12:41PM Jul 27, 2020
I'm Stephen. This is my whole 2020 bump of the first bumps to get our creative thoughts out there, specialize in information security and software engineering. As such, I like to work on interesting problems that improve my life and as well as others that may not be able to find themselves on such interesting problem that I worked on is making my power wheelchair semi autonomous little project seemed challenging at the time, but it turned out to have far reaching possibilities in technology. It's helped me to find that I have a passion and a desire to help secure medical devices. I require assistive tech in my daily life, I would want to make sure these things are secure research opened many doors for me in multiple areas like Information Security medical device hacking and helped me to earn presenting spots in globally recognized conferences or graduating from university, my project was turned into an open source framework to work with a closed and proprietary protocol called our net that earned international interests with schools and universities. And this year, I'm on the press team for hope 2020 Pope 2020, everyone is encouraged to create a video of 10 to 60 seconds, saying something about hope about their life or their families or friends lives, shout outs to people you care about calling these bumps and we'll air them between talks during hope 2020 from July 25th to August second.
Hello hope 2020. My name is Roberto Cervantes, I am 18 years old and I live in Mexico. Today I want to share with you a break that I've been working on that's called future is a standalone open source privacy respecting search engine that is self hosted here at my house and he's powered by deep learning algorithms that were also developed and trained here in my house by me below I will leave a link to the GitHub repository and also to the, to the web page.
Hopefully they can come to
our station or her.
Hopefully they can come to our face and learn how to learn from each other learn about themselves.
learn about trees.
Hi everyone. How y'all doing Philip here from Portugal watching, hope for the first time live always wanted to attend never quite managed to make it beyond the great pond. Great to be here with you guys talking on the chat watching a lot of great talks a lot of great content so far, and still a lot more stuff to go a little bit about me I wonder this netlabel called enough records, you should go to enough record start seeing.org we have shit thumbs up releases free for download.
I'm a big advocate of free culture and copyright reform, and I'm also an active member of the demo scene doing some programming code for graphics and also artists digital artists of different sorts doing noise music and that kind of stuff. So, yeah, well, nice to meet you all and hope you have a great help.
All Good morning, we're back here at hope central for another exciting talk. Thanks so much to everyone that's been with us over the weekend, we have nine days of hope. We're just now starting day three I'm so excited. Hacker Hunter is our leadoff talk for the morning, like to say thank you so much. This is a talk, that's all about how hacking is a mystery to television and film producers, we're going to hear about what that means and what our speakers have to say about it, Rainer Bach is with us. And also, Laura Misa Ingram thanks so much for being with us and please let's hear what you have to say.
Thank you so much, Greg for that intro, um, my name is laura ingram, I am the story producer for hacker hunter which is a documentary series all about cybercrime and cybersecurity. As a story producer My job is to essentially find the characters and the people to tell the stories that we're trying to recreate as documentaries. My background is working as a freelance filmmaker and photographer, and I'll hand over to Reiner my colleague.
I mean, thanks for having us. we have a last minute addition, basically. So, we heard someone dropped out and that's how we were allowed to be the morning entertainment here today. I am executive producer of a hacker series. And I'm actually working at Kaspersky, the marketing so hacker Hunter is, in the end, produced by tomorrow unlocked which is a production house that is owned by Kaspersky. And I've been in PR in cybersecurity for a long time, so not doing anything relevant in research but trying to get it out there to the public. And what I've met met what what I've noticed over the years and has created a growing frustration with me and a lot of colleagues was that there are such interesting and amazing stories in cybercrime and cyber security, and today we have a share of Interpol told us last week, 5050 between cybercrime and real crime, but it is so difficult for media to actually report on crime in the depth that it would cybercrime in the depth that it would actually, that it should be recorded on, and a few years ago a filmmaker called Hugo Barkley came to us and said he would like to do a cybercrime real crime documentary series and we invited him to our security analysts summit in Tenerife at that time. And basically it's how hacker hunter started because he joined that conference, and was filming loads of interviews, hours of interview material. And when we stayed in touch after that in two years later I think it was we met for coffee in London, and he told me that while he's still trying to get that series of missions that he's speaking to simply are not interested because they don't understand what it's about. They think it's not relevant to their audiences they think it's not visual enough and such things. And at that moment I said okay look, we have the budget. Let's do this together let's try let's see if we can do a series about cybercrime and hacking and cybersecurity in some way. That is at the same time entertaining and accurate. And that's how we started working on this last year, put out two episodes last year and publish another two episodes this year. And,
well, if you look at. If you look at hacking in in Hollywood in movies in general,
it's often a painful experience isn't it. You see, totally unrealistic depictions of hacking totally over the top mega hacking where someone would hack into the Bank of England within a second, or where they would be using super mega amazing tools that look super crazy on screen but actually have no no extra meaning. And I know that it frustrates many people that did frustrate us too and it's something we did not want to do but then on the other hand well hacking is a bit of a I
don't want to
say anything wrong here rather boring time consuming task from a filmmaking perspective, it's not mega screen friendly and when I speak to our own researchers, and I would ask them okay how do we visualize that What did you do to find this they would say, Well, I was sitting in front of a screen for 18 hours in a row.
So that obviously is not an amazing film material, but it is the reality. And so what we
try to do in this series was well be at the same time realistic and entertaining and
yeah Lara will give you a few examples of how we approach this what we're trying to do.
Yes. So, obviously you know coming from a documentary standpoint it's a different ballgame from fiction and film and the things that you would see in Hollywood obviously they have a lot more license to just work purely with their imagination, even if they're offending some people or it's a bit cliche it's not a big deal but documentary obviously is about real people and real stories so there's a bit more of a responsibility to portray that accurately. And with honesty and authenticity. So for us, there were a couple of tools, and filmmaking methods that we would use to do this in the episodes that we've already produced so we would do things like reconstruction scenes so obviously you know when we're telling stories about cybercrime incidents or big hacks that have happened in the past. You know, there are things that we obviously couldn't film because we're retelling a story so we would essentially pick up specific scenes from our contributors interviews and then actually recreate that scene where we would cast people. We would you know do a lot of research around it trying to make sure that we got as many details as accurate as possible so for example, in our second episode. We did an episode about wanna cry the global ransomware attack which I'm sure everyone knows about. And also the story of Marcus Hutchins, from when he was in his parents bedroom. In, in England, stopping the malware from spreading all the way up to his trial. Last year, obviously it was a little bit tricky to cast an actor that looks like Marcus so trying to find someone that was mixed race, but had light skin with a ginger Afro was a little bit tricky, but we managed to find a way around it and yeah essentially I mean you can see on the slides here we did a reconstruction scene of this interrogation that happened when Marcus was leaving Vegas from a hacker conference he was in the airport heading back to the UK, and it was at that moment that the FBI took him to a room at the back of the airport and started interrogating him and questioning him for what he later found out was his creation of the Kronos malware, when he was a teenager. And then obviously you know there are other tools that we would use like for example the courtroom scenes where even though we were actually at the courthouse we weren't allowed to bring cameras in. So we were basically just we hired a courtroom artist to do sketches and animate that so those are some of the tools that we use for Episode Two. Another thing that we would do is we would use visual motifs, and essentially pick out like a theme or a motif that was quite prominent in the story. And then we would play with it visually to inject some more cinematic style filming. so the first episode we did was about carbon neck, the cyber criminal group and ATM jackpotting. And so obviously a very common theme in that story was this idea of money and ATMs. I think it's on a next slide Reiner. Yeah, there we go. Um, so we managed to hire out an ATM that was actually a working ATM from a prop house in London. And essentially we hired out a blackbox studio. We built a big rig so that we could get really nice kind of smooth slider shots with a camera, we basically just filmed slow motion. Money cash fake cash that we bought off Amazon and we had fans underneath you can see in the behind the scenes photos and literally we just don't slow motion money flying around and that was one of the kind of visual themes that kept coming up throughout the film. So, it's essentially just a way of trying to inject a bit more cinematic stylized filming, to kind of break up the interviews to illustrate what people are saying but also try to keep it playful and dramatic, but also accurate. Now there are a few things that we would also do is, you know, using things like graphics color grading to create moods archive and even music so for every episode we have a music composer actually create an original score. And through there we've been able to really create something that's still very cinematic, but so very real.
I'm gonna hand over to reinartz about
what else is always helpful is if we don't have to talk about hacking too much when we're talking about hacking right. I think it's one of these approaches where people think okay this is about cybercrime we have to show a hacker doing something but sometimes it's much more interesting to actually show the historical context if you look at carvana for example that episode, that was our first episode, we strongly focused on binary check and looking at ATM check party, and we were quite lucky to find number one historical photography of him and presentations of hacker conferences like this one. That would then help actually tell the story in a very realistic way because we, we had him retrospectively basically demonstrating how this technology works and for sure this, this is gold for filmmakers in that case because it helps us to be number one 100% realistic and secondly give the historical context, we're currently filming an episode about the Olympic destroyer attack on the Winter Olympics in Pyeongchang in 2018. And that, again, gives a very very rich historical setting with lots of nice footage around, and I have the feeling that we would be able to film that film nearly without any sense of hacking, which is very helpful in a way because you. The danger is always there that when you try to shoot hacking in an entertaining way. You are overdoing it a bit and we have to admit that. Even we are not necessarily always
aware that we are maybe going a bit too far. Lara,
that's definitely one thing that we're always trying to keep in mind when we're making these films, is the idea of just trying to avoid stereotypes of hackers and you know we know that there are so many. One of the most common ones is like this teenage boy like in a basement in his parents house, wearing a black hoodie and or just like hooded figures in general hoodies like anonymous, things like that. And so, you know, in certain points of the series we've tried to actually call out those stereotypes and we've tried to create something new and challenge them in a way. So in one of the reconstruction scenes for example in our first episode on Carbonite. You know, one of our contributors is talking about how Carbonite is like a full blown operation it's it's a it's a big network of people. And so, as part of that reconstruction scene we had a guy that was smartly dressed in a suit. We had him kind of under the spotlight sitting at this like big throne like chair on a on a big desk. And that was like a little bit playful, it was a little bit exaggerated maybe but we wanted to just give this idea that you know hacking. Although there are a lot of amateur hackers out there, obviously the people that we were kind of talking about with regards to Carbonite were really like big players there, it's like a multi million dollar, kind of network that they're running and they really are working as business professionals. Another stereotype that we've also been trying to challenge a little bit is the, I guess. The idea that hackers are always men. So, in our third episode which is still in production we're actually shooting a reconstruction scene with a hacker we've actually cast a woman to play the hacker, um, so you know we might not always get it right. We might still have things in the episodes that are a bit like eye roll or, you know, a bit cliche but it's definitely important for us as filmmakers to make sure that we have. Off the record conversations with hackers, you know, even if that doesn't lead to an interview we would still have those conversations with them to even just run things by them and say you know if we shot a scene of, you know, x y Zed would this be something that you can imagine as being real in your world or is that a bit too far. You know, just running things by them seeing is this an accurate portrayal or does it just make you roll your eyes and think oh it's such a cliche. And you know, obviously the whole point of documentary filmmaking is that you are able to go deeper into a subject you have the time to explore things beyond the sensationalist news headlines so it's something that we really value and something that we're very grateful for actually as part of our, our task.
Yeah. Over to you right there.
Yeah, we also, As I said before, I mean, we don't have to.
Picture hacking scenes, a lot to talk about cybercrime. So always that we are looking very much it was a people at personal experience. also extremely important for us and, well, what, what makes the best for films are personal stories that we can tell, and we have that one story, or that one scene in the first film, where one of our contributors actually told us the story of how they were called into a bank that was attacked by carbonic, and they were sitting there and they knew what they had a feeling they had a hunch let's say that someone was watching them. So they were sitting at a computer in that branch they were sure that the computer was infected and so what they did was they just typed in Hello, in Russian was in the Ukraine, I think, in an open works document and they waited a bit, and a few seconds later someone typed Hello back and like that. They obviously have made contact. And this is very obviously as you can see on the screen, not too complicated hacking. Nevertheless, it is the kind of story that makes for a beautiful film reconstruction scene where we can say, Okay, this has actually happened. Let's think about is, people out there understand it, it's quite, quite easy to imagine for someone that they are now sitting in front of a computer someone has hacked their computer in some way, and would be typing something, it's maybe even some even a scene that we would have seen in older movies about hacking but still this is realistic this happened so this is something that we are absolutely happy to take in.
when we started this whole thing.
We didn't know what we get these kind of stories when someone tells us a story about how they were sitting in front of a screen and, in some way, communicating with an attacker directly or something like that it's difficult access is always an issue for documentary filmmaking. And as we are a corporate production house as I said in the beginning. I'm working for Kaspersky really the the main question we asked ourself, at the very very beginning was. Why would anyone want to speak to us if we do these films I mean we have a serious mission we really want to make good films. We don't want to do any marketing bullshit here but how do we convince people that this is actually the case. And that they are not somehow part of an ad campaign or something. How would we get someone from a direct competitor like fireeye to participate in, in our film, because they are crucial for the story, but what they speak to us, and why, and how, and with other contributors, the question was if they hear that there's a big international company behind this film. Would they ask for money that they wouldn't with a normal documentary that would have led to issues because we don't have any, any more budgets than a normal documentary. And these were all super well these were all concerns I had at the beginning really big concerns, and
luckily they panned out not where these concerns did not
that they were useless, you could say, because we had amazing people like Lara wouldn't have taken care of getting access and she will tell you a little bit more. In these autumn has been a one and a half years that we've been working on this series. We've been able to get access and how much we happy about that.
Yeah. So, I mean, you know we've been pleasantly surprised again and again with how accommodating and how open minded, the vast majority of people have been when we were approached them to do an interview, you know, obviously, there were certain like organizations or cases that were tricky and we kind of anticipated that from the beginning but, um, you know, I think we've always been pretty blown away especially myself I don't come from a cybersecurity background at all. I come from a film background and I've just always been interested in cyber and technology and these kinds of stories. But that's kind of the the you know the extent of it so I was always really pleasantly surprised by how the cybersecurity industry and community, always felt very open and people just seem to be guess, very like open to collaborating and you know really wanting to give the correct credit where credit is due. So, I had many cases where I would approach certain security researchers about, you know, research they had done on a particular hack or a particular malware and they would say oh yeah you know I can tell you about this and this, but you really need to also speak to this person and this person and this person, they were the ones that really found it. They were the ones that first identified the sample. They're the ones that named a sample so I always got the sense of the community being very much. Yeah, just quite open with intelligence sharing amongst themselves. So I think that really helped us as well and I think just like any documentary access is not necessarily always going to be an overnight thing, sometimes you do have to be a bit convincing and, you know, I think, because our intentions have always been so solid and so I guess transparent you know we genuinely as Reiner said want to tell amazing stories and produce amazing films because these stories really are incredible. I mean even me if I would tell friends of mine You know the kinds of things that I'm working on and researching, you know even carbanak the fact that 40 ATMs were hacked remotely and all of the ATM, money is just being spit out of the ATM without anyone touching it you know, people just have no idea that these things are actually happening outside of cybersecurity community and industry so you know I think there was a lot of trust I guess that was built, and I think especially the more episodes we've done, even just the the first one on the second one that really also helped build trust because people that I would approach and show these episodes they would be able to immediately see how diverse, our contributors are so we would have security researchers from Kaspersky but also from fire AI and Cisco tell us and it would be you know such a wide mix so people would immediately be able to tell that okay we actually are trying to make really good documentaries we're not trying to, you know, promote any one company over another create any kind of ad It is literally just about telling these stories and giving them a platform because they are so interesting and important. You know, but we did have a couple of issues so I guess sort of more on the side of people who surprise surprise do not want to admit that they've been hacked, especially when it's a big organization. For example, when we did the wanna cry episode, because we were based in the UK a large focus of that story was on the NHS the National Health Service in the UK where, you know, huge parts of the NHS hospitals, emergency services were all completely shut down because of the ransomware attack. And during the research phase and outreach I contacted about 40 Hospital trusts and not one single one of them agreed to be interviewed they were just absolutely no way and even when we try to explain look we're trying to focus on the lessons that we're trying to, you know, make these stories so that people can learn from these mistakes there's just so much resistance and it's understandable. But there are ways around it so in the end, I found a doctor who was actually in the middle of heart surgery at one of the hospitals that was affected by wanna cry. So he was there, he was able to give a firsthand experience that he actually is not a full time NHS staff worker, and he kind of works on attachments in hospitals between Israel and the UK. So that was kind of our way in. So, there are always ways around it but it is really difficult. Some cases where obviously people don't want to admit that they've been hacked they don't want to admit that their security systems are terrible. But yeah, it's always a challenge but we've always found ways around it so it's been it's been really exciting.
We had a question from the audience here that Greg, for what it does. Do you think that law enforcement have realistic understanding of factors or are they subject to the same glamorization that is so often portrayed in media. I think both. I think people. There are definitely people in law enforcement, that have a very very good understanding of what's going on if we look at a number of people we interviewed a number of police and law enforcement, that we interviewed. It was a very very good understanding of what was happening and what was realistic and we, the best access to law enforcement we had was actually in Taiwan for the carbine episode. My feeling was that these people knew very very well what they were doing there. But then, I mean not everybody's working in cybercrime units. So I assume there must be a very, very big portion of
law enforcement that really only know about them
about hacking, whether what they've seen in films, and so for them. Most likely yes it would be. Another example is the church that was touching Marcus Hutchins, he if you, if you read or listen to what he said in the end had a very clear understanding of that he said Marcus, obviously did something extremely useful for the society while he also did something that was not very extremely useful actually bad. But then he had enough understanding of the topic to say, okay, we can weigh this up in a certain way and can say this is, he's done so much positive that we should not send him longer into prison and so I think there's not a clear answer to that but we have a few examples where we have the feeling that that it works for many people in the law enforcement to understand what's going on.
Let's take another question before we jump into into the rest of our presentation. Have you ever tried to represent a hacker space hacker community outside of criminal context in media How would you approach that actually we currently in a way are so there's the
volunteer group that is currently helping hospitals and medical institutions of any kind, to be safe in the COVID-19 crisis. There's obviously no criminal context to that at all but we haven't. We're filming about that currently. It still has a security aspect and a certain crime aspect itself. Just because of the fact that
hospitals are being attacked, but the people that we're focusing on are
not criminals, they are not involved in anything criminal and it's a purely. Yeah. Their mission is to help in this crisis. I don't think it's much different from a different from depicting or telling a story about cybercrime really because, again, it's human stories, it's interesting people that we've met there. And maybe building the story arc is a bit more difficult because you don't have a criminal act at the beginning that you could use and that would build suspense, but from getting access and building a story perspective. Laura is nodding so someone's not saying anything. Still, it seems to be more or less the same to me. Yeah. If you have more questions. Keep them coming. We will just jump in whenever we have a bit of time. We just quickly wanted to give a quick overview also of, which films we've made which films are coming up. So we've produced two films last year. One was called hack 100 cashing in was about carbanak. And, but I don't think I have to explain to anyone here what Carbonite is but when I heard of Carbonite for the first time. It was really total Hollywood material. People hacking into bank spitting out of money out of ATMs sending money mules to pick it up and it was also surreal and
honestly also quite innovative I found
that I thought this is absolutely absolute perfect film material, and I still hope someone will write a wonderful script about that and it will make a wonderful Hollywood movie one day. But for us, for a documentary for sure this was super interesting that you will also because it was. It's so visual, right, someone walked into a cash machine that is giving him, simply getting oil, oil money, which is super super interesting. But the question there really was who would give us an inside story, because it's not, not a secret that banks are not talking about such things usually. Would we get someone like Dennis catana the supposed mastermind to talk to us and such things. So that was very unclear at the beginning. olara was heavily involved in that, so she can take a bit more of how we got access to
lately so yeah obviously with carbonite I mean, immediately it's an incredible story it's it's wild I mean, yeah, just all the things that you would want from a film. But then, obviously, how do you actually create a visual narrative that can, you know, hold audiences in and really do the story justice. So a big thing I guess for documentaries what's really helpful in doing that is actually to locate this big thing like Carbonite you have to really locate it into a specific time and place. So obviously we did our research with carbonite you know they made approximately up to a billion dollars over a few years, stealing money from multiple banks across multiple countries. And then we came across the Taiwan story. So in 2016. About 40 banks 40 ATMs across Taipei City were hacked remotely, and 22 money mules were sent in to collect the cash. And we really like the Taiwan story because, first of all, it gives a sense of how global cybercrime is it was nice to kind of focus somewhere that was outside of the US or the UK. We liked having contributors speaking in different languages you know for the same reasons, and essentially we focused on this carbon hack hack of firstbank were about $6 million disappeared from those ATMs across Taipei. And the other thing that really drew us into that story was basically the out of the 22 money mules that were sent in to collect the cash in the end. Two of them were caught. And what that really proved and this is something that came up time and time again with people that we've spoken to from cyber is this idea that, you know, cyber criminals are notoriously difficult to catch and to arrest. But in this case two of these money mules were actually caught and you know this was obviously one of the rare moments that this has happened from such a crime of such a big scale. We were speaking to actually one contributor for another episode and she was telling me how the only cyber criminals that the UK caches are and arrests are 16 year old so it goes to show how much of a big deal. It was that these two money meals were actually caught. And the fact that the Taiwanese were able to do that made them very happy to participate in this documentary this was like a huge source of pride for them to the point where the end there was actually a bit of competition between two of the main government ministries that we were dealing with that were involved with, you know, all of the detective work and the tracking down and the rest of these money meals. So it was like the Criminal Investigation Bureau in Taipei, and the Taiwanese Ministry of Justice so they were actually we later found out we're kind of trying to tell us to only really focus on their team as opposed to the other so for documentary filmmakers to have two big players actually fighting for interviews with us that's like a dream. So at the end we had amazing access with the Taiwanese both sides of the Taiwanese law enforcement. They actually ended up giving us like over 50 gigabytes of, like, straight up. Footage from the police cameras when they did the raids and found suitcases just packed with cash in these money meals hotel rooms that the police were actually wearing on their vests as they raided the room so I mean it was just absolute gold for us and, you know, it's one of those things in filmmaking where sometimes you just get really lucky, and in this case it was just about tapping into the fact that they would have been really happy to be involved because they caught someone. And so that really worked in our favor and I guess part of access and filmmaking is, you know, you kind of have to be a little bit intuitive with these things so we sort of went in knowing that they might be proud of these arrests that they that and then we sort of like played it to our advantage in a way. But then we also told a story that really did them justice that really highlighted all of their incredible work because it is really difficult to do what they did. Yeah, and in the end they were they were very happy and so we're we
say over to you Reiner,
yes, we're running a bit short on time I think we only have six minutes left so let's.
Before we address quick more questions.
The second thing we did last year was a feeling that actually.
I still sometimes being criticized for.
I spoke to a security researcher for a film that we're doing right now and asked if he would want to appear in that one. And he told me that No he doesn't want to because we did a film about Marcus Hutchins, and he doesn't like microsuction said that's where you would not appear in any other films, and most likely there are more people in the industry or in their cybersecurity scene. That would think things similar but why did we do a film about that well wanna cry, obviously, is the biggest publicized
cyber attack that ever happened. So in a way, we had to focus on that it was a good starting point for one of our first two episodes and.
Well, Mark is with his story from
going from being a relatively unknown researcher to being the hero of the moment to down, down to zero being arrested by the FBI, obviously, a super super interesting story and I think we've made relatively clear that we are undecided if he's a hero or villain. But still we thought it is a very very interesting story. And also, our director you will absolutely definitely wanted to film this film so we had to give it to him. Well we have almost 16 minutes actually I'm being told that we can continue waffling.
yeah, I mean,
I found that we absolutely wanted to do a film that was very personal and a film in which we were lucky to get super amazing access, because, yeah. Marcus just spoke to us and Laura can tell more about what happened.
Yeah, so, um, it's funny because initially when we were talking about wanna cry and Marcus Hutchins and, you know, I think when Hugo first decided he wanted to do this we still didn't have all of the information we didn't know when his court hearing was but as we started to have our meetings and our initial research, you know, we started getting court dates and so we're like okay we need to really move with the story. And initially we thought that we could do the film regardless of whether Marcus agreed to be a part of it we were like okay, there's so much archived there's court filings or social media. But in the end you know thank God that he did agree to it because I think there's no way that we could have done it without him. If you watch the piece, you'll see that it is very much character driven. It's a lot more of a human story you know the carbon neck episode was a lot more about an event, and because we have the access with the law enforcement in the archive, that was sort of our, the energy that really pushed the film forward but with the wanna cry piece, it was really character driven. And it turns out you know the the fact that we were at the time of startup tech content platform with already strong links to the cybersecurity community this this was actually a huge plus for Marcus. He kind of liked that we were like at the time a bit more low key and we already knew what you know what was what in cyber with obviously the links to Kaspersky and tomorrow and locked, apparently his lawyers had been pressuring him to do you know big exclusive interviews with CBS News but that wasn't what he wanted. So yeah we filmed with him over a few months and followed his trial we were there at his final court hearing. You know, and obviously, For us it was very interesting to follow the story and how divisive, he was as a character and I think sure like some people might might say oh but you're giving this guy a platform and he did something really wrong when he was 17 you know but I guess from a documentary point of view, the fact that, you know, he did make up for it in a way you know he he really did do a lot of great work he stopped wanna cry from spreading. So, there was a sense that he had kind of on his own terms changed direction. But I think even still, it's important for documentaries to promote or provoke debates and conversations and start dialogues and I think Reiner, correct me if I'm wrong but I think that episode was one of the most engaging episodes, there was a lot of engagement a lot of comments, a lot of people started discussing and debating around that and that for us is also a really important reason to tell stories like this. To start those conversations.
Indeed was, I think we got a number of hate clicks and a number of life clicks, but we've got, you know this this episode was actually watched quite a lot. Um, What happened then this year when we started producing episode three and four was suddenly covered, hit, hit the world and somehow it changed everything right we didn't really always we weren't sure if we could produce or not. We've seen lots of film productions been moved back. And we decided not to move, but we decided we would we would want to try to nevertheless do it. And nevertheless quite interesting because you'd have directors in your film who are simply used to work in in a certain way. And that means they have to be there personally and speak to someone who would look them in the eyes, you know, to get that story out of them. And that's not possible right now. So that was a bit of reluctance at the beginning, one of our directors was like Yeah, let's do that. Amazing. Let's try something new and the other one was maybe still is like yep I want to be there. So we needed a bit of technical creativity you see on the, on the slide that will obviously was lots of video conferencing happening and we have contributors come in with six shots into the office having themselves photographed so we could choose which would be the best for the shoot and such things, which was really quite nice. And on this next slide you see how we somehow taped a phone to the camera so our director could be there and do the interview as if she would be in group. Also she wasn't so yeah it was time for creativity and in a way I think we've turned that challenge into an opportunity also because for the films that we're doing two films about the covet cybersecurity situation right now. And these two films are shot under covered circumstances are about the complex situation, and they will get a look as you can see on these screens that represents a bit or demonstrates how the situation was with lots of video conferencing stuff like that so it was quite interesting. Also this film was a super interesting experience in terms of how much access Laura got from people and support.
Yeah, I was actually really surprised. So for this episode, it's still in production it's as Reiner mentioned it's all about cyber attacks against healthcare institutions hospitals The World Health Organization, all of that but you know obviously it's seen a massive spike since the pandemic. But I was actually really pleasantly surprised with how cooperative and welcoming people have been so I think, out of all the episodes so far this one is probably our best in terms of access in the sense that pretty much every single person that we wanted to interview, apart from one said yes to being interviewed and you know, in many cases, invited us into their homes well invited the local cameraman into their home so we have obviously been following quite strict protocols. In line with, you know, safety and hygiene regulations so we've, we've had to hire remote cameraman or women trying to keep the crews as minimal as possible and then as you as you saw on as Reiner explained our directors would be conducting the interview remotely. But yeah, nevertheless you know we we've been led into people's homes and offices that are that are closed for months, they've made arrangements to have them reopen and have a film in there so it's been absolutely amazing and I think you know maybe there is a sense right now that people are obviously going through the story as we are telling it so there might be that sense of urgency or that sense of really wanting to kind of contribute in some way to telling these stories that are that are quite informative and spreading awareness on how you know cybercrime is definitely not going away it's only increasing and you know attackers see things like pandemics as opportunities. And that we have to kind of be aware of this. So, yeah, that was actually really really positive for us and we're super excited to to release that episode, second episode that we're currently working on is actually about an old story so it's about Olympic destroyer, the cyber attack the wiper that was launched on the Pyong Chang Winter Games in 2018. Um, and that's definitely presented its own kind of set of issues so you know obviously pandemic. Same situation only hiring local crews, but also the fact that we're trying to tell a winter story, and like film about Winter Olympics in the middle of summer. So that's also been a little bit tricky but you know we're currently trying to source like an ice hockey stadium that we can film recon scenes in but I think filming in a pandemic has definitely taught us to just be more creative, as cliche as that may sound it actually has been so full of lessons and I think everyone's really taken something different out of it. So yeah, I'm just really grateful obviously that we even have these projects to work on right now and yeah obviously do our best to really tell these stories to the best of our abilities. Yeah. We
have five more minutes we have two questions currently in this chat which I would like to address. Let's start with the last one. It's obviously interesting to focus on the action of a real hack, to what extent can you make the long time of quiet learning programming, etc just as interesting in other words those thousands of hours we sit in front of our keyboards alone, and the application bullying and other earlier life factors that lead to that big hack.
I think it could be a super what what you just wrote in here could be a super interesting story. If it's a story about one person, and we've been following the, the development of how did someone end up being who they are today. That will obviously make a very good film. Would we really be able to visualize thousands of hours of coding in front of a TV. As a real visualization, I don't think so, because we could do a super mega monster time lapse. That would show how you're changing from a little kid to a grown up man sitting in front of the computer, most of the time. But, would that be super interesting I'm not sure. The human story behind itself would be absolutely absolutely mega interesting and I think it's a story that someone could tell if we would have the right person and the right access. We have three minutes left so I kept this as a last question because I have no answer to it. Bruce Schneier mentioned in his session that the elites hack the system for their own benefit. Have you thought about that topic.
It sounds like an amazing topic.
it definitely sounds like something film should be made about. I haven't seen his presentations, though. So obviously, we'd have to have a look at that later on. We're currently not so much. Looking at the political dimensions of hacking but rather at criminal cases. I would say maybe because it's easier to make a film about it. And just in our fourth film right now. But, um, I would see that as an interesting opportunity if we look at the socio political effects that hacking has, and that may be also the factors that nation states are increasingly getting into getting involved in hacking or maybe even setting the trends in hacking these days. Yeah, there could be a highly interesting topic to discuss and everything that is an interesting topic to discuss is a good topic for film
that links a little bit to our current film that we're in production for so Olympic destroyer, you know that's always been a tricky one in a way because I guess like one of the main takeaways from that. That story is really, it was this big international who done it. And obviously you know we know that attribution and cyber is such a well it's basically impossible. You know, and we know that you know, there are several cyber security firms out there that just as a matter of policy, they just don't attribute and that's just kind of not their job but they just focus more on the technical aspects and it's sort of up to law enforcement to do that attribution and I think in this case we decided to sort of stay along those lines and we decided to actually focus on why attribution is so difficult rather than kind of trying to point the blame or sort of uncover or reveal who was behind Olympic destroyer. You know, and I guess like throughout the film we are sort of alluding to it we're sort of, you know, we used Olympic destroyer and that that attack on the opening ceremony is kind of the opening scene. But we really use that as more of a springboard to launch into this wider issue of attribution in cyber and why it's not black and white and we kind of throughout the film you'll see when it comes out. If you have a chance to look at it, it essentially takes you through who the usual suspects are and what the false flags were about and why certain people might have had motivations to put the blame on on North Korea for example. But I think it's it's always like a case by case basis like with this particular film at bat felt like the right thing to do. I'm sure there are obviously so many other stories out there and that might be a little
tricky but open, I guess. Yeah, apparently we're almost done.
Yeah. So we were told to wrap up so thanks for listening to us and back to brick. That was fantastic, we, you know, we all spend so much time absorbed in media and it's so seldom that we get such an informed look behind the scenes. So on behalf of the attendees, we thank you for being with us today. There's been a lot of enthusiastic chat in the, in the forums about your talk and I sent some of the questions right away. And I hope you'll continue to be part of the hacker community and I think you've already discovered what a welcoming community is and how appreciative we are of your engagement. So thank you. Be well, and we'll be back in a few more minutes with our next talk, it took so much care.
This is my home, 2020 bump. One of the first bumps to get our creative thoughts out there, specialize in information security and software engineering. Such, I like to work on interesting problems that improve my life and as well as others that may not be able to find themselves in such an interesting problem that I worked on as making my power wheelchair semi autonomous little project seemed challenging at the time, but it turned out to have far reaching possibilities in technology. It's helped me to find that I have a passion and a desire to help secure medical devices. I require assistive tech in my daily life, I would want to make sure these things are secure research opened many doors for me in multiple areas like Information Security medical device hacking and helped me to earn presenting spots in globally recognized conferences for graduating from university, my project was turned into an open source framework to work with a closed and proprietary protocol called our net that earned international interests with schools and universities. And this year, I'm on the press team for hope 2020. Hope 2020, everyone is encouraged to create a video of 10 to 60 seconds, saying something about hope about their life or their families or friends lives, shout outs to people you care about calling these bumps and we'll share them between talks during hope 2020 from July 25 to August 2.