Ep.84 Let The Colours Speak (Jennifer - Colour Communicating App)
4:41AM Mar 20, 2020
Good day everyone you're listening to time for your hobby. And this is Episode 84. Let the color speak. I'm your host Alex and today have the honor to have Jennifer as my guest on the show. How you doing today? Hey, how are you? I'm good. I'm good. I'm really excited about this episode. It's something new, something I've never seen before. So I'm super excited.
Yeah, that's kind of what I was going for something a little innovative and something a little fun.
So you can say that this was meant to be that we were meant to talk to each other to share it with the world right out. We'll be following before we get into the topic of today, I'm sure people would like to know who is Jennifer,
so I like to use my full name because Jennifer is a shockingly common name. So Jennifer Everhart Smith, I'm a mom. And I wrote a self help book called donut some daily lions, which we will not go into now. But the reason I bring it up, is I decided to take my own advice, which is basically do what makes you happy, find your joy. And for me, my joy is these crazy little projects that I imagined. And so one day I thought, Hey, I wonder if I can create a language of color? for no reason. So I did, and it kind of went from a canvas project to an app to this kind of fun new way to communicate
was so cool. I really just want to jump into like this topic. I want to ask like all the questions at once, but, but before we do that, as well Do you have any social media links or websites or anything that you would like to share? I know you have the book, you don't want to dive into that. But you're more than welcome to share that book, his link where people can find it, or even anything and everything that you want to share.
So you can find the book on Amazon is called donuts and Danny Lyons, finding your joy and gross, and of course, quirky title, because I'm the kind of person that would make a language of color, so why not be a little quirky with it. So you can find me on Facebook, donuts and Danny Lyons. I also have a very simple website for the app, which is called paint to me. And I'd like to keep that up and running just so people can tell me what they think about it and ask questions like you're doing and just, you know, tell me what they think of this odd little project that have. So it's a nice way to kind of connect and see what fun projects other people are working on.
Oh, you know, I'm gonna ask all the questions. I'm gonna ask every single one of them but I saw I do Have your website or the Apple Store app open right now I don't have an Apple product. So I didn't have the chance to try it out. But it seems so interesting. And how did you actually get introduced to what this is like communicating with colors,
my background, I have a degree and literature and a minor in art history. So what this app does is it literally combines my two biggest interests. So I love words I love to read, it's definitely my passion. I'm also very into the art scene, anything traditional to new, I think that kind of expression is just beautiful. And I like to explore it myself. And so literally, it's just something that popped in my head one day, because that's where my interests lie. And I do get these odd sort of ideas and some of them work out some of them don't I could give you a list. I'm not going to So it just kind of became this experiment for me at first and I went to the local art store and I stood in front of a wall of paint. And I had a conversation with myself if I were to pick a color that represented each language per letter, right, so I'm using the traditional Latin based languages. And I thought, I don't want to just use substitution, because then that's just not quite as fun and a bit arbitrary. So I decided to make each choice based on Association. So for example, a is represented by red, because the first flashcard you're shown when you're a kid in kindergarten, is a is for Apple, and is that bright candy red apple. So people remember that and it makes sense to them. And I just went from there. So every letter has a color with a meaning behind it. So it's really easy to learn. The language because it makes sense to you.
That's pretty cool, because I'm looking at the website right now. And I see that you have the first five letters. So ABCDE B's for baby blue. C is for chocolate, chunky chocolate and chocolate chip. Brown is for dirty dust and D. So I like that idea. And so how long did you stand in front of this wall to figure all these things? Did you sit like did it come to you right away? Or did you have to stand for
nothing? Yeah, some of them are really obvious. So like a and b was really easy. Some of them I went for old school. So as you progress through the alphabet, you kind of lose options, because obviously something could work for more than one thing. But you know, there's more than 10 so it starts you kind of have to start eliminating options. So I got stuck a couple times. It was definitely not done at once. It took me a little while to go through the whole process. That, in particular, the bane of my existence was z. Because what? And it just I fought it for a really long time. And then I realized I'm fighting a losing battle. So what I did instead is I chose this kind of opal ask paint that reflects all colors. So if the light hits it the right way you see this rainbow. So since it's the last letter of the alphabet, it represents them all. And that was my get out of jail free card on this letter.
That's pretty cool. I zoomed it in. So I'm looking at it. And I kind of see I feel like, Man, it's so cool. I want to ask you what every letter means. I don't know if that's
no. So the problem I ran into was because I started out as a canvas with actual paint with an actual paintbrush. And when I realized language is inherently an interaction, it's a communication You need other people. So I thought, Okay, well, in today's modern world and app, that's that's a perfect way to communicate everybody texts on their phone. That's how we talk now. So I was like, Oh, well, that makes sense. We can text each other in color. It's really easy. It's what we already do. It's what we know. But the problem arose, translating paint, to digital color. And at first I attempted taking a picture of each color, hoping to kind of transpose that image. But apparently, that's not how computers work. And depending on the light and the size of the picture, and all this other complicated computer stuff that quite frankly, I don't understand, because I'm not a computer genius. It just didn't work. So the gentleman that I was working with, we basically tried to choose colors as close as possible. So some of them are more obviously representative of the paint than others. But a lot of it really it's just I wanted to invoke either a memory or a feeling So see the reason it's chocolate and like chunky chocolate chip, like imagine biting into like a hot chunky chocolate chip cookie. And that like color that's left on your finger. That's the color of C. And you will never forget that again. Like, now you know what that is. So you could just go down the line and some of them are a little more complicated. I got to cue and that was really difficult until I went old school and I fell back on my studies. And I went for a royal Deep Purple, because the queen is royalty and that used to be the color of royalty. So some of its a little more abstract, a little more intellectual. Some of it's a little more instinctual, some of it's a little more visceral. It just kind of came as the ideas did
is so cool. I've once again I keep saying this, but I'm just staring at these letters and the colors.
Yeah, and that's the thing is like, I got excited about it and that's why I wanted to do it because when You're excited. And you think if I could just explain this to people, they would get excited. But because no one is doing this, I kind of I hit that brick wall of you have to educate your audience. Because how do you explain it to people if you've never seen it done before? And so every time I talk to someone their responses just like yours, like, That's so cool. It's like me. Yes, because it is it's fun to talk about. That's why I did it. I thought it was fun. You know, why do something if you're not having fun? That's the whole point of hobbies, right? Have some fun with it. But I can't talk to everybody in the world about this. So I love this idea of a podcast because you and I can be excited talking about it and they can listen and they'll get excited and hopefully check it out. It was our master plan from all Yes, that's that's the plan that isn't a plan.
When you first started doing this, it must take you some time to write out a message and try to read through. But how long did it take you to be fluent in reading colors. So When you just see it, you can go Oh, that's what it means right away.
It was probably a little faster for me since I created the associations. So after, like literally doing each brushstroke, I did a large canvas with an example of each letter twice once in paint and once in the letter itself. And then I did a series of small canvases with some word examples. So it took me at some time. So once you've kind of repeated that process, it's fairly well ingrained. I did have some of my friends tested out, obviously, because they're your guinea pigs, your friends are and you know, it's pretty fast once you start doing it. Because what I did with the app is it's twofold. There's a custom keyboard. So you don't have to choose the colors yourself. You press A and red pops up on the screen, you don't have to do the work. So when you see that exchange in front of you, it kind of cements the choices, but on the other thought of that when you get a message. And you can then refer to the translation key, which is what you're looking at. So you see the color and the letter, and it tells you what it means. So you can translate your friends messages. So I'm not assuming everyone's going to like, memorize this immediately, like, just go back to the translation key for a few times until you kind of figure it out.
And so you mentioned you try this with your friends as the guinea pigs. Have you tried it with, let's say, senior citizens or even children and how they interact with the app?
That is a fantastic question. I have built in beta testers, because I have kids. Oh, there you go. Right. And my daughter is 12. So she is the literal perfect age because she's that in between kid creative mind, and I'm about to be a teenager or slash adults. And then they're on their phones just always, you know, just it lives in her hand. So I told her Like, hey, send this to a couple of your friends, make them put it on their phone. Tell me what y'all think. And, oddly enough, I took her and a couple of her friends out for ice cream one day, and we were sitting at the table and they were like, hey, look at this, hey, look at this and sending it back and forth. And I was like, haha, they liked it.
So they picked it up pretty quick.
Like I said, the translation page does make it easier. But also kids learn really fast. You know, they say that their propensity for learning language and music, Coding Math, all that is just substantially easier when you're younger, your your brain just works differently. So yeah, they picked it up pretty quickly.
And just to switch gears a little bit, cuz it makes me think of like Morse code, in a sense, play a role at all when creating this.
I was a big fan of those secret decoder rings when I was a kid. Did you guys have them? Yeah, yeah. Awesome. I actually bought One for me and one for my daughter. Couple years ago for Christmas, so we could, like, you know, send each other little messages. But I remember growing up watching these movies and the shows where they have the rings, and it was just the coolest thing ever that you can send these messages. So I definitely was influenced by old school communication built in like secret message ideas, for sure. The Morse code thing, honestly did not occur to me until you set it and it makes me want to like, reconfigure the size of the paint swap, which would be a whole other endeavor, but that would be cool. Like each paint swab is the color because you know, the dashes and the dots. So that would be pretty neat to see across the screen. Just as a fun experiment. I might have to try that.
And speaking of which, have you started thinking about because I don't see it from these pictures here. But let's say symbols like question mark explanation point. And how would you would you do other colors that we do? Would you do different shapes as in like shorter strokes?
Yeah. I like that. The idea of making the custom, but I also think falling back on traditionally held symbols kind of holds power. Just because you know, like the question mark is used in multiple languages, it's not just one. So there's kind of like this, this mass understanding of what that symbol means kind of like in math, right? Like everybody knows what that means. I do like the idea of building in other formats. My original idea had a different format built in, but I just, it was just too big of a project to tackle. But I thought, wouldn't it be fun? If you could paint like old school? Do you remember that paint program that was literally just called paint on your computer? Right? Yes, it's because it's really easy to use some of the newer ones like they could do this and this and I'm like, I don't know how to do this. And this, like, I just let me go to pay like I normally do that. But wouldn't it be cool if like, you could paint a picture that's spelled a word out. So I'm currently experimenting with that. So you would have like a paint function that you could click on through the app and send somebody a painting that had like coded messages inside. Oh, I think that'd be pretty. Yeah. And I just I can also imagine
like, it could also tell a story at the same time. Oh, this is
really get into it. Yeah. See, okay. I'm so glad you and I are talking.
I dork out and I get into it. I'm like, wouldn't that be amazing? And some people like whoa, you got to calm down.
Imagine kids, they're super creative. They can make an abstract are like a dinosaur but has a story behind it. Like, Mama is just going everywhere.
Yes, and by the way, my four year old son is all about dinosaurs. So I feel you on that. I know everything about dinosaurs. I could definitely tell you a story and paint about dinosaurs.
I want to be a paleontologist when I was a kid. So
it's so cool. And everybody's like, Oh, it's a dead professional. In the muck know, they're finding new species all the time. Like, we didn't know what a Utah Raptor was a few years ago and now we know it had feathers What?
paleontology is so cool, it's fun how you said it's a dead profession no pun intended.
See, there we go. Oh,
man. Oh so you know, for you How long did it take you to create this app from like the moment you thought of it to
what it is right now
it took me a while because I it's not my profession. I am not a computer person. Like I said, I'm definitely a humanities person. You know, I squeaked by on math and computer. And I tried first to do the programming myself because I'm an overly ambitious person. And it just, it's learning a new language in order to teach a new language it just it was too complex. And I finally gave up. So I used this. Basically it's the service where you pitch your idea, you set your budget. And people bid on your project is called freelancer. It's brilliant. If you ever have a project that's just too big for you, just all you do is post it. And then you get these recommendations. So the person I used was fantastic. He had all these five star reviews and he earned it. He was fantastic. So oddly enough, he was on the other side of the world and Europe. So he and I kind of communicated that these odd hours, but I had him help me where I got stuck. And it took significantly less time once he got involved. To do it myself. So it's just it's a matter of admitting where your strengths are and how much time you have to invest in learning. So if I had sat down with a computer with more time, I'm sure I could have learned how to do it. I know it's a really fun, creative and necessary thing to learn how to code but I did not Do that. So it did it took it took a little while. And then I kind of had to decide like what was important to me. So like you and I were talking about like, wouldn't it be cool if it did this wouldn't be cool if it did that. And he kind of was like, you got to step back like that would cost a lot more money and a lot more time. And since this is not my profession, like I don't have a lot of money and time to do this, I just thought it would be cool to do it. So we kind of decided on like, what do you really want it to do and stop there?
Well, this next question might be the worst question to follow up with but do you plan on releasing in the future, a version that is accessible for people who are colorblind?
So again, I love this question because it literally never occurred to me, had no thought, which is funny because one of my good friends is colorblind, and she likes to tell me what she sees, like with. She's an artist, so I guess I should have prepped with that she's an artist. So what she sees when she's painting is obviously different than what we see. Sometimes you'll ask us like what colors this? So it would be a fun experiment with someone who's colorblind. So I don't think I should ever tackle something like that independently. But I thought, wouldn't it be fun to ask her? Like, what do you see and choose the colors based on that? Because then it would be custom for their experience visually, which again would be another like wow, that'd be so cool. Like, let's see what happens.
And to my understanding is there's different severities of colorblindness. Some people see a lot less I could be wrong, but this is what
yeah, there's variances for sure. Yes, there's those new cool glasses that clear up all the colors, which I love watching those videos is just beautiful. But there's definitely variances on on the on the scale there. I don't know. Honestly, like, I want to apply for some sort of like grant and be like, Can I spend a year of my life doing this versions of this, like this would be so cool, you know, to think about, like how we perceive color, and language and how those two things visually match up, I think would be amazing. But I don't I don't know that it would really do much for anybody. But you know, people like me, you
know, one, I honestly see this being a very useful tool, let's say in school for children associated with other creative This is kind of like building Legos. Legos don't have a purpose. Like they don't help, like, do your everyday tasks. But it does help you be creative. It's just a block. But it's what you can do with the block that makes it amazing with these, this app here is letters and colors, but how you combine them together, it can help kids associate colors to letters and then create a language and they might even go off of that. And I'm not saying they're gonna steal your idea, but they could probably, like work with you later on and improve it and just the idea of creativity and I just love that.
Oh, yeah, there's a famous quote that everyone has claimed. It says basically good artists borrow great artists steal. And I love it, like, please steal my work, do something with it make it better. Yes, that's how we grow. Like every idea, you know, standing on the shoulders of giants, go take it run, make it even cooler. And I really do think introducing it into schools, I'm actually talking to somebody about getting into college classes, because kids have this brilliant way of looking at things. And I would love to introduce a new way to think about language and a new way to think about art and get them excited about it. You know, cuz not every kid is excited about language or art. And it would be great to take it into in particular Middle School where that shift kind of starts to happen, you know, you kind of have to grab them before it's not cool anymore.
I'm 28 and I find this awesome. I don't know if I'm,
yes. No, it is and that's the thing is like, I started it thinking, not like, oh, what am I going to do with it? But just like, wouldn't it Cool like that was it? That was the whole thought process like, wouldn't it be cool? And I'm, I'm starting to realize that if I can get over this educational hump, a lot of people could do some really cool things with it, like you said, just education wise or art wise, or, you know, communication wise, I think it could be a nice tool to open up a lot of doors. And I just, I just think it's so neat, because we all think about things differently. But when you're talking about communication, because it's a one to one interaction, you kind of meet in the middle, and that's where things get just lovely and beautiful. And I just, I think it could be really, I think it could be cool.
There's two things that just popped up in my mind right now. One is relevant to this. The other one is completely irrelevant, but I'm still gonna ask after this one. Have you ever done one of those challenges? Well, I guess not a challenge, but you see a word but there's missing letters in that word. We ain't brains still complete. It This is what
Yeah, this is what like your app reminds me of is like your mind is completing its associated in the color to a letter. So it's just like and it becomes instinct. That's which is pretty cool. And the other thing was, have you ever done that thing on the internet where, let's say the word is red, but it's in yellow?
Yeah, you have to pick like, is it? Yes. Okay. Yes. And that's, that's a perfect example. Because that's how our brains work. We recognize patterns, we recognize shapes, and how do we put those together? So they did this really interesting study with people who wear glasses. And if they're looking at, say, a billboard from far away, even though I can't read what that says, I know what shape an image is. Because I know that shape. I know that pattern. And I know what sort of words of that length have an M in the middle. So my ability to fill in the blank of what that word is, doesn't necessarily depend on me being able to see the word clearly. It's really anything. Seeing how our minds work. So have you seen those tests on the internet where they substitute numbers for letters or words? Yes, yes. And you can still read it. And it's insane, right? It's an insane language. It doesn't make any sense. But you know what that were supposed to be. And you know what that shape is supposed to be. And it's just, it's really cool. And that's exactly what I'm going for, is is an investigation of how we think about the way words are formed and how we think about art and how we associate colors with certain things. And that's why I wanted to use Word associations.
I know this goes off a little bit on the topic of words, and But well, I it goes off on the topic of words, but have you ever done that challenge where you stare at a dot long enough? And then you look at an image and the colors just fill in?
Yes, because it tricks your mind.
Yeah, man. The mind is so powerful and so interesting, and we know so little of it.
We know Next, I
really don't know what we're working
on. Some apps like yours, this new language, new form of communication that allows us to evaluate, and I'm sure scientists might even study this in a way and see how the brain decodes colors and letters in association. I'm not the expert here, you know a lot more about this than I do. But you're doing something great. That is not only fun, but can be super beneficial for multiple reasons.
I, you know, I'd love to see it, I really would. Because the, the more I got into it, and the more I started thinking about it, that's what I realized is there's so many applications for this. And there's so many interpretations for this kind of, I don't want to say technology because the technology has always been there. But to kind of test the way we conceive of things. I just I think it's it's just so interesting. And you know, the more we kind of push ourselves, the more we do realize what the brain can do. And the fact that you get to a point where you could literally read in color, like no need for anything else. No need for the translation page. You can literally read art is just insane to me. And I just, yeah, it'd be it would be cool to see to see what some actual professionals think of it because like I said, that's, you know, that's not me.
No, this might be a really stupid question. But I'm super curious for no reason. Well, I'm always curious. But do you, let's say when you're looking inside a room, and you just see a bunch of like colors mashed up, let's say it's like books or vinyl, like cases or a world map or anything and just like, oh, that's the letter A c, q. It's just like, you start seeing the letters themselves, associated that color. Sure,
especially when I was deep into it. So it doesn't happen as often now. But when I was deep into the project, it happened a lot. And it would get to the point where I would test my own associations, and kind of like, Oh, yeah, that's there for a reason because other people associate that color with that idea, you know what I'm saying? So especially in advertising, they use color for, you know, all the obvious reasons. And so you'd be like, yes, they chose that same color for the same reason to advertise that particular subject, right. And so it was almost like a confirmation of that's how we think what was really interesting is I have a couple of the smaller canvases in my room. And one of them is just a little phrase. And I was laying in bed looking at it on my bookshelf, and I got really upset with myself because I was like, why can't I read that? Like, I know this language, like, Why can I not read that? And I realized it was upside down when I my kids had flipped it like looking at it. And so I kind of tilted my head and I was like, ah, like, okay, God, and I was so reassured, because I was like, that doesn't make any sense. Like, I don't understand like, it was a matter of trying to translate why a double l would be somewhere it doesn't matter. But it was one of those moments where I realized I had so fully grayned the language and myself that I could even read it upside down now like once I realized it was upside down. So it definitely has to do with like what you just said, like all those little tricks on the internet, how we kind of how we kind of understand how our brain works.
No, you might not be able to do this or will do this. But have you ever thought of doing let's say, not necessarily emojis, but you know how sometimes the associate colors to emotion so I say red is anger? Yellow is envy. No, that's green, green is envy yellow is cowardness or something like that. Have you ever thought of that as well?
Yes. So another awesome question. That was gonna be so it was going to be a three part project. It was going to be the one I have now. And then you know, we talked about the paintings was going to be number three, and in between to help educationally make the jump from language to art was going to be symbols. So yes, what I was going to do was have the same thing associations, so Using, you know, the cliche heart, or, I mean, pick a cliche, right, pick any symbol that we recognize that's what that means. And it would be represented by that color. And then I would encourage people to draw using those symbols. So there was going to be this like multi layer symbol for the word love. So each Yeah, see? And then yes, yes, it would be cool. And so then you have the symbol that represents this word that has been turned into art. And so that would be my stepping stone to get to the actual painting app. And that was, it just ended up being one of those things where if I had a larger budget, and more time to sit down with I could totally just lose myself in this project, which would be great. If anybody wants to sponsor that grant. It would be great. But it's it took some scamming down To get to the point where I thought, let's just introduce the idea now. And then if I get enough interest, then I can kind of progress with the idea. You know what I mean? Because I do think it could be this multi layer experiment, which just would be so much fun.
So for people who are listening out there, if they want to help Jennifer with this project, by all means, don't be shy, she's very friendly, and I'm sure you would make something amazing that will help millions of people.
So I think it would be great and I'm definitely into any sort of collaboration. I think, you know, mines get more creative and the exchange you know, like you and I are kind of feeding off each other's energy and I have an idea that's a great idea how can we you know, make that idea even better and I think you know, especially when it comes to creative endeavors, the arts are dependent on you know, that energy flow between people so yes, if you want to use this for something messaged me, that's awesome. Yeah, let's let's talk about it.
You know what I can just picture myself like Having a wall where I just write a message in colors. I'm gonna do. I'm gonna have canvas. I'm gonna write time for your hobby, with your colors
to it and send me a picture. I would love that I will frame it on my wall. That is awesome. I'll have to try to find the right colors. And
you know, I have a list of the colors I use. Oh, perfect. I have a and I'll just send you which one each is so you don't have to search.
That's awesome. This one
Yeah. Oh, yes, I will send you that list. I will do it. Because it is it's like specific shaves a specific shade of teal specific shade of green, you know, like, what is Jade kind of thing. You know, like you said, green is envy. That's, that's why I used green. You know, you kind of you understand the associations already. And that's kind of how our minds work. We already kind of know those things.
I'm getting so excited for this. I haven't even started the project yet. I haven't I haven't been in months, my wife started doing it. So I'm like almost will give Try. I've been focusing on the podcast, but I would like to just give this a try. But anyways, it's not about my creative or crazy, crazy creativity and imagination running while it's about you and your hobby and your passion. So on a darker side, it might be hard to answer this question. But what are some misconceptions about people who create apps, Lissa, these kind of new languages are new apps that is not picked up by the population right now. But just the creation aspect.
What I found doing this is there's two types of people. One, you, right, I'm excited about the idea. Let's talk about it. You know, I love that it makes you want to sit down and paint next to your wife. That's awesome. That is a great response. You know what I'm saying? It's a really positive response. There are unfortunately other people that are like, why are you wasting your time on that, right? Like, those tend to be the people that are a little more what's called Word practical, not necessarily the word I meant, but I'm gonna say it nicely and say practical, so there's definitely been a few people That kind of said, Why? Because there's no use. Not everybody thinks that the act of creating is in and of itself worthwhile. And not everybody thinks that innovation is worth your time, if it doesn't lead to some, something worthwhile, ie money, right, which I would love. If this made me rich, that'd be great. Because I could spend a year and do five more of these, and we could all have a lot of fun. But that's the problem is that's what I would do with the money, right? Because I would not invest and you know, the new, whatever. But the point is, there definitely were some people in my life that were less than enthusiastic and were fine with telling me that and they were definitely some people that thought, couldn't that money and or time be spent towards something more practical, and that's kind of a hard thing for a creative person and I know a lot of other creative people that have Come to the same response because the project in and of itself is worthwhile, even if it doesn't go anywhere. Because like your show talks about hobbies, artistic endeavors, whatever it is, it brings you joy, you know, and that's actually what my book is about. But it doesn't really that's not my point. But I ramble a lot. Yeah, just it's just the thought process keeps going. But it's just to do it, right. Like what happened to doing something just to do it? Why did that become this negative thing in our culture? So I definitely do hear what you're saying there was there was not always the most positive response, but the people that understand what I'm doing, get super psyched about it. And I love that and I like hearing from people. One of my friends is like, I'm not ever going to text you in anything other than this now, like, be ready, spots not happening, which is great. Yeah, just do it. So it's been fun and I've really enjoyed hearing people's ideas like you said questions and suggestions. I love that. Yeah, like, I would never have thought of some of those things. So that would totally be cool. And I do hope one day I can make three or 410 iterations of this. And we can just all kind of experiment with it together.
How did the creating pay to me have an impact on your perspective on life?
It really, it really encouraged me to embrace who I am, I am a fairly quirky person. I like to do stuff that not everybody else understands. And I finally got to the point was like, that's cool. Like you don't have to get it you don't have to like it. And that doesn't affect how much I like it. You know, it gave me a handle on realizing that like, my favorite phrases don't rain on my parade, right? Like if it's not your parade, that's cool, but it's mine. So take your ring crowd like go and it really it's a great person. perspective. You know, I use this analogy once. I distinctly remember being in middle school, and I had a friend who hated chocolate. And it blew my baby girl minds like how do you hate chocolate who hate is chocolate? Like I don't understand. And that's kind of how I feel about things now. Like, not everybody's gonna like it and that's cool like your chocolate man. A lot of people like you, but some people are gonna hate you. And that's all right. Like, he likes chocolate. And that's, you know what I mean. But it doesn't make chocolate new, less tasty and doesn't make it any worse. Just because some people don't particularly care for it. And so that's kind of how I feel about creative endeavors is it's okay, like, if you don't, if you're not, I don't know, if everybody doesn't want to come to your prey. That's right. You know, it's it's still a really fun parade for you.
Exactly. You're never gonna satisfy everybody. I'm not saying just you personally, just as in general, I
would I'm certainly not Yes,
like this podcast.
I really gave up on that. And in my 30s, I just, I'm almost 40 I should I should preface that I'm in my last year, my 40s. And there's been a lot of life transitions and you just get to a place where you're like, I just don't care.
Like you do not.
Yeah, not like, I'm not gonna waste any more time worried about it. And it's okay. If you don't like my app. I think it's awesome. And I'm so glad there's people like you, that thing is awesome. Let's talk about it. And like, I have so much fun with it. And, you know, that's, that's more than good enough for me. It's already received more of a response than I ever thought it would. So I'm unhappy from here on out, you know,
all right, we're gonna end or not gonna end the podcast.
And we're done. That's all I want to hear. But no, I I really do love the app. And I hopefully there's a version that comes out for Android soon, right? No, maybe?
Yes. Honestly, as soon as I have made up the money that I invested into it, I will make an android version. Like I said, because it's not my job. I kind of had to shoot Budget the situation. And as soon as that negative becomes a positive again, I will then go on to the next one. So it's definitely coming just not quite yet.
Well, when it does come out, let me know. I'm definitely gonna get it. Oh,
yeah. Oh man, I'll send it to you. I will I will give you a code. I will
No, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, I want to pay the full price for because I do believe in I have to pay for the effort and I'm the type of person if you've done something to put a lot of effort and work into it. I want to support it.
Well, I appreciate the thought and I definitely do intend to make it more available. Like I said, if if this was my full time gig, I could afford to do that. But I do have other projects in the works but I definitely want to make it as accessible as possible for everybody.
You know, it'd be cool. You know how nowadays they have smart fridges where there's a tablet in the fridge, could you imagine it just had the colors they're just like a lovely note in the morning just in colors before you run off to school or to work. Be
nice. Good. Morning. Don't forget your lunch, Mike. Good morning to you too for it. Yes, that'd be nice
or can be like pick up the socks on the floor. Oh, that's
a hamper. Every everybody put it in the hamper. times a day. Put it in the hamper. Yeah. Tell her I feel her.
Yes. Speaking about that stress aspect has creating this app and this whole language ever stressed you out? And if so, what do you do to de stress? Do you keep working at it? Or do you walk away and do something else? Take a nap, relax with your family.
I'm a firm believer of walking away. There was definitely like z, right? Just kind of hate that letter for so long. Just hate that letter. And how do you hate a letter? That's, you know what I mean? Like there's something wrong with you. You're like, I hate the letter Z. What's wrong with you? But no, I definitely had to walk away. So there were times where I put it down. When I tried to learn how to code and it didn't work. I put it down for about a month. I just I was so frustrated. And I realized if I keep pushing, I'm going to hate this project and I Don't want to hate a passion project is just counterproductive. So I'm a big fan of taking a book outside, you know, just sit outside feel the breeze, read, relax. It's that's definitely a happy place. I used to have a hammock that I would lay in. I have since taken down because I do have young kids and hammocks and young children do not mix for a number of reasons. So when they get a little older, I'll get another one. It's just, you know, toddlers trying to flip over just No, thank you. They're almost at the point where I could trust them with one now. But no, I just I do think having a mode of relaxation, important like you said, you have your music and for me because I'm a huge nerd. I like to read a lot. So I would just sit down with a book and just kind of immerse myself in another world, somebody else's creation, you know, which is fabulous that all these different worlds are out there in the form of these books.
And I could just imagine if one book had just a bunch of Z's ended you just like, Oh,
I would throw it away. Like, how dare you? Yeah. It's really funny because you hear a lot of people talk about writer's block. And that's, you know, that's what it is you hit, you hit this this moment. We're just like, I cannot do it. So I definitely understand that.
And what was your biggest challenge when you first started your hobby,
the prospect of explaining it. So I actually had the canvases before I made the app. And I entered them in an art show, which it did not get accepted, obviously, because it's communication and you can't communicate through Canvas. It just hasn't work. But tried to explain this to them. Right. Like Imagine standing in the air. With these words written in color in front of you. You're like, No, listen, like, this is what it is. And you know, like, everyone's like what, you know what What are you doing? And so the app is a lot easier to explain because it's interactive, and you can touch it and the color comes up, and it makes sense and you can text your friends. But when I, when I originally started, the concept was so abstract that I definitely, I don't know, it confuses people. So that was that was a challenge. That was definitely a challenge. I got a little, I don't know, you know, when you see something so clearly, and you can't communicate, it's frustrating.
And what is your current challenge these days?
Exactly what we've been talking about, I want to keep going, you know what I mean? Like I want to do I want to do three or four other iterations I want to do let's do this on both. Let's do the painting. Let's, you know, I love the idea of doing different colorblind versions. I think that'd be cool just to experiment with and then imagine being a person who could see all color spectrums, but you learn the colorblind version, what that would be cool. So that's, that's my issue is I get so excited about a project and I don't have the money. means and the time at the moment to keep pursuing it you know, like everyone says what would you do if you won the lottery? Like I would do this it'd be so cool. You know I would donate to every children's charity in the world because of a bleeding heart and I think that's a whole other thing but I also would do this but i just i can't i don't have you know 2030 grand to sit into this right now but i would i would love to keep going I think it could be a really cool multifaceted project for sure.
I honestly cannot wait to see this grow. I'm so I'm once again looking at it on my screen. And I forgot to ask this question because it just popped up in my head but would be the best background color to paint all these colors on because I was trying to spell a time for your hobby. And the ice like, I'm really bad with color name, but I would say it's like an off white and a white background would not be appropriate what would be the best color because I see one kind of like a beige gray will won't would be the best.
So exactly what you said like a beige gray. And that was a conversation I had with the gentleman that helped me create this. As he said, I cannot do the classic white background because I do have a white one of the colors is why it's in. Because in most Latin languages, the word for No. Starts with an N. So no, no need, right? Like all of them. They're all ends. So if there's none, there's nothing there. It's white, right? Why don't right, so when I painted it on the canvas, because of the texture and the way light hits paint, you could tell something was there, but in the digital form that doesn't translate. So he said, I can't do a white background, which makes sense. Well, we can't do a full gray background because one of my colors is gray. We can't do a full beige background because one of D is dingy, dirty, dusty, right? It's like this kind of dingy Brown. So we kind of pay To the medium. So definitely a lighter version of some sort of a grayish, and then you can see everything. And in particular when you're talking about z, which I wish would translate better into the digital color, but that's you can't have an opal s in digital, it just doesn't, it doesn't work. I mean, if somebody knows how to do it, please tell me I don't know how to do it. Because I don't know that language. Anyway. So when you're talking about like, reflections and color and things kind of get lost in translation, but yes, definitely go with a little more of a muted background.
Okay, because no, I'm, I'm so excited to give this a try. And I'm definitely gonna ask my wife for help cuz she has a better eye for color than I do. So
sure, yeah. Take her to the paint store with you. She like she probably be like, Oh, yeah, this is the right tool. So
you're picking yellow, blue and red. Yeah.
Yeah, you're like no, not a blue man. It needs to be a baby blue and a teal are two different colors. You can just yeah, and then okay. So There's more blues to because of water. You know so the W and just oh yeah, you could just get lost in this.
Not gonna lie I honestly thought the I was why because of igloo.
Just right. So
that's great, though because the reflection off of ice. Yeah, that's Yes. See? sense in your mind. Thank you see, that's a great example. That's how our minds work. And it makes sense to you. And that like, particular shade of reflection off of ice and igloo. Yes, that's a perfect example. And I wish I would have thought of that. So the next iteration, I will take it from you and I will put it in the next app.
It goes well with that quote, you just said advice about stealing. steal it.
And speaking of a quote, I read the quote at the bottom of your description. Talk to me. No paint to me. I like that.
Yes. Because it's funny, you know, we call people we talk to people we text people. Have you ever painted to someone Matthew? No, let's do it was paid to each other.
It makes me think of like my random catchphrase where I said, so there you have it another body with a hobby. Yeah, it's good. I like that one. And then the last catchphrases. So Until the next episode make some time for your hobby. That's I'm not concluding episode right now. But I'm just saying that's my catchphrase.
And we're done. Yes.
No, I see now a lot. But do you have any word of advice for anybody who might be interested in whether this specific app like continue improving it or creating their own creative communication form?
I would say, first and foremost, recognize where your passion lies, and put the rest on someone else to keep your frustration down. So me getting help saved me so much time and energy and just wasted frustration. And I highly encourage people to ask for assistance. And I think in particular creatives are not used to that, because it's in their mind. Everything so personal that you get to a point where like, Oh, I'm, I'm involving someone else and my idea it's otherworldly. So definitely ask, but also just do it for the sake of doing it. You know what I mean? Like, we we get caught in this trap of what's the end result? You know, what's the purpose? What's the point? Sometimes the point is just to do it to see if you can see if it works. Why not? You know? I love the why not idea. That's
funny that you say that because when I started my when I did music, I used to do the instrumentals as well. And I always do you know, DJ calluses, DJ Khaled, we the bass and all that. Yeah. So instead, I started doing my own little catchphrase where they went, they say why? And we say why not?
Yeah. So yes, we forgot that attitude. Like when you watch little kids do something. You asked them why they did it. They just kind of shrug. Right? Well, that's it. Why not? Like why I have no reason for that? I literally watched I watched this little girl lick my car. Yeah, exactly. And I kind of looked and I was like Chrissy, why don't you lick and she literally just tried that me now with an A, like an adult I looking back at the situation I figured it out. I at the time had this like greenish car. And there was pollen. And so you could see the sheet of pollen on it. And I think she wanted to see what it tasted like, right? Because it came from flowers, whatever. But I love that her response was literally just a shrug. Like, I don't need to explain, like the car like that's totally
And that's a great way to go through life. Like why not
try to know that if it works out for you or it doesn't work out for you?
Yeah, just to see why not. Why not?
I love it. I know I know. We talked about this at the beginning of the episode. But we're gonna ask again, I say we but I'm gonna ask again. Do you have any links or websites that you would like to share so people can come support you?
Yeah, definitely paint to me is its own. I have a simple, very simple one page. website that's literally called paint to me just mean nobody else has it. I also have paint to me app at gmail, if you want to just shoot me some questions. If you want to contact me, Facebook, don't get some dandelions. I just I try to be really open about loving to experiment with a handful of things. So I'm out there in the literary world. I'm out there in the app world. I'm out there in the professional speaking world. I just I like to do a handful of things. So as you see I'm very passionate about what I speak about. I get really into it. So if you want to just like chat about projects, I'm into that too. I think we lost the salon of Daesil. Do you know if you think about the Renaissance people used to sit down the artists writers and poets and musicians, they'd have coffee on the terrorists and just exchange ideas and like, why don't we do that anymore? So if you want to just like shoot me an idea and chitchat about our life, like, That's awesome, let's do it
like we're doing right now.
Yes, it's great because, you know, we, we get each other amped up and we, you know, build each other's ideas up and I think, you know, we lost a lot of that creative kind of exchange. So yeah, hit me up online, do it.
Well, that's perfect. I'll put the link in the description below so people can come follow some support, subscribe and just help out because helping people will eventually help yourself and it's about the community is about growing. And Jennifer has been so helpful, so informative, and very energetic, very passionate, and I'm sure you guys were gonna make a great connection if you connect with her.
I appreciate that. I do think what you're doing is fabulous. You know, we all have our passion projects we all have our hobbies and embracing that is just so healthy, and my hobby is everybody else's hobby. Which is a good habit, I get to do it all by proxy. Exactly.
Now speaking about doing it all, the last question is related to doing it all. Do you have any questions for me about communicating with color? So I asked this question at the end of every episode, not about colors, but of just about that person's hobby.
So I would ask you, what do you think would be a fun use of the app, but you've actually had a lot of really good ideas. So my next one is, if you had the app, I will try to get it on Android as soon as possible.
What would be the first message you would send?
Oh, that's easy. I'll send it to my wife saying I love you. That's a
that's so sweet. Yes, that is a good one.
See, that's great though. And that's why I love communication because it's heartfelt and it's real. See? That's fabulous. That's a great answer.
I'm on the edge of my seat right now waiting for this up. No, nope. No pressure though. You don't. But you do have a guaranteed buyer once it does come out. That's for sure.
Yeah, I honestly, it's purely a matter of return on investment. And I will definitely make an Android app. I'm not trying to be a millionaire, the app is only $1 99. I'm obviously not charging you up. Or I'm literally just looking to finance my project, just because I think it's fun. So yeah, definitely, I'm going to do it as soon as humanly possible, as far as my checkbook is concerned. But I love the enthusiasm. And I will let you know as soon as as soon as it's done, I will send you a message.
I love it. I love it. I love the growth. I love the passion. And so there you have it, another body with a hobby. Thank you so much for coming on. And just sharing this with me. It's just made me excited for the painting aspect and sharing it with my wife. I'm sure she's gonna appreciate it so much. And I'm definitely gonna share this with a bunch of people. So I know have a few friends that have iPhones. I'm going to share this app right after this episode to them. Maybe they'll buy it. I hope they do, but at least they'll be informed npb if it's not today, maybe tomorrow, they'll get it. But once again, thank you so much, Jennifer,
this has been like the most fun conversation. So I really appreciate it. Thank you. And your ideas have been fantastic. I'm gonna try that next iteration at some of the men.
Perfect. I can't wait. So yeah, if you want to learn more about Jennifer, you can go check her out in the description below. There'll be all the links there. And if you'd like to be on my podcast or have any questions at all, you could send me an email at Tom for your firstname.lastname@example.org. And of course, if you think this podcast is going to be helpful for anybody who is going through a hard time and maybe needs to communicate through colors, because colors can be warm, they can be inviting it this is the episode for them. And if there's any other episode, by all means, share it with them as well. And if you know just to be a little egotistical here or narcissistic, if you like the podcast, leave a review, share it with people because that does help out. And just a few days ago, I started selling merchandise, so I started selling my logo on anything and everything. You want shower curtains with my logo on it. Sure, why not?
Who needs that? But I mean,
is awesome. There's a, there's leggings with my logo on it. I don't know why, but it's there. Mostly like there's coffee mugs and T shirts. So it's pretty much the official hobby shirt. So you can have a shirt that says, Oh, I have made time for my hobby. So yeah, it's go check that out on my website, the link will be below. And yeah, everything else is here. And there's gonna be a bunch of different stuff there. So yeah, once again, thank you so much, Jennifer.
Thank you. I've had the best time and I'm definitely buying something with your logo. Maybe no shower curtain.
Probably smart move. Yes.
So Until the next episode, make some time for your hobby. Take care.