Hey, fixers. I'm Dr Jeanette Benigas, the owner of fix SLP, a grassroots advocacy firm here to challenge the status quo in speech language pathology by driving real change from insurance regulations to removing barriers that prevent full autonomy like the CCC, this podcast is your space to learn, engage and take action in the field of speech language pathology. We don't wait for change. We make it so let's fix SLP!
The Fix SLP podcast is a space for open and insightful discussions about speech language pathology and related topics, while we aim to inform and inspire, the content of our episode today reflects the opinions, experiences and perspectives from myself, Jeanette and my guest, we're discussing the Broadway production and movie wicked to draw parallels between ASHA and SPA, hopefully to make our discussions more engaging, these references are for illustrative purposes and may stir up some feelings within you. We invite you to sit and reflect on what you're hearing and know there is not judgment from us surrounding how you identify. We are all doing amazing work, and we are here for the same reasons.
Hey everybody, welcome back. It's Jeanette. I've said this before. I'm a little bit of a theater nerd. I'm really into musical theater. I do have a background in theater. Had theater training for quite a few years when I was younger, and so today, I am really excited to do this podcast. We have Niall Taylor from Australia. So if, if you're, if you don't like theater, if anything, you should hang out just to listen to his accent, because it is amazing. But we've got Niall here. He is going to talk to us about wicked and the similarities that we found out we both saw to ASHA and SPA, which is in Australia, and yeah, just some of the similarities to fearless fixers and SLPs. So I'm gonna let him tell you about himself, and we're just gonna jump in. So Niall, welcome to the Fix SLP podcast.
Thank
Thank you. It's lovely to be here. I have been a listener, so I've been aware of what you've been talking about, and kind of helped me with the work that I've been doing here in Australia. So I'm a speech pathologist based in Australia. I'm currently living in Melbourne, working at a pediatric hospital here. I used to be in Western Australia, but I'm over here for a short contract to help develop a service. I also work privately as well. People can find me on Instagram and my posts. I have made a post about wicked and the similarities so people can find me @the.nbsp. That's an abbreviation for non binary speech pathologist. Yeah. Happy, happy to be here.
I'm gonna assume, take some assumptions here. Most SLPs in the US don't know a lot about being an SLP in Australia, or about who governs you or controls you or regulates you over there. So do you want to tell us a little bit about that so we can just have some touch points as we're talking about both today and your post.
Sure, absolutely, really good question as well. There are some, I guess, changes that may happen. So there's currently a review around how healthcare is regulated in Australia. But currently, what's in place? We have the national registration and accreditation scheme. Are you similar to the US. Each state sets their own laws around around healthcare and healthcare regulation. But what's happened in Australia is that all the states have agreed on this national scheme, and so they've all had to pass legislation that's all the same. That creates this scheme. The agency that oversees this scheme is called the Australian Health Professional Regulation agency, and that's where people would become registered if their healthcare profession is a registered profession. Unfortunately, speech pathology isn't one of those professions that need to be registered in Australia, and so we fall outside of that scope. And so technically, we are a profession that does not require registration. Because of that, there was this push of, well, there needs to be something to stop people in any healthcare profession that doesn't come under that registration scheme of practicing if they are a danger to the public. So each state has created something to fill that gap, and that's the national code of conduct for healthcare workers. And it's kind of an opposite so rather than a "you need to be registered," it's more of a it's a free kind of "you can practice in that area," as long as you follow this code of conduct. Doesn't matter what area of healthcare, you know, massage therapist, you need to follow these key things, and if you have been shown to violate the code, then this statutory authority can create prohibition orders so there's an investigation and you are in breach of the code, then they can stop you from practicing in that state. The agreement amongst the states is that a prohibition in one state is valid for all states, and so it has a national effect. So that's been put in place. All speech pathologists need to follow this national code of conduct. So similar to the US, we've got something equivalent to usher we've got SPA, Speech Pathology Australia. They're a membership organization for speech pathologists, but they also do provide a certification product, and that's where you agree to certain requirements so that you you've got a degree in speech language pathology, you've done some key learning modules that they require for some people to do as their minimum, and then you declare that you meet those requirements, and you pay a fee so they don't check there's no application. It's kind of like a yep, I promise that I've done that stuff, and here's the money. Now they do do audit. So they do each year audit 5% of those people. Sometimes it's the same people each year. Some people have never been audited. So for most people, it's a yeah, I'll say I've done all that. I'll pay my money, and then when they ask me to provide my stuff, I'll get my stuff together, and then I'll send it. So for a lot of people, there's a lot of panic. It's very interesting when, when that time comes around, you notice on Facebook and other social media or just private messages, people being like, I've been asked to be audited. How am I supposed to prove that I've done all this stuff? What can I put down kind of thing? So that's where things are at. Now, certification is required for certain funding. So if you want Medicare rebates for your clients, you need a Medicare number. And the only way the government can basically go, Yeah, you're qualified. Because they won't. They don't have a system to themselves. So they go, Well, we'll, we'll recognize this certification product through SPA as a ticket of approval. So that's their way of kind of outsourcing that check that you actually have a degree and you're qualified. So you do have to purchase this product if you want Medicare funding, if you want private health insurance funding, National Disability Insurance Scheme funding. The interesting thing, though, is that that's usually for private practitioners. So people who work for government departments, so in public hospitals, in schools, generally don't, don't become members or certified with SPA, because it's not a legal requirement, and those departments usually set their own standards around care and what you should have. That's the current landscape, but it is being investigated on whether or not this should be mandatory in some form. But there is a strong feeling of strengthening self regulation rather than pursuing a statutory regulatory system.
Our fearless fixers cannot see my reactions here. The first thing that went through my head was, if we thought that ASHA was a money grab, you just attest to it. Like, yeah, I did that. Could SPA be more of a money grab with that certification? Like, give us your money. We'll believe you. So to clarify, like for us, every state in the United States has a state license that we all have to have to practice. There is no state in the US where you can practice without a license, which makes that certificate of clinical competence, which we have, very redundant, because in every state, almost except for North Dakota and Hawaii, the requirements are exactly the same or harder. In the States, it doesn't sound like you guys have anything like that. It is really only just that certification from SPA, right?
Yeah.
Yeah. So there is one thing that's come in because of that gap. So say someone loses their certification, right? Because there's an ethical breaches is serious that doesn't stop the person from practicing profession, it just stops them from being eligible to have that certification product, and there's really no way of knowing unless someone knows that SPA exists and whether they require the certification product of you to be able to show that you're eligible. So a lot of employers will say you need to be eligible rather than... so you meet all the requirements, you promise, but you don't have to pay your $600 yearly fee kind of thing. And this is creating a system that's confused people, because then people having like, well, what am I supposed to follow, and who do I report to? And so the statutory authority say it's a legal requirement to report people to this statutory authority. Any complaint should go there first and then, if someone is with a membership body, they will liaise with a membership body themselves as part of the investigation. SPA, on the other hand, tells speech pathologists that any complaint should go to spa for any speech pathologist that has certification or membership which is not in line with what is kind of legally required.
Makes me tired. But listen, I am trying to find very creative ways to pay the team so we can, like, keep going hard, and it sounds like you guys need a fix. SLP, Australia edition, so if you all want to get together and hire us to consult with you, we will help you take it down.
Yep, sounds great.
All right, let's talk about Wicked, because that's why you're here. I mean, this is, I didn't expect to be so interested in all of this, I feel like I can keep talking to you about this for a while, but we're here for another reason, and I want to make sure we have enough time so we both saw wicked we both, it seems like, saw similarities to our profession and SPA and ASHA. And just for full transparency for the audience, we haven't discussed these. So I'm going to be interested in seeing if we've thought the same things too. Tell me what was on your mind when you saw this.
So I guess going back to your first comment about people liking theater, I am one of those ones that I'm not a fan, especially musical theaters, but my partner loves musical theaters, and has been in musical theaters. So I was invited to attend the Wicked musical because it's, it's it's happening currently in Australia, and it just so happens to be the same time that the movie was happening. And so I asked people, what should be good to see first? Should I see the movie first? Then the musical? And everyone's recommended, go see the musical and then follow up with the movie, so tag along with my partner and friends to the musical. And there were some moments where I just felt like I could really, really relate in some ways. And it just felt like it was this, this allegory for the speech pathology profession. And then when I saw the movie like it, just took it to that next level. There's obviously so much more detail in the movie compared to the musical, and feeling similar to Elphaba in many ways, recognizing other people that would potentially feel similar to Elphaba. In many ways, seeing Glinda and who Glinda would represent within the profession, you know, attending university there, how they both got in that situation, the interaction, meeting each other for the first time, having a university you know, Professor, lecturer, kind of bring someone along their side and want to train them because they can see their skill. And then to see this, this character that you know all is that you don't see, and no one really sees right, but you look up to right, and an Elphaba look looks up to and, know, one day, hoping to meet this thing and to go to the Emerald City, but then to finally meet this person and see it for what it really is, and then decide to kind of turn away from that. Yeah, it was really emotional for me. I know a lot of people are emotional with wicked, right? Because there's a lot, there's a lot in Wicked, but for me, it just, especially with just being in this profession, so I could think about it, just every moment I was like, This is what I see in speech was in speech pathology. And so afterwards, like, I just looked at my partner and and, you know, they were very teary, and they get quite emotional with wicked just and they have their own reactions for different reasons. And I kind of said how mine just reminded me of speech pathology. And they just said, I I can see that, because I complain a lot about different things. And so they could, they could understand. So it kind of gave me this time to afterwards, just sit and reflect on the characters and who these characters might represent. And so that's why I created that post around who Elphaba might be in general, who Glinda might be in general, who the oz might, you know, the Wizard of Oz might be. So I put that on Instagram. I will be honest, I was a little bit reluctant, just because I know that this is a tough topic for a lot of people about the profession we're all in it for the right reasons. Obviously, no one's decided to have a huge university debt for bad reasons, like we're all here because we want to help people with their communication, with their swallowing, but we're all coming from a different angle, and how we think it should be done, right, and also how the profession should be regulated. And I think that's what makes wicked such a great story, to speak mythology, is it really shows that defying gravity, it's at the end of the movie, and that's why, yeah, leaving it just felt so impactful because it was also the end, but also all the lyrics just feel very spot on. So it starts off with Glinda saying, Elphaba, why couldn't you have stayed calm for once instead of flying off the handle? I hope you're happy. I hope you're happy now, if you're happy now that you've hurt your cause forever. And I hope you think you're clever, and if we think about what's just happened before, Elphaba has just met Oz, looked up to Oz, but has realized he actually isn't a wizard at all. He has no power, and the way that he's had his power is kind of through that manipulation and smoke and mirrors kind of thing, right? So he seems big and almighty, but it's all just through the way that that you interact with people, and after discovering that Elphaba, realizes, why have I looked up to you? Why have I thought you're this thing that could teach me all these things and something to aspire to be when that's not who you really are? You're a con artist, right? And has gone, you know, I need to challenge this, because the reason why Elphaba is there as well is because of what's happening to the animals and the silencing of the animals. And so she feels like I need to do something, and maybe that, maybe the wizard is going to help me, and then finding out that actually it's the wizard that's causing these issues in the first place? Yeah, she, she's like, I can't, I can't do this anymore, right? So she has flown off the handles, and she's like, that's it. I'm not. I can't be a part of this, and I need to expose you. And I feel like this is really similar to some speech pathologists with SPA and ASHA, where I looked up to SPA when I first started as a student, and this was when SPA, you know, its certification product wasn't really something on most people's radar. Um, it's really only happened in my my career that's gotten to a point where these requirements have been necessary to kind of have certification for certain funding. So like Elphaba, but I looked up to to SPA, next to Oz as this thing that, you know, everyone should be registered. Everyone should be certified. Because, if not, you know, people can just go rogue and say they're speech pathologist. Where's the accountability, right? But then, after being SPA for so long, and being part of communities and working with SPA and all the things that I have seen and the things that have been stopped, I realized that, like what the wizard was doing was kind of working, actually against the profession. It wasn't really helping create what we were looking for, and kind of stopping that process. And so I've had many people being very similar to Elphaba, to Glinda, sorry, say to me, why have you flown off the handle? Like, I hope you're happy, like you've hurt your cause forever, like, this isn't going to work. Why can't you just be like the rest of us, we all feel the same as you. Niall like, yes, bar isn't perfect, but why do you have to try and do something different? You're not helping your cause, and I think it's very slim to, you know, fix. SLP, you guys are Elphaba Right? Like, you're like, let's change this. Let's look at what the states are doing and look at those laws there. And I'm sure you've had plenty of people say to Fix SLP, like, I hope you're happy. Like you're hurting your cause.
I'm tearing up. And you can't see that, and our listeners can't see that, but I I can't. It is so much deeper than that that I've not shared before, and I will share now. I told you I very much related to all of this, and I hope you're happy now. I hope you know you're happy because you've hurt your cause forever. A year ago, December, the American Speech Language and Hearing Association Convention had just happened in November, Fix SLP went SLP viral out of the gate, and we were gaining a lot of momentum. We really didn't take off until February, when ASHA raised their rates. So it was before that rate hike, and I got an email from my mentor. She has since passed away, very unexpectedly, but at that time, very much respected what she had to say to me, and she was always a bit of a rule breaker too, but I knew deep down that she probably wasn't a fan of what I was doing with Fix SLP, and she pretty much told me that I was hurting my career and that I needed to stop what I was doing. I'm sure she got approached, and she probably had no idea, because she wasn't really that involved in social media, and so that's what she said to me in the email, I'm not even sure what you're doing, and perhaps after the holidays, we should have a conversation about it, and that hurt, that hurt me a lot, because she was someone that I looked up to, but also, kind of like you said, the things that I've seen happen in this field, the knowledge that I have from being a professor in academia and seeing what goes on behind the scenes, and still all this time, still practicing as a clinician and and being a part of that sisterhood, brotherhood kind of thing too, where there's a very big divide between academics and clinicians, and I'm kind of right in the middle, and I can see all of it. I can't not call it out like it's in me I can't not help improve this. And I really had to come to a point where I thought, you know, it has been over a decade since I graduated with my PhD, and while I am so thankful for the training and mentorship that I got from her, it is time for me to put a stake in the ground in my own way, and I did that with my research and my dissertation and my publications and my book and all of these things. You know, she had a very heavy hand in the ideas and the development, and I think maybe that's why I never continued it. While I love talking about my specialization and what I do, this was something that I felt so much more passionate about. And again, it was in me. I can't not do it. I just had to come to a place where I was at peace with she might be mad at me, but I have to do what's in me and true to me. One of my biggest regrets is we didn't talk again after that, and then she passed away, and so probably I'm going to start crying now. It makes me very upset that potentially she died, being disappointed in me, because the last thing I want to do is disappoint people, but especially my mentor and my friend and the person who is responsible for me even sitting here and having this conversation with you in the first place, I strongly believe that if I wasn't a PhD holder who has had a lot of opportunity at the beginning of my career, probably because of who My mentor was, I think it is because of her that I am right now, where I am, and so it just, it hurts a lot to know that she died without us ever having that conversation. Anyway. Yeah, I was crying in the movie. I'm crying now. It's so much deeper than I think you even thought, where it was like you have to, you can't do this like you have to stop. You're ruining your your reputation, and you have all the ability in the world to be a leader in this field, and you're never going to get that if you keep doing what you're doing. Is pretty much what she told me.
And that's exactly what these, these next parts in in the song say. So then Elphaba goes back, and it's like, Well, I hope you're happy. I hope you're happy too. I hope you're proud how you would grovel in submission to feed your own ambition. And so Elphaba is going back being like, what? Well, actually, no, like, I feel what I'm doing is the better option. I feel justified in, in stepping back, stepping away from this thing, and then this is what I think is quite lovely, because I don't think we all get this moment is they both sing together. So though I can't imagine how, I hope you're happy right now, and I think it's such a sweet moment, because there's a friendship that they have, and even I'm getting emotional right now, where at least they have a moment where, while they don't agree with how each of them are going about this, they still are wishing each other happiness and hoping that this is actually what they really want to do, like they don't want them to feel like they've made a mistake or make any regrets. I think that's really beautiful in this, and it's something that I think, as speech pathologists, we can give to each other, and we're able to give to each other is recognizing, I have had these moments where people go I see what you're doing and I understand what you're doing, and I'm going to go this way. You can go that way, and I'm going to be here. But there's also people who I haven't had those moments with. They are, I hope you're happy now, and you've got your course forever, and I can't have anything to do with you because that would look bad, and I don't agree with what you're doing. And I think that's a really lovely moment that they have. Is they say they can't imagine how, but they still hope that that is happiness. And then Glinda, straight after, again, asks Elphie, listen to me just say you're sorry. You can still be with the wizard. What you've worked and waited for. You can have all you ever wanted. And it's that bit like, like you just said, right, yeah, you've had all this stuff, right? Where it's like, yeah, people have gone, this is an amazing person, and I've been part of SPA communities, and the input that I've tried to have, and people have said to me afterwards, like, don't leave SPA and still make things work. Just say you're sorry. You can you can be with it. You can still be with SPA. You can still be part of this soul. You can be part of this group. And what you've worked for. You go against them. You might not make it through. You know, people might not want to be associated with you. People might not want to touch you. Think of your career. Do you really want to do this? And in fact, there's that final plea. But then before Elphaba says, I know, but I don't want it. And then she corrects herself, no, I can't want it anymore. And I think this is something for those who don't understand us, it's really important to reflect that it isn't that we don't want this, if we can't want it, there's this feeling inside of what we've seen, and this this sense of justice and feeling like we can't let this go, like it's not that we don't want to be part of this anymore. And it's just this personal thing for me. It's this internal thing where I struggled for many years of just continuing and continuing, and it got to a point where I was like, if I continued fighting within style, I'm not going to make it like, I'm going to leave the profession, like my mental health, like just a lot of things. And leaving was the best thing that I've done. It's been hard for my career. It means that there's certain jobs that I can't go for anymore, like I get these offers and I have to say I'm not eligible because you want me to have certification, and they've even said we'll pay for the certification. And I said, That's not the point. From an ethical standpoint, I cannot support a system that is actively looking at preserving itself. It's more interested in preserving its existence than willing for its existence to die knowing that speech pathologists are better off. It doesn't want to make that sacrifice. And so that point I was I was again emotional. I was like, it is, it is. I can't want it anymore. This isn't, this isn't an active choice. This is something that I'm driven to do, and so elder says something has changed within me. Something is not the same. I'm through with playing by the rules of someone else's game. Too late for second guessing, too late to go back to sleep. It's time to trust my instincts, close my eyes and leave. And I had this moment too, where I was like, do I not renew? Do I renew? Like, what do I do? And just all those points, I was no longer second guessing myself. I had been doing that for years. It's too late to go back to sleep like I have seen so much I've been told so much about what has happened internally that a lot of people aren't privy to, and that instinct of justice and fighting for what's right just... just came up. And so this is the next part that I that I really love, which is the main part, which defines the song, right? Is it's time to try defying gravity. I'll think, I'll try defying gravity, and you can't pull me down. And if we think about what gravity is, right, it's, it's this force that keeps us on the earth. And you can jump right, you can go in the opposite direction of gravity, but you can't defy it. You will always come back down. No matter how hard you try and jump, you'll come back down. And I think this is what makes the Glindas in our profession support the system, right? Is SPA and ASHA look like gravity. It's like you can't defy gravity. You can't not come back down to earth like sure, I can see that you're jumping, but you're going to come back down sooner or later. And you might be able to jump higher than someone else, you know, be able to be off the earth a little bit longer, but you're going to have to come back down eventually, unless you're going to completely leave the earth and go into outer space and leave a profession, and so this thing of, well, I'm going to defy gravity, I'm not going to come back down, and I'm not going to let people try and make me come back down. You're not going to pull me back down. I think a lot of people struggle to see what Fix SLP or myself might be doing in Austalia because it's like, you can't buy gravity. Like, what are you doing? There's no alternative, right? There's no alternative.
In the US. There is the alternative is the state license.
Exactly, exactly.
I get it for you guys. For us, there is, but that gravity has so much control and it holds us down, right? That it is so hard to try to defy it that why would you be crazy enough to try? And even in that for me and my situation, I was in academia, which is like gravity plus gravity equals a lot of gravity, right? Like it's...
Yeah, yeah yeah...
It is a system within a system controlled by a system and all of these levels of bureaucracy. And why would you try to defy it? And I knew, when I started Fix SLP, exactly what I was doing, and I knew my job might be on the line, and I knew that my colleagues weren't going to receive me well, and they didn't. I've seen too many things, and I'm disgusted. I am disgusted at what I see these university programs doing just to get clinicians out, just to keep their accreditation, just so they don't have to list that they didn't kick someone out of their program for not getting good enough grades that really have no business being speech pathologist, but we're going to pass them through so we don't have to report that. Like, I just was disgusted. Everything needs an overhaul, and I'm not. I'm not going to be complicit to this anymore. I can't, I can't. It's like, that's the too late for a second guessing, too late to go back to sleep. My eyes are wide open. After a decade of academia. I cannot do this because it is not right and it is not in me to sit down and shut up. I was born with a loud mouth, and I found the place that I it needs directed to, like I was built for this. I can't not do it, and I knew you're not going to make as much money. Things are going to get hard, but I'm going to try. I'm going to try. And probably, yeah, at least for the next 20 plus years, I've probably ruined my career in academia, but I don't really want to be there anyway. And maybe there might come a time in 30 years from now when I'm retired, or whatever, or close to retirement, that perhaps there will be a day where people recognize me as that Trailblazer that ASHA recognized me as out of the gate. But for right now, and I'm sure you're getting this to this in the lyrics right now I'm being demonized. I am the bad guy, right? Kind of like they did to Elphaba. I'm the problem. But I think that might change eventually, at least I hope it will. But, yeah.
Yeah. So then Glinda comes in again, and so she's already been like, I hope you're happy, right? And then it's like, you know, just, just say you're sorry. And now that Elphaba is like, you know what? Stop this whole thing. I'm gonna, I'm gonna try to find gravity. Glinda comes back in being like, You're crazy. So she's like, can I make you understand you're having delusions of grandeur? So it's like, okay, it's one thing to just be like, I'm out. I'm leaving the profession, right? But to say that there's, there's this alternative that you can, like, defy gravity, you can, like, pull away from all this. You're crazy. Like, what's going on, right? And so then Elphaba says, I'm through accepting limits because someone says they're so some things I cannot change, but till I try, I'll never know. And I think this is where yourself, you know, Fix SLP and and some of us in in Australia, it's like, well, everyone says SPA is your only option. There is nothing else. It's like, I'm through with accepting that limit. Who says that we have to put up with SPA? There's plenty of people that I know who are like, don't like SPA, but I have the certification because it's necessary, and I deal with it. Now, for me, it's like, why? Like asking that question, why should we deal with it? Right? Like, why do we why should we accept the status quo? And okay, maybe we cannot change it, but until I try, I'll never know that there isn't an alternative. And so that work of states have things in place. Why aren't we looking towards that? Why aren't we strengthening that? Why aren't we encouraging people to understand that that's actually the only the requirements, and that there is alternatives, there is something that we can work towards. Then there's this part where she says, too long, I've been afraid of losing love, I guess I've lost Well, if that's love, it comes at too high cost. I'd sooner buy defying gravity. Kiss Me Goodbye. I'm defying gravity, and you can't pull me down. So for her, it's like this is happening. I've got nothing else to lose. I rather give this, this a go. This is the part that I'm hoping is happening with fixes lp. And that's where Elphaba pleas and says, Glinda, come with me. Think of what we could do together. And then that's when they sing. You know, unlimited together. We're unlimited together will be the greatest team has ever been. Glinda dreams the way we've planned them. Glinda says, If we work in tandem and then together, there's no fight we cannot win, just you and I defying gravity, with you and I defying gravity, they'll never bring us down. And this is the moment where they come back in their friendship, realizing that prior to all of this that's happened, prior to meeting the Oz and finding out who the wizard really is, they had all these dreams of what they would do together, and this excitement, right of this is going to be an amazing thing that we can put together, and thinking that the wizard was going to be a part of that journey, and being like, well, actually, maybe, maybe we could still be doing all that, like, if we just stick together, we could still overcome this and realizing that together, think things can change together. We're unlimited together, we can actually create change. And this is the crucial moment where they both have to decide, are they Joining Forces and are they going to create change, or will they both stay? Or will one stay in one go? And so then this is the moment where Elphaba asks, well, are you coming? This is your chance, right? This is your chance to join me and help fix things like we can do this together. I can't do this by myself and with you, we've got a fighting chance. Like Glinda says. I hope you're happy now that you're choosing this. And that's when Elphaba realizes she won't be joining her, and she says, you too. I hope it brings you to this. And so this is the part where they separate, and they realize that they're on different paths, but they're still wishing each other well in the path that they chose, knowing that the impact it's going to have on their relationship as well. And I think we've all had these moments in in the profession where there's been disagreements with various things. It might not be about regulation of the profession, it could be clinical, whole range of things, but I'm sure we've all had these moments where that person's not coming along with us anymore, and we're having to wish them well, and then they both sing. I really hope you get it and you don't live to regret it. I hope you're happy in the end. I hope you're happy in my friend, this is where it takes a real turn, where, if the realization is set in, they now both understand each other's points, their options, what they could do, and they've made their choice, and this is where their worlds basically move off in different directions.
When I saw this in the theater, this wasn't part of my thought process, because it hadn't happened yet, but it's something that Fix SLP is going through right now. Together, we're unlimited. Together, we'll be the greatest team there's ever been. Since the beginning of this movement, we have really been a champion for the state membership associations that we really feel like there's a lot of power there and a lot of ability to get things done at the state level, where really the profession is operating, unlike Australia, really a lot happens within the states that are very specific to the state regulations, requirements, reimbursement from health care insurance entities, things like that, case load caps, laws surrounding contract therapy companies. A lot of this actually does have to get done at the state level. And the invitation was out there, come on the podcast, and they declined. The tide is turning, I think, and they're starting to reach out to us now. Do they want to collaborate? No, they don't. Do they want me to talk about who they are? No, they don't. And I will always keep people who want to remain anonymous anonymous. But it's further than we were a year ago, right? They're not saying, Go your own way. Maybe a year from now, we will come together a little bit, or maybe there will be some collaboration, Because together, we could be a great team, a great champion for states, because states are struggling, but maybe the tides. Turning now a little bit.
I'm looking forward to this part. This is something about this part that I love, right? It's so inspiring. This is the part where there's that little conversation of, no, no, you know, she's not the one that you want, like, I'm the one, I'm the one. It's me, it's me, and then that nice long it's me. And so she says, so if you care to find me, look to the western sky. As someone told me, lately, everyone deserves the chance to fly. And if I'm flying solo, at least I'm flying free. To those who ground me, take a message back from me, tell them how I am defying gravity. I'm flying high, defying gravity, and soon I'll match them in renown. The reason why I find this so inspiring is she's obviously off on her on her broom, and saying, like, if you care to find me, look to the western star. Now, for me, this is very relatable, because I live in Western Australia. Well, I'm in Melbourne currently, but Western Australia is my home, and it's a very different world than speech pathology. That's what I've learned from now living in Melbourne. And so being in Western Australia, I didn't realize how disconnected I was from the beast that is SPA coming here. You can really feel its presence and its control. And in WA it's kind of, it doesn't really have a presence. So for me, look to the western side. It's kind of like me personally, that's where I am. If you need me, I'll be over there doing my own thing, but you know, Fix SLP, it'll be this is where we are, right? We're on Instagram, we have a podcast, right? So this is where to find us. As someone told me, lately, everyone deserves a chance to fly. That feeling of, okay, I might be free now. I might be flying. I'm very lucky in that I have a hospital job that it doesn't require certification. Other people are lucky that they have a hospital job or a department of education in a school they don't require it. But for a lot of people now, the majority of the work in speech pathology is in the community, working in the disability sector, using NDIS funds. And for a lot of people, that opportunity to fly, like us, to not be a part of Spa just isn't possible. If you're a new grad and you want a job, the job you're going to get is in the community doing Medicare, private health and NDIS related work. So this feeling of, everyone deserves the chance to fly like hoping that everyone, knowing that not everyone can do that right now, but hoping that everyone gets that chance in the future. And that feeling of, if I'm flying solo, at least, I'm flying free, that kind of liberation of, I know I'm doing it alone, like Glinda, you're not, you're not joining me, and that's okay, because I'm content in knowing that I'm doing what's what's right for me, at least, and starting there with the hope that other People can eventually join me. And those who want to join me want the chance to fly, look for the western sky. That's where I'll be, come and find me. And then that point of those who would ground me, those who want to pull me back in, those who want to stop me from doing what I'm doing. See, you know, seeing it as a threat, right? Take a message back from me saying to people, tell them I'm defying gravity. I don't need you. I'm doing this, and no matter what you do, you've got no control over me. I no longer have certification with SPA. What can SPA do to me now? There's nothing they can do, right? I'm following the national code of conduct. I'm following all the requirements of the hospital that I work for. I'm meeting all these standards so I don't need you. And if you want me to need you, there's nothing you can do that will make me feel like I have to need you in the future. And then that pointed and soon I'll match them in renown. That's not a boast of everyone's going to know me, right? It's a everyone's going to know me because they'll make sure to not be like me. I think that's something that people don't realize, is that's what comes with challenging these systems. Is that when a system is in a mode of self preservation, it will do anything it can to preserve itself, and that includes letting people know what not to do. And so some people know me for different reasons, but a lot of people will know me because of me, challenging SPA, questioning the things that we do as well in the profession, and so usually, if I'm known, I'm known because I'm an example of what happens when you challenge spa, right? And it's a, oh, you're doing this thing. Love your work, but like, you might not want to be associated with that, right? Because wo wants to challenge SPA? what? What might that do to my career and all that type of stuff. So that I'll match them in the renown is acknowledging people are going to know me, but not, not for the bright reasons they they're going to know me because they'll make sure people know me. And that's in that point of that movie, too, where they make that announcement, no, she's the Wicked Witch of the West. She's wicked. Don't trust her, right? Wanting people to not believe that there are issues within the system, that the system isn't actually helping the people, that it's actually creating issues for it to then be relevant, so that it exists. And that's what, that's what, that's what the Wizard of Oz says. He's like, people need something to unify them, and so we need this threat. And this threat is the talking animals. So this is what we're going to do, and we're going to be united, and it's going to be a stronger place. And that's, that's the price that we pay. And then she goes into and nobody in all of us, no wizard that there is or was is ever going to bring me down? And there's that confidence of I've made my choice. This is, I know this is what's going to happen. I'm doing all this. People are going to know about me, and I'm not going to let anyone or system that wants to preserve itself, to stop me from creating change that's for the good of the profession. And so that's why I look forward to this section of the song. One, because musically, I think it's amazing. And two, it's just it's inspiring to say, go and do the work. Be confident, but go ahead and do it. This is my favorite part. And then it obviously ends with that part of Glinda, then saying, I hope you're happy. I'm still wishing you know, seeing her fully go rogue. Take, take it all on, flying off to the west, doing her thing. While there's that in the background, you can hear them chant, look at her. She's wicked. Get her so already, you know the profession, the people of us are already seeing her as this thing that they shouldn't trust. And listen to, she's causing havoc. She's wicked, right? And I'm sure Fix SLP get that too. Where people I look at Fix SLP, they're rocking the boat. They're causing issues. They're stirring problems. We just need to work together. Why they doing this? And then Elphaba says, you bring me down. And they say, No one mourns the wicked, so we've got to bring her down. So there's this effort to bring her back down. We can't let you challenge this system. And I think that's because people are worried about because this system does have power, and it does do good things. It's not evil. It's not inherently evil. And that's another episode, another podcast might do is like, the point of wicked, right? Is that these characters are inherently good or bad. To say that someone is a Glinda isn't an insult. To say that someone is an Elphaba means that you know, they're they're always being picked on and hurt. But it's showing that these things are complex. It's not just as simple as people good or bad, it's we all have choices, and these choices have implications. And this system, while it does good, it's also doing bad, and people are wanting to change that bad. But the problem is that people are worried that if we address the bad, it might bring the system down, and then who's left to bring out the good? Right? Like, if there's no Wizard of Oz uniting the people in this world, then we might be divided again, and then we're back into those old times where things weren't as great as they were. So there's a reason why it's self preserving. There's a reason why we have a lot of glindas in the profession, because they understand that the status quo is currently working and it's comfortable, and it's not hurting them enough for them to feel what the health of this feel of we do need to step up. We do need to change. But the Glindas are like, that's a lot of work like and I'm more worried of the system collapsing rather than realizing maybe it's just about the system improving itself, and we can't improve the system until we recognize the bad part. But if you're not willing to acknowledge the bad, then this is where we are. And I think this is why we have these difficulties with ASHA with SPA, is that there is this internal thing of this is bad on our image. We can't look like a bad look like a bad organization. We've got a system that needs change. There are things that are wrong, and we are not willing to have a look at it. And so that's why we have Glindas. That's why we have Elphabas, because there's this wizard who's doing this stuff behind the scenes that most people aren't aware of.
We like to use the word modernization. That's really what maybe SPA and ASHA need. There's a place like you. Said there's a place for them here, but they have to modernize. And like you said, they're just so afraid of change and admitting there's things that are wrong that they just won't do it. Yeah, and it's that pushback that really, at least for ASHA, makes them look worse, makes them look bad. Clinicians in the US have all kinds of issues with ASHA, and we don't all have the same issue with ASHA, yeah, but at the end of the day, ASHA doesn't acknowledge or recognize any of it. They just stick their head in the stand and keep going with how they've always done it, and maybe that worked 70 years ago, what they were doing, but it doesn't work now, and I do think too, with some of these state associations that have reached out, who have communicated with us in one way or another, they see the problem, but won't go near collaborating with us, allowing us to mention their names. Again, that's fine. We are happy to collaborate and communicate in whatever manner we can get with the whatever information is shared with us, and we will always keep that to ourselves and use the information how we need to use it. But they don't speak up, even though they know, or some of them know what's going on behind the scenes. Where does that leave us? So now, what do we all do? How do we reconcile this?
I think this is where all of us, like, on both sides, whether you're Glinda or an Elphaba, I think we need to really similar, like, like I said with this song, right? Is they haven't destroyed their relationship. It's going to be tough. But, as they both said, I hope you're happy in the beginning. It was maybe a bit sarcastic, but as we get through the song, they actually really mean it. They actually go, I hope you're happy like I hope this is and I think no matter your approach to whether your your full ASHA or SPA, or whether you want to help change internally or externally, I think we still need to come together and support each other. We are fighting for the same thing. It's just that we have differing opinions on how that needs to happen. We're all for ethical practice, proper regulation, all these things, but differing views on Okay, should we just stick with the states? Should actually have a role. Should so I have a role all those things. And so I don't think we should be divided in our friendships and our interactions, like, we should still work with each other like, I don't think we should be being like, Oh well, this person's anti spaunty ASHA. We shouldn't have anything to do with them, right? There shouldn't be this fear of, what will this do to my career? So I hope we have those moments of, you know, of unity, where we wish each other happiness, in our in our approach, that we understand each other's approach, that we understand that all together, we are unlimited. We could make a lot of change, and we might not come together for certain things, and that's also okay. But I think this fighting, that we are quite divided, and I think that's really just around that worry, right? That worry of almost that social pressure, how will people perceive this? It should just be like when you go to look at publishing a paper, is you put something forward, and then it gets reviewed in this critiques, and then you kind of refine it. That should be for everything that we do. If someone's like, hey, maybe regulation should be like this. It shouldn't just be a that's ridiculous and you should never get dessert. You shouldn't publish that. It should be this review process where we're helping each other. Because, yeah, I've got some ideas fixed. SLP, have ideas, but they need to be refined, and coming from both sides can really help as well. So if we come to the discussion assuming that we're here for the right reasons, I think that helps, because then we're not going to misinterpret someone. If we're automatically thinking they're the enemy that you're fighting against us, we're going to interpret things in a negative light like, oh, they said this. That means that they're against us. That means that they're going to do this. But if we're actually go, I understand that they're trying to improve the system. This is what they're saying. I'm not going to read too much into it on face value, it sounds like this. If I need further understanding, I'm going to ask, I'm going to clarify, and maybe I've got some information that I can provide. Maybe I've got a perspective that might make this better. I think that's where we need to head, rather than this kind of backwards and forwards divided kind of situation. And we're living in a very politically divided world at the moment, and I think it's easy to get caught up in that and bring that into the profession. Healthcare is political, right? So it's hard to separate the two. It's definitely time for us to if we can to take a breath. Take time if you read something, don't comment straight away. Just read it, digest it, come back later. I think we just need to give ourselves some time. Give each other the benefit of the doubt. And I do that all the time, even though I know in my mind, this is what the majority of the professional like, and this is likely what's happening. I still have that moment of but I'm still going to give them the benefit of the doubt, because they deserve that, and we all deserve that.
I mean, what can I even say That's brilliant, true. It's true also, I think, maybe acknowledging, too, that at least the Elphaba doesn't have another agenda. I even saw that last night. I was on a social media platform, and there was a discussion about fix SLP, and I chose not to comment on any of it, but I did read all of it, and somebody said they seem to have another agenda. I just can't put my finger on what it is yet. How about you just take us at face value, where people that want to make change for the profession, and while you can't understand why we're doing what we're doing or or how we're doing what we're doing, or the choices that we're making, just take it at face value and support it or not, and then do what you want to do, but don't, don't try to undermine what we're doing by, like, calling into question that we must be awful people, because, like you said, Neither is inherently good or bad. We're not bad people, like I said, I'm feeling called to do this. I can't not do it. It is in me. It is bleeding out of me at this point. But that doesn't mean that I have another agenda. It doesn't mean that the folks who are making changes in their states have another agenda. Their agenda is to make change and make things better for themselves, their colleagues, the people they're serving, consumers, not everything has to be bad or good or, you know, it's, it's just a path we're choosing. So I think that's important to mention too, that like me saying to you, Well, what's your agenda? What's your other agenda? Why are you doing this in Australia? You know, it's, yeah, it's just because you've seen so much, and you feel it's part of your personality to do something about it. It doesn't mean you're bad or good. Just means you can't, not try to make this change.
If anyone's going to understand it should be speech pathologists, right? Because we understand that. What we should understand is that people aren't inherently good or bad, right? Like none of our clients are good people or bad people. It's their behavior, right? And the language that we use is, is always around saying that, Oh, it's not that they're a good boy because you did this. It's like, oh, you know, good talking good this, right? And all those types of things. So we come from a therapeutic perspective of it's the behavior we're focusing on, rather than the individual themselves. And I wish we applied the same to ourselves and to each other, in that we don't see each other as good or bad people. We have choices in our behavior, and those behaviors have ramifications. And I think that's the point of wicked is that Glinda isn't a bad person, because this is, you know, she did this, she she didn't go with Elphaba, right? She made her choice. And some people might say, Well, that was a bad choice, and some people might say that elder's choice was bad. But again, there's no kind of inherently good or bad, it's we all have behaviors, right? We will have actions, and those actions do result in things. And I think if we focus on each other's actions rather than the person, then we can actually fix stuff. I don't hate SPA or the people in SPA as much as a lot of people have come back to me and said, there's a lot of good people doing a lot of good things, and I agree. But SPA as an entity is thing that is made up of lots of people and a lot of people with different thoughts and opinions that all creates a particular action that this organization represents. I'm having issue with those actions. I'm not attacking people. I'm attacking SPA as an organization that has actions, and I dislike those actions. I have nothing against SPA as an organization and the people that are within it, and I understand why some people are Glindas and choose to be part of it, but I have an issue with the action, and so if I call out an action, people shouldn't feel like that's an attack on them. It's an attack on the action. If you did that action, it's still that action that I'm having issue with, because you could do a different action. You could do something differently, and I'm still not attacking you if you keep if you keep doing it, so I'll continue to call out that action and say that. People, I don't think that action is appropriate. I think that's the perspective that we can give each other grace on, is it's the action, it's not the person, and if we focus on that, then that's where we actually get changed. I can't change who you are. I can't change SPA unless everyone else agrees to a constitutional change. What I can do is I can get people to change the actions that they have, and that's where the change comes from. So if we focus on the actions, we can help do different actions, and then those different actions will actually create a system that looks better for all of us. And at the moment, I don't feel that's possible within that framework until other changes are made.
Think that's a good place to end such a good episode. I hope people understand what we were talking about. I hope people relate to it in their own ways. I'm excited to kind of hear the feedback from people on how did they relate to this movie, or if they saw the musical, and were there other people who thought about SLP and ASHA or SPA when they watched it? I'm dying to know, because we can't be the only two. I hope everybody shares that with us. Maybe we'll have some content too that we'll share this week, that'll give you a chance to tell us about your thoughts, please, especially if you're in Australia, and this is your first time listening to us, we would love a five star rating and review. It really helps new listeners find us, and especially now, at least in the US, as people are shutting down their social media and sort of walking away, we really still need a place for people to find us and engage with us, and those recommendations, the more five star ratings and reviews we have, the more will be recommended to other people. So please consider taking a minute to do that. And no, we're not going to read a reading no minivan meltdown this week. This was a long episode, so I'll just say, we'll see you next week, and thanks for fixing it!
