603. 2025 Social Trends That Matter - We Need Your Light (Jeff Shuck)

8:08PM Feb 11, 2025

Speakers:

Jonathan McCoy

Becky Endicott

Jeff Shuck

Keywords:

2025 social trends

conscious leadership

crisis of consciousness

community

optimism

self-care

practice

light

authenticity

mirth

joy

leadership development

social impact

Plenty Consulting

Lantern Retreat.

Hey, Becky, what's happening? Hey, Jon. I have been completely digging our 2025, social impact trends that matter. So welcome back. This one's special. I mean, I say, you know, all of our trends are like all of our children are wonderful, dearly. But this one is really, really special. And this one is for you friends, and so I want to give a special thanks to I donate for sponsoring this series, because this is where you're coming today, friends, to exhale and get connected, get grounded and find hope. Yep,

and every time we have Jeff shuck who is our special guest today in the house, that's what he brings, is an exhale, and I'll say for us, specifically, our lives have been so personally changed by the work of Jeff and his partner, Jennifer Mulholland, their work through plenty consulting, not just in the words that they say, but in how they show up, how they look you in the eyes, put their hands on your shoulders and look at you and Say, I believe in you, and these words have personally shifted so much for me, and that's what I hope we bring you with this trend. And I even I think calling it a trend feels way not important enough for what this really means. But the words that that we're bringing today is we need your light. And Jeff shuck not only is an author of leading with light, which is a book that needs to be in your queue, talking about how conscious leaders can lean into kind of the next phase of how to go deeper in that work. But he's blending his experience in leadership development and social impact strategy, and he ran a fundraising firm event 360 for more than a decade, raising a billion dollars for charity. So he knows what he's talking about, and in this moment, Becky, and I can't think of a better way to look at you, friends, put our hands on your shoulders and say, we need your light in this moment. And so Jeff, to have you in the house means the world. Thanks for being on the podcast today, and we're sending love to Jen who wants to be here.

You're the best. Thank you so much for having us, and I'm going to say us, because my my partner and plenty's other principal, Jennifer is feeling sick today, so get well soon, Jen and it's it's so great to see you both. Thank you so much for having us and for featuring this conversation. The whole series that you've done this year has been excellent and must listen to. So I want to just plug your own podcast for your listeners. Some of the episodes to go back, they've really been some of the best content in this sector. And I think you've, you've outdone yourself this this year so far. Oh

gosh, Thanks, friend. I mean, yeah, to have you in specifically this conversation just truly does mean the world. And so as we lean into talking about light today, I want to begin with something you talk about in your book, which is a crisis of consciousness. Wondering if we could start there. You know, can we talk about the intersection of conscious leadership in our world today? And y'all we're recording this in the heat of 2025 the world today is something fierce. So where would you go with that? Jeff, where does that stir up?

Um, yeah, let's, I mean, let's just start with the big things, right? Let's talk about the crisis right away. You know, here's what I would say to that. And I think you're pulling the question. I believe the first chapter of our book is called a crisis of consciousness, if I'm remembering correctly. We, I think especially in this sector, we're pretty attuned to the crises that are happening around us. We see that the climate crisis, we talk about it all the time. We see the impacts of it. We talk about maybe the consensus crisis. You could call it, the inability we seem to have to find common ground with people who we used to call friends or we used to call neighbors. What we would say is those, those overt crises, are actually foundationally related to this, this other, more subtle crisis that's happening in all of us, and that's happening in our lives, which is a crisis of running from, a crisis of trying to disconnect ourselves from what is a crisis of thinking that we're not capable of dealing with pain or current events or people who aren't like us, and so that's the crisis of consciousness that we point to in the book. Is this, this need that we all feel like we have, from time to time, to run from, instead of settling in seeing what is being present to knowing that we're strong enough, capable enough to take what the world has to offer us, and that that we have to be able to take what the world has to offer us as it is for us to make it better, right? We can't. We can't make the change that we all want to see if we can't first see things as they are, but when we're constantly trying to numb that away, or excuse that away, or or look the other way, we can't actually do the work that we all want to have happen. So that was a big answer. I'll see. What you what you do with that in response, that's that's where I'd go with that, Jon, I

thank you for positioning it that well, that way and so well, because I'm going to be completely honest with the audience, like I have felt the paralysis of the moment at times. I'm an optimist. I'm Jon, and I have called ourselves ridiculous optimists for years, and it's hard sometimes when messages and are hitting you from every which way, and there is so much fear, there is so much fear, and it is very easy to retreat and isolate away. And that, I think, is I understand why we all have to do that, because I do think that there's some grounding that needs to happen and some reflection, but we need you to come out and grab each other's hands, and I think that that is what you're calling out. And I think the need to to be fearful and to stay in our whole is going to be really tempting, but we have seen how community, kindness, getting connected, getting curious, finding common ground in new and different ways is going to be the thing that brings us all back together. And I just have to think about leaders in this moment who are really trying to rise up. They're trying to inspire their teams. They're trying to make things more steady, like talk to us about some of the through lines that you're seeing, Jeff between leaders you're working with through your coaching, or maybe at the lantern retreats. What are you seeing that leaders are navigating today. What are they struggling with? What? What would you guide them on?

You know, we are kind of who we surround ourselves with, and I think you just expressed a lot Becky of what we hear from people. I think there's there's confusion from some people. There's a yearning for more from people. There's a wanting to be optimistic. There's a knowing that that's needed. And I think some people feel deeply unsettled and uncertain and kind of maybe what we've really lived through, especially if you're at a certain age and a certain point in your career, what we've seen in the last 10 years, particularly since COVID, is this deeply unsettling, knowing of something that's always been true, which is, there's actually not much that's bankable. You know, there's so much is ephemeral, so much is transitory, and we were surrounded by change, but we're deeply resistant to it, right? And I think that's been exposed. I think it's harder and harder for people not to see, whoa, the things that I really depend on and honestly take for granted, fade away. Now, we've had this conversation before and on this podcast, and personally, and I think that was I was disavowed of that earlier than most people, because I lost my parents when I was much younger, and seeing that change happen to me really had a huge impact on me. Not all, not all negative, not all positive, either or, I think, at a at a younger age than most people, I realized, wow, things, things change really quickly, and yet like that could make us really cynical too, and we're called to be more optimistic than ever. So I think that's one thing that we're trying to help people unpack is okay if I how do I? How do I hold both spaces? How do I hold really loosely on this experience that is life, knowing that governments change, people change, institutions change, and yet, the only way I can act as a human being and really do my part is to engage with the world even as it's changing around me and and how do I create attachments and build relationships and show and experience love, knowing it might fade away or that It will fade away. And so these are deep topics, right? And that gets expressed in, I think honestly, the first conversations are usually about stress, or I need to feel calmer at work, or I need to have more security in my abilities. But really, they all kind of come from the same well of there's change all around us. I wish it weren't so, but it is. And how do I relate to that? And how do I relate to myself in that experience? So it's kind of deep things that we get to pretty quickly. I think in our conversations.

I mean, yeah, we got to double click in here, Jeff, because. And you know, the question, are we feeling burned out? Yes. I mean, from talking to people in our community, that is just the reality of so many people in our sector. Are they feeling overwhelmed? I hear that almost every day in conversations with friends in the space. And I think the effect of that is that, you know, we started this trend, and we're going to talk about light. I don't want to miss the light here, but it's, it's, it's easy to feel like your light is dimmed when you just have so much burden, and even as you become aware and you're stepping into that awareness, I think it's easy to feel like your light is being dimmed. What do you tell somebody, and you're such a gifted teacher in these hard moments, what do you say to somebody that's just feeling the overwhelm and they feel stuck in

that? Yeah, I think, I think there's a few things. The first is, you know, you got to feel the feels. That's That's part of the the solution to this crisis that we're pointing to is allowing yourself to be present to what is and allowing yourself to say I can have I can have rough days, I can have rough weeks, I can have rough years. I can feel detached, I can feel unengaged. I can feel beaten down. I can feel, you know, downtrodden and not trying to talk yourself out of that, right, not not needing to immediately rescue yourself from stress. But if you can do that right, if we can practice just seeing what is right now, wow, this is, this is really stressful. Holy smokes. Like, I don't like this. I don't like what I'm doing. There's something on the other side of it that I think we don't often get to, and that's it's back to the kind of the crisis of being so unconscious all the time. You know, I want to kind of go back to this idea that we don't need to necessarily talk ourselves out of what is. We need to see what is. And part of the way through there is, I'm I'm trying to find the right, the right way to say this, because, because what I want to emphasize is what, what works for me isn't going to work for someone else, right? And and I think maybe to to interrupt myself, one of the things that I think is getting in the way a little bit there's a real fine line between self care and self absorption, and there's been an incredible and laudable increase in the amount of self care resources and self care talk there is in This space and every space, and I would say that is all a vehicle and a window to us being able to engage back into the world. It's not all about like retreating from so we can pamper ourselves. That's awesome, and that's a part of how we refresh and recharge. But there's a reason for the rejuvenation that we're seeking that's beyond just our own enjoyment. I'm not sure that this is making sense, so

it's making total sense. Can I just say this? I'm gonna I'm gonna share something personal and vulnerable with the group. I've had a really, really tough year, specifically the last six months, and I want to give the community a gift that Jeff gave to me last June, and it's just a phrase, and I was really struggling at the lantern, just having some awakenings and really feeling myself come back to life. And I remember Jeff taking my shoulders, looking me in the eye, and he says, You're not broken, friend, you're not and I want to pass that to you all, because we understand you're going to need some sanctuary to process, to to understand and to understand, to Jeff's point, what is true, what is real, and how to lean into this moment. But I we've been, you know, accused a couple times of being toxic optimist, but I think it's not that at all. I want to tell you that. I want you to do what makes you feel alive. We are surrounded by so much division and despair. And I think what's going to work for you is to go inside and find that thing that awakens and activates. And I don't know if you all are familiar with Howard Thurman, I'm following him very closely, and he has this really beautiful quote, and it says, the sound of the genuine is flowing through you. Don't be deceived and thrown off by all of the noises that are part of keeping you from embracing your dreams, your ambitions and your values you know who you are. So we need to learn how to steal ourselves in the moments that are chaotic and allow ourselves to bend in the wind when it gets violent, and to reach for each other and. Just think what you're saying, Jeff, and the in the way you're saying it, and the gentleness, but also the honesty, is what we need right now, and we need each other too. I mean, is that resonating? Yeah. And

I think, you know, I'd love to go further on that, because I I'm reflecting on what I said and how I said it, and I know it can sound really esoteric and kind of hard to get your hands around, so I actually want to get really practical with people, because I do think the first part of it is being present to what you feel right now and not trying to talk yourself out of it. Okay, that's, that's really what I was trying to say. Like, if you're stressed, own it. If you're feeling defeated, own it. You don't have to, like, rally yourself out of things right away. However, the other side of that is, you know, all the the gnashing of teeth and the rending of garments that you want to do, actually, you know, feel all the feels and do all of that. But don't mistake that for the constructive work of the world, or the constructive work that you're here to do, right? It the worrying and the whining has actually really low social utility. It might feel really good for you, and you might need to do it. So worry and whine all you need to, but then, like there is a Okay, and now get moving to it, and that's where I think optimism is a practice like that word that we use so much at lantern and that we use so much in our book, and it's used a lot in mindful leadership circles. Let's talk about the word practice when you when you hear it a lot it, it kind of loses its meaning and it becomes this arbitrary concept. But I want people to think about practice the way you think about practicing for a sport or practicing an instrument. You practice things that you want to get better at. You practice things that you're not great at. You practice things that you're excellent at, that you want to become superb at. And this kind of conscious leadership, this optimistic leadership, a mindful way of looking at the world in a more positive way is practice, which means that when you're feeling like defeated and depressed, instead of allowing yourself to the indulgence of going into that place for a year or a decade, the practice says, Well, I know that this is real For me, and I also know it's not constructive. So what could I do to make distance between myself and my thoughts? What could I do to do something constructive or additive for myself or my team? What do I need to do to rest and replenish so I can re engage? But the word practice, you know, it's not this fuzzy concept. And so much of this work ends up saying like, well, I didn't do it the way I wanted to yesterday. So today, I will consciously try to practice being more optimistic, not immediately reading the news, not getting caught in a doom scroll cycle, not gossiping with the person next to me, whatever it is you need to practice. But there is no way around like right now that, yes, be present to what you feel like. Don't deny it. I think that is one of the challenges is, is denying what, what's real to us, but then you have to practice something different, like just complaining and criticizing doesn't really help anything. And here's the I'll stop after this. Here's the here's the metaphor I've been thinking so much about. And you may have had an experience similar to this. Imagine going camping or hiking with some friends, or road tripping with some friends, or whatever, and you get hopelessly, horribly lost in the woods. You have no idea where you're gonna go, the sun setting. You're not sure who was supposed to be keeping directions, but nobody's doing it. And you find out, like, we're way back here. We're gonna probably have to sleep here for the night. And you know what was that? Was that thunder? Uh oh, oh, man, it might rain. And someone says, like, Okay, well, this sucks, but you know, maybe I can gather up some wood for a fire. And someone else is like, Oh yeah, okay, let me get some leaves. Let's find a place for all of us to sit. And someone else is like, I found a few rocks we can roll up here. There might be a cave over there. And the last person just talks about, I can't believe it's gonna rain. Oh, my God, we're stuck out here. It's never gonna work like it's not helpful, low

social utility. That is my new favorite phrase. Truly, it's

understandable, but it doesn't help anything. And the real thing to ask, and I think the key to conscious leadership is and is it helping you like are you? Are you in that place of worry and complaining and criticism and distance creation, because it's helping you in some way. Is it making you feel like you control something that you know that you don't? Is it making you feel like you have. Ways that you feel like isn't otherwise heard. You're doing it because it's giving you something which is, again, great, so maybe do that in your room to the wall. But then check out, is it helping the people around me? And I think that's the second part of like, where a lot of people are feeling that feels like the tough love that we need to speak into power right now. Yeah, like, social critique, great. It's never easy. Been easier to be a pessimist. It's never been so easy to be in the cheap seats. You know, there are so many cheap seats. So like, we need some people to get back on the field and, like, I don't even care what what your issue is, or what side of the aisle you are, but you just harping about how things aren't going to work anymore. It has no relevance to me. It really doesn't. So I hope I'm making it a little more practical for people, because I don't want to just be out in this place of like, well, it's about practice. And it's about like, you know, there's, there's real tools to try every day and and, you know, when you're feeling lost just waking up and standing and putting two feet on the ground, I know Jennifer would say this if she were here, like allowing yourself to be fully, physically embodied. That is an act. So like, do that, if that's all you can do. Awesome. And the next day, walk three steps. And the next day, like, make yourself a cup of coffee. But whatever you need to do to see progress for yourself, we need your part. Jeff.

I mean, the fact that this episode is dropping following Monday's episode with Lindsay fuller on the rise of the change leader, feels so imperative right now, because you put this together that you're right. There's so many cheap seats. We don't need more of those seats filled, but we do need people who are embodied, who are bringing their light in this time when it's hard to find it. And I want to give space for you to talk about light, because Becky alluded to this. And you know, we've spent time last summer with you in y'all actual retreat space in Park City, working through the lantern retreat, which is all about finding your light, and, you know, figuring out how to, like, pour into that and reflect it outward. And I wonder if you would give just a moment of pause to say, what is that, you know, for somebody listening that's like, oh, I want more of that purpose. I want to be more in tune. What is that light? I mean, talk about it. And how can people identify it for themselves and step into it?

Yeah, I appreciate the question, because I have a feeling I was ranting there for a little bit, and

I loved every single word of that, and I and I want to thank you for it, because we are an activating community. It is about the doing. It is not just about the listening or the reflecting. It is about the doing. And I feel like you brought us back to that. So keep going.

Yeah, I think thank you. And this is probably the time to say, you know, I'm on the same path as everybody else. I'm learning. I'm trying to be better. I'm trying to keep my energy up, all of it. And so I'm practicing too. But, you know, practice starts with making it important to practice, saying, like, Okay, today I'll I'll try something different if it didn't work. I think, Jon, to your question, what is light? What? What do we mean? How do we find it? We mean a variety of things. I mean at the core, we mean your soul, your spark. The essence of God is how I describe it, the thing that is incarnate in you that makes you special in who you are. And we believe you get clues to it. You get clues and the things that you get passionate about, that that light you up, that that make you smile, the things that make you upset, the places where you see injustice, are clues to your light. The places where you you find just mirth, are accused clues to your light. And I think the fundamental idea that we are proposing for people to try on, right to take out for a spin is what if the world is waiting for you to realize that you matter? What if? What if that's the invitation is for you to realize you don't have to play every part. You just need to play yours, though, because if you don't play yours, no one else can do it. You don't have to be great at everything be you figure out what that means and then express it and figure out how to meld that and combine that and integrate that with all the other yous out there who are or just as needed. And that, I think, is, is the question in the. What we mean by trying to be more conscious, trying to be more awake. Of like, what do I really care about? What's really being asked of me? And what if they're the same, right? What if? What if the things that I, I most love to do, that, that I'm, I'm most great at, are the things that are most needed, and I'm the only one who can provide those. And see this is where it comes back to like the pessimism or the discouragement or the cynicism, if, if you put yourself on the bench, to keep using bad football analogies, since we just watched that Super Bowl, there's no one else to fill your spot. Yeah? And we give ourselves these conceits, like, I'm not great at it. Oh, everybody else can do what I can do. Like, no, you're letting yourself off the hook. Like we need you to be you. And so if you say, like, I'm too discouraged now, like, that place goes unfilled. So like, I think a lot of the practice now for people who are discouraged is, again, if you have to start by waking up, then start by waking up, like, give yourself points for setting the alarm and getting up. Okay, you know, at some point you do it enough, and then it's get it gets easier, and then you realize I didn't need points. And, oh, by the way. Nobody's keeping score, and it's all meaningless, except for how I relate to what I'm here to do and how I help other people. So I do think this is the way through again, whatever side of the political aisle you are, whoever you voted for, I really don't care. I honestly don't what I care about is a constructive place where we work together, where we find ways that we're united, that we don't profit over dividing each other or criticizing each other. So I think those are all parts of the practice. But I think you know what you're like at your best, and don't keep yourself from that. Don't stand in your own way. You know, tap yourself on the head. Call your own number. It's for you to live the way that you are. You're allowed to do in this place for this bit of time that you have. And God bless you, that you're someone listening to this podcast that that feels like part of your life is helping other people around you. I mean, God bless you for that, because we need more of that. So I'll stop there. I hope. I'm I'm, hope I'm answering your question.

I feel so much hope and light in this conversation. Jeff shook and I said, shook because can we keep it in? Because I got Jeff shook. I got seriously Jeff shook with this entire conversation. But the quote that's coming up for me right now, and don't mock me, but this is the one from Dr Seuss today. You are you that is truer than true. There is no one alive who is you were than you. And if you want to feel some calm friends, feel the calm knowing that in this space and in this world, the best version of yourself is the authentic version of yourself, and that is true, and that is what you can hold on to, and that your light is within, that your authentic being, and that is the person that we want to step forward into this moment. We want you to step forward even if you're not sure, even if you're not sure which way to step. Is it forward? Is it side? Is it back? We want you to take a step, like Jeff just said, if it's three, if you just need to put your feet on the ground day one. But we need you to step forward, because you are uniquely positioned to meet this moment, because you chose to do work that has meaning and has purpose. And we need every single body and heart in it. And we do need your light. And I think this has just been a very centering and grounding and reaffirming conversation for me, that this is the space where I feel like I can be the most like Becky. And so I hope you feel that too, and I hope the We Are For Good space is always that for you. But Jeff, I we got to end up this conversation and round it out with a one good thing. You've been on the podcast enough to know we're going to want you to bring it all home. What's percolating for you, as we round out today Well,

before I answer that, I do want to just say one more time. I hope I'm not lecturing, because that has low social utility as well. I hope people can hear where I'm coming from, which is to call to call everyone, to trusting themselves and to believing that they're here for a reason. And that's enough. You know, that's what we need. I'm going to tell I'm going to go really specific on my one good thing, because I have been on the. Podcast before, and every time I've been on, I've been annoyed at how I've answered this question. So I have something

very Jon, and I feel that every time. So

I have something very specific. Then I'm going to pull into a larger theme. My one big thing spend, my one good thing is also a big thing. Specifically, is a book called We solve murders that found me from by Richard. Yes, keep going, we solve murders. Okay, I don't read murder mysteries. I never would have picked up this book. I was listening to a random like gaming podcast months ago, and somebody started raving about this book. And I was like, ah, what the hell. And I will tell you, my family makes fun of me because I'm the guy that on, like, you know, the cruise vacation is reading the history of maritime supremacy, or is reading like, the origins of gunpowder. I mean, I am that

guy, Jon like reading Apple or entrepreneurial books like,

or like self help books, like so many books that are 70 pages in and never so I would say I never read mysteries like that's not my thing. But maybe I need to try something new. Maybe I need to practice something new. I tore through this book in a day and a half on New Year's. It's so sweet. It's so surprisingly delightful. It's funny, it's touching, it's a great story. It's gripping, and it made me realize I am so distanced from just mirth, not like humor that is satire, or not humor that's biting social critique or just light heartedness. And light heartedness is one of my trends for this year. Optimism is at the top, mirth, joy, laughing because it's funny, not because you're trying to get some deeper meaning. And that is my one big thing. I highly recommend it. It was so fun to be reading a book and literally laughing out loud and having my whole family laughing just because they saw me laughing. And that's like a small example of what we can do when we decide to be intentional about how we show up when we choose the brave choice of being optimistic, believing in ourselves and everyone around us, people key off of that. People are better and brighter because we decide to be so that's my thing, and I highly recommend this book, by the way. It's delightful.

I have added it to my Goodreads. It is by Richard Osman, O, S, M, a n, and while we're putting in recommendations for books that make you laugh to your toes, check out The Rosie Project and get the audio books so you can enjoy that. I also laughed out loud, and I agree with you. I think more laughter, more joy, more filling our soul, is going to give us more impetus to take more steps into that activation. So I just adore you, buddy.

I know every time you're in our house, our heart is so dang full. Thank you for this time. I mean, okay, Jeff, how can folks connect with you? How can they connect with plenty, which I got in the work this year, in the works, which I'll do, you're

the best. You're the best. Julie, too, who's who's there somewhere. And Jen, I want to say again, Jennifer and Sierra and the plenty team, wish they could be here.

Hi, Sierra.

Really, really appreciate the space that you create and the intentionality that you you go about the work that you do. So thank you for having us here. You can always find us at plenty consulting.com the book that we've mentioned a few times is called leading with light. You can find it on Amazon or wherever good books are sold, as they say, and if, for some reason, you like this voice that you're hearing right now, you can actually hear the audio version of the book that Jennifer and I read that was released in December. And maybe the coolest thing to just share, if I have 30 more seconds, is by popular demand. So many people who've come to lantern, or who've worked with us, or who've consulted with us have said, like, can we just do some kind of regular meeting? So we are starting a meeting last Friday of every month called Awesome hour. It's free, nothing to sign up for last Friday, 1am Eastern, 10am Pacific. There is a link on our website if you go to plenty consulting.com/awesome hour, and it's just a time to be in community on an open virtual call. Have a little curriculum. We'll kind of explore things like this, how people are feeling, where they're sitting, and would be a great compliment every month after you after you could listen to the 12 episodes of We Are For Good that month. To come on to awesome hour and say hello, so, but, but mainly, like I, what I, what I want people to take away is, is how much they matter, where they are. And it's not really what you all are doing or what we're doing at plenty. It's what you the listener are doing matters and we need it. So thank you for being here too and contributing in the way that only you can.

You all make our hearts full. We are definitely going to socialize that resource, because, again, this is free support in community to help you grow. And I'm even going to put in one more plug. Jon, Julie and I will be at the lantern retreat in Park City, September 16 through the 19th of this year. Come hang out with us like Come join us. If you have professional development dollars to pour into yourself, I will say it was the most grounding and moving thing I did in 2024 was going to the lantern retreat. So we will link that up as well. Well, you pass along our love to Jennifer and Sierra and thank you for bringing so much light and warmth into this house as you always do. Thanks

so much love you guys. Love you back.