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Hi, my name is George Abraham. Welcome to Eyeway Conversations. My guest today is Manoj Govindraj who lives in the United States. He is a professional musician. Great having you, Manoj, welcome.
Yes, George, thank you so much for this opportunity. And welcome to everyone who's listening to this conversation.
So, Manoj, you grew up in India and the certain point of time relocated to United States. What's the story behind all this?
I think it was around 2002. My friend who was living in Chembur, Mumbai, that is where I grew up. She had gone to the US, and she contacted me. And she said that, "My husband and his partner, they are going to start a nonprofit organization for music, dance and yoga, and they needed somebody who could teach Hindustani music. Would you be interested?" So I said okay. I was not doing that badly at that point of time in India. I had a few tuitions. I had a part time job. And I was also actually working with Shilpi whom of course, we all know. She had a computer company doing web accessibility testing. In fact, if I were not a musician, I think I would have been in computers because that's really my hobby, and I love technology. So I was working with her and I was doing okay at that time. Not great but I was doing okay. But this opportunity came by and I thought, okay let's just try this. And I said, okay, I'll like to give it a shot. So the process began. In 2000, through one of the in-chargers who had started this organization, he came over to Mumbai, and my dad had very meticulously gathered all my documents. He was extremely methodical. So he had all my certificates and all the paper cuttings and everything. He had put together and then when the gentleman saw all the documents, he said, you know let's apply for a P-3 visa, which is a performing artist visa. So in 2003, the process started. And beginning of 2004, they called me from the US and they said that, you know, okay, your visa has been approved in the US. Now, it has to be stamped in the consulate in India. So they said, our attorney will call you and he will coach you as to how to answer questions during the interview. I said okay, fine. In the meanwhile, I got a appointment to submit all the documents at the VFS, you know.
Yeah, they are the people whom the American Embassy sub contracts the visa procedures.
Yeah, correct correct. So I got a date to submit all my documents there. I went there and they saw the documents. I had told the people in the US that I've got a date. I'll be submitting the documents, and I'll wait for the call from the attorney so that he can coach me. So then me and my father, we went and they took all the documents. And the gentleman who was there just casually asked me, "Your documents look pretty good like are you ready for an interview today?" I said okay. So like my father looked at me and he said what do you say? See, you know, I have always believed in the gut feeling and that some supreme power always controls and guides me is what I have always experienced right from my childhood. So I just said, you know what, let's just give it a shot. At the most what will happen, it will be rejected, you know. So let's just give it a shot. And then we said okay, we are ready for the interview. Then we stood in the line and then my turn came and then she just asked usual questions, an American lady. So apparently, P-3 visa was a visa which was quite misused unfortunately, at that time by some group of artists so they were very very careful about giving away those kinds of results. She just asked me a few questions and probably she wanted to make sure that I'm a legitimate musician and know what I'm doing. So she asked what instrument do you play. I said I play the harmonium which is the Indian keyboard. And then she just asked, "Do you know a harmonium shop in Mumbai, like if any harmonium gets damaged like is there a shop that repairs?" I said wow, that's interesting. That's totally my alley. I knew the answer to it. So I just answered that question. And then she said, "okay, you're all done, you can collect your passport". So we had gone to just submit the documents there. And we came back with the visa, you know, that was the amazing part. And then when we told the people over here, they were absolutely shocked. So I said forget about your coaching and everything. I'm done. I got the visa already. So you know, that's how it happened. And then on March 6, 2004 I came to the US and yeah, that's the time since I'm here.
Manoj, tell me a little bit about your life in India, meaning what did you do? What did you study and when did you actually lose your eyesight?
I was born blind. My parents, they accepted it. Of course, my parents, they were absolutely keen that I should not lose even a single year because of my disability. So then they put me in Mata Laxmi School for the Blind at Sion when I was three. I did my pre K there. And at the age of six, I went to the Victoria Memorial School for the Blind, where I studied until 5th grade. In both those places, I was living in a hostel. So I would go there on Mondays and come back on Fridays. Many people said why should he be put in the hostel. They questioned my parents but they were absolutely keen. They said that you know, he should know the nitty gritty of life at this age and he should really learn to be by himself be independent because you never know when that will come in handy in his future life. After I finished my 5th standard, my parents decided that probably now it's the right time for him. I was in 11 then. So they decided, now he can be integrated with the regular mainstream schooling. So very close to my house, there was a very very amazing school, Swami Vivekanand School. That's where I got admitted for 6th standard. That's when I think my real journey like started because that is when I actually got introduced to the real world, you know, the world of sighted people, the world of boys and girls being together because Victoria Memorial School for the Blind was only a boys school. So that was one experience. And of course, parallely I was doing music. I always wanted to do music because when I was small, I used to sing. And apparently my dad said that when I was three, when I was taken to Shirdi, everybody stopped singing. And then I suddenly began singing. I was always singing and then I was giving all those private exams in music. So by the time I had completed my 12th standard, I had already completed the private graduation in music called the Visharad. So my dad said, " okay, you've done this but then, you know, there's really not much income in this field. So do you want to like take up something and maybe do music as a side thing?" But I was extremely clear. I said no, I wanted to do music. I went to the Mumbai University music department, in which I did my Bachelor of Fine Arts and Master of Fine Arts in music. Fortunately, by God's grace, you know, I did well in masters. I got the first rank and masters in 1999 in the University. I got a part time job in a school in Sion. When I was teaching music, I was going there twice a week. Meanwhile what happened was in 2000, Indian Association of Visually handicapped IAVH, they started this computer course in the same building where my music department was. So I took up this course. In fact, my parents said that, you know, why don't you try this course. And believe me, when I did that course, I really fell in love with computers. You know, I thought that wow, this is so amazing. Shilpi, after a couple of years after we finished the computer course she contacted and she said, would you be interested in doing this? I said yes, definitely. And believe me, I was actually earning more in that job than my music job.
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Let's switch back to the United States. So you landed up in the US. So what was the early days in the US like?
It was actually difficult in the sense that it took a while for students to come.
Yeah yeah.
So from that point of view, it was a little difficult because I had to just spend the whole day waiting in the school. But the good point that happened in that was, I've always believed that some sort of a spiritual power which has control all my life. And I think it all happens for a reason, in the hindsight when we look at it later. During that time, when I was waiting in the school, I would just start my Tanpura and I would just do riyaz. And I would just sometimes just sing, or just even do what we call mental riyaz, you know, just like focusing on the depth of music, just the notes and the tanpura sound going on in the background and that really helped my musical growth. And then gradually, students increased and because of students increasing, a few of them became good friends. So they began helping in certain situations you know, and then when my parents came to the US in 2005, I had already developed a good group of friends who are also students. So when my parents needed to go somewhere, like if they had to buy some grocery, and all that they would help. So it was like a family that developed basically and till date, all those friends are like my extended family here in New Jersey. Of course, I'm not living in New Jersey anymore. I'm in Denver, Colorado.
So the early years was essentially teaching and training people to become musicians.
Yes and also performing. They would also arrange for a few performances so that people would know me. And they would basically market me saying that hey, you know, we have this person teaching Hindustani music and he's also ready for performances. So that's how performance has also started to happen.
So you perform only Hindustani classical music or you also sing Bollywood and ghazals and that kind of stuff?
Oh, yes yes, I do. So I do Hindustani classical music. I do bhajans, ghazals, Bollywood songs, mostly old Bollywood songs, not the newer ones. And then I do music in other languages also like Marathi mainly, and then ventured into a little bit of Bengali music just recently. And Malayalam, of course, is my mother tongue. I don't sing many Malayalam songs but I sing in Malayalam. So different languages, but mainly versions of bhajans, ghazals, Bollywood, and Marathi.
And your singing in concerts, is it restricted to New Jersey, New York, that area or you travel across the US?
Oh, yeah, across the US. In fact, this week I'll be again going to New Jersey from Colorado, and I have gone to Florida. I've gone to many states in the US for performances over the last 19 years, and many a times I have to tell people that, you know, do not hesitate to call me just because I'm visually impaired because I can travel very very easily. And I love traveling. And then they realized that and when they see me going there, they feel happy about it.
So your audiences are essentially Indians or you have international audience?
Some of them. In fact, in some of the ghazal concerts and Bollywood concerts, I have heard people tell me later on that, you know, a few Americans also got tickets and came so you know, believe me, they come there. And I'm told that they would not budge from their place. More than the Indian audiences, they are more attentive even if they don't understand a word of it. But they're just so attentive, and I think it's the power of our music. I don't think it's anything to do with us musicians. It's just the power of music and the magic of our Indian culture and music that has you know, just pervaded and conquered the world from years together, right. So yeah, it's really amazing to know when American audiences attend performances.
So 19 years is a long time. Did you kind of set up your own family while you were in New Jersey or you're still single?
Oh, no. So I got married in 2006. My wife, she's into IT. And we have a son 15 year old. He's also visually impaired but he's doing well. He's catching up. He's also into music, he loves singing. And, yeah, my wife really takes care of him, she really works hard. There was a period when she quit her job, just to make sure that she could be with him and take care of him.
I'm curious to know, how did you actually meet up with your wife meaning was she a student of yours or a neighbor, or a friend of a friend?
So in 2005, my father put an ad in the paper, and many people responded, and then one of them was my wife's sister. And when she responded, and my father spoke to her, and then my father spoke to my wife. So apparently, my wife was initially not really interested. So they did not tell her that they were putting an ad and that they were responding and all that. So she met my parents initially in Bangalore, and then we talked and then the people over here who started the music school, like I mentioned, their main job was running an IT consulting company. So they said that they will bring her on their H-1B. Now, of course, that took a long time because the consulate in Chennai, which is where my wife went foot stamping, they will not reject her application, but they will not accept either. So they would keep on asking for documents and it took a long time. But then finally she came. And then in January 2006, we got married and she worked in the IT and then after five six years when our son was about five or six, she quit her job so that she can be taken care of him. Now of course, she's again working in IT. But yeah it was a proper arranged marriage.
Yeah, so no story of a friend of a friend and no romance nothing.
No no no.
You shifted to Denver, Colorado. What exactly do you do at Colorado, Denver rather?
So in 2015, we started our own music school, meaning my wife and me. We both started our own music school called the Swarras School of Music.
Right.
And then we have our website called swar-ras.com SWAR dash RAS dot com. And so until 2018, when we were in New Jersey people would come to our house for learning music. And then in 2018, we shifted to Pennsylvania. That is another state in the US. And again, all the shifting we did was for our son's sake to make sure that he gets the right school. Because although there are facilities available in the US, but then it's very important. See, people have this notion that oh US meaning wow, amazing facilities this and that, but then nobody realizes that every place has its own challenges. So however good the facilities may be. But there are so many other challenges in the US that are not there in India. For example, just to do your daily chores. We don't have any bais or anything here. Everything has been done by ourselves. That can be pretty intimidating and time consuming along with taking care of so many other fronts. So in 2018, we shifted to Pennsylvania, but then even there, we were not that happy with the school and fortunately, in 2021, the school in Colorado they were good enough to accept our son because along with blindness, he has some other developmental delays. We were trying in many other blind schools, but they would not accept him because he had those delays. But then the school was in good enough. That is how we had to make this huge move because Pennsylvania to Colorado was a big move, because it's almost going from one side of the country to the other side of the country. We did that in 2021 but when we moved to Pennsylvania, and now when we move to Colorado, the good thing is that all my classes are still continuing online. So even before COVID happened, I had already begun my classes through online medium. So when COVID came, it was nothing new for me. In fact, it actually increased the number of students because many guys were sitting at home, and they thought that they could do something like music. So yeah, so that's what I do. So we run our own music school. And in fact, my wife said that, you know, now that you're settled, you take care of your school. So now, I'm like the sole proprietor of the school. So I do online classes from here all over the world. And fortunately, older students have been retained, newer students have joined. So you know, by God's grace, going good.
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When somebody joins you as a beginner, normally, how long does he does he or she stick around before he or she feels that they are independent, and they can go on their own?
It actually depends on how much hard work they put in. Now, I have students who are with me for like, more than 10 years, and then now they're slowly performing independently and you know, teaching also. So it's a good feeling when they do that. You know, when they tell me that I have begun teaching basics to kids and adults who just want to learn the basics of music. So it feels good when they told me that, you know, they performed here and everybody appreciated. So that's a good feeling. And again, you know, when we started the music school, we never had this idea that we have to produce artists. Our goal was to produce appreciators, so people should really appreciate the efforts of people who are actually doing music. And you know, really develop the habit of listening to music, especially our classical music, and really appreciate the fact that how much effort goes into this kind of music.
You know, when you were growing up and you were learning music, what was your aspiration? You wanted to become a star, or you wanted to become a professional to earn your livelihood from music?
So, honestly, I didn't think about it like that. I just thought that no, I want to learn music. And I wanted to be known as what I thought initially. And then obviously because of that, and see in our family, there was nobody in music at all. So the obvious thing is parents would want me to apply for singing in movies. And that's the reason why my father took voluntary retirement from his job in Reserve bank, so that he can go with me to music directors. And, you know, the irony was he retired in 1995. From 1995 to 2004, until I went to the US, we went to so many places, so many music directors. They would take your cassette, at that time, you had cassette. So, you know, I would have my music recorded, just keep it in their office and then they would just call me. They would call you at seven and they would make you wait for two hours there and they would come at nine and would just speak with you for five minutes. And they would just praise you wow, amazing. We will have you in our next project and all that but the next project could never come. So, yeah but like I said, the irony was in 2004, march 6 seventh to the US and on March 4, I get a call from this Marathi music director's office saying that you know, we have a recording on March 6, and we are looking for a new voice probably they must have had my cassette in the database. You know, they keep looking for new singers, you know and they keep collecting cassettes. But the recording was in March 6. So I said you know, unfortunately I'm not available because I'll be gone to the US but my mind I was thinking gosh, I tried for so many years and you know nothing happened and then when I'm going to the US the opportunity to sing in films comes so then that means I knew that you know, this was not for me.
So Manoj, would you like to just sing a few lines of any of your favorite songs in closing?
Oh great. Let me sing this song, I mean, the song that first came to my mind was this romantic song which everybody knows and that's why I think I would like to just sing a couple of lines of this. I would start from the stanza. So I'm sure people will be able to guess the song immediately.
Sure
*sings Chaudhvin Ka Chand*
Wonderful, wonderful! Manoj, great talking to you. Thank you for taking the time. Wish you the very best.
Thank you so much for this wonderful opportunity!
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