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Wyandot

Ben Fogt43min

Ben Fogt

00:01

This is What's the Deal Grosse Ile, the podcast that explores the people places history and events that make Rosio unique. I'm your host Ben foakes. This episode goes back aways to before the time that Europeans settled the Great Lakes, but it also goes well into our future. We know about Wyandotte we know our neighbor to the northeast, we know Brownstown Township, a disjointed landmass that was turned into, Oh, so many towns and cities. I didn't know that the names are connected. Browns town is named for Adam Brown, a great leader of the Wyandotte nation. Who's settled this area. Those people inhabited both sides of the Detroit River and all the way up to the St. Clair River as well. My guest today is grand chief Ted roll of the wind out of Andhra damnation. Chief Ted leads a tribe of wind at that trace their ancestry through the Andrew Don reservation in s county of Ontario, just east of an Hertzberg and back all the way to Adam Brown, and beyond. The Wyandotte of Andrew Don are a part of an effort to reconcile our understanding of native history in America and Canada. It's a difficult and inspiring history that we all need to know about. Now our conversation is a bit long, so I'll stop there and have more to add at the end. Join me in welcoming grand chief Ted roll. Joining me today is Chief Ted roll of the Wyandotte of Anderton nation and I'm so glad I get to learn about the indigenous people of downriver and share it with What's the Deal. Grosse Ile seal. Thank you so much, chief Ted guac. You represent the Wyandotte of Amsterdam. I've heard of the Wyandotte, obviously, and the Andrew Don name is new to me. Can you tell me about the tribe and how it's connected with the rest of the wind dot?

Grand Chief Ted Roll

01:49

Well, like I was saying earlier, the wind dots, we call Gibraltar the little Washington DC of wind dots because at some time or another, they all came from your the wind at Detroit area. And during the late 1700s Some of the wind dads moved down to upper Sandusky, Ohio. Sure, and much they would. They're all family, and they would come back travel back and forth. So, you know, that's how the separation started was it was a friendly separation because, you know, they went down to Ohio, it just like me moving to Chicago because I found something better, right? I shouldn't use Chicago because I don't like Chicago. But that's how it started. And it maintains that friendship up until the war of 1812. That's when the division came threatened. The Division came because the upper Sandusky wind up, walk through the Americans, okay. And in the Detroit wind dots fought for the British. And it was at the end of the day, it was all about the land. It was who could be the best salesman to get you to fight for them on their side. Because they they promised that we would be able to keep our land. And at the end of the day and the end of the war. We did not get our land we got moved all over the place. The Detroit wind out started in Detroit moved down to the city of wind up and this as you know when once you cross over into the city limits it comes to Biddle Avenue, and that was major Biddle. Sure major Biddle played a major part in moving the wind outs from there down to Brownstown in Gibraltar, so I got curious one day and I thought, you know, I better find out how wind I got named winder. So I called my good buddy, George Guth, because he was a teacher over there and did a good history in about wind out history. I says, George, out of the city of wind I get name, why not? He says Well, Major Biddle come in and decided he'd liked this piece of property. He wanted that piece of property. So he moved the wind up down to Hmong Wagga in Brownstown. And somebody asked him, Well, what are we going to name this land? He goes, when they might wind up because wind outs were here, and that's how the name the city got named winder. Now the French added the T Okay, so we spelled our wind out with just one T one dot nation in Oklahoma and Kansas. Wind out nation and Oklahoma spells it with Te and I'm pretty sure the wind down of Kansas just used a one t okay. Not 100% Sure I'm thinking about that, but I think I'm correct. Sure, but

Ben Fogt

05:01

well so the Anderton nation is that is that the right the right term for it are the wind dots of Oklahoma and Kansas, the same nation or you separate the

Grand Chief Ted Roll

05:12

wind that underdone over in Canada, there was a place called the Amsterdam reserve. And now, the only people that lived on air were the wind docks. So it's the wind at reserve, right out of Anderson. So in the late 1900s or early 2000s, we changed our name to the wind out of Anderton. But from 1972 When we became incorporated with the state, we got our corporation papers. It states wind x. And so we changed it to wine out of Amsterdam to honor our ancestors, but the wine dot nation, the Kansas wine dots, all came out of Upper St moved down, they they moved from here, down there to upper Sandusky, and they were the last tribe to be removed in 1843. to Kansas, okay, okay.

Ben Fogt

06:10

So even the ones for the Americans got moved.

Grand Chief Ted Roll

06:13

Yes. And so they did do a little battle against each other in the War of 1812. Not much. But I think the clan mothers stopped that part meant, you know, you're fighting your own brother renders, you know, your cousins. So when the wind gets removed from upper Sandusky, they went to Kansas, they were the last tribe to be moved. And when they got there, they were promised 140,000 acres, which didn't come about they didn't have it that wasn't there. And so they took care of the Celicas and the Delaware's in Ohio. So when they got to Kansas, the Senecas in the Delaware's took care of the wind out. And so they bought the wind that the Ohio wind out bought 36 blocks from the Senecas. And then the Senate has given them an extra three. And then in 1857, there was another split in the wind dots, and some of them stayed in Kansas, and some of them got removed to what is now known as wind out of Oklahoma, and about 200 families went down there in 1857. As you read through history, all the tribes were split because of the wars, because the British, or the Americans or the French were whoever had the biggest Line, Column used car salesman, that they would fight for them. Because if we win the battle, you get to keep your property. It was all about land. Sure. And so for the Kansas people that stayed there they had, the deal was that if you give up your Indian status, you get to keep your land. There's a lot of history of wind outs in Kansas, on both sides of Kansas City, Kansas and Kansas City, Missouri. It wasn't until the wind dots got there that the Nebraska territory became a territory because it was the walker. I think it was John Walker. I know the last name was Walker gave got involved in the politics of the Nebraska territory. And he's the one that straightened it all out and became the first territorial governor of the Nebraska territory. And he was adopted by Adam Brown.

Ben Fogt

08:44

Okay. Adam Brown, Adam Brown comes up a lot when we talk about the way and diet do you want to talk about him and, and how he's, you know, we use his name a lot around here in the Brownstown Township, obviously. But talk about Adam Brown,

Grand Chief Ted Roll

08:59

Adam Brown, was captured by the wind dots in a war down in Virginia. And he was either nine years old or 12 years old depends on what history book you read. And he was they had lost a brave in the battle. And so they would, if they could capture somebody to take that brace place. That's what the wind apps would do. So they captured Adam Brown, and brought him back here to Michigan and got adopted into the wind dots, married of wind out woman, and then they started having kids and then the Brown family started to grow. And so, but Adam Brown never left Detroit. He did not. He well, he wasn't around here for the Removal Act and he died in 1823 or four. And so, but he had sons and daughters. Nancy Grace Darrell brown played a big part in the slave slavery movement in Kansas City, because they would bring the slaves from the other side of the Missouri River over to this side of the river and storm in the church, and then they would let them release them. And they go to Quinn, Darrow, Kansas, and there was all kinds of caves, and they would escape through the cage down to the other river and be free, they would free them. And so the Civil War come into play it split the tribe, again, because there was some wind ups that wanted slaves and other one dads didn't think that was right, they didn't want slaves. So the story goes that they burnt the church that was freeing the slaves, they told him to get your your history and everything out of that church, because we're burning your church down, and they burn it down. And then they move the church two blocks over and rebuilt it from the stuff that was left over from the Burke church. But there's a library across the street, or next right next to the cemetery, the wind out cemetery is, has a national marker on it. And the upstairs of the wind out. Kansas Library is all about Indian history. And you got to know somebody to get up there to do your research, because well is well protected.

Ben Fogt

11:32

Well, so with Adam Brown, you've got a project going on here in with the Indian nation that has, it's called the six points village project. And that's down in Gibraltar. And it's a property that was once owned by Adam Brown, right?

Grand Chief Ted Roll

11:47

That is correct a lot 355 and 354. And 355 cuts across the north east corner of six points. And then Walker has property on the on the river side. So

Ben Fogt

12:06

yeah, what's gonna go in at the village?

Grand Chief Ted Roll

12:09

Well, right now, we're working with the University of Michigan. And we're working with John Hartig. They are the students are looking at the climate control on the the water level of Lake Erie. And seeing how, why it's up and down the way it is, because when it goes up, we're in tough shape. When it's down, we're in good shape. A couple of years ago, we were filing for a grant to get things started. And it was with the herb Lumber Company, and a couple of other people. Two years in a row. We almost got the grant, we just didn't hit the board's hot point. There was some other people that needed the money more than we did. And they got it and they apologize. I mean, I thought when they met we we had a meeting with them. And they went down and we walked the property. They thought and they all thought wow, this is a great idea. Great, great project. And I thought, you know, wow, we're gonna get this. And at the last minute, we didn't get it. At two years in a row. We did that. So then I made a trip to Lansing. The second chief at the time was Darcy tamariu. M and I were invited to Lansing to come down on the House floor for recognition. Every every state representative gets to bring somebody in during the their Turman office and give them recognition on the House floor. And so that's first time I've been in Atlanta and I lived in or the Capitol building. Yeah. So Tara Clemente, who is a tribal member, took us there, and we're sitting in the Senate, and they were working on a bill called the iron belt trail. And so I'm sitting next to this guy, and we started chit chatting back and forth. And I asked him what he was doing here. And he asked me what I was doing here, and come to find out, he was ahead of the iron belt tour. Oh, and so we exchanged business cards. And I said, we're gonna be talking, I said, you know, we got a project that you might be interested in and taking a look at. And so and then as we got recognized on the House floor, a lot of people that I know downriver, and our reps came over and talked and, and I get to meet the Speaker of the House. And so we're walking back to Kara's office, and who am I walking next to the guy from the iron belt tour, and started a conversation again, and so on. I went back to Lansing, Kara said, Well, you need, I got a meeting with these two people that are doing projects down around Flat Rock in Gibraltar in Trenton. And one was working on the mountain to do a canoe, make the here and river be able to go from Ann Arbor to Lake Erie on a canoe on the hearing river. And so the person the other person at the meeting was Guess Who? The guy from the iron belt tour.

Ben Fogt

15:36

So I've had my steering people together, don't doesn't it?

Grand Chief Ted Roll

15:39

Yeah. So we're sitting at the table, and we're having this discussion. And he pulls out this big brochure, the iron belt tour, and I'm going, Hey, see that spot right there? And he goes, Yeah, I said, that's where six points in. He says, You got to be kidding me. That's it. Now. This is we're right there. The iron belt tour for some ungodly reason comes through Flat Rock, down here to the drive, gets on Woodruff Road, Woodruff road to West Jefferson, that makes a slight jog on West Jefferson, and makes it right at the traffic light and goes down south Gibraltar road and guess we're six points is that right there? Right there. And so. So again, we start talking about what we're doing. And he says, Well, anytime that you need a letter of recommendation for a grant or anything, you let me know, and I'll write you a letter. That's okay. Cool.

Ben Fogt

16:31

And that that iron bill, that's the that's a bike trail that goes quite a ways across.

Grand Chief Ted Roll

16:39

Oh, it it goes around the whole state of Michigan and up into the up. Yeah. follows the shoreline. And for some odd reason, it doesn't come down as far as Monroe. Okay. Not yet. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's interesting to meet all these people. Then I go back up to Lansing again. And Susan White is now the refuge director at the time, and I called her up and I said, about going up to Lansing with me in being moral support, and helped me with this. And she said, Sure. So she called me up. She goes, Well, we have I have to be up to Nancy on Tuesday, I'll just spend the night you pick me up at the hotel, and then we'll go to the meeting. So we sat down with now we're sitting down with all the DNR people that the DNR trust. That was an interesting meeting. We talked at the table and meeting was adjourned. And it continued out in the hallway. And in the meantime, I said, Why don't you come down and tour and see what we got. And so the head of the DNR Trust Fund, and the second person in charge, made a special trip down to Gibraltar and we walked the property. I told John, I said you better bring some boots because we're going to get wet. Yeah. And so we've got knee high boots on and we're walking through the property. And he goes, this is a nice piece of property. But you know, you look at things and look at a vision and you want to see it happen. And you have to keep an eye on your vision and keep going out there. And I mean, when I left work at from the steel mill, right, I drove right by that piece of property every day. And sometimes there was days that I needed to go home. Before I get home. I needed to walk the trails to clear my mind, because it was one of those days. And one of the one of the stories that I have is that after the wine that nation bought the property there tipo officer and her dad came into town and she wanted to walk six points. So we, me and another elder Tom Lawlor from Trenton. We walked the property with Sherry and her dad, Ted, another Ted onboard look out for both characters. We're we're back there. And there's a great big circle back there. And it's all these big cottonwood trees. And it was they had all the leaves on it. It wasn't fall yet. So we were offering tobacco and Santa prayer. And I looked up and I'm looking around at all these trees. And there was no wind whatsoever moving anywhere on that property or the area and the middle of all these big trees, the leaves were waving. And I said, Sherry, she goes I see it just keep doing what you're doing. Just keep sent. And there was an eagle flying over us at the same time. Wow. And I said well, I guess we're standing in the right place. Because what what other science could you have that there's ancestors here, and there's the eagle that flies over. You know, the Eagles are coming back into this area. And there was it seemed like every time we did something out there that year, the eagles were flying over us.

Speaker 1

20:18

Sure. So that's really special. Yeah.

Grand Chief Ted Roll

20:22

Yeah. I mean, it's in right down not too far from six points. You got Lake Erie, Metropark. And then you got the hawkwatch. There September. And they come right over six points, because we're probably the way the bird flies you're about a mile away.

Ben Fogt

20:40

Right. Yeah, this whole region is a great crossroads for nature, that's for sure. And so I can see why why the wind would would settle here to great fishing, you know, especially before industrialization happened, and all the birds that come through, it's just a special place. Yeah.

Grand Chief Ted Roll

20:57

Well, yeah. Industrial and industrial. What? What's that word? You said? Industrial industrialization?

Ben Fogt

21:01

Yeah.

Grand Chief Ted Roll

21:02

Yeah. Really killed like URI? Yeah. Look at all the steel mills dumping into it. Yeah. Great Lakes. Yeah. Rouge steel, or Ford Motor Company, steel mill down the Rouge river that dumped right into Lake Erie, and the Detroit River and you had class steel, and Chrysler plant. Monsanto, Detroit, Edison

Ben Fogt

21:26

BASF. took a beating. Yeah. But it looks like we're getting better. So we're hoping that we can continue that that progress. So for six points, or is there a plan for events or activities once once things are developed the way that that you want?

Grand Chief Ted Roll

21:42

Yeah, you know, like I told you earlier that I've, I've been around I've seen was just on a wild rice 16 Day wild rice tour up in Minnesota, Trooper Peninsula in Wisconsin. And we stopped at this, we had a couple of days to kill. And so we went sightseeing. And we went to Nashville, and national park, but a state park that had a dam or waterfall in it. And guess what? They had a water. Boardwalk in it. You know? And what's the best? Thank God for cell phones? It takes pictures. Yeah. There were spots that you could go down the steps and go down and walk around and and I was underneath the the boardwalk taking pictures and taking all kinds of ankle pictures and the steps and getting all kinds of ideas. And in the lady that was with me on the trip. She says, What are you doing, I suppose I'm checking this app because we got to build a boardwalk on six points. And this looks like be the ideal framework to do this. But it's it's a great plan. It's it's just that we keep coming up short. Since we are not a regularly recognized tribe at this time. And wind out of Oklahoma omit they are a federally recognized tribe. And so in dealing with the DNR, they were going to give us a grant, but are being an auto I want to explain this. We you have inkind we have different ways of matching the grant. The grant was for $300,000 or $350,000. And you have we had the match half of that and we are half could be any money that we spent on appraisals, surveys, any improvement we did to the land, man hours or inkind hours, we that counted towards our half of the money. Since it was a DNR grant, they can only deal with federal recognized tribes. Okay, so John Mays, he liked what we're doing and the spot it was in. And so he worked on getting the Wyandotte Nation of Oklahoma the opportunity to file for a state grant, a Michigan grant, because they own property in Michigan because they owned it. So they would have to be the fiduciary. The only challenge to that is Chief Billy, his tribe would have to come up with the other 170,000 or $175,000 in cash. And he said, No, that's not going to work. He goes, No. He says, I have to watch what I do here. I can't be you know, he says I got your back. But there's certain things I can do and certain things I can't do. Sure. And I totally understand that. And I said well, what happens if I got the money? and laid it on your desk to cover your half. Would you do it? And and he says, You're you're tempting me, but I don't know if I could still do that. Yeah. Because their their accounting system has to be very, because they get, you know, on the federal government keeps an eye on the federal tribes, they get audited. So he's got to protect his tribe. And I totally understand that.

Ben Fogt

25:29

So with with your efforts there, are there ways for regular folks to do fundraisers? Are there other ways to contribute to the cons?

Grand Chief Ted Roll

25:36

Yeah, we haven't come up with the big fundraising program yet we do it through all this, we also have our Michigan gaming license, okay. So we can go into poker rooms, and we can run raffles. And that helps put money into the general or we have to keep it separated, we have a fundraising account, and we have a millionaire party account, we have to keep it separated. So keep everybody. That's the rules of the game. Sure. But we can we can use those things that for special projects. And we have a scholarship program, that for the kids graduating from high school, we give them a $500 gift to get started, they have to show us they have to be a member in good standing, they have to show us their diploma, they have to show us that they got their classes set up. And they're ready to go to school and we give them a $500 check to get started. So when we run the raffles, we can transfer money from the fundraiser account over there, we can write checks out of the fundraiser account to cover that $500 Because it's it's a special project, it covers educators. Sure. So, you know, there's ways to make money, but there's ways that you have to spend it too,

Ben Fogt

27:05

right. Following the rules, gets up gets complicated there. Since this is a podcast about guru seal, I know that that wind up occupied the islands in between the river because you know, there was no national border, you know, by by indigenous people. So Grosse Ile would have had wind that living on it. Are you aware of any villages or anything that that might have been on gracile? Back before the Macomb brothers?

Grand Chief Ted Roll

27:33

Well, honestly, I can say, No, I don't think there was a village, but I know that there was a lot of wind borne on growing the yolk, and that's where my dad was born. Yeah, his siblings were born and grow zeal. If you run across the name, Granda Waro. Not, there's no rolls that live over there. But Granda and world. There's a lot of those people over on growth zeal. So there is wind at history over there. But you also have to remember too, that when we came back over across the river, that we had to watch out for the Indian boarding schools. Oh, sure. So when my dad and his siblings were all born, my grandmother didn't raise them as wind dots. They raised them as white people. They knew they were wind up, but they weren't allowed to speak the language, practice tradition or culture because the boarding schools, the government would come in and take the kids and change their clothing, cut their hair, and they weren't allowed to practice any of their traditions or culture or language. So the theme of the boarding school was to kill the Indian to save the man. And so luckily, my dad and his siblings never went to the boarding school. I don't think we had too many people. We had a couple of families in the, in the tribe today. Remember, almost going, going. The elders almost had to go to the boarding school, but they were hidden by the nuns. They knew that the government was coming to that school to see who was native and they knew this one family were natives and they they went to those classes and they put him in special rooms where they couldn't find him. So yeah,

Ben Fogt

29:37

we talked we talked about how the and what that's the turn of the century. That's that's like late 1800s, early 1900s.

Grand Chief Ted Roll

29:45

Yeah, in the 1900s. I mean, as far as night teen sometime in the 1970s is when the boarding schools started, stopped taking kids out of the houses.

Speaker 1

29:57

Wow. That's not so Well, yeah,

Grand Chief Ted Roll

30:01

it's yeah, it's not. It's somewhere in the 1970s 1980s. But I think it was the 1970s that the, the boarding schools stopped. I mean, you have the boarding school up at Saginaw chips, you know, the boarding school. There's a, there was a boarding school for spring rails that we found out. And then there was a boarding school at Harbor, Harbor Springs up in Traverse City and cow calf up there, up by Traverse City, between Traverse City and the bridge. Okay. Arbor Harbor Town, I think it's called or Harbor Springs. There was a boarding school there, there was a school at Springwell that we just found out about St. Anne's Church in Detroit and the assumption church, there was there is there was a connection there. And then up in the up in Lake Superior where that little peninsula goes out into Lake Superior. The mining town, there was a orphanage slash boarding school there. So here at the battlefield, we have many irons in the fire. We're talking about how to build can elm bark canoes, dugout canoes, baskets out of elm bark, and birch bark, or we're talking about the sturgeon. We're talking about the removal, we're talking about the boarding schools we're gonna have, we're gonna have films explaining, making people aware and, and hopefully, understanding why native people are native native people had to survive. And

Ben Fogt

32:01

that's an important resource. I think, I didn't realize until until we talked that the River Raisin National Battlefield Park has so much information about Native peoples and that culture. So that's good to know

Grand Chief Ted Roll

32:17

about have my personal invitation to come down here. And I will walk you through everything that we're we're doing, and I'll take you back into the education center that we're working on right now to make people aware, and understand the native side of the story. And we're gonna tell both sides that, you know, it's a timeline when you walk in, it's pre contact, we got a, we got a long house that is 25 feet wide, 50 feet long and 20 feet high. And it's made just like the long houses back then the Potawatomi and wind dots, built long houses, the wind adds would call them long houses, and the Potawatomi call them bark houses. So we have a lot of things here that people don't realize how things are done today, how they got started. Sure, sure. Yeah, I mean, we even have we even have quarterly roads set up in here. That you know, we're West Jefferson crosses over the here and river. Sure. Well, at the corduroy road is still underneath West Jefferson. Oh, wow. The logs when the water when the bathtub, I call it the bathtub when the bathtub moves to Cleveland and buffalo, Lake Erie moved all that way. Yeah, the logs are still underneath that road.

Unknown Speaker

33:59

Oh, wow.

Grand Chief Ted Roll

34:02

Yeah, you can see them.

Ben Fogt

34:03

Yeah. And when we talked with rusty in in the episode that we talked about the the battle that was back in January, I think I talked to him. The Yeah, we talked about that and the great black swamp and how how that influenced, you know, migration patterns and all that. So

Grand Chief Ted Roll

34:21

yeah, you when you come down West Jefferson, Rusty in, in Bill saw did a thing on the first road in Michigan, and that's west Jefferson, right? In West Jefferson. And then many names. It's Dixie Highway up here, or down here. And it turns into, it used to be us turnpike and and part of it was called the US Turnpike. And then once once you get closer to Brownstown, it was called River Road. And then they decided to change the name and put West Jefferson all the way through But it changed when it gets up here. It's Dixie Highway. Sure. Or down here in Monroe gets to Dixie Highway. And that takes you all the way down through Toledo. And all the way down to Dayton, Ohio. Yeah. Hmm. But guess what? That's not taught in schools?

Ben Fogt

35:18

That's right. That's right. Yeah, I think I think we've covered everything here. I'm definitely going to encourage everybody to go and especially go down to the battlefield and see the stuff that's there and anything we can do to support the building of six points. I think I think a lot of folks at least on grassy hill are going to be also supportive of that. So one thing I asked at the end of my conversations for the podcast is is for a wish. Typically, it's a wish for for grassy hill, the island or the downriver area, sometimes it's the ecosystems or just you know, the community in general. A couple weeks ago, one of one of the guests was making a wish for the Lake Sturgeon on their behalf. So I don't know if we haven't talked about a wish. But if you had a wish, that you could make happen, what would it be?

Grand Chief Ted Roll

36:08

Wow. I would say the development of six points because you have a battle that happened near there, you have a wind out village there, you have a lot of history that people aren't aware of. And I and I honestly believe that if we can get six points built, you know, you ever remember that movie, build it and they will come? Sure, sure Field of Dreams, I'll think that we could, if we get it built the way I think it should be built or we think it should be built that it tells we share the story. Okay, yeah, we share the story of the wine dots. We share the story of the battle, we share the story of the city of Gibraltar, we share different things that it won't be one dimensional. When it come there, you're going to give you will get a history lesson and Morgan here at the battlefield, I've learned that there's a process, there's a procedure, and you got to to lead people through all these steps. And I think we're doing that and, and to tell the story. I know I was up in St. Agnes and there's a Ojibwe museum up there in a walk outside of the museum. And here's these pictures of the clans in explaining the Bear Clan, the deer clan. There's five turtle plans. The wolf clan in people don't know about those. And if you could put a historical sign up and a picture and reading of you don't need to go into a long detail. You just need to wet their whistle. Right and give them the basics of why your why is a deer claim and why are there a turtle clans and explain the different clans system? Because all the tribes have a clan. And I belong to the spotted Turtle Clan. And they it's called awareness and understanding because it's not taught in schools. Sure. And that would be my wish. I think that the city city of Gibraltar would be a great place to start this because that's where Adam wrong was if if you look in the downriver area, you see Brownstown spread all over the place. Right. And there's not a monument honoring demand anywhere. Sure. And so one of my dreams is to have him honored along with the chiefs of the War of 1812 that led the battle. Sure. They were all brothers, one way or no, most of them are all brothers. You know, people don't understand it. Even our tribal nation has a brief education on our history. But they don't have the full story. I don't think well, you know, we're working on that for the narrative for federal recognition, because that's what we have to do. Right. And it it takes a lot of a lot of reading a lot of history. And you'd have to end there's like I said, it's like a wagon wheel with a lot of spokes. And somewhere along the line, you got to connect all the spokes together to tell the story.

Ben Fogt

39:42

Absolutely. And I think you know, along with that there's even a greater wheel there because the the wildlife refuge having the the gateway Yeah, the refuge gateway there and then Great Lakes Metro Park has a great, great system of programs there. sitting into Latin.

Grand Chief Ted Roll

40:02

And we're all connected. And, you know, I deal with the refuge, John heartache and, and Susan White and now it's very duchaine For now, the Metro park system. I know Kevin and Paul and loneliness has walked down to a better job. And then you got the battlefield down. Right. Right. You know, when, when I was growing up, I didn't know any of this.

Ben Fogt

40:29

Sure. And so this is gonna be great, you know, a great corridor of, of learning from both cultural and natural perspectives. And, and I think that's really amazing. So well, I want to thank you, chief Ted, I'm so glad we could talk today, I want you to know, I appreciate you. And I appreciate any opportunity to gain gain more understanding of the culture that was here so long ago, and that you're helping to preserve and grow, for that matter. There's a whole lot more depth and diversity than we can normally see around us just by you know, driving quickly by. And so I'm so glad you were able to share that with me today.

Grand Chief Ted Roll

41:10

I appreciate the opportunity to do that. And I thank you very much. And the word for thank you in wind that is me. Great.

Ben Fogt

41:19

Thank you so much.

Grand Chief Ted Roll

41:20

Thank you.

Ben Fogt

41:21

This conversation will be ongoing for me. And I hope you'll join it to sheaf Ted mentions working at the River Raisin National Battlefield Park in Monroe. Now I stopped in and got that tour that he talked about. It's not quite ready yet, but there's a lot to see. And when it's done, there will be actual buildings that represent centuries of culture in a way I've certainly never seen before. If you visit and see chief Ted arrestee, Davis mentioned the podcast and maybe they'll let you take a look backstage. The battlefield also has some films and books that focus on the Wyandotte and other tribes of Michigan. And they have a special book they published to give a driving tour of the sights were important events of war of of the War of 1812. And really the acceleration of America's fight with indigenous people occurred. Its Native American History Month. And I didn't produce this episode to make an alternative Thanksgiving story, or to have a token native people episode. I really think that the story of how so many people were displaced often violently is very important. With the resources that the River Raisin Park and the Wyandotte have Andrew Diane share tells the story in a very new way at least to me. They acknowledge that atrocities were committed by every party involved. They map out a way forward for us to learn about how we can see now as incredible mistakes sometimes a folly, sometimes ignorance, and sometimes just blatant abuse. And then they reconcile that and they try to help all sides recover things that we all lost in the process. This isn't the only story like this, but it is one and I know my life is better for trying to learn from it. If you want to take that journey with me stop in at the battlefield and look around. Get yourself a copy of the Journey to Understanding at the desk for $10 and let's take that first step. What's the Deal Grosse Ile is produced and edited by me Ben fote For folk Media Productions. See the Episode notes for links credits and ways to listen comment and share. And as always, thank you for listening to What's the Deal Grosse Ile

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