192 - COMPLETE

Vinny Welsby1h 14min

Vinny Welsby

00:00

You're listening to the face value podcast episode 192, ozempic slash. We go v3 years on. Let's do it.

Vinny Welsby

00:20

Perfect. Hello. Welcome to this episode. So pleased that you're here. You're right, all right, you're right, all right, good. Glad you're here, glad you're alive, glad you're into the fat stuff. I'm excited to talk today about ozemon. I did an episode in Feb, 2003 2023 Jesus Christ, not 20 years ago. 2023 I did a two part on azem Pick slash wegovy. The correct word, brand name of the weight loss drug is wegovy, but everyone's just run with those ZEM picks. So it's hard to know what to refer I mean, you know, and then we could use the actual, you know, drug active ingredient too, but I think azem Pick is what everyone knows. So even though it's incorrect, otherwise, some people are taking a Zen pick off label for weight loss. Let's just call, let's just to say a Zen pick. And no, we're referring to wegovy or azem pick for weight loss. Anyway, I did a two part episode. It was really popular, and it's been two years, which is what almost two years, year and a half. And what's happened in that time, what is going on? So I'll link the the other two episodes in the show notes. We really go into what is a Zen pick. We go V what is happening. Deep Dive into everything. But as a reminder, if you don't want to listen to two plus hours of content to get up to date on and what we're talking about today, I made an Instagram post kind of summarizing those two episodes. And so I'm going to read the Instagram post to you again. It'll be linked in the show notes, and you can share it on social if you want, or whatever. But the the post I've made, I've shared it a couple of times since. So this is the most recent share that I'm going to link to is we go via Zen pick the miracle weight loss drug. It's made out to be, what does the science actually show? What's your what's your answer, what's your answer, what's your guess? If you listen to the previous episodes, you'll know the answer. What's your guess? No, no. Okay. So the post reads, we go v ezepic. Semaglutide is a new injectable weight loss jog. This is how the media has been reporting on it. And so in the Instagram post, we have all of the headlines, and it says, a new miracle weight loss drug, the end of O word, a game changer, basically that people are just, you know, wanking over themselves with excitement that fat people are going to disappear Next slide. So is wegovy slash ozempic, a miracle, game changing weight loss drug. Let's look at novo nordisks, the manufacturer's own data. How much weight do people lose on average? Okay, so what's your guess? Over 68 weeks, how much a month does someone lose? According to novonovo Nordisk, two pounds a month. Oh, my Lord, totals. Is 33 pounds. Oh, by the way, I should put a trigger warning that we're going to be talking about weight. I'll avoid tech people sharing their weights and things like that, but there's side effects and just weight loss bullshit in here, I'll be mentioning things like this, like how much people studies show that people lose, and what's going on. But I'm not going to be sharing people's weights, by the way. Okay, so two pounds a month, which is, I mean, losing any type of weight is really, really difficult for most people, and so two pounds a month might be a big amount for some people, but, you know, is that a miracle or a game changer? Oh, I don't think so. Also, participants needed to exercise 30 minutes a day and six days a week, as well as taking the injection. And at 60 weeks, the participants weights plateaued, and that was people still taking the medication. And in the in a follow up study, a year later, two thirds of the weight was regained fun. And so then there was problems with the study a child was planned, funded for by drug manufacturer Novo Nordisk. Obviously, every single all very involved. Multiple conflicts of interest. I financial benefiting, beneficial relationships with Novo Novo employees conducted and conducted the statistical analysis and provided editorial writing assistance. There's missing information on trial, design, recruitment and protocol. Results are not replicable because of that fact, many people were excluded from the study, and it was only 68 weeks. Um, I'm paraphrasing some of this, but doesn't week over improve your health. Novo reported that there were many health benefits. This is what they actually found. The HBA 1c a diabetes measured the change was, was from 5.7 at the start of the study to 5.6 a 0.1% difference. This is not a significant change. Again, remember, this is for non diabetics, cholesterol, triglycerides and inflammation markers. Went from normal range to normal range, and the Canadian agency for drugs and technologies and health refused to approve it for drug public drug plans. They said there is no evidence to show that this weight loss translates to improvements in weight related comorbidities. It also has a black box warning. 95% of participants had side effects. 10% had serious side effects. And if you Isn't that one of the slides says, Is it true that once you stop taking we go V you're put on weight. Not only is that true, but you can still be taking the drug and put on weight anyway. So there's more. There's more stuff in that post, if you want to go really, but that's the the long and short of it. The long and short of it is it doesn't necessarily offer what people think of as life changing weight loss. That weight loss stops at about a year, which is, you know, what happens with diet, right? And then if you stop taking it, all the weight comes back. And even if you keep taking it, the weight loss is plateauing and on the increase. So that's where we were two years ago, ish, and from sharing that information, some people shared their experiences. So I'm going to read three of them, just so you can get an idea of what people were saying. Someone said it took I took it for a year, and towards the end, at higher doses, it was horrific. It shut down my bowels, and I was nauseated and sick from it. The ear on it was not worth the 30 pounds I lost. I'm sorry. I just read out the weight loss there. My doctor wanted me to lose weight. I did not ask for it. Now I see the ridiculousness of it. Why do we make ourselves miserable to lose weight, I'm working on being satisfied, satisfied with my body. Instead. Next person says, I took this a couple of years back for weight loss. It worked because it suppressed my appetite. Ate like a bird, but I ate. They say something, ignore that. That was the quote, miracle. It sucked to inject myself every week, and the dose had to keep rising, because after a couple of weeks, my body would get used to that dose and slow down. After four months of taking it, I asked my doctor, when do I stop? And he said, you don't. I told him I'd like to stop. And he said, the weight will come back. It did waste of money and time and energy. I felt worse mentally than I did before I started. My health was perfectly fine. My doctor doesn't like me being fat and always comments it's something I'm working on with him, aka shutting down that shit. Shutting that shit down. My mother took it for six months and it did nothing for her, not one damn pound. She felt horrible mentally like something was wrong with her, and it took her money. Someone else said I have tried semaglutide from Novo Nordisk, but I had to stop taking it because I felt nauseous all the time, and it only had a minimal effect on my weight. Besides this, it was extremely expensive. Yeah. So in 2013 I asked people on my Instagram Stories, are you taking wegovy slashes, Olympic and 91% of people said no, 2% said yes, 2% said no, but a different drug for weight loss, and 5% said yes for diabetes. So 4% were taking a weight loss drug and 91% were not now I asked that question again. It's October the ninth. I asked the question 2024 I asked that question again to my followers. And the question was, are you taking ask the same question? So in 2023 beginning of 2023 91% said no. And october 2024, 87% said no. So 4% increase, 8% said yes for weight loss. So in 2023 2% said yes, 5% said yes for diabetes. In 20. 23 5% said yes for diabetes. So the diabetes people haven't changed, and then No, but I'm taking a different weight loss drug is 1% interesting, so 10% are taking weight loss drugs in 2024

Vinny Welsby

10:19

and in 2023 it was 4% this is just my followers. So this is very unscientific, and it's interesting to see that people are taking less of different weight loss drugs, probably because ozempic Novo Nordisk have spent millions and millions of dollars on marketing. Ozempic wegovy has benefited from that, and also other I asked people, have you heard of a zimpic wegovy semaglutide before and in 2023 42% said yes, from an anti fat resource source. In 2024 53% said yes from an anti fat source. So more people are hearing about ozempic from anti fat people. Now let's have a look at yes from a pro fat source was 25% in 2023 from a pro fat source is 12% Wow. That's a big difference, probably because there's a lot of marketing. And also, you know, the pro fat people who were talking about a Zen pick, they're not relentless in in the same way that this, you know, multi million billion dollar company is in their marketing efforts. So, you know, it's just a few of us being like, hey. And you know, with me. Last time I did covered it was, you know, almost two years ago, because I'm just one person, right? 33% said, Yes, I don't know the source. In 2024 in 2023 15% said, don't know the source. And in 2023 18% said, I've not heard of it. Guess how many people haven't heard of it? Now, 1% of people, that's Wow. It's really become part of our consciousness. And just that, that short time frame before I, when I was making this, before I was ex, you know, really having to explain everything about what ozempic is. And now I feel like a lot of people are like, yeah, yeah, we know. There you go. The data shows it. So what's been going on since then? What is the crack? What's been happening? Well, one thing that I saw was that there's a really smart person that I am following on the Instagrams. He does like political content and like, debunks things. And then he started, and he's, like, a growing channel. So he doesn't, he doesn't have a lot of, I don't think he's got sponsors and shit like that. So, I mean, I don't have sponsors. But he obviously got offered a sponsorship deal to get his followers asking, to get his followers to sign a petition in support of heart health. On the surface, you would say, Well, that sounds great. Hello. What came out was so semi semaglutide is, is the drug? Right? Semaglutide study came out saying there is a 20% reduction in major adverse cardiovascular events from taking semaglutide. If we go back to list, thinking about my episode with Tigris Osborne, the from Nafa and we were talking about how Novo Nordisk and PALs were getting real tricky and sneaky with the way that they were going about trying to Get wegovy approved for health versus just weight loss. And so what this this? And so what happens is they have astroturf companies so they look like they look like organizations that are like, funded by the people who are just advocating for health, but actually they're funded by Novo Nordisk and pals, and they are a mouthpiece for pushing their agendas forward. So anyway, so one of these, I can't remember who it was, was getting people to sign a petition to get the get semaglutide we go V approved for health. Because, as we can see, like with the Canadian government, they say there's no health benefits. So for people who are not diabetic, by the way, by the way, everything we're talking about is for people who are not diabetic, people taking it for weight loss, semaglutide, ozempic, other drug names in that family, GLP ones can be wonderful for people with diabetes. Yeah. We are talking about people who don't have diabetes are taking it to lose weight. Okay, so I don't want to scare people who have diabetes and are taking it and they're like, this is good for me. This works great. Perfect for weight loss. The dose is way, way higher, 2.4 2.4 milligrams, and these people don't have diabetes, so Anyway, anyway, anyway, anyway, anyway. Novo Nordisk were rubbing their hands together with glee being like, Oh, look at these amazing health benefits. 20% reduction in major adverse cut of it, cardiovascular events. Now, your guess, your guess, have a guess. Have a guess. Have a guess. Is that true? Is it true? Is it true? I'll be tinkling with the numbers a little bit. Maybe. You know, is there a little bit of false advertising with that statement? What's your guess? False advertising? Yes, yes, yes. How did you know? So turns out it was actually, in fact, a 1.5% reduction life changing, amazing, and only in a small group of mostly smaller fat cis men aged 61 with pre existing cardiovascular disease, without diabetes. So in this small group of men, and every listed author has either taken money from was contracted by OR is a direct employee of Novo, the drug manufacturer, plus many of the peer reviewers of the study were in the pockets of Novo and fan, fan fan. Reagan Chastain writes about this. If you were not subscribed to Reagan's sub stack, it's called weight in healthcare, then you should, because you're missing out on some gem, gem, gems. So Reagan wrote about this, and this is where I'm getting the info from. I also downloaded the study, and had a little had a little look, a look with my eyeballs. The post is the semaglutide wegovy cardiovascular outcome trial part one, and then she has a part two. And let me give you a quote from it. So Reagan writes now, let's dispense with the main claim being made, and the one that I'm seeing seeing most commonly repeated in the press, quote in part in patients treated with semaglutide. Weight Loss continued over 65 weeks, and was sustained for up to four years. At 208 weeks, semaglutide was associated with a mean reduction in weight of 10% blah, blah, blah, I don't want to read out the blah blah. And we have from from this study that Reagan's talking about, we have a figure, one percentage change in and we're going to get back to the cardiovascular thing in a bit percentage change in mean body weight from baseline through Week 208 for all patients in trial and first on treatment. And okay, so we've got, it's not looking good. It's not looking honestly, I think that they don't think that we're gonna look at, look at things, but most people don't write, you know, you hear a thing. Semaglutide is great for cardiovascular disease, amazing, of course, 20% reduction. You're just gonna, you're just gonna take the world because they're not lying. They're not lying. They're not, you know, being they're not twisting things anyway. So for weight loss, we can see the so what I'm looking at is I'm going to put this in an Instagram post so people can look at this too. Also you can go and google this if you want. Let me pull up the study again, so you can Google the title if you want, but obviously there's a load of fucking dog shit in there from it. So long term weight loss effects of semaglutide in O word without diabetes in the Select trial, hang on, let's pull up the let me just double check that that's the name of the study. So at the beginning of this, this trial for semaglutide, we had 8000 people taking semaglutide, 8800 people taking semaglutide, we had 8800 taking the placebo. And by the end of it, at 221, weeks, what was the dropout rate? What was the dropout rage? Yeah, that was a tight or long term weight loss effects of semaglutide in O word without diabetes in the Select trial, this came out in March, April 2024, okay, let's get rid of that. Okay, so what was I saying? The Trial lost 89.5% of the participants. So we started out with, let's just look at the people taking the drug. 8800 people. At the end we had 157 lols. That's so embarrassing. 157 and they're like, Bitch, this was a fucking success. Yes, and you look at week 65 week 65 that's when people their weight loss stops, and that's around nine pounds, and then it plateaus, goes up,

Vinny Welsby

20:21

and then is around 11 ish pounds at Week 221 Imagine, imagine you be taking this fucking thing For for 221 weeks, and you've lost 11 pounds. And here's a bit. Here's the thing, 157 is who we've got left. So 90% of people who dropped out. What if we had the figures of those who've dropped out? What if we weighed them? Because if Imagine you're in a trial. You're like, Fuck, man, I'm gonna lose weight on this thing. And you start losing weight at the beginning. So the first year, you've lost 10 pounds, miracle, quote, unquote, and then you're taking it and you're taking it and you're not losing any more weight, or your weights going up. Oh, my God, what's wrong with me? This is meant to be the miracle drug. I'm doing something wrong. I'm so greedy, I'm a loser. Am I gonna go back to get weighed and feel ashamed and embarrassed? Fuck no. Maybe baby the vessel a bit. But then you're like, why am I doing this? This is really and why am I still injecting myself every fucking week, and when the side effects are so shit, not for everyone, but imagine you're this person has, or if you don't have side effects, and you just don't want to get go back to go and get weighed, it should be like, huh, lost no way, or lost a pound in the last six months, good for you, or put on weight. And so why are we having this 90% dropout rate? And for the placebo, by the way, placebo started out 8800 and 152 so placebo only had five, actually eight. So placebo had pretty much the exact same dropout rate. Here's the thing, here's the thing. This is what your brain is probably saying. Hang on a minute. You say in the study, people are losing like 10 pounds or whatever. But sorry, sorry, sorry. Actually, it's not pounds, it's percentage, 10% 10% 10% 10% so for example, 210% of 200 is 20. Okay, so it can give you an idea of what that might look like on people. I'm gonna say that makes more sense, because we saw that it was 33 pounds that people were losing in two years. So that makes sense. I was gonna say, this isn't, yeah, this is like a low, low, low weight loss. Anyway, anyway, still not fantastic weight loss. You're gonna say, Hang on. We I've seen all over social media, people going, you know, losing loads of weight and becoming really small. The thing happened. The same thing happens with diets. And we know diets have a 95% failure rate, right? The people who are losing weight are the ones that were taking the pictures and showing off their fantastic weight loss, the people who had a terrible time. Do you think that they're going to be like, Hey everybody, here's my week one on, on isemi, he's my week 60. Same, same way. Lol, yeah, they're not going to do it, right? They're not going to do it. They're going to do it. They're going to be showing their before and afters, because they're before and afters are the same. So you see this, you know? This. What the information we're getting is that azem Pick really works, and you're going to see, you know, yeah, but my friend took a Zen pick, and they lost loads of weight, yeah. But what about all of the people in your life who are taking ozempic that have not told you who are not losing weight, and you might have also have friends who know, yeah, they lost a bit of weight, but they felt really sick, or although they lost no weight, or whatever. So the what we're seeing is kind of skewed. What the data is showing us is is not good. So go back. So going back to the cardiovascular thing, quoting from Reagan, the study is literally, I've read that this is a study name five times now published in the nature medical journal. Their abstract begins in the Select cardiovascular outcomes trial. Semaglutide showed a 20% reduction in major adverse cardiovascular events in 17,604 adults with pre existing cardiovascular disease, O word and o word without diabetes. Reagan says, already, the veracity of the claims in this study is pulled into serious question. First of all, 17,604 is the total number of the original participants, of which 8782 were in the placebo group, not the group that experienced the semaglutide treatment effect. You see how these tricky little tricksters do it. Next 20% is the relative risk reduction, which gives information only about the relationship between the two trial groups, the absolute risk reduction, which. Gives information about applicability outside the Trial Group. Group was only 1.5% 8% people in the non treatment group versus 6.5% people in the treatment group experienced one of the major adverse cardiac events the trial tracked. It seems to me that we are either to believe that these authors are unaware of an extremely basic statistics principle that is taught in high school statistics classes, or they are being purposely misleading in their writing. If you or hey, these study authors want to learn more about relative versus absolute risk. I have an explanation on this, but it's actually even more misleading than that. Their claim that this trial was of adults was patently ridiculous. The Trial only accepted people who were 45 and older, and the mean age was 61 which means we can infer that two thirds of the subjects were between 54 and 71 But wait, there's more. 72.3% of the subjects were cisgender men. There was no trans or non binary representation. Of course, that's me saying that. And 83.9% in the semaglutide group, and 84.1 in the placebo group were white. Ah, but wait, there's more. As deborgaard pointed out in figure s5 the hazard ratio. Ratios are not significant for women, black people, Hispanic people, people over 75 and the big one, fatter people. So let's rewrite their opening paragraph to be what's the word? Oh, yeah, accurate in the Select cardiovascular outcomes trial, semaglutide showed a 1.5 reduction in major adverse cardiovascular events in white cis men older than 45 with an average age of 61.6, at the lower end of the O word BMI scale who had pre existing Cardiovascular disease without diabetes. Not so amazing. But hey, 1.5% if you've got a really high risk of cardiovascular disease, then, and you're a white cisgender man who's around 60 years old, who doesn't have diabetes, who's got pre existing cardiovascular disease, you might say 1.5% reduction is worth it. And that's cool. That's cool, that's cool. You might say it's not worth it, because you know you're having to take this drug, inject this drug every week for the rest of your life. And as we saw we had in the previous episodes, 90% of people have adverse outcomes, 10% of them being severe. So you might say, is it worth that 1.5% are there other drugs? They're actually a lot more effective than 1.5% reduction, risk reduction. There's probably drugs that are a lot better than just 1.5% so they're kind of really grasping at straws here. Of of see, it makes people healthy, and it's very easy, that's why. So this really smart guy saw this thing presented. Let's help people with cardiovascular disease by signing this petition to get drugs that help cardiovascular disease approved. Fuck yeah. Of course, that sounds amazing. And then you dig into it a little bit and you're like, Huh, oh, what? And actually, I messaged that guy. There were some people under the comments being like, Dude, this is not what you think it is. And I messaged a guy, and I was like, Hey, by the way, this is what the problems are. You know, people are telling you in the post. And He came back and he came back, and he was like, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. And took the post down and told his friend, his friend was doing, they were doing a competition of who could get the most signatures, um, and, yeah, I think I'm not sure if the friend could go down. I think they probably think they did, because I, I don't remember there being an issue. But that was really cool. That was really cool to see this, this intelligent guy that I respect, who was just like, oh, yeah, shit, you know. And that's the thing. Shit happens, right? Sometimes we get it wrong, and that's okay, and we can, you know, we can course correct. So what else is going on in the world of a little zummy, okay, we have new study ties weight loss, drugs. We go via Zen picture, serious gastrointestinal conditions, and so this is what a lot of the side effects people are talking about. So this piece from CBC says issues like pancreatitis, stomach paralysis, higher among patients using GLP one inhibitor,

Vinny Welsby

29:38

quotes nearly five in every 1000 users of semaglutide drugs developed pancreatitis, compared to one in every 1000 users of Bupropion and for liraglutide, there was about eight cases of pancreatitis every 1000 users. The study says. A link to the study as well as this article, our cohort included four. 144 liraglutide, 613 semaglutide, and 654 the control group basically from 2006 to 2020, and excluded diabetics. Okay, so now we have, we have people who are able to report on what's it like being on this drug for for years now. So we've got this piece. What's it like to stay on ozempic for years? From NBC, few quotes from here, data from Novo Nordisk, which makes ozempic, suggests that the US providers were writing around 60,000 new weekly prescriptions for the drugs as of April 2023 but far fewer patients have been on the drug for years, given that it's relatively new and can cause side effects and is expensive without insurance coverage. NBC News identified and talked with seven people who have been on ozempic for between one and a half and two years. All generally agreed that the medication was not a fast pass to good health, although ozempic has helped them either shed pounds, lower the blood sugar levels or both. So we don't know if these people are a diabetic, so it would lower blood sugar levels in diabetics, and it would lower by nought point one and non diabetics. This isn't a magic bullet or pill, said Edward Matias 45 it's not the fountain of youth. It takes work and commitment. If people are asking for this med because they want to lose weight and they think they can eat anything at all, they're in for a rude awakening. He Matthias says he's taking it for his diabetes. A lot of these people are. They're saying really shameful, hurtful things about themselves, like, oh, I used to be really lazy and stuff. It's the normal kind of people who've lost weight, like smugness and cruelty to themselves. Of what I used to be a doctor, Dr Eduardo gronvalls, that there's a possibility that drugs might lower bone density or raise the risk of thyroid cancer, which has been detected in animal studies. Are we going to see that pop up with millions and millions of patients on these medications? He asked, but most likely, he said, the benefits probably still outweigh the risk I want like to who to who to who I think back to me 1020, years ago, the benefits would outright that weigh the risk in my brain, 100% I would have given so much to have a smaller body, but now Fuck no, because the benefits are societal. Are the way that people might treat you if you are a quote, good fatty and if you do indeed lose weight, society will be kinder to you, right? And you're going to have access to things that you were denied as someone with a bigger body. But as we know, it's temporary, because you have to take this drug for ever and ever. A quote from that. That piece, according to the Canadian Journal of Health Technologies, treatment with wegovy is expected to cost approximately 4726 Canadian dollars per patient per year. Let me tell you what that is in us, because unless you were us, four, seven, I think it's probably about three, 500 700 C, A, d2, USD, I guess 3500 3400, 3400 a year. You can buy a car with that. So to me, I'm like, fuck no. To others, fuck yes, right? And as well, if you have other marginalized identities, if you're a racialized person, if you're disabled, if you are trying to access surgery, ozempic wegovy may be worth the risk, right? So No Shame on people who are taking these drugs to survive, or even if you're not trying to survive and you just want to be thin, living in a world that is anti fat is really fucking hard, right? So for me, I'm just like, No, no, it's a doctor. From a piece from Global News says that most people are going to stay on these drugs for as long as they can afford them. Whoa. So that would be you paying $391 a month, Canadian dollars a month. And listen, I'm paying probably $300 a month for all of my medications that I have now in Canada because I don't have an Yeah, I am self employed, and that's with Canada paying some money towards it, right? Because we've kind of got a kind of color paid healthcare thing, but some, in some ways, we don't in drug, prescription things. Yeah? So imagine then you just stand $391 a month. That's I don't know about you, but I couldn't afford to do that. Plus, if I, you know, like 600 like $700 on medications a month, I couldn't do it. If, 20 years ago, I was presented with this, pay $400 a month and you'll become thin. I, you know what I'd say? My brain would say, Yeah, do it. Because you're only going to need to take it for like, a year, then you within forever, and I'd have this fairy tale of, okay, well, I'm just going to bite the bullet and go into debt to take this drug because then I'm going to get all of my dreams and hopes and all of that type of stuff, and then a year would come around and I'd be like, Fuck, I'm not losing any more weight. And, like, Shit, I can't afford to keep taking it and it would you just go tits up, right? That's what I know. I would my brain would be saying, as we know we've got reporting on people asking this one piece from Medical News Today, why weight loss, drugs stop working, and how to break past the ozempic Plateau. There is no way to get past the ezemic Plateau anyway, so highlights from this, drugs like azempic eventually reach a weight loss plateau, beyond which further weight loss slops or slows or stops like any other Healthy Weight Loss Method, healthy weight loss methods like Stop it, oh, my Goodness, the body eventually settles at an appropriate weight, which may or may not be may not correspond with that person's weight loss goals. GLP, one medications require a lifelong commitment if one hopes to avoid regaining lost weight, which can be expected when one stops taking them. Basically. So this Dr mir Ali says the studies I've seen say, say that patients tend to plateau with semaglutide at 60 weeks, so it's over a year, which is pretty good. How's that? Pretty good? What honestly, the cognitive dissonance here? So it's like how to get over the plateau diet. Hang on. They're already dieting like, that's the whole thing. Why we go V? People are like, we go V is great, because dieting doesn't work like, because o word is a chronic, lifelong disease condition, which is bullshit. So hang on. What? Okay, so this Endocrinologist, Dr Jason Ng, explains in mechanics, weight loss plateau happens when your body's energy burns. Energy burn equals energy being added through food. Initially with weight loss, when you significantly decrease energy intake, the body will get energy needs through other sources, such as glyco glycogen. This triggers weight loss over time. As you lose weight, your metabolism will slow down to compensate the point at which you your metabolism. Metabolism is equal to how much energy you intake through food. Is when the plateau hits. How does he know this? This is not what the information we have. This is just describing a diet. You know, for a traditional diet, we don't have that. The thing is, we don't have a lot of information about this drug and Okay, so one of the questions is, Will I need a stronger dose of semaglutide? Once you reach a maximum dose, which is 2.4 milligrams, you can't go any further than that, dietary changes and more powerful medications. So they're talking about taking extra more GLP ones or modified exercise programs do not get off. Get one off their plateau. They may have reached the limit of such drugs effectiveness. It's so, it's so it's so interesting. It's, you know, people are like, getting swept up in that I can lose weight, I can lose weight. And, you know, there's a solution, there's a solution. And it's like the sadness of Oh, but it's not what we thought. And then they go back to have you considered a diet. Well, you're not working out enough. It goes back to that saying you are doing it wrong, not the drug is shit. This piece from the New York Times, by the way, if you ever want to get past a paywall, go to archive.ph, put in the link, and then it's like a web page archiving tool that you know. So whenever not everything's on there, but you know, most things, almost everything I've ever put in there, you can find a it from behind the the paywall, and you can also look back in. There's an internet time machine where you can look back at how things might have been before. Anyway, this, this piece from the New York Times. You've lost weight taking obesity drugs. What happens if you stop? Sorry, I said the O word. Then

Vinny Welsby

39:18

many patients are eager to discontinue. We gave you a Zep Zepp bound, which is another GLP one when their weight loss plateaus, but doctors say it's difficult to go go cold turkey. Susanna Parks was delighted when she lost x pounds on Eli Lilly's o drug Zepp bound. But now that she's had her goal weight she questions, can she stop taking the drug? And if she does, how can she maintain her weight loss. I can't stop cold turkey, or I'll gain it back. That is clear. Said, Ms Park 60 of Bend, Oregon, do I go to a lower dosage? Do I take it every two weeks instead of weekly? How do I maintain these questions are becoming coming, becoming common. O medicine specialists say, as. More and more people lose weight with O drugs. Some struggle to pay for the medicine, have difficulty finding it to purchase, or just don't want to stay on the drug longer than they believe they need to. When doctors are confronted with these queries, here is what they advise, what they say they can't doctor this doctor, this O doctor says, on average, everyone's weight rapidly returned when stopping the drug. And he said other medical conditions like elevated blood sugar and lipid levels return to their previous levels after improving when you stop taking the drug. Hearing that Dr Cummins said, some patients want to take a chance that they will not need the drugs once they lose enough weight, which is, you know what I know my brain would be thinking. He says, Some tell him, I will be the one. I just need some help to get the weight off. Yes, yes, and that's what I thought about diets, too, yeah, but everyone else is lazy and greedy. I'm gonna work really hard, and I'm gonna be the successful one, because I really want it. I'm in so much pain from being fat in this society, I will do anything. And then that didn't happen, because my body was like, shut up, shut up. Give me some fucking food. So far, though, Dr Cummins has not seen patients who have succeeded well, well, will lowering my dose help me keep the weight off? The doctors say they have no data to guard their answer to that question, it's not been studied in a systemic fashion. Says Alison Schneider, a spokeswoman for Novo Nordisk, there is no magic. Bullock, says Dr Mitchell a Lazar, does this mean I have to take wegovy forever? Most patients want to lose as much as they can, but don't want to be stuck on the medicine for the rest of their lives. Dr cummin said, the most Cummins said the most common question is, how long do I take it? The proper answer is probably forever. He said, some patients tell Dr Cummins it sounds like he's giving them a life sentence, and others simply do not believe him. In a study of electronic health records by truvita, a healthcare data company, more than half, a half of patients without diabetes stopped taking drugs within a year, but about third who stopped restarted. I remember when I was on Weight Watchers, and I had lost weight to become a straight sized person, and I was one of the dickheads that would weigh people and be like, he's so lazy and greedy in my head, if they hadn't lost weight. So I was really entrenched in Weight Watchers, and I just remember being like, is this it Do I have to do this forever? Like I can do this temporarily. I can starve myself temporarily, but I cannot go on. It's not physically possible, like, and it was so disappointing, like, like, I've been sold this lie of, it's okay, it's just, just lose away. Just lose away. And, you know, then, but it wasn't. It was this prison, and it was so devastating that I'd worked so hard to starve myself so long, counting all these fucking points and, oh, exhausting. There was no end to it. It's like running a marathon forever. You could, probably won't run one marathon two, you know, barely, you'd probably be close to death. But then imagine it's like, no, you just have to keep going forever. Maybe some people can tolerate that, right? So people can afford it. But we don't know, we don't know what, what's going to happen. We haven't got the data of what if people are on this for life. We don't have that data yet, right? And, of course, in this time, we've had lots of horror stories come out. I mean, we've had lots of notes of people dying. However, these are people who are taking the drugs and die, right? So in as of April 2024 for 2024 there was 222 deaths in 2024 in 2023 there was 89 deaths 2022 42 and it goes down with less usage, obviously, one. We don't actually know that azempic made those people die. And two of the hundreds of 1000s of people taking it, if there's 222 deaths, even if we can absolutely 100% say they are all caused byzempic, that is not necessarily a gargantuan amount, it's still absolutely concerning. Like I, you know, I wouldn't be want to be taking a drug that can cause death, but we don't have that data, but we have lots of like when I'm googling this, like azem Pick stories, a lot of law firms come up, of law of law firms starting suits against Novo Nordisk and friends. And people having these, all these adverse outcomes. So this is still a developing thing, right? So I'm looking at this lawsuit, legal news from july 20, July 2024, and talking about, there's lots of issues with lots you know, it's hard to say yet, is that gallbladder lawsuits, stomach paralysis lawsuits and low vision claims, also, they're not necessarily differentiating between people who are taking it for diabetes or who people are taking it for weight loss. We know there's lots of of side effects. The prediction was that death was going to be a side effect. But I think it's too early to say we don't have that. You know that data is going to come in the following years of the reality of it, but you know, I'm not going to say that. Yeah, listen, we've had hundreds of deaths from mozem pick because we don't have that concrete information. However, we have, like, I watched the documentary, like, for example, this Australian woman was wanted to slim down for her daughter's wedding, and then she died. She got gastro paralysis and and died. And her family like, it's one, we know it's ozempic because she was absolutely fine beforehand, and they really deeply feel and then, so the cause of death was gastro, stomach paralysis, right? But was that stomach paralysis caused by ozempic,

Vinny Welsby

46:32

probably? But is it also another case of, you know, how they say that, you know, X amount of fat people died a year, and it's like fat people happen to die, or fat people happen to die and they had diabetes. Well, okay, so they died from fatness, right? So we don't want to be conflating the figures like that and saying, Okay, well, hundreds of people died from Zen pick. Well, we'll take a break from that and see, you know, come back to that, and maybe in a couple of years, we'll come back to that and and see what we've got you mean, if we have a lawsuit of hundreds of 1000s of people coming together, then I think that would be more significant. Okay, so this one article from Rolling Stone says she shared her a Zen pick horror story Tiktok users tried to silence her. Kimberly Carew started experiencing a rare but serious side effect of the medication, but people didn't want to hear about it. A mental health professional and a single mum, Kimberly Carew knows how to ask for help. So when she told her endocrinologist that she was experiencing some pretty painful side effects after starting an Olympic prescription, she was surprised when none of her doctors had any idea of what was causing her pain. Even worse, saying continued her to they encouraged her to continue the drug. It was horrific. It was a horrible experience that no one, none of my doctors, seemed to understand or really believe. It was a shock for them, like no, this is supposed to be a miracle drug. What are you talking about? During her time on ozempic and injectable blah, blah, blah, Carew was unable to keep her food all watered down. She had uncontrollable muscle spasms and pre existing joint and back pain. Fed up because of frequent vomiting, she was hospitalized twice for dehydration, developed pneumonia, and was shown showing extensive signs of malnutrition. When her doctors finally ran some tests, her stomach wasn't just hurting, it was paralyzed. Karu was diagnosed with gastroparesis, a condition where your stomach muscles, which usually aid with digestion, slow to imperceptible levels, which is what semaglutide does, right? That's the mechanism, although we don't know that much about it, stops food moving through your body. This keeps food that should be leaving your body on a normal ribbon, stuck inside your gut, and can cause long, lasting and violent bouts of nausea, bloating, vomiting, pain and even malnutrition. While it may be rare, gastroparesis isn't curable, can only be managed. So when Karoo realized her journey had just begun, she started a small series on Tiktok, documenting a process of recovering with the goal of raising awareness and finding community around an extremely rare side effect. But when she posted her first video on the topic, she went from trying to convince her doctors to trying to convince an entire app. The video was viewed over 600,000 times in a wave of pro ozempic user accused over accused her of being dramatic, lying about her diagnosis, spreading misinformation and trying to give them give the medication a bad name. She wanted to warm them and they wanted her to shut up. I mean, when you're on this thing, that's going to give you all these wonderful things in return, you don't want to hear you want to hear that. If someone tell me that, you know, oh, you could get there's a chance that you could have this side effect. I'm like, so I'm going to be kind of, I'm gonna come thin bitch, you know, who cares is what I would, my brain would say at the time. We have something from global news. A lot of these things are Canadian, right? Because I'm in Canada talking about this woman says the good, the bad and the ugly of being on ozempic. And she's like, I. Is she a therapist or something? It's really sad. It's really sad. Basically, she says, The good is that I have a smaller body and people treat me nicer. The bad is it's fucking horrible. And they show a picture of her, and I'm like, for fucks, like, How many times have I seen pictures of people who were on the Zen pick and they're like, Oh my God, my life is out of control. I was so fat I can fucking do anything. And then you see a picture of them, and they're a small, fat person. You're like, What the fuck? What? Why lying? Well, I know they're lying. They're probably they're blaming their body size for things that are related to health and fitness or disability or whatever. Anyway. So she says that that the the there were major downsides, but the downsides are worth it. So, so she says that she's done everything to lose weight. She says she's done, I've done every single diet on the face of the planet. Failed at every single one of them. You didn't fail. They failed. You, um, they'd all work for a certain period of time, and then they wouldn't, kind of like a zambou. Then she said that she went under bariatric surgery, I feel so much for this person. I just want to like, No, you're so close. You're so close because they're talking about weight bias and stuff and how it's not it's not nice to treat fat people badly. But her way of escaping weight bias as a small fat person was to temporarily lose weight. So anyway, so she underwent bariatric surgery, the removal of the large part of the stomach to reduce hunger signals and induce weight loss. She lost weight and ran half a marathon to mark the occasion. She calls it one of the best decisions of her life. But in the years that followed, her weight eventually started creeping back on, no matter what she did to try and stop it. And so in 2019 her o word specialist suggested ozempic. So she's lost weight, and so she says it's great because the world treats you well. It's very, very different. Men want to date her. Oh no, she's not a therapist. She says she's worked with a therapist. I wonder if that therapist is fat, positive, probably not. And then she says, she says she's an advocate for health any size, but zempix marketing messages have obviously penetrated her brain, because there's a lot of spouting that, you know, O word is a disease, a lifelong condition, by the way, that sounds on service level, that sounds Yes, that sounds right, right. Thing is, I have, I've done a whole episode on this, why a word is not a disease. The only thing that all fat people have in common is that they have fat on their body. That's the crux of it, right? So, how are you going to treat that disease like? What are the what are the poor outcomes of that disease? Well, one person, you might say, well, you know, you know, fat people have diabetes, not, not all of them. And then people get diabetes. Well, fat people die earlier. Do they? We have contradicting evidence around that, like so how about instead of treating the body size, we treat the actual conditions, not the body size, because there doesn't seem to be a lot of things are clearly, demonstrably connected, that we can say all fat people have these outcomes anyway, also something that's designated a disease, then insurance companies will cover it. So why do we think that Novo is encouraging this rhetoric of fatness being a disease? Because it will make the money anyway. So, you know, a lot of people are half there. They're saying, hey, Health at Every Size is a good thing. She, I mean, she's talking about Health at Every Size, but then she's, I'm the zenfic. Make it make sense. If you want to be healthy, you can be healthy. We can walk maybe what work towards health at your current size? Who knows? Health is a more forced concept? You might not ever be healthy. Whole episodes on health and morality and all that type of stuff, healthism and ableism. Anyway. So it's kind of like you're almost there, you're almost there, but you just No, no. Anyway, so this person says, you know, it's worth it for them, because people treat them better, which is so fucking sad, and because it's true, right? It's true. There's no, there's no lie in that. There's no, you know, it's true. And so if people are taking doing anything to become smaller, I get it. Shit, I get it, but for me, that feels like a lot. It feels at times, it feels, you know, fickle, and like giving the bully your lunch money just to get them to go away, it is harder, and you have to have a lot of privilege to be able to say, I'm not giving you my lunch money, because there's consequences to that, and so sometimes you might just be like, Okay, I'm going to give you my money and deal with a smile on my face. That might be the option for some people. For me, I have the privilege in my identity of being a white person, of being university educated, of being able to access therapy. And having certain supports and La, la, la, my body side, blah, blah, blah, as a medium fat person versus as very a large fat person or a super sized fat person, etc, etc. So that's my personal experience, right? It's not for everyone. Okay? So let's talk about some trashy things. What is going on on the tick tocks and stuff? Because, you know, we're gonna put a little bit of trashy stuff in there. And, you know, I'm just embracing, I'm I'm embracing this side of, you know what? There's sometimes I do like a little bit of trashy things, like nighty day fiance, I know, what are the trashy things that you like anyway. I like, do you know Ira like, night, day fiance, because doesn't fuck with my my body. The way that I view my body, because we have with not everyone on there is like, this model type. Everyone is different, right? There are some people who are model types, whatever. I notice my brain is influenced when I'm watching things like, what's that silly show where people get married really quickly. Love is blind. They're all, like, incredibly attractive, according to society, and so that might like chips away at my brain, and my brain is

Vinny Welsby

56:10

like, you should maybe get this, and you should become young again. And you know, but with Night Day fiance, Night Day fiance, there's lots of different variety of people, so it doesn't really do that to me, and so I can enjoy it in it in peace. So what are people saying on the internet? People are saying, if you take a Zen pick you're going to get a Zen pick face. Now, what is a Zen pick face? It is losing volume in your face. And people are saying that this looks unattractive. It was coined by a dermatologist, obviously, who wants to then, well, you've become Finn now, but now you're not pretty. You have azempic face. You're fucking ugly. So you need to get me get some fucking fillers and have some surgery, bitch, because you can't ever you can't win, right? The house always win with beauty ideals. A house always wins. You get thin, but you've got a Zen pick face, but you've got loose skin, but you're getting older, but you're this, but you're that, but you blah, blah, blah, it's never ending. You're never gonna arrive, right? You're never gonna get to the epitome of beauty, because then they'll say, actually, big lips are out. Now, apparently big lips are out now, is what I found out. And so you can't ever keep up, because the people with with wealth are able to access these, these trends, and by the time poor people are starting to access them, they become untrendy again. So you know what? I just me, I'm just not in interested in gambling with this stuff. I know the house always wins. You know, I like, I went to Vegas and I did $20 on something, and I got $20 back. And I said, okay, cool. Thanks, done. You know, just because I thought it was a bit of fun and I could afford to lose $20 and so that's the way I engage with beauty, is if I want to do something for a bit of fun and it feels good to me, I know I'm ever going to get attain this beauty ideal, because it's impossible, but it might feel fun, and that's fine. You know, it's no big deal if I lose $20 or whatever. But it's when we're investing everything in our lives to get to this place that is not possible, and we don't know that the house wins. We're thinking we're gonna get there. We don't anyway, so, so people are now dragging other people online, being like, Oh, look how ugly are. They have an ozempic face. So that's fucked up now as well. Side face is also side note. This is also think called pillow face, which is just, you know, an ex, another example of how you can never keep up, and how these trends, and maybe, you know, not so great, you know, fillers, how the trend has been recently, in the last, I don't know, five years, to have very large lips and filler and to get cheek bones, or whatever it is, that what They had thought about filler originally, is that filler is absorbed into your body, and so you get a top up and a top up and a top up every whatever six months, is what they they had the dermatologists, or whoever the surgeons recommended. It turns out that it doesn't your body doesn't clear it, that it's just kind of stacking filler on filler, and then it dissipates into your face. It spreads around your face, and it makes your face into like has volume in your face. And so people are getting dragged for that now, and they're having their fillers dissolved, then they're having their fillers dissolved, and then it leaves them with lips that are kind of deflated looking. So they can never, ever you get fillers. Oh, finally, I'm good looking. I have fillers and, oh no. Now my face, now that it's not working in the same way it did, oh no. I'm back to zero. Now I have to get dissolved the fillers, because now the trend is thin lips and oh no, no. My lips don't do so I want to have to get a surgery to like, it's just never ending, really, you know what? With this stuff, with this stuff, I always. Just think when there's a trend and I'm like, Ah, you know, because sometimes I have looked at my lips and been like, maybe they should be bigger, and then I'm like, shut up, stop it, in the most in the most loving kind way to myself of Yeah, I know it feels like you should have bigger lips, but investing in in doing something like that doesn't align with your values, and also it might make you feel temporarily good, as the trend of big lips is in because that, you know, but you thinking, well, the trend of big lips is always going to be it, because it feels like that. That's what beauty is. But then it shifts. It shifts right? You remember, in the when we were growing, I don't know if how old we were, but what, you know, the really thin eyebrows, and then everyone would pluck their eyebrows, and they'd be really thin. And now, you know, and then it got bigger eyebrows, and people with thin eyebrows were like, oh my god, what am I going to do? And so they have to get tattoos on their faces and to get the eyebrows filled in, or whatever. And I just think, I'm just going to take a step back from all of that shit, because it feels exhausting. It feels you can't keep up. You can't you cannot keep up. That's what is designed. You can't keep up. So and also, like if that, if you've got lip fillers and whatever, if that feels good for you. Wonderful. I'm really pleased that people can access things gender affirming, things like having fillers or whatever it is people might do to access happiness in their lives, but I see it as a way that might bring me temporary happiness, maybe, but long term, it won't. So we have lots of celebrities on azem Pig, obviously, we have Oprah, who did a whole fucking show about it. That was absolutely dog shit I made a post about like Oprah's history of losing weight, and it's really fucking sad, you know, from her bringing out that wagon full of fat, being like, I finally did it and and then throughout the years, she puts on weight, obviously, because no fault of her arm, because she's a human. And think of all of the tools that Oprah has access to so she'll lose weight, put it back on. Lose weight, put it back on. And every time she loses weight, she's like, This is it. And so in the post I have, it's like all of the new, best, new things that was being touted at the time and how that was it. And his npic is the same. So Whoopi Goldberg, people really talk unkindly about themselves after they've lost weight, right? Like the worst fat people are the fat people, the worst thing people are the people that used to be fat people, because they really are horrible about themselves and fat people. Tracy Morgan, the comedian, people say you've been working on your body and your health. No, that's a Zen pick. That's how this weight got lost. Sharon Osborne, and then what did Kelly Osborne, Sharon's daughter say something like, she said something really fucking rude. Like, are you too poor to afford a Zen pick? Let me see what she said. She says something that Kelly Osborne is a Zen pick poor. If it was, was it a Zen pick that she said, Oh yeah, people hate it because they want to do it. She said, critics are just mad that they couldn't afford his epic. And she so she said, and the people who hate on it are the most people who the people who hate on it the most are the people who are secretly doing it or pissed off they can't afford it. Oh, dear. Kelly Osborne, she said some really things in her time, all of these celebrities that are taking, taking it are, are straight sized. There's one, like, one or two who are like, there are so slightly softer. Oh, Lord. Billie Jean King the tennis star. She's 80 years old. She said she started taking his epic because she'd hope her manage her eating disorder. No. She says, I'm a binge eater. Oh. Billie Jean King, no, because this whole thing like, oh, it stops the food. Noise, it stops the food. Noise, food. Noise, being a pre occupation with eating, yeah, no. What helps stop the food? Noise, letting yourself have access to food. That's all I ever used to think of. Think about. Was food, food, food. As soon as I woke up, food. What am I allowed to eat? Because I was fucking starving, maybe not physically, but mentally, I was not allowing myself what I was as soon as I started allowing myself what I wanted, intuitive eating. I am just so much. I'm just surprise, surprise, I don't have any food. Noise apart from, oh, it's lunch. I'm hungry, like, right now. I'm hungry because it's past lunch time. Okay, so ezempic and Tiktok, there's actually been a freaking article science from Science Direct, they studied ezempic and Tiktok. What they found was so they looked at the first 100 videos that they came across, 70 million times, viewed 70 million times, which highlights the potential of Tiktok for reaching large numbers of people with information about weight loss and increasing the popularity of medications such as ozempic. It is noteworthy that our our sample of azemk Tiktok videos were largely uploaded by. Professionals, which made raise a variety of concerns. And most of the videos that they found were people saying, I'm on, I'm on pick and and like, kind of promoting ozempic. But however, uh, this article from Rolling Stone says that that tick tock has now clamped down on ozempic stuff. So from this article, quote, the company's website states it wants the app to be a place that encourages self esteem and does not promote negative social comparisons. When reached for a comment by Rolling Stone, a Tiktok spokesperson referred back to the new guidelines, saying that policies were mainly expanded to prevent the sale of weight loss or performance enhancing drugs on the site, and they still allow for people to share their weight loss journeys, as long as they aren't extreme dangerous or relating to use of GLP, one medications for weight loss, good for you, Tiktok, but we should get rid of all of the weight loss content. That would be good. Now you may have heard it. There was a shortage, and apparently there are still shortages predicted for the rest of 2024

Vinny Welsby

01:06:06

so that's fun for the people who are taking azemic for diabetes that they would have really adverse effects from not having because people are taking it for weight loss. I know a lot of people I've seen online who have diabetes are like, Fuck you and very mad about the people taking it for weight loss because they can't access their medicine, which is absolutely understandable. So, yeah, that's the update on ozempic. So basically, you know, we're using the word ozempic. Actually it's we go V or semaglutide is the actual medication. Basically, what we found is that in the years since it's been out that people are having adverse outcomes as expected, lawsuits are being started for for deaths, that Novo Nordisk are claiming that there's a great benefit for cardiovascular events, reduction in major cardiovascular events, but in fact, it was a 1.5% not a 20% reduction. Other studies are showing that we have other adverse outcomes, like gastroparesis, that we have a lot of, oh, we have a lot of celebs and other people on social media showing the results of azem pick. But the reality is, the studies show that people are losing about 10% of their body weight up to the first year, and then it plateaus, and weight loss would be immediately returned by not necessarily immediately, but weight loss return if you stop taking it, you have to take it forever. 90% of people have adverse effects. 10% of them are severe costs. About 400 Canadian a month to take the drug reports of people dying, but we don't know if that's directly connected, but I'm sure we'll find out in the future, and we still have a shortage in a number of places. So yeah, kind of what we expected, wasn't it? Kind of what we expected with this type of thing. It takes time to really know the full picture of what's going on. And I just want you to know, as someone who's been doing this work for had this business for like 11 years now, there's so often that these things come along, right and, and whatever it is something you know, whatever it is, like a weight loss thing, or or or a trend, a beauty trend or whatever, I just say to myself, I'm just gonna give it some time. Gonna give it some time, because it can, you know, it can be really hard for people. I people have said to me, Listen, I see people everywhere are taking it. Everyone's taking it, and everyone's becoming thin. And that's what it can feel like, you know? And why am I? I'm missing out. I'm missing out. I could be thin like them, and I'm going to be the only one fat one left. And that's that really feels very, very true. But we're not seeing everything in the background. We're not seeing necessarily. We can't see into the future, so we don't know what's going to happen. And you know, I would love to go back to people who were, you know, because some people were commenting on my post being like, I'm taking his empathic amazing and go back to them being like, are you still taking it? Is it still amazing? I wonder. I wonder, like with dieting, if I know someone is on a diet, what I think is, you know, I'm not jealous, I'm not angry at them. I just think I really am sending them love and hoping they don't feel so deeply ashamed when the weight comes back off, because we know that that is very likely to happen. And so it's almost I feel like I'm just seeing into the future of all of this hard work that you know, everything. They've done to get to that point, and how upset they're going to feel with themselves, how much they're going to shame themselves, how much disappointment they're going to feel. And I just I feel compassion for them. And so when you're feeling this like, oh my god, everyone's on a Zen pit, I want you to try and extend compassion for yourself for that feeling, because that's totally normal. I mean, if you could see all of these people accessing privilege and seemingly accessing joy and maybe accessing health and accessing community from taking this drug, fuck. Why would you not want to take it? But what if you could see their future and see them being like, I can't afford to take this drug anymore, and I'm going to put back on all the weight, or I can't tolerate taking this drug anymore because it makes me feel really shit and then putting back on all the weight, or taking the drug and feeling really ashamed. But like that, they can't continue to lose weight because they've lost, you know, 10% of their body weight. And if they're a fat person, 10% is probably not going to make them a thin person, right? It's not going to make them a thin person. So, yeah, try and keep that in mind. And also, if you like, No, I just, I'm going to do it. I need to access, I need to access I I've been denied gender confirmation, affirmation surgery, because I need to lose weight. So I'm going to take a Zen pick, go for it. I need to have a break from experiencing this awful anti fat bias in this society, and I want to get a partner, and I want to be loved, and I know I won't be able to do that at this weight, or I feel I can't do this at this weight, and so I'm going to do it. Do it. You know, if that's what's what feels good for you, and that, what's, that's what, what that what that's what works for you. And also, I want you to be prepared for giving yourself some loving kindness and compassion at the other side of it. And a lot of people are, are, you know, have to gage in engaging transaction or weight loss in order to access care. And they already know all this, right? And they already know it's going to be shit, and they already know that it's, it's a temporary state in order to access care, but they're doing it anyway, and that's really not that's, it's so fucked up that we have to do that. So yeah, anyway, sending love to everyone. Hope you're I just hope you're okay. Listen, life is hard, right? So life is hard, and fucking Novo Nordisk can suck my fucking dangly tits. I hate them. But actually, you know, if you're a diabetic and they're giving you good drugs, and I see like things are not black and white white, things are not black and white, right? But also not even others have had some scandals. Go back to the other episodes and you're like, so they're a bit of a scandalous Well, I mean, drug manufacturers, what can you what can you expect? All right? Well, hope you've enjoyed this episode. If you like the show and you want to support me, there's two ways you can do that. One, you can leave a review. You know what? I've not asked anyone to leave a review in ages, and no one's left a review because I didn't asked it. I'm just like, oh, people might leave reviews if I don't ask them. No, no, no, no, that's not it doesn't happen. It doesn't happen. So if you don't have money, or you have money, you don't want to give it to me, that's fine. If you can leave a review, that would be lovely. Or you don't have to you. I'm not the boss of you. You do you. You can just listen to it and then be like, see a Layla loser. If you do want to become a part of my ko fi, which is like Patreon, you can do that for five doll hairs a month, and you'll get the size diversity Resource Guide, which is on mortime. Or you can do up to $20 why not? You've got the money hanging around. Why not again? You don't have to. I love you either way. All right. Well, thanks for hanging out and have a wonderful day. Remember you're worthy. You always were. You always will be. Stay fierce, fatty. Goodbye. You.

Unknown Speaker

01:14:10

Perfect. You.

00:0000:00