7:41PM Sep 28, 2019
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Guys, welcome to the chief life Podcast. I am Matthias Turner. And today I'm joined by Nick little how's the sport sleep coach, Nick, welcome.
It's great to be with you, man.
So I mean, obviously the name says a lot in itself, the sports they've coach. And you've got a lot of work that you've done. And you have started, we talked about a little bit before we started recording. And you've been in this realm for quite a long time now. And you're the author of a book called sleep. And you've been working with athletes, it kind of fell into that place where you started working with athletes. And now it's kind of broaden back out where you assigned to work with special forces. So in particular, the police at the moment, and we're kind of just talking about how I guess how time is passing and how the future is bringing all of its own little problems and bits and pieces with it. That is starting to affect desolate more and more and more. We have talked on the podcast before about sleep. But I mean, this is kind of going to be a bit of a different approach. But maybe if you just give us a little bit of a background, Nick about, I guess how you kind of moved into this space to start with.
Yeah, I sort of fell into the sleep industry, which was predominantly around the sleep industry around 1984. And right up until quite recently was very much focused on mattresses and beds, pillows and do those that was about it. So that was the industry I was in. I happen to get into a position of an international sales and marketing director with a large company. So traveled around lot, look into sleeping all sorts of different ways and how people slept around the world. The clinical side, though, I think collectively, it was always taken for granted, it was not a performance criteria. So unlike the other two health pillars, it's just been left alone and not investigated to the same degree. So I sort of found myself in a position around late 90s. I was based in UK in the Northwest. And I happen to do one or two little things that engage me with the local football teams, or UK football teams. And so I started a dialogue with a club called Manchester United, who were just down the road from my office no particular reason. I'm not interested in it fan. And my company that I work for not really interested in sport. They're asleep people. But it started some dialogue. And when we started back then it was although all the people within the club, were sleepers, like all humans are they were not part of my industry, the sleeping district. Yeah. So I just realized that taking it for granted, not a performance criteria. I didn't really know what was coming back then in 98. But I just got a phone. So I knew something was coming. As a sales and marketing strategist, you're always looking beyond yet to see what sort of trends. So I kind of put those things together and thought, well, I've heard about that credited. So maybe that could have an impact. I've heard about sleeping in cycles right now. And I've researched and found out that humans are not really designed to sleeping one block. At night, we're a part of facing human, you understand about the relationship between the relationship between our brains of all our bodily functions, and the sun going around our planet usually think, well, there's a lot in there. So I suppose it was just debunking some of the myths and misunderstandings of people have you just ask the questions, you sleep, okay. And they say yes. Because they don't know. They don't know what it is, yeah. How many hours you try and get every day? And they'll say anything between six and eight? They'll never say four or three or two? Because that raises a question about what are they doing? So I think it's just putting those things together. And, you know, I'm about to turn 60. Even back in the late 90s, there was loads of recovery opportunities for me nothing, nothing, you know, I was because you couldn't fill the gaps with anything other than people watching or looking at the sky or reading something or, or anything that came into your head could be downloaded onto paper. But it wouldn't go anywhere. Yeah, unless you did something with it. Right. So whilst all those recovery opportunities were not done for they were there, and I think where we are now is we've just been quite happily moving further and further away from the natural circadian rhythms. With our relationship with light and dark and diminish light, and temperature with we've made, we've rushed into this technological world, which is absolutely amazing. But what that has done is removed even more of these little recovery moments. So I think we're just in a place of going, you know, sleep has always been critical to us. But we've just got to collectively redefine our approach to it. Because you can't go put your tech down. Yeah, that's like shopping a Lego. It's got to sort of go well, this is where we are. This is what we know. And what we understand is, rather than hunting for the, for the tablet, so you can get your eight hours every day, just enough, just in one bio here. Yeah.
We got to sort of thrive on that way.
We wake up every day, as the day unfolds, how do we adapt? How do we manage? How do we control the impacts positive and negative, most importantly, is just not to have a much stronger relationship with what seems to be also taken for granted is that the sun rises every day and sets. And there's so much more research now showing us and will continue to sell us all is that there's probably a reason why we should be the fittest, most knowledge, healthiest population that's ever been on this planet. So why are we surrounded by Statistics and trends that say we're not? Yeah, so the possibly something that's had a shift, something shifted. And maybe everything that we're visualizing everything we're eating, everything we're doing is just not being processed in the manner that we think it is. So the short, long term things to these things, but yeah, that's that's just the other challenge is a natural, human process. So we just need to crack on and keep keeping it simple and get that educational, you know, system in place that helps everybody as soon as they come out of the world.
Yeah, I think something that is very prevalent right now is that humans are becoming more and more lazy, like convenience is such a thing. And companies like Uber are doing so well. Because that may convenience of getting a Lyft by a press of a button know getting food delivered to your house now, environment, a button and things like that a very exciting to a human because they then think well, I don't have to do anything like it's as easy as possible. It makes it as easy as it could be. And we're starting to step away from doing those basics like you're talking about before we dive too deep into that subject, though. Can we just touch over on some of some of the things that we've been saying already? So circadian rhythms. What are the circadian rhythms?
Well, from my perspective, it's it's a very simple process of sunrise and sunset. It's our relationship with light and dark and temperature ships. Yeah. And certain countries around the world adopted something called daylight savings time. It wasn't done for human performance. Some countries adopted it went away from it back to their normal time zone, but a lot of countries still have it. And that creates another dynamic with the sun up in sundown process when we hit the winter months, and the spring month. So principally, you want to be exposed to 12 hours of daylight. Yep, picking picking the day and then diminishing into the early evening. You want around four hours of diminished light, you need to know what diminish light is, yeah. And around eight hours 30% of the 24 in dark, you know. So dark is amber light red light yellow light stars. It's not the blue light spectrum, from the sun and various things because we developed electric light. So I think the really nice thing is to understand about the circadian rhythms is, you know, every day, sometimes it's cloudy. Sometimes. There's other factors in the summer, but principally there's there's hundreds of thousands of locks, which is the way you measure light outside. We're not exposed to it intensely like that, because there's trees and buildings, we wander around that heads go up in our heads go down. Yeah. So there's an average of around, you know, 10 20,000 looks if you spend all your time outside. Well, most people spend too much time inside. Yeah, I agree how we can all be outside. That's fine. But what we do and what we see now is that if you have a population of inside and outside, you've got to make sure that the balance of light we would have got exposed to outside all the time, is also replicated inside. So you've got circadian lighting in office buildings now, in training centers, where the lighting actually follows a natural process. Yeah. And all it really boils down to is that there's two hormones that make us work. There's lots of stuff. But basically, the serotonin, the one that suppresses our bodily functions and makes us rock Yep, is triggered by lights. And when it goes away, that's replaced with melatonin. And melatonin suppresses everything. So I think the way to look at circadian rhythms, it is literally about how you manage the production of serotonin and melatonin throughout your 24 hour process to keep that really nice balance of rhythm and harmony. And most of it is a relationship with your exposure to light.
Yeah, beautiful. That's a really good wrap up of it. And the other one that you did mention was Corona type. Can we talk about Corona types a little bit more?
Well, you know, I've heard about ours unlocked, you know, from grandparents. And you sort of I certainly started, you know, maybe one of the reasons why I could, you know, run through the ranks and become a sales and marketing director quite quickly. Because I'm a morning person. You know, I get up early, I'm ready to rock. You know, I was probably one of those people who can really start the day well. So I think if you're ever going to get a career shift in an am as world like, we all live in having having a prototype, which is a little genetic twist. Yeah. It's it's the relationship of how quickly I produce serotonin against the, the owl who doesn't produce it. So like a one or two hour phase delay in the morning. But but the nighttime Cronin has to operate in a morning krona types, well, that's been the case. So they will always struggle with the start of the day. We're not designed to allow people to be productive and functional, you know, at midnight, you know, in the past, so a piano would really struggle with the world that they're living in. So you can generally CIMKC career advancements because they are, you know, ready to get up early and get going. But that, that that's changing big time now, because I work with poker players and eSports is and people work multi schedules. We got Amazon workers with 24, seven now. Yeah, but that's the principle.
And that's really,
you know, you can do a test.
But the tests are basically just asking you the same questions you can ask yourself. Do you wake up in the morning? By your alarm? item? Do you feel starving when you wake up in the morning? Yeah, I do. Do you really like the morning? Yeah, absolutely. buzzing. How you feel in the afternoon? Well, I start to you know, now. So you took to a piano and they go, I'll always wakes me up. I don't want to get up. I'm still snooze button like man, cuz I've got to get to the office will get to a training session with Matty, because he says we're going to do it at clubs from pushing us. So I don't eat breakfast. I don't hydrate I sort of bladder Yes, but not bow. And I'm just pushing it like, man. But if only Matty was doing sessions at 12 o'clock at night. I'd love that. Because that's when I feel quite because I get that second wind. So you don't really have to look at it more than that. Most people will say that they don't know their credits are camouflaged by their occupations or lifestyles. But you just sit them down and have a conversation like this within seconds. Don't know, yeah,
they get it right away.
And if you're going to be,
you know, going back to elite sports, if you're looking for those games, then just maybe with a coach with an athlete's player, and you're just looking at this and saying, look, we've made subtle adjustments to the day, because you're trying to push this pm Kronos, it is nighttime Corona. So to do certain things in the first part of the day, now, that's fine. But we've got to do things to protect them. Right. And sometimes it would be nothing more than an early morning meeting at eight o'clock. And up goes the PowerPoint slides. And it says two plus two equals four. Now all I am is get it like that. I got it. Two plus two equals four. Got it? I'm up. The pm is still wandering around after the meeting, throughout the morning going, was it? Was it to minus two? No, no, it was definitely two plus two equals four, wasn't it? Yeah. But it could be two minus two equals minus. So we just we just send them a text. Yeah, right. You know, we send them a text after lunch to the pianos and just go two plus two equals four. Ah, that's what it was. So that's great. It's like, it's kind of like in all sorts of areas where you look at it from your point of view, as well as if you're training somebody, and you're not aware of their credit and swiping your credit. So then all your goals and objectives about trying to achieve things could go along much longer than you expected or not produce the results. You want it. So there's disappointment for everybody, because it's not revealing itself, you know? And particularly, you know, when you get into areas of what time do you do certain things, certainly, you would put together a program for me, that was quite high intensity mentally and physically throughout the morning period. But if you were seeing me in the afternoon, it might be a bit more psychology might be different types of have training programs, knowing that I'm more likely to tear a hamstring to try and get me doing things like that. That time.
Yeah, definitely. And I've definitely seen this in gyms and bits and pieces over the years where people train, maybe one day they'll try in the morning, the next day, they'll try in the afternoon or throughout the week, they have a variation in the schedule. And they'll typically come in, they either really crush the mornings, or really crush the afternoons. And obviously that is very typical to their Corona type. And however, the daylight hours can be a lot more, I guess, a lot more intuitive to how they should try and from there on out. And I think that is maybe something that depending on the level of the athlete is something that you should really look into. But when it comes to say, the professional athletes where they're training at a set time, every week, what do you do with those people where they might potentially try and better overnight time, but they're having to train in the mornings?
Well, that's, that's the giants. And you can say, well, we'll ignore it and just crack on. You say Hang on a minute. There are some real gains here, not only to reveal performance, but also to protect ourselves. Yeah. And maybe a quick example, I was in a CrossFit corrugated warehouse in Tennessee in Knoxville. Yeah, with a friend of mine. And there they are absolutely smashing it out. As you know, there's high intensity fluorescent lights above us into the place, very brightly lit. But then also the doors into the building. were open. Okay, so you could just step outside. So we took a little light meter downloaded onto my device. Yeah, was just used camera to measure the amount of lights around us. And we just took it around the gym and they thought, really bright. Yeah. And it was measuring oddly, two or 300. Lux, which is the way you measure life. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's women's. So in even as this high intensity indoor environment, even with the doors, which are big sliding doors open, allowing daylight in, we got an average of 50, locks down 100 locks up here. 300 locks up there. And I just walked them all towards these open doors. And as you got closer and closer to these open doors suddenly started registered, registering 2000 Lux 3000. Look, yeah, as soon as we stepped out, so it was 74,000 loves, right. So the reason why I mentioned that is it's a bit like, all throughout the day, getting this balance between serotonin production at the right time, is about just how much of that level of light and the blue light spectrum you're exposed to. Yeah. So if you're in the gym all day long, you're in melatonin land. Yeah. Right. So what I meant by this is, yes, you've got a particular thing to do, you know, your Chrome insight to the first thing you need to protect yourself is you need to use techniques like your exposure to the right way levels of light, so that you are producing the right levels of serotonin. So when you hit that moment, you are protected, rather than coming into it as a PM prototype with a turn you into what an ami would be like, at that particular point. Yeah, and then look at other things throughout the day. So we particularly use light and preparation prior to doing something which might impact us. So we don't just walk into it.
So this is where those tools like a light box, which you see the NBA using quite a lot. It's a box that you hold up to your eyes and just shines the light in to your eyes. I believe you close your eyes. Is that correct? to use those boxes?
Yeah, because it doesn't matter with your eyelids closed. You still get into the light receptors and into the pineal gland. Yep. And trigger that hormone shift. But you can you can also access this through the ear canals.
Yeah. So the human charges.
Yeah, you know about that? Yeah. So you sort of start off with having lamps in your bedroom lamps, in your office lamps in training grounds, then we start putting daylight lamps, bones in the workplace. And then technology allows you to go hang on a minute, that's all a bit intrusive, and we've had glasses with light things on them. If you don't wear glasses, you don't want to wear glasses. Yeah. You've had all sorts of things come along, but then suddenly, you can just pop something in your ear. Hit the button. 15 minutes. Like I said, when you're outside, you're not always exposed to the intensity of that low. So it's just a little hit, like recharging your phone. It's like a little hit of the road. Totally non intrusive. Yeah, I might be listening some tunes. So great with traveling, jet lag, East West Coast, America, all of that sort of stuff. And it's just a really natural thing. Yeah, you can sometimes, you know, outside is always the best policy.
Yeah, exactly. When I first got my human charger, I put up a picture. Yeah, yeah, I've got I've actually got to I got gifted one. So yeah, we've got two, which we actually take on our retreats and show to people and we get them to use it first thing in the morning, just so they can kind of wake up and trial it out. When I first got one, I put up a photo of it. And I had some people kind of nice eye on it. And realistically, a lot of the studies are done the old produced by the company, which is fine, because that's how things get get their studies done. But they'll just saying, Look, it's all produced by the company, which means it's going to be it's going to be biased towards the product. I'm like, Okay, oh, well and good. But I actually, I definitely notice a difference when I use the human charger compared to the days I don't use it from when I do use it, I noticed a difference whether that's placebo or not, I don't care because it works. So therefore it's like, hey, that's a great, that's a great device for me. And that point in time. When it comes to settle
for as well as
I, when I was introduced to it by the guy who invented it, they live and work in Finland. Now their relationship with life is far more significant than it is with men. Yeah. So you kind of look at it. Yes, you might have waxy years, you might have Harry is you might have a particular quirkiness. So maybe the light doesn't penetrate those receptors as much as you would like. But hang on a minute, I was going to get cancer in my ear from using a mobile phone back in the late 90s. Yeah, well, that doesn't happen. So I think when you actually look at the science of it, and like you, you've experienced it. And so top class, international teams, traveling through lots of time zones, have found these things extremely useful. And benchmarking against data and personal performance. Yep, it really does work. Yeah, like months things. If you if you adopt a diet and you want to get your five a day, but you've only did it every other day or sometimes on Thursday.
It's not gonna work. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. I think there is a protocol of using the human charger while you're using it, how you use it, when you use it will reveal itself to you. You don't just shove it in your ears and leave it.
Yeah, I actually used it when we went over to we went to Europe last year, and it over to England as well. And so we used it I used it was on all my flights. And it was great. And my wife, she didn't use it, but she had every intention of using it. So I plugged it in every time that said to us it. And for the next few days, I was great. When we first got there, my jet lag was next to none. And she was absolutely rolled. And so it really kind of made a big difference just to see it from the two different people's perspective. And she travels she's traveled more than me in the past and typically goes all right with jet lag. And so it was just interesting to see how how much of a difference it did make for that, that instance. But when we're using something like this, using like to, I guess produce their tone and how long does it take before your melatonin starts to kick in, say for instance, you're in a dark training hole. And you've you've worn the lights before you go into your you you've kind of pet your body. You've been out in the sun, whatever it might be in your serotonin is pumping, how long does it take before your melatonin starts to kick back in?
I think that's that's one of the questions we're on on with all sorts of different types of professionals. And
I think the general rule is it's a little bit like caffeine. Yep.
That caffeine is a natural performance enhancer to give that little bit of raising awareness, alertness and things like that. It sort of it sort of kicks in around 1520 minutes, you know, 1015 minutes, depending on the quantity and all that sort of stuff. Yeah. And I think first of all I've learned is the shift can happen quite quickly. But you all think, around that sort of period. And that's why the human charger has a 15 minutes tops. Yeah. Because it's likely to have stimulated the serotonin production. And then you want to let stop you don't want to overload was be here, I think around 1520 minutes. So even even somebody you know, who wants to nap with volume control recovery periods? Yeah, some bacon mind space, is you sort of think well, why would I put that in my ears and then put our alarm on for 30 minutes. And create a mind space moment a nap? and micro sleep moments is part of my cycles? Why would I do that? Because that's going to keep me awake. No, it won't. It'll bring you out of any sleep period isn't feeling better. So you do that with caffeine. Pilots do it. Things like that. Take a little bit of caffeine, you know, going to sleep late, and it brings you out of it. Yeah. And the same applies to that. So I say, you know, that's why I'm that human charger, the things you see it's around 10,000 Lux, and 1015 minutes hit. Because that it's going to be released after that period. It's not being released while you're in with the light. It's just putting it in and keeping it going.
So somebody gave us quite a lot for naps in particular is binary beats. Have you ever have you ever seen much of the studies around that? Because I know for me, I'll it's almost like following the the music as it goes through. It puts me into my sleep cycle. And then about to two minutes before I'm going to finish it wakes me up. And it works like pretty much like clockwork every single time. Have you seen much around the I guess the study of what the tones can do for your for your brainwaves, and how that can wake you up and put you back into sleep?
Yes, I've looked at it quite intensively.
And I think it's one of those tools that is about creating rhythm, pattern and harmony. This is what the circadian rhythms are about. Yeah, they're not about switch it on and switch it up. Yeah, it just keeps rolling all the time. So you've got to have a process that we do that kind of keeps you in this mindset of rhythm, pattern and harmony. So the binary beats, there's a number of other things where using certain advancements in technology, you can actually influence brainwave patterns. Yeah. Some people don't like doing that, for obvious reasons, because it changes what's going on in your brain. Yeah, I think what that is doing is just is giving you something just like a lot of things. It's giving you something that starts a process. It's like a pre sleep routine. It's like visualization. And I A long time ago, and it still used today, you know, pre binary beats. And it's not doing the same thing that but I'm you know, I'll say anyway, is the way with use the device to record sounds that were very personal to the individual. Yeah. So when you find a him, it starts the process of, I don't care. It's like sitting by the river sitting by the coast. It's, it's this Oh, yeah, life's not that bad type of thing. Meditation. Mindfulness is that. So? I actually would get athletes who've got children to record them reading bedtime stories to their kids on their device. Yep. So when they were far away from home, or when they ever want to take some spaces, we'll just go map. Timeout
about an intervention
that actually triggered certain ways to think about it, even to the point. You still up.
Yeah, I'm still here. Just I was just dropping in now, a little bit. So you just said that you get your athletes to record the story. And when they need that their time out? You get them to listen to it again. Is that where it was going?
Yeah. So you know, you can have whale noises and binary beach. And I'm also think so your point was about, but that's just moving things on to the next level. Yeah, of where we can try and find this rhythm and pattern and harmony and, but if you're doing good things throughout the day, then that will sort of kick in for you. And you obviously do. But for a lot of people just plugging binary beach, when you've just been, you know, doing what you normally do every day. Crazy, crazy, crazy, may not have the same effect. Yeah. But even to the point, if you take an athlete from the east coast, the West Coast, you take them from the European to the UK, so somebody from Spain, in a city like Barcelona, into a different country, then they may well have been brought up with sounds quite unique to their formative growth years. So at some point, we have even just, you know, record the sounds of the city of Barcelona, right outside the house where they were born or apartment. Wow. is when they're on the other side of the world, you know, other side of the country? You know, it's that sort of little thing that kind of goes, Yeah, you know. So in the early days, we were talking about all sorts of things. But you know, as things have moved along, things like Bono beach can be a great little intervention. As long as you've got an approach to how you recover every day, then those sort of things can add to it currently.
Yeah, yeah, definitely. So there's a few things I want to touch on that you were you were just kind of covering into then. So I think the first one I'd like to go into is caffeine. And when it comes to caffeine, a big piece is that this typically slow and fast metabolizes of caffeine, and fast metabolizes are the people who typically respond quite well to caffeine, where as a slow metabolize or someone who potentially does not respond that well to caffeine, and they might get their sleep affected by caffeine. So when it comes to working with athletes, what do you doing in the case of an athlete that might be a slow metabolize of caffeine?
God just leave it up to the nutritionist, the sports science guys to work.
Yeah, sometimes I've not learned but I sort of think, you know, I I'm okay, at what I do is trying to, you know, identify things from the point awake to the next point, we're going to get an opportunity to recover. I'm not actually interested in what's going on while you're asleep. Okay, because neither you or me are in control of that. It's your brain. Yeah, yeah. So we present ourselves to sleep and off we go. So a little bit like, like you say about caffeine, you feel come here, they're low metabolism.
works a lot with cycling.
In grand tours, British cycling, team, sky, and Kathleen's are sort of cultural thing, you know, have you little expressive? Yeah, I think all all I've ever come across really is because of its half life. You have six, seven hours dependent. And so you're basically starting as a sort of caffeine free system, when you wake up, is that just having a nice relationship with where caffeine is in your world to either no caffeine, or you use caffeine? See, you're not using it to just stimulate alertness, awareness concentration at certain points. So if you're sort of hundred milligrams of caffeine at the start of your day, three hours later, it's down to 50. Yeah, so top it up with another hundred, three hours later, you've gone down again. And so it's just having a nice balanced amount, when that's 100 milligrams, 200 milligrams, you know, 300 milligrams, depending on that metabolism thing. But just have a nice, consistent flow of it. Not excessive, it's just there. So sometimes this whole business of shutting it down by lunchtime and don't having Kathleen anymore. First of all, you need to understand that metabolism thing. Yeah. Because that one work. Yeah. But also, it's like anything, if you're 1000 milligrams by lunchtime, and then you stop. Six hours later, your brain and body are dying. Hey, this coming up a half drunk? Yeah, Where's it? Oh, so that's gonna make it difficult for you in the evening. And to be able to go to sleep. Yeah, so I'd much rather go 1500, then down to 50 up to 130. Get a little burst when I need it. You mentioned Chrono types before, little bit of caffeine. So put 100 on top of 50. Just before about to do this will just help even it's down to there. Just keep rolling along. So when I get to the you know, the last couple of cycles before I do any nocturnal sleeping or with an athlete, then if they're still at that sort of nice level, within you know, 290 minutes cycles. There you go, you've got your three hours. So it's dropped down to around 50. There's still a little bit there. Just to keep the brain happy. You roll into your binary or sleep state. Yep. And then it disappears, goes away. So it's a nice rolling process of balanced level as best you possibly can. Robin, the highs and the lows. So that's the way I would always look at it within individuals try to get them in that mindset.
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Yeah, definitely. And are you looking into getting them to I guess detox from caffeine at all? And a point? Is that something that you'd recommend because obviously they build up a somewhat tolerance to caffeine over a year?
I think there's always always a danger with any elite athlete. And it isn't it isn't like stop doing something they've been doing for so long time. Yeah. The impact?
Yes. Oh, my God.
But I think I think there's just a different generation now where we go, you know, let's go gluten free prepared and just see whether that nutritional shift might release certain things, but it's not going to hurt. We might look at caffeine free. Yeah, you certainly look at salts and sugars and things. Yeah. So I think we're all a little bit happier to go. If you go through a period where you're detoxing from something within your life, but it's, it's coming from a good experience place. Yeah, not just somebody. Yeah, yeah. All your mates told you. Yeah. is once you've got that nice data about that individually. So nothing's going to happen here. But we'd like to see how you progress. And it could also be about life. Yeah. Have you punched before? Yeah, you just go, let's just, let's just use this technique for a month, let's, let's expose ourselves to higher levels of light at this point, and then see what happens. I'm like you experiences like, okay, we're not going to detox them from light. Let's not be exposed to life. But I think these little things are really interesting. And that's why you keep redefining a little bit to say, Wow, maybe, you know, it's not about alcohol. It's not about this. It's about that. Maybe we can actually have a look at that and see what you'd be like. caffeine free. Yeah. Yeah, as you know, caffeine hides around in all sorts of places. So you do, you do need to know where it is, you know, you got a headache. Can you take some headache tablets slightly? You know, there's drinks, there's all sorts of stuff. And even in the caffeinated products sort of hybrid around in most places. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's I've seen people who've gone caffeine free. And they've been late find it. Most games. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Others struggle like math.
We typically find like there's about a week at least for, for the detox of it, where people really struggle. But typically, the energy levels are higher across the day for a whole space of a day. And that's because of adenosine levels just dropping in, like blocking crashing with the caffeine, obviously. When it comes to, to light, and you talked about, like, it's not like we would go and detox them from light. But are you using things like blue blockers as well, for your athletes?
Yes, yeah. But
also, you have to keep in mind about this meeting. That's right, to get to get to charge this macro. I think he's going back to that conversation about getting a better relations with under an overexposure, you know, yeah.
is that? Like, you know, I can get screen protectors on all of my devices that protect from blue lights, and then I've also got a nice relationship, you know, using my light meter and things like that.
Can I actually go, what's your light meter? What is that app?
Oh, right. Well, it's funny. So just, sometimes we get a little bit more scientific, but the one I use is called, looks like me to LUX. Yeah. Because it's free. Yeah.
Right. Let's put that little vial on it. Yeah. Yeah, it's unreal. And it's just, it's just using the camera.
It's not measuring the, the actual light. Yep. In that sense of whether this is the blue light spectrum, whatever. But it's just giving you that nice relationship. So what I tend to do is, is, and I was doing it with some under under nines and under 12. Last week, who work in professional sport, but it's the underlines on the 1200 15. Yeah. And all their moms and dads are going to shift your tech down blue lights bad for you and go to sleep. And I'm going well just get them a screen for executive, dole the light down, or even just get them, you know, another two millimeters that way? It's just dropped like mad, you know? Yeah. But it's more to do with being completely focused in a small space. Yeah. You know. So, again, a long answer to your question. I don't necessarily I want people taking recovery breaks, I want them having a good mind space moments. Yeah, I don't want them thinking that by putting these, you know, blue blockers on means I can continue to be focused on this very small space, overloaded with information. Yeah. And, and create solutions. So where we do use the blue blockers is where we're going to be overexposed to load. So when you shift in spring, or shift to another time zone, and suddenly you've got 16 hours worth of daylight, yeah. And you're inside, and it's outside, right into the evenings. And I like having loads of fun. And then maybe there's a point in time when you just have to protect yourself. Yeah, from any light exposure to to get into a place where you could actually even get into recovery state. So I think it's just this balance of how you use things you know, human charges like to keep it up there moving outside, moving around your home that all lamps Yeah, but then also you just go wow, I need a period of time. You know, maybe maybe Bono of you to wearing his orange shade for a long time. It's got an agenda soul belongs
exactly set the scene. So this, this might be part of the answer. But I mean, something that you keep talking about it that sleep routine, that thing that you're doing before you go into bed, those those triggers, that kind of sets you up and I was just thinking about, then something that I do do every night as well, blue blockers, I haven't put them on yet, but I do wear my blue blockers and I pretty much find that once I put them on within about half an hour to an hour, I'm pretty cool. Like I'm pretty much ready for bed. I don't know if that's because it's part of my everyday routine, that's like, Okay, it's time to start winding down. Or if it's because the blue blockers are doing their job and doing what they're meant to be doing.
But you have
you know, like a lot more people now you've got a, you've got a process that you look about your every day, you're not just coaching, you're not just a train, you're not just trying to keep fit, you're not just trying to eat well, and nutrition and things like that. But you've also got a really nice understanding about from the point of like, when you wake up in the morning, that's driven by what your day is like, your occupation, your lifestyle, whatever that is, yeah. So there's your point of wake. And what I do is, is chop that 24 hours up into 90 minute periods, because we like 90 minutes cycles, five of those cycles and give you 7.5 hours, which is you sort of 18 every day, but it gives you an opportunity to think of what you do every 90 minutes. So my focus is, is when you wake up in the morning. It doesn't matter whether you slept well, whether you got so much deep sleep, or you got this or you woke up six or seven times, that was just the outcome of yesterday or the day before. Yeah, or the period. Right? That was it right. So don't drag this around with you all day long. Get up light, there are mental challenges, get that light exposure, get that serotonin going and watch those little little breaks every 90 minutes, little distracted breaks, you know, to walk towards a window in your office, even though you're set two meters away from it. That's to me to shift could take you from 300 bucks to 50,000 work. Yeah, well, a couple of seconds, right. And so out the day, you think about that it's not falls asleep in by facing way. So that's that's the midday Now, try phases, which is midday and early evening. So you can bounce your prototype for me, I don't want to be going to bed at eight o'clock at night. Certainly when it's in the summer, we're in a 24 seven world. So as an am chronic. So I sleep four cycles at night, which is six hours and into my natural wait time. And then I will use an early evening naked mind space nap 30 minute period, so that I could really enjoy my evening and take the pressure off it and then try to by not putting so much pressure on my evening, I'm more likely to roll into a more balanced sleep onset. For my for cycle. So what you're doing, which is, which is great.
is you're actually starting a process of patent and harmony. What do you do first thing worry about how you slept last night? or crack on with some of the fundamental things about being a human. Yeah. And you're grabbing your little moments throughout the day. Yeah, yeah, it's all part of your recovery. So you can keep being the best you possibly can. Absolutely smashing it doing your things. You create that little early evening thing just to go, I need that. Yeah. Because I'm sleeping so long that night. But I need that little one there to protect my evil. And then when you go into wrong thinking, oh, there's only an hour to go before I gotta go to sleep again. You know, I've got to get up at six. Oh, God, I've got some emails to do. I've still got that to do. I still got that to do. And I don't know, right? Well, I'll just do some meditation. I'll take this supplement and listen to the sound or stop looking at the tech. Yeah. Not too late. You know, like, but what you're doing is saying when you get to a certain point, like two cycles, three hours odd two cycles fall into your plans. So mine's a 630. Week, which I wake all the time between either five to 610. Past 625 past six. I'm always switching the alarm off, is there for security because my brain is in control of my sleep. Not me. Yeah. So it's just there for security. And so my four cycles are between 1230 and 630. Yeah. So all you're doing is as you get to a certain point, you know that you need to be in diminished life, you've still got lights on and stuff around you and tech, you still want to be active. But what you're doing is putting something there that's blocking the blue light spectrum. Yeah, because all the other light, I don't have no effect on you. So it's highly likely that you start as the sun went down, you start to produce the melatonin shift, it grows, and it grows, the serotonin disappears. And now you find it more difficult to keep doing things. Yeah. So your brain just like put it asleep behind the wheel of a car on a motorway. Now we've got signs all over the UK, the shelter says about this. What a stupid place to go to sleep behind the wheel of a car. Oh, yeah, that just your brains in control? Not you. Yeah, so you're creating, not just in the final bit before you go to sleep, trying to go I need to do this nice. Otherwise I won't sleep, if you just created a nice balance, and that's why those things work. Yeah. And that could be you know, sometimes in that placebo world, you know, if we're doing things, you know, in a manner that helps us like superstitious stuff like this. And lastly, if you if you sort of using things that you believe in, and that confidence and things like that, then maybe some times it is doing exactly that. Sometimes maybe it isn't. But your mindset is that it's doing some Yeah,
That can help as well. I
was gonna say I actually, we went from using two different types. So I went for just like a cheapo pair to start with. And then we connected with a guy called Andy man here in Australia. And we've done a podcast with him as well as Episode 115 for listeners. And we dive deep into like the blue, blue, blue, blue sky blue light spectrum and blue blockers and his his blue blockers, they also blocked green line. And I actually noticed a monster difference from using the GB pair that I had to using his pair and whether that was because we talked about it. And once again, the whole placebos side of things, whether it was actually because of because of working a whole heap better, but I noticed a massive difference in my actual waking state. So when I would wake how much better my sleep was, like how much how much more refreshed I guess I felt how much like actually felt like I rested, which I thought was really cool. And that's we definitely do recommend the blue box because they are like we've seen a great them as a great product. And once again, that's something that we take on our retreats and we give them to people to wear overnight. Don't say hey, like trial is out, see how you go with it. If you think that makes a difference, and maybe it's something that's worthwhile looking into. Yeah, one last. One last thing I'd maybe like to touch on is breath because obviously breath is something that can control your state it can calm you down and you can get yourself back up. Is that something that also can control your serotonin or is it something that you guys use to control your serotonin for your athletes? Are you using breath and say something like a super ventilation like in aggressive inhale and aggressive exhale to get them ready? and pumping some serotonin or is that not a thing?
It is a thing.
breathing. I have a colleague called Patrick MacAllan loving man, we've got
the oxygen advantage. Yeah. And I think anybody whether you're in sports or not, it's it's a big read, but it's worthwhile to do it. Because suddenly there's you know, like a relationship is Acadian rhythms, we suddenly realized that our ability to inhale and exhale through our noses can have an enormous effect on oxygen levels and, and all sorts of things. We also know that breathing is a very common thing for a mindfulness thing and lots of stuff. So
the thing that
we we encourage big time, is to train ourselves to nosebleed. Yep. And we use a little used to be like breathe, right strips, you put on your nose pulls, it pulls a nose open,
yeah, now you've got things called a rhino mad to buying and mute, which is actually comes out of Victoria in Australia,
which is an internal nasal dilated, so it pops up into the nose. Yep.
And it really makes it so much easier. And it really encourages you to breathe in and out through your nose. So what we do is, is when you're doing everything you're you're you're cooking, running, exercising, cleaning the house, on a treadmill, driving to work riding to work, whatever it is, is you just pop it up in inside there. And what it really does is enable you to do that nice in out through the night. Because not only can be used, like you said to sort of create those little moments of calm or encouraging things like serotonin or whatever it's doing at that particular time. It is also a critical point of when you go into a sleep state,
curled up in your nice little fetal position.
Breathing in and out through the nose really does encourage a more balanced, less sleep disturbed state. So brainwave patterns tend to be developed in a more harmonious way. Because just like kids, you know, lying in bed, they just lying there breathe in and out through their nose, you can't even see that they're breathing, but mouth breathing, dehydrating smelting, things like that really does disturb the process. So for somebody like you with your approach of blue blockers, doing this here, doing their knowledge across inside circadian rhythms, light exposure using the human charger, you've got your binary beats, you know, and then you start using a breathing technique. You know, you're you're heading towards, you're heading towards the ideal.
Yeah, that's awesome. So I guess there's one last thing that I did something I came across today actually, the difference between back sleepers, side sleepers and stomach sleepers, and I've got a few little notes here that I'd love to share. So back sleep is they they fell asleep the fastest out of this study that was done taking only 20 minutes on average. But this leap was about five and a half hours per night getting the least amount of all three sleepers, which was pretty interesting to me, I thought they're most likely to be introverted if you're a basketball and most likely to be an early bird that have a predisposition towards enjoying the program, the TV program, Modern Family, and most likely to talk in their sleep sleepwalk and have vivid dreams and nightmares. So that's the back sleep is for the sleep the side sleep is they are the slowest to fall asleep about 24 minutes on average, but sleep the longest, almost six hours most likely to be outgoing most likely to stay up late. And preference of classic TV show of the classic TV show is a friends. Whereas your stomach sleepers is the the middle child of sleepers. They take typically 23 ish minutes to fall asleep. They sleep for about 5.7 hours a night, most likely to be both a night owl and an early bird. So they kind of a mix between both. And then most likely to be an NBA. Sorry, an NBA. Yeah, sorry. So the person who shows balance in introversion and extraversion so and their shows is more typically something could be something a bit supernatural and spooky. So something like hands made tail, The Walking Dead or Stranger Things. That's just some fun facts. So have you seen anything around around that side of things around the study of how we sleep?
You know, we could go on drag another hour out on this one. But yeah, I think they
try and keep this simple. I think the nature of the human being sleeping outside would be that we we follow that circadian rhythm processes dominating what we're doing. So that light dog serotonin ship when we're outside of the brain to sort of develop those deeper sleep stages is all about that harmony pattern and security and and what's going on, so we're exposed to the world. So literally, what you would do is you'd curl up in a fetal position. Okay, on the opposite side to your dominant side, because your heart is protected, your genitals are protected, but it frees your dominant side to protect you there. Well, okay, just sleeping outside. Okay. So if, if any sort of dangerous sense, then literally, you've got that, you know, the one you're going to hit me with, when you gonna kick me with that side is, if I'm on the other side, messy. Yeah, my left side, this is all about balance. It's to protect these I'm not there. So as much of a science to that, but sort of fetal position, nicely curled up, spine, net vertebrae align nice position. On the less sensitive side joints and muscles, the right side is free. So you're in that nice position. Okay. Now, if you're sleeping, because he can sleep anywhere, on anything, right, yeah, you know, all our business bedrooms and fancy mattresses. And if we're sleeping outside, we would probably sleep for a shorter period of time, because we're on the floor. It's hard and it's aggressive. So you'll move out of that fetal position quite quickly, and spread your weight out in a freefall position on your stomach. But anything that was under your head in the fetal position when you started, because you wouldn't do a free fall position out side. Because that, yeah, yeah. Then that thing that's under your head has to be got rid of if you shift your back, which also spreads the waiter? Yeah. Because the floor is aggressive. Yeah. Is your heart and genitals are exposed? Yeah, well, so the Brighton like that. So that's why they do fall asleep probably a little bit quicker. I mean, it's very marginal in this statistic to you. But they don't get the quality because they're on the back. And the thing that was under their head when they stopped.
Hey, Nick. It's Maddie. That's right, this is the easiest way to get you. So I figure if we just maybe just do a quick wrap up, I pretty much got the gist of that last conversation. And then it just cut out on me. So I don't know what happened there. But yeah, no, I think that's that's been really good. And super insightful. So thank you. So I'll I'll wrap the show. And we can do like a last little plug for you.
great. So guys, thank you very much for joining us on that. That has been super, super insightful. And Nick, I think there's so much in that and so much more that people can really discover through not only your website, but also your book. So what I like your website is sport sleep coach.com slash EN. But where else can people kind of follow along with you?
And Twitter and Instagram.
We're always posting lots of
free content around there. But it's basically, you know, always trying to help and advise what's going on in the world of sleep and getting tips away. We write a lot of blogs, which are always posting on the website. Yep. And there's always plenty of podcasts around, that you can find through, you know, all those capital channels, you know, iTunes, apple, and YouTube. And you get access to a lot of those things. And we've got you know, we're an international company, small company, but we're International. So we're coaching all over the world because of the technology we've got these days to do so. Yeah. And and we've got some very sort of guiding in the world of sleep, which personally is a big step, but don't really know what to do or whether they should you know, go go and see a personal trainer at the peasy but you know, when it comes down to things like this ago, you know how on earth today how. So we've got some nice little tool kit, things on the website where people can make that purchase that easy access stuff to get the ball rolling, with a very low cost investment just to get them going. So yeah, sports. com is the place to go really. And
we're always happy to take questions or inquiries from anybody. That's unreal. And I think something to point out is the kickstart three step plan, which is only five pounds. So that's like a good introduction for people with it. Kind of not sure where to start. I think that is a really, really good place. And that's a great offering like that is that is nothing pennies on the dollar.
Yeah, well, it's not. It's not done to on the value the plan, it's not done to make money out of it. It is just for a lot of people even in sport, you know, just know, we want them to maybe read the books, listen to the book, read other books, listen to other books, just make that little step and and, you know, even for son, they just need as much encouragement as possible. So when they listen to everything on your podcast and everything else, man, you still gotta do something about it. And yeah, they don't really understand what they can learn, and what an impact you can have on them. So once they've done something like that they really get inspired to crack on and try and live a life like new magic.
Yeah, no, that's unreal. Oh, thank you very much, Nick, that has been super insightful. I think sleep is just one of those topics where we can just keep diving deeper and deeper. And I'm sure over the years, we're going to find out so much more. But for right now we've we've got a specialist like yourself who can really dive in and help us out in particular with performance. And that doesn't come down to just sports performance. That's performance in life. And that's why I really urge people to find someone like yourself to be able to help them out. So thank you very much for joining us, Nick.
Great. Lots of fun, and let's keep in touch and look go speak to them at some point in future.
Yeah, thanks, man. Visit the Chief life.com for all of your nutrition coaching needs, your own personalized meal plan, as well as how you can get involved with one of our seven pillar retreats.