You can't get like, you know, 40 artists or whatever working on something and have it be the same that the same when it comes out the other end,
let alone 80 artists. Oh 80 artists
holy is that how many there are?
That's that's the last number that Matt said. I it might be 60 but I think like with the developers with like operations Yeah.
Well, we'll see. Shrug.
321
Welcome to chaos radio. This is the story of 80 artists from around the world experimenting in collective creation.
Over the next eight weeks, we'll be pushing the limits of music web three by creating 21,000 unique art pieces under the shared artists name, chaos.
Join us as we witnessed this artists grow fall rise and we hope ultimately, we're calling our community of makers camp chaos. And here I can we believe the most exciting part of this project is the making of it. So come join us backstage with soncap a little family of music and
love in weird 3d
climbed down into the pit orchestra while we rehearse for our final performance making art as
chaos. Will we be able to let go of our egos enough to truly own this work collectively? Can we survive off the promise of a future NFT job will be
harnessed the power of chaos
or be consumed by chaos. I'm Jada and I've Llosa. Let's find out together. How How is Song camp right now just like exceeding your expectations when you originally begin it.
I mean, at least from the exact pinpointed moment I'm starting it like in every single possible way.
Matthew Chaim is a singer, songwriter and musician in the music and web three space. If you don't know of that yet, you probably will soon. This is God talking with Matt while walking his dog in Montreal.
Alright, why didn't Doug come to see it started literally on a night where I was just, you know, doing that thing of being like so magnetically inspired and interested in curious about this whole new world. And I just like off that energy, and also have a little bit of weed. This discord and just call it song camp. Because I've always had this name song camp ringing in
my head. And this was almost exactly a year ago. But anyways,
yeah, there were no plans, there was zero plans. And the next day and my sobriety, I felt like such an idiot, because I sent it to like 10 or 12 people through DMS and like, whatever. I was like, You should come to this discord. Like, what is it? And I'm like, I don't know just like a place for musicians to come and like, try things and do things and we're gonna be not attached to any project, but just do stuff. And I was like, but inside then I reread my comments next day. I'm like, I'm such a loser. What am I doing? Like people are gonna come in here and they're gonna be like, expecting something and there's nothing here for them. But it was just something told me to do it, I guess.
two camps later and two successful fundraisers later. Song camp is a pillar in the music and web three space curating both songwriting camps mixed with web three hackathons.
These experiments are organized in two camps. The first camp was camp Genesis, which raised about $34,000 from three music NF t's the second camp camp Electra raised about $100,000 from a collection of music, NF T 's and experiences. And now we're entering the third camp, Camp chaos. And some of the folks involved in the previous camps are coming along for the journey again, including another Canadian Francis Miller. Hi,
I'm Fran. A musician in Toronto, PhD candidate in music studies program in Toronto touring musician and also a composer sometimes for contemporary dance stuff. Fran
was part of Camp Electra camp to have song camp and is back on the ride as a leader at Camp chaos.
So my role in camp chaos is I'm a guide. So hopefully helping facilitate a couple of bands a couple song groups.
All right, let's take a pause here. So what is Fran talking about? Can you break it down for me, Jada?
So you and I have a film background. It's honestly kind of like we're running a production for a movie. Cam chaos is broken down into six teams or like on a movie site. They're called departments. Music visual develop First, economics operations and lore, which is eyes. Yeah, go team law. There's 12 bands and three Alchemist teams all creating the soundscape and music of chaos. They're bringing in that vibes. And then the visual team are making the eye candy. They're the cover for songs and helping us out here in lore, and I chaos radio with beautiful images that you're looking at maybe right now and logos. And then the dev, econ and ops team are essentially like the production coordinators of the film set making it all happen behind the scenes. They're coordinating that money flow communication flow, and when three NF T execution flow. And just to be clear, when I say NF T execution flow, I'm talking about the 21,000 unique art pieces were making in camp. So how is this camp going to run campus separated into four acts, the first act is order, the second act is disorder, third act entropy and fourth act is rebirth. Okay,
and this is how long is each act? Each act is two weeks. Gotcha.
So in total, it's eight weeks. Okay, gotcha. Yeah, so the people who are behind on this are the operations team. They're been kind of working on this whole project since the end of Electra.
To be honest. For a group called Chaos, it's been pretty organized. Like there's a, there's not been a lot of that fly by the seat of your pants energy. Frank gets
it. Essentially, this operations team is making this whole space what it is, and one of the people behind that is Sarmad.
My name is Samira, or Sarmat in English, or gradients, whatever one's easy for people. But yeah, I go by Gray, a lot in song camp and camp in general. And I am a singer, music producer, songwriter, and also an operator in song camp. So I'll be helping out during camp chaos.
Seidman is super organizational, which is so helpful for the discord of zone camp. And also for just email flow and communication in general, during this camp,
not just focusing on like this music aspect, like the music is one of the core pieces. But if you think about the project, a project actually has three core components. There's the development aspect of it, there's the visual aspect of it. And then there's the songs. Without any of those three pieces, you don't have a full sort of NFT or, or a final piece that we're trying to deliver. And so I think each of those things are equally important. However, we have more like physical or human resources being put towards the music. And so that's where for a lot of us in camp, at least the operators like you know, our curators, our our, you know, our core team at song camp, we were thinking a lot more about the music. It's not
just music, though, like, there's so much visual,
there's a whole team on that to working on creating art for all of these 21,000 21,000 pieces of artwork, and like the only way they can put stuff out there is with the dev team. And they, whatever they do is really cool. I don't even know how do you explain a liquid splits Dev?
We are gonna find out. gear you heard it here first, folks, liquid splits. First, folks, but you know, I sure did.
But, you know, for for me as sort of an operations person, I should have been thinking about all those things equally. And I kind of wasn't. So yeah, I need to give equal attention to all other areas, not just the songs because I'm closer to that world. By being a musician.
We have a lot of design power. So I'm trying to like just keep things as spread as possible.
That's visual team, Stuart Pease node talking with his design team in a pre camp meeting.
As far as like basic traits that we're going to be doing. There's three acts and 12 scenes per act, because 12 groups will be producing one song every two weeks, and then rotating.
And we started turning the dial up on like these conversations this week. I think pieces is kind of like a puppet like, oh, we should have started having these conversations early. And I was like, Yeah, I think like, I think I think the pre camp should have been like two three weeks ago.
There is this one trait that we have that we've just been calling noise. And maybe it could be like treating images with like different levels of reticulation but it'll be good to know what the devs are going to do and what they need from us.
However, if you if you think about it In prospective to, let's say, Genesis or maybe even Electra, like we're still ahead of the curve, like we're still doing a good job of managing these things, and thinking about them before they start. So I think we'll be okay. I'm not too worried. But in a way, it's kind of like, yeah, maybe two weeks ago, what we're talking about this week should have been discussed, because then we're giving us like a weak breathing room. And I think that's just like, insight for everyone else to be like, yeah, building buffers for shit, guys. Like,
I guess it is tough though. Like, how do you collaborate with so many people to like, keep a digital group together like that?
Yeah, I mean, it's all an experiment, which is great. And I guess it's each with every creative project, the only way to learn and grow is to do it.
I mean, yeah, also, Rome wasn't built in a day, right? It takes time.
Talking about builders, one of the great founders of this camp has been a resident gardener Mark ready doe.
Hi, I'm Mark rodeado. I live in Los Angeles. I am and ecosystem gardener, over at song camp, and I am the chaos music steward in camp chaos.
Here's Mark talking with the guide theme and a pre camp call.
Cool. So let's start with a what, what is chaos guides? You know, I think this has been informed by a lot of our learnings from PVS song camps, right? Like, the the core team was, was me and myself, Matthew, and Brian running the whole thing. And, you know, it was good for a while, but at some point, it felt like it was limiting. And it was also like narrowing. And so, you know, part of our thinking was like, how about we distribute, you know, sort of like, a little bit of the facilitation towards people who have high context, who have gone through a soncap cohort, and is really trusted members of our community. And so that's how chaos guides emerged. So let me just like touch on briefly, why, why we're doing this. It's a space, this is a space for us to practice distributed leadership, you know, we are all leaders here.
Yeah, it's kind of like creating an architecture for, you know, working with big groups of people on a project, kind of like, my mind takes me back to the times I was in marching band where you're, you know, literally marching to the same beat of like, 100 other high school students with you?
Yeah, so like, I guess, in this whole, decentralized web, three worlds, like the human needs still mattered to make it run in a way that's like, giving to the people involved, but also something that the audience would want to consume. How does that happen? How does that happen?
Mark went into this in that same meeting with the guides.
Number one is the UBI was just like a base, you know, second would be exposure to chaos value flow, that means the back end of things, the money that we get from NFT sales will be distributed. So within the exposure of like NF T's, one is Coordinape. And then the second one is a self select sort of lightweight UBI or stipend.
All right, so what is he talking about? What Okay, explain to someone who doesn't know what is Coordinape? What is an NFT? What is UBI? How does this all relate? Back to Song camp?
Boy, bro, same? Yes. Okay, so
what? Okay, so what is an NFT? What are we making, right? That's
the product that we're making the product that we're making, the item that we can mint, and then somebody can get it? And then they own it. So essentially, how do I understand NF T's is like a vinyl pressing of an album. This is how somebody in song camp actually explained it to me when I was first getting into it. And an artist owns the rights to that album. But then whoever buys and purchases that vinyl, that album, they are the only ones who own that physical copy. Hmm, yeah,
so it's like getting a rare Pokemon card yo. Card Collection. But then there was this other piece about UBI
right. Ubi universal basic income.
It seems like maybe a stipend, but I think we should let Matt explain. This is him explaining the concept to another group of campus.
Starting Points base UBI. We thought a lot about this. We said Oh, Okay, first of all, we're all exposed to the back end of this project, right? We're all creating this big project, hopefully, it's gonna do really great. We're all gonna receive value from that. But also people are giving like good quality, you know, valuable time towards this project. And it's risky. We don't know what's gonna happen. This might get chaotic to the point where we all crash and burned. Hopefully not. Hopefully, we had harmony, and it goes amazing. But either way, we thought, Okay, what if we actually provided a base UBI? What could that look like, we have designed it such that everyone in this camp will have access to receiving point three eath. If you opt into it, this will create a baseline layer for you a value to be able to like commit more the time you're putting into this project. And it also provides people who I know a bunch of people in here who are new to Aetherium. And new to having a wallet, maybe don't even have a wallet setup yet, which we're going to help out on later this week. This will give you some eath to actually be able to do things in the Etherium ecosystem, including claim your split at the end of camp pay the guys transaction to actually claim. So that's one part of the base UBI
Gotcha. So it's like, let's say, You got to get somewhere fair, like giving you gas money to get to the location, so that you can start your Pokemon journey. I see so well. It's like Professor Oak, giving you your first six pokey balls to like, all right now go.
Really love your Pokemon references. About my childhood.
Yeah, overall. Okay. And then Okay, so the last thing that I just I really need, I want to understand is what is Coordinape.
I love Coordinape. It's such an awesome coordination tool. It's a web three application that helps a group of collaborators decide on how to pay each other, and shower each other in love and appreciation. So with the UBI piece, we are self selecting what value we should receive ourselves. But with Coordinape, we're deciding how much value to give each other. It's kind of like a gift giving point system where you can say thank you, to the team members who you notice doing a lot of work, essentially extending gratitude for their presence, time and efforts. And those points can turn into real money. It's a deep dive. And we'll definitely be covering more on a future episode.
So that's how value flows working now when we're talking about a week before camp. But of course, there are a bunch of creative humans working to create this value. And one thing we've been asking folks is what their biggest feeling has been now that camp is about to start. So here's Mark, a little bit of anxiety,
because of the amount of interaction so that I would have with people, some of these conversations might also lead to an outcome that I don't want, ie conflict.
So a gardener has to take care of the weeds so that all of the plants around that area will thrive. Mark is one of those people who in his gardener position really takes care and holds campers, whenever there is moments of conflict that arise,
we can design all we want. But the variable there is people. And we, each one of us have universes inside of us, you know, and so you can put them on buckets and be like, okay, cool. You guys work together? No, it doesn't operate like that, you know, like, like, there has to be intention on both parties. Like, okay, well, we're gonna we're gonna work together.
So with any project involving potential money and real deadlines, to hit as a collective, it can kind of add a lot of pressure and tension, right, feel like money kind of makes everything a little more sensitive. Especially when it's an experiment. We don't really know how the end is gonna come out.
Yeah, Matt's been thinking about a lot of this as well,
like, just because we're working on things that have albeit arbitrary, but still, like effective deadlines, and we want to hit and we want to, like do things, you know, the most important thing I think is like the human and like communication aspects of that, and those should always be put forth, or put put first.
So as we go along and camp chaos, we may encounter many creative differences, which definitely requires some mediation arbitration, which is something that Mark already deals with, right? Yeah, Mark's dealing with it.
I'm not too sure if I'm comfortable to say this and to be released in public, but I've already had those conversations. It is productive, generative conflict, I would say. I mean, most of us really shy away from conflict because it's so uncomfortable. You know? But it needs to be done.
Okay, well that hits. Oh,
what do you mean by that?
I've just been on other side. Oh, you know, I've been on all the sides of creative projects, honestly working with creatives being the creative, where one does not want to engage and talk through the conflict have also been that person. And then there's just walls that form. And like when the walls form in creative collaboration, it's like, a stalemate. It's like,
you can't really move forward on that creative project with your collaborator for not addressing the problem. Right, exactly.
I have that anxiety because I want everything to be harmonious. But in reality, just because you've done X, it will become y. No, it doesn't like humans, when you actually put humans in a container. There's always all these things. It's always unknown. You can't calculate their behavior. Yeah.
That's why equals rainbows. Yes. Or fire? Exactly, exactly. One of the reasons why I love song camps so much. And it's because of how we have and how, like, the core team has handled conflict. Because what I have seen and witnessed and been able to, like voice myself, is a safe space to openly talk about conflict, to be heard, and to move forward in a way where everybody is listened to and affirmed. And I think that's something that like, it's scary, but it seems like, like you and the people of this org, who are running it really hold that space of growth that comes from conflict, and how like, it doesn't have to be scary
to hold our community members with tenderness, grace and care. Especially when we're dealing with conflicts, you know.
But I guess being the holder of that, is hard.
It's hard. It's hard. Yeah.
Because it's like, where there's the question of like, where do you put that energy?
When you are a creative when you are an artist, like holding on to that kind of energy? I would imagine, like, prevents you from moving forward with your craft, you know,
absolutely. And then slap on money on like, if there's payment involved, it just makes the process way more emotional.
It's kind of it's funny that way, like art and commerce, you know, the hand in hand.
Yeah. Why? Right? But, like, only way of like, oh, like, like, that's why this all has to be so different. And like talking through conflict is great. Being transparent with money is great. You know, there doesn't have to be secrets. And I feel like a money. And our has been so secretive before. But in this space, it feels like that's completely different. And then also, like, we're all talking about the money involved in this project upfront, which makes it wildly different as well. You know,
you feel like it makes it kind of makes you feel like you're being valued. Right off the bat. Like, yeah, giving that level of trust and transparency, to trust that you will create something beautiful and, you know, allowing you that part of your humanity. That is it's cool. It's very like, it's what makes this experiment. That's what makes this experiment so no, I want to know what happens next.
I felt I felt every thing that I've felt in web three. Before web three, yeah, juxtaposed over different situations.
That's our resident philosopher will.
My name is Wil Jergens. I reside like an hour north of Pittsburgh. I use I sing, I write.
He's also a guide and member of the Lore team at Camp chaos. Like web
three isn't unlocking a new layer of human emotions.
Yeah,
we all have the same emotions we had before. It's just like, different tools and a different framework for placing.
To close out the initial chaos radio interviews are true. tarot cards for each person during Max reading we drew white which be the light. Winter, take care of your needs, and protection Guardian drop your shields. For my interpretation, it seems like the way that camp chaos can. Everybody who's in it can find harmony is is by trusting themselves by like Holding, holding space for independent emotions that happen and pop up but also like if needed, like hold space for the feelings of others as well. Finding a balance and continually like connecting back to like we're all doing this together. Because we believe in each other and we believe in ourselves. And just like I guess Yeah, giving us each this space to just be authentic with who we are in the moment. And if we can allow that, then that will like guide the light and each of us to make something incredible.
I'm just so excited. Like, the amount of intention it's like at the front end of the foundation of the experience for about hunger take like it's so very strong. And well boy, and no idea what to expect. And just like I'm so grateful to be a part of
song camp seems like such a lovely welcoming place. I can totally see why you were drawn to it last year and I'm stoked to be here. It's gonna be so fun.
We are so stoked to have you here
This episode was brought to you by seven areas Goddess of discord and chaos. Craig bot now functions overly PAC timeline, shamanic hallucinatory visuals, and great weather for
this episode was executive produced and edited by Levi Downey. Production in Surrey help from Julie West and young Spielberg CO produced and narrated by Jada blooms and myself mastered by Connor Dalton theme music by Josh Libby. Additional music by Matthew chain. Chris Miller gradient marker ditto Jack in the way ribeye downy and Wiltshire and special thanks to Geoffrey Bassinger Matthew Kai portal opener song camp and Papa jam. And last but not least