love to be on different boards and know that they can sit out and their voices are heard, and people will accept their different perspectives, right. And we don't have that. It's unfortunate that it's not across the board about the county. I mean, I'm grateful I'm on this board, and I'm grateful for all of you and and so I just want to say I just really wanted to say thank you, Graham tonight. You just really touched me. And then Mr. Chair, thank you. I already knew you were gonna take the lead and because we have that Kindred Spirit in. So I just appreciate you all. And I hope that we get to make a difference in 2020. And I hope that you know, Longmont will take the lead in, you know, make a difference to where people want to be on boards where people want to make a difference, because you don't want us to sit there and say the same thing. Well, my wife's not gonna, they're not gonna listen to me. And it happens. I'm telling you, I'm a witness, it happens. So I just wanted to say thank you.
Yeah, thank you. I appreciate your comments. And so let's close it. I think there for tonight it's a lot to chew on, but I'm really encouraged that there is so much engagement on the board in wanting to act wanting to be a vehicle for change. And I agree with Polly This is the time to do it. You know, I am It's always been the time to do it. But this is a time there's a lot of wind in the sails to make it happen.
So good damage.
Okay. If there is no other business then I will thank you all for your participation. And we will adjourn the meeting.
Good night, everybody.
Thank you. Thanks, everybody. We'll see you next time.