41 | Drarry Deep Dive: The Draco Edition (Draco Malfoy/Harry Potter)

4:19AM May 22, 2023

Speakers:

Megs

Nathan

Megs & Nathan

Intro Music: I Ship It by Not-Literally

Keywords:

draco

harry

people

slytherin

characters

person

hufflepuff

literally

mcgonagall

fandom

hermione

friends

fanfiction

smut

narcissism

snape

dumbledore

year

point

write

Hey there listener, fancy seeing you here. Look, sometimes due to the things we discuss on the pod, it might contain potentially triggering content. But the good news is you can always review the episode description for a full list of the warnings applicable to this episode. Oh, and just so you know, this episode is rated R for really filthy. It includes adult themes and explicit content. So if you're an adult, buckle up, gird your loins and prepare to flood the basement because we are going down with these ships.

You're on the canon ground, I'm up in crackship space. Let's start a shipping war. Don't care if I get hate. Don't like my pairings, well, then you can hit the bricks. This is my OTP I'll go down with this ship. I don't care! I ship it! I don't care! I ship it, I ship it!

Welcome back to Care of Magical Shippers it's a Harry Potter ship culture podcast. I am Megs.

And I am Nathan.

And we are so excited. Like literally I'm like shaking in my chair. Because we are finally making our way around after kind of dancing all around to a bunch of different pairings having a lot of fun with some rare stuff, and some, you know, a little bit of some more popular things. But we knew after two years, it was time that we actually took on Drarry because honestly, that's kind of where both I mean, that's how I started with fanfiction and fandom was with Drarry as a ship. So where did you start with Wolfstar? Or where was your?

I think I started with Wol fstar.

Yeah.

Wolfstar was sort of my OG my introduction into the into the fandom and then it evolved from there. And we will we can talk about that the point of this episode.

Exacltly!

So yeah, so it wasn't it wasn't my initial experience of dipping my toe in the water. But there's just so much to say there's so much we're not going to talk about it in one episode. We may not even just talk about it in two epis odes.

Yeah we have no idea.

Doesn't it just fill you with confidence listener to hear those words? Like we have no idea we don't we don't really see this ending. It's just gonna be a Drarry podcast from now on. This is Care of Magical Drarry shippers.

Oh, it could easily be that way. I mean, it just I think there's a Dramione podcast. So I don't know if it's still going or what...

Oh wow.

...or if they were reading fanfiction. I just I know one exists. So that's cool. That's amazing for Dramione shippers. But we're gonna do our best with however much time we want to, you know, give to this. So I'm excited. So I guess to like, get things started, like exploring why we think that Drarry is as popular as it is like it's, I mean, gosh, it has I don't even know the last time I looked like 50,000 stories on AO3 it could be like it was just a crazy amount of works on AO3 which is awesome and like every day more and more and more keep getting posted and there's so many like fests I mean I feel like every other week there's a new fest like one of the more recent ones which I think is super cool is the Drarry Disability Fest so it's like focusing on characters like one of them having some sort of like mental or physical disability and having it not focus-

Wow

-having it not focus on like curing something like magical cures like actually like living with said disabilities and stuff like that. And I've just just like that it's so cool. I mean, there's a there's just a ton there's, there's fluffy stuff there's you know, trans Drarry, mpreg Drarry

Nice yes mpreg Drarry, for the win

Yeah, exactly. I don't know, vampire drarry.

What do you mean? I don't know vampire Drarry I mean, I'm pretty sure you've written some vampire Drarry haven't you?

I don't know, I've written so much at this point that I don't remember half the stuff but but yeah, obviously Drarry even after I mean hell, we're here doing this podcast. Obviously fandom is still alive and well, but Drarry is still very much the you know, like one of the number one ships of Harry Potter

Yes

and honestly when it comes down to like even comparing to like other fandoms and what people ship people love enemies to lovers like it's just they love the like the conflict and the build up of a relationship and starting with, you know, the animosity, the hate or even just the, you know, snarky back and forth and then how like, how you build up because that gives a lot of opportunity for especially long stories like to to actually give you chapter fic of like the progression and the slow burn of a relationship versus like, you know,

Yeah, absolutely.

if it was, not that you couldn't have like a long fic, like Ron and Harry, like, those exist too

Of course.

And but it's like, okay, then figuring out that, like, yeah, your friends. And then eventually, like, dudes, you gotta tell each other, you know each other, that you love each other. But it's like, it's different when you're literally coming from especially Draco who's, you know, seen as one of the villains of the series. And there's obviously like, from the beginning, the biggest thing that people use a lot, which is, I mean, there's just so many things between the Harry and Draco relationship that it's like plucking from canon that like, Okay, this is going to be something that's impactful for their future relationship or whatever. Because there's like, the obviously, the moment in the first book, when he introduces, Draco introduces himself and of course, extends his hand and wants to, like, become friends with the Harry Potter. And Harry is just like, Nah, that's okay. And so then immediately Draco goes, Well, fine. Like, you know, like, he's just, he's so mad about it. And then all of a sudden, he like, instantly, for whatever reason, singles him out, as someone that is worth hating and making their life miserable. And it's like a mutual, you know, hatred and rivalry and stuff like that. And, and it's just for both of them through the series, you just can't help stop and say, Wow, you think about each other way too much.

A lot. Yes. Yes. There's too much going on here. I mean, it's not, it's an obsession for both of them. And I think this is where a lot of this comes from, is it's not a healthy amount of time. You know, we all I think, at some point in our lives have experienced some level of animosity. However, the level of time that they dedicate to the pursuit of each other is lends itself so well to there being how should I put this extra curricular activities going on? At the same time, because there's just, especially by the time we get to book six, I mean, I know I'm jumping ahead here.

No, yeah.

You know, Harry spends a lot of time looking at Draco and being like, Draco looks really pasty Draco really drawn, and he looks ill

and is like, describing his hair, like describing the way his face looks like describing his expression. Like, it's like, okay, he could just look grumpy, but instead, you're like, you know, I mean, just like really goes into detail. This person is like, Who's stopping and like, I'm really going to inspect this person to that degree. It's just, it's just, it's funny when people will like screenshot or take pictures of different, you know, chunks of text and how like, you know, the, how Drarry is, you know, can be seen as like, Canon and the queer coding and all that stuff. And-

Yes

-it's just, it's it's so fun. Like, that's what makes fanfiction and fandom fun is even if it's like, technically, we don't have any founding for this actually being real. We have the tools to like, make it believable, which is awesome. So, I, yeah.

It's like Dumbledore even says, you know, of course, this is all happening inside your head, Harry, but why should that mean, it's not real.

Right.

You know, this is what fandom is. You know, it's happening in our heads, But of course, it's real, because it's happening for us.

Yeah.

And so yeah, I know, there's a, you know, a broader philosophical point to be made there about things being meta textual, but you know, we're not, we're not a cerebral podcast. This is just us having fun with these characters. You know, there is a point where you just have to embrace the fun of this. And I think a lot of the reason why this continues to be such a popular ship is because realistically, we see the books from Harry's point of view. So of course, anybody that Harry hates, we focus we spend a lot of time on

Yeah,

Harry, Harry hates Draco. And there's a lot of time spent on this. And Harry, hate Snape. There's a lot of time spent on that. You know, that's

Which is exactly why Drarry and Snarry were literally my two first ships. It just was I was like, Oh, so this is just a different version, a little bit more problematic version of the enemies to lovers.

A little bit. A little bit problematic

A little bit.

There's a massive age gap, and he's his teacher, but what's that matter?

Yeah, Yeah, who cares? Some people care. I don't care. I think it's great.

You're just like, technicalities. Let me just step right in. So so I have a question for you, though, as a fan of both of these ships, so when did you discover that you were a Slytherin?

Oh, me?

was that before or after you discovered that you loved shipping Snarry and Drarry?

Okay, so this is a funny story. So back in of course, it's like, you look back and you're like, Okay, you're, quote unquote 11 when you're sorted into whatever,

Sure, yes.

So in probably like middle school high school when they first started doing like the, you know, the the house tests and things like that, and especially when like, Pottermore launched, there's at first like, I was Hufflepuff.

Nice.

So for the longest time, I was a Hufflepuff. So I would say I'm a Slytherpuff. Like, I would say that I you know, I'm on that spectrum, but it was funny, because I was like, oh, yeah, I'm a Hufflepuff. That's just who I am. I had like, Hufflepuff you know, stuff. Like when I lived in Florida, and I would go to Harry, you know, the Wizarding World I would, you know, I had Hufflepuff stuff. Like, that's just what it was. And it wasn't until I joined the Fanatical Fics Patreon Discord server, when people were like, "Are you sure you're Hufflepuff?" And I was like, what does that even mean? I'm like, I don't know if I should take this as shade or what? They're just like, No, you're just, I don't know, there's certain things or whatever. So sure enough, I sat down and I was like, Okay, I'm gonna retake the, like the official quiz

Sure. Yeah.

And I swear, I did it three times, with three different emails, I made like three accounts, and all of them were Slytherin. And so everyone, I was like, Oh, my gosh, you guys called it like, it's just but I but I am different than how I was when I was younger,I was very sensitive,-

Of course.

-very, like worried about what other people like what other people thought and putting other people before myself, whereas like, a lot of life experience, and being kind of taken advantage of, and stuff like that really kind of, like-

Exactly.

-molded me and to be more independent and, and being okay with like putting myself first. And just like, you know, ambition and blah blah and all this stuff that I'm just like, Oh, of course, I'm a Slytherin like, it's just at first you're, Of course, like every, like a lot of people are like, Oh, I don't want to be a Slytherin because it has that bad, you know, reputation. But it's like, oh, like maybe all the dark wizards or most of the dark wizards were in Slytherin. But it doesn't mean that all Slytherins are bad. And it's like, there's certain traits that I definitely identify with. And so I think that I was technically a Hufflepuff when I first started, you know, because like, I listened to Fangasm and all those, you know, fanfics, and then Fanatical Fics. And then I started interacting those when I started interacting with fandom back in. Was it 2020 pandemic times?

Yeah.

And but I don't think it took long for me to be like, Oh, I should I like I'll take the test and see, because for whatever reason, it was like, that's why I made T shirts, actually. Because there were three Megans in the server. And all of us were Slytherins

Yes, I remember this!

and they were teasing me. They're like, Oh, you're a Megan, and you should be in Slytherin and I took the test. Sure enough, I have a Slytherin. And so I made the three of us shirts that literally says all Megans are Slytherins on it.

That's incredible. Yes, I do remember the All Megans are Slytherins T shirts, but I didn't realize that that was the context. So adding that was is perfect to me. I mean, I didn't realize that your Slytherin epiphany happened that recently.

Yeah.

I, I kind of sort of assumed that you'd known you were a Slytherin for a lot longer. I kind of have a similar story where whenever I was first sorted, I was a Gryffindor. And so you know, I was pretty happy with that at the time. Because, you know, Harry was in Gryffindor. So that couldn't be a bad thing

Yeah.

right? And then when I, so then they updated their algorithms a couple of years later, or whatever it was. And I resorted and I got sorted into Hufflepuff. And I was like, This is much more appropriate for me, I feel happier. I was definitely all about friends and food and just comfort and just, just just that level of social fluffiness. And being there for people that I really, and I still this is, that's still a strong part of who I am as a person. But then, so then I think I went to Uni. And a lot of people were like, No, you're a stereotypical Ravenclaw. And I kind of balked at that. Because I was like, well, obviously, no, that's the easy choice. That's the sort of reductionist path to go, Oh, you're smart you must be a Ravenclaw.

Just because I'm an academic, I'm a Ravenclaw

Yeah, yeah, exactly. But then I did the same thing you did. I took like three tests under three different emails, and they all they all came back Ravenclaws, so. Yes, I'm now very proud of being a Ravenclaw. But it took me a while to get there because you know, Lockhart was a Ravenclaw and there's there's a lot of in much the same way as some people experience sort of internalized Slyther-phobia, when they first realized that they're Slytherins, I was going through some serious, you know, sort of Ravenclaw denial, because I love to embrace my fluffy side so much. But this is so long story short, we're both in houses that we didn't think we would end up in. And that's interesting to me because, as a Drarry Stan, particularly, it's interesting to me that you gravitated towards these characters of Draco and and Snape. When before since long before you knew you were Slytherin.

Yeah.

So what do you think it was? What do you think it was about them that you were like? were you seeing parts of yourself in there? Or what was it?

Um, well, I just I just think that Well, yes, yes. I will say a little bit. Yes. Not that I think that I was like an asshole in school. And, you know, or like mean to kids or anything like that, but...

No, I don't think, Okay, let me just put a little disclaimer in here. The vast majority of Slytherins are lovely people. Just because you're in Slytherin does not make you a bad person. Yeah, there are just let's just say that, that extremely problematic people have certain, certain like trademarks. But I don't even want to say, because if you look at narcissism as a personality trait, like extreme narcissism, you could say the same of Gryffindors, or Ravenclaws, you know, it takes so many different forms, that, you know, sort of shoveling all of the quote unquote, evil people into one house, as we know, is really reductive. But you said it yourself, like, you evolve over time, and you change as a person. So having this idea that, you know, all the bad wizards belong in one house is just

Right.

If that were really true, that House wouldn't exist, because it would, it would just be too problematic.

Right, Yeah. So yeah, so pretty much what I was, like, thinking it's funny, you bring up narcissism, because actually, like, at some point, in my, like, growth of like, I mean, like, mental health has been a huge part of my life and like driver for lots of different things as far as like good stuff, and bad stuff and all that. And so like narcissism was something that I was diagnosed with. And it was just kind of one of those things that it's like, there's no treating narcissism. Like it's not like there's a medication for narcissism, there's not like, you pretty much have to sit in yourself and and consider what are my actions doing to other people, like, you have to think about what you're doing-

Right, yes.

-and how it affects other people versus very empathetic people and empaths are very, which I feel like I was one of those people very sensitive when I was younger. And that it was, I realized that I'm like, Oh, I was doing a lot of really selfish things, because I just wanted to do it. And that was, I didn't it didn't matter-

Sure.

-what happened to other people. But you know, through therapy and other stuff, like I didn't know I was bipolar. It wasn't until I did all of those, you know, testings and things like that. So I do have like, you know, medication and therapy helped to like get me where I'm at now and so it gave me those tools to like better myself so I did have a point in my life where I was definitely making poor choices and affecting people in negative way and I'm not proud of that time. So I think it's the the idea of the redemption of a person is so appealing, whereas like that's really popular when it comes to Draco to Snape and even some people do to like you know, it seems impossible but it's like people will do it to Voldemort or Tom Riddle or Tom Riddle characters or things like that or any of the Death Eaters, Lucius Malfoy, you know, it doesn't matter what the character is or even what the fandom is, if it's like okay, what is the reason behind this person's behaviors like a lot of stuff could be impacted based on like, a lot of people play off of Draco's dad, Draco having all these high expectations of himself and like Lucius being a really like, strict or even abusive father.

Yes

Be that emotionally, physically, whatever. So even though he obviously wants to make his father proud, it's because that it was like, drilled into him that he needs to care that much like he needs like and drilled into him that he is better than people that he is, like, you know, superior to, which really,

Very much

was like, you know, a learned behavior like how his you know, environment was so it's like with with fanfiction, and stories, like even rewriting canon as it is like, what are ways that Draco can relearn, you know, like, like new behaviors and realizing, wow, what my parents have done to me is really a disservice. And I've become a person I actually don't like, you know, like, it's It's realizing that moment that you're just like I don't like who I am and that's not okay and I need to figure out how to change that and for Draco it's usually very like stubborn in the light you know he might be trying to get get on the journey but he's not going to own up to it sort of thing. Especially when it's like when Mr. Hero Harry Potter is coming in and like Draco we could be friends or like or I'll help you and whatever and it's just like no, I could, you know, whatever I don't I don't need your pity or your sympathy or anything like that. And so that's a big thing too is like there's there's a lot of stories with Draco specifically, making him super vulnerable, someone who realizes his faults and wants to you know, and is redeemed in some way or especially like even though he you know, went into people will say that Draco went into the Death Eaters because he was forced, but really, we see him in what is it the sixth book, like bragging to his friends about like, Oh, I was picked for this super special assignment, you know, thing, like, I'm doing better things like even though he got scared later on, because things weren't working out. And of course, then his mortality was at risk of him being like shit if I don't do this, because at the beginning, you I mean, 16 year old Draco is probably like, hell yes, I'm going to kill Dumbledore. You know, like, it just is probably just what, what happened, but for him to, you know, people love like, the sixth book is a huge pivot point when it comes to writing fanfiction in school. Like, it's like, sixth year and then of course, like eighth year, we'll get to eighth year fics but so with sixth year with obviously, we talk about the obsession aspect, Harry constantly, like "Malfoy's up to something," you know, Watching his name on the marauders map, like map, like some, you know, like literally obsessed person. And yeah, and like, oh, where's he going, and he's doing something in the room or requirement and I need to stop him and blah, blah, blah, oh, it was definitely Draco that poisoned it was definitely him with the necklace, which was true. But of course, the whole time. They're just like Harry, Oh, my God, like you just you can't get this kid out of your head.

You know, when I whenever I think back to what I was doing, during my levels, it was nothing that, that nothing that dramatic, you know, it was just, I was trying to get through them as best as I could. And it was a very difficult challenging time that we're like, we read the books now. And we go Oh, hurry and Draco being so dramatic. It was a very dramatic time, I can remember doing my French A-level paper, my, my sort of listening exam where you'd have the little so so I'm aging myself here. So. So these were cassette decks that you have to like, put the tape in and press play. And then you'd have to transcribe chunks of text, you'd hear them and you'd have to transcribe it as it was happening. And I just remember there was a moment like whoever was speaking was going so quickly, there was a moment in my exam where things were going so fast that I pause the tape. And all you could hear like I wasn't making a noise was the like the silent plopping of tears onto my exam paper. And you could see, you could see that the like, where it was warping slightly, like it was going all blotchy. And I was like, oh, no, this is so terrible. I mean, that was what I was going through and the equivalent of my sixth year. And so I just think, you know, for, you know, Draco, Draco to be considering murder, and for Harry to be obsessed with whatever he might be plotting. It's, it's overblown. And it's overdramatic, yes, but it's tapping into something that is very real, which is that a lot of people at that time, feel the pressure of, okay, I need to do well, otherwise, I'm not going to Uni, or I need to do well, or I'm not going to advance to the next stage of what it is to be a responsible adult.

Yeah

And so, so it is a very real pressure. And I think out of the sort of pressure cooker of that environment, it is very possible to throw these characters together and have them interact in a way that we hadn't seen previously, you know, up until Book five, it was all very like, "my father."

Quidditch stuff and like, Oh, I like yeah, when he was made up when Draco was made a prefect and you know, the beginning of that, that was definitely a big thing, because of course, he's like, Oh, Potter didn't become, Weasley did like oh, so obviously you're less and then we start getting, you know, Harry having his issues of literally working through some narcissism, of being like why Ron and not me because even Dumbledore is like, you want to know why it didn't pick you and he's like, I thought you had enough to do and here's like, oh, yeah, that's that's, that's valid that's valid. So it's like, Oh, I was busy. But otherwise I definitely would have been

Oh my god. Yes. Also, in that moment, when Dumbledore says, you know, I thought you'd have enough on your plate, or whatever it was, Dumbledore is crying. And Harry is so narcissistic, that he cannot deal with other people's emotions. He's just like, I don't know where to put my face, I could see that Dumbledore his eyes were wet, and it was making me really uncomfortable. Just just like, Oh, Harry, please, please develop some basic empathy, please for other people. Oh, yes. But in some ways, I can see why that why people feel that this, these qualities in these characters would lend themselves well, to a more dynamic relationship, because they both have so much development to do. I mean, it's only because Harry has a pretty good support network around him that as a wizard, that he doesn't have access to as a Muggle that he's able to make the good choices that he's able to feel supported into, you know, doing the right thing being in the right place at the right time being the the the what a Snape call him that you've been, you've been raising him like a lamb for slaughter.

Yeah.

Like being that that sacrificial sort of pawn in double doors game of chess. And it's only because he has that extensive network around him. I mean, if we look at Draco, yes, he's an incredibly narcissistic self, I was going to say self motivated, maybe even self delusional would be the right word, it he has a very overinflated sense of ego, anyway. And he's an incredibly problematic person. We know he makes snap value judgments about Hermione as an example. He, he has all of that, that he's battling against. However, he is very much a product of the environment that he finds himself in, not that this is an excuse for his behavior, right, exactly what it does set up why Yeah, he has such a journey to make if he wants to make that right. And in some fun fictions that I've read that were sort of Drarry centric, he he does become, and I think this feeds into your eighth year idea, he does become that more sort of self-reflective character that needs to do that growing, before he can feel comfortable with himself. And I think we can all relate to that to a degree. I mean, I never had to wrestle with any murderous feelings. In my A-level classes, but, but you know, they were a hard time, I can remember being at school and making some really crap choices that I regret now. And the things that I did that I'm not proud of, you know, I think we all look back at that time and go, Oh, my goodness, you know, it was really it was a lot of this was just the product of a hormonal cocktail of what the is going on here. You know? So, you know, we've all done things that we're not proud of. The question is, do you believe that Draco was somebody who would grow up to question that, or do you think that he would just double down on his behaviors and continue on as he had been doing? Did the war change him? Or did, did he want to continue on that sort of idea of the Malfoy lineage?

I think a big part that like I pull from is the fact that near the end, obviously the Malfoys make a decision that Draco was more important, you know, like it's like the whole time Narcissa's worried about you know worried about Draco and even just like in the movies, how they portray how like, you know, frazzled Lucius is and how worried they are about Draco and them just being like we're leaving, it doesn't matter, we're together sort of thing. I don't care what happens to anybody else. And that could be a collective Malfoy growth experience of them being like, Okay, what I thought mattered before and us being put into like a mortality situation of like, all of our lives at risk, and it's also very it's still into the selfish realm of like, Oh, me and my family, we see a lot of that too. Like, oh, you're wrong because this attacks me and my family's values and it's like me and my family are more important than the greater population of other people because you know, but that does you know, that does offer them some opportunity to grow as well as like sometimes with Draco like if Lucius is obviously you know, post war like how accountable are like the free you know, theaters like you would assume like obviously Lucius would go to Azka- Azkaban and possibly Draco like that's another thing that a lot of people play with of like Oh does Draco, Draco go away and then the horrors of him reliving you know

Right

the choices he made in Azkaban like if the Dementors were still there and you know that sort of thing or does he get off because you know usually like Harry has something to say like oh he was you know, he was just a kid or in the end like he didn't you know decide to like kill Dumbledore or whatever like for whatever reason

Yeah, he was lowering his wand.

like a lot of times they can be like so then when it comes to like eighth year like if Draco were to go back and obviously finish school like same with Harry and everybody else a lot of that is that then Draco gets like let off like either like probation or just doesn't go to Azkaban for whatever reason he's excused from from the Death Eater-ness and is able to go to school. So um, but it could still be you know, probation and things like that, like has to have someone check in on him. He has to keep his grades a certain you know about a thing you can't get into trouble that sort of stuff knowing McGonagall being you know, Headmistress like what she's going to put into place over something Dumbledore would you know, I could see that being a thing but that could be him being like, what was it I think with oh, we read it, my the he Heal Me. The super smut fest that we read.

If haven't heard that by the way.

The Draco tops Harry

If you haven't heard that, and you want to have a laugh, or you want to laugh with us, because we laugh a lot in that recording. Because it's great. Go on to AO3 and look for our Heal Me. And it's a what is it? It's a podfic that we did together and we decided-

Yeah, live, a live read like unedited like nonsense, but it was for Draco Tops Harry Fest so of course it was like okay, like you didn't have to smut like just being like okay the dynamic behind it was like you know, that was just you had the intention behind their dynamic but yeah, I took things way beyond I what I realized like you write shit like you write shit and it's just like oh yeah, like that was you know hot or whatever blah blah blah and then you read shit same thing, then you read it aloud and you're just like oh my god, my entire body is tense. My cheeks are on fire. I cannot believe these were words that came like my fingers typed these words and this is you know, and it's like I know it's like good but still at the same time like it's just the fact that it wasn't just like the you know, like me reading it or just you reading it like same thing when you and Phe did like for my birthday read one of you know one of my stories for me and like your live reactions to each other it's like when you're reading smut together like

There's something because this can I just say there's a special bond that forms whenever you read smut together as friends that that there is no substitute for. I think this is why we're so close as friends is that we, we are prepared to go to places and levels that other friends just won't go was fantastic. Those I think both of those recordings are available on AO3 or it might just be he'll me did was the other one ever uploaded. Yes.

I don't think you guys ever uploaded The Boy Who Lived?

The Boy Who Loved.

The Boy Who Loved. I totally know my name my own story.

Well, we can we can look at uploading that maybe we... The thing is, the thing is the both of these recordings are incredibly explicit. So if you do want to go and enjoy those, they are well they're available with caveats. Don't listen to them if you're not into smut, because there's a lot of it in there. And it's very well written and some lines still when I think of them make me want to burst out laughing because there's so good. So good. Slight tangent, but yeah, go and enjoy. At least go and enjoy. Heal Me if you haven't already. And we're looking at uploading The Boy Who Loved as well. Possibly. Yeah, if you're alright with that.

No, I'm fine with that's up to you and Phe. I'm sure that's fine.

Okay, yeah, I'll ask Phe. We'll see. We'll see what happens. Yeah. Anyway, back Drarry.

Yeah. So anyway, so in regards to Heal Me, like the part of the reason like what I wrote as far as, like Draco's character point of view was that yeah, Harry spoke I'm finally and I'm pretty sure this is what I wrote. I mean, I read a shit ton of Drarry, So it's like everything blends together. But I'm pretty sure that I wrote it being that like Harry spoke up for, you know, Draco and he was able to get off so then he went back to school.

Yeah, I think you did. I think I remember this

and then that was like where McGonagall was trying to like actually get people to like, you know, like inter house unity more so like the eighth years is like, Okay, we only have so many people that came back and we're not going to separate you into houses. So then people were like given roommates. So of course, Harry and Draco are roommates because you know, McGonagall is just like you, This is you know, you need to grow from this if like if we reached a point of trying to make for a better future like you and Mr. Malfoy, Malfoy need to get your shit together.

But this is clearly like, Yes, I see this from a logical point of view. But this is also you clearly just leaving so hard into the "there was only one bed" trope.

Exactly, I mean, there were two beds, there are two twin beds, they could have been close, you know, smushed together.

Just smushed together. Yeah.

But it was just one room, two boys, you know, stuff happens. But, so yeah,

Yeah, it does.

so the whole time was and then Draco was focusing on learning and studying healing because he wanted to make a positive impact on you know, society versus all the harm he had done before. So that was him trying to self reflect and self grow, you know, to be different. Because even though he still resents Harry for, like speaking up for him, and he just he doesn't, he's like, we're never gonna be friends. Like, I just that's not a goal for me. I don't care this is- I'm just moving forward and doing my thing to try and, you know, so then of course, Harry's, like trying really hard to be friends and all that and so, but, but yeah, so it eighth year is very popular. Because obviously most of the people don't, you know, go seventh year, or because seventh year was so terrible for the people that did go they redo seventh fear because obviously what they learned from all these Death Eater professors was very questionable versus like, were they actually prepared for their NEWTs? I don't know. I don't I'm not quite you.

Know, I can't see Professor Tofty going. "Excellent use of the Cruciatus Curse, there Neville." [Laughs] We've lost Megs.

Yeah, so it's nice. And then also as another side thing, people love eighth year because usually they're over 18. So as far as comfort factor of If you're gonna write smut, especially for students there, you know, it's adjacent to like, university, you know, type of thing of like, okay, everyone is of age, even though obviously, that doesn't stop anybody from especially seventh, you know, seventh year like, 17 we see as you know, like, of age for the wizarding world.

Coming of age for wizards.

Most people don't even bat an eye at 17 and whatever, but we all know what peeps get up to it, whatever age is, like we know it's not out of you know, but so that's that's a very popular thing for anything school related like school dynamics of like being students and like crushes and, and rivals and things like that. And, and like whether like oh, do Draco and Harry go back to the Quidditch teams or like Harry decides to but then Draco realizes like, it doesn't matter that much. Or he's still because of what happened with the fellow Slytherins like he's still looked down on even by his housemates because he was one of the few that like that we know of that joined, you know, joined the Death Eaters and things like that versus you know, so I just then of course, there's his trauma of losing one of his you know, best friends regardless of like,

exactly

the hierarchy of whatever of actually losing someone close to you. I mean, everyone lost somebody so the trauma aspect that everyone has post war is huge and that it that also is reflected in some of our quote unquote villain, you know, characters and things like that. So it gives that opportunity to be like, oh, this person is human too. They're not just like this asshole that I you know, that doesn't deserve good things. Like everyone has the opportunity to grow and become better and like you said, it doesn't excuse what they did before. But if they want to learn and grow, give them that opportunity. Like that's, you know, that's where it's like canceling can be so like toxic and dangerous for someone when it's like we just need to have conversations like there's plenty of people who just are just ignorant like just like they literally don't know better but once we are educated and informed, then we can grow from that, but just by shutting someone down and saying, Oh, this is the way you think, like, you're done like, no, no, no, no, forgiveness sort of thing. It's like, it's really sad that that's kind of the thought process for a lot of people. Because we, we need those people to learn, like, we need these people to, like, have the conversations and grow.

Yeah, big time.

That's the reason for not just being like, okay, you're done, like, you're done, you're done, you know, like, you don't matter, you're just you're letting that person sit in what they you know, whatever

And it's difficult to do that, especially with a child that still has, so you know, they're literally still developing, you know, even as a young adult, you're still developing your you're not sat in your thought processes. And there's, there's no age limit on education. We're all still learning all the time. And not one of us, no matter what side of this debate you're on, has all of the answers. So the only thing you can do is try and accommodate as many perspectives as possible, to glean from that a sort of a multifaceted approach to things and a way forward through these very complex issues that doesn't feel reductive or dismissive of people, I get very worried when we're quick to write people off, who haven't had the opportunity to understand why the choices they're making are not conducive to anybody's happiness. You know, at the end of the day, we recognize even as fanfiction writers, that, whether it's a planet you're sharing, or a space that you're creating your characters or your or people have to share that space. And there has to be a certain element of yes, you know, we're taught in English class or wherever that drama is the center of all good writing. Yes, that's true. But the but the reason that drama and conflict is the center of good writing is usually because eventually we get to a point where through empathizing with the characters, we see it from their perspective, that like, the empathy is the key thing there. like, often there's a miscommunication that happens, or even in the case of Draco and Harry, where they met really early on, and then just because of that, initial altercation, things went down a very specific route, you know, that could have been very different. And I think we get we kind of get a flash of this between Scorpius and Albus, then when they go to Hogwarts, and it might be worth examining how that kind of parallels the Drarry isms to some degree, if we want to talk about next gen. Because that might-

we will we have to Yeah, like this Scorbus, this will have to happen, obviously, because it's like Drarry Jr. But different because obviously, the characters are slightly different. And obviously, either going on with Cursed Child or just they're a name that we want to play with, like, Is it super fun to so it's always like, you know, especially when it's like, oh, obviously, your dads had a thing for each other, and maybe it never happened. But, you know, obviously, there's a reason why you're drawn to one another and things like that. But But yeah.

Do you think, Pensieve are capable of holding, not just memories, but things that characters fantasize about? Because I'm wondering if Harry ever-

Or like dreams, you know, like dreams, I think because-

Yeah.

-it's something that your brain, like, registered, like, especially like, you know, even if you're dreaming, like you're seeing things, I feel like you could probably tap into your dreams, or like, even like a memory of sitting in class literally daydreaming about whatever and yeah, that would be would be really, I'm trying to think I feel like I've read a fanfiction like that, where it was like someone like either Draco or Harry was like fantasizing about the other person and was putting said memories of the fantasies like in a Pensieve and then returning to them over and over again, essentially, when they wanted to get themselves off and then the other person found out about it or discovered it and was like, Oh, you're into this and turns out I'm exactly like your fantasies because that's how it works out!

Yes! That's how real life works, folks.

I'm totally a dom like, yeah, Harry's absolutely a dom and has this you know, BDSM kit in his closet. Like just what He's never done it with anyone else. Only with Draco. He's been waiting for this opportunity of like, oh, everyone else, it's like, whatever, but whatever.

He's been waiting to harness the full potential. Mm hmm. Yes. Well, I just remember you mentioned Fanatical Fics earlier. They definitely did an episode early on, where it was a Drarry episode. And I think it was Drarry anyway, Draco was picking Harry up outside of the Gryffindor tower window, he had this broomstick, and they flew off Aladdin. But it was it was a special broomstick in that it sat two people. And it there was it this was a vibrating broomstick, so things...

I was going to say, it's vibrating.

Yeah, yeah, it was a it was a an interesting moment. And the podcast, a great episode. And it was one of the things that sold me on Drarry as a concept, because I hadn't seen the, the sort of Aladdin similarities there. Until, until they were sort of laid bare in front of me and I was like, oh, yeah, actually this works and maybe I just really want to see it working.

Oh my gosh, oh, my cheeks hurt now of course I just like the joke comes back of us like why do we always have these Disney references but it's because they have all these tropes that then they use but also like other stories used and whatever and now I definitely want someone to make like an animatic music video or like, you know, like wizard rock jam of like, literally Draco in Harry singing A Whole New World but like, you know, that like their version sort of funny, or like Harry is literally showing Draco like the world of like, beyond the Death Eaters and like you know, things like that. Like I could totally see Harry singing that to him and then I just see like Draco all like, oooh! mouth open surprise sparkling silver eyes in the moonlight. And I mean, it's just oh my gosh, I just, ugh!

But aslo Harry just getting really into it and going, "Don't you dare close your eyes."

I just, oh my God, I love that visual. I just Oh my gosh, which that also, Hey, another fest that's going on that people are making works for what is it right now? Are? What is it? LC Yeah. LCDrarry, which is Lights Camera Drarry. Whereas people put in prompts based on either books, movies, TV shows, whatever. And essentially, it's like, it could be a crossover. Or it could be inspired by this medium or, you know, it's literally Yeah, like it just, it's, that's the perfect opportunity for all those like, Oops, I hit my mic. All the opportunities for those like, we're getting very excited for AUs and the and I'm like, Oh my gosh, there needs to be an Aladdin, you know, Drarry. I just now of course I'm picturing Draco in Jasmine's outfit, and he's got his long blonde hair. And he's just so extra. He's just-

See, but you see, I put in this context, I almost picture Harry as the Jasmine, because I see, I see Draco, in this instance, as as being his sort of ticket into the wizarding world, supposing that he doesn't have Ron or Hermione in this universe. And Draco is just showing him round, literally, and being like, your eyes are so open to this wonderful realm of fantastical new possibilities. And it's all going to come through me and my vibrating broomstick.

Oh, man, yes. Okay, so what was like, oh, so playing off of the eighth year and onward, kind of, like I was saying, people like writing them 18 Plus, blah, blah, blah. So then, post war, obviously, in general is super popular. Be that like future, you know, 5, 10, whatever years in the future, a really popular trope is like, you know, dads and love, like they had their families like Harry and Ginny had their kids. Draco and Astoria I had Scorpius like they had their lives and then for whatever reason, like things didn't work out between Harry and Ginny or you know, for Draco, and things changed and then all of a sudden, they were, you know, single obviously, and then people are trying to get them to, like, acknowledge that they always had something for each other, like, you know, over time and so I do always love that like Harry from an earlier like early on stage or even just like you, you know, he gets with Ginny that people could, you know, argue like, oh, it's like, you know, high school sweetheart and then you just continue with that, whether it's right or wrong for you, because in the moment, you're like, "This is real," you, like, that's, that's your feelings are valid in the time, but it can also it can go forever or for a lot of people it doesn't. So once we talked about people changing over time, and it's like, we don't know who it's whether you grow together or you grow apart, so that's kind of, you know, the aspect of them usually growing apart because, you know, be that a lot of times it comes down to Harry and not dealing properly with all his trauma, you know, like just going through the war, losing all like anyone that he had any sort of connection to, you know, as far as like, like Dumbledore, Remus and Sirius and, and his parents obviously well before like he was left with, he still has a family in like Hermione and Ron and the other Weasleys and and Hagrid's and other person that obviously is really you know, important in his life but it's still like losing people like that that you expected to always be there is really you know, is obviously really hard and wizard therapy doesn't exist you know? Even though I love when people write in Mind Healers, you know, like literally like, especially Hermione, I love when Hermione's like Har-ry, seriously, like you need therapy, Ron finally went and he's doing great and like, you know, when I if I've been through it or whatever, like there's nothing wrong, it comes down to the same thing. In real life or in you know, in the wizarding world, stigma of like, especially for men feeling like you have to be strong enough to carry your burdens on your own and not you know, offload those on to other people because that would show you know, weakness but it's like, you're really doing yourself a disservice and your mental health like you're you're making your life harder. And and, like you're miserable. You know, like, it's just you carrying those things on your own is never, like people want to help you people want to be there for you. It's just you think that it's, it would be cruel to offload your pain onto someone else. But really, it's like it you know, it just lightens your load and then relying on people who know how to help you deal with those feelings, you know, like it just so that, yeah, so I've also read like Draco was a Mind Healer, like Harry finally went to go see a doctor and then ended up being Draco for whatever reasons, because he's obviously like, he's obviously like, an expert when it comes to healthy-

Because Draco has no issues. Draco is a centered, together human being who has all his ducks in a row.

Yeah, exactly. So it's just and that's another thing too, it's, it's fun. We're all given the opportunity to literally make them as in character or out of character as we want, you know, like, we talked about fanfic Draco and how like, extra he is and his leather pants and is what, um, you know, like, it's, but then there's also still like, self-hatred. Yeah, there's still the Draco that's very, very dark and still very bigoted. And, you know, you see a lot of those things, and his growth is very different. And in various stories, as well as like, maybe he doesn't grow enough, but it's enough where Harry can live with that, you know, or like, they can coexist in a way that's okay, understanding that Draco either thinks and feels the way he feels about certain things. Like maybe he will never be comfortable around Hermione. You know, it's just, it's just one of those things that I'll tolerate her because she's your friend. But you know, like, it's just like, that's, that's, that's toxic for a relationship, but it's realistic in you know, a fanfiction sense of like, yeah, none of these stories are meant, like, I mean, it's like, it's nice for especially the fluffy stuff like you would love this to be real life. But a lot of the fun stories that are really complex and dramatic, like you said, with drama, like nothing's gonna be perfect. And of course, even though, like in real life, if Harry was my friend, I'd be like, "You do not need to be in a relationship with someone who is prejudice against your best friend." You know, like that was you know, like, I had a friend who was dating someone who was racist and obviously like had a you know, a a person of color as a friend and thinks like that like it just, Ugh, like it's just it's you wouldn't in real life want to support anything like that.

No.

But this is fiction and you're just like, you know, I mean, so I just I love the opportunity for Draco to be still this very like, It's kind of why I like Snape so much too, like it like it's, it's hard to make Snape fluffy like you can still give him his redemption, but he's still going to be kind of like... I want to say crunchy, but I know that's not the right word!

[losing his shit laughing]

Like, he's still gonna, like be prickly I guess like he's not going to become all of a sudden like, like Mr. Nice Guy or anything like that, but you can understand his character whereas with Draco, we can kind of get all aspects of like him all of a sudden becoming a very like positive person in the wizarding community or like him, you know, being the driving force for like wizarding you know, queer, like exposure and stuff like that.

Right, yes, exactly.

There's just there's a lot of opportunity with these characters. But at the end of the day, it comes down to we love enemies to lovers. We love it so much!

And for that to work, you have to have been invested in them in the idea of them being enemies. And we see that, you know, we've seen that right, the way through, there's been all this development over seven years, or six or seven years, however, you quantify that. So that there is this huge build up to that relationship to then pay it off with something else to take it in another direction and go, actually, all of this animosity that was building up between these characters can be used in a different way. Because guess what, people grow up. And people learn to deal with their feelings in a way that kids don't, like, when you're, when you're a child, you're inherently more selfish, you're inherently more self centered, because sure it like even the most empathetic of us are, you know, we're at that age, mostly only focused on ourselves and what we want to do, and like after you've been through a traumatic war, both of these characters are going to want to be doing some amount of self-examining, and if they are, then that's worrisome. So, you know, maybe McGonagall's right, to throw them together in a dormitory and see what happens. I mean, I think if she was, we talked about Dumbledore being twinkly-eyed-

Sex. Sex happens. That's what happens.

Yes. We talk about Dumbledore being twinkly-eyed, right, but I think McGonigal even more, so it's just like, I knew exactly what these boys need.

"You guys are gonna be the best pals after this year" like, no, they're just gonna be fucking each other's brains out.

And on that note, that's that sounds like a good place to leave this-

Yes.

today.

So I feel like we did a lot of Draco diving in this episode. So I think for next episode, let we'll let's focus on like Harry's side of things. Because I mean, we talked about him a little bit but I think we are definitely like really focused on like the Slytherin, why, you know, who do we think Draco would become and them and whatever. So I think it'd be fun for us to look into the Harry aspect of things and how he should, you know, fit into this dynamic and things like that.

How does a hero go to bed with a villain?

Very easily, obviously.

With a great deal of happiness.

Yes, yes. Happily it's literally like, I, now I'm picturing the Little Mermaid when when Ariel flops down on the world's like squishiest mattress. You know, when she's like, "Oh, I'm so happy!" brushing her hair and flops down and like this. Like it's practically a waterbed at this point. Like, like TempurPedic meets waterbed, I don't know.

Ironic.

So, but, but yeah, so obviously, lots to be said about Drarry. So we'll stop here for this week. So we'll have more for you, which is really exciting, because obviously we're going to continue to have stuff to say so we'll see. After recording the next episode, where we're at, do we need to do more!

We're gonna need to do more.

Yeah

I mean, we could have an entire podcast on Drarry-

Yeah, we did say that.

-and I think we, there would still be deep dives to do so. Yeah. Tune in next time for Harry Deep Dive...

Harry. Harry, Drarry.

Harrerery. It's gonna be good. Come back to that. We will see you next time. Okay, love y'all.

Bye!

Awesome

I ship it!