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Episode 5.03 MP3 | Otter.ai

Episode 5.03 MP3

Your Highness Podcast24min

Unknown Speaker

00:00

Hey folks, this is Diana,

Speaker 1

00:02

your host before you listen to this episode, I have an announcement. I was recently given the awesome opportunity to be the guest editor of Canada curious magazines fall issue. That's right. I guest edited the fall issue of the gorgeous Canna curious magazine. In case you don't know about this magazine, Canna curious normalizes cannabis lifestyle for women through fact based information, relatable personal stories and verified products. Their goal is to enlighten women about the variety of ways cannabis can enhance all areas of their lives, from sex to beauty, nutrition, health and wellness and much more. This is an awesome issue. And if you've ever listened to this podcast, you may recognize some people that are in this special anniversary edition. So please, please support this awesome group of women by subscribing and also ordering your print copy which will be available mid September, but you can pre order it two weeks early. So go to canon curious mag.com that's Canna curious mag comm to subscribe to their newsletter, follow them on social media, and buy the latest copy and past issues. Check out their past issues because they're wonderful. And please just continue to support independent media, and especially media run by women and non binary folks. Welcome to Your Highness Podcast, a show where we get comfortable with the uncomfortable uncover areas of cannabis where accessibility and inclusiveness are lacking and elevate conversations about ways to affect real change in this space with a specific focus on folks who identify as women.

Speaker 1

02:10

You're listening to Your Highness Podcast. This is your host Diana crash and today I am joined by cannabis regulatory lawyer, Jessica mcelfresh Did I say that correctly? I'm like I know I didn't do that. There you go. How are you doing today Jessica?

Speaker 2

02:33

Oh, I'm moving on. I'm I'm just impressed. Somebody got my last name right on the second try. It's Yeah, it's it's it's a it's a perfectly fine last name. It's memorable, but it always makes for some complications.

Speaker 1

02:46

Yeah, I have one of those as well. So we're going to start this episode as we do every episode with our recurring segment vape pot vape not pot where we each discuss our favorite cannabis and non cannabis related item, movement, movie book, whatever you want at the moment. And I don't normally talk about specific strains but I'm going to start with my fav pot and I am going to talk about this string called burnt toast number four and I'm in Maryland so it might not be accessible everywhere but it says it's an indica and I mean it probably is but I believe it indika I'm skeptical No kidding. It's a good daytime or nighttime string I'm finding so I really like that and it doesn't give you a couch lock I'm finding it's like a good productivity strain for a day which is good too good for me. So what's your favorite pot item at the moment Jessica? Oh,

Speaker 2

03:56

I you know my favorite has been for a while is probably going to be the the Camino road galleons from Cuba. particularly fond of new live resin once? Oh, yeah. So I'm particularly the smaller cities. dominant ones I despite being a high throttle person, I find it better with sativa then then I IndyCar dominant strains. I thought yeah, yeah. I don't get along with the in the codominant ones. I don't know. Maybe it's maybe I don't like being told to slow down.

Speaker 1

04:38

Well, I think as we're finding out more and more about the, the truth behind sativas and indicas, we're going to find out that it's not necessarily you know, something that's going to make you more energetic throughout the day or more hyped up. I think it's just like a sensitivity to certain things, certain certain terpenes and other flower. I mean, I'm not assigned to store a botanist or grower or cultivator, but I think the more I do research about it and find out like how my body is, I think, and talking to people like recently, I interviewed someone who told me that she has OCD, and she needs to tivos to get inside of her head, well, I need to avoid citybus because it gets me way into my head like knots. I thought that was really interesting. Um, but anyway, we're gonna have to go on a whole discussion about that. But I think that's really something that we'll learn more about as we learn more about the profiles of strains and, and all these like things that I should say, as we unlearn the things that we've been told. For so long. So anyway, switching gears, my fav, not pot, I did pick something legal, because you're on and I thought maybe it was offensive, but we already know what it this the latest season of the good fight. Now, if you watch The Good Wife, I know you might roll your eyes at the idea of a prequal or spin off or whatever. But this is a completely different show. And I cannot get over how they're just willing to go all the way in on every like hot button topic right now, you know, as it occurs, you know, like, almost in real time. And anyway, I'm not spoiling anything, but they this they have met Mandy Patinkin playing this like make believe judge in this reality reality TV type courtroom. But it completely turns the idea of like, what we think is the justice system on on its head. And it's it's a very, very entertaining. Watch. I love it. I'm really into this new season. So I highlight why I recommend the whole thing all of the seasons. But this new season is really, really good. So what is your favorite nap pot? We

Speaker 2

07:03

could go on for a while lately. Lately, I've been enjoying a podcast called the trials of Fred Carson. It's not an upper but I think it's a story that deserves more attention. It's produced by the Los Angeles Times. And it relates to an effort by the government in California to prosecute not only a fairly well known local criminal defense attorney there, but members of his family, and somehow also people who are part of the highway patrol and some other local business owners in an alleged plot to have murdered local drifter. Why it doesn't move together. But it's a pretty fascinating in terms of their case, was a travesty. But it's a story that deserves a lot more attention, including I think people can sort of under consider the vast power of the government sorts of situations and really why we need to be so careful. And what we choose to prosecute and when and how and being very suspicious of when cases are brought with possibly less than pure motives and incredibly specious evidence.

Speaker 1

08:21

Wow, that sounds right up my alley. I'm adding that to my podcast list as soon as we end this. I love that type of podcast. That sounds exciting. I'm really excited to listen to it. Wow. So we are going to talk about a hot button topic of ourselves today, right? In many states, people are being fired for their cannabis use, even if they have a medical card or certification. For example, according to the Maryland medical cannabis commission where I am, Maryland law does not prevent an employer from testing for use of cannabis for any reason, or taking action against an employee who tests positive for use of cannabis for any reason. In your experience, are employees genuinely surprised when this happens?

Speaker 2

09:15

Yes, they are. That's also the case in California even though we passed prop 215 back in 1996. And at that point, we're the first in the nation to have a medical cannabis law. We were not the first obviously with adult use cannabis. But with prop 64 in 2016, but it still remains the case in California that medical cannabis qualified patients and also people using adult use cannabis. There's no employment protection. They can be fired if they test positive during a pre employment drug screening. Obviously, if they have certain safety sensitive jobs where they're routinely drug tests or other times people have jobs where they may be drug tested due to say, some type of minor accident in the workplace or some incident. Actually, it's been interesting over the years, the number of people who work in the medical field, who have called me not so much medical doctors, or even registered nurses, but more people who work in some of the support roles, say, in retirement home or things such as that. An a, it's often finding that they people are just very surprised, because they have this assumption that if something is legal under the laws of their state, right, that they can't be fired for using it are consuming it or using a medicinal and that is simply not the

Speaker 1

10:48

truth. Right. And even if you work for a cannabis company, like I know, here, I don't know what it is in California. But I know that people have been turned away from getting hired by cannabis companies because they tested positive for cannabis. And even if you have your card Now, now, some companies will say, okay, you have your card, but we need documentation and we need you need to show us that. But if you don't have your card, you're not getting hired by cannabis company. How wild is that?

Speaker 2

11:20

That's crazy. I can't say I've heard of that occurring within California cannabis companies. I don't know that it hasn't. But I can't say I've ever I've ever heard of it. But that that is? That's certainly that's that's actually ironic, in the real sense of the word, right? Because

Speaker 1

11:40

people are just so shocked. They're like, I what was the one job? I thought? Oh, no, it's not. And I mean, that's pretty much what's been happening alive. My husband's had issues hiring people because of it. So yeah, so does any does a person have any recourse once they are fired for this reason?

Speaker 2

12:01

So I'm not an expert on employment law. So what typically happens when somebody calls me in one of these situations is I explained to them the state of California cannabis laws, and that there's, there's no protection under the law, that it is that and all those things, and that as a result, they're not going to find much protection there. I do usually encourage them to speak to an employment law attorney simply to ensure that For instance, if it was a case where they were tested following or workplace accident or something, but all of the proper rules and channels were followed. Same with other types of situations there. There may be something within employment laws about how the process was was was conducted, that could offer them some relief. But in terms of simply the, the cannabis piece of it. No, there there really is not.

Unknown Speaker

12:58

Wow,

Speaker 1

12:59

I mean, even if you have a medical card, and you have like a chronic illness that's on that list, I don't even think there's anything there really right.

Speaker 2

13:07

Not has been like that has been the case in California. In fact, in California, we have had litigation on the issue back in the day in a case the count went to the California Supreme Court Ross versus raging wire. The scenario much like the one you just sort of described, where you had a gentleman who was a qualified patient used for medicinal purposes, I believe he may have even been a disabled veteran. And he got a job working support for a tech company as far as I recall. And he tested positive and pre employment screening. And it was litigated to the California Supreme Court, California Supreme Court basically said prop 215 and subsequent laws and acting it did not address these questions. And us the law did not offer protection. I can appreciate why. And obviously people disagreed on this question of the law. Hence, it was litigated. And but unfortunately, that was the state law. That time we have made some attempts in California to get a bill through the legislature on multiple occasions. And I do have to do a shout out to California normal as well as Americans for safe access, who have worked on that bill in California for many years. It's gotten through and been vetoed. It's had trouble getting through the legislature. I'm sure we'll try again at some point and it will protect everybody in every circumstance. There can also be complications when say, obviously, we're not going to be able to get people protection for a federal employer and there can also be some issues with jobs where there's federal funding and where the lines are and safety sensitive can also be different. But just the most basic level protection the most straight ahead within California employment, nothing safety sensitive We're still trying to get through protection at that level, even for medical cannabis patients. That is just

Speaker 1

15:06

so frustrating. So what are some other legal blind spots at the intersection of employment discrimination and cannabis like basically, are there other things employers should think about? If they consume cannabis, legally speaking,

Speaker 2

15:24

that's going to depend on your job. And what you do. Where this typically comes up is going to be in the pre employment, drugs, drug testing, screen, safety sensitive positions, and also some people who are tested because of an accident or some other incident in the workplace. So those are really where they come up with the most. Obviously, even if somebody were to hypothetically disclose that they used adult use cannabis, or medicinal cannabis, even if they did not test positive, they could be likely fired for that as well if they disclosed it to their employer. So perhaps if you know that you're at a conservative employer or an employer for whom this may pose, interns, even if they personally don't have a problem with it, but perhaps somebody higher up in the company is worried about federal funding or something along those lines. it's wise to still be discreet. Yeah. And that would, of course, include your social media as well,

Speaker 1

16:28

I was just going to say, because a lot more people are doing a background check with social media now. And if you're promoting other cannabis brands, or retweeting something about cannabis, that could put you in a precarious situation for sure. But legally speaking,

Unknown Speaker

16:45

yeah.

Speaker 2

16:47

Yeah, it, there's probably a number of it, I'm sure more and more and more people are just taking steps to keep their social media a bit more private, in general, versus if you've made a decision to live very out loud on social media for various goals, I think that the choices are different. something to be aware of.

Speaker 1

17:06

Absolutely. I mean, I'm just now starting to, you know, be more open about everything all the way around, but it takes it takes steps. For some people, you know, there are a lot of reasons for you know, trying to keep things segmented on social media. So, before we end, is there any way that the cannabis can support you better in both a professional way? And a personal way? If you would like to include that? or if you just want to speak professionally?

Speaker 2

17:38

So I think, yeah, I want to spell me that the question I, I'm the I have the strain this time answering I've. So I've been a I've been doing what I call Canvas regulatory law now for nearly 12 years in California. And it's certainly changed a lot during that time, and gone in a lot of different directions. I don't think it's so much something to support. But I do hope that as we very happily move into more regulation, and as a result, at times more acceptance, I think we have to hold on to two things. One is fairly obvious, which is trying to keep regulation reasonable and not overly onerous. that's currently been an ongoing battle in California. And I don't see that changing anytime soon. The second one is more for people who say are not active in the industry, which is we still have a challenge in California, which is why we have so much more available at the state level for licensing. We still are struggling with local acceptance and local regulation, we still have local control in California. So if a jurisdiction does not want to have cannabis businesses, they can ban them. And that can be overcome with say, local voter initiative. But a lot of times, people will do themselves in big favor. And people will call me and say, Well, why aren't there? Why are the retail outlets in such and such city? Well, that city passed a ban last year. I didn't even know about that? Well, we have? Well, we have I believe over 400 cities in California. So if you want to have these businesses in your local government, whether as a business operator, an employee, an ancillary services provider, or simply a consumer, it's worth paying attention to local promotions regarding that and taking a glance at times at the local agendas. It does matter when you write in and say or call or go to the meeting and say that this isn't what you want. Because when people who do not want it are very vocal about that. And the I I like to help many elected leaders want to at least be aware of what their constituents want, but if you're simply part of the silent majority On the issue, they're not always aware that there is support for this.

Speaker 1

20:05

Absolutely. And so to that note, can people do a better job of supporting regulatory lawyers such as yourself in these measures like trying to draw attention to these things more. So

Speaker 2

20:20

I think that it's the same as with any other change. I think that people try to get information out there. But there's also no substitute for paying attention yourself. And so often, we think it's the roof, we're all perhaps more realizing more than ever, the importance on a wide variety of issues of keeping an eye on what your local government, your state government and higher are doing. And simply, when issues come up, it does matter that you call it doesn't matter that you send a letter, you may think that it doesn't, you may think that they get it, you know, because a little over 60% of Californians voted for proposition 64, surely they get the deal. Now they don't. They need to hear, and you need to stand up and be counted if this is what you want locally. Similarly, we also have to keep working to get our other laws to more match up with the changes we've made for business with prop 64. We did a lot to overhaul our criminal laws and criminal penalties. But as we've been discussing, we still don't have very basic low level low risk, low complication, employment protection. We are. So that would be another good issue for people to focus on. Because I it's really hard for me to think of something other than family and health, perhaps that's more fundamental in people's lives, which is the ability to seek employment. Right? Absolutely.

Speaker 1

21:55

I feel like that so much of the fight has been accessibility at and so some people, it's hard to think beyond that, because there's so many holes in just the accessibility aspect. But accessibility goes beyond being able to have the plant in your hand. Right, right. Yeah, so I appreciate you being on the show today and sharing your infinite wisdom with us. So how can people find you and what other areas I mean, I know you cover a lot of areas legally but what what are like some of the top areas that your the cannabis industry seeks you out for? And how can they find you?

Speaker 2

22:37

Sure, I'm fairly I'm fairly easy to find you can google my difficult to spell last name go to my website. wishes mcelfresh law comm that's m like Mary see like cat you like elephants, a like lamb f like Frank or like Ric II like elephant s like Sally. Ah, like Harry and yes, I do that all day. I know you do. To me, I was like, I know she does this every day. I can. You can find me there. We work on cannabis regulatory compliance. We work on local and state licensing, including latest applications. We also help people navigate the licensing process if they've had past criminal convictions of a resort. We have co authored or assisted in offering voter local voter initiatives to regulate cannabis businesses and do a fair amount of policy work. I also still do some garden drying to criminal defense cases, which these days does not overlap as much with cannabis as at one standard. And I'm happy about that. That's Yes,

Speaker 1

23:53

that is a good thing. Hopefully we'll see that with all drug currents. someday. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you so much. And if you're listening still, thank you for listening. Until next time, stay high and beautiful. Bye. Thanks for listening. You can find us on Instagram at Your Highness Podcast, or on Twitter at Highness Podcast, be sure to rate us on iTunes and subscribe.

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