Virtual Hangout #40
7:52PM Jan 21, 2021
We're going after that 89 million. Somehow I don't think they're my demographic.
so a few little things before we get going. I have a presentation with a bunch of academic scientists, again today at three o'clock. So I'm going to have to cut this, I'll probably go half hour 45 minutes, mostly q&a offerings. Today, and then with Andy and, you know, the incredibly gifted talent pool view. What we finished really with last week was a half hour of marvelous offerings from you all. Where you can continue to talk and do your thing, it's great. But I need to do a few things to get ready for my silly and I did three so I tried to do my best with scheduling but sometimes when all these other people don't have another option it's either not doing this or shortening of from iron so thank you for that. Sharon Salzberg we released. We haven't released it yet I did a recording with her. On Sunday, a lot of it, a lot of it was on this stuff, politics, social activism spiritual bypassing everything we're talking about here. I just need to do a little bit of editing with with Andy and we're going to try to release that tomorrow, because it's such a timely conversation with her. For those of you who are nightclub members we have the community shares thing tomorrow. This is why we bring on really gifted members and they have a platform to share their stuff. First one with Altera was awesome too I think Katie, right, Katie is doing something she's super cool movie night on Saturday, what's the movie this weekend.
The science of sleep.
Oh yeah, that's a good one. That's a good French film I think, Yeah, I've seen it a couple times it's quite good. What else yeah we're gonna start doing a guided meditation thing maybe Monday night, so that'll be a new offering around that. And for those of you who may be new to this event, Thursday, that's what we do here we started it almost 40 some weeks ago with the virus, and no idea be going this long but we're just going to keep going as long as people kind of show up. So usually what I do is, is a very short presentation. Last week was unusual I read for almost an hour talking about, you know, the great elephant in the room. And so this week my, my little riff is going to be very brief and it's mostly going to be some cool questions came in. I'm going to respond to those there were a bunch of hands raised from last week that we didn't get to, and then like I mentioned, I'm just gonna excuse myself and then you guys can just continue without me. Yay. So, I'm in a great space today. Yesterday was like this massive release right it's like, oh my gosh, even even like until Wednesday, Tuesday night I was still like, What can this guy do within 24 hours it's like I was still edgy and so yesterday was I was just giddy. I don't know if you could tell, with all the commentators to the news people to me they just everybody just seems so much lighter, it seemed like just years of wrinkles had been removed off these people. I don't know how, how some of the. These folks like Rachel Maddow they I mean they How can they can live in this kind of toxic environment, really not easy so I thought it was awesome lots of tears for me yesterday. I thought Amanda Gorman just knocked it out of the park like Birth of a superstar. I mean, what an amazing young poet laureate. And I actually remember they were showing some stuff about her later. And their tweet came in from Hillary Clinton saying, you know, Amanda, for President 2036, that you know, she was so hot that she should run for politics. And my first response was no no don't waste your genius right. Somebody's joking, you know don't don't just think like the ultimate summit is being, you know, the kind of politician so I just chuckled at that I was like no no no don't steal or in the realm of politics let her radiance shine in the world of literature. And so one thing that I am doing now a little bit more with with my stuff and we'll do this for one minute together, is that it's very easy to take what we do, or maybe I'm speaking about myself. Spirituality discussions about meditation, philosophy, these sort of academic spiritual things it's very easy to to get a little bit sterile antiseptic with this spiritual bypassing and so what I'm doing more and more now with somewhat longer running events like this is for 30 seconds for a minute at the beginning of each presentation. Just one minute of silent Tong Len where, where we just remind ourselves of why we're doing this. Yes, for ourselves for sure but fundamentally for others, really. And so to keep what we're doing here from becoming too precious to spiritual. It's good to you know put our faces on the dirt so to speak a little bit. And so with every in breath if you haven't done this incredible beautiful practice of tone land with every in breath to every pore of your body. You as a representative of the cosmos, breathe in all the anxiety. I mean, you know, I thought one of the most touching powerful things this week was the ceremony that Biden did with Harrison was Monday night. Tuesday night I can't remember now. You know where they acknowledged 400,000 people, more than World War Two. Last, due to the virus. I thought that was really powerful. And so we can bring them in, we can bring everything else that's happening, and then radiate shine out on your outbreath through every pore of your body. Light love healing energies in the light so let's do this together for just a minute to remind ourselves what this stuff is all about. It's not about feeling good. Unless you're talking about basic goodness, it's about getting real getting real means staying in touch with what's happening. So let's do this together for a minute. Okay.
There we go.
I'm always reminded of what Rumi. One of my favorite poets once said he said silence is the language of God. All else is poor translation. That's pretty good. It's amazing what can be communicated in silence. So one of the things the only thing I really wanted to talk about today again because I want to spend most of the time answering the questions really great questions came in, and then responding a little bit to you is, you know, there's a lot of questions I'm getting which which are great questions, it's actually what I asked Sharon as well. I asked her point blank, I said how, how can we reach the unreachable I mean how can we make contact communicate and relate to others, you know, from radically different points of view. And so one of the ways we do that of course is working with ourselves, and listening to ourselves and making communication and contact with our own spectrum of being and realizing that you know every. Really, human being on this planet shares a very similar spectrum of mind and being in that. It's really levels of degree. So for instance, an extreme example would be mental illness mental disorders that, you know, I think really the most elegant forms of psychological thought, are those that really talk about positive psychology and that sort of thing where we all have within us potentials for psychosis schizophrenia, bipolar, you name it. It's just we all have a propensity even for dissociative identity disorders. The realization depersonalization Multiple Personality we all have those capacities. It's just a matter of, you know what's nurtured. This is why I'm so into this whole thing on epigenetics right now how it is that environment. On a biological level genetic expression is actually invoked by environmental conditions. And so environment is what brings out these types of beings and behaviors and so I'm stepping into another person's shoes. His, you know, sometimes the phrases, storying, their existence in other words, like I mentioned I think last week, you know what would what would you have been like. Had you been put in the exactly the same conditions that Ted Cruz and Holly and Trump and these other people that right now we don't really, maybe I'm being a little bit presumptuous thinking we all think this way maybe I'm just revealing my bias. You know the nurture nature thing. How much does nature. Come in. I should say how much does nurture come in to affect the expression of nature. And so these are a couple things that came to my mind and also, I think, if there's a somewhat irreducible component to this and the application of this is not so simple, it's education, education, education, you know, understanding the role of development, understanding the role of psychology understanding the role of spirituality because in my view, they're all on a spectrum. And so by this, what I mean is that ego is an arrested form of development. And so when we have these outrageous expressions of ego. It's a developmental issue. And so, easier said than done, but you know at the heart of it is education. And this is where it gets extremely tricky, because when you talk about education and you talk about levels of development.
It's almost impossible not to slip into issues of DOD hierarchy. But, you know, you just have to look, honestly, at evolution phylogenetic and epigenetic not just as it arises within our own being, but as it arises historically, that there is this thing called evolution. And, you know, an adult is in many ways. This is very interesting. Potential topic for conversation and a more evolved being than than an infant, in many ways, not always. And so therefore, you know development is absolutely critical and hundreds and hundreds of extremely intelligent sophisticated anthropologists developmental psychologists, social scientists have without equivocation showed Piaget Kohlberg levenger I mean literally hundreds if not 1000s of very sophisticated thinkers have shown that there is this spectrum of evolution the spectrum of development. So to me, this is extremely subtle I think it's super important but implementing it is very difficult because when you start talking about development and developmental stages, then you get hierarchy hierarchy is an articulation. It doesn't have to be Dominator hierarchy so that is usually what happens is that when you speak about hierarchy. Of course, I mean almost by default. Most of us. And this is again where it's helpful to be really humble and honest with our own assessments. You know what we do what we think is the best where you know we may not feel were the highest but we think we're just involved. Most of us, you know in kind of enterprises that are the best. They may not be the best for everybody their best, their best for us, otherwise we wouldn't be doing them. But then, of course, is this projection reputation that maybe it's best for everybody. And that's where things get tricky so development to me is absolutely critical because ego, which is where all this stuff is coming from is really just a form of development there's nothing inherently wrong with ego, that if you didn't have ego you wouldn't be here. You need to be somebody before you can be nobody. The issue is integrating that contextualizing it, keeping the ego in understanding that it's just a spectrum to frequency of human development, then you go to trans ego or transpersonal spiritual developments in dimensions and so the real trick here is again. Working with the issue of hierarchy. Not all hierarchies are Dominator hierarchies, where it's top down, where the highest than just that's why they're called Dominator hierarchies. You can also use hierarchy as actualization hierarchy, where if you understand like for me. I sit at the feet of of men and women that I consider to be really pretty evolved beings, really evolved spiritual cycles, psychologically actually more spiritually really, really evolved beings, and because I understand, and abide by actualization hierarchy. I use these, these more evolved beings as inspirations like I want to be like that. And so, I just wanted to drill down a little bit into the mix, it's a colossally important topic. But I think it's integral in terms of understanding how we can actually start to communicate listen to others, education, obviously, is the least obviously to me is critical to the whole enterprise, understanding the role of development. Psychological spiritual and otherwise and then all of the promise and peril of that type of thing, including these issues of hierarchy so that that's my rant for today. I want to turn to some of these questions were really good. And then open the door. I probably can't get to every single one of them today but every, every question that comes in. I have another word doc. The ones that I answer and the highlights the ones that I can't get to, they get put to the top of the list for next week, so don't worry, we will answer all your questions. So, from Tim most of my life I have tried to be a political and to follow the middle way and stay balanced on the path. Curious Tim if you're listening what the middle way, you're referring to here. So if you can come on and see what you mean specifically in this relationship the middle way that would be helpful. So back to him, it seems difficult to do nowadays, but don't you think it's still worth trying to do.
The worth trying to do being apolitical or following the middle way that's not totally clear to me, so maybe you could help me with that. Our country is so polarized Don't you think it's worthwhile to keep our balance rather than getting swept up into one to the polarized extremes. That part is to me Yes, absolutely. 100%, and you know if I'm understanding your question here, Tim. The what the one of the problems with becoming a political and this is again. could be a form of bypassing spiritual bypassing is that apolitical can be a pathetic. In other words, apathetic where it can easily slide into an activism and really various forms of bypassing. So, that I think the trick is you can still step in without getting swept away into polarized extremes and so by this what I mean. And I was I was actually writing about this just this morning. To put it into a historical traditional context and this is where I think the Hindu teachings on what's called turiya and turiya Tita are super helpful. So this is a really large spiritual framework for addressing your question. So turiya is called the fourth literally, it basically eludes many wisdom traditions, the fourth Toria, is considered the apex of the whole evolutionary spiritual thing, somehow, you know, removing yourself extricating yourself from the messiness the dirtiness of conditioned reality and and accessing a sublime spiritual state of mind. There's tremendous provisional validity to that, you know, accessing these completely pure pristine states of mind, which again a lot of traditions, that's that's the heaven principle. That's the heaven principle that has provisional validity but then what do you do with hell if you just hang out in heaven, and so it's powerful as is even tradition is like invited Vedanta which is primarily a tree a type of approach, at least in my understanding, one massive limitation to that is, again, like like I started at the very outset with Tong Lin. Well then what do you do with your precious spirituality. In Buddhism, this is the archetypal travel the our hot, where you know you attain your, your ultimate benefit and the rest of the world goes you know to crap. So, the great transformation from tree to tree at Keita is a turiya t test is sometimes called the fifth beyond the fourth. That's literally what it means. But it doesn't mean the fifth, that doesn't mean something even more removed. No. What's brilliant about Tria Tita is you take, you take your emptiness you take your spiritual realization. That's the fruition of the fourth Turia. That's a transcendent transcendence can very easily become transcendental ism in the next in the in the pejorative sense where you don't transcend but include you transcend but exclude. And that's a real problem that is a colossal problem in the spiritual business so I love the teachings on Tria Tita beyond the fourth means you take the wisdom of the fourth, and then you come back into form. You take your wisdom, and you step into politics, you step into the world, as, as an enlightened political Safa ECOSOC but Bodhisattva. And in fact, you know, beautifully summarized and Suzuki Roshi famous beautiful statement related to this. When he said Strictly speaking, there are no enlightened beings there's only enlightened activity, that's fantastic statement so enlightened activity enlightened activism enlightened thinking, there is a way to think non dualistic it is in fact to take this realization. And then, reincarnate come back into form, come back into politics come back into science come back into the world. In an imminent way, not just the transcendent way.
I think this is super important, because you know right now in my opinion, and this is just me. Now's not the time to stay completely chilled out right in your precious retreat. And again, I speak for myself here too, when the world is in a blast furnace. Again, my dear friend David Loy of what relevance is our spirituality if that's all we can do with it. You know, Buddhism will go extinct. These wisdom traditions will go extinct, or they're going to go so far underground. If they can't be applied. This is my take on it. And so this is why I love David's work I'm more and more interested in enlightenment activism and what that really means. And because this is so important to him please understand I'm not in any way dismissing or criticizing the evolutionary ascent into the dharmakaya into the forest into this pristine Heaven, absolutely necessary to do that type of retreat. But if you just keep retreating you're escaping. So at a certain point, you pull in it's a wonderful play on words you pull a wicked as you turn, where the U turn here is a y o u
You call you come back you pull that you turn to be a benefit to others. So maybe that's what you're referring to. I don't think
I see Tim's or Derek, he wrote in the chat to me the middle way is not going to either extreme.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking yeah exactly Tim so I completely agree with you. And so you won't fall into any extreme. If you hold this type of right view where and, you know, unfortunately, very easy to capitulate and become kind of spiritual extremists. You know extremism is rampant as long as egos are rampant
that's my riff on this, my friend. I think we're probably on the same page. Oh, this is a good one from Nicole these questions are so great. Well, I appreciate your political session regarding the recent insurrection. I do not see how Twitter banning Trump will make things more equitable in our society, if anything it stifles all of our citizens first amendment rights. It's very dangerous. You might be interested in the below YouTube podcast between Chris Hedges blah blah blah. Yeah, maybe you can post that I haven't listened to that, I apologize. Beware, it is very truthful and may offend those who fervently believe in our two party system. Ah, that was a time to be offended Nicole Don't you think so great question here again, I'm speaking a little bit more I tried to centrifuge out. You know when I attempt to act in my pathetic way as a representative of the wisdom traditions, is I have come to understand them and of course, who knows if my understanding is accurate. I try to send a future that out from my own personal stuff my own biases My own view so now I'm speaking from my bias my view that I think banning Trump from Twitter was one of the best things that happened. Banning him from Facebook banning him from all these platforms, was one of the best things that happened. And here's why again coming back to this developmental notion. Until ego is transcendent and that's what Trump represented Trump represented Rudra. The opposite of Buddha, the absolute antithesis of Buddha is Rudra super ego, not in a Freudian sense in a pejorative pathological sense. So, until ego is transcended, it needs to be regulated, that's that's why we even at a religious level, and I've done some research on this, I was doing some research on I'm writing two books so one of my books I did quite a bit of research on this topic about the kind of the archetype The, the principle of regulation regulatory agencies, and how every world's religion that that I studied, bar none has some form of restraining orders. They have their built in regulatory agencies in terms of like the 10 commandments, the five precepts, the Quran, every tradition I studied has their version of restraining orders. And this is completely in line with the four karmas that I talked about last week before types of action karma that don't create karma pacifying enriching magnetizing destroying, there is a place for the power of restraints. I mean, I have been on there's so many examples here, extreme examples I've been around dying people who are so resistant to the death process that they they literally become violent, they have to be restrained you literally have to hit them with the with the sedatives the benzodiazepines and others almost put them in a straitjacket strap them down, because they will hurt themselves and others. It's exactly what Trump has been doing in my estimation hurting himself and others. And so, to me, Nicole, my bias. He needs to be restrained, and even further. And sometimes people go geez well what's spiritual about this well it's really spiritual and again listen to the interview, the podcast that Sam Harris did last week, he didn't use this terminology but I totally agree with him. There are times when you have to take these people out I'm not saying Trump I am not espousing that this is where I am speaking as as a representative of the tradition, there is a place for the karma of destruction. And so if racism and hate and violence and deception and lies and fake news is being propagated. Where's the, where's the, you know, irrespective of first Amendment's right, where's the skillful means and that conspiracy theories, you know, there's I don't see no skillful means and just allowing them to propagate that they need to be muzzled, in my opinion, you need these restraining orders. Ego needs regulatory agencies. And that's why we have them at all these different levels. So I politely disagree with you, but you know like Biden said yesterday we can fiercely disagree, and still have a conversation. This is the sense of debate dialectic conversation so that's just my view. Okay. Couple more and then unfortunately, this is great. This is just terrific I get to say, all these really charged potentially incendiary things, and then guess what, I'm out of here.
I got this all sussed out man. No, honestly, I will come back and I will engage every aspect of just being a little smarter here. So, from Laura, my question is how to discern. Oh yeah. Connected how to discern how and when kind
of tough love.
Fourth calmer response to karma destruction is called for. What does that look like, how can you measure that. Can you talk a little bit about that yeah this is a, this is such an important topic and it's so charged. As you might suspect you know. So it's fundamentally, excuse me, Laura. When nothing else works. When nothing else works. When you go through the pacifying you go through the enriching you go through the magnetizing. And it doesn't work. And so what immediately comes to mind I watched this amazing series last year, right when the pandemic started like a 10 part, PBS series of blew me away on World War Two. I was just riveting. And one of the things that comes to mind around this is when Chamberlain tried to appease Hitler. Remember, remember, he went over there and signed all these things and he came back beaming you know I've got him under control. We've met we didn't use the terms but basically we pacified and we enriched and we magnetize them were good. They weren't good, right. They weren't good, the three karmas didn't work. And so there's there's one of many you know with that as an example there are hundreds if not 1000s of examples, just like this, where, you know, you go through these more kind of genteel ways of relating communicating. And if that doesn't work, and there's still this raging Rudra level egoic expression. The karma of destruction is the only way to go. Okay. Only thing left. I'm speeding through, you know, this is the again the challenge with these sorts of things these questions are so good. Literally, you could do a whole course, easy, you could do an easy a whole course on the four karmas and their application, it's incredibly important material so please forgive me if I can't just exhaustively answer these, so I know these questions are all tied into this is great so from meskel. Understanding the alienation and disenfranchisement of straight white men is an important process. They reigned supreme since the beginning of human history but are now told by their culture that they don't count that those whom they once enjoyed subjugating disparaging rain. Those whom they once enjoyed subjugating and disparaging rain, and that they must change their anger is understandable, how do we hug them, let them cry in our arms and bring them back into the humanistic fold. What a great question. I asked Sharon Salzberg point blank this exact question. How do we how do we bring them back into the fold, can we bring them back into the fold. So really, what a fantastic question, this is again the $64,000 question. When we post Sharon's and I'm trying to do it tomorrow. We're gonna I'm going to post Sharon's conversation, hopefully tomorrow. We talked about this a lot to me again, it has to do with this this starting and with education, understanding the role of development. Understanding the extreme importance of being able to listen. This is one reason no exaggeration is hard as it is for me. And trust me, it was not easy. I have like a certain sense I was gonna say brace myself when I listen to Sean Hannity and Tucker Carlson and people that I just I can't stand. I brace myself with space, and I go into these environments where I have to, you know, I try to listen to things that are so antithetical to my views I feel the contraction I feel the revulsion. I feel the impulse to throw my shoe at the TV screen. And and I say Well listen, if I can't even listen to these people. How can I communicate with them, how can I ever embrace them How can I love them. And so this is the type of reverse meditation that I actually work with, like any reverse meditation, it's not easy but it's really
So, you know, we have to, in my estimation understand the importance of development. The understanding the power of love, most powerful force in the universe. But sometimes this stuff just doesn't work. Sometimes people, and you can see this in really extreme cases and that's why I was talking about earlier, we all represent these bandwidths of extremes Pema children talks about this. I mean in one of her talks I can't remember where she said you know we we each of us has a murderer within us. Each of us has a child abuser within us. You know we have a little devil and a little divinity within us, and and so what environment talk about epigenetics, right. What environment, do we put that psychic gene in, do we put that in an environment like a stem cell that cultivates that that's probably what happened to Trump and all these people I mean I can't say maybe you know they have that little devil in them like we all do. And they were put in into an epigenetic environment I either upbringing read, Mary Trump's book how my family created the world's most dangerous man. I was blown away by her insights, by the way. She was so spot on. So, you know, all this stuff helps us understand develop empathy and compassion for others that have different histories different storylines different epigenetic frameworks that actually then invoke, not just merely genetic expression. But psychic and psychological expression, and then you get these results we all have that capacity. So if we understand that, then we can develop a little bit of empathy and compassion, but sometimes people are so invested in so solid so extreme such extreme as you can think again. Really really extreme examples would be like a serial killer. You know someone who's just so solid, that they're they're unworkable. And then you know you're left with the fourth karma and so maybe a slightly softer example, very famous statement. In the world of science and what actually constitutes evolution and development in the world of science. Because Science again is this is a is created by scientists and one, I can't remember who said it. Probably some someone like popper or Karl Popper, who knows I can't remember where he said science progresses funeral by funeral. What an amazing statement. In other words, it's only when the old guard dies off and their, their tremendous grip on the old scientific paradigms that actually science can be freed up to go forward. So I'm kind of peppering in different examples from a number of different circles and oh my gosh. Oh, this stuff is so great you guys but I apologize I. It's either that or I just rescheduled the whole thing for today and I didn't want to do that. So, the questions that were still on the pipeline and the people that were still online with raise questions from last week, we'll get to you all, I promise, but I hope you understand, in terms of practicing empathy and compassion for me, because it's all about me. I have to prepare for this, this event in an hour. So I do apologize for that. And I honestly somewhat tongue in cheek, I do not mean to land some of these incendiary comments, without providing an opportunity for discussion I was being a little bit smart alakay there. So, I absolutely positively, write your questions in here I will get them to them next week, but we've got some super gifted people that are listening here. And I'm going to let Andy, empower you to you know talk amongst yourself we're going to record this, we are we are we're recording this Andy. Yeah. And so what I can do then is, I can come back and listen to what I'm missing. And then next week when we come back, we'll be able to unpack this stuff even further. I think this stuff is really important right now. You know, it's just this colossal sets of elephants it's not one elephant in the room right as Biden said yesterday. I mean, we got a bunch of elephants in this room right. And so, to whatever extent we can continue to communicate amongst ourselves in topics that are really super important and really charged and so the one guideline I might recommend that I mentioned last week.
Is that before you ask your question and so again the offerings last week that last half half last half hour from last week I hardly said anything because the the contributions were so awesome that I invite you to make this as a platform for now, I will listen to the recording is one small guideline for me I might recommend before you express your question. Take a one breath meditation session. Touch into what you're feeling. Try to separate out reactivity from response ability. This is what I do. If I feel contraction. If I feel a real charge. I might take to one breath meditations I might take five to connect to what I'm really feeling so I just don't spew out some kind of reactive egoic thing and I get these sorts of things anybody who's ever taught. You know, it's kind of unbelievable sometimes the sorts of messages I get from people. It's like, really. Didn't you like walk around the block before you sent me that note. I'm okay with it but it's like really. So with that in mind, before you make your contribution, take a pause. Touch into what you're feeling speak from your heart. Notice that near enemy of reactivity and contraction breathe into that. And then speak your truth. And if other people get offended, check into that. What is it that's offending you Why are you feeling offended. There is again a place for being offended. But then from that level do we in fact become offensive or defensive in reactivity to that, or can we in fact be bigger enough to hold it relate to it instead of from it, and then engage in constructive discourse is is almost kindergarten level communication as this is. Honestly, this would solve 99% of the world's problems, if people could just take ownership of their, their feelings, their reactivities their projections their hopes, their fears their imputations. Connect to what's really happening, speak from that space this is great for any disarmament conversation, even with your partner with your boss inner disarmament take responsibility for that feeling within you. And then be fearless speak your heart speak your truth, so I apologize for having to run. I hope you understand, I will listen to the recordings, and anything I said today really ask the question, put it in the chat we'll convert it into the doc. We're going to come back to this next week but because of my presentation and just a wee bit over an hour, I've got to prep a little bit, so I apologize for that. Okay everybody, so Andy's gonna, he's a great moderator. Again the contributions last week were so good. I didn't really say anything, pretty much after I stopped. Um, so please feel free to continue. I will listen to this stuff later and otherwise I'll see you all next week. Thank you so much for giving me permission to scoot out.
All right, so the floor is open. And feel free to type it into the chat, which I can read aloud, or raise your hand. And I can give you the audio. Okay. Ted said he would like to repeat something Professor Thurman said in the Bardo of becoming 10 I'm going to give you the audio.
You know, this is something that I've been working on for many many years this ability to put myself in the shoes of other people and in the Bardo of becoming a doctor or professor Thurman said something that really resonated with me when he was talking about, about Trump, a question came up. And he said, we need to vote him out of office for his own sake, that the karma which he is creating and, and I'm paraphrasing what he said but it really struck home for what I tried to do. But he said the karma that he is creating for himself, and for others is going to lead to just an unbelievable in Buddhist terms time in the hell realms. And, you know, that's one of the ways that it's helped me get through this incredibly difficult time that we're that we're living through. And it's really doing it for his benefit. And that's, that's all I have to say it's just sort of a repeat of what he said that really struck me. Yeah,
thanks for sharing that Ted. Interesting said that's a great insight so thank you for sharing all right Myra has her hand up so I'm bringing my right next.
Hi, and Ted, Andrew was talking last week about that story of the Buddha saving the people that they were in that ship because he knew that they were going to be killed and we always focus in the people that were going to be killed. However, what the Buddha thought in this story is that he also wanted to liberate that person that was going to kill others of the karma of doing that. So that goes together with that story that I mean the way that tete felt about Trump. But I also wanted to bring the attention because I work in the immigration field that's been my. That's what I do, and immigration has brought me to face my demons in terms of what I do and the way that I feel about what the treatment that my clients were receiving the children that were separated and everything that is happening. For example, once a person was placed in proceedings in court had less than, 8% chance of winning a case even though he had been here for 15 or 20 years with a mother or grandfather paid taxes or whatever happened. And what I wanted to bring is that we all think about the other but I think it's our own fear and we have to recognize that we all have the potential for that same kind of behavior and we have to kind of take instability of what is happening because this didn't happen all the sudden this began a long time ago this Civil War really never ended and that's what we've been living through in. In, I will say that as relief as I am right now. The job is just beginning today. This didn't end, this is just the beginning. This things are there and their behaviors that are patterns, and their patterns that, you know, we go to the book that Android has been mentioning, in terms of epidemiology, is the trauma of our country, and that isn't the genes of these people and their family members their neighbors they are good people that we share with. So I invite to just rejoicing that and knowing that if we're thinking about karma and seeds. The good seeds yesterday ripen, we have a new precedent and we have to begin to see the future because this that those seeds are spent, and it's up to us what's coming. and if I see it like today already I can feel it in my immigration practice and the calls that I'm receiving and the ice officers that were given all these bad instructions, all the sudden they wrote a memo and now you cannot deport anybody for 100 days, that doesn't happen like that. It is so deep that trauma is so deep, and I invite all of us to, even if it's a little bit. Even if it's a smile, know that we're just beginning in that what the President said yesterday, this, the dark days are just still to come we have, we are in the darkest part of the night and we have hope what is up to us. So, I guess you can tell that I'm very passionate about. Thank you for listening, and I invite any questions that you guys may have regarding immigration and the way that has happened.
Thanks so much Myra. And Michelle said in the chat. I agree we should speak our truth, and I would add we also, we need to also listen to be changed when we deeply hear the truth of others that can transform us in ways we don't expect.
Right. And I think if we do recognize that we all have that potential in that even from this gracious way of us doing things. If there's a lot of the same color. And we have to take responsibility for that side of ourselves.
All right. Next I'm going to bring in Kenan. Hi, everybody. Thank you for the beautiful points. I thought I was going to ask Andrew something or share some contemplations about this subject and I thought I'll just share with everyone here. A couple of themes that I've been contemplating around this is you know at what point in history did we have like perfect scenario, just as a contemplation. And, you know, to me it seems like always there has been some kind of flux off, not a perfect society or not. Perfection for a long time, to all this seems like sort of an ebb and flow. So, not a think of it in a way of pessimism but just it's wanted me to contemplate and see if if trying to see, you know, a perfect civilization itself is is problematic or unrealistic. And the second thing is you know as spiritual aspirants here, especially with Andrew we speak a lot about the foundational aspects of reality. And that's at the subtle level, not at the gross level. And even in quantum physics or in science, you have quantum physics the entanglement the spooky action at a distance all that stuff. So, the thing that I've been wondering about is when thinking about at what level should one act. It's, you know, it seemed like most people would have a bias to act at the physical level at the gross level. And I was just trying to seek examples of where
work happens at the subtle level that actually does impact, perhaps, shouldn't should impact, you know,
being a spiritual aspirant should impact in a bigger way. So I'm just trying to,
to find examples that I wanted to ask Andrew and maybe you guys if you have such examples or how you feel about that, you know, activism at the subtle level Does, does mean meditating, and doing tonglen actually have powerful ripples that actually transform the gross world, and there are ways to actually measure that, in, in some way, just to kind of have that clarity on where one's time has to be spent more, at least for someone who doesn't feel that they have transformed themselves. So thank you. Thanks. Thanks for that. I could share a personal story it's a little bit funny but when I was first. When I first learned about tonglen. I don't think I necessarily had the right view about how to take in the suffering or, you know, these dark clouds. And actually what started happening is all this bad stuff started to happen, you know in my life. Little things but kind of funny things so. But yeah, so I just wanted to share that because I wasn't relating to it properly. And I did see some sort of results. Right right right on. Absolutely.
Okay, I'm gonna read some more in the chat. Joe said if those traits were not part of ourselves, we would never recognize it. I think that's well said. And Stephanie said so important and insightful Myra thanks for calling attention to that. And I think your view applies to many aspects of American life, in addition to immigration. And I see Barbara's hand just went up so let me give the idea to Barbara.
Can you hear me. Yeah.
Um, I just wanted to say that I've been thinking a lot about trying to understand this whole white supremacy issue because I think that is such a huge part of what is going on with with behind the scenes in the minds of, of all of these people that are on the right, and it's it's so fear based and one thing that really has helped me was reading the book by Isabel Wilkinson called cast. And she she's a really good writer she won the Pulitzer for her previous book, The Warmth of Other suns but in the book cast what she does is talk about the caste system in India, and in Nazi Germany. And in this country. And, you know, for someone who sort of thought that I wasn't racist. We like to think we're not racist but it was a revelation to it was not an easy book to read it's still very well written book but it's emotionally difficult, because what comes out is, all of the very subtle internal things that we've all inherited just by being born into this situation. And she has this incredible analogy in there where she talks talks about how we've all inherited this old house that's falling apart as huge issues we didn't, we're not, we didn't really create the house but we inherited it, and now there's a flood in the basement, and nobody wants to go down there. And I thought, that is like so much what it's like and unless we each as individuals can really go within ourselves to understand all these subtle levels about our role in in racism and what's happened or understand what it's like for a black person or a Native American person that has endured the 400 years of incredible painful. All the painful stuff that's happened I think that there's just so much healing that needs to be done in this, and it's been really challenging for me personally to, you know like, go to those dark places in me and feel those things and feel the incredible sadness and sorrow and shame are whatever that comes out from this but also that how I is sort of a white book and bitch, start to really bond with black women. This is one thing that I'm personally working on, because I think that I'm on a relative level. Well first, there's the internal subtler level of emotions and within our bodies of what we're holding related to this but then on the relative level of action. It's like how do we really reach out and connect. And then engage with people and communicate with people and then how do we start to understand all the people who are white and threatened because what's happening is is as racist move into being the majority in this country instead of the minority, these white people are feeling like they have lost their rightful place, they are fearfully threatened, and this is why they're so intensely feel that they could fight for what they feel is their right, even if they're going to die. And so I'm just seeing these huge deep things that need to be healed and I don't have any answers but that's what I just wanted to throw out there.
Thanks so much, Barbara. Thanks for doing that work. I thought, Judith had her hand up but I just went down so Oh, there you are, again, Judy.
Can you hear me. Yes. Yeah, I wondered if anybody had any thoughts about spiritual intervention that doesn't actually you know come from us and our own work, our own meditation and tonglen but actually comes from another source. And I've kind of felt it sometimes but I don't know whether it's real. And I think if you're a historian you go back and you see times in history where things have just flipped, they flip for the good, and there's no real explanation. I think there was something that I read about the Gettysburg, of the whole Gettysburg event that there are some people who think that there was spiritual invention, especially Rudolf Steiner. So I wondered if anybody else has any thoughts about that because it was my immediately immediate thought when Georgia, we won that was our maybe there was some spiritual intervention there. So if anybody has any thoughts about that I'd love to hear it.
Thanks to you. Yeah, feel free to type, any comments in the chat or come out and raise your hand. I see cat wants to come on. So we bring in cat text. Okay. Are you there. Let me try one more time. You're unmuted cat
that came to mind when Kenan was speaking, that I know is taught in some Buddhist systems. And I tried to use it all the time and getting better at it, as I go. But the whole idea of which level to respond. Through is incredibly challenging for me. And so, I go back to this system, which is based on elements Shockers everybody's got different language, but the idea in contemplation meditation is to start out beyond the head in the space element. And when all of the energy is to to that drop down a little bit into the qualities that you want to express the measurables, always work contemplating each of the foreign measurables, so that that's fully awake and pulsing through the system that is what I want to bring to the world, and then go on to the heart to feel what and what I want to share about to feel about that. Then when you get into the fire in the belly. What in the world is am I, what is ready to be acted on, what do I have the resources and the skill. To be able to do right now. And once all of the transcendence moves through the qualities and into the options. Then it almost becomes inevitable that that intention will flow through the earth element into the world in the highest possible vibration for that person. And as I said I'm not qualified to teach it barely qualified to even say it, but it felt really really important here. I really responded to King's Quest.
Thank you for sharing that captain. I think Eden has his hand back up so let's bring him back in, and then we'll get into some of the other hands as well. Hey, thank you for that meditation that just, you know, made me contemplate and think about it and thanks to Andy we have the transcript here so we'll have a chance to have the chance to go back in and read it. One of the tasks that came to what Judith was sharing was I haven't been too much tapped into this but I did hear, I believe it's Stacey Abrams, and even George's and her efforts and stuff and I hear heard a little bit talk of her on a, on a panel of a TV show called supernatural. So, what I guess what I wanted to share was it was very interesting for me I was kind of like surprised to see her there and the conversation was about what was happening in Georgia, and this is like a couple of months ago or a month and a half ago. And she seems quite spiritually inclined and into Comic Con and a lot of this, you know, Marvel hero and stuff and what she was sharing was that she really was taking those personas, that would appear in fantasy like that heroic ness, and that was her source of inspiration for what's, what was the work that she was doing in the political arena. So, I thought maybe that that was relevant because for her that that MindScape was very real of, you know, those trials and tribulations that the heroes face versus what she was doing in her in her life, so maybe it does it did have an impact. Thanks for adding that Keenan. And I see Sophie in the chat room, I thought RGB intervened. I thought that was pretty funny. And it could have also been the fly that landed on Mike Pence Who said I saw that the fly might have intervened to David said he gave a public talk on that subject so let's bring in David next and then we'll bring in Kareena.
Yes. A few years ago I gave a talk on just what Judas was talking about. Except I was really focusing on the related direct obvious, not sort of mysterious aspects of spiritual practice. And the talk. Was it a climate change, multifaith gathering, but it I focused on civil rights issues. And I talked about three times in recent history in which there were dramatic changes in civil rights issues and one was when the English slave trade was ended, and it was over economic issues, some lot, but it was most of that was led by spiritual groups, Quakers and others who had decided it was unethical. But they used economic arguments to convince the Britain to stop the slave trade and. and. So another one was the American Civil War, and it was church groups that were the primary supporters of the Underground Railroad. For instance, both in the United States and Canada. And, and they were arguing for these changes and supporting the causes and were heavily influencing people including Abraham Lincoln, but it was the direct actions that I'm talking about how they were involved in it. In, saying it from the pulpit again and again and again. But again, there were economic issues, because it turned out that the North. Wanted to process the cotton trade. By using cotton gins and the South wanted to keep slaves, doing the same work. So, an economic component, and you had to make the economic argument as well, the two together. And then the third was during the, the time of Martin Luther King, and probably just before. Following the Russian Revolution and the rise of Stalin and Trotsky when they were first off, discussing whether black issues civil rights needed to be part of the socialist communist approach, or whether they could stand on their own. And, you know, I believe they really should have been more involved in socialist instead of standing on their own, but still. The point was that, and there were a lot of church groups, it was a church good for fostering this argument. And so it's an economic issue, again, and Martin Luther King embraced it and Gandhi's approaches were economic, as well as spiritual combined. So, marrying that together and we can look at that right now its economic issues, a transformation of our world in terms of are we going to transformation away from the economics of oil and capitalism and corporatism and extreme inequity into a society that might be more spiritually set up as eco socialism for instance where smaller groups, that's not it. It's not based on that the giant capitalist economic system, which is just there to take money away from individuals and communities and put it in the hands of people like Bezos and others and we've been through that argument again and again and again. And it causes collapses every time we let it go. And I could talk to talk about that too but I'm not going to, but so does that answer what you wanted to know, Judas I think maybe it does. And we found that in Georgia too, because in Georgia, with a transformation in the voting towards the two senators happened when the democrats started just saying, look, if we win here we're gonna give every person. $2,000 in COVID aid. And when they promised that the numbers, switch. It was always a tight race, but it was the switch. From there, and it was engineered out of these women, black women from the church groups that were fighting combination of economics and spirituality. And I think as Buddhists, we need to get on the ball and just air out of our Buddhist organizations and all need to come out and tie those two together, because we're pretty damn awfully elitist and tied into the current economic systems, and not really resilient and we're doing exactly the same things that Andrew was talking about. We're just terrible about it. So, sorry to be blunt. Thanks.
Thanks for your contribution David, um, let me let Judith respond real quick and then crane I promise I'll bring you in next. Yeah,
thanks so much that was really helpful. So what you're saying is, there needs to be a moral impetus first, and then you use the economic situation as persuading people that that that's the way to go. But I know that in my own life, it, I felt sometimes the hand of something else. You know you turn you when you, when you're on the right course somehow the universe will turn around and help you and things will just fall into place. And I wonder where that comes from. I still do believe that there is spiritual intervention that there is something going on, that is beyond us, and maybe I'm wrong, but it's it's a strong sense I feel, but thanks very much for that that was really interesting and helpful.
All right, let me bring in Krishna next and then I'll read somewhere in the chat.
First of all, I want to thank you for this space you hold here. I'm feeling honored that I can take part in it. I am here that you all have a lot of knowledge and in the spiritual practices and so on I am more of a lay person I've studied all my life, in my own way, sort of, and I was interested in responding to your question that you did because I, I've been practicing somewhere in between I think from what I hear from the Buddhist tradition, I am quite Buddhist, but I have been driven by spirit my whole life, really. And I, for me it's so real that I, there is no question anymore about it. And there is something within that that drives me, and has taken me to places that I could not understand myself but the answer comes after often. And I think also a lot about the things that Andrew was talking about earlier today that. I think it's very much about intention always intention I found out that myself because I sometimes thought I had a very good intention, but then perhaps there was something sneaking that was not so, so good as I thought and. So yes, I think it's a combination and. And I also would like to address because I think those of you who have heard me talk last time. I have some experience in living with a person who had a lot of knowledge really studying a lot of spiritual realms. Who anyway, got totally caught up in conspiracy theories and, and I am asking myself those questions a lot. How can we reach the realm of of thoughts in someone who has really got lost in conspiracy theories because it's very very difficult and I think it's a question of like nearly brainwashing reverse, in some sense, and I don't know who is capable of doing it and and i think it's a very important topic to talk about because so many young people today who are like drawn to those forums. And what can we do really to avoid it, because it's causes so much harm in society. That's my sharing.
Thanks green. Thanks for coming on and sharing. I read a few of the chat comments and then I'll get to the rain. So Michelle said thanks Barbara Yes, I agree that we need to go down in the basement and see the damage for me my practice really helps give me the courage and clarity to do that, and being okay with not knowing, not fixing just trying to understand what might be true for another person, and letting that change my set patterns of who I am and what needs to be on a subtle felt, and often emotional level. Karen said quote intervention was lots of hard work by Stacey Abrams, Katie said Thank you, Barbara for your heartfelt sharing I'm deeply touched by your expression of the truth you uncovered and reading cast, and Judas said yes, I agree. She's incredible and work so hard but I still wonder whether those who have passed over have any interest in what happens in the world. And whether the more evolved actually can influence the events of the world. I mean, the more evolved, the ones who have died. Alright Lorraine.
Hi. Thanks. See, I'm kind of. I'm kind of happy to share when Andrew is gone because I'm a workflow. Don't judge me on timing myself. Yeah, I just found so much of what was said was really. I want to absorb just hugely lightning and I appreciate so much being here. My military I think I read in the papers that the government nearly crashed last week here or something I have not got to grips with the politics here. When you've been here two years but I'm trying to be really succinct which I struggle with, because there's so much so many different trains of thought running for me and this but I I feel that I'm often questioning during Andrews talks. I'm questioning myself on you know, is there more that that I can do you know can I sort of exit my apartment block right now and physically you know can I go and start a movement, I'm asking myself sort of inquiry questions which I really, I feel good that I'm doing that. Because I'm sort of waiting, perhaps for. Well, I'm looking at that, which I think is really where I want to be right now but I also look at sort of elephant in the room and also David's talk a lot of being real. And I like to think that sometimes the weaknesses that I've held in my mind at, you know, I've considered that I've got perhaps on my strengths, you know, I'd read that somewhere I think in Chuck's pizano in the 90s you know your weaknesses true is actually your true strength, and I, I'm a talker and I'm also not, I'm not scared to say you know that the Emperor's got no clothes on, loudly. So I like to look that maybe that's my contribution, looking at my life you know i. There was a pedophile lurking in the family who I outed and my life has been running away from money that's come from fossil fuel industry and always speaking up so I I'm, I know that's my path and I don't I'm on a line of inquiry at the moment of where does that lead into direct action you know into the contribution to the bigger picture. And I'll just say two more things for fear of rambling but I like very much what was said by Judas about spiritual intervention I feel that very much within me I have precognition experiences and I have no doubts within me for that's not something I could successfully debate I just see that. And the other thing is that Robert Thurman I think does a very good job for me in lightening the load in that I am 100% giving everything I've got to this life, as unselfishly as I'm currently capable of doing but he says that if you study the truth. It puts you in a position to have to know that you can afford to be optimistic and that carries me through these times so thank you so much for letting me share sorry there's no camera.
Thanks Lorraine so it's nice to hear from you. I'll read a few more in the chat questions, we'll keep it open for another five or 10 minutes or so or as long as people want to contribute. So clearly said, maybe not beyond us but within us something we can't move in the same way as in the form rounds. And Peter said spiritual support in our own direct action, I think there's a potent combination. David responded yet, personal and community direct action in spiritual work and intention and see Judith added yes within us that perhaps connects to a wisdom that lends a hand Bronwyn, etc. Good question, and Carla said regulate social media. And then Dan said deprogramming. All right. I thought it was a really Andrews answer was really nice about the, the banning of Trump on Twitter and whatnot. I was interested to hear what he had to say because I actually watched that video, which I thought was interesting too. All right, Katie. Come on. You just have to hit unmute. There you go.
So, I realized that what I'm going to say is motivated by my need for permission and my thing about being a good girl but I was very inspired by Andrews talk last time about, you know how we need to look within ourselves reflect on who we are, where we're located what our skills are. And you know get very centered and ask what we can do, you know, in terms of action. And so I thought, you know it's like a call to action, and I actually found. I don't know what it is, because I haven't been there yet but a friend of mine has access to a website where this woman who runs the website, talks about all of the actions you can take to make a difference in the world. And I thought, wouldn't it be great if I put that in the chat. And then each one of us could do that kind of internal supplicating that Andrew talked about last time asking our bodies what we can do and see if any of these things on that website match with our propensities or inclinations or intentions all those things. So anyway, I was going to ask Andrew permission.
I guess I'm asking you permission you know i mean he set the stage, he said go for it supplicate find out what you can do. Well, so this came to me I found out about this website. Would you like me to put that in there or is that some kind of a weird thing to do.
Or you could share the website. Okay.
All right, well I will do that next time because that means I'd have to go off and I don't have the skill to go off and come back on.
So, well thanks Katie. Yeah. And I'm reading your comment now. Towards Kareena I appreciate your share, I agree with the points you made the answers are far reaching. And one of the first questions I had when I was first entering the Buddhist path I asked the yogi. You know, can we change our motivation. And because sometimes it seemed like my motivation maybe wasn't pure, because the answer was yes. So we can really look at these things and change your motivation. Yeah. David asked for you to post the link at the next time. Laura said I'm glad you did that David looks interesting.
Karina I relate so much on what you were saying here I found that my silent quality was a real quality. Until one day it was not anymore and discerning when it is time for what is not always easy. And there will be a lot of opportunities for failure in both doctrines silence and speaking at action or positivity patience or showing disagreement
All right, Laura.
It's okay now I am, can you hear me.
Yes, louder. Okay, great. Yeah,
I just wanted to say I find it kind of amazing this conversation has been so great. And I appreciate everybody's contributions but.
Andrew had just gotten around to reading my question in the early part right before he left. And I just found that everybody, everything that everybody said touched on an address. Part of what was motivated me to pose that question. And I just wanted to come in, it's kind of amazing I so appreciate this conversation and I look forward to listening to it again. And it keeps bringing me back to the four karma. The four positive karma is and I really see that as a focal point for where to study right now and where to to work and to look at in combination with my meditation practice to hopefully have that discerning between where to act as Keaton was describing how to act and where to act in which body that by the time you get to the gross body and you're acting. How much have you missed where you could have acted in the other bodies, and so forth. It seems like everything everybody said in this competition was all connected and really helpful so I just wanted to say that. Thank you, everybody.
And thanks for your question. It was a good one. All right, Katie come back on.
Yes, I will put that address and when I find it back on because I wanted to talk to Kareena because I felt so what's the word stimulated by your question, and I didn't feel like I could adequately address it by typing something in the chat just to say that it seems to me this issue with people who are brainwashed. You know, it's like a whole cultural societal issue where people have lost a sense of identity and they're, they're looking for something to identify with. And then like Andrew said you know bottom line is, it's a developmental issue. So I mean, it's so far reaching in terms of why people go through these. I don't know what you call it, brainwashing or conspiracy theories or whatever. But you know, I, having this in my own family where my brother is just a true believer in conspiracy theories and understanding because my background is in psychology totally understand developmentally how he gets to be where he is. And then also understand that the whole societal piece with with things falling apart in this society where we used to have like our tribal identities and we used to identify more with our churches and, you know, so, so you get what I'm trying to say Kareena is just kind of like my God, the answer is just so far reaching not that nothing can be done but it's just like,
oh my god, it's huge.
It's huge. You know, so that I wanted to say that I didn't want to let your, your comments go because I thought this is really just profound what you're talking about. And it's the answer is
All right, Myra.
I'm almost at maybe at the end then put two things in positive note, I think that listening to the poem by Amanda yesterday I think that by itself is such an Dharma class in one of the things that she said that she realized we're not broken. We are just like evolving in going to Kenan thing, this is a never ending because nothing is permanent. And everything changes. So we are just in that evolution of contraction and expansion and contraction and expansion. And if you see it like that evolution that's why it's so important the meditation so what we do there be because you believe that there's an intervention, we have to have our hearts open to be receptive to even notice that, and the other thing is that, listening to the president remarks also have in terms of his values because it is of his deep faith that he knows that it's a beginning in this morning in the reporting, I think that there is hope is that the truth will prevail and that a few of us would carry this over. Not because we're going to convince them by force, but by the truth, and their reporting that even some of the people that believe in Q anon and the conspiracy when they realized that all the deadlines have not come true. Some of them were beginning to say, Oh, my gosh, we have been lied to we have been doomed. So, it already there is an erosion of believing that maybe there's some change. So the only thing that we can do is just, we do our part a little bit at a time and we just spread our energy to our immediate community and the media community says that goodness, but it's only by our actions. We're not going to be able to convince anybody have any other way so we can meditate, we can wish and our actions in our immediate family and immediate friends. But I think there is already great hope in some of the inspiration so what happened. So, at least that's my prayer.
Thanks for that matter. All right, Katie another comment.
Yeah, what my wrist said what we're talking about with Kareena It reminded me of this quote from Thomas Merton about hope I don't know if people are familiar with him, that he wrote this in a letter to a friend about hope and I of course I don't have it right next to me but it's something about how you have to basically give up all hope and fruition. With hope, like you don't do an action because you think it's really going to change the situation, you know, because it might not in fact it might be worse than that might make it worse. Whatever it is you do. He said, so you can't not act. Because of that, but the hope. Hope is really about doing the right thing in relationship to another person in the moment. And I thought that really does it right, you know, and that's like that's the way to address Korea's issue about you know deprogramming, I mean it's it as Andrew talks about. It's all about right relationship you know being open listening and understanding and tick not Han talks it talks about it too like that's the gift we can give we can let these people spew their, their pain and listen to it without intervening, and then eventually you know they'll trust that we listen, and maybe the pain will have been vented and they can see beyond it. You know, so. So anyway, so I want to say those are two really important things that I've learned in the last year, about, you know, Thomas Merton thing bad hope is give it up basically, but it really comes down to doing the right thing in the moment in relationship with whoever you're dealing with. And then the other thing like that. I just said that tick not Han.
So, any final comments before we wrap it up, feel free to chat or raise your hand. I like that the President has a dog. Everyone anyone knows me I'm a dog person, my dogs usually talk during these things but they've been silent so that's good.
And I'll just say really quickly just a reminder so there is a community shares event tomorrow. It's at 1pm. Eastern Time. Everyone's invited. And then we have our movie night, Saturday night. That's 8pm Eastern time. And then we have a dream group on Sunday. That's at 1pm Eastern time. So I'd love to see you there. Any of those events. Peter said, I heard on a show the hill, rising today that one or two, one or two people in the interaction were formerly passionate Obama voters. For me this points to the scope and scale of the loss of striving for fulfillment meaning purpose and connection, it is ultimately a false path, but it can create great harms. Yeah. Thanks, Peter. I remember Andrew had a, I think it was a question from Prem das about hope and fear, probably, I don't remember what it was but with an injury and a really nice answer about that as well. Jill said and a cat and grandchildren yes thanks for adding that you appreciate it. Thanks, Tim. All right, well I think we'll wrap it up for today. Thanks so much everyone I greatly appreciate you all, you know all of your comments, it's really wonderful to be with you. So, yeah, come to any of our other events. And if not, I hope to see you next week. All right. Thanks everyone. Take care.