TRANSCRIPT: Why Online Learning Can Be Liberating for Students with IEP and 504 Plans (feat. Lisa Rohde from Michigan Virtual)
4:19PM Sep 22, +0000
Speakers:
Nikki
Lisa
Keywords:
students
teachers
learning
online
iep
class
support
education
virtual
face
lisa
michigan
accommodations
written
classroom
instructor
own pace
environment
learning environments
ieps
Some of the things that we write into IEP is for students who are learning in a face-to-face environment are sort of just inherent in an online environment. So,for instance, extended time on tests, that's super easy for us to accommodate online. I mean, it's literally one click to change the amount of time that's provided for our student. Students getting extra time on assignments, in an asynchronous environment that wouldn't even need to be written into an IEP because they have all the time they need until that course end date arrives, so they can work on things as they see fit.
I'm Nikki Herta, and this is BRIGHT: Stories of Hope and Innovation in Michigan Classrooms, a podcast where we celebrate our state's educators and explore the future of learning.
This past year, many students and their families struggled with the transition to fully remote learning. This held particularly true for students with IEP and 504 plans, who, on top of learning in a new way, also had their own unique needs that had to be met in order for them to be successful. Although of course, it's highly dependent on each student's personal situation, an asynchronous online environment can actually be liberating to some students with IEP and 504 plans. Why? Because by virtue of this model, students can move through their course content at their own speed, and get individualized help from their instructor when they need it. In today's episode, I chat with Lisa Rohde, a special education and instructional support manager at Michigan Virtual, who helps me understand how an IEP or 504 plan might look different in a face-to-face versus online setting, as well as some of the pros and cons of online learning for students requiring accommodations.
Well, Lisa, thank you so much for joining me today for this episode of BRIGHT. can you talk to me about what it is that drew you to education?
I grew up in a really small community, a suburb right outside of Detroit. Everybody knew everyone, But even then it was small. I had some really amazing teachers and some opportunities. But as I got older, I started to realize that education was truly the way that someone could change their life. I know that sounds like really idealistic, but I wanted to be part of that for kids. I know that a lot of kids don't get to choose the situations they grow up in, or they don't get to choose what they're dealing with growing up. But they do have the power to become something different than that, and I feel like the starting point of that is their education. So even if they came to my classroom and only took away, you know, a feeling of being safe at school or a desire to read more, I was okay with that, because I wanted to help kids, you know, achieve those goals.
When I was teaching face to face, I had an opportunity to work as a Michigan Virtual mentor. That was my first introduction to Michigan Virtual and I was like, wow, this company is amazing, they're doing really cool things, and I really want to be a part of that. So I kept watching and watching until something that I was able to be a part of became available. And the kind of the rest was history there. But you know, I had a chance to really research and build our special education program at Michigan Virtual from scratch. Before this, there was really nothing concrete. It was a really cool experience, and I had a chance to put into practice a lot of the things that I had been learning as a face-to-face teacher, and in, you know, studying in my master's degree to really put together some supports for students taking courses through Michigan Virtual. I just love working with teachers and helping to support the teachers, so this role was really fantastic for me.
What about special education? How did you get your foot in the door there? What were you seeing in you know, in your classroom or in the world that made you really want to make a difference in this area?
As a general ed teacher, I was seeing more and more students come into my classroom, in an inclusion model, where they were coming in as part of the general education classroom. And I started to think like, wow, what, what could I do for them, that would really enhance their experience, but also provide them the support that they needed to be successful while keeping them with their classmates. And online education really does that. It lets them take a class at their own pace, lets them work through the material in a way that makes sense for them, but allows them to stay with their classmates. And I just think that's really important for students who may feel like they're being singled out sometimes or that their experience is different than everyone else's.
That does kind of lead into my next question. So, when we talk about special education students, it does seem like there's a broad range of students that we're talking about. So how do you define that? Or how do you describe what that means and is?
At Michigan Virtual, what we're talking about is students who have special academic needs. So those students who are working under an IEP or a 504 plan that have accommodations that are required to help support their learning to be successful on the online class or in the classroom. That's kind of how we define it. And I think part of that is also students who need support from personnel locally to be successful as well.
That's great. Thank you. Just in case somebody who's listening doesn't, could you describe what an IEP and a 504 is? And what the goal is behind these sorts of documents?
Sure, an IEP is an Individualized Education Program, and a 504 is a document that supports students who may not have a learning challenge, but may have another kind of challenge that impacts their learning. Accommodations are written into those plans to support student learning to kind of level the playing field for students. So that they are on par with other students that are their peers.
So this past year, in particular, I've heard many reports and news stories about the challenges that families with special education students faced when it came to 100%. virtual learning. And I was wondering if you could talk to us a little bit about you know, your perspective on this, and what the unique challenges faced by these student populations and these families was this year?
Yeah, so one of the biggest challenges I think we saw this year was that IEP and 504 plans were really written to be executed in a face-to-face environment. So as kids started to work more and more online, it became very challenging to accommodate them using the accommodations that were written for what they will be doing face-to-face. I think as we move forward, that's going to be something that special education teachers and schools start to really consider when they're writing goals and accommodations for students. What kind of learning environment are students going to be in? But it was really challenging this year to try to match up what a student was doing online with what obligations we had to fulfill in terms of accommodations that were written for a totally different environment. So that really caused some challenges in terms of making sure students were getting everything that they needed to be successful.
Another challenge I really came up was lots of students were very used to side-by-side support when they were working. They were used to being in a resource room or having a teacher support while they completed their classwork. And a lot of online work is asynchronous, so that was really difficult for them to get used to working in that new fashion. Students who receive services like PT or OT, that was really hard sometimes to do online. Because, you know, it's very difficult to help someone bend a knee or hold their pencil when you're not there to really help them do that. So, lots of times parents were kind of left to pick up the pieces here. As this becomes less and less of an emergency situation and more of a situation that students are choosing to work online, this is something that we can probably decide to clean up for students and think about ways that we can write IEPs that support online learning a little bit better.
Maybe you could just give us like a couple concrete examples of how it might look different in a face-to-face learning environment vs. an online learning environment? Any advice you might give to someone who's designing an IEP or a 504 for an online student specifically?
Sure, so thinking about the online learning environment, some of the things that we write into IEPs for students who are learning in a face-to-face environment are sort of just inherent in an online environment. So,for instance, extended time on tests, that's super easy for us to accommodate online. I mean, it's literally one click to change the amount of time that's provided for our students. Students getting extra time on assignments, in an asynchronous environment that wouldn't even need to be written into an IEP because they have all the time they need until that course end date arrives, so they can work on things as they see fit. We see things about reading tests and quizzes aloud to students. We actually have a tool In our course, our courses that will read text to students from the screen. So a lot of the things that we plan for students in a face-to-face environment are just met by the the way that online learning works in a lot of cases. And that's really important to think about because it's really cutting down the teacher's time spent writing these things and trying to implement them and sharing them out with all the various staff that's going to interact with that student. But also, for the student, it's a much smaller list of things that they will need. So they're going to find themselves being able to do so much more without the restriction of having to worry about asking for all of these things. Because they're just there for them already.
I've heard some interesting arguments that every student should have an IEP or an Individualized Education Plan. What do you think about this?
I think that's actually a brilliant idea. Because education should be very individualized and focused on what a student's interests are and what their overall goals are in terms of careers or future education. I think it would be really exciting for a student to sit down with someone and map out what where they want to be at the end of their high school career or moving into post secondary education. I think that would be something that lots of students don't really get to experience and don't really have time to intentionally plan out where they want to go and what they want to do. So that might be a great experience for students.
I'm Nikki Herta, and you're listening to BRIGHT, a podcast that's made possible by Michigan Virtual, a nonprofit organization that's leading and collaborating to build learning environments for tomorrow. Today, I'm chatting with Lisa Rohde, a special education and instructional support manager at Michigan Virtual. Up next, we talk about which students tend to thrive in online environments, Lisa's favorite teacher, and her vision for student learning.
I'm wondering if you could give us an example of what this could look like in action. It doesn't have to be a real student. It could be a hypothetical. Obviously, you don't have to use their names. Just an example of like what this could look like in action. Do you have an example of a student who might use virtual learning and have this experience in its ideal form? What might it look like?
Well, an example might be... We have several students who are taking courses with Michigan Virtual full-time that have social anxieties. So being able to kind of eliminate the need to interact live with their classmates or with their teachers can really help ease that anxiety a little bit. So while they're still engaging in coursework, they're still engaging with their instructor, they're just doing it in a different more comfortable for them way.
Many students obviously struggled this year with 100% virtual learning. But do you think that there are some students that didn't realize that it was actually really good for them and came away from it, like realizing that the online environment may be conducive towards their unique situation?
I think a lot of students are going to leave this year thinking about how great online learning was and will want to keep doing it beyond this year. Because they enjoyed it, they liked the learning style, and they liked the way it supported some of their needs. I think the biggest thing for all students is just the way that online learning is set up to work at your own pace. When you're taking a class face-to-face, you're moving through the class as the teacher is moving you through the class. In an asynchronous online case, you're moving at your own pace, and the teacher is supporting that pace as you move through the class. So it's a little bit different. It's students really taking the time to really study topics that they're struggling with or to get support on topics they're struggling with. They're able to slow down and really digest information or ask for help in a different way, and everyday when they come to class., it's tailored to their needs, their desires, and their goals, instead of everyone moving along and like one giant mass group.
So you work with a lot of online instructors, and I was just wondering if you could tell us a little bit about the qualities that you see in these online instructors that impress you most and make you excited. What are the things that you love to celebrate about what some of them are doing?
Our online teaching staff here really is just amazing. I can't even begin to describe to you the amount of work that these teachers put into making sure that all of their students have an awesome experience in their class. I mean, I see teachers really going above and beyond to provide supplemental materials that they think students are going to be interested in or enhance what they're learning in the class. I see them reaching out to kids via Zoom or on the phone to go over things or just kind of check in on how they're doing. I sat in on a meeting not too long ago with a teacher going over Spanish pronunciation with a student who was trying to take a class like for credit-forward purposes. They just really really really care about their students. I think that a lot of times people think that online learning has less of a relationship component, but it really doesn't. Because you get to know students without ever seeing them sometimes or without ever hearing their voices. So you really learn about them through what they share with you, through their coursework, and through their messages. You really get to know students on a different level because there are no preconceived notions. There is no one in the teachers' lounge letting you know that, "Oh, my gosh, you have so-and-so in your class?" That doesn't happen.
I just really, really admire the amount of tenacity and perseverance that our teachers show because all of them, every single one of them, was dealing with emergency teaching at their face-to-face job, if they're a part-time instructor. Or just changes overall in the way kids are learning or the type of students they were experiencing if they're a full-time instructor here. So all of them had other crazy business going on in their lives, but were still really really really dedicated to making sure that students had a great experience and that they were getting what they needed from their classes and were able to move on successfully.
All right, we're doing a slight shift here. So can you tell me about your favorite teacher and why they were your favorite?
Yes, so my favorite teacher is Paul Szymanski. He was a math teacher at East Detroit High School back when I was a studen. He is now an administrator, but, at the time, math was and still is really not my jam. I was not a math student by any means. But even though the subject was very difficult to me, I really enjoyed Mr. Szymanski's class because he helped me to see the kind of teacher that I wanted to be as I move forward. He very much treated us like we were part of the learning process and would ask us to contribute to what we wanted to do in class and how we needed to learn. He really didn't have that "they're just kids" mentality. He really saw us as people with ideas. I also really appreciated the humor in his teaching, which to me is very important. I like to laugh, and I respect people that can make me laugh. He kept very high standards for us, but also made the class very fun. He was just a real person. He showed us himself and showed us that we could ask questions. Overall, thinking back on it as an adult, really what he was teaching me was that education is about relationships just as much as that it's about content. I hope he thinks about those students that he had it all in his Algebra II classes all those years ago and realizes the impact that he may have had on our lives.
That's so cool. Thank you. Let's talk about your vision for student learning. So I know that this is a big question, and I don't expect it to be exhaustive. However, the way I break it down is: If it were up to you, Lisa, what would you want to see for every single student?
I would envision students leaving high school with not only the content knowledge they need, but also preparation for their future careers and/or higher education. I would like all students to have access to technology and devices equitably. I think that's really important that everyone would have the same access to online courses, to internet, and to devices. I would like to see every student have access to quality online learning that's developed by people who really care about online learning and want to see students be successful in that aspect. And I would like everyone to have the ability to choose the kind of education that works for them. If you like face-to-face, traditional classroom learning, great. If you want to continue to work online, great. If you want to do some mix of the two, that's fantastic. And I would like to see kids really have more choice in how they're learning. And I would love to see teachers have adequate preparation and rest time, so they come back to their classrooms feeling rejuvenated. I feel like they that really plays a part in student learning when their teachers get a break and also are trained appropriately for what they're being asked to do. So I hope that all of our teachers are getting some some rest and relaxation time to be able to be at the top of their game for their students.
Thank you. Do you have any words of advice or encouragement that you'd like to offer to our educators right now?
Oh my gosh. As always, so much is expected of our teachers and things are always changing. But you're doing a fantastic job. I want teachers to know that they're doing a great job. Kids are learning. Kids are feeling like your classroom is a safe place and a good place to learn. Keep doing the best that you are able to do. Your colleagues, your friends, and I think everyone that knows someone that's going to school or has a child in school is proud of the work that you're doing and is thankful for the work that you're doing in keeping students learning during a difficult time. And I think that you're all very amazing.
Online learning comes with its challenges and benefits, but some students with IEP and 504 plans report having a deep appreciation for the ability to move through learning materials at their own pace.
Lisa offers a unique perspective on why this is, in part, thanks to her wealth of experience as the pioneer of special education supports at Michigan Virtual.
Without a doubt, it’s challenging work to design learning environments— whether face-to-face OR online — that can be easily accommodated to meet each student’s unique needs and circumstances. But with leaders like Lisa forging our path forward, if there’s one thing we’re certain of: it’s that the future is BRIGHT.
Thank you for joining us for this episode of BRIGHT: Stories of Hope & Innovation in Michigan Classrooms. This podcast is produced by Herbie Gaylord, is hosted by me, Nikki Herta, and is shaped by many of our passionate and talented colleagues. Big thanks to Christa Green, Emily Sicilia, Anne Craft, and Brandon Bautista for their contributions to this episode.
The BRIGHT podcast is made possible by Michigan Virtual, a nonprofit organization that’s leading and collaborating to build learning environments for tomorrow. Education IS changing faster than ever. Discover new models and resources to move learning forward at your school at michiganvirtual.org.