Meet the EFA: A Discussion on Grassroots Organizing for Digital Privacy, Security, Free Expression, Creativity, and Access to Knowledge
4:53PM Jul 26, 2020
The Electronic Frontier Alliance is a grassroots network founded by the Electronic Frontier Foundation, they join us for our next presentation, meet the FA, a discussion on grassroots organizing for digital privacy, security free expression and creativity. Please welcome Elliot Avi huson Freddy Martinez Nash and Emily St. Pierre.
Thank you, Robin Yes My name is Nash and I am the Associate Director of community organizing at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, where I lead the organizing team which is responsible for coordinating the Electronic Frontier Alliance, which is a network of over, 70 grassroots organizations across the US and so again thank you for joining us. You know, for years. ffs hosted a panel called Ask the E FF it's been a great opportunity for folks to find out about the work that e FF is doing across the country and internationally as well, and to ask questions about the things that are really important to you. And in that way this year's hope is no different. And in fact, my colleagues Kurt Opsahl Alexis Hancock, Indian McKenney Rory Mir and Naomi gilens will be hosting and ask the E FF panel on Saturday at 1300 EDT as part of this year's hope conference, and I really want to recognize that we wouldn't be able to do any of that work without the support of so many members of the hacker community. So thank you so much. But there is so much important work that's happening, that's not led by national organizations like the Electronic Frontier Foundation work that's happening in communities across the United States and led by community and student organizations working to preserve digital rights in their communities and to share skills and knowledge, so that their neighbors are empowered with the information that they need to make informed choices about the ways that they interact with their technology and the Internet, and to support that work, e FF launched the Electronic Frontier Alliance. A few years ago, and as I mentioned the Alliance is made up of over 70 grassroots and community based groups and student led groups across the US, and each of those groups is autonomous so I think it's important to point out that we come together to share resources and tips and support each other's work, but there, but none of the groups are beholden to a given political analysis or ideology, even if it's, you know, Fs viewpoint, it all the groups are autonomous and but we really do coalesce around five key principles, and those are free expression, security, privacy, creativity, access to knowledge and innovation, and many of the groups in the Alliance kind of fit into three major buckets I often refer to one is the hackerspaces like crash space in Los Angeles or root access and Fresno, that are creating opportunities for open spaces for folks to come in and to share tools and resources to innovate and take real control of the devices that they own, and they're also advocacy groups like Oakland privacy in the Bay Area, or surveillance technology oversight project in New York, that are fighting to defend and protect and advance the rights of their neighbors and their loved ones. And the third bucket is their groups that specialize in popular education and really giving people in their in their community in their neighborhoods in their schools, wherever they are, the information that they need to make informed choices around the around the ways that they interact with their technology and the internet and some examples of those might be crypto party and Arbor in Michigan or tea for attack in New York, and today we're going to speak with representatives of four of the Alliance groups and I think this conversation is really important to have because not only is it important to lift up the brain organizing that is happening in cities across the US, but also because I think it's important to recognize that this isn't always easy work, but it is work that we can all be engaging in wherever we live, not just that but there are groups and an entire network that is poised to support you and all of that works. If you'll take the first step, and also that while I'm really honored to be work to have the opportunity to work alongside my bleeding colleagues at the E FF who command a broad range of expertise, you are the expert in the conditions and needs of your community. So again, as Rob mentioned Welcome to the EFI session, a discussion on grassroots organizing for digital digital privacy, security free expression, creativity, and access to knowledge. So the first person I want to I want to introduce the first of the folks that I'm joined here with is Emily St. Pierre, Emily is a security ambassador for future ADA, a Spokane based nonprofit advocating for diversity and inclusion in steam so science technology arts and mathematics and engineering, obviously, and excuse me for the past six years, Emily has used her experience as an offensive security professional to provide privacy and security education within her community, and through her work with feature Ada Emily has established free regular workshops and one on one technical support to the Spokane community and Emily's focus has been in making sure that these resources are explicitly available to underrepresented and under supported members of the public. The Emily future aid is such an awesome name. Can you can you start off by telling us a bit about the significance of that name and what need in your community future ADA was launched to address.
Yes Hello and thank you Nash for this nice introduction. So future ADA is named after the Countess of Lovelace or Ada Lovelace as many folks know her, and she was a mathematician, or writer, among many other things, but she's often recognized as being the first computer programmer. And so future EDA was founded by my wonderful colleague Rebecca lon, who is a fellow woman in it. And after facing many challenges in the industry. She had a vision to start a nonprofit, which would help promote diversity and inclusion within areas, I've seen in the hopes you know of helping that future Ada Lovelace as of tomorrow, realize their potential. So our nonprofit puts on and participates in events to help promote interest in those areas of steam in the Spokane Washington area. And my role specifically as security Ambassador is really, you know, to help. First, you know, promote interest in privacy and security within the community. And secondly, you know, provide access to privacy and security professionals to as you mentioned, underrepresented groups, but we include really the general public in that as well.
Awesome. Thank you, definitely a lot I want to dig into there. So thanks, it's really great to have you with us today Emily and Next I'd like to introduce, Abi haason of black movement lock project, and in full disclosure I've been I've worked together for a number of years. In fact, after years of doing legal support in a range of contexts, Abi. Also international human rights attorney Nicole Lee and I founded black movement Law Project to support the building of black led legal support infrastructure in the US, and it was actually obvious idea for BLP to join the Alliance way before I started working on E FF, and for us to do our first round of digital security trainings and Avi is also an attorney and a technologist he's currently a partner at O'Neal and haason LLP a law practice focused on indigent defense and prior to his work. He was the pioneer of his work with BMP and with with Hasson and O'Neill, he was the master offense corner at the National Lawyers Guild, and he's also worked as a political campaign manager and strategist, a union organizer, a community organizer and ABI continues to conduct trainings and to speak into right on topics of race technology justice or maybe injustice, if you will, and the law. So, Abi I mentioned that like most of the ESA groups fit into like three major buckets female P is kind of an outlier in that model. Can you talk a little bit about why a movement legal support organization would be concerned with digital privacy and security.
Yeah, I mean, a asked me it seems obvious but
you know I frankly, it really just came from, particularly in the kind of post in the Ferguson moment post Ferguson moment 2014 2015 2016 doing legal support work for protests, which means kind of helping people navigate the incarceration system helping people get out of jail helping people create those kinds of helping people prepare for interaction with the, with the criminal system but also helping people navigate it and so it just, it kind of came naturally that we just, you know, we were, we were used to doing things like Know Your Rights trainings and helping people set up legal offices and understand how to organize volunteers and manage databases and stuff but it became very clear, kind of, in that post Snowden moment but also, as, as people just themselves, individually experienced, where an organization experienced more and more surveillance that that we just people just kept asking us about it and kept saying, you know, how do we, what about my phone. Is it safe to do this and so we ended up partnering with the E FF, and kind of I think when the FA was first really starting as a concept. And I think we were one of the first organizations to join up and started doing a series of. million rights trainings, but that incorporated digital digital surveillance training and digital security and then we've partnered with E FF to help you know we've we've consulted on how to develop the, the digital surveillance guide the SSD, and just it's been a great partnership I think because, you know, we have a lot of experience of that on the ground kind of crisis management and and protest experience, but then having the resources of E FF to help build tools has been a great experience.
Yeah, and the security education companion as well I know that was another tool that we helped.
It's like getting some feedback on. Yep. And so yeah, thank you, Abby, and our next speaker really needs no introduction Freddy Martinez is the director of Lucy Parsons lab, and he's also a technologist and an expert on surveillance he was previously a Ford Mozilla open web Fellow at freedom of the press foundation focusing on their securedrop platform. And he's also an expert on the Freedom of Information Act, and in Freddie's own words Freddie is very litigious about FOIA. So, Freddie what is, what was the inspiration for starting Lucy Parsons lab and what are some of like the things that you're most proud of about Lucy Parsons ABS work historically and currently.
Yeah. So, the project sort of got its name from Missy Parsons who's a very famous labor organizer from Chicago. We were all living and working in Chicago, and we got inspiration from her because when she died. The Chicago Police Department and the FBI raided her house and took all of her papers. All of her you know manuals and and pamphlets and all of that stuff. So really kind of taking our name from a Chicago based organizer who really kind of was a major seen as a major. You know, I don't know threat to power or whatever it is. But, you know, a lot of us were really interested in these ideas of police surveillance technology security. And just took out like a sort of a survey of the landscape and realize that, you know, there are groups, big groups like the E FF who are doing a lot of the work that we were very much interested in. But we realize that we don't sort of need to depend on them, we have a place to just do our own thing. And, you know, there was no need for us to get trained or anything like that we just have to be sort of motivated inspired and just get started. So that's where LPL came from. And, you know, it's been a wildly successful project, way beyond our imaginations. So there's a few things that we're really proud of. The one that I'm most proud of, was we were doing it very deep investigation onto how cell phone tracking software technologies or software's used in Chicago. Um, and you know we had, you know, national press about it. The law got changed warm requirements got put into place. But the reason I'm most proud about that is because years later I got contacted by someone who said that their client was had their case dropped because the police were lying about how they got the evidence and things like that. And you know this person had their entire life that they could could have gotten taken away from them because of sort of shady police practice and and a huge violation of their of their rights to due process. So I'm really proud about that one in particular. And the other one that I'm really proud of is our current work around facial recognition technology. You know, there's another talk I'm giving later about a different facial recognition vendor. And, and that one was kind of really groundbreaking. So I'm really proud of our work. Because Chicago is such a massively surveilled city that we have a really deep fight, But we have a huge coalition of people that are sort of pushing so I would say those two things for sure.
Awesome. Thanks for reading, and yeah, definitely a lot of really instrumental fights that and losing quite a lot not only just in their advocacy but also in helping get a lot of information that's supported other folks advocacy and journalism and other things too and so thanks a lot for all the work that y'all do they're super important. And so, and finally, introduce Elliot of sypro collective and Elliot is a motion artist and creative coder who works in interactive fabrication and large scale immersive experiences and other blends of visual work within inches finds in visual work with an interest in mutual aid security and privacy online, and I want to notice that I want to note that Brooklyn is over represented in this group today. As as I live in the bay now originally originally from Brooklyn, obby also out there now and Elliot cipher collected does amazing work with like the Brooklyn Public Library and just throughout throughout the throughout the borough and so thanks for thanks for holding this down. So Elliot in non COVID time cipher puts on a range of workshops socials and other events. Why is that why not just stick to one format.
Yeah, I think it was because, going back to the beginning of the group. One of the reasons that it was restarted was because we felt that there weren't enough security groups that also dealt with the context in which people were seeking out help, and, you know, being able to give that help in a way that was tailored to sort of where they were coming from, instead of just kind of offering one size fits all, training, that might not be as accessible to the average person. And I think, building on that idea of accessibility. And the idea that, to help people with security. You need to be able to reach them in many different ways that kind of ended up leading to the approach of instead of us just focusing on one type of event one type of workshop, having a variety of ways, so that there's kind of a lot of ways for people who are interested in security to get connected with us and learn what they need to know to make their lives more secure so that that might be something like, you know, a very technical presentation, or it could be something that's more of a social event to establish a community in which people can feel comfortable being involved. So I think that's why we've had so many different types of events to be available to different types of people. And, incidentally, you know obviously none of us could really have predicted how 2020 ended up going, but having a lot of different things that we did help to make it easier for us to move online, not being able to have in person events and giving us that flexibility.
Thanks, though, and I'm pulling the pulling that out a little bit I know one of the events that y'all have done, you know, in the pre COVID times anyway was the security events, which I thought which I thought was really interesting in the way that it kind of made some difficult conversations, more approachable and kind of like reduce the stress and and made it a less stressful anxiety anxiety prone kind of environment to have those conversations can you talk a little bit about what that with security. Security was and the thinking behind it.
Right so security was probably one of our best known events, it was a regular event that we would have. And we always had a topic that was sort of you know what we were going to cover in that event, but for all the security's, we tried to make it as open ended as possible and as much of a conversation we're listening to our attendees, as opposed to just broadcasting out information, although you know we had that if it was needed. And I think it kind of goes back to that event I'm glad you brought it up is kind of a great example of, you know, we were trying to create an event that could help people learn about security, but in like a very social. nonconfrontational not like this is a tech event type of format so that people can just come and feel like they're having a conversation, meeting new people, but it's also a great venue to get, you know, what they came for in terms of being more secure.
Yeah, and for folks who have who haven't had the opportunity to attend one security and I think it's important that I point out that it's spelled su sec u ri hyphen t TA, and so it's like a very social event that happens that you know, one of the one of New York's most known like kind of radical bookstores, so people come in like learn to like sit down and have tea and maybe a snack and just kind of have a dialogue that's that that focuses around issues insecurity and creating a kind of an opportunity to happen in a way that's kind of a supportive environment and I think that's really beautiful. And so kind of building on on that string Friday. It feels like we're living through a lot of different, different crises at this moment, how has that impacted the way that you that you and Lucy Parsons lab do your work and how you think about your work.
Ah, so it's a great question, um, we've been doing less, in some ways, like, one of the things that we do a lot now as we just have fun and play video games on our twitch channel Twitch. tv slash Lucy Parsons labs shameless self promotion. And we've decided that like, there are a lot of things that we could help with. But at first like we just gotta have fun. We got to have joy and we got to bring that to the front of our practices. That's really important. In order to maintain our sanity. So that's, that's the first thing. And the other thing that we've sort of started to, you know, do is find where people on the ground needs support. So for example, one of the bond funds in Chicago, the Chicago Community bond fund needed help with their website because they're getting so many donations that will just crash the site, which is a great problem to be having not a great problem when you you know need to donate money. And so what we did was we just spent you know a few weeks, we've been doing this for about a few months now trying to figure out what you know how to both keep their site up and then like also fix the technical problems on the back end. And you know there's only a few of us, and so there's a lot of moving pieces. Yeah. And just like not really jumping like being in our community but like not jumping in with technical solutions like listening to what people's, you know, needs are and just using what we know technically to help them out. And that's really important like i think you know we all want to do everything that we can right now it feels like everything's on fire. Probably because it is, but like we also just need to like sort of slow down and just realize that like, you know, people have mailing lists that they need help figuring out people need to know how MailChimp works, things like that that are probably way more impactful than sort of anything else that we could be, you know, designing technologically so I would say those two things are slowing down having fun. Finding, you know, small projects where we're we're not doing new things we're like amplifying and helping support the work of others. And I think that's that's those are the two major things sort of we've learned in the last couple of months.
Thanks for it and build the building on what Fred just offered, Abi I know you and I have spoken a lot about the, like, the ways that we can be providing the more infrastructure and tools to help folks that are doing movement work, and sometimes it seems like, even though technologists are in my experience will often very politically aware, their lives as technologists or as hackers and as people who are politically active are often siloed. In what ways would it would you like to see hackers and other technologists become more engaged and what do you think is important for them to keep in mind in order to do that in a way that is supportive of the movements they want to work with.
Yeah, thanks. I mean, I really love what Freddie just said because, you know, that I feel like encapsulates a lot of what I would say right like, um, you know, if you haven't done the type of work that people are doing. It's easy for technology focused people, to, to, to not appreciate that. Like other people's time is their life. Right. And that like adopting new technologies are the best. You know, most secure or, you know, I think back on, on GPG parties and think like how what could we have done with that time that we all know now is wasted right like, like, you know, that getting into, you know, getting into understanding the work that people are doing and that might come through very informal interactions, or just having those periods of slowing down but I think, you know, that that the word you mentioned the word infrastructure which is I think very key is understanding what are the critical elements that make an organization function. And it might be the most helpful thing to help people figure out how to say five minutes a day on those things right because five minutes a day is however many hours, right, a year that is people who are when people are dedicating their lives to movement work, and they're spending two hours doing something that they could be doing in five minutes might not be the most perfect thing, but that, but it takes the technologist time to understand the process right and to understand how, like to understand those critical points and so, um, you know, I think that under understanding at a bigger level what wheels are being reinvented what processes could be streamlined or made simpler. And that requires you know that does require spending more time with people and also interacting at different levels with organizations and other technologists because one thing I've noticed from spending more over a decade now in kind of that social justice activist technology space is. There are lots of things that are being reinvented, and there are lots of opportunities to create common infrastructure that we don't have the like mental, and we don't have the physical and we don't have, we just don't have the organizational space to understand those things as problems like, you know, we have hope every couple years, which I think is probably a pretty good space for that but we don't. We need more than every couple years. Yep.
Yeah, absolutely actually one of the one of the things that I've done I really liked what you pulled out around like listening to folks. One of the things that I've done has been the most helpful in that way, is just at the library of San Francisco every week they have a day where folks can come in and and folks that live locally in the bay you have folks from E FF and Google and other tech giants, that will just volunteer their time like go to the library for an hour or two hours every week and people from the community will come in and ask questions, and you might know some really complicated things but sometimes there are some really simple ways of the ways that people's devices are not intuitive to them that just like get highlighted for you in a way that you wouldn't if you just if you weren't spending the time to just hear people's everyday questions that wouldn't even know stand out for you in that way because you just take so many, you take some of that for granted. So like listening is just such an important part I really appreciate that Abi. and for Emily you know this this is hope right and so what are some of the things that the hacker community can could could be doing are there things that folks could start doing today that would help meet some of the needs that you're seeing.
Yeah, absolutely. And like to continue on to your point, you know, how powerful listening is, and not just that. But, reaching out directly to people and other organizations, you know as technology oriented folks, or as technology literate, folks, you know some of the ways we can also help are by asking local nonprofit organizations. You know what do you need help with, and not just and, you know, areas such as tech support, but also research, right, for example, we have a local nonprofit here the YWCA, and they have, you know, an intimate partner violence support already organization, under this, who, you know, was looking for ways to help their clients find and detect surveillance devices in their vehicles, you know, and this is something that they just didn't know who to turn to. But it's a perfect area of research for someone who was a technologist or who is a hacker, and then you can find these novel ways and establish this relationship. And it's just a great way to also find research and and to find topics that you know will have a lot of impact within your community. So, as a hacker, you know, just getting out there and if you don't find those spaces, you know, the create them. One of the things I wanted to do and that got me where I am today. In my work with future EDA was because I really wanted to address a topic of online abuse I wanted to talk about privacy. I wanted to share my knowledge of, you know, different ethical hacking topics as I was learning them, and I didn't know if MySpace I did that I didn't know so I just started creating these workshops. Back then, when I was in Las Vegas was with us and shop, our local Las Vegas hackerspace, and then since I moved to Spokane, I went ahead and just put myself out there and went and found Rebecca, and now I'm proud of future ADA and I get to continue to do this in an even more impactful way, as I've grown, because I've created those spaces and I've gotten to learn from that I've gotten to learn from the different communities that we interact with. I just say, you know, get in there and just start talking to people start listening to them. And just, you'll, you'll find people that need help. Pretty soon enough. If you get out there,
you know and I know, Elliot you just you just had a panel around stalkerware and I know Emily from conversations that we've had that and and what you just shared also that you know helping people navigate situations that that that come out of, you know, domestic abuse or other other types of misogyny in our culture, and obviously this is an issue that's that's really, really, really drives a lot of the work of my colleague, Eva Galperin. And one of the reasons that we created a security education companion was because we recognize that it wouldn't be responsible or sustainable for efsf to just jump into every community and think that we had the answers for and worthy and understood the context of the problems that people were having, but rather would make more sense to be able to give folks a resource that they could that they could use in order to be better support, support systems for people that are in their communities. So when so especially like in a situation when you're dealing with stalkerware but also in some of the other situations that Freddie and ABI have mentioned already, one of the most critical things, is being able to develop trust right and when people are when you're asking people to share situations with them and whether it be something very, very sensitive, you know like, the situations that might lead to the other problems with potentially stalkerware, or even if it's a situations of racial and economic injustice, or, or just you know like I mentioned the people at the library telling, being able to open up and say and talk to people about something that you feel insecure about like your in your lack of knowledge about you know the way your device works at the core of that and being able to, first serve people is being able to build trust right and to so that people feel comfortable and sharing things and things that they might feel vulnerable about what are, and then I leave I open this up to the floor, but maybe if Emily if you want to start off and then if there's anyone that wants to jump, jump in. What are some of the ways that you found it, that had been helpful in building that trust.
Oh, definitely there's something to say with establishing your name, you know, and there's some things that will take time, you know you can't rush sometimes building trust with certain organizations and with certain people you just have to wait and do the work, but also with our clients like we we have something where on Saturdays we have open office hours so we call it, and we offer free help, it's one on one with an information security professional, and you can ask them really in question, help with, whether it be anything from cyber stalking online abuse, research, you just have, you want to know which AV vendor works for you, and things of that sort. We're just there to address any question, and we take a client centric approach to that. And in the sense that we want to make sure that we're not coming in, and just telling everyone what to do. We are coming in listening to folks. And we want to make sure that we give them options, but at the end of the day that the choice is there it's right, they get to pick, it's the power is in their hands to choose what they want to do with their technology. We're just providing them some information, and some options, and that's definitely been helpful and making sure that people understand that we kind of don't have really an agenda. We're just here to help them, and at the end of the day, the choice is theirs and that's been very, very helpful for us.
And I think, just to, I guess, agree with everything you just said and build on it, and I kind of want to lead off with something that actually us. I hope you don't mind me repeating it but you've already said, we were planning out this session is the importance of being humble. And I think that that's so important, because the thing to realize is that in some, maybe not all cases but in a lot of cases when a person comes to an organization like any of ours around security, it's because they've already had an incident where their security has been violated. And that has already a massively eroded whatever trust they might have had in strangers in other people in their intimate partners and the police, you know all these different categories. So you're kind of starting the conversation on security in a place where there might be more of a lack of trust, than just the usual interaction so I think it's like being humble and just showing that you can be there as an organization, and be available to help for when people want to ask for it is so important because you know unfortunately the security thing is, you know, people don't usually get interested in security unless they've had a problem with somebody violating their trust. And so it's very important to understand kind of like the holistic mental state that people come in with, which is not usually just sort of an academic or technical interest it's because you know something bad has happened to them.
Yeah, I mean, and just kind of one thing that we often say in our group is that sometimes it's easier to train someone who's like, more politically aware or has a better sense of how to interact as a person in technology than to take a technologist and, you know, do the other way. So definitely like, you know, I think it's important to just realize that like our skills are as technologists are replaceable like we're we've all learned the same stuff there are different avenues. Um, so humility and the other is really important. The other thing I want to say is that it's really important to be part of the human like we've talked about this a few times, part of the community that you're in, um, the reason that we have so such deep networks with the current and you know emerging organizing groups that are happening in Chicago, is because, you know, we've had, I guess I have like a decade now of having been out with people met people in the streets. And, and seeing what they were talking about to see what they're doing. And to give you an example. A few, maybe two months ago. Someone was asking me about the surveillance airplanes that were flying around Washington DC and how that makes protesters feel, and I was able to talk about that a little bit, but also I'm telling the story about like having been tear gas, two days ago, at the White House for no apparent reason. And I'm not suggesting that you go out and get tear gas to have a story about surveillance. But what I'm saying is that this is, like, you have to be a part of these communities and know what the lived experiences in order, or at least empathetic to those lived experiences in order for people to have credibility and you. So like, usually the way that this works with groups is like they know me, or they know LPL, and they say hey we need help with x y and z texting, can you help and that trust has been built in already. But that's just been years and almost a decade of of building relationships with people. So it's almost automatic, but it wasn't like sort of emerge out of nowhere, like now it's very organic now everyone just trusts each other, inherently, but that relationship comes out of a long history. And so, yeah.
Yeah, it sounds like you put in the work and like I can't I can't underscore the importance of humility enough and so thanks for thanks for sharing that also.
Bobby What are your thoughts.
I'll just, I'll just say real quick I think what everyone said is good. Um, I think, you know, I would, I would add in just kind of the concept of solidarity that, that, you know, as, as a technologist or even as a lawyer or, you know, your job isn't necessarily to, to try to like preach your politics or, or shove your politics onto other organizations, but I think that it's important to articulate and to find points of solidarity and find points of agreement and even articulate points of disagreement. And, you know, be, and to show up right and if you're not showing up. All that there's different ways of showing up also right that like you're not, I just I think that it. I think that it's important to be a full human right. And like part of that is humility, but part of that is also like know if you're as a technologist, you're not going and telling people what they should think but maybe you should tell people what you think in a different format or a different form and invite them right like build networks, build community, build solidarity. And I think that part of that is building our political analysis and sharing it.
Thank you. and so I want to make sure that we're save time for folks that are that are joining us to be able to ask their questions, so I'd want to go around like one book right before we move into is as a kind of final question before we open up the floor for, for the people that are joining us. What is like the one thing that each of you would say is like the most key thing that you'd want to share with people who want to start doing this work, and and and also and if you could also incorporate that like what is the best way that folks could get in touch if they wanted support or if they wanted to support the groups that y'all are working with, what is the best way that they could go about trying to move that forward. So, let's, let's do the do the do another round the same way we did so it'll be Emily, Elliot Freddie and Abi, and then we'll open up the floor.
I invite people to look at their own unique experiences, and to see what it is that they might be able to offer whether that be as a prospective whether that be, you know, regarding knowledge, maybe they're just human resources, you know, look at what it is that you have and find something that you are passionate about, because we want people that are passionate, it just makes things easier. Just both, both for you as someone who's coming in who wants to be involved. And the people that you will be working with and encountering yeah just fine. Take some time to reflect, or I mean, maybe just jump into something and see if you like it or not, you know, both are great options. But I invite all hackers to be more involved with their community and not to be afraid to go ahead and volunteer, and we're future ADA. If you can find us at future a dot orgy, we're always looking to get new volunteers on board, we're always looking to collaborate on security research projects. So you can reach us future Ada orgy we have all our information there.
Thank you. Elliot.
I mean I think I agree with everything that you just said, I guess to start off with the best way to get in contact with us is our email is cipher CYP you are at protonmail calm and our website is cipher dot NYC. I think you know if you want to get involved. Don't overthink it you know go to meetings, put yourself out there. If you're in a place where you feel like there isn't an organization that deals with what you're interested in, you know, create it yourself and put yourself out there, and I can think getting out in the community, you know, things will happen very quickly.
Yeah, um, I guess my one takeaway I would say is that, You know, there's this thing that we say in Chicago is that we all we got like no one's coming to save us. We have to keep ourselves safe, we have to protect each other. So just thinking about like, this is it, you know, everyone here is we have to decide for ourselves how we want to live our lives. Um, so you just have to be organized and what I mean by that is like, I wish, when I had started out someone had told me to like to keep better like paper records and stuff like that. So I would say just be organized and just realize that like literally like no one's like no one's coming to save us. We have to keep each other safe. And so that's like the one thing I would say is really important for people to take away from this talk. So if you forget everything that I had said, just remember that we have to keep each other safe.
Yeah, I think I think maybe maybe it was, I imagine from what you just shared it was probably you Friday by I remember that when we were having our initial talks to like decide what this panel would look like, you know, we were talking about though we all we got. And someone said the cavalry's not coming right like just drive it home to the cavalry's not coming. We are the cavalry right and so if there's things in your world that there's things in your community that you care about like you, there's people that want to support you there's a network of people that want to support you, but you are the person that needs to step up. So we so we invite you to join us in that fight, and Abby.
I guess I would, I would prompt people to think about leveraging their power. Right. and I think that, um, we all come to whatever we're doing with a lot that a lot of background and a lot of history. And I think that it's, you know, think about what assets you have what networks you have what connections you have what what what you have that might be leveraged like you might be part of an organization that you never even thought about that you could be best most effective trying to change that organization or trying to use that existing organization to do the thing that you're trying to do now, right, like, expand your analysis, and bring that with you as like as something as as options right because what we need is options we need flexibility we need power, and we need to think about ways of leveraging it so you know I would say that, you know, expand your thought.
Thank you. Absolutely. And so we have a we have a question from the audience, which is what are the next goals for the FAA and how does the EF f plan to evolve it so I guess I'll, I'll step in for that one. And so the goals of the ESA are certainly to continue to make sure that we're lifting up the work that's happening on the on the local level in those communities EF F is not you know there's there's no way that the FF would have the capacity to be able to to really engage and be aware of all the concerns and the things that are happening on on the local fights everywhere. And so what we've really been, what's one of the beauty of of the FFA from from the, from the vantage point that I have is the way that all of the groups support each other, and also the ways I like honestly like for free from an E FF point of view is that there are so many times when there are fights that we wouldn't be aware of that we should be engaging in and supporting if it wasn't for the fact that folks that are in those communities that are being most directly impacted by it. Let us know they reach out and say this is the thing that's happening right now and other ways that you can support, and, and, and similarly also you know the, a lot of times when there's local fights where the where there be that when we're fighting for community control over police surveillance, or we're trying to ban face surveillance, the local lawmakers you know we've been really successful in banning face surveillance in San Francisco and Oakland and Davis and Berkeley, and you know in supporting the fights that we've that we've seen with face surveillance passed in Boston and Somerville and Springfield and East Hampton North Hampton, but those in all of those areas, the fights and Friday right now is involved in a fight to ban face surveillance in in Chicago, and you know that as Freddy mentioned earlier like a lot of a lot of those in those fights, as much as, e FF is here and ready to support and step up and engage in those fights, those those lawmakers want to hear from their constituents they want to hear from people in their communities, and you are each of you, and not just the folks on the panel, but everyone that's that's listening to, you're the expert of the context within your community. And so we want to be able to so FF Rosario, we see moving forward is is an even stronger network. And I think one of the things that we're working toward is having it not be like a hub and spoke model where like BFF is at the center in like information flows in and out that way, but continuing to grow it more into a web and that's why it's so much of like the my I've so I'm so motivated to be lifting up the work that each of those groups are doing because I want, like all of the groups in the Alliance and and you know, for the light to grow in such a way that the groups are all sharing information and skills and resources with each other not simply with like e FF being, you know, a bottleneck or, or a or a conduit through which that information flows. So, yeah so that's that's an in the future I just more of that and more of a web and less of a hub and spoke. And the
question is our panels okay with being contacted directly with questions or problems, or should they actually work through the website and publish contact information. And I think that that probably I would imagine that that that really depends on on the, on the individual the context and the group, but if there's any, any other stuff that that y'all would add I'll let y'all answer that for yourself.
Yeah, I would just say I would hate to disappoint and say, contact me directly, just because I have a lot of emails, and I'm quite terrible at it, to be honest. So, I would say just contact our mailing list, we have info at Lucy Parsons labs Comm. Usually there's someone who can respond. But yeah, I would say that not and not to be like, I'm too busy but I don't want to tell you something that would be wrong so I would say just hit up our mailing list if you have questions.
And I would also say like for folks that keep in mind you know that a lot of the folks in the Alliance. These are our folks that are volunteering their time to support their community so capacity you know where's I can it's easy for me to say hey email Nasha DFS. org or email organizing a dfs.org, and you'll be able to get right in touch with me and the team at E FF I spend over 40 hours a week like I have the privilege of being that that that I'm supported by by the folks that are listening right now and everyone that supports e FF and being able to put my work into into this full time, but also to recognize recognizing that a lot of the folks that are doing this work in their communities are doing this in addition to, you know full time employment and other activism and work that they're doing so just being being compassionate and understanding that that is the content. Yeah.
And a lot of people doing the work don't want to be public facing either, so I would say that I don't have a problem with getting in front of a camera but a lot of people who are way more willing to help you or have more capacity, just won't be in front of the screen and that's actually a very important lesson about sort of organizing work. It's always the people behind the scenes who are really getting the shit done. So, so I would say definitely hit up, like the mailing list because more people will see it and probably people who have more capacity and who are closer to the actual work.
Absolutely. So we're coming with we've got our Two Minute Warning we're coming we're coming at the ends on the end of our time. I definitely want to leave an opportunity there's anything that any of the panelists want to like add before we close out I also want to remind folks also that you can find out more about the Electronic Frontier found the tronic frontier Alliance by going to ef f.org slash fight. That's the, the FAA page and find out if you if you're a part of a group in your community that wants to join, please do so and so also I'm going to open an opportunity for anyone to and on the panelists to add anything and also so to recognize the last question that we have here which is there any guidance on building community online when you can't meet in person.
I think for that last question just to very briefly said and I think that a couple of us have touched on it a lot already. Is that I think in this new world where people can't meet on person. Don't be having a social aspect to online meetings is so important for people because you know they're missing that anyway because we're all cooped up. And so, that can be a great way to do the things we were talking about building trust building relationship to get into, you know deeper topics so that's what I would say about a way to connecting online these days. Thank you.
Yeah, like I said earlier, gotta have fun. I love our twitch channel, even though it's very silly. And you know discord is great. There are a lot of good servers out there. Definitely just anything that makes people feel happy you know we got to, we just got to find that and we got to go look for it it's actually not the process to
also add make sure you're very clear and your code of conduct have a code of conduct online, and be clear in how you want people to communicate with each other and with you.
Absolutely. I'd be with the last word.
Keep you know yeah keep building networks, building, you know, build with each other like even I've noticed building small groups just with kind of mini affinity groups have signal chats or WhatsApp whatever platform people are using to keep to keep your networks building and thinking about different ways of connecting when we all get back into a physical space again.
Awesome. So thanks again to all of my panelists cyber collective Lucy Parsons lab black movement large project, and feature ADA and for everyone that's joining thanks for all the support that everyone that y'all have given throughout the last 30 years in supporting e FF and, and please reach out and there's a network of folks across the country that want to support you in advocating your community. Thank you.