AI for *REAL* good – real-time innovation, real-time application
3:53PM Jul 23, 2020
Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening, and welcome to the AI for Good Global Summit always on all year long. We hope that you, your family, your friends, and your colleagues are all keeping healthy and safe. My name is Fred Werner from the ICU. And it's a privilege for me to introduce today's webinar. Now, be it you is the United Nations specialized agency for information and communications technologies. And we're also the organizers of the AI for Good Global Summit, alongside XPrize Foundation, in partnership with 36 UN sister agencies, ACM and co convened with Switzerland. And the goal of the AI Summit is to identify practical applications of AI to advance the Sustainable Development Goals as scalable solutions for global impact. And like much of the world that AI Summit has gone digital, and we're moving forward with weekly programming allowing us to reach more people than ever before. And today's webinar could be considered as part two of a global dialogue on eSports Which has been organized with ITU his newest member of the global eSports Federation. And in the first episode looked at how AI combined with eSports and ICT can help to build a more inclusive future. Today, we're going to do a deeper dive into the technology and see what the future holds for us. And before I introduce today's moderator, I'd like to introduce go over some housekeeping rules. So first of all, your microphone has been disabled, so please use the chat and q&a function if you wish to communicate. We're counting on your active participation to create a very interactive session, and it's her role and responsibility of a moderator to identify questions and ask them to the moderators. And speaking of being interactive. I have the first challenge for you. Can you please let us know where you're connecting from? Simply use the chat function, enable it chat to everyone and type in where you're coming from here? I'll go first. Geneva Switzerland. London, la Athens, Greece, Miami. New York, Madrid, India, Albania, Scotland, Poland, when Osiris Washington, Liverpool, okay, it's going too fast. I can't read it all. But this is really amazing. And it really is a global audience, which I think is fitting for this topic, which is such a global nature. So without further ado, I'd like to introduce today's moderator, who's no stranger to the world of gaming of Esports of technology, as she's one of the presenters of the very popular TV show BBC click, her name is Lj rich. And without further ado, I'd like to introduce the one and only amazing Lj welcome and the show is all yours.
Thank you so much, Fred, what an introduction and thank you, Fred and the ICU and welcome everybody to our second global session on eSports. Yes, my name is Lj rich TV presenter and music artist and I'll be your moderator for the next hour. It is my honor. This is part of the AI for Good Global Summit, which is virtual this year. And as Fred said, throughout this panel, you'll be able To interact, feel free to join the chat and ask questions. We love having them. And thank you so much for choosing to spend the next hour with us. Now we've got a formidable panel holding hands around the world today from Singapore, Toronto, Manchester and more. So good morning afternoon and evening to Chongjin, Chris cover holds Bryn Balcombe, Ursula Romero and Professor Andy Mia. Just quickly today's panel is roughly going to be divided into three segments. The first how AI and eSports fitting together, including tracing the technology, how did we get here, then we're gonna talk about the interplay between humans and AI. And then social good real time applications for good. So last time, we spoke about the need to get more people online including areas where connectivity is poor or slow, harnessing eSports to connect people across cultures and ways to invite people to explore eSports. Today, we're going to delve a little More into the tech that's making everything so compelling. And how AI and machine learning are game changers for spectators as well as players with a good bit of trend spotting built in and why not. So let's get going with segment one. Were talking simulations, mirror walls and all around immersive experiences. Let's have a little video taste of the future.
Real cars real drivers Drivers driving real cars. This sounds like a bit of a stretch, doesn't it? Unless you're Bryn Balcombe, who is ex Formula One now Roborace. Bring your up first, How is AI? blurring the lines between the real and the virtual and traditional and eSports?
No. And as you can see from that video game, entertainment is changing you there was clips in there from Ready Player One, showing VR type driving, you have black panther in there, which was right driving, what we do at Roborace is fully autonomous driving. And I think what's fascinating is underneath all of that is the GPU technology. So gaming technology, the thing that's been advancing the esports generation is now being used across all of those domains. Specifically, what we're focused on at Roborace is now bridging that gap between the real world and the virtual world. So how can we have true interaction so the esports gamer can race against the physical car, and the two things interact with each other. And I think that's one of the interesting extensions, we can now make, you know, eSports has its own genre, physical sports has its own genre. Over the next 10 years, those two things are going to come together. And that's what we're going to be talking about today. So it's great, right? Great way to start with fish.
Yeah. I mean, how do you sync those two things together? Tell us a little bit about what makes it difficult?
Well, I don't know if it is difficult is actually the same technology that's being used on the road. So we've created an autonomous motorsport competition, which is reflective of the technology development required for our roads. So vehicles are already able to communicate, they share positioning information, what we do is we say, Okay, we'll share that with a virtual digital twin of the physical world. And then, effectively, the physical car doesn't know whether the car in front is virtual or real, via the data it receives just says, okay, there's a car, there's a bus, I need to avoid it. So actually, I think what we're really trying what we're really seeing now is this convergence of entertainment and technology development and sports as well. So America It is great that the idea of providing a platform to discuss is
Yeah. And digital twins is something that's been used in Formula One for a while. It's basically where you run a simulation. That's so so very accurate that you can work out what possible errors are going to happen in the real world. I'd like to bring in Ursula, with your extensive knowledge across so many sectors. Can you tell us a little bit more about what the immersive experience is going to be not just the people playing but I guess the people watching?
I think whilst we get Ursula collected, connected, I can just remind everybody to please join in the chat and get your questions in. We're really happy to have them and I'll try and open up to questions after our first sort of little bit of a chat. I can see us live we're back on excellent work. So we're just asking really about spectators experience and how that's going to be evolving.
Well, hello, thank you for having me. First of all, I, I believe that it's something that needs to happen. And I also believe that the more immersive spectators can be part of this of the game of the sport of life, I think it's going to make a huge difference, especially for the younger generations, because they already are so immersive with their, with their, you know, the all the many devices that we have. I think the more we can push it, and the more that we can make the experience of MERS going to be more the better experience for everyone. And it could also, I can even say I would say make it make a, an improvement for our lives and maybe even the planet. Mm hmm.
Let's let's bring Andy in here. Actually, there are so many connections between AI and eSports. Where would we even begin?
Well, you know, I'd like to begin back in 1997 when Deep Blue the IBM machine beat Garry Kasparov. fame was a historic victory for the machine, but also a moment for humanity to reflect on what his contribution to the world is when faced with computers that can do many things better than us. And if we fast forward 20 years, we see the latest advance in this competition between humans and machines with Google's DeepMind alpha star beating some of the best Starcraft players in the world. I think what we're seeing here is how technology pushes us to think more carefully about what our contribution to the world can be, and work in partnership with machines to hopefully create this better world that Ursula describes. I think it's that competition and the recognition that game playing is a catalyst for innovation. That's really the most exciting aspect of this, the integration within of AI within sport, not just eSports. But computer games more generally. It's just been left since the beginning. Every game has been informed by technological developments in computing. And I think that's why it's such a wonderful relationship. Hmm.
Briefly, let's just take A little bit of technology in terms of how we got here. It's it's over 20 years since the famous bullet time scene in The Matrix was shot that had 120 cameras set to go off one after the other to record that sort of all around sort of thing that we take for granted in gaming. Now, that 360 view, and it was such an innovation at the time, and it now just seems quite archaic, doesn't it? And, Shawn, we were talking about this on our preparation call yesterday. So I'd like to bring you in here. And if you could tell us a little more about the latest tech being used right now. So volumetric capture, that sort of thing.
But the thing is that with regards to volumetric capture, it is actually currently being used already in a lot of movie creation and computer game creation. The interesting thing, however, is that we are only barely scratching the beginning of the potential of using volumetric capture. The exciting thing is that with regards to VM volumetric capture and the usage for AI Is that eventually, AI will reduce the resource requirements of development of virtual environments. To the extent that in the future, I do believe that everyone would be able to create their own virtual worlds and actually to invite others to participate in these virtual worlds. Because at the present moment virtual, this volumetric capture still requires very expensive cameras and systems in order to realize these virtual worlds and create the experience and at this point, experiencing this virtual world still very much in two dimension. In other words by watching it on a screen. However, what we do see for with the start of AR, augmented reality and also virtual reality related systems being created, when we do see is that there will be increased proliferation Have the set of environments in computer gaming and eventually, in real time, hopefully, of broadcasting of spots, so that people from the comfort of home would be able to actually enter the experience or enter these virtual worlds and enjoy an experience a new type of fun or new type of entertainment. Beyond that, I also do believe and I guess I am where this is stretching a little. But um, the last thing I would love to say is that I do believe that the replication of current worlds is where, where volumetric capture occurs. But where AI brings us to, is the recreation or rather the creation of new and more exciting and different worlds.
Yes, where you don't have to worry about the laws of nature and things. Those of you who might be interested in finding out more about what Like how video games are informing movie industry and making films and features, Disney's Mandalorian did a lot of filming on something they made called the volume, which uses the Unreal game engine and real time graphics rendering to make virtual worlds look real. And I remember watching the series and thinking, wow, there's great locations and finding out it was all virtual was absolutely mind blowing. There's a really interesting documentary online on the Disney Channel about that the moment and so you're no stranger to innovation in Olympics and eSports. What's really stood out for you over the last few years.
I was just thinking, as john was talking about the volume metric. One thing that I think has been a major innovation and that's a traditional broadcast, especially in the Olympics has been and I can't remember the name now, but we had for example in London 2012 We had a system that was set up for gymnastics so that we could have this 360 matrix sort of effect. And it was fantastic. And we also use it in Pyeongchang. It was used for the Olympics in Korea for figure skating, so that you could actually see the spectator could see the different angles and virtually go around 360. And that was one of the major innovations, I think, and we're now they're trying to still explore the whole vr 360 you know, to get the full experience, but I think we're still kind of, you know, working on it. But those were really the the points I would say in major broadcast, where you could really get the feeling of wow, you know, there's a matrix kind of a feeling there.
Yeah. And Chris with all of your Olympic experience, we did speak yesterday about some sports being simply better viewed from a distance.
Well, that might be a matter of opinion, but I Do you think you know a lot of what we're spending time talking about today is has the potential of changing the way we around the world enjoy sport and the way we engage with it, frankly, I've always thought it's a shame. You know, my time in Olympic sport was almost nine years and I was privileged in that time to, to attend for Olympic Games. And it's just such a fantastic experience in the storytelling and the, you know, the journey of the athlete is captured, of course, in that special moment on a live basis. But the types of technology that we're talking about today has the potential to create a virtual stadium where more can be engaged with sport, in those immersive ways of last year, I think it was March Madness. 2019, CBS actually delivered a completely immersive experience using VR technology where if you had a an Oculus technology in your home, you could actually attend the Final Four. You know, that that ability To recreate sport in the sport experience in a live context, that that notion of creating a virtual stadium for those around the world to be able to attend and enjoy an experience, I think is has incredible potential. And I personally think that the LA games will probably be the last expression of the modern Olympic Games, as we've all understood it to be, you know, growing up in our lifetime, I think you're going to see a move toward for a bunch of reasons connected to the business experience of Olympic sport, I think you're going to see a big leap forward after that, in the direction of creating virtual experiences around maybe some of the some of the sports that are more technical in their orientation, where, you know, perhaps those sports are better experienced and explained, frankly, through the benefit of technology. But more than that, you know, just creating the opportunity for millions more around the world to enjoy the Olympic experience live, I think Ursula has got her work cut out for in the next little while.
I was very lucky to be volunteering for the 2012 Olympics, but here in in London and I think one of the things with a virtual environment is it's very hard to kind of get that social angle sorted. I was also lucky enough to ride one of the first virtual reality rollercoasters on a real roller coaster. And I remember sitting in the seat and looking to my right, and realizing that there was nobody next to me. So I was essentially riding alone, even though there were 31 other people on on the on the machine at the same time. So I think certainly from an audience percept perspective, we've got some interesting problems to solve there. And let's move on to our second section. I'm aware of the time this is AI and human interplay. And I'd like to just bring you back in. Andy, as you mentioned, Garry Kasparov and deep blue having a chess game. And you said that that Kasparov was really playing the sum of all human knowledge at chess when we spoke yesterday. That's it. Massive sentence. I just love to hear you elaborate on that a bit more?
Well, I think it's also a great question in the comments about from Magnus about the way in which spectators are increasingly involved within the playing field. And I think that's a nice segue into this this issue, which is how you increasingly immerse spectators into the experience of the sport. And that's, of course, what the media have done so well, and increasingly better from year to year. And I think what we're beginning to see now is the possibility that the gameplay of people in virtual worlds can affect decision making in the physical world of sports as well. So spectator experiences are transforming dramatically. And I think one of the reasons for that is if you really want to keep people's attention, get them playing a game, it's very hard to distract yourself from anything else, if you're playing the game. And that's where if we look at the trends within media production, we see that that's a really good way to hold people's attention. But it also I think, this is the most powerful aspect of it, is it democratizes the playing field, it allows people that perhaps have limited resources to access AI based insights into the performance, make sure they can optimize their capacities as players, but also make sure that more people are involved in feel part of that experience. And that is one of the most powerful things for me.
So, Shawn, how can we use AI to enhance that human experience? How can we push further?
I think that what AI can do is really really reducing the physical requirements for data and by being able to predict actions. So, what that what that does is in terms of input, for example, one of the things which gave new I mentioned earlier this year, which I completely agree with is that he said that we are actually the matrix is actually nearer than we expect that image to give of the matrix where they use hundred 20 cameras, we will be able to recreate that and interaction with the help of AI because what AI is does Simplify the physical hardware requirements. So for example, we give you a very specific example. Currently, you may need 12 sensors to be, for example, to record in a record and to do motion capture into a system to be with him for the computer to recognize the necessary inputs. But with AI, you may eventually even be able to do it with five senses or even by your camp by a physical camera to be able to can look at what the actions the presence is looking at is committing, and being able to translate that into data. And that mazing thing means that eventually when we managed to get to that point, you can actually use a phone instead of using census in order to record your actions into the virtual environment and in does allow you to interact with the virtual environment with nothing more than phone. And that is actually an amazing thing because the implications of that for games for also the creation of new experiences in computer games is tremendous. Because what then and what we can expect to see is to see that the matrix is going to happen and also, this ultra environments interaction of disenfranchisement will happen much sooner than we expect if we are able to make use of AI correctly.
Thank you. Okay.
Lj I think john makes a great point. And you know, I, you mentioned my background in sport, and now I'm invested in involved in esport every day, and we really think of those types of technologies and that collision of technology with the gaming experiences being a pure accelerant to the industry that we're in. It's the ability the way we experience games today, the way people in exchange, engage around games. titles, I think stands to be entirely, entirely changed, you know, whether it's 5g on the mobile, or whether it's AI and the immersive experience and creating virtual virtual conditions such that the game player can sit inside the game experience, we should just assume that however we're experiencing game titles today, it's going to change and evolve. And for us, those of us that are invested in the esports industry, I think that that has the potential of serving to accelerate the fan experience, and accelerate the engagement around all of this. So Andy referenced that kind of democratization of technology serves to create, I think, entire industries, and in fact, to your point, I think will serve to create a live event experience, that that, you know, that actually brings these communities together, you know, in in post COVID times, we really believe in a big part of our business model is that there will be a live experience around eSports not just Just a virtual experience. But all of these technologies have the potential of accelerating that fan experience in a much different way.
Thank you. So would you like to chime in here?
I was just going to, but I completely agree with Chris. And with Tom. Because I think that one of the things that I'm looking forward to, is to be able to really like I said before, bring this big bear even closer and and do more countries you know, like right now traveling is impossible. But to even think that we will be able to go without having to get on the plane without having to wear a mask and to be in that experience and to experience different sports that we can have only dreamt of and that you were able to see on a screen. But now you're actually able to be part of it to go into the onto the field of play to I think it would just be phenomenal. And if we can bring that onto something so simple as a cell phone or an iPad or What have you i think that's that's the future because then anybody can access it.
Yes, a bit like how streaming is now something that anybody with a mobile phone and possible connection can do. Now when we've already mentioned the pandemic just now and there have been a few questions in one is saying about, does it create opportunities for virtual experiences of sports, and bring bring it to people who might not normally take part
in that come in on that? Lj, because I think there's, there's really a much broader issue that relates to the population at large, which I think is really crucial here. In the last couple of Olympic Games. One of the things that's been utilized is an AI based system to monitor the health of athletes during competition, monitor things like injuries, treatments, and so on. And I think one of the really big dividends that comes out of this AI innovation around eSports is pretty full scale health management systems that can be rolled out to wider populations. And so it's the the esports integration is a catalyst for a whole range of possible Like health solutions that are desperately needed in places where there's limited infrastructure and ways of addressing major health problems. So I think that what's exciting is that the energy and enthusiasm around eSports apart with the innovation, culture is just a big win for society much more widely. Yeah,
I think so. Um, bring I'm gonna bring you in here to tell us a little bit more about the interaction between humans and machines in autonomous driving.
I think going back to Andy's point about chess, and effectively AI beating someone at chess, Garry Kasparov, obviously, and I think in the next 10 years, we're going to see something like that in motorsport. I think we're going to see a physical embodiment of AI competing against a human in the physical world. And that adds a load more noise into the system, which is actually some of the noise that makes sports itself physical sports itself, so exciting. So that's the type of thing that we're looking for. It's all a question about interaction in the future. Your experience, I think, for sure participation is the thing that people want, and whether that's just control of your viewpoint. So you can fly along and follow, you know, we've had virtual drone the action that you want to follow, or whether that's actually interacting in the environment and placing objects there for the vehicles to avoid. But that sort of connection between the physical and virtual and the fan, if you like, getting them engaged and immersed. I think there's people have been saying that that's, that's really important. And I think some of some of the tech will just disappear, though. Again, by that, I mean, it will, you won't see the tech you just enjoy the experience. You know, and I think probably the concert that was done most recently, I think keeps flashing up on Andy's background. But you know, sort of virtual concept within fortnight is a fundamentally new experience that no one's ever had before. You could you can really get immersed in that but you're delivering a one to one experience, you know, that every person is viewed point within that that concert was individual, but the experience is shared. And I think that is really the sweet spot that we need to hit. It's sort of individual but shared.
And Britain how close is Roborace to beating a professional driver.
The software at the moment is about 3.6% slower than a human. It was 20%. When we started three years ago, we beaten one human. But in very specific conditions where robots can control the actuators on the car faster than the human can. We have totally locked a lock, for example. But in terms of perception, skills and decision making humans far exceed what the software can do. So no, we're nowhere near Lewis Hamilton at the moment,
because speech recognition, ai speech recognition is roughly at human parity with 95% error. So it's quite it's quite interesting to see that there are still You know, there's a still a little bit of human superiority going on, but not not very much by the sounds of it. So everybody, before we move on to our next segment, I just like to ask anybody and everybody on the panel, what kind of insights can AI generate? That's ultimately benefiting humans? He wants to go for that very small question.
Yeah, I think
is Andy's point earlier, I think that the discussion around human performance and the application of AI technology in the context of Esports is really interesting. You know, again, we're an organization that owns teams and we pay ritually for the talents of these young men and women who play professional eSports. And in to do that and to compete on a sustainable basis. We're starting already to explore technologies that can help manage these, these players as athletes, you know how we think about the manager how they manage their hydration, how they manage their sleep, how they manage their stress in gameplay, all of these things are things that we're starting to experiment with that we think will go a long way to sustaining, you know, perennial contender performance in the game titles that were invested in. So I think the AI technology, Andy, you and I should talk after I think there's a, there's a lot of advantage there to organizations that embrace technology early in that context. And you know, humans are the only form of sustainable competitive advantage your people, you know, that's where it starts. But to the extent that technology can enhance performance in that regard, that's a big leap forward for an industry that's really truly just nascent in a competitive context. I think organizations that embrace those types of opportunities using technology will be sustained and in different in their performance over time.
I've got a great quote, If I could just read it. It comes from one of the players that was involved in the alphastar Competition the Starcraft two competition human against the machine. And this was deep, deep minds machine and it was Daria winch. And he said, upon having been beaten by the computer, he said, the agent, the computer demonstrated strategies I hadn't thought of before, which means there may still be new ways of playing the game that we haven't fully explored. And that for me is wonderful, because it's not about computer versus machine. It's about how computer power can allow us to see the world differently. And that I think is one of the biggest wins from this relationship. Yeah, sure. Wow.
Yes. And I'm just going to run through a few questions faster. Whilst we have a little bit of time. Thank you all so much for your continued attention by the way audience and your questions are great. We have an interesting one here to think about ratings and advisories, including an intensity racing, if we're looking at the viewer experience becoming more and more immersive. For example, being able to swap between the back seats of a virtual and real car. Do we need to think about an intensity rating
love the idea
I needed for some zoom meetings, they often a bit too intense.
think one of the things that's really interesting, I have a quick discussion. So we've been we've been eSports. Obviously, sim racing, which is closely related to driving a physical card is one of the genres. But I've had a fascinating conversation the other day about it, does that become the grassroots for motorsport? Is that where we find the new and next generation of talent? And one of the issues we have is actually engaging them with minors effectively, you know, we've kids that start in go karts at five years old, but they can't access some of these eSports environments, these simulation environments. And so I think there's a lot of work to do around there, which is, is really looking at, okay, how do we create these safe environment, safe spaces for young kids to get involved much earlier, and I think that's something that the esports industry is gonna have to start looking at as we go forward. For sure.
Yeah, I think there is we've got actually something about
the, the level of immersive experience. And I guess being someone who was a big fan of deep experiences, there's always going to be the question about what's socially appropriate, and what age people would be comfortable introducing children to intense experiences. I guess it's a similar argument to how much screen time you would allow a highly active toddler. And I guess this is part of why we're doing this. If anyone has thoughts and ideas, this is the perfect forum to come and bring those ideas to us so that we can discuss them and and try and get something that that's really useful for everybody. I'm just looking through some of the other questions here we have a question. So how much can effectively can AI mimic biosystems? Is there an ultimate limit yet?
I don't think there's an ultimate limit but there is a limit at the moment. If they are very Really very brittle. So yeah, and that's one of the things that I think will change over time. But you know, in our world, just being able to predict the actions of another driver, just one other driver is incredibly challenging. having that ability to have like a theory of mind about your competitor, and engage in that type of gameplay interaction in a physical environment is still incredibly hard for an AI system.
I would argue that for humans as well, the game theory that surrounds when you are driving on the road is absolutely insanely complicated. And I've had an interest in autonomous driving for a long time. And I'm fascinated to follow as where it where it goes and talking about let's move on to segment three driving nice and quickly to all my goodness, it's been 35 minutes, you've all been incredibly intriguing so far. Thank you. Let's go on to real time applications and social good. And please keep your questions coming in the chat. I'm sure there'll be time to answer a few more, just a few more. So let's Get to a nice big question to start showing what is currently in the way of us achieving more social good in this area.
Who wants to go for that?
I mean, I think so if I if I could jump in with that, I think there's still quite a lot of work to be done to explain the benefits of Esports to wider population. I think it's only been in the last few years that we've seen kind of role models that are out there showing how to be competitive in eSports involves having a really holistic approach to health and well being. And I think the same is true in a slightly different way for computer programming and AI. We have this idea that perhaps it's not creative, or it's just people sitting in rooms kind of drilling down into computer programming, but it's such a creative skill set. And I think what's wonderful about even things like that fortnight concert is that through this entity through the concept being present within the game, you don't just have a wonderful sort of experience for spectators. You have a whole community of collaborators that come together to produce that you have animators, musicians, artists, engineers, you have graphic designers and it's it's so much of a collaborative space. I think getting that across is so important. Because if we want to build communities if we want to build solidarity and solutions is that community aspect that is central? And what better way to do that and to play games around that sort of experience? Yeah,
gaming is a very powerful, powerful way to connect people, even the sort of casual gaming that we call social media. So we did talk in our last panel about how connectivity is massively varied across continents. And in fact, some of the questions that I've seen coming in also reflect this. So we've kind of talked about that a little bit. What other challenges do you think we need to look at solving? And let's go for really big issues here, and those of you attending Also, please let us know anything you're interested in solving in the chat. So What challenges do you think are gonna be the hardest ones to get over next?
Well, I would venture to say actually one of the tenants Things which we'll need to take a look at is actually the ethical issues around AI. Because AI is a wonderful and powerful tool, by the same time it can also be used for relativistic purposes. So, we do need to, we do need to safeguard against the worst of it, while at the same time encouraged the best of it, because while at the same time you can use AI to create and construct new experiences. The danger is that AI can also be used to construct or create negative experiences for the purpose of hurting and unwell other things. So, I mean, that is always a twitch sought, which is part of the reason why eSports or computer gaming has always have a mixed reputation. Because Well, the games itself or the sports itself are extremely exciting. The perception in the general public is that some of the things which are happening So some of the relationships are created. And also, the way which people have been using things have been pretty harmful, because anonymous, anonymity is a very powerful drop. Because if you use so that you can just do everything you want, or be wicked or be cruel to other people. So these are things which we definitely need to take a look at and examine sooner rather than later so that we do not impede the progress of this golden future. We have fair of us.
Can I come in there? Because I think it's such an important issue. We're beginning a new project in Manchester, looking at how how we should think about the ethical governance of AI. Because Is it a top down approach was a bottom up approach, we're trying to see how we can have a citizen led sort of a methodology for engaging the public about their views on AI and developer, a framework from a moral framework for it around it. I think there's a really interesting platform out there, if you can google it is it comes out of MIT, and it's called the moral machine and it Say it comes out of autonomous vehicles context. So what should not put an autonomous vehicle do when it's driving down the road and faces a potential risk? Should it swerve and hit something else? Or should it stay on its course and crash into the other thing. And what's really interesting is if you step through their exercise, it's not just a problem of trying to imbue the machine with some sense of morality, but it's how our own programming of decision making in that context reveals biases that we have and the values that we have. So I think there is a major chunk of work to think not just about how we come up with some ethical framework, but actually who's involved within that process.
autonomous cars is interesting, because all of this starts, of course, with those of us that are meant to be providing leadership to the entire industry, right? If we as, as those of us that are engaged in it, those of us that are thinking about its development every day, I used to work for a great gentleman, a leader here in Toronto, he used to always talk about lead brands having a larger responsibility and and, you know, again, these cards We start first with humans, not the potential of the technology. And so we have to embrace kind of that moral and ethical conversation first, before we can understand what the limits should be around the technology in itself. And, and again, in the context of Esports. I think, you know, we need to think about, we need to think about balancing and this is something that the global eSports Federation, we're spending a lot of time starting to talk about, you know, what is the balance necessary and all of this, you know, we can be an advocate all at once for an industry, but at the same time, you know, especially those of us that have had history and attachment to sport and grassroots development in sport, Olympic sport, these things are all you know, that's a conversation about about the moral and ethical elements of sport and the good that sport can provide, juxtaposed against, you know, time spent applying yourself to technology into gaming, there's got to be a balance there. And that starts with the people that are involved in this industry and in this conversation, so You know, the technology can be as Chung points out all all at once empowering and needs to have its own identified limits. But that's up to us. And then the leaders in the industry need to need to call that out.
Because I'll be really interested to get his view on this. So one of the things that we've been looking at a motor sport is something we've called AI doping. So the ability for you to have like an AI system that gives the human driver some insights or some information about how they should be driving. A lot of those technologies are currently banned in Formula One, they were banned 20 years ago, 25 years ago and actually, because they assisted the human too much, and I think as the technology becomes miniaturized, and you can have this like wearable technology, it will now start to come into physical sports, and it'd be fascinating to see how that is kind of regulated if you like in the rules.
I was just going to say before, I think One of the things that there is certainly around AI and eSports and EA games is the taboo, just like there was 20 years ago with a cell phone, you know, and so I think, and like Chris was saying, we have to find a balance. But I also think that there's a lot of opportunity to engage more. And if we do it with a balance, then we can certainly find a healthy middle ground like everything, every time there's something new, we have to
we have to find a
middle and what you were saying brand, I think it's, um, you know, it's the same with with a site with cyclists, you know, when you watch the, to the phones, and they have their, their, their headphones, their coaches are telling them all the time what they should do or shouldn't and for a long time, there was a bit of a discussion, you know, how much how much should the teams be speaking to each other? What are they saying, you know, and in fact when when I cover cycling, a lot of the times, you know, when we go closer with the camera to the to the coach to the team car, they push you away because you don't, you know, they don't want the camera to get closer to because you might be hearing something. And all we were trying to get them to wear microphones in the car to be able to hear what they were talking about. And it was kind of a similar, you know, like what, how far can we take it that if we're in a competition, and they will get help from AI, you know, to to know where they're going to take the next step or to make the next move? Yep. Yes. super interesting.
Yeah, we could be looking at two tier sporting situations because a few years ago, babolat had a tennis racket that was used for coaching which would effectively analyze the exact point on the racket where a ball was being hit, so that players could repeatedly hit the same thing. And then at the end of the match, it would be able to give a full analysis of where the ball was hitting at what philosophy and it was banned from being used in live competitions because it counted as coaching. And I think that we're at this nexus point where we're going to divide perhaps into augmented sports and on augmented sports, perhaps Can we see a future where, where we've got this strange situation where the viewers would want to choose between just the humans on their own or AI doped human competition?
I think that's the same ethical question in society as well. Okay. So when you start to look at the haves and the have nots, the digital house and digital have nots, you know, it, it really becomes important is who has access to this technology? And what, you know, creating a bigger digital divide is not what we need at the moment internationally. And I think sport is a great medium in which to look at that, you know, gives you that lens to say, Is this fair or is this not fair? Is this something that we want to see come out in the in the public? Yeah. So that's, that's my viewpoint. I
think one interesting comparison here is with the pharmaceutical industry. And I think one of the concerns would be that if we have such advanced within AI, that those are the proprietors of the systems that have a sort of disproportionate capital gain as a result of their insight. Some people talk about the need for what's described as a windfall clause within AI companies whereby, if you come up with some solution, that is really, I mean, it's not so different from COVID. vaccination drug solutions, if you have something that is a a general win for humanity, then it needs to be available to everybody. And I think that's where, again, aligning eSports where there is a good way to advance that conversation, but to make sure that there is some sense of a common good, that's present but I also I also think that actually, we're looking at really the transformation of sports. If you look at racing formula II have done a lot with with fan integration within the competition. So you can have something called a fan boost where if the driver that receives the biggest cheers gets a performance boost Within the car, so I think those dynamics between the players in the in the spectators is changing and more likely we'll see completely different sports emerge.
I mean, I find it fascinating every time we do anything on eSports and AI. The applications outside of Esports is just far reaching. We have a question talking about the technology, helping in training surgeons, robotic remote surgery, laparoscopic laparoscopic surgery. So I think we can see here that any advances that were made in this area do seem to have these sort of tendrils reaching outwards, and even the same questions with AI outside of Esports. This idea of ethics, how good is our data going in? How can we get as unbiased data set as possible when we as humans are flawed inherently can we get AI to help us iron out our issues?
It is but that's where it comes down to the the kind of collaborative context in which this is happening. We bring people together to collaborate as you have many of the people that are involved with developing game design are also at the cutting edge of engineering and AI. So it is a community that I think is advanced by these sorts of competitions. It's almost like, in a way the elite sports the Olympics program has always been a place in which media technology has pushed the boundaries. We've seen it from everything from slow motion replay to underwater cameras, to 3d 3d filming, everything has some way of advancing through its integration within sports. And I think those payoffs are one of the big wins for for this relationship.
I can see you know, if you look at it, I was gonna say even if you look at the world record line in swimming, you know that that's kind of like augmented reality, but it gives you the context and it means you can engage directly in that information without having overlaid video on top, you know, graphics telling you that split times. It shows you within that video and I think we're still not there yet. But you know, creating a digital world, the digital twin means that you can start to do that augmented reality, as well as gift, this unique individual experience as well. So in the future, it will be going to 3d capture first, going back to what john said, it's kind of volumetric capture. That's what we'll be interested in how you present that will be different, you know, it will be different to who the different consumer is to the different devices, and to their own specific interests. But we need to move away from this point the camera and just just feel, because that isn't going to be what we're capturing in the future.
We've got time for a quick poll before I just quickly step in and say we do have a poll that I think we're going to run so please feel free to answer the poll as soon as it pops up. For those of you participating in I think it's the zoom call that allows for that. I don't know there might be the poll on other platforms because we are streaming it's quite a few. Sorry to interrupt continue on.
I was just gonna say. Just quickly last year, we covered an event.
Was there European games in Minsk and for the opening and closing ceremony they wanted to incorporate AI which was very interesting because working with the with the with the opening ceremony crew we had a few riffraff because obviously we had our art cameras and they wanted to incorporate with special sensors etc etc so the planning became a bit longer and from the creative team there was a bit of a push back and but in the end it worked. Some parts didn't work as well. But it was incredible because you know, you had you actually we made it work together and it became a much more impressive opening ceremony because you had all these a dragon coming out and it was all you know, birds flying, there's fine It was super cool, but you know, it does create more work. It is a bit is a bit more meticulous and you have to you know, work it together. So hopefully that will become easier as we as we go along.
That's a great observation from one of the questions saying potential for brain state characterization of players. So viewers can get a feeling for the cognitive load and flow states of gamers. So I'm presuming that by wearing I don't know how willing pro gamers would be to wear like a muse, brain reading headset or something similar that just measures brain activity. And it's, it's possible that you could use that to to train with I guess, as well. But does anyone have any thoughts on that player?
Okay, it's also something that will reduce the latency and communication. So the physical response time that goes from here, when you've made a decision down to your fingers, I think is about point, point 1.2 of a second, something like that. You can remove that completely. You can go directly from thought to action. And I think that is one of the things that's going to be really interesting over time as things develop.
I think that's huge for a couple of reasons. First of all, you know what, esport doing is it's a physical expression of a cognitive ability. And in fact, you know, statistically speaking, most of us are on the downside of that by the time we're 2425 years old. So, you know, that that has that is both an opportunity and a challenge for us. We You know, this is this is why we're focused on things like hydration sleep, you know, your physical well being as it relates to your ability to express yourself cognitively. That's a very real challenge in our industry. And if you're out, if you're an athlete, in you know, you're a peak of your peak of your skill set as a 22 or 23 year old, if you can look after those things and figure out how to extend your your ability to express that cognitive ability over a period of time, then you can be in a place where perhaps you can extend your career and in a growing industry make more money in the last three years than you did perhaps in the first five Only because you basically biohack your ability. So that's something that from a competitive standpoint, as an organization, we're actually focused on quite a bit to the, to the conversation around, you know, real time read of those biometrics, I think that's terribly interesting, if not for the fact that everything is inventory in the context of the commercialization of the sport. And so, you know, wouldn't all of this you know, for those of us that are European football fan, soccer fans? Wouldn't it be terribly interesting to know how the star players heartbeat is registering or, you know, all those things that we're starting to experiment with in live play, you know, what's the heart rate of a player the moment he's getting ready to take a penalty shot to win the game, like, all that stuff is very interesting and all of it is very sponsible. So again, I think you're gonna see a movement in this direction as that technology becomes available, integrated into broadcast in sport in any sport.
You could even wear a dress voice that would also vibrate at the same rate as the heart rate of the person taking the penalty. So you would then be brought in even further to the experience, although I suspect there probably be health implications to just letting anyone and everyone to do that. Just got time for one or two more questions. I'm going to complete a few together from our fantastic collection of questions. And thank you so much for all of your attention and time and engagement. We absolutely love knowing that you're so engaged in watching with us. We're talking a little bit about the rate that AI is moving in the world and coming in somebody's saying they're coming from the past the world still slow in catching up. So advice for countries from the developing world to catch up, and general kind of advice on leveling the playing field between platforms, and a little bit about mobile and console. So I guess this is a cover or question about how do we level the playing field between mobile and console and See, and slower and faster and more or less developed internet.
I mean, I think that is partly about how, in fact, the Olympic Games is not a bad model. If you look at the Olympic Games, you have nations, all over the world with very different economic means coming together. And there is solidarity that's born out of that relationship. And I would say if you are in a country, which has limited infrastructure, limited technology, then look at these platforms as ways of integrating with other communities, other economies. And there's some wonderful examples. There's a project that was called the hole in the wall by a professor in Newcastle, Sugata Mitra. And it involved him, essentially installing computers into villages that had no infrastructure at all and just leaving them there connected to the internet. And there was remarkable ways in which people children often found themselves just discovering learning how to use computers, learning how to figure out many things in their lives by just having access to the technology. So I think eSports and the enthusiasm that is brought to that by young people, especially in playing games, is a way of developing skills that can leapfrog some of these limitations and find really remarkable solutions.
One other thing to note here is that I think that eSports is a new is continuously evolving. What I mean by that is that if you look at the current games, it is still very much input base and also general input base by using keyboard and mouse and similar things. In the future, we can look forward to having input based on other methods, perhaps physical methods as well, which is actually a troll back to where sponsors that won't, and beyond that AI will become a part. Or rather, I believe the costs of using AI will drop so significantly to anyone who can access to it. This is not just a method To have the AI itself because AI itself is basically can be run on whatever systems, but also, more importantly, the new types of data transmission models, because for example, if you ever have something like 5g or things, so what it implies is that because of computing power drops significantly, because you no longer need a computer or PC in your house, you can actually run things off the cloud. And that means that you can literally be playing really complicated eSports or even this new AR VR related he spots on your phone. And also games will Converse will be able to be developed based on design requirements, because namely, this way, technically speaking a lot about the matrix is actually feasible today. Now, it's just that it's too freaking expensive to realize AI will reduce the costs and also not just AI but the new technologies. coming in now, reduce the costs. And therefore it's easy to say that all of a sudden things are closer than we expect. And it's important. They're not just for eSports. But for every form of entertainment, we need to examine and look at how do you develop in the context of AI and these other types of technologies coming into play.
Making sure it is cost effective for participation is key. Lj is the most expensive driving simulators in Formula 102 to 3 million pounds each. That's what the Formula One drivers training, you can go down the top end ones that you get a home around 20,000. So if you create a sport where you still have and that's cheaper than the motor sport, you know, that's cheaper than hiring a car and going to a racetrack so it makes it more accessible, ready, but not as accessible as it could be. And I really do think that the mobile phone adds to that democratization of sport, you know, Is that gateway in, where you can start to interact, and then level up as you go. But you definitely need that gateway in which is mobile?
Well, it's clear that all of us could probably chat about this for quite a lot longer. And the idea of a panel like this is really to open the dialogue and start the conversation and continue it and make sure that we are covering all of the things that that are going to be an issue such as, you know, how do we get some how do we make this suitable for children to joy? And how do we make it a safe, protective environment? How do we utilize AI with data that isn't biased? How do we navigate them moral mazes that we have set for ourselves if we're going to continue on this journey, so many questions and so many insightful thoughts from all of our panels. So let me please thank you all panelists, Ursula and E Tron. Chris, and Bryn thank you and thank you to the ICU and global eSports and our technical team for keeping everything running so smoothly. And of course, thank you to you The audience for your continuing attention in general. See, it's been a real pleasure to be part of this. And there are more of these to come. So for now, I'm going to hand back to Fred to wrap up and tell us about future events. Thank you all very much.
And thank you, Lj for excellent job moderating, and all the great questions. And I think you may have invented a new term called AI doping. I've never heard that before. But I think it might be really relevant, right? I mean, everyone's heard of sports doping. But AI did doping in terms of sports competition, and maybe role AI doping a little bit ourselves. I mean, if you look at all the AI powered apps on our phones, isn't that a way of doping as well. So, not to sound nothing to solve now, but maybe that might be a topic for a future webinar. And indeed, I'd like to also thank all the panelists for all the insights of course, the global eSports Federation for helping us to put this together. As I mentioned in the intro, this was part two of the global dialogue on eSports. And we'll be having Part Three On September 3, and that topic will be gaming and eSports in the context of developing countries. So I think despite many challenges, economic technical connectivity challenges, we've also seen massive interest in booming in gaming and eSports in these developing countries, in different shapes and forms, whether it's cloud gaming or mobile gaming, where you don't necessarily need expensive consoles and infrastructure. So I think there's a lot of interesting things to explore there, both in terms of how it's affecting society, participation, but also technology and connectivity. So if you have a pen and a pencil or paper, I would already write September 3 and Mark that in your calendars. And it's also of course on our website. Last but not least, tomorrow, we have another session as well. It's the AI for Good innovation factory, where we tried to connect startups and AI that are using AI and machine learning in unique ways to advance the SDGs. And then there was basically some live pitching sessions to towards mentors. So if you're interested in practical applications of AI being created by startups that exist today, that's the session for you. And with that, I would like to thank, of course, all our partners, our sponsors, and also the fact that it's co convened with our supporters, Switzerland. And I wish you a nice early weekend. I'm personally going on holiday tomorrow, but many of you who are maybe even connecting from your summer holiday, and we'll be in touch soon and hopefully you'll tune in tomorrow for the innovation factory. So with that, thank you and goodbye.