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Eyeway Conversations with Apoorv Kulkarni

Shilpi Kapoor20min

Eyeway Helpdesk

00:07

This podcast is brought to you by BarrierBreak Solutions Private Limited and Score Foundation.

George Abraham

00:32

Hi, my name is George Abraham and welcome to Eyeway Conversations. My guest today is Apoorv Kulkarni who is a qualified chartered accountant, an MBA from the United States and he is the Head Accessibility and Inclusion with Ola Mobility Institute. So Apoorv, you were talking to me about a research project that you were on recently, and the report has just been published. It has something to do with accessible transportation so tell us a little bit about this report.

Apoorv Kulkarni

01:03

On November 16, we released a report titled "On The Move"- urban travel experiences of persons with disabilities and a path to build more inclusive transport systems. What this report essentially targetted is it takes a look at the travel experiences of people, men and women both, who live with the disability, how it affects their journey, what are the nuances, and we've done that quite comprehensively. So we've partnered with eight organizations with a collective experience of over 200 years. Through them, we have conducted semi structured interviews and focused group discussions of men and women living with disability across three groups, so locomotor disability, visual disability, and hearing loss. And we've done this for three modes of transport, which would be urban rail, which include metros and local trains, the bus systems and intermediate public transport, which would include your taxis and autos, both the old fashioned ones that you hail on the street, and more contemporary ones, which you hail using a mobile phone. This report was released by Honorable Minister Ramdas Athawaleji, who is from the Ministry of Social Justice and Empowerment and we kind of been really fortunate that we could cover these nuanced journeys, make recommendations to improve accessibility of transport systems. And we're really happy that it has been received very very open heartedly by the government, by civil society, by the likes of World Bank and United Nation and other, so we really hope that this report sets the stage to make urban transport systems more accessible for persons with disabilities.

George Abraham

03:00

I'd be interested in knowing as to what were some of the key findings by different disability groups to all these three modes of transport that you talked about.

Apoorv Kulkarni

03:11

We've seen that there is some effort done to improve accessibility of transport systems here and there. So you do have you know, some metro stations becoming accessible, you do have you know, some buses being wheelchair friendly and so on. But what we really found out through our interviews and through our focused group discussions is that these siloed approaches don't you know, don't yield the full benefit, it doesn't yield the complete return on investment. And that's because it's not just important to make one section of a trip accessible, but you really need to take a holistic approach, you need to look at it from end to end, from toe to toe. And so when you think about transport accessibility improvements, you have to think about everything from you know the planning stage, the stage wherein you get to the boarding station, you actually board the vehicle, the in-transit phase, the part where you would want to get off the vehicle safely, paying for the trip and if a situation so arises the ability to file a complaint and get it redressed satisfactorily. So we need to make all of these elements are accessible and we need to take a holistic approach when it comes to accessibility within transport systems and that's, you know like that's one of the highlights that we have tried to convey.

George Abraham

04:44

You did speak to people, stakeholders who are people with disability. Did you also speak to stakeholders who are service providers? That's one and did you also get a chance to bring service providers and end users to get on the same table and interact?

Apoorv Kulkarni

05:01

This is a very good next step. This report was primarily a perception study, we wanted to get the voice of the user in, really understand those nuances. But we also realized that you know we need to get voices from the other side also heard. We've had peer reviewers across the board from civil society, from funding organizations such as World Bank, from academia and universities, go through our findings and really comment on that, help us understand, you know how the experiences documented are affected by practicalities, etc. And we've tried to incorporate all of those findings in the report. But as we go ahead, I think you know there's no way but to get the stakeholders on a common platform so that they can exchange their views and help each other understand the boundaries within working in the expectations that are most important for those people, their needs that are most important. And you know that's the way to bring about improvements within accessibility and inclusion of mobility systems.

Eyeway Helpdesk

06:27

If you know of anyone with vision impairment, who needs guidance on living life with blindness, please share the Eyeway national toll free helpline number 1800-532-0469, the number is 1800-532-0469.

George Abraham

06:56

Moving away from the report Apoorv, you have been visually impaired for a long time in your life, so when did it actually first occur to you or your family that you had an eye problem? What exactly is the diagnosis?

Apoorv Kulkarni

07:09

I'm diagnosed with a condition called macular dystrophy, what it basically does for me that it you know restricts my central vision. These symptoms came about when I was roughly seven years of age, second standard of my schooling. For me, I think the loss in eyesight was pretty rapid. I'd say within a period of three to six months, there was significant vision loss for me, and to the extent that I wasn't able to function independently in the classroom in the sense that I wasn't able to read from the blackboard, even if I was to set really close to it. And you know I grew up in a town called Nagpur, Maharashtra, we really did not have a lot of understanding within the school system, within the administration, to help navigate these life changing moments. So my parents took me to doctors, we ran multiple tests and we tried multiple avenues, everything from allopathy, ayurveda, homeopathy and what not right. To really get a sense of what's happening and is there a remedy to it. Eventually we were told that this is the condition, it's irreversible condition.

Apoorv Kulkarni

07:22

So I believe Apoorv, there was a point in time that your family decided to shift from not poor to Mumbai. Was it a strategic decision and how did it happen?

Apoorv Kulkarni

08:46

So this was around about, I think year 2000, I was about to enter 9th standard which is you know one of those critical years. And we moved from Nagpur to Mumbai because we believed that the infrastructure and support system was more equipped to support people like me and my younger brother, who also lived with a similar disability. And it was a strategic decision because for my father who was you know a scientist working with the National Environmental Engineering Research Institute, it was quite a dramatic move. He was doing really well for himself and was on a path to you know really really become the head of the institution in some time. He made that strategic sacrifice because he wanted to set us up for success as individuals. My mother you know like fully supported him and it's somewhat tricky to make the transition from a tier two city to metropolis like Mumbai, right. So he did that and he made a complete transition in his career from being a scientist and an engineer to being a lecturer. And you know but that also allowed us to get access to school systems, which was more empathetic, more mature in terms of developing a support system around us.

Eyeway Helpdesk

10:30

To support our work with the blind and visually impaired, you can visit the donate page on our website, www.scorefoundation.org.in. Please note www.scorefoundation.org.in

George Abraham

10:56

You chose to take up chartered accountancy, that's an area which most visually impaired people might want to stay away from.

Apoorv Kulkarni

11:04

So after my 10th standard examination, we were like any other student, I was confronted with this question of what stream of education would I want to go in. And I was fascinated by business, economics, commerce, etc. So that's the route that I went in. And you know my advisors, my mentors, introduced me to chartered accountancy. So that's really what... that was a default choice. And I probably kind of credit this mentality to again my parents because they really instilled that belief in me to take on bold endeavors, bold challenges. And you know, my father says this, I don't know if it's his original line or he has a adapted it from somewhere. He basically you know, said to us "not failure, but low aim is crime" and that really motivated me to take this up.

George Abraham

12:15

So I've actually met people who've taken several attempts to clear these exams, how many attempts did you take?

Apoorv Kulkarni

12:21

You're going to embarrass me George, I think I managed to clear all my examinations in first attempt, except for the second level of examination, there are three levels. The second level, I think, I took one more attempt. But yeah largely was able to, was really fortunate enough to be able to get through them in the first go. And obviously, you know was very very supported by friends, family. I really couldn't have done it without them. Teachers who guided me, I think the success is as much theirs as not more as mine.

George Abraham

13:04

So once you cleared your CA, did you actually practice as a chartered accountant or work for somebody?

Apoorv Kulkarni

13:13

So I did my articleship with KPMG, which is one of the big four firms and managed to land on a really coveted spot over there. I worked in their audit practice within the financial services line of business. And once I was able to clear my final exam, I continued with them basically. And yeah I think I spent about if I'm not mistaken 5 years over there roughly, doing audit and consulting. Really fun times.

George Abraham

13:50

What prompted you to want to do an MBA and you've done your MBA from Stanford. So what was that shift like?

Apoorv Kulkarni

13:58

After spending a few years in the firm in KPMG, I was feeling like I wanted to try out something new. So I decided to you know, take another leap of faith and joined a startup which produced audio books in India and you know, I had really seen how technology and audio was really instrumental in shaping my journey. I wanted to be a part of the team that democratized that experience. So that's how I joined this company called bookTALK. And when I was working with them, we were really trying everything, trying all sorts of tactics, techniques to produce audiobooks to sell them, to get them in the hands of user, get feedback from the users, learn, iterate, and so on. And that's the time that you know, I realized I think that hey there is there is a lot about business that I don't think I know very well. And you know you could imagine how that would be for a young person who has you know, managed to scale some heights and has been a consultant and you know, has really had his confidence built up. And again, you know, walking around with a chip on his shoulder, that I really know a lot of things. And that was really a humbling experience. So that's what prompted me to really take a hard look and say, hey listen, if you don't know as much about business as you would lik, and you would want to you know, understand how various facets of business work together, would you think it would be worthwhile to you know, go and do an MBA. And you know as the thought occurred to me, I consulted my mentors, I consulted my parents back home and it sounded like a good approach. So I applied to a bunch of schools and was fortunate enough to be accepted at Stanford, which was really my choice school, and learned a ton about everything and all the complexities of the business, how the system works together, everything from production, to sales, to customer relationship management, design you know, a bunch of stuff. So that I think, really enriched my perspective as a result of that experience.

Apoorv Kulkarni

15:12

You know, most visually impaired or blind students that I know who have gone to the US to study further tend to stay on, what prompted you to come back to India?

Apoorv Kulkarni

17:04

That's a good question, George, going abroad and studying was something that I had never imagined growing up. You know, I mean forget going abroad and studying, going abroad was a concept that I had never imagined. The family and and people that we grew up with, we did not have many examples or role models for ourselves. So this was really a rich goal for us. And for a variety of reasons right, I mean, the goal is pretty audacious. It involves a lot of you know, financial commitment, it requires you to suspend your career, which means you are suspending your source of income for a while. These were similar challenges that I was presented with. I think what made all the difference for me is I managed to secure a fellowship from Reliance Industries, it's called a Reliance Stanford Dhirubhai Ambani Fellowship. And under this fellowship, there's a competitive process, they choose up to five people to sponsor every year, to go and do an MBA at Stanford and I was you know I was fortunate enough to be one of the beneficiaries. The only requirement of that fellowship is that you come back and work in India. And so that's one of the reason that I came back. But there's also another reason which is I have always been thankful for the resources that the country has you know, has bestowed on me and I was very clear that you know, we need to come back and make the changes that we wish for ourselves. So for example when I went to the US, and saw her transport systems were far more robust as you put it, I was completely blown away by how that you know, really opened up my life, what opportunities it could have made available to me, and I was very keen that those similar interventions be brought about here in India. So that's one of the reasons that I came back. So it's really, you know, one of those belief systems that guides you and as they say, it's really incumbent on the best of us to serve the rest of us. And that's also a reason why I came back and I'm happy that I came back and I get an opportunity to build systems and infrastructure over here in India, which will set up many others for success and to you know so greater heights.

George Abraham

19:59

On the one hand, the fellowship required you to come and on the other hand, you actually wanted to claw back what you learned and what you were exposed to in the US to better systems in India not only for people with disability but even for the general population. So wonderful speaking with you Apoorv thank you so much for giving me the time.

Apoorv Kulkarni

20:25

Thank you, George.

Eyeway Helpdesk

20:32

This podcast was brought to you by BarrierBreak Solutions Private Limited and Score Foundation.

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