Hello, and welcome back to so you got to lifestyle degree. Where are your hosts, Lisa and Frieda to life sigh undergrad students trying to navigate our future careers. This is Episode Seven. And we're talking to Talia aisyah about her position as a high school math teacher. How you doing Frieda? Generally? Pretty good, but I've definitely had an intense last two weeks. Oh, yeah. Tell me about it. Yeah. So I'm just continuously surprised at how much you can get done under pressure. Isn't there that song that kind of goes like that? Under pressure? Oh, yeah. That's the Queen song. Yeah. Oh, interesting. My categorise that as some kind of new agey pop song, but tell me, so what have you been getting done? Under Pressure your little cooker? Well, yeah, I had a math midterm last weekend, basically. And I basically learned, like, two months worth of calculus. Two weeks, I feel like I have less ability than the average person to do things in a short period of time. Like, I feel like I literally couldn't do that. So like, Yeah, but you're also great at like, you know, dealing with that and scheduling things early and getting them actually done. That's true, perhaps. Yeah. And I remember like, when we were talking about this, I kept asking you about this and you're like, Okay, I think I just have a good ability to like, what I do procrastinate, procrastinate productively. And so yeah, I think this semester, it's not necessarily that my overall procrastination has reduced, but I think I've gotten so much better. I'm procrastinating reductively. Besides my math, I got pretty much everything else done. So I just like could dedicate basically doing math. So yeah, I mean, it's it's improvement. I don't we're definitely not there yet. But you know, but yeah, like, last night, I was gonna end in my computer science assignment for this week. And then I ended up 30 minutes before the deadline, deleting the script. It was really bad. Yeah. And then I was like, with my friend, and I like freaked out in front of him, which was a little bit embarrassing. But yeah, you know, we're good now. So hopefully, well, you know, first and peace to the first edition of free does command line script. Yeah. And yeah, well wishes to the second edition. Yeah, how's your week when, I mean, as usual, I have less of a general life update. And more of just a cute little anecdote, I feel like the listeners over time are going to get more and more invested in your actual life, in terms of what's going on bi weekly in your world. Whereas for me, their impression of me is just going to be a random jumble of like, weird things I've done in squirrel facts. And so to add on to that, I was in my room, and I live at home, by the way Mississauga, so suburban house. And I was just doing my work it and like in front of my desk is like, on my windows. And then it kind of looked up a little and lo and behold, there is a fluffy grey squirrel. Like, right in my line of view on our roof. And I was looking at him and I was like, What are you doing here, buddy? This is this is too much. Like, I know, you're like colonising the urban habitats. There is a limit to this. And I watched his little pause, like consider trying to like jump to the tree next to our roof. And then he kind of scurried closer to me, and I was like, Oh my God, is he gonna do it? Is it gonna run right past my window, but I think he was following the trail of the storm system like the storm drain. And so he kind of scuttled off to the side of the house and out of my sight, but that was just I never thought they could go on roofs but um, piers they are continuing to increase their abilities. So yeah, that was probably the most interesting thing about my way. I am super excited to talk to Talia though. Yeah, it's kind of weird calling her Talia like all your teachers by their first name. Why is super weird. I mean, literally back there. I almost said Miss aisyah. But yeah, for the listeners, Talia. Miss Lisa was my grade 11 biology teacher at White Oak secondary school. She was working there at the time. And I really loved all my high school teachers at white oaks including her so yeah, that's that's kind of how we were able to interview her. You wanted to go do that right now? Yeah, let's get into it. Tell you is currently a math teacher at Abbey Park High School. She completed her undergraduate degree in biochemistry and genetics at Western University in London, Ontario. After that she did a master's degree at McMaster University where she investigated the epigenetic regulation of telomeres. Following this she obtained her Bachelor of Education from the University of Toronto and became a licenced Ontario teacher. Thank you for joining us today. teleo. Thank you for having me. So to kick things off, the first thing we wanted to ask you was if you could just give us a brief overview of what you're doing is maybe what kinds of subjects you teach, and kind of the grade levels you interact with.
So I am able to teach grades, I think it's seven through 12. But I teach it high school high school. So I teach grades nine to 12. For the past number of years, I've mostly taught math, but I have taught a fair number of science courses in the past. So I've taught grade 11 and 12, chemistry, grade nine science grade 10, Applied Science, and IB, biology. And since then, I've mostly taught grade nine and 10 math. And then this year, I started teaching grade 12. Math.
Yeah, we usually like to ask our guests like, what is the average day of work look like for you? We've probably all been to high school. So we are most familiar with? Yeah, what is your What does your day look like? What does your week look like?
So everybody says they've been to high school, and they know what High School looks like, what a teacher does. And let me tell you, it's not what you expect. Going into this drop, I thought I knew exactly what I was getting myself into. And boy was I in for an awakening. So school hours are like 810, to 245. And I typically get to school at around 630. And I leave at 334. So it's a longer day than most people anticipate. But I love my job. So I'm happy to put the hours in. So I get to work early. And because I teach math students need lots of extra support. So I usually run math tutorials in the morning before school starts. And that's the part of my job that I absolutely love, because I get to interact one on one with the students. And I get to see their progression and development in math and logical reasoning over the course of the semester. So I get there early, but I do it because I love it. And I want to help my students and I actually get to watch them grow in that period. So a typical school day is five periods. And teachers a full time teacher teaches three out of five periods a day. So we get one lunch and one prep period. And everybody knows what that looks like. So when you're in the classroom, I usually do about a 4045 minute lesson. And then there's time for students to work on some homework. But the interaction level isn't the same as it is in the morning with the tutorial. So during my lunch period, because I teach math and students need a lot of extra support. We have math health, again, so that our math teachers run a math clinic. And we typically rotate through that we work one on one with everybody's students. But oftentimes math clinic is crazy busy. So more than one teacher is in there helping the students with their homework. Then we have our prep period. And this is time where I get to prepare for my classes to some photocopying, get some marketing done, call parents speak to guidance about students that are struggling and how we can better support them. And there's lots of other things that gets done behind the scenes. And we do that during prep and or after school.
Okay, that sounds like a busy busy day. Do you actually feel like your prep periods are like enough to get through all the things that you just listed that you do during a prep period,
I would say more time would always be appreciated. We work we don't work a nine to five jobs. So as teachers, we are professionals and we do carry homework and we have to do work outside of the classroom. And so I feel that it's our responsibility to spend time either before school or after school or on weekends marking, getting ready for class like I spend my summers getting ready if I teach a new course. So for example, this year, I'm teaching Ray 12 maths so I spent my summer preparing my lesson notes and doing all the homework and making sure I was up to date on my content and understanding how I should deliver the material. So I have to do work outside of school hours. But that's my job. I'm a professional, I should have to do work outside of my hours during COVID. And the pandemic. I think teachers are overworked because the school day is not typical. Some teachers are teaching five hours of class in a nine week period. And it's crazy, but during a regular non pandemic school year, there's homework involved, but it's manageable.
Hmm, yeah, I understand what you mean because I'm working as a TA right now for one mo three biology when I'm oh three, one of the first year biology courses for life side. And they give you you did that you are what am I when I go through ta I think so that's the lab based course. Right? No, it's not. That was what that was when I oh three. Oh, nevermind. Yeah, no, but I kind of want to do that one too. But yeah, I'm a TA for when I'm a three and they give you prep time. They give you about 30 minutes of prep time for each week for each tutorial. And yeah, it's it's definitely not enough time. So usually you end up spending a bit more but again, it's like I don't mind because I want to give a good tutorial for the students.
It's enough time if you do the bare minimum but if you want to go on and do the best job you can is probably not
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I think that's something I wanted to touch base. More as well like the idea that 35 hour a 35 Hour Work Week is enough to do the job. But it's not enough if you want to really excel at the job. But we can, we can touch, we can touch a bit on that. bit more on that later. Right now, you mentioned that you are primarily a math teacher, and that you've taught some science courses. But your background in terms of your bachelor's and your master's is actually in biology. So I was wondering if you could give us a bit of insight into why you decided to teach math instead of biology if it had anything to do with your own passions as a teacher, or maybe if it was more in relation to the demand for jobs.
So when I graduated Teacher's College, my two teachables for biology and chemistry. And then I was worried at the time that I was would not be able to get job teaching science. So that summer, I did an additional course to allow me to teach math. I got hired initially as a science teacher in the Halton District School Board, and I taught science at the beginning of my career, but I found it boring I students came in, they would do the lab, they understood the material, they just had to go home and memorise it. And there wasn't a lot of one on one interaction with my students. And I didn't feel that I got to know my students in the way that I wanted to. So after I did my master's degree actually took a year off work. And I did a lot of tutoring. And most of the tutoring I did was math based tutoring. And that was when I spent time with students, and I got to know who they were as learners and what they wanted to do in life. And I developed personal relationships with my students. So I figured at that time, maybe I could get into math, students need lots of additional support with math, and I would have better relationships with my students. And that was what was important to me as a teacher, it wasn't necessarily about delivering content, but building relationships with my students. So the first year I taught math, I think it was grade nine, academic math. The students in my class were incredibly weak. And that's when I developed a passion to set up morning tutorial sessions to help my students obtain provincial standards on EQ, eo and to excel in math and pre prepared for grade 10 math. And it was during that time where I was able to develop relationships with students, watch them grow, help them. And I felt that sense of reward at the end of the semester that I had really allowed a student to progress through grade nine math, and I watched the student come into grade nine, with very few numeracy skills, and then complete grade nine. And I was so amazed as to the amount of effort that they had put in and impressed with their ability to grow as a student and develop the skills over time. And that's really where my passion for math started. And so it's not that I love to teach math, as much as I love to watch the students grow.
Yeah, that's a really good response. Yeah, for sure. And I think like being on the other side of that, like having had great math teachers and a great high school math experience, like it definitely I feel like pays off, at least for me. Yeah. So digging a little bit more into like, you know, you said that you were worried about getting a job. And so like, you kind of added the skill side of teaching math, probing more on that, how do you feel about like, you know, the demand for teachers and like getting hired and all that stuff in Canada and Ontario, specifically,
I'm not I'm not sure I'm really aware as to what the hiring situation is like, like when I graduate. There were what they said were very few jobs for teachers. I graduated in June, and I was put on a supply list in October, November, and I landed my first job in February of the year I graduated. So I think as long as you push and you have the credentials, and you fight for the jobs, they're out there, but you have to visit the schools, you have to interact with the principals, you have to fight you have to want to teach and your passion has to come through before the job gets posted so that people know who you are. But I don't know that that's interesting.
I mean, I've definitely heard that it depends on what subject you want to teach. I've heard that there are more positions available for math and physics teachers, as opposed to something like English do know if that's true.
I actually don't know what the job situation is like, like I I've heard that also that there is a demand for math teachers. I think there's also a demand for diversity in education. So they're looking for people of colour, LGBTQ, those types of teachers to reflect the different diversities in the classroom.
But I don't know nice when you say you really have to push for it. And you really have to show your passion and meet the principal. What does that look like in a more like quantitative checklist kind of sense.
So I guess when I graduated teachers college, I was determined and motivated to get a job teaching and I have a passion to help students and so I really wanted to go down that pathway. I visited all of the schools and halten I brought my resume, I introduced myself to all the principles, I asked people to give me mock interviews, I volunteered in classrooms, I sat in with teachers, I watched them teach, I gave extra help it to students in the morning, and at lunch, even though I wasn't an employee with the board, I went through the process to get a criminal record track to be able to do that. So I really pushed to get my face and my name out into the community in which I wanted to work. I don't know if that was helpful. I can only
do one data point so
well, and I don't know what other people were doing to get jobs at the time. Right. I know, the job market was tough when I applied. And I feel that I got lucky. But I also put in a lot of work and a lot of hours and time, which didn't earn me any money in hopes to actually obtain a job at some point.
Right. And I guess that kind of ties in well into the next thing that we wanted to talk about, because you mentioned, I think several times now that you were really passionate about helping students and especially through your tutoring work, you found that you enjoy helping students one on one. So when you initially went into your undergraduate degree, you were studying biochem, and genetics kind of at that time, what were you envisioning for your future career and we're kind of going to walk through your step process from that point to where you are now.
Okay, so after undergrad, so during undergrad, I really enjoyed the epi genetic portion of my studies. At the time epi genetics was novel, people were just starting to learn about it, they were learning about how the DNA itself doesn't actually allow someone to express their genes or make someone who they were, but rather, there were additional marks on your DNA that allowed people to express genes and allow people to be unique in their own ways. So that was just coming out. And that was the leading research at the time. At that time, I figured that I always wanted to go into academia. And I wanted to be a university lecturer, I didn't know if I wanted to do the research component. But I thought that I could see myself teaching students about epi genetics. And I thought that was really interesting. And I wanted to be at the forefront of that knowledge and share that with other students. So after undergrad, I felt that in order for me to get a job in any university, I needed to do a masters. So I did my Masters of Science. And I did it in epi genetics of telomeres. So telomeres are the ends of your chromosomes. And we were looking at how the marks on your ends of your chromosomes help regulate the length of your chromosome. Because we know that chromosome length is important in allowing cells to stop dividing. And when that's disrupted, that leads to cancer. So I was really looking at the epigenetic effects on the ends of your chromosomes and how it regulates cancer. And I thought, this is something I could do for the rest of my life. I could lecture on this. I love that idea. Cancer epigenetics that kind of tied in all of my interests. And as I work through my master's, I did not enjoy the research component at all. The hours were long, I didn't enjoy working on human stem cells or human cell lines and working 24 hours a day, seven days a week, essentially. So I figured at that point, I needed a break. I wasn't going to do a PhD. And I didn't really know what my options were. So I took a year off after my master's and I explored two different career paths. I looked at teaching high school. And I was looking at genetic counselling. I thought it was really interesting at the time. So it was volunteering in two different genetic counselling clinics. So one was at McMaster in the prenatal genetic counselling clinic. So they deal with pregnant moms who have abnormal ultrasounds, and what the result of that pregnancy might be. So they test for things like Down syndrome, or other chromosomal defects or other issues with the baby and they deliver that news. And then I was also working in in a cancer genetic counselling setting, I thought that would be right up my alley, because that was genetics and cancer, put everything together, for sure. And so I sat in on a bunch of sessions, and I found it extremely depressing. And I didn't want to be the person delivering information, telling you that yes, you have a higher susceptibility to developing breast or ovarian cancer, which are the most common cancers that they deal with, or whatever type of cancer you're looking at. And I didn't want to deliver bad news to people all day long. So at that point, after I had done my applications, I decided I didn't want to go down that pathway. So while I was volunteering in genetic counselling clinics, I was also doing tutoring on the side and I was helping high school students in math and science, obtain their credits, and it was mostly math because science students don't need that much additional support. They just have to Go home memorise the content, they usually do well on their tests. So it was. Yeah, it was mostly math where students needed that one on one help. And that was where I developed the connection with my students. I saw the growth in my students, and I realised that this was something that I could do forever. And I was really enjoying it. I left helping them. And so then I went to Teacher's College, and the rest
is history. That's really cool. That's really cool. Maybe you could just give us a quick overview of what does it mean to go to teachers college? In my googling, I found that it's called a Bachelors of education. So like, is that the requirement that's required to teach in Ontario? So yeah, so basically, like, how do you become a teacher in Ontario? And what does that process like?
So to become a teacher in Ontario, I think it actually depends on what you want to teach. So to teach math science, you need an undergraduate degree. And I don't know if it's a three year or four year degree. But you need, I think, a certain number of courses in the subject matter that you want to teach in order to be eligible to apply for Teachers College. When I went to Teachers College, it was a one year programme, and we obtained a Bachelor of Education. But I believe now it's a two year programme for the same degree. So after undergrad, you do two years of Teachers College, and you obtain your bachelor of education that allows you to teach in Ontario, when you do your bachelors of education. It's mostly classroom based, but you do when I was there, at least we did three practica. So we went out into high schools for three week periods, we would observe the teacher for one week, and then we would teach for two weeks. So we had help teaching our first few classes with the supervisor, I think the way teachers colleges run has been changed since I was there, because it's now a two year programme. But I would imagine it's pretty similar and that you need your undergraduate degree with a few numbers with the number of compulsory credits and a subject that you want to teach. And then you obtain your two years of your Bachelor of Education.
All right, cool. And then so you decided to teach high school instead of elementary. So is that also and you also mentioned earlier on that you are qualified to teach grades seven through 12? So I was wondering, is it during your bachelors of education that you pick a stream and decide whether you want to teach secondary or
elementary so when you apply to Teachers College, you apply, I think it's for primary Junior, Junior intermediate, or intermediate senior. That's the way they divided up. And I don't know exactly what primary grades are, what intermediate grades are, but intermediate senior, I believe is seven to 12. So before I enrolled in Teachers College, I had to decide did I want to teach high school, I guess, middle school or the younger kids. Once you graduate with your Bachelor of Education, you are able to take additional courses to allow you to teach other grades. So if I decided today that I wanted to teach kindergarten, I could go I could take a summer school class or an online class for a few weeks to give me the credentials to teach the primary school.
It's good to know. So why did you choose High School specifically? I couldn't work with little kids all day long.
Really, because I feel
like you would be good with kids. Like I feel like you're very energetic. And you know, like, you're bright.
No, I couldn't do that. The attitude then pulling up kids pants to help them pee. I could not.
I mean, yeah, honestly, when I thought about teaching high school, I mean, since since you brought it up, like, I don't think I could deal with teenagers all day, no offence to all the high schoolers listening to this podcast,
I didn't realise what I was getting into. But I don't mind the attitude. Some days are better than others. But I couldn't deal with those little kids. No.
I think like in every generation of people, you know, there's always your parents are like, kids these days do so and so whatever. I think teachers are in the unique position of actually seeing like, you know, kids these days change over time. Do you feel like there's actually like, significant or any changes over time in your teaching experience.
100% when I started teaching kids were not like they are today. And it was not that long ago. They took more responsibility for their actions. They were not necessary. They didn't talk back in the same way. I feel like as time has gone on, there has been less and less discipline in school are in the classrooms and kids are they know what they can get away with and what they can't. And so it's definitely changed. Technology is now exploding in the classroom, which makes it really hard as a teacher to control. But like with everything, you're going to have different challenges and different problems as life goes on. And that's what makes it fun. Right? So now I have to deal with the cell phone in the classroom that I didn't have to deal with when I started teaching in the same way. It's just a new twist on teaching and
it is In the high school environment did change so fast. I have a sister who's four years younger than me. When I was in high school, we never used an online management kind of platform like avenue to learn, like, basically the university online management platforms. But for high school, I think it's Google classrooms. We never use any of that.
And we don't use Google Classroom anymore. And now with COVID, we've changed all of that. So the technology in high school is rapidly changing.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Like for my sister, all her courses, have a Google have a Google Classroom or whatever it's changed to now like they have an online component. And it's just crazy, because we're only four years apart. So yeah, I think there might also be like, regional differences. I know we went to school in different districts, Lisa, but I know for peel like they definitely did start embracing it. And even when we were Middle School, we had a little bit of that. Yesterday, that makes sense. My sister goes to school and peel and I went to school and Holton, but yeah, I mean, even then I feel like it can definitely change quite rapidly. Yeah, for sure. So just follow up on that, I guess. Like, obviously, technology has been great in schools for certain things, but also, like you said, brings lots of distraction cell phone use. How do you feel about you know, the integration of technology overall? And in your classroom? Do you wish there was more of it? less of it? How do you feel about that? So I
think this is a pre versus post COVID? Answer. Okay. pri COVID, I did not feel that a cell phone deserved a place in my classroom. I teach math, you can't learn math online. If you need help. Raise your hand, ask the teacher ask your friend speak to the person beside you texting someone isn't going to give you the answer. You can't Google the answer. photomath is an app that students use to get a full solution of their answer. And I don't find it very reliable, and I don't really like it. So I was not an advocate for technology in the classroom, pre COVID COVID hit, we now don't see our students every day. It's the only way in which we can communicate. In our board we're using Google meets to meet with students online. And I love it. It allows me to interact with my students see my students gives them an opportunity to ask me questions in a live manner. I use the iPad when I teach online. So I hook my iPad up to my Google meet. And I essentially deliver the lessons speak to my students in the moment. So it's all live. And they're able to interrupt me and ask questions. The only difference is it's not face to face. So technology has its benefits. It can also be distracting to students in the moment. So I think from a teacher use the technology is wonderful from a student use, I don't know how valuable it is.
So thinking like in the, you know, far, far future over the horizon when COVID blows over and we're back to you know, quote unquote, normal. Do you think your usage of technology in the classroom is going to change at all? Or do you think it's going to go back to like, kind of no cell phones,
I think post COVID, I will be better with the use of technology. So as a teacher, I will change the methods in which I deliver the instruction to my students. So I am now able to video record my lessons. So I can always have a video online. If students need help with a certain topic, they can then go back onto the website, watch the video, and relearn the lesson. I have gotten better at presenting material through the use of technology. So students can use their computers or their cell phones to access that. But I still worry about the student who sits in class in the classroom on their cell phone or on their computer, and is not using their technology in an educational manner.
Yeah, I think it's a very different question. Like it's two very opposite things. Because there is the idea of technology in the classroom as a distraction. And then there's the idea of technology in the classroom as a learning aid. So it kind of is up to the student to be proactive about how they're going to use their phone. Yeah, I mean, it definitely helps. Also, when a teacher is like, please don't use your cell phones, like it's much harder to actually get the strap. That's true. That's true. Yeah,
I don't think there's a need for students to use technology in the classroom. Their friends are there. They have other peers in the class that they can ask, they can ask their teacher, it's more likely that students are going to get distracted with the cell phone in the past. They use it in a proper manner. That's my feeling.
Yeah, also specifically for math. Like you said, you can't really Google things. It is like just a hard subject to kind of, but you need to concentrate on I think you're not doing research. Yeah, I'm kind of jumping back to what we were discussing earlier. With help wanting to help students learn. I feel like most teachers like you go get their Bachelors of education because they genuinely want to help their students learn. But and I've noticed this increasing over the years is that students are mostly concerned about their marks, especially for grade 11 and 12. Because it impacts their university applications. And these things are getting almost more and more quote unquote gamified people know oh, I need a 96 in English to get into this programme and a 97.5 average overall So sometimes there can be this kind of difference of goal between the teacher who's like, I want to help you really learn and become better as a person. And the student being like, I need a 95. So how do you kind of reconcile your own goals with that of your students? And do you ever have any kind of dissonance with these kind of differing aims of you, you're like your own goals versus your students.
So this is a very real problem that we encounter in high school all the time. And it's not as much a problem in grade nine and 10. Because students and parents always figure Oh, my student has another year or two before the marks really matter, so I'm not going to fight it. And then in grade 1112, the student figures, okay, I'm going to buckle down at this point, and I'm going to do really well. In math, if you didn't learn the material in grade nine and 10, it makes it much harder to be successful in 11, and 12. Students definitely push to get higher grades, because they guilt teachers into giving them higher grades to allow them to be accepted into their programme of choice for post secondary school. And it, it's very challenging as a teacher, because at the end of the day, I feel it's my responsibility to teach the student how to learn and to teach them the skills in order to be successful in post secondary education. And also teaching them the curriculum required for the grade level or the course that they're enrolled in. So at Abbey Park, what we've done to try to combat this issue is that recently, we have totally redone our courses. And we've tried to cycle the material in a way to allow students to better grasp concepts and understand the why behind things in math. So we don't teach in the order of the textbook, we might teach chapters one and then a little bit from chapter three, and then a little bit in chapter eight, and then go back to chapter one, to try to cycle the information so that students are always learning, they're learning the same skills over and over again, as the course progresses, their grades are going up, rather than going down. So we always tell students like on the first or second unit test, yes, your marks are going to be lower. But we are going to revisit this material again, in unit three, unit four. And when you this question is presented to you later, you will hopefully learn from your mistakes, obtain more marks and your grades should go up. So the students have to have faith in their teachers that we know what we're doing. And we're really there, we're trying to help them, we're trying to allow them to earn the credit with the grade that they require for their post secondary school. But we're also not giving grades away. And I'm not going to give you a 90 because that's what you need to get accepted. If you didn't earn your 90, maybe that programme isn't the right programme for you. And those are difficult conversations to have with students. And in grade 12. We encounter those all the time. And it's hard for some of those students to hear, but they're always welcome to repeat the course they do better the next time they do it. Sometimes they just have to buckle down a little bit harder, they need to advocate for themselves come in for extra help. But usually, if they put their mind to it, and they trust us, and they listen to the advice that we give them, they're able to turn their marks around and maybe not get the 90, but they make up the 88 and then get a little bit higher in another course and their average is still high enough to allow them to be accepted into their programme of choice.
Yeah, it's definitely a tough decision. And I mean, I've been on the other side of it like in grade 12. And I know a lot of my friends, there was discussion about Oh, like, you know, I'm hoping this teacher will bump my mark from an 89.5 to a 90 because you know that that's what I need. So yeah, it's definitely a hard position to be in. And it's something that I've considered when I thought about becoming a high school teacher. Yeah. You mentioned a little bit that at the school you're at now they've kind of done more experimental approaches to helping students learn math better. Yeah. Have you experienced any other teaching experiments like this before? Have you tried any on a more personal skill in your classroom specifically, and not schoolwide.
So at Abbey Park, we do more departmental white stuff. But when I was at another school, so at white oaks, I was working with another teacher to help students guide themselves through the thinking process a bit more clearly. So another teacher and I sat down and we created what we call the toolbox for students. So that when they were presented with a problem that they had never seen before they would reach into their toolbox and grab some of the skills that are some of the tools that they had to allow them to think about a question from a different perspective and maybe answer it in a way that they they would not have in a previous year prior to using their toolbox kit. I didn't find that that was so successful. You win some you lose some. I think it's better if students revisit the same material multiple times throughout a course. Thinking is all Always hard for students, it's always that's always where the bar is higher that distinguishes the 85, from the 90 and the 95. Student.
Yeah, I know. But it's definitely a very real problem. And I almost feel that sometimes students are used to learning in a certain way, going, even from grade one to grade six to grade eight, you know that you do the lessons in school, and then you go home and you do the homework. So it's almost like when you're trying a new teaching technique, as an experiment, it almost has to be better than the previous one, not just equally good, because you have to overcome that barrier of the students being resistant to change, because they're used to things being a certain way. And I think I feel this myself when I'm hit with a teacher presenting a material in a different kind of way, like, okay, we're going to do a flipped classroom. Yeah, I think it's, I think it's interesting. And you and you definitely also want to, this is not the word I want to use, but I can't think of a better word. So you don't want to be like condescending towards the students, if that makes sense. Like, you don't want to present them with the technique, like, you're gonna use your critical thinking hat kind of thing if they're in grade 12. You know what I mean? So yeah, it's definitely hard to switch up teaching techniques, when they're so kind of cemented, it's been the same thing for a long period of time.
So this is a big difference between math and science, I would say when I taught science, I would often integrate activities into my lessons on a regular basis. So we would play Jeopardy or do trivia type games. And that was really good for science, because it's memory recall, do you know the answer to this question or not? When I tried to incorporate those into my math classes, students struggled, so they take longer to answer the math question. They can't keep up with the game. They just randomly hit a number for doing something online, they don't think it through in the same way, because the answer is not necessarily at the tips of their fingers, and they have to work through it. I didn't find that those games were as successful. So for certain subjects, I think you can vary it your teaching styles more, I think students or at least academic students, so the difference between the academic and the applied stream for academic students, they come into math class, they expect a quote unquote, chalk and talk lesson. And then they want time to do their homework, the applied students, I think they learn more from those games. So when I teach applied math, I don't give the chalk and talk lesson, rather we do learning through exploration. So we'll play a game to come up with a mathematical rule, and then we give them time to practice. So I think it depends on who your students are, what their learning needs are and what their expectation is. So the academic student really wants chalk and talk and time to learn, which is what you're referring to.
So kind of probing farther along similar lines of barriers to teaching and teaching techniques. Have you ever felt that there are kinds of barriers to students for learning? So one example that I can think of is that nowadays, I feel that tutoring is becoming more and more common, and especially for grade 11 and 12. Students, it's not uncommon to have a tutor outside of school, even if you're already getting an 85 or even a 90. So yeah, like, have you ever felt that there are kind of systemic barriers that are preventing certain groups of students from achieving and how have you dealt with that
lots of students use tutors, sometimes student tutors really help the student, and sometimes they cause a big hindrance. So classically, what we will see is a student comes to class and they don't do anything in class. And then when you ask them to pick up their pencil and start their homework, their response is, well, my tutors coming tonight, they're going to help me. And I find that really frustrating because I'm there to help you in the moment, and your tutor is there to supplement. So my worry with tutors is are you is your tutor watching you do your homework? Or is your tutor helping you go over the homework questions you didn't understand, or the topics in math that you didn't understand and essentially reteaching you the lesson to make it easier for you to tackle the homework. If your tutor is reteaching material that you didn't understand or helping you through homework that you've already tried. I think that your tutor can be effective and helpful. If you use your tutor as a reason not to do work in class. I think it's a huge waste of money. There's lots of support at school for students, and I really feel that there's little need to have a tutor today. So at our school, we offer math help before school at lunch, and lots of teachers will do it after school. Also, there's no need to spend money on a tutor considering the amount of extra help we give at school and we will sit down and teach entire concepts with students or help them through a homework question. Some students need that for security, but I don't think that they do a lot of good so I would be wary about using a tutor and I would use the supports that you have at school to help Your yourself or your child excel at math,
and maybe like how you kind of handle that kind of situation where students like, yeah, I'm just not going to work right now.
So when a student says, I'm not going to do the work right now, my tutors coming tonight, I can't change the way a student thinks or how they feel about doing the work, I can call home and have a conversation with the parent and discuss whether the tutor is effective, or if we're using the tutor in the right manner. But if a student has made up their mind that they're not going to do the work in class, that's their choice. And every student is entitled to do what they feel necessary in the moment. And there's not much that as a teacher we can do to change that we are there to help and support students who are accepting of help and who want to excel. But if you've really put your foot down and said, say, I don't want your help, right now, I'm going to wait until later, there's not much I can do in the moment. So I find it frustrating because I want to help and support those students. But you have to be willing to accept help.
Yeah, I totally agree with that. And on what you said about there are a lot of supports available for students. Not only are those supports free, but those supports are better than your tutor. Because these are coming from the teachers that are actually involved at the school, they know how the school goes about these things. And a lot of the times if you're going to your own teacher, they are going to be the one who is marking your quiz. So they're going to know exactly what you need to be doing. So I've definitely worked with students where I almost feel like my presence, it's more like to help like to force them to do the work, because this is a paid session. And so they have to do it. And I've also worked with students where I feel like I'm genuinely a supplement to them in that they are coming to me with questions like specific questions and specific concepts that they want me to help them go over. So the next question we wanted to ask and again, going along the same lines. When I was in high school, I really felt that I had great science teachers and this isn't just me, buttering you up. I realised that the size department in white oaks is excellent. Oh my gosh, thank you. Okay, so it's not just me. There's so great right, Mr. facade. Mr. Patterson was there I love them all. Yeah, like genuinely, I would just walk into that science office like, Hey, what's up? No, no, they're a great group to work with. Amazing. Yeah, you were like, honestly, I loved all my science teacher is like, every single one of them in high school. And I really feel like that contributed to me having a passion for science, and actually going into bio in university. And so I just think that's such a crazy thing, because I've heard friends who are like, Oh, I just, I just never took physics because I took it once in grade 11. And I had a horrible experience. Whereas you could have another person be like, Oh, yeah, I had this one grade 11 physics teacher who's super inspired me. And so I decided to study engineering and university. So it's kind of almost like these, these key Butterfly Effect moments. So do you ever just like think about that, where you're like, wow, like, how I interact with the student could impact the career they choose later on in life? And does that ever impact how you go about your work,
I actually have never thought about that. My goal isn't necessarily to look at students and get them to go into a math or a science based career, it's really easy to motivate the student who is already motivated. So they're motivated based on grades, they want to learn the content. My goal as a teacher is to take that student that hates the subject matter that I'm teaching, and to get them to come to class every day, and to feel some excitement at the end of the semester that they've worked hard, and they've earned their credit, and they've done the best that they can do. I feel if I have done that with one or two kids in a class per semester, I have had success. I don't look at it as a bigger picture and say, I want a student to go into a math science career. I just want students to not hate my class. If you come to my class every day this semester and say, that wasn't so bad. I've done my job.
You just want them to come out being like I survived. And it was okay. I tolerated mistakes. I'm more than tolerated. You know. So maybe if it was math, it would have been like we're nearing the end. Now. Is there anything that you wish you had known before going to this field?
No, I love what I do. I love helping all my students. I love watching them succeed at the graduation and the graduation ceremony. We find out where they're going to school on what they're going to do. And I find it rewarding that I have made an impact hopefully positively in a student's life and allowed them to reach the career path that they're going down. And yeah, as we wrap up,
is there anything you want to add before we finish this up? No. Thanks, girls. Yeah, thank you so much for joining us and for chatting to us. I think this was a fun interview to do. And yeah, we appreciate your time. Thank you for inviting me. This episode is sponsored by Brittany Mr. Britney Mr is a small business In 2016, and owned by Brittany, Brittany is currently an undergrad science student with a passion for all things artistic. Her mission is to bring you a high quality art that is affordable as art should be enjoyed by everybody and accessible to all. I Brittany Mr. You can find one of a kind art prints ranging from adorable baby animals to minimalistic nature pieces all hand painted with love. The art is available on a range of sizes, and also as stickers and even on the canvas. They also love taking custom orders. So if you don't see something that's exactly for you, you can just message them and work something out. I myself have purchased the baby penguin prints, which I printed out on cardstock paper to display in my room, as well as a couple of mini prints of a handful of blueberries and a watermelon slice. The quality of the art is truly amazing. Everything is very cute. And Britney is super accommodating. If you use the coupon code life, sy Li f e s ci, you can get 15% off the whole shop, check them out at Brittany mr.etsy.com or follow them on Facebook and Instagram at the links in the show notes. So how do you feel about that? Okay, I know like after about half hour interviews, I'm like, wow, this seems like something I would be interested in. Maybe I should go into Well, I get the legit this time. Okay, that's actually what I was thinking about. I was like, she's gonna say that she actually wants to go into this. And she does that for like every other episode. Okay, let me let me explain my thought process. Hear me out here. Okay. A lot of the people that we've interviewed, it's like a role that I didn't know about before. That is interesting to me. But teaching math like that's something I've thought about for a while now. And something that I really think I would enjoy. It's like purely because I don't feel like there's a lot of opportunity or I'm just not thinking or like I haven't really looked into if there's enough opportunity to do that. Right. And then hearing tallies interview I'm like, okay, maybe this isn't as out of bounds as like I thought I was Yeah, yeah, I just think I'd be like really well suited to the job just because like, I feel like I'm generally chill and patient. So like, the whole High School attitude thing that you were kind of, like not your favourite part about being in high school. Like, I feel like I'm fine with that. I also just love tutoring math, and like, I had such a good time in high school math. Yeah, I would still be down to to anyone now. And then also just like, you know, summers offer pretty nice. Like, quote unquote, off like, yeah, yeah. But even that's like, so like, I don't it's not that I'm trying to not work in the summer. It's like, I like just going somewhere cool. doing work. And yeah, like making lesson plans, like just getting that moment of like, the person you're teaching understands what you're teaching. It's so rewarding. Yeah, I know what you mean. Like, I understand that as a teacher or as a tutor. Like the gold star moment is when the student goes, Oh, and you're like, that is music to me as a student, knowing that professors and teachers like hearing that when I genuinely do have those aha moments. express them. Yeah, feel good, because they helped me.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I
feel like I could do it all day. Yeah, I could. I could totally see you as a teacher. I feel like Miss. I almost call her Miss aiza. I feel like Talia is to you what Jana was to me, in that you've been considering becoming a high school math teacher. And I have been considering becoming a physio and it's not. And both of those positions are relatively known. And they're relatively accessible. Seemingly. Yeah, that's a good comparison. I'd say. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I feel like in terms of becoming a high school teacher, math is definitely not a bad bet compared to something like English. Yeah. I mean, I guess we can talk a bit about the process that she mentioned of becoming a teacher, because again, we don't have a point of comparison. Right. And it's one data point, she doesn't know if she would have gotten this position. If she Yeah, was less hardcore about promoting herself, but it does seem she had to do a lot and really squeeze her way in there. Yeah. In terms of going like, Can you imagine that? Like, if you if you wanted to be like a research assistant, and you had to personally visit? Like company in Toronto? Yeah. We also don't even know if that's what it was. Right. She has a Master's. We don't know what effect that had on. Yeah, that's true. That's true. You know, the region that she's living, like, there's just so many things that could be a play. That's true. I didn't think about that, like the Masters probably gives you an edge. I mean, I mean, I don't know. Regardless, I feel like the fact that she felt that that was something she had to do is probably indicative of it being a bit competitive. I've heard that it's a lot of effort to get hired. And it's interesting that you mentioned that being a teacher seems like it suits what you're looking for. Because one of the things that you mentioned that turned you away from becoming a professor Is all the stories of people who have done multiple postdocs for years and still not gotten an actual Professor track position. And I feel like I've heard similar stories of teachers who have spent many years on the substitute list. And it's a long time to get that position. But yeah, I suppose that's also dependent on where you're looking for work and the subject you're looking to teach. Yeah, it feels so different, like, does that. Like, it feels pretty similar to me, but I mean, I mean, like, for me, I think the difference is that with this whole substitute teacher situation, you're in the situation when you're What 2324 25? Yeah, postdoc, it's when you're 35. So I think there is a difference there. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. When you're in your mid 30s, you want to have more stable income? Maybe? Yeah. I mean, it definitely is good to hear that. It's a fairly short degree. I mean, I know it's extended to two years now. But I've given that to a lot of professional. Yeah, exactly. A lot of professional programmes. That's, that's not too bad at all. Yeah, that's like, you know, less than one postdoc. Just kidding. What do you have against postdocs? Oh, my gosh, what did they do to you? They're just like, don't make sense. They're just an excuse for people to actually don't make sense. Like, I think maybe we talked about this in the previous episode. They came out, I don't know. But like I have, I've talked told you about Hi, just for years, I have not understood what a postdoc is. I was like, that's a fake position. I don't know. I think I still don't fully understand it. It also doesn't exist outside of outside, because there's just so okay. I'm not gonna go into that anyway. This is not the episode. Yeah, we're not doing that here. Yeah. I guess talking a bit more about the position. It does seem like another one of those things analogous to professorship, where there are a lot more hours, it's not a 40 hour a week job. It's probably at least 50, possibly 60. Because what she said she's at school from 6:30am to 3:30pm. So that's nine hours already every day. Yeah, I mean, I know that includes like a lunch hour. But you know, again, like math clinics, that kind of thing. And yeah, I just I just thought it was interesting. And you kind of mentioned this to me, candidly, when we were speaking on the phone last week, but a position might be advertised as requiring 35 hours a week. But you mentioned how in order to actually excel at a job, you need to add several hours on top of that. And I feel like teaching is one of those things where there's such a range of variation. For example, as a TA, if I wanted to, I could spend two hours preparing for my tutorials and make the amazing, but I've only paid for 30 minutes of prep every week. And same with grading assignments I'm giving, I'm given two to three hours to mark a set of assignments. And so I kind of mark within that timeframe. But if I really wanted to go above and beyond with feedback, it would take me twice that amount of time. So and I think especially with a teaching position where it's not an hourly rate, it's it's a salary, you're probably not quantifying your time the same way that I am as a TA like, okay,
yeah, that's
many hours. That's what I'm putting into the marketing. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But the other thing too, is okay, I feel like this is just become me defending why I shouldn't be a teacher. I'm not coming at you, man. I know, I know. You're not this is like, justification to myself. This is not for you.
Okay, you do that?
Yeah. So I was gonna say is that like, the nice part of it with teacher hours? It seems like from Talia describing her schedule, is that it's a lot of like, interaction time with students. Mm hmm. That's true. Where like her 6:30am like tutorial type of setup is very much like helping students in a more you know, community. Yeah, if I was a teacher, that would be an after hours thing. kind of thing. I can't believe students show up to that. That's crazy, I guess because extracurriculars are after school and she doesn't want to overlap. But yeah, I used to wake up at six in high school. It's life was great. Like you go to the gym before class, do your homework like it was nine. Yeah, no, no, keep telling about how you were going to the gym and doing all those things. I was like bleary eyed on the bus. But yeah, I agree. Like I definitely enjoy the one on one interaction more like in my past tutorial for the course that I'm teaching, we were given the opportunity to kind of like interact with the project groups, and then more one on one and then for one time, students finally took me up on my offer to stay after the tutorial ended and actually go over some of the stuff again, sounds like a pipe dream. Yeah, exactly. Have some a little bit of help with their post tutorial assignment. I'm like, I'm so down guys. Like come talk to me. I don't want you to message me 20 things on teams after 10 minutes after tutorial and just talk to me. Yeah. So yeah, I definitely enjoy the one on one interaction. And I think that's why I like tutoring more than more than leading classes, perhaps. Yeah, if any of your students are listening, she's pretty embarrassing in real life. So don't be scared. You know? What do you mean? I'm also pretty embarrassing. In my tutorials. Like, watch me forget the word for cytosine like. Actually, it's interesting that this interview we did was with Talia about teaching because I was just thinking the other day about this concept that I've heard of before where the careers that we see tend to be the ones that we go for or that we think are viable. So an example of this is Yeah, like an example of this is opening a restaurant people see restaurants everywhere. And so they're like, well, I don't think anyone exactly goes, Oh, I'm gonna open a restaurant because the restaurants everywhere, it's more like you don't realise how hard it actually is to sustain a food business, because you only see the successful ones. And I think that's the same for for teaching, you only see the teachers who do succeed, and you don't see all the hard work and like the blood, sweat and tears that goes into getting that first teaching position. And yeah, I don't know. Like, I think that's kind of why one of the reasons why I think this podcast is a good idea, because it helps expose the careers that don't get seen. And so that people tend to not pursue because they don't even know they exist. Yeah, I think there's a couple things here like, yeah, the thing about you only see the successful bunch. Yeah, that's that's, you know, that's true. But I think also, no, there's really no about to that. But I'm trying to separate it from the other thing, which is about like how you're more likely to pursue something that you've seen done, that kind of goes into how nowadays there's a lot of focus on like diversity and different roles and kind of making places more inclusive. I think that really aligns with that idea of if you can see someone who's like you in a position that you maybe didn't consider before. It makes you a lot more like it opens that option in your brain. Yeah, no. So yeah, I think that's very related. Yeah, I was super happy to hear her say that they're trying to increase diversity and teaching, because I think that's super important. I mean, especially at that age, you know, when you're 15. Yeah. Yeah. If you had like a teacher who you can relate to, that's, I think that's super helpful. Yeah, for sure. But also kind of on the note of considering careers that you see around you, I feel like that's kind of the me and professorship or research and university, because we're just surrounded by research. And I almost feel like that's fueling my like, I want to go into research thing. Yeah, for sure. Okay, so I, like, you know, I have relatives that are twice removed. This is like content that's twice removed, or listening to podcast reading this article. But it was talking about this guy who did his graduate studies in physics, and then thought that's what he wanted to continue on with. But he was talking about this culture that like academia has were like, considering an option outside of academia is almost nonsensical, like, it sounds, you feel like, there's no other option except to continue down this research route. So yeah, I'm not gonna say that, like that's, you know, how extremely embroiled you are in this. But there is definitely this consumption of academia or nothing. Yeah,
it's hard because I really do feel like I am well suited to research. The other night, I was actually looking at if I should take some anatomy courses in undergrad after all, because they are requirement for physio school. And I was thinking, if I am really thinking about physio school, I might want to just take those courses now. And I ended up going on the physio websites for I think, Western, and McMaster. And I was looking through the courses that you do as a physio and I just wasn't as interested. Whereas, whereas when I read about the research that's going on with all these cool new cancer therapies, that makes me really excited. So I mean, it's hard to say, Yeah, for sure. There's also an element of like, I mean, we talked about it during the episode, like barriers to kind of getting to do what you want. You know, that might be health barriers, which is really unfortunate, but just like a lot of hoops you have to jump through. And so that's not even about the career itself being aligned. It's more of like, these variables around the career that influence your decision, if that makes sense. Yeah, to jump off that I have a cool thing I want to share, which is I don't think I talked about this on the podcast, but two weeks ago, I had a meeting with this disability advisor but not really disability advisor. I think she's more of like a career access programmer supporter person at McMaster University. If you all don't know McMaster University has the Student Success centre, and they provide students with support in finding jobs, or editing the resume, things like that. And I met with her because I wanted to talk to her about accommodations for my thesis, like, how do you approach a professor about accommodations? what accommodations do you expect? And one of the things that I really appreciated about our conversation is how real it was. I've had a lot of people say to me, and you see this everywhere, like we want to include diversity, we want to include disabled people and all those things. But I'm here thinking like, okay, but why would you hire me if you have to accommodate my aching hands when you can hire someone who's equally as qualified, but who doesn't have this disability? And the way that she the way that the coordinator person explained this, she was like, Okay, if you can do the main components of the job with accommodation, and those accommodations are reasonable, they can't disqualify you based on that. And that was so helpful to me like in One sentence that clarified what the realistic expectations are, because an extreme example she gave was that if you're significantly visually impaired, you can't be hired to be a pilot. Whereas if they can buy, for example, some matting that can make it easy for me to stand for three hours, and they can do that for like 50 bucks, then they should do that, and they should hire me, and they shouldn't discriminate me based on that. So just like super helpful, like real life, what can you actually expect? Yeah, I'm so happy that that happened. Yeah. Oh, my gosh, I can't live it and tell you about it. It was Yeah, it was great. Nice. Yeah. I don't know if this whole like barriers to learning thing like if that gets further proliferated by this idea that, you know, academia is what meritocracy. And I feel like that that kind of thinking hasn't gone away. Even though there are very, there's evidence of like a lot of barriers for a lot of people quickly explain what a meritocracy is, again, yeah, it's just like, the assumption that everyone who's progressing is based on like, their merit basically. And so a lot of times, like professors, even though it might actually just be discrimination, they might see it as like, oh, like, this person is just not cut out to do this thing. Which is just like, really unfortunate, because it might also be like a bunch of other factors, like maybe, you know, they're having like, a lot of financial issues. And like, they can, you know, also be doing this thing? I don't know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like, I think finances actually make such a big difference in education. Because if you're someone whose parents never went to university, they never did post secondary, and you're just maybe working class or lower middle class, and you really have to support your own way through university. First of all, in high school, and throughout University, you probably have to work some kind of minimum wage job, at least in high school. And that totally impacts our ability to focus on getting good grades, and then get into a good university. And then on top of that, I think there's so much stress that just comes with knowing that you're constantly kind of like working to survive, whereas some people who perhaps they also pay their own way through university, but they know they if they need a few grand if they're just like, in a really tight spot, their parents can help them out. And I think that makes such a huge difference. So
yeah, definitely a lot of financial barriers in education. talking more about financial barriers, I have not even a pet peeve just a genuinely understandable annoyance, which is that I've had students either contact me through this tutoring agency I've worked through, or I've gone on Kijiji and seen so many job postings where because of COVID-19, it's just students outright asking tutors to write their exams for them. Or they're being like, Oh, I need your help from two to 4pm this Sunday, while I write my exam to help me with the questions like I want you to be on the phone, or I want to be sending the questions to you. And there's two ways that's wrong. Like, the first way is that you're not being you know, quote, unquote, academically honest, all those things. You're cheating yourself. That concept, which, yeah, you should actually learn the content. But the second thing that bothers me most is that not everyone can afford to do that. Yeah. Like, that's genuinely the thing that he likes me. It's because not only are you being like, Oh, I don't need to learn this. I'm just gonna pay someone to do it. Like, not everyone can do that. So it's so annoying. Yeah, it gets two more follow up points. One is that, like, you have the confidence to be like, I'm not gonna do that. Learn your material. Whereas like, yeah, for, you know, each person that turns it down, there's like three more, they'll be like, okay, I'll do it. I'm sure for sure. It's definitely one of those things where it's the tragedy of the commons. Yeah. So it's the idea that if you do the right thing, you lose out and authority if people aren't going to do the right thing. I do like to think that most people would actually turn out Yeah, I have a I have a Yeah, yeah. For this thing, right. Yeah. The issue is that sometimes there's also like schemes where it's very well hidden, where it's like, you know, you're an English teacher out of work. And you can join this website that right help students. But it's really just like plagiarism. Yeah, for sure. Oh, my gosh, yeah. So that's kind of that's pretty scary. Sometimes I'm just genuinely shocked at the audacity of these companies, too, because they will post on the McMaster University 2020 page, like, hey, we'll write your essays for you plagiarism free and like how is this getting reported? But I'm like, how does this even nerves Yeah, yeah, the other aspect but to to your kind of tutoring woes is like, that is very apparent in university as well, especially in first year, like we had a lot of outside companies offered to teach a course in like a week or a day or whatever. And yeah, we had recorded lectures in first year and one of our profs fully turned off his mic and was like, went off on this company. Cuz he's like, yeah, like, I can't believe people give my course material to these companies so they can teach it back to you at like a price and all All this stuff and so are University pat on the back for them for actually stepping up and giving some free resources for this as well. So like some of these companies that offer like a learn, you know all this material in the short amount of time or have like review session, and then a lot of the prompts would also have like ta is give review sessions and stuff like that. Or like me question banks or like, you know, free online supplements. Yeah, there are ways to try to counteract this, but at the same time, like, you know, the University, the professor, they have to care. Yeah. And that's not always the case, unfortunately. Yeah, yeah, I definitely agree with that on this. No, it made me feel better when Talia was talking about how there are a lot of free resources available. And that is totally true, I totally forgot about the math help clinic, which they also had at my school, and which was super helpful. It's a room where you go to at lunch, and there are just teachers there to help you. And she also makes a very good point about how a lot of these resources at high school that are available for free are higher quality than what you can pay for. And I can say this as both a high school student and as as a tutor for high school subjects. It's because sometimes the kid will be like, Oh, well, do I need to show all my work for this? And I'm like, Well, I don't know, I'm not your teacher, I'm not the one greeting you. But if you went to the math Help Help clinic, they would probably be able to answer that question better. But yeah, like, You're totally right. And that that is dependent on the quality of your teacher. So if you're at a school where the teachers are not teaching well, or because of COVID-19, they're really dropping the ball, then the students who can afford to pay for additional teaching, I think have an advantage.
Yeah, for sure. 100%. Yeah, talking about the quality thing, I don't know, I have kind of mixed feelings. Because on the one hand, if you're a company, you have the profit motive. So you really try to make your products good. On the other hand, you're totally right in that your TA the professor, they know what what is being asked of you. And they'll also be able to present things in a way that encourages kind of further exploring the content, usually, because they'll have like greater kind of frameworks for understanding a concept. And that's, I think, really valuable in terms of getting actual value out of your degree. Yeah, so I don't know, mixed feelings. Also, I think a lot of people don't make use of the free resources a lot of the time. I agree. Yeah. And I see this from both sides. Because on the one side, it's like, you know, they're free. And the resources like, what about that? You know, that's not helpful. But on the other side, like, I'm relatively shy when it comes to ratio. And actually, this summer, like COVID has helped that so much where I'm like, really has like, can see my face, you won't know that I asked that dumb. So yeah, I've just been really showing up to a lot of office hours. And like, Oh, my gosh, that is one thing that is super great about online learning is I find it is so much easier to participate, because you can participate through the chat. And you can participate through talking anonymously. It's just, it's so much better. And it's so much better to raise your hand in teams. Yeah, wait for five minutes to be called on then to hold up your hand in lecture for five minutes and eventually just make the profits ignoring you on purpose. So you put it down.
You know, like, yeah,
that is one thing that I think is is genuinely so much, so much better online. Yeah. Asking questions in class. Yeah. Another thing that I thought was really interesting in the interview was kind of her mindset when it comes to teaching students. Oh, yeah. Yeah, where she was kind of talking about how you can't force them to do anything, or learn in any particular way, or anything. And that's something I really have a hard time with in floor following. And I've talked to other members on my team where it's like, even if you think something is better for a person, you can't actually make them do that thing. Like you can't make them reach out for support. You can't make them like a wellness advisor. Yeah. And that's really hard. Because I'm like, you know, I really want to help you, right? Yeah, yeah, I feel that I think this is the thing about healthy boundaries. Yeah. Yeah. Like, for example, as a as a TA, when there's a student who is not coming to tutorial, I can reach out once and see if they're okay. But beyond that, it's up to them to show up. Yeah, it's kind of a struggle, but it's kind of interesting to think about it that way. And, you know, it does take a little bit of a load off for you. So that's really nice. Definitely another yes as well. Yes, you definitely need to recognise that they are their own person, and that you are just a resource and it's up to them to access that resource. Last thing, hearts to my high school teachers high school. I want to thank everyone for this reward. I want to thank all the teachers who supported me, I want to thank my dog, Uncle all my future Golden Retrievers. Okay, I know you're joking, but it's so legit. Like both of us have had such good high school teachers. Yeah, yeah. I think that like your success is just you and like what you've done, but not even. Like, if I hadn't had you know, the privilege of being a student in some of those classrooms definitely would not be kind of doing the things I'm doing now. Yeah, for sure. It was super validating when Talia was like we had you had great teachers. Cuz I was like, Yeah, like I just had great science teachers and she was like, oh my god you did? I think I was super, super validating because I've always I genuinely just love so much every single one of those teachers. Yeah, science office. So yeah, and it's like, you know, an accumulative effect. Like if I hadn't had, you know, good math teachers are been taught, well, you know, elementary school to middle school or high school, like I would have gotten lost somewhere in the middle. You know, I think especially with math, it is very cumulative than biology. I think it might be harder to teach yourself factoring. The teacher saw some bio things. I mean, I don't know. This has been another episode of so you got a life side degree with Talia aisyah about teaching high school mathematics. We want to give special thanks to our crew of lovely patrons, including our little leaf patrons. nyeem The Neil Shafi and shamima if you would like to become a supporter of this podcast, you can visit our patreon@patreon.com slash so you got a website degree. The music you're hearing is no regrets from audio hub.com Thanks for listening and see you next time.