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S03E11 - Building Resiliance in your personal life and minstry | Otter.ai

S03E11 - Building Resiliance in your personal life and minstry

Ian Banner21min

Ian Banner

00:00

Well, good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening this another podcast from the school of safe and humble profit. Hi,

Voiceover

00:05

and welcome to this podcast brought to you by the School of safe and humble profits. Our crew consists of really experienced leaders from different nations who work and operate with churches locally and internationally. Our aim is to bring you the most up to date thinking and teaching on how to use prophetic gifting safely and with humility. Let's join our host Ian for another episode of the current series.

Ian Banner

00:29

Hi, I'm Ian banner from the school of saving number prophets. Thanks for getting hold of this free podcast, I believe prophetic gifting in the Christian church, if done well, is an immensely useful tool to encourage and help everyone grow and become more mature in Christ. If he's done well, it's brilliant. But if he's done badly, it can cause huge problems. I'm obviously a fan of doing it. Well, that's what this podcast and the School of safe and nonprofits is all about how to use prophetic gifting well and safely for the benefit of the local church. Our aim is to bring you leads on the frontline, the best in teachings and understandings from around the world. This week, I'm joined again by my good friend Jonathan. Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening, Jonathan.

Jonathan Dunning

01:09

Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. It's lovely to

Ian Banner

01:12

have you with us. So a pleasure. Yeah, we're, since we last actually recorded, I have had a trip into Uganda. And my friend David took Roland, who many of you will know from the podcast with me as well. We talked through a whole bunch of things. And in fact, you will see there are a couple of summary podcasts from our time there with, you know, what we're up to and some thoughts. But part of that was a request that we looked at an issue that I think is quite a good issue for us to think through, which is essentially is to do with if I titled it emotional resilience, how to how to how to keep yourself on an even keel, if that makes sense how

Jonathan Dunning

01:48

to stay strong in the middle of a storm. Yeah.

Ian Banner

01:51

And anchored. Yeah. And so I wanted to spend a few minutes just talking this through with Jonathan, it's always good to have someone to talk with on these subjects. Rather than just do anything on my own. I'm always delighted for friends to help and particularly for Jonathan, who the feedback is goes down very well. So let's talk a little bit about what I think emotional intelligence means sorry, emotional resilience means Forgive me, and then maybe your thoughts on that will be useful. So what I'm trying to get at is for prophetic people and for leaders in general, it's the ability to adapt to stressful situations or crisis's without being overcome, and particularly being able to combine negative emotions as you said, it's, it's being able to pass through a storm, isn't it? Really? Yeah.

Jonathan Dunning

02:33

I mean, I guess, you know, let's, let's just lay the cards on the table, I'll be honest, you know, that I've, in the past, I've had 30 years ministry, this, this last church, and before that, as a previous church, but I had to take three months off with stress. I'm not immune from it, and I don't think many ministers are and the big danger is that people keep going, or try to keep going. And I know lots of ministers who who feel it would be a sin or a terrible, terrible meaning of admission of weakness is a good way of putting it to actually admit that they have problems in this area. But I just want to assure anyone who's listening, lots and lots of ministers, I know good godly people have struggled at times emotionally because the wear and tear of ministry, and it is wear and tear. You know, Jesus himself said when the woman touched him, you know, with the issue of blood, I perceive virtue has gone out of me. Yeah, I think you know, we give when we minister it ministry is a giving word and, and unless you find ways of actually emotionally recharging, and spiritually recharging and physically recharging, you run the risk of burnout, you run the risk of stress, overwhelming you, you run the risk of instead of being anchored in a storm, that storm starting to engulf you, and you become like the disciples in the boat saying, Lord, don't you care, we're about to drown, or God obviously cares. He wants to help us. And he wants to enable us to be able to ride out the storms that we face in ministry.

Ian Banner

04:10

Yeah, and I remember a ministry time I was at a while ago where they said, you know, to conference leaders and they said before we get into any of the stuff we want to have a time of trying to renew and refresh ourselves be like a battery on a phone, you know. But there's a phrase this guy used he said, we all have people in our churches who when it comes to taking from us back there truck into our drive, and stick the pipe right into our heart and suck it all out. And it was just a phrase that really hit me at the time about Yeah, we do and you know, so

Jonathan Dunning

04:41

I mean the challenges of ministry is that when you've given yourself wholeheartedly and genuinely to a situation and I know you first this as well as me and I know you've known the wear and tear of this Yes, be honest, is that you feel you've given and that's almost like a slap in the face people have have have, you know taken from you? I mean, Jesus talked in it about learning to walk an extra mile. And if somebody, you know, slaps you off or the other cheek. My word, it's really hard for us at times because we feel the pain, you still feel the pain. Jesus didn't say, when somebody smacks you on the cheek, you won't feel anything because I am with you. He said, pain is part of ministry, the sense, you know, to learn to give the other cheek, because you will walk through emotional pain that is telling at times as a minister.

Ian Banner

05:34

Well, yeah, I mean, I think the area I want to try and try and get into or discuss is just, if my, if my image is think of a phone with hardly any battery power. Because you've given you've given you've given, you're not recharging, you're not charging enough. And then, but this phone has one spectacular ability, which is even when it's empty, you can still keep giving. Yeah. And you almost go overdrawn. You want to go withdrawn. And there's a point when you're so overdrawn, you collapse. Yeah. And it's almost like as leaders in any ministry that we go, I will give everything to this. And actually, I'm not sure I will give everything is a godly phrase.

Jonathan Dunning

06:15

Now. I mean, yeah, it? Well, you know, I think I think we get to the point where we feel we're supposed to do that, that Jesus gave his up. But Jesus also withdrew from crowds. He withdrew from the wear and tear of ministry, people are looking for him, where's he gone? Well, he withdrew, he went to be alone with his father. He withdrew from the wear and tear of ministry. I mean, my word was a temptation to still be out there with those massive crowds and still doing the doing the stuff of ministry. But Jesus knew, as the Son of God, that he still needed to recharge. He with that phrase, he withdrew. He went, he spent time on his own with his father, God, we all need to spend time for recharging and space.

Ian Banner

07:08

So my first point here about resilience, and I'm thinking of prophetic people, but also, ministers in general is this point that the difference between someone who is resilient and not is resilient people know how to cope with the difficulty, learn from them, bounce back, resilient people. So learn to regulate the highs a bit as well, because again, I think we both know, yeah, the truth is, if you allow yourself to be super invested in the highs, there's always a drop afterwards. And you can go quite low currently, and we know that so. I mean, I remember, in the UK, we used to have a toy that was like it was a bit like a, it was like a sort of, maybe you might call it a Lego figurine. Now in terms of slightly bigger, but it had a circular base. It was weighted at the bottom of the bottom like an egg.

Jonathan Dunning

07:57

So it had a foundation. It has a balance balance station,

Ian Banner

08:01

and it was called weebles the cord weevils. And the great phrase that was in the adverts was weebles wobble. Yeah, they don't fall down. So you

Jonathan Dunning

08:08

can push against this thing and knock it almost flat. But it would always bounce up.

Ian Banner

08:13

Yeah. In other words, its foundation. Yeah, man, regardless of what you did, and how much you bashed it, it comes straight back, it

Jonathan Dunning

08:19

would always come back up to Yes. Yeah. And I think that's a great analogy for people. Are you talking about prophetic people? Well, of course, in the Bible, you've got Jeremiah, the weeping prophet. And particularly, and many people go to this story. You've got Elijah, after Mount Carmel, who is completely burnt out to the point where now and what happens when you're burnt out is you lose perspective on your calling on, on your ministry, on everything, you know, so there he thinks everyone's against me. Nobody's with me. I'm all on my own. I'm not coping well just kill me says, God, just take me. And the interesting thing is God doesn't judge him. God doesn't say you. You are showing weakness. You are showing an inability to be a minister for me, you are failing me. God feeds him and tells him to sleep or allows him to sleep and rest. Yeah. And then there's this recommissioning.

Ian Banner

09:18

It's a great story if it is, isn't it, man. Carisbrook. Yeah. There's almost a feeling that whilst God doesn't judge Elijah, Elijah do

Jonathan Dunning

09:29

the largest dreams and I think that's the problem that happens to us. You know, we get to this point thinking I'm useless. I've failed. I've not been able to cope with this situation. I'm a hypocrite. And it could be you know, the interesting thing is Elijah just stood up to all those prophets of bale on Mount Carmel. But the thing that really the final straw was he heard that Jezebel was after his life, one person, one person who was going to be a miss Lea powerful person within within the Have the setup with a few denominations, but one person was threatening his life. And that was a that was just too much

Ian Banner

10:07

do you think it was? Oh no, this is just too much or give up? Or do you think it was actually the power of the Jezebel that got to him? Because I always imagined it was that it's just as you viewed him, yes, was the straw that broke the camel's back. It was just the final straw who was just too much. And the reason I think that's a more useful understanding is, because that's how we experience it. As shells leaders in that regard. This is just the last thing.

Jonathan Dunning

10:31

But it's, it has to be something like that, because it's out of context. Here was a prophet who was speaking to the King Ahab, who was challenging him to his face, who said, there's going to be no more rain, who was really powerfully being used by God took on the profits of this wolf, head on. And then suddenly, something happened. And actually, dare I say it for most people in ministry who come to a crash, it's the one little thing that happened. And normally that one thing they would cope with, yes. But in the context of what you're talking about the battery being rundown to being in the red, the being to the point of, of overworking and overriding all the all the systems that say, you know, you need you need to recharge, then one thing happens and suddenly back, you lose perspective on the whole gamut of life, or the whole everything that's been happening, you know,

Ian Banner

11:30

yeah, I mean, into sound not full about this, but I'm in a conversation with Dan, Dan Wilson, you know, who has now gone to live in Spain. And he's, we get basically we gave him a drone for his job. Oh, brilliant. It was around a couple of weeks ago. He's in Spain now. And the drone allows him to take circular videos of buildings, put them into 3d systems. Anyway, the batteries, the batteries won't charge. And is this message yesterday me in mountain says the batteries won't charge. So we have to look at this. And apparently what happens is if the batteries left on charged, it goes into like a hibernation mode. Oh, wow. And like switches off? Yeah. So we've had to give him support on how he gets the battery, because there's four of them is a little batteries, how he gets the batteries out of hibernation mode. In other words, in order to protect themselves, yeah, the batteries have gone into a mode, that means they can't be damaged. And I think that's part of what happens to leaders when they their resilience. That is that you get to this point where you, you sort of try and protect yourself, but you collapse.

Jonathan Dunning

12:31

Can I say, you know, to any of you who perhaps are even at that point where you're where you feel burnout or failure, you've lost perspective on what God has called you to do. Or somehow something's come against you or someone's come against you. And you've lost confidence, and hope in what you felt called to do. This is not the end of the story for you. It wasn't the end of the story for me, it wasn't ANSTO for you, and I was it and it certainly wasn't the end of the story for Elijah. And and I think we just want to build some hope into this situation. These podcasts, I think talking about emotional resilience are saying, you will make it if you trust in God in this situation. Just felt I wanted Yeah,

Ian Banner

13:10

no, it's a good point. I was in I was at cdmi with apostle camaleon, a couple of weeks ago, and part of my talk was this point about I sometimes feel I'm in the middle of a tunnel stuck in the middle. And, you know, I want to get out I'm calling God to get me out. But actually, that there's probably things to learn as well, in this moment, and you probably need to sort of think through what is it you've got to learn to move on?

Jonathan Dunning

13:39

I mean, yeah, sorry, I'm interrupting. But but in terms of the middle of the tunnel. So good analogy, because I think, you know, in Scripture, we read, say a passage of scripture or a couple of chapters. And we can read it in maybe a couple of minutes in the Bible. But it might have it might be months or years during that time you get these phrases and it came to pass. And there's there's a period of stuff in our lives. You look at the story of Joseph. And there's there's I mean, how long is he in prison for years? Yeah, we don't have chapters on how long you what was happening when he was in prison? Do we just know he was in prison? And essentially, you know, for many of us life, life's a lot longer than the now the now feels the painful moment. But the healing in a Texas into the next stage. And sometimes that process takes takes a long time. Dare I say? It's not always instantaneous.

Ian Banner

14:33

My testimony is I'm sure you'd agree is in the end, you can look back. Yeah. So for example, Psalm 34. David doesn't, doesn't write that Psalm. He writes that psalm not when he's in the middle of his problems, right afterwards, looking back. God is good. He writes it afterwards looking back and we sometimes take the words like you know, I remember when I was really at my lowest points mentally, many years ago and I, I would take some of those Psalm words, and I'd say feeding on the Lord. But actually, the truth is they're from a point in the future in David's thinking that he understood what was happening. They weren't how he saw it at the time. And I think I want to just say that to people, which is sometimes we can, you know, one of the things we can judge ourselves, as we said, one of the things we can do is we can beat ourselves up with the Bible, if we're not absolutely. And we can go, well look at the sample of what David wrote, and you know, David, a hero of my faith, and but my testimony would be that I put like this. All things work for the good in the end. Yeah, absolutely. And although low points are low, they're not the not the destination, they're not where you'll stay. The issue is, I think there's two things to think through. One is how to get out. Yeah, cost point. Yeah. But also, the other thing is to look again, at the Weibull, and how the foundation was put together correctly, so nothing could, you know, do it. And I think that's if this is an intro to a series

Jonathan Dunning

16:06

of takedown but not knocked out. If there's

Ian Banner

16:09

an intro, this it is to these two things that we'll look at. One is, how do we, how do we restore? Yeah, how do we restore each other from these knock downs? But also, how do we create the weight the foundational way, that means we are resilient? And these things don't get to us?

Jonathan Dunning

16:27

Well, you know, that all the ships, big ships have an awful lot of ballast, you think, actually, Hey, why do you need all that weight in the bottom show that will make the planet that this thing ship, but it provides the stability, that when you're going through a storm, the ship doesn't actually sink? It doesn't rock too much. There's all this weight ballast in the bottom of a big ship to hold it steady. In a storm. And I totally agree with you. When you're in a situation, your perspective is distorted, just as enlargers was. But reading the Psalms reading most of the a lot of the prophetic literature, if not all of it, you will find written in those prophetic books, we've talked about the work of a prophet, there are times when their emotions when their feelings their their that are coming to the surface in what they write, certainly in the Psalms. And I read once about a guy talking about looking at life through your rearview mirror, you know, you're driving, you've got a mirror that looks what's behind you. And you can see the road behind you how to do that when you're in the crisis. But looking back, David wrote that famous ending to Psalm 23. Surely goodness and mercy followed and followed me in the rearview mirror, I see your goodness. And I see your mercy as I look back over my life, all the days of my life. And if you read David's story, he's in caves. He's been threatened for his life by soul. He's, he's on the run. He has family issues with his own children. He has marital issues, there is stuff going on in his life, right the way through and battles to fight. And yet he says Surely goodness, and mercy has followed me all that. And when I look back, through the rearview mirror of my life, I see God's hand I see God's mercy. I see God's goodness.

Ian Banner

18:24

It's fabulous. I think we're near the end of this one. We've set something going here. Next one I want to talk about specifically prophetic people and how they're emotional. I remember once in a meeting, you even said something about that. I remember a while ago to me, which was with a public meeting and you said, prophetic people are a bit more emotional than others. And that's not good. I remember you said that. Maybe you didn't say that's not good. Maybe I did that myself. So I want to talk about that. And then I do want to get into the other stuff. But today this episode is about this hope for God pursues us. Yeah. No matter how low you are, when you're at your lowest bid is

Jonathan Dunning

19:03

highest when we give up God never gives up on us. gives up on us.

Ian Banner

19:08

I remember Chrissy perilla wouldn't saying in a meeting, I realized that when all I have left is God. That was all I already that was all I always needed. Yeah, brilliant. Fact, I've quoted that to Chris and she doesn't even remember saying it. It's one of those things that affected me for life. Okay, when at the end of this podcast, can do it. Could you pray about this issue? And then I want to I want to finish with a verse which I'm just going to, okay, dig up. But if you could pray, please, yeah,

Jonathan Dunning

19:36

let's pray. Let's just come before the Lord. Father, we thank you for your goodness and mercy in our lives. Thank you for the fact that you have called us and you're the one who never leaves us or forsake us for success even in those moments, where emotionally we feel crushed, emotionally, we are struggling and We lose perspective, we lose a sense of truth about the reality of the situations we're in. But I pray for anyone who's struggling, who's listening to this today, that by aggressive mercy that you would instill in them the hope that it's not finished yet. It's not over yet. You give us a hope and a future. And I pray, Lord, that as we we talk through this issue more, that you might encourage us a recharges, and re envision us for the call that you have put upon our lives in Jesus name. Amen.

Ian Banner

20:38

Amen. Amen. And we want to leave you with just one verse from Philippians chapter three, and it's verse 13. Paul is talking about the price he wants to get to and he says this, brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of this. But one thing I do, forgetting what is behind and straining towards what is ahead, I press on, towards the goal to win the prize, for which God has called me heavenwards. There's another verse races I will take hold of that for which the Lord has taken hold on to me. And we just want to encourage you as you listen to this dark days pass. Yeah, because our King is the king of all darkness. Amen. Amen. Thanks for listening. Watch out for the next one.

Voiceover

21:28

That's it for another episode. The School of safe and humble profits is a UK and International Christian ministry, bringing you the best and most up to date teaching on all things relating to prophetic gifting. Subscribe to our podcast by following at safe profits on Twitter or subscribe on our website safe profits.org For more information, visuals and show notes. Join us next time for more from the school of safe and tumble profits.

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