🧬Pressing CBG Cultivars, Ancillary Cannabinoids, and Extraction Tech, with CBG Gurus

12:11AM Jan 28, 2025

Speakers:

Jordan River

Keywords:

CBG gurus

ancillary cannabinoids

hemp cultivation

medicinal effects

CBG extraction

cannabis breeding

polyculture farming

natural farming

pheno hunting

cannabinoid research

hemp market

cannabis genetics

cannabis processing

hemp products

cannabis industry

Greetings, listeners worldwide. Jordan River here back with more grow cast, a full spectrum podcast today we have a brand new guest. That's right. We have CBG gurus joining us. They are working out in the East Coast, working on ancillary cannabinoid breeding. We're going to talk about hemp, CBG, CBD, and making extraction from different types of these different type of ratio cultivars. So very excited. I know you're gonna love today's episode before we jump into it, though, shout out to AC infinity. That's right. Acinity.com, code grow, cast one five, now saves 15% across the board. At AC infinity, they're trying to send you to their directly to their website now, and we are encouraging you to use code grow. Cast one five, you'll save 15% no matter what you buy. And orders $99 or more, get free shipping. So go straight to acinity.com use that code grow. Cast one five to get yourself a new Grow Tent kit. AC Infinity has everything you need to succeed. They've got great build quality. They've been making fans for a long time, best fans in the game, and now you can save 15% on all of their awesome items with code grow. Cast one five, once again, it's AC infinity.com. Use code grow cast one five for 15% off, free shipping on orders $99 or more, and if you're still ordering on Amazon, use code growcast for 5% off there. Thank you to AC infinity, and thank you guys for using our codes, it supports AC infinity, it supports us, and we appreciate you helping keep the lights on. All right, everyone, let's get into it with CBG gurus. Thank you for listening and enjoy the show. Hello, podcast listeners. You are now listening to grow cast. I'm your host, Jordan River, and I want to thank you for tuning in again today, before we get started, as always, I urge you to share this show, turn a grow around to grow cast, spread the show really helps us out. Or turn a smoker into a grower by convincing them to pop their first seeds. The best way you can help us in our mission of overgrow. Make sure you're subscribed. Go to growcast podcast.com there you will find everything, the seeds, the classes, the membership huge. Thank you to the members for making this whole thing possible. Be sure to check it out. Today, we're back on the line. We have a brand new guest on grow cast, very excited to talk to this individual about ancillary cannabinoids. You know, we hear a lot about testing revealing different types of cannabinoids that play into our very nuanced cannabis experience, things like CBG, things like THC, V these ancillary cannabinoids, they can have a huge medicinal effect, and there's so much to go over when it comes to cultivating them and processing them. That's exactly what we're going to talk about today with our guest from the CBG gurus. He's the co founder and CEO. Sean is with us from CBG gurus. What's up, Sean, how you doing?

I'm doing great man, out here on the deck overlooking the field on this beautiful day in Connecticut. So really excited to talk to you, and, you know, tell everybody a little bit about what it is we're doing here. How you been? How you doing?

I'm doing great. Doing very well. Since we last spoke, you know, we did a pre interview, and I was very interested in the work that you're doing Sean, before we get into like CBG as a compound, and working with it and turning it into hash and rosin and this sort of stuff. Why don't you give the audience a bit of a introduction on yourself, what brought you into cannabis, and then what brought you from the cannabis world in general, specifically to CBG and ancillary cannabinoids,

sure thing. So I have been pretty passionate about cannabis for quite a while. I actually started my college career trying to pursue pre med, and I was a division one athlete, so I had to stop my use for a little while, and then I really wanted to just focus on school more. So I, you know, stopped being an athlete, focused on school. And, you know, some Google ads showed me a program for a medicinal plant chemistry major at Northern Michigan University, a new program. So I applied there on a whim, happened to get in, moved across the country, never had been to the Midwest or the Upper Peninsula, but, you know, just kind of took a deep dive in that regard. That probably was the first step to really devoting my life to cannabis as a career. And then when I was up in Michigan, I learned quite a lot. I kind of got taken under the wing of a long time caregiver who really taught me how to grow, and then I learned about, you know, science aspect of it. While I was in school, made some great connections. And after school, I really kind of had the option to do maybe more or less whatever I wanted. You know, really young field there in Michigan still at the time 2021, so But I decided to move back to Connecticut, where I was, you know, raised here in harwinton, Connecticut, and our house here sits on 13 acres. We've got probably, like four to seven that are really cultivatable. And we're right now farming about half an acre to an acre. Story of outdoor poly culture, mixed cannabis and produce. Wow,

that sounds incredible. Man, what a story. There's a lot that I want to drill down on there, but I'll make this short and sweet. First of all, going into the kind of academia side and learning that, what did you find? The difference was in the knowledge that you learned from the academic side versus working with someone like a caregiver on a cultivation did they both come in handy? Were they different flavors? Tell me about that

definitely both come in handy. I kind of like to think about it like in school, I was trained to be a scientist, and then, you know, my homie taught me, like how to how to start to run a grow, at least, you know, how to work with the plants and take care of the plants. Because in school, I mean, it was a lot of classes. We did a lot of things, but the degree was really focused on training us how to use the analytical instruments. So I was, you know, trained on like an HPLC, running different types of potency and terpene testing. Oh, really. But we did like birch bark extraction, and, you know, pulled the betulin out of birch bark and then ran that through the HPLC and tested, you know, for those compounds. So I think that's what the degree was really focused on, is like training us to run these instruments, which a lot of college students don't get the experience or exposure to, and it's a really valuable skill if you're trying to work in a lab. But just having the the degree and the experience kind of around that type of, you know, learning environment and those type of people, I think, really opened our opportunities to a lot of different things. I mean, I've got a lot of friends who are like, got on the ground floor of some grows out in Michigan. I've got friends working in labs kind of really all across the board so but I think the classes trained me to kind of be a scientist and work like a scientist and think like a scientist, and run experiments and have good documenting skills and all that stuff. And then, you know, getting my hands on plants, obviously, was super valuable in school. We couldn't work with phc cannabis, but we actually were allowed to work with like CBD and CBG genetics, like for our senior thesis project. I don't know if they run it any differently now, but we were individualized and more or we had one partner, and we were more or less able to kind of choose, like, you know, what we wanted to do. So actually grew some hemp plants for my senior thesis project in school, in the lab, which was a little bit chaotic. I think a lot of other kids also trying to grow things. But definitely a learning experience nonetheless. And it was fun to, you know, have that experience well, in college, definitely really unique opportunity.

This other guy's like, I'm cultivating powdery mildew for my you're like, No, that's really cool. Man, I like the hybrid background of not just, you know, being interested in plant science, but actually going through, I don't think a lot of growers do that, slash, have that opportunity, like you said, to kind of go through the academic side. Sounds very interesting. How did that lead you to CBG, specifically,

well, with the degree, I think maybe my parents had a little bit more confidence in my ability to actually do something. So, you know, because I've been dreaming about growing a field of hemp ever since middle school. You know it was, it was an out there proposal back then, but,

uh, it is an easier pitch once you have a horticultural degree, if you're talking to your parents, then yeah, for sure,

right? So, like I said, the the opportunity was there to kind of come back here and use this, this land that we have, that I grew up on, that, you know, my dad was just mowing the grass basically, so it's picking up his time and resources. So senior year was COVID for me, not the best senior year college experience, but it did give me the opportunity to, you know, spend a lot of time at home, on on YouTube, learning about natural farming and no till, and back to Eden style of gardening. And, you know, I basically, kind of took all that stuff and decided I wanted to start hemp farm, cannabis farm. But, you know, hemp licenses are way cheaper than marijuana licenses, and you know, I had the land to do that, and it's the same skills across the board. So I was, you know, really kind of looking forward to developing those skills in wanting to start a hemp farm in 2020, 2021, we kind of realized the CBD market was already pretty flooded. Prices for biomass were super low, so we didn't necessarily see that as a super duper viable option for a business long term, even short term. And we weren't really trying to grow biomass. We were trying to start a brand and build a brand, because we saw more value in that, and we kind of ourselves back in, say, 2019, ish, 2020, really just discovered CBG, and we decided to buy some flour online to try it out. So we tried it, and I. You know, we've we felt it. We felt the difference between the CBG and CBD or THC. I think it's, it's definitely non intoxicating, like CBD, but I do think it's a little bit more psychoactive. So we, we kind of felt that difference, and we knew that, you know, we hadn't heard about it, as you know, long time cannabis users. I mean, I heard about in school, but I never, you know, consumed a product, right? So being able to have that experience and it being unique to us, we felt that it would be unique to consumers as well. So that's kind of why we wanted to drive the brand in a CBG, forward manner. Of course, being a hemp brand, we do have some other products, nighttime products and CBD only products, you know, we really try to have a little bit of everything. But, you know, we've got CBG plastered all over our banners and everything. So when we're out at events, really, it's, it's a lot of educating consumers as to what some of these miners are and how they're different but still beneficial, and maybe different ways or similar ways. Sure, it's really great, yeah.

So we have an audience of cultivators here, and I'd like to start with that information and then move it into more of the cultivation and processing side. We've had a few strains that tested for CBG that we didn't know tested for CBG. And it's interesting to look at which ones, those were out of our genetic library, because they were some of the most unique ones and some of the most unique lineage. Our ice cream Wolf Man has a really unique lineage. So I'm wondering, Well, like I said, let's actually start from the beginning. You described that difference in consuming the CBG, what are the effects like for you personally? And then dovetail that into, what are the effects medicinally that we know from studies and things of that

nature? Sure, yeah. So, you know, obviously we can dive into the what I know at least about the genetics and cultivating it and stuff like that too. But in regards to the consumption side and kind of the some like mantras that we've come up with. We like to say that, you know CBG, a lot of people know CBD. So we normally say CBG is similar to CBD in that it's another non intoxicating cannabinoid. But we prefer CBG for daytime use. We like to say it has more of an aware, uplifting focus type effect. So sometimes, you know, we'll say it's like the sativa of hemp. And I do find that it has more of like a mood, energy and cognitive boosting component to it. So that's why I personally prefer it for daytime use. Personally, I'll normally mix some of our CBG flour with some of my type one flour, and that's, you know, if not hash rosin. That's what I'm consuming during the daytime. From you know, a medicinal standpoint, I guess, just like, based on some some research that's out there and some client feedback. Most people use it for similar things to CBD being pain and inflammation management and stress and anxiety management. But again, we prefer it during the daytime because of its kind of uplifting components. There is a bit of research, and we have heard from some of our customers that it's a little better potentially for things like gi inflammation, which is, is really great. I mean, I had one customer that told me knows the only thing that helped his IBS, which is, like, incredible. And also for like, neurological inflammation, you know, has the potential to be better than than some things like CBD. And I think that comes down to the molecular structure of CDG, and, you know, it has a lot, uh, longer, more malleable carbon chains. So I think, you know, it can take more confirmations than some of the other cannabinoids. And I think that maybe is part of the reason why it can have so many different potential user uses in our bodies, and actually have the ability, you know, from my understanding, at least, I think, to interact directly with both CD one and CD two, which is pretty cool.

That's really interesting. It makes you think, you know, you see these large studies on cannabis, and like you said, there's so many promising studies for such a wide variety of of ailments. But if you think like, Okay, here's this ancillary cannabinoid that not every strain produces, we've been selecting for for other things, but some do produce this one, maybe, that's maybe that explains some of the differences in those studies, right? And why you see such promise in some I remember reading one. I actually pulled it up here on CBG, against brain cancer, slowing the growth of tumors. And this is a study from 2021 NCBI, yeah, really interesting. CBG, a potential therapeutic agent in novel combined therapy for Leo blastoma, which is just. I'm sure I'm pronouncing that wrong. Which is brain cancer. So it's, it's interesting, maybe that's the secret to unlocking a lot of the medicinal aspects. Is like, Okay, well, which are the active compounds that really affect what we're going after, and then finding the proper cultivar, really, or finding the proper ratio of application of those ancillary cannabinoids,

definitely. I mean, I think that personalized medicine is the future of cannabis, but we really need a better understanding of how some of these things are really working biochemically before we can really, really specifically dial in on said ratios. I mean, they're still discovering compounds that you know, aren't even tested for that, that have incredible potential in how cannabis affects us when we consume it. Exactly So, like, it's very unknown, and it's a very complicated medicine, shall we, shall we say for sure, because of its all unique compounds. But like, you're kind of getting at, I think it's some of those unique compounds that really play a role in having such medicinal potential, which is why I'll always be a believer in full spec. And once we learn how some of these miners really work in our bodies and the potential pathways that they can take, then if somebody does come with an ailment, then you know, you'll say, Okay, well, we need this cannabinoid to block this thing from happening. Well, then we need this cannabinoid to come in and activate this other thing so that we can, like, you know, prevent and cure at the same time, or whatever. You know, there's just, there's so much potential to it, and it really is, you know, exciting for for me and hopefully for for other people in the industry, and I hope that, you know, people who are just like, I don't think there's really any recreational consumers. Maybe by anybody who would consider themselves a recreational consumer, I would encourage them hanging around with some of these miners more, because, I mean shopping for HC alone, I don't think is, is the move, and I think that's going to change in the future, especially when people have more of an understanding. And I like to think about all these miners, just kind of as, like tools in your toolbox. So when you're trying to feel a certain way, like when I'm trying to feel a little high, but also motivated and energized and focused, maybe I want to smoke like 75% CBG, and then like 25% of like a, you know, very specific like tropical or piney, like THC strain type one strain, you know? Yeah,

perfect little blend. That's where it's at. The blends are where it's at. But talk to me about those lineages that you're growing. I would love to hear, first of all, which strains are producing this type of stuff, and how they grow differently, if at

all. Oh, man, it all grows differently. We've been really trying to find good breeders to work with who have some, like, more consistent lines, because it's a little frustrating. You know, when you're we do farm outside, and we're our plants are definitely in a tough environment, and we like to push them hard. But it's definitely a little frustrating when you've got one plant right next to another, and one goes to total mold or whatever, and the other one is like, totally fine. So we're putting a lot of energy this year into Pheno hunting. We're running less plants, so we have clones of almost everything. So hopefully we can keep a lot of the winners around and scale those up in the future. But as far as genetic lineages and stuff like that, the CBG is a pretty unique one, because it's really recessive. And I'm definitely no expert on the the lineages of it, but, um, Oregon, CBD, company was probably one of the first, if not the first, big company to come out with CBG only strain, um, the white CBG, and that's still one of the most popular CDG strains, the white, according to their website, the CDG is actually produced by, like a defective, I think is the word they use, THC, a synthase gene. So they did like some crazy hunting apparently, the white is, or used to be, a type one variety. And you know, they said, Oh, we found the needle in the haystack. Took so many years, and then, you know, we crossed that with itself, and did so much hunting to get it stable. So I think that's where probably some of the most stable, true CBG genetics are. And I've heard from some other breeders that I've talked to that some of the other CBG genetics that are on the market currently, because there's not many, are just kind of like, you know, F twos or s twos of of the white that people have hunted and found cool females of and done some breeding work with. But I do also know that I don't know exactly where or when it was found, but there was an Italian fiber strain that actually was found to be predominantly CBG, and that is kind of the other, I think, one of, if not the other, main genetic lineages that's used in a lot of these. CDG genetics, wow. Because it's so recessive, you either have to find the one in a million within the variety that's CBG dominant, or you have to, you know, have another CDG plant, like you can't really cross CBG with THC, and expect to get, you know, a CBG dominant plant. It's, you know, it's very recessive when breeding. That

is fascinating. I know all about the white. There were two strains back in the day, the black and the white and the black. I don't know if they were related, but I remember in Northern California, both of these strains. I used to tell stories about the guy who really started me into growing and grow cast and everything, was my Uncle Jack, Uncle Jack, who used to smoke the black and and then there was also the white. And it's interesting, because you're right, it's like, it's like a classic strain that that must have just had a phenotype that kicks out this. CBG, so it's, it seems like, because it's so recessive, it's more like winning the lottery than it is like, Hey, you have to that's what we were wondering about. The ones that popped from our line. We were wondering, are we going to see more of that, or is this just, does this one phenotype just kind of a one off? It seems like usually it's the latter,

right? I'd say it's a one off. Unless you're hunting and selecting for that, you're probably not going to see it around more.

Yeah, this is very interesting. How is growing these strains? Not so much like the fiber varieties, but these ones, like the white from Oregon seed Co. Do you find that they feed basically the same?

Sure, so it's our first year growing the white. I honestly, everybody grows the white. So in trying to, you know, develop, like, a unique brand, I like, didn't want to grow the white for a while, but, you know, I think they are stable genetics, and there probably are some winners in there. So I finally decided this year, okay, let's try the white out. We've tried, like a lot of other all that we could find, basically from companies that looked legit on the market. And we've even tried stuff that, you know was sold to us as CBG, but wasn't truly, at least fully dominantly CBG, in terms of growing it. It's, I'd say, very similar to growing lots of other cannabis, you know, looks the same. It should good. Hemp varieties should look like and smell like, and feel like and smoke like, you know, basically any any other cannabis, that's right, you know, if you can have that's kind of a test that we like to play with ourselves and customers sometimes like the jar test, you know, is it hemp or is it weed? And that's a fun one. But in terms of growing it, it finishes earlier, generally. So if people don't know, CBG sometimes is referred to as the mother cannabinoid. So all cannabis plants actually make CDG as a precursor to all the other ones, even THC. Plants make CDG and then turn it into THC. So I think that inherently makes it the CDG dominant varieties want to finish early. So those are normally our earliest finishing varieties. And it's also very, very low. THC, like we have no problems ever with pre harvest compliance testing. It's under point three total at finish. From that regard, it's really great to grow. I feel like we've had maybe a little bit more powdery mildew issues with some CBG varieties than CBD. But as I was kind of saying before, it's like growing any other cannabis, you know, you can find a winning fino, sure, and try to run that out that's going to be bulletproof in your location. And who knows, maybe my bulletproof winning fino is, is not yours out there in Colorado or whatever in the desert or whatever, you know? Oh,

exactly. You got to find what works in that environment, right? And I know a lot of hemp farmers run into that problem when you breed out THC and and when they're trying to breed out all these compounds that do help, especially with pests. So you want to keep those terpenes around you just don't want to pop hot. It's it's an interesting breeding

goal, yeah. And hopefully in the future, the CBG Terps will start to come back a little bit more. Maybe it's just like a genetic thing and how the CBG is made that I don't know. The plant can't make as many Terps or whatever, but it seems like our CBG varieties are always like, significantly lower in Terps than our CBD varieties. I mean, most of them, I think, test like, under 1% or around 1% and we've had some CBD varieties that have tested like over three so,

you know. And I wonder what that is. I don't know if it's just because there's been so many less breeders working those varieties than the other. I don't know why that's if there's a scientific reason that the production of those two things are linked. But based on what I know about the production of those two things, you'd think you'd still be able to find strains that were just as terpy like you said. Maybe it's just a matter of breeding more, but you're doing it, man, like you are the one doing that. I see a lot of product that's on hemp shelves that is not up to par, that is not smokeable. There is work to be done there, you know? And then I see some people doing it really well, and I'm like, God bless. This is exactly what we need. So it sounds like that's, that's what you're doing? Yeah,

we definitely try, you know, I treat our hemp just like I would treat any other cannabis, you know, that would be growing. So we do a lot of natural farming, poly culture. We do a lot of KNF and making our own fertilizers and ferments and stuff like that. So we try to keep it full circle. And yeah, we do the ice water extraction too, so we can maybe get into that, but we're more or less vertical, and we try and keep everything as as full circle and regenerative as we can

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we'll see you there. You there. I

know this next question is going to have more nuance, because, like you said, these varieties pretty much grow the same, but then when you go to process them, they don't process the same. Do they? Sean,

no, they, they definitely do not. What does that look like

when you suck out the THC and the and a lot of the, I don't know, resinousness. You tell me what is so challenging about washing CBD and CBG cultivars?

I think, I mean, from a Hashim perspective, you'd say, well, the trichomes probably are different. So I'd have to agree there that the trichomes probably are different. It's definitely frustrating at times, for sure, because, you know, we are indefinitely devoted to the solvent list. That's kind of what our whole brand is, is built around. And like I said, we're vertical for it, so we do everything in house, and I've learned so much. Oh, my God. But watching CBD is it's a little bit torturous. I mean, we do everything from fresh frozen too, because that's just like what fits into our system, and I think how to make the highest quality products. But, I mean, we're it's like L on average, 1% one percenters, from fresh frozen to Bubble Hash, not even like rosin. And I think that has to do with the massiveness of the trichomes, like, just like maybe head size and just like the density of what's in the heads. I've been thinking about that a lot recently, because, I mean, I've had full mason jars of one type of hash, and maybe one will weigh like 100 grams, and maybe one will weigh like 300 grams. It's like that's the same volume. Now, maybe it's even the same micron, or a similar micron, but it's totally different density. So that makes me think it has to do something with like the density of what's actually being held in the Trichome heads, and then, from a yield perspective, also, just like how the trichomes are shaped, a lot of the CBD is really greasy, trying to get better, a better eye for glove tests in the field, and I might break out some jars and Try to do some jar tests on some phenos that look like maybe keepers, but a lot of the CBD is really greasy and will just like melt on your fingers. So I think that's an issue when it comes to making the hash the CBG actually, Lord God bless because, you know, we are the CBG. Gurus, the CBG actually washes a little better than, uh, than CBD. Oh, really. I think my, my record wash has been over 2% so, I mean, that's, that's 100% better still, you know, still not a five or 6% or, like, a good yielding type one variety. But I think that there's potential in breeding, and I know that there are breeders trying to rework or work in some like type one hashers and make them hemp strains, maybe hoping that some of the genetics that make that strain a hash strain will actually cross over, even though it'll be, you know, hemp dominant. So I'm excited for that. And I think that the future is like, maybe in like, a little bit more in depth genetic research and figuring out why these hashers are hashers, and seeing if any of those genes are in the hemp. I mean, I know there's some people out there who take some really cool trichome photos, so it'd be cool to have some real close comparisons of of those as well.

That is interesting, that there's such a difference between CBD and CBG to begin with, and the numbers you're working with, man that is low. That is a labor of love. I imagine it solves a lot of the issues, though. Like, I imagine, let's say you're, you're hunting through a bunch of these CBG strains, and on average, they're not turning out as turpy as some of the type one strains you're used to, well, concentrating in duraz. And I imagine fixes that, right? Like, I bet the product at the end is beautiful now, uh,

yes, and no, most of the hemp extract we actually keep as bubble and that's what we use to make a majority of our edible products, like our tinctures and stuff like that are just infused with Bubble Hash. I mean, one fluid ounce, one bottle, has got like, over two grams of hash infused into it, and I'm trying pressing some of the CDG out, not with much success, having devoted too much time, because we do just kind of use the bubble. And even as bubble, most of the hemp extract, the CBG is close to being retailable, but otherwise, you know, our CBD bubble normally comes in over 1% so it's not really sellable as a end product by a sell and any rosin hot? Yeah, of course, yeah. It gets concentrated. You know, everything gets concentrated. I didn't think about that, yeah. And then I've made rosin, you know, and for r, d purposes, or whatever, gotten some of that tested. And, I mean, that came back, I think around two and a half percent,

dude, that's got to be nice, though, I know you can't. It sucks, man. That makes me so angry that you're not allowed to just sell that, because 2.5 is, come on, let's be honest. That's super mild. And that's probably a really good experience, I imagine, super

medicinal, yeah, and I mean to mix it again with, like, some type one stuff just increases the medicinal potential. So, like I kind of said before, I think that's the future, and it's it's great stuff, but from a product standpoint, unfortunately, you know, with our current licensing, it's not like necessarily retail able, where maybe trying to figure that out be cool to get into some dispensaries or whatever, but I also have aspirations in the future of getting more into the recreational cannabis market. So yeah, I think a lot of these miners have a lot of potential in the future. Yeah. So tell

me about your strategy washing them. Does that differ at all. I know you're still like learning and experimenting, but have you noticed any difference in strategy, or do you treat it the same, and you're just looking for one that that doesn't

yield, like crap, it's a little strain dependent. Maybe, maybe I'll do some, some test washes or whatever. But like, you know any, anybody who's out there, who's a who's a in a facility working nose, like a lot of this is more or less food grade, you know, I don't absolutely run it at, like, super low speed for my first wash to, like, super gentle, you know, I crank it up a little bit. Maybe I'll wash it a little bit more intensely, especially because it seems like some of these heads are maybe a little bit harder to break off. Oh, really, so I'll wash it a little bit more intensely. And I'm, I mean, I'm normally doing pretty maxed out loads, so that also just kind of normally have to wash it a little bit more intensely. And because it's food grade, again, I'm just really trying to get the maximum yield out of this stuff. Obviously, it's a it's a one percenter to begin with, so really trying to juice it for for what I can without spending, you know, six hours on a wash. We do have an osprey, so we're running you. Know, 18 to 20 kilos at once, it is fresh frozen. Who knows, maybe I would have a little bit more success washing like really nice dry material. But the dry material washes I've done have not been very promising at all, either, and we don't really have the drying space to harvest everything and dry it, so fresh frozen works for us. I'm excited in to get more into, you know, hunting, because I think that plays a pretty critical role, even sometimes with type one chains that you're trying to hunt for hashers. So I think that could play more of a role than some people, even me personally, have thought in the past, you know, we'll just have a row of 30 plants, all from seeds, so all different phenos, because that's what hemp growers normally do. And, you know, wash the whole row together. So in my hunting prospects this year, I've got some phenos I have my eye on, and think I might have to, you know, break out the jar and just see if there's any real noticeable differences or not. Hell

yeah. Pheno hunting is the best part. It sounds like you've got your your cultivation systems kind of locked down. What's your favorite part of your poly culture that you have going on? Like, what? What do you think makes your farm special

this year. It's crazy special because it's our it's our fourth year farming outdoors, and we, since year one, has been USDA certified organic farm, because we can do that because we're hemp, and hemp is federally legal, so it's just a crop like corn or anything else, and being certified organic, at least, our certification agency says that even though we're no till and poly culture, and, you know, the best of the best or whatever, we still have to rotate. So we're allowed to only grow 10th or the same of any other crop in the same space for three years in a row. So this is our fourth year again. So it's our first rotational year in our main field. We've got 20 rows. So this year, 10 of those rows actually are produce. We've got rows of tomatoes and peppers and puff flowers in between every single row of tent this year. So it really has a unique vibe. This year you're gonna

create some cross you're gonna create some spicy breeds. Some of those peppers are gonna pollinate.

Dude. People always ask at the market. We're like, Yeah, we grow hemp too. They're like, or like, we have our hemp banner up and we have like, veggies on the tables. Or like, are those veggies infused? Like, I was just like, laughing myself. I'm like, It's infused with the vibes of it,

is this cucumber gonna get me high? It's like, no, it's just No,

it'll taste good, though. And like, in terms of something that I would give maybe as like a tip or whatever, some I'm excited about somewhere pushing harder on on the farm this year than we did last year, is actually grow sweet potatoes underneath all the hemp. Why do you do that? Well, first and foremost, I think there's a lot of sunlight, energy and ground space that's wasted during the first, you know, two or three months of cultivation when the plants are still tiny. So during that time, I feel like you got to have some sort of cover crop, or ground cover or something, or else, you know, the weeds just want to grow back. So our spring cover crop does take care of a lot of a lot of that. But then we form mounds of wood chips on either side of the hemp rose all the way down. And then we plant the sweet potato slips right into the mounds of wood chips, and then they they don't grow like regular potatoes, they grow like more of a vining crop. So they act as a really, really great ground cover. And by this time of the season, the hole underneath, in between all the hemp plants is totally covered and sweet potato vines and leaves, so there's really no sunlight getting down to the soil, so it shades the soil provides temperature management, moisture management. We're growing literally hundreds of pounds of more food in the same space. And yeah, it's great for the plants and it's great for the polyculture vibe. Yeah,

that's really cool, man. It's like the three sisters style, almost, uh,

not quite, because we don't want it growing up the hemp, right? We make sure they don't grow on the hemp because, you know, that could lead to some, uh, but it fits well flow management issues. But they definitely cover the ground really well. And that was, that was the main idea. I mean, there's some other crops that I've experimented with to try and dial in, like, my cover cropping and, like, just getting a good ground cover throughout the Grow season. And we're kind of messing around with strawberries that one seems to be a little bit tougher though. We kind of let some of our strawberry beds get a little bit crazy with the weeds this year, and then in the past, we've used a lot of dye. Con radish, and those still are growing like crazy around the field. That's an amazing cover crop. I recommend it to everybody. It's also called tillage radish. I've grown some radishes that are, like, as big as my upper leg, if not bigger, and they just they penetrate super deeply into into the ground. Feed the worms and the mycelium all through the winter. But the problem with the daikons is when they flower, all the flowers go like up into the cannabis trellis, and all the little white flowers are fragile, so when the flowers start to fall off, all the nug gets covered in little white flowers. And it's a little bit annoying and hard to manage to go and stomp a bunch of radishes in in every single row, if you really go crazy with them. So I think the radish makes a really, really good fall cover crop. I might even seed some right now, although we've got some growing wild still, because we just let it go to seed. But the potatoes, man, that's like a great food crop. I mean, they store for like, a year, and you could just, you know, make slips from the ones you grew last year. And it's amazing ground cover. And it also allows us to add wood chip, you know, to the hemp rose on a we'll see if we continue with it, but basically, yearly basis, which, like also is doing something else in the same process, like we're not just having to wheel barrel or tractor buckets of wood chips on top of the rows to top dress or whatever. We grow the potatoes in them for a year, and then by the end of the year, it's crazy. There's so much life and stuff going on up in the potatoes. The chips like half broken down already. So after we harvest the potatoes right now, just kind of like, pitchfork them out the beds, you know, wow. And then we rake the mounds over into the middle of the beds, and, you know, sits for the winter. Basically, we do a spring cover crop and then plant it out again.

That is super cool. Man, that's a real poly culture you got going on there. What about the KNF stuff? Do you do, like Jadam fertilizers or like, ferments?

Yeah. So the most cool thing that we do in the natural farming regard, we do KNF maintenance spray. So that's like, we make all those ingredients, and we foliar that on a weekly basis, in combination, normally with some stuff to help a little bit more with IPM. But I think the coolest thing that we do in the natural farming regard is actually in the Jadam realm of things. We again do the ice water extraction here in house. So when I'm done making the hash, I basically just have an IBC tote down by the barn, and I take all my washed nug and I fill up the IBC tote, and then, you know, top it off with some water. And I call that nug sauce, but in Jadam terms, that's Jadam liquid fertilizer made with cannabis flower. And that nug sauce is what we use to feed our plants, you know, this time of the season. And that really makes our system, in my mind, very fully circular, because the only thing I'm harvesting out of the field is besides some smokeable, more or less the the heads of the trichomes. That's really

cool. Man, I think that you've got a real kind of closed input system going on there. At least borderline you're growing at scale. That's got to be amazing. What do you find the hardest part is to grow at scale? I'm sure it's a small team working that farm.

Yeah, there's just a couple of us with with some helpers. So we've been kind of figuring out the the scale issue, especially in regards to, you know, trying to build a brand simultaneously. Because I think that's the mistake a lot of people may have made in the hemp theme, is just trying to wholesale it, or say, Okay, I'll grow 2000 plants, or whatever. So we've been trying to kind of grow as as we need to. And the hash has helped out with that too, because it, you know, helps a lot with with the shelf life of these products. I mean, honestly, sometimes the veggies are harder to grow than than the cannabis, and just kind of back the Pheno hunting and working with good breeders and stuff like that. I think that's just so key. I mean, we do, like I said, treat it like any other cannabis. So we're, you know, everything is on trellis, everything is pruned. And this time of the year, we're spending a lot of our time be foaling, because we do everything for fresh frozen so all the fan leaves are gonna have to get fold eventually, and we have our pre harvest compliance testing next week, so we should be starting to harvest within the next couple of weeks here. So again, ready in that regard? Yeah, I mean, I don't know nothing's super hard to grow. So you have the rice system, but I think the veg has been definitely a challenge. For sure, it requires more maintenance than the cannabis. You know, the cannabis, it's like growing trees. You just trees that grow every year, you know? You just plant it, and then you harvest at the end of the year. If you're growing a bunch of tomatoes, not only do you have to prune and trellis them every week, but you. Also have to harvest them twice a week, and, you know, the rain will make half your crop explode overnight, or whatever, you know, so, oh my god. It's a fun, interesting game that we're playing here with the polyculture. But I think we're, we're figuring it out, and it's, it's really cool working. I don't know. I think definitely more cannabis farms should grow sweet potatoes under their cannabis, at least, if they're not going to grow some, some pretty flowers for the pollinators, and maybe even some some other food crops, because that's how nature intended it. You know, everything to be grown together. And it really does not only look beautiful, but you can, you can tell, with all the insects and everything that's around, it's, it's a good system, for sure. So Well,

other than keeping a poly culture as the backbone of your farm, what other advice do you have? Maybe somebody in a in a nearby state or a similar state wants to get into the hemp game or the ancillary cannabinoid game. What advice would you have for them from a farming standpoint and or a business standpoint? I

mean, from a business standpoint, try to be unique. You know, there's a lot of people out there doing hemp, so that's probably would be my biggest tip, and just get out there and tell the people about what you're doing. And then, from a farming standpoint, I'd say, try not to think about it like corn. Try to think about it like cannabis and like a really high value crop that has a lot of potential, and hopefully you have some experience growing some sort of cannabis, and it is very, very similar, you know, a lot of things that I kind of already said over the past conversation, just the importance of Pheno hunting and working with good breeders who you have confidence in that are real and actually grow out their work. All the things that are applicable to growing high quality cannabis are applicable to growing high quality hemp, and don't overdo it. I don't think that the name of the game these days is biomass. I mean, it's, I don't even try. It's impossible for me to compete with some of these 100 plus acre farms that are just mowing their trees down every year, you know, and milling it all up or whatever. And that's what gets used in all these lotions, or, we know, whatever CBD dog treats, you know, sure. So, like, we're not doing that. And I, I think that that that market kind of is, is tapped. So, you know, just just be unique. And a lot of the other things we talked about too, with some of these other miners starting to come onto the market, I think that is going to be huge in the future. And hopefully a lot of these bigger marijuana companies are going to realize the value in what a lot of us are doing as hemp farmers. And maybe, you know, if not getting our own licenses, which some of us want to do, some of us don't want to do, maybe we can at least work with some of these other companies and get some legit contracts, because, I mean, there's tremendous value in what we're doing, and it definitely is a valuable crop and should be seen that way. And think there's a lot of potential with the miners to make some really beneficial products. And I think some companies are starting to realize that. So hopefully they'll work with, you know, local regenerative farmers, and, you know, give the hemp farmers cred when it comes to making those products and selling those products. And I think that that could be a big part of the future for the hemp industry. Maybe is, is really getting some more into the rec market and some more mixed ratio product lines out there, especially as the breeding work continues, and, you know, we get to play with some varying strains and stuff like that. I think the future is exciting for sure. Oh,

I have to ask that before we wrap the show here, do you are you interested in the thc v stuff? Are you currently running anything that focuses on thc v?

I got, I have two very unique veren trains. One of them was sold to us as a as a one to one CBD, CBD V and we grew it out last year, and it was not but I, friend of mine is doing his PhD, kind of, on cannabis genetics here locally, and I gave him, like, some cuts and some seeds, and he hunted through it and found one that is truly one to one. And then he selfed it and hunted through those seeds. And he thought all those seeds were going to be one to one, but they're not, because Baron is also like, super recessive, wow. But he found one of the s ones that he made that is one to one, and gifted that back to us. So we have those genetics. We only have a couple plants this year because we got a little bit late, but I'm hoping to get maybe some smokeable flower like for sale on the website, and maybe do a really small test wash. And then the Oregon Seed Company. Me, they have a pretty unique offering of Vern genetics. So the same friend who's very interested in the Veran got some of their double Durbin the seeds, and hunted through those and found a cut that, you know, seems to grow pretty well. So got some access to that too. So definitely excited to be working with verin. It's it's different, for sure, interesting,

and coming out of the Durban line, that's super interesting. Yeah, my

friend's theory is that the really old school Durban, no, I hope I'm not butchering it or whatever, but the really old school Durban had THC, V in it, like maybe an even significant percentage. But verin is just so incredibly recessive that when you go and cross it with anything, potentially even itself, you're just going to breed that out. So you know, all these Durban crosses don't have the effects of Durban, because it's not the German it doesn't have that variant in there. It was just, it was just bred out. So we'll see, you know, if any of this stuff really has any potential, and if we can kind of throw any other genetics in the lines and make some cool stuff. But I definitely, you know, as a guy who focuses on minors, I'm really excited to see the future of reading with with some of these things, and see how crazy we can get with some mixed ratio strains, and see what the Veron does. Nobody even like, knows about there. And people ask me, like, so like, what does CBD V even do? And I'm like, I don't really, I mean, I don't really know it's magic. I mean, they sell thc v as an appetite suppressant or whatever. But I think that's just some marketing kind of Damn, you know, nobody knows what it really does. We gotta, we gotta get it in, in the form of the plant too, because I think that is so essential. I mean, when some of this research is done with like isolate, like synthetically made, you know, cannabinoids or psilocybin or whatever, naturally existing compound, you're going to test it, you know, be doing tests on if you make it synthetically, I think that, like, the results are just going to be totally different. So it'll be interesting to have some genetics that can accumulate some verin and bro. I mean, who knows if you could have some THC, V hash? It doesn't necessarily look like a hash here. It looks pretty greasy. But for the Terps and for the experimental sake, I'm probably gonna have to try to get at least a small load in there. You know,

absolutely, man, we are definitely here for it and interested in in what you're doing. So I love the ancillary cannabinoid talk, and I would love to get my hands on some of that product maybe the next time I make it out east. I know Connecticut is a market where we do get quite a bit of love, and I'd love to, you know, pop over and try some of that Bubble Hash, or get you some of our type one seeds or something. That would be fun. Yeah,

definitely always, always love adding seeds to the bank, and always love testing things here in our system, in our environment, here in Connecticut, like I said, it's a tough environment, for sure, so it's fun to put the plants to the test, and definitely would be happy to have you. I mean, now is the time to come visit if you're ever going to do a farm, as I'd say, things aren't as popping off during the winter time, still beautiful place to chill and hang out. So if you're in the area, it's also cool because we're, you know, we're about two hours from Boston and New York City, so it's a pretty nice centralized location. So if you're ever around there too, maybe we can link up.

I've been overdue for Boston for so long, though, that would be awesome. Maybe

we can have some sort of event collab, or something, you know, have to keep that in mind. Oh, man, I'd like to get some things going on the farm in the future. So, you know,

I'm all about that at growcast. We, we would love to do that. No, Boston's been overdue for a long time. Maybe a trip in 2025 out east again. Yeah,

we were at necan Boston last year. I actually spoken that was, that was a pretty fun conference. That's like, winter time. But yeah, definitely. I'm sure the East Coast would love to have you out here.

Oh, man, I miss it. Boy do I miss it. Well, Sean, listen, let's get let's get your website out there. Where can people find you and all of your awesome work?

Sure. So all of our hemp products are available on our website, which is the CBG gurus.com and we also have got a newsletter on our website that we send out monthly. So if you sign up for that, we normally, you know, write some blogs, do some farm updates, and that also has an event schedule about where we're going to be vending. We do a decent amount of vending. Vending season is kind of starting to slow down a little bit, but any events that we will be at, besides our local farmers markets, which are also on there, will be included in that. And then if you really want to follow along, we use Instagram a lot. Normally, things get cross post to Facebook, but the Instagram is also the CBG gurus do. And yeah, definitely check it out. We got a lot of cool stuff going on on the farm right now, and as we push through harvest over the next few months,

once again, the CBG gurus.com Did I get that right? Yep, the CBG gurus.com go and check them out. Everybody give them a follow on Instagram. And if you grab something or message them, make sure to tell them that grow cast sent you over there. Yeah,

and we actually set up a discount code broadcast one five for anybody who wants to try out any of our products off the website. Use that at checkout, and that'll get you a nice little discount of our product. That's

nice. You to do that, man. Thank you. Go ahead and use that promo code, folks, just for you, just for listening. And that's all for now. Thank you so much for tuning into this episode. We'll be back at you so shortly with another one that's all for today, though. This is Sean from the CBG gurus and Jordan River signing off, wishing you an extraordinary day. Be safe out there, everybody, and grow smarter. That's our show. Thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you to CBG guru. Stay tuned for some more episodes coming up here soon. Grow cast podcast.com, that's where you can find all the stuff this Saturday is the ok. Call its natural farming immersive. At the time of this recording, there's two spots left. Come on down for this class in Tulsa. It's going to be amazing. Go to grow. Cast podcast.com/classes, grab your tickets today before we wrap it up. Shout out to rooted leaf nutrients. Rooted leaf.com, code, grow cast for 20% off the nutrients you don't need to pH. They're loaded with carbon. They're going to do amazing things for your garden. It's like jet fuel and dank sauce to pour on your plants. Roots. I just did a run with pro mix and rooted leaf. It's one of the best runs I've ever done. Very excited about how that turned out. I know you guys love the episodes with Nick. He'll be back on soon. But if you're ready to try the best nutrients in the game, rootedleaf.com use code, grow, cast, don't pH ever again. Load your soil or your medium with that carbon and see the results of the magical rooted leaf. Code, grow, cast, 20% off. Thank you to rooted leaf. Okay, everybody, that's it for today. I'm running around. My travel schedule is almost done, and then I'll be relaxing through the holidays and gearing up for a big 2025 thank you for your support. Thank you for your listens. Thank you to the members. I'll see you guys around. Bye, bye. You

are the veggies infused. I.