🐓Late Flower Feeding, Utilizing Fan Leaves, and Closed Loop Farming, with Touched by Cannabis

10:30AM Jan 29, 2025

Speakers:

Jordan River

Keywords:

natural farming

closed loop

Korean Natural Farming

hash class

traditional hash

cannabis cultivation

solventless processing

juicing cannabis

raising chickens

worm bins

fermented fruit

enhanced ripening

microbial inoculants

community cup

agro tourism

Greetings cultivators from around the world. Jordan River here. Back at you with more. Growcast, free range podcast, baby, today we have brand new guests on the show touched by cannabis. Is here. This is a husband and wife duo in the natural farming field, and they are incredible practitioners of KNF and closed loop farming. They're down here in Oklahoma. They're going to be speaking at our community cup. So they've dropped by to talk about ferments and raising their own chickens and doing all sorts of cool stuff in the natural farming world. So before we get into it with touched by cannabis, quick shout out to Rimrock analytical. That's right. Rimrock analytical.com, code growcast to get you free shipping on your sex tests. Stop wasting time sexing your plants. Everybody. It is such a waste of space to grow them out and sex them. It's so confusing to clip them and clone them, and you try to keep your clones alive long enough to flower them, and then you're still two weeks behind. Nah. Forget all that. Get yourself a sex test when they are seedlings, when they're little babies. You snip off a little cotyledon, mail it into Rimrock, and they'll shoot you back the results like that. That is what you want to do. You save a ton of time. Rimrock analytical.com, code, grow, cast, you want to pop those regular seeds, but you got a low plant count. What you do is you go ahead and get yourself a sex test. You'll have your results back. Lickety split. I love Rimrock analytical. They send results out on a Sunday evening, if they get them in time, whenever they get them, you get them. Rimrockanalytical.com code growcast. Stop wasting time sex testing and enjoy those sex tests. Use code growcast for free shipping on your order and for orders 10 or more. Use code bulk 10 for 10% off@rimrockanalytical.com those codes stack everybody. Okay, let's get into it with touched by cannabis. Thank you for listening and enjoy the show. Hello, podcast listeners. You are now listening to grow cast. I'm your host, Jordan River, and I want to thank you for tuning in today, yet again, as always, before we get started, I urge you to share the show. Turn someone on to growing. Tell a grower about this show. Send out this episode, share this episode. I love it when the show spreads. The best thing you can do everyone and of course, find all the action, all the things we do at growcast podcast.com/action, there. You'll find the seeds in the membership in the classes. All the fun stuff is up there. Everybody today, we have two brand new guests. Very excited to be working with these folks at the community cup Oklahoma in May, and so much more. They are KNF experts. They're working on a hash class. They're all about natural farming, closed loop farming. Very excited to have today touched by cannabis and Mrs. Touched by cannabis on the line. How's it going? Guys, very good. How are you thank you for being here. Thank you both for being here. I'm a big fan of your work. I've been observing you guys making moves in the in the Oklahoma scene and beyond, really, really cool. What you're doing with the with the closed loop farming, the Korean Natural Farming, and the raising chickens. A lot of people are envious of that situation. That's the end game to a lot of this, and people aspire to do a lot of the things that you guys are doing. So I want to thank you for being here. I'm excited to have you, and maybe for the for the listeners who who haven't yet heard of touched by cannabis. Can you start with your story? What brought you to growing cannabis? What brought you to natural farming and to create this amazing educational brand that you now

have. Yeah, you bet. Thank you, Jordan. I appreciate you having us on and for giving us some time to spread the word on the the work that we're doing and and what we're looking forward to in the future. My name is Jace Rivera. Instagram is touched by cannabis, which it's kind of been disabled. Hopefully that'll come back online soon. But you can also find us at touch by cannabis.com I've been actually growing cannabis for 18 years. Cannabis has actually been in my family since the 1920s and 30s. My great grandfather grew cannabis to support our family through prohibition and the hard times through then. So it's really been in my family for multiple generations. I grew up with my grandparents told me about stories of running through my great grandfather's fields and taking stuff. So it's it's kind of been in my life for as long as I can remember, wow. So it's been a big journey to kind of go from, you know, growing in in closets and at home and to a commercial business now here in Oklahoma. We moved out here in Oklahoma in 2019 right after legalization. Happened here at that time, I was working for Lockheed Martin. I was a senior quality assurance engineer, and I had worked there for 18 years, so it was something I kind of did on the side from my day job. I was a primary caregiver. For children with cancer, and that was the the funnel to doing natural farming and how to do this cultivation better for patients, it was definitely patient focused. So 95% of my patients were terminal, and the oldest was 13 years old, so jeez, way worse state registered caregivers in Colorado. And it was one of those things that when you get into a community like children with cancer or what other ailments, you kind of find a lot of people looking for for answers that they don't generally come across. And so it really built up into education and teaching people who, you know, didn't know the the true benefits of the plan. It was a lot of the the stigma and that went around it. So a lot of education came to it, and it got to a point where I was maxed out on patients that I could be registered in Colorado, and then the laws changed where I could only grow 12 plants. It didn't matter how many patients I was registered to the state to grow for. I could only grow 12 plants in our county. So what ended up really happening was kind of cool, because then I ended up just teaching the people how to grow right and just process the products for them. So it was like it just kind of snowballed into a different thing, where it really established my educational background into this plant and focusing on a better way to do it. So it really turned out to be a cool thing. So in 2019 when we moved to Oklahoma, at that time, majority of our patients had passed away. There was only one that was still living. So, you know, we we really had an opportunity to treat this plan differently, where it was a quality of life for these children, and so it just changed the way that we approached the industry. And when we moved to Oklahoma, we had an opportunity with a company to start pushing and making some of the products that we do which are very unique in the method of application, and so we really focus on the non common methods of ingestion. So those were some of the things that we we worked with with children, was how we could get high dosages of acidic cannabinoids that were never decarboxylated into their system so they could get high amounts of the anti carcinogens and analgesics and anti inflammatory properties of it without any of the psychotropic effects, right? And so that was the option that we were looking to do here in Oklahoma. And unfortunately, businesses, businesses change, and things didn't quite pan out the way that they were were supposed to. And so it got to be one of those things where we've invested our entire life into the cultivation of this plant, and it took about two years in Oklahoma for us to get our own, our own residency. We kind of been through that loop of partnering with businesses and people and things just not working out. So we just decided to wait the two years out, and I provided some some advisement work for companies out here in Oklahoma, helping them get established and and get going, and that kind of carried us through to the point of last January where we were able to purchase 10 acres here in Oklahoma, where we have roughly 3000 square feet of building space, that we were able to get our own cultivation license and our own processing license on. So we've kind of gotten to the point that the dream that we had eight years ago has come to realization and fruition, that we have a small family farm with a beyond organic cultivation facility and solventless processing location we've been then the last year, we've done three classes at our property, teaching people from seed to harvest cultivation processes using Korean Natural Farming, Jadam natural farming and the nice process, which is a process I developed. We can talk about that, right?

Yeah, I think I remember that seeing, seeing stuff about that, yeah,

it's based out of Korea, natural farming, but it's crop specific for cannabis cultivation. So those are some of the things that we've been focusing on. And now that we actually have some some land. We've been expanding into doing raising chickens, just like you had mentioned, and we followed the natural farming process for that too. So we're kind of looking at, in the future, doing some agro tourism at our spot, where we can have maybe a small family or two that can come at a time and learn some of the processes of cultivating this medicine, as well as growing your own food and producing, wow, as much sustainable as possible. That is

so cool. It sounds like both of you are very medically oriented, medically focused. It's crazy that regulations pushed you out of that caregiver position, but you just pivoted, and now it's education. And along with education, it's hospitality. I love this idea of running the ranch, like, like you said, agro tourism. I do think that's the future. I think that's wonderful. You guys are really doing some incredible stuff. Thanks. So I want to get into everything. I want to get into Korean Natural Farming, basics. I want to get into the classes. Yeah, why don't we start there? I know there's an upcoming class on traditional hash making. You're working with the dank Duchess. What is that like, and what can people expect in this class? And let's get into some of this traditional hash making strategies. You know what? I mean? Maybe just give away a little teaser of what we can expect in the class. Sure.

So we are fortunate enough that she's going to come out and join us. The first hash class that I took almost three years ago was with her, and we've just maintained communication since then. And so Jason, I are very passionate about a traditional hash Nice. So we really wanted to bring that to the Oklahoma market, and it's kind of an not really known thing as much here where rosin is much more dominant on the market. So we thought being able to bring someone in that is so knowledgeable and well known in the community for hash would maybe help build some of the education piece so people can just see the difference between the products, because they both have their plates, but they both have very differing effects.

I totally agree. And when you're talking about traditional hash, you guys are working on like Temple ball style, right crest and hand roll. So beautiful. Such a wonderful consumption method, such a wonderful expression of this plant. Why do you think traditional hashish is so special, and how does it differ? Like you said, why is it one of your favorite things to consume?

So for me, it came down to it's a much more personal way to be in in tune with the plant. Rosin is very fun for me because it's scientific, and there's so many variables you can play with, but actually rolling the tempo balls with your hand, you can feel the energy of the plant, and like I said, it's just a more intimate way to create something from the plant that is very true, yeah. And it's also a more whole representation of the plant, because you're you are melting those membranes, but they're staying as a part of it. So that's like, a more whole plant is, to me, what I enjoy about

that that flavor is a little different. It's true. Yes. Oh, absolutely.

I mean, you can get some amazing different flavors. And for me, it just comes down to personal preference. I don't care for the effect of rosin as much as I do Pesh. And it's just to me, they're, they're completely different. I think for me, you know, I've,

I took my first class, was with Frenchie in 2016 and just kind of really developed a really good friendship with him, and some of it was because of the Korean Natural Farming and cultivation method that me and him had a big connection, where he he understood it, and talked about terroir and how that was producing grapes, and how much the natural soil affected the the production of crops. And so you know, when I talked with him about bringing nature into our cultivation spot. It's like I would tell them, I when I lived in Colorado, I grew Colorado, natural farming style cannabis, and here I grow Oklahoma, it's just adapted to the areas. And so we had a big connection with that, and developed a really good friendship over the years. And for me, with with traditional hashish, it comes to, you know, the difference of a dry, cured plant material that you're processing versus a fresh, frozen, whole plant. And I think that's some of the the topics with rosin consumers versus people that like traditional hashes, like you were saying, the difference in taste and and terpenes that you'll have from a fresh frozen plant versus something that's dried and cured, you end up with a more sedative effect from dry, cured material that's actually aged and oxidized. So those are some of the things for me. I i. Prefer a heavier effect out of the the products that I like, yeah, so, you know, hash has really been one of those things I have. I have a lot of structural damage. I've broken my femur and dislocated the arch of my foot, and there's times that that just helps medically, to give me a better effect, you know, but it's also something that is, it was taught to me that hashish is a worldly product, and it's been compared to soccer, right? Where soccer is something that's known throughout the world, whereas in the United States, it's nowhere near as big as it is. And hashish is the same exact way as if you get into Europe, or you get into Morocco, or some of these true producing countries, that's, that is the source of consumption,

there is all this smoke. Yeah, you're so right. That is a good point hashes, like soccer in that

regard. Yeah. And so, I think those are some of the things to me, where it's like, you know, it's just a completely different product, and it has a nostalgia to it. I mean, even people who are in in this younger generation now that weren't around in the 70s, when people 60s 70s talk about, you know, old hashish, it's like, those people still connect with it, yes, you know, and so. So those are some of the things that we want to make sure never die out, as well as the consumption methods of, you know, utilizing a true clay chillum, or some of these other other methods that you can consume it. I guess my favorite way still is to just sprinkle some hash on top of a bowl and smoke

that mix has always been my favorite. So I want to get this kind of unique opinion from you guys as natural farmers who also do this traditional hash making process. One of the things that's fascinated me is growing for hash or growing for specific styles of production, right? And specifically when it comes to Temple balls and things like that, what are some of the most important factors during the flowering stage of the growth process that we need to be paying attention to when we're going to end up making hash, whether that's the timing of the harvest or different fertigation techniques, anything that might be done differently when growing for hash instead of growing for just straight flower?

Sure, I think

it's interesting that where, where we've kind of ended up, because I've shared a lot of my hash making knowledge that I've learned with Jules, but there, like she was saying, there's an energy that she picks up when she's making hash, where I connect with the plant. I tell people all the time, I speak to the plants, and they talk back to me on what they what they need. And so it's just interesting, because when Jules told me that she felt the energy and the hash, that was the time that I knew that she needed to be our processor, and I'm the grower. And it was very humbling that, like, I know what I do very well, and I'm a good processor at making hash, but I'm, are my I'm our grower, you know? And so when we talk about cultivation, I'm, I'm a firm believer that in a soil and organic method is the best representation you'll get of the plant. You'll get the full profile of that fino, and then enhancing that with doing ferment fed natural farming techniques really produces the the highest values of anything that that I've come across and seen. And so in the past, I've had opportunities to work in hydroponics facilities and other locations where the last two weeks of the plant's life cycle, they may be flushing nutrients from their their medium. And in my education of this plant, it just doesn't make any sense that the last two weeks of the life cycle, when the resin glands are actually ripening and developing these full terpene profiles that we're not feeding it, we're, you know, trying to strip anything from it. So when we talk about cultivation, in the nice process, we feed all the way up until the day that we harvest. And not just do we we feed up until the day we harvest, but for the last two weeks, we have a specific nutrient regimen that we feed that stresses the plant through the food source that it's getting. So one of those would be a tincture horse radish. Horse radish is extremely high in sulfur, and sulfur is something that produces a higher terpene value. It's used with growing lavender and eucalyptus and other high essential oil producing plants. So that's something we've adopted to our process to produce higher terpene profiles for those last couple of weeks. So

you bomb it with sulfur, and you said it's a horse riding. That is super fascinating. What else do you do from a nutritional perspective, at that last time

we feed an enhanced ripening solution. So it's a fermented fruit extract of seven different fruits that are put together. But there is also an extremely hot chili that is fermented with these fruits. And the reason for that is because the capsaicin is also a stressor. And by doing these things, resin production is a stress response to these plants. And this is one of those things that if we there's a couple of ways through the end of the life cycle that we can trigger these stress points. Some of them are drought, where we can dry bath or medium, and that will also produce some of it, and then some of it can be through the food sources that it's receiving. So in these couple of different ways, we're increasing the metabolism of the plant. That's one of the things that when you consume chili yourself, it's an irritant, right? That's why it's hot to your mouth and on other other sides when it's leaving, you know, but it's an it's an area, and it, true, it increases our tablet so those are some of the things we're looking at. How it works with people and adapting this to plants. We've definitely seen a big increase in resin production. So, you know, the secret chili? Yeah, it's, and, I mean, we usually put, it's couple pounds of ghost peppers in this ferment we make. So it's it's very spicy, but it's interesting too, because these are all nutrients that we cook with at home. So it's really good with stir fries, and it goes good in tacos. Also, wow,

this fermented fruit blend with peppers that is wild now is the fermented fruit that helps the ripening process. What because of the ethylene I've heard in there? Or can you tell us about the about the fruit ferments and why they're helpful?

Yeah, and so this, this specific fruit blend, is stuff that I've put together just based off of a nutritional analysis and charts that I've gone through. But in this fermenting process, what we're going to do for the enhanced ripening is we're going to let the process go longer than you normally would. So rather than a 10 to 14 day fermentation, we're going to go probably 21 days. That's going to increase the ethyl alcohol a little bit higher. It can be detrimental to micro organisms, but that's why we're only using this at the last couple of weeks of flowering and watering, and we're only going to water this in directly at the stem. We cultivate in in four by four beds, so we're not drenching the soil in this is just a small amount that's fed right at the root wall of the plant. Wow. And what it does is it does feed all of those micro organisms because of the the high sugar content, and at this point, we build up large fungal mass through the beds with indigenous micro organisms that we've been applying throughout the process. So this enhanced ripening process is is high in vitamin C. The fruit blend that's in it, it's granny smith apples,

butternut squash, beets, bananas, papayas, mangos and carrots. Oh,

wow. And then we're going to add those hot chili peppers. That's the mixture that's used for the last two weeks of

our wild man, I like that. You guys are getting into some pretty I mean, I've seen a lot of KNF protocols, right? And it's about, you know, sometimes it's about availability. Other people go more fine tuned and, you know, outsource some things here or there. But this seems pretty comprehensive. I like this. I like this end of end of flower strategy here,

enhanced ripening process is unique to natural farming. Anyways, it's just where we've kind of adapted it with the nice process is focusing on the needs of cannabis, right? And so the, I guess the the nice process is something that I put together about five years ago, and what nice stands for is natural, indoor cannabis, education or experience. Nice,

nice,

exactly. It comes to one of those things that I've been a practitioner of Korean Natural Farming for eight years now and earlier on. It about, you know, 767, years ago, when this stuff was kind of coming along, there was more open source knowledge on the internet than, I think there were actual formal classes, so more of the bro science that was going around on how to do things. And you know, I practiced that way for about four years. And it was in 2019 that I went and I did my first intensive Korean Natural Farming class. And it was kind of funny, because when I went and did it, there were already a. Lot of people at the class who knew me for practicing natural farming, and they were asking me why I was there. And you know, for me, it was to to actually learn from a certified instructor, and Chris Trump was who I took my first class with. So it was a really good experience, and it helped me dial in the things that I I wasn't doing true to tradition. But what I what I realized, was that Korean Natural Farming was never meant for growing cannabis, right, I mean, and so it's one of those things that it had to be developed for this crop. And so in doing a lot of that, I was told by a lot of people that I wasn't doing Korean Natural Farming. You're not doing natural farming because you're not doing this, or you're not doing it because you're not doing that. And a lot of it just comes across kind of mean, you know what I mean? There's a lot of people that that's the way it comes across, and they're very pure in the way that they they do stuff. And so that

is an honest estimate, Jace coming from inside the community, because you're right sometimes, and this can happen with a lot of people right. I don't want to just single out the KNF folks, but sometimes it can come off as dogmatic, and someone's jumping down your throat because you're not doing it just like them. And you got to ask yourself, is that good for the community? So okay, let's say you jump down this guy's throat, and then he stops growing and he just doesn't pick it up again. Yes, that was that a net positive. So for you to say, Yeah, I'm a KNF guy, and sometimes we can be a little dogmatic, that's, uh, that's a good, unbiased take, man. I like that when

so, so really, than what I just kind of did was I humbled myself and bit the bullet on, you know, what, what I what I do, is different than true, traditional Korean Natural Farming, and what we do is nice, natural indoor cannabis education and killer. So rather than, you know, jump into being mean and firing back at people. I was like, let's just be be nice about stuff. And it just, it kind of rolled into a lot of things, actually, miles, miles. Filipe, weed should taste good. He said, Well, yeah, we love weed should taste good. He said, Whatever happened to kind but, man, everybody used to be nice. And, you know, everybody kind of, and then it's weird, because you start getting into, like you said, the regenerative community, and it seems like there's almost like things that are against each other, because you have people that are hardcore soil, food web that will tell you Korean Natural Farming is not good, and you're killing all of your microbes. And it just seems like there's a combination of things that really work. Well, I've taken Elaine Ingham soil food web class, and what it really helped me understand was how I had to care for the soil that I've been utilizing, you know, and that there's benefits to all of those things. And so this process, it's it's come a long way in the last five years, where to date, I've taught nine in intensive five day classes. And I think we have probably 65 to 70 students who have come through taking the class from home scale commercial home scale cultivation to commercial scale. So it's, it's interesting, because a lot of the stuff that I hear from the Korean Natural Farming view is that you can't do it on scale, that it's like a hobbyist type thing. And I've operated, uh, 13,000 square foot commercial facilities using this process. So that's awesome. You know, it, it's not that it can't be done. You just have to understand how to apply things.

That is really cool. Man, super, super cool. I like the kind of, I don't know if you want to call it crop steering or whatever, but it seems like you are getting really specific into the cannabis life cycle and the cannabis nutritional qualities. That's, that is really neat stuff. I love to hear it.

Yeah, I think it's, it's when this, I don't know, I kind of kind of have a feeling that, you know, when this plant is appreciated for the nutritional value that it provides, not just the therapeutic effects, is when we'll really see what this plant can do for people, because that's the other thing about growing with this method, is to have a nutrient dense product, because we juice all of our leaves also. So, you know, juicing those for consumption, it's one of the most nutritional plants there. There is on the planet with vitamin E, vitamin K, vitamin A, and then when you're getting all of the additional chlorophyll, terpenes, flavonoids, all of these things that you can get from from raw cannabis. Yeah, you'll you'll never get those same values from something that's synthetically grown. It's just like when you get a tomato from the store that has no flavor and you get one from the garden. And it's just bursting. You know, that is the difference.

Okay, I want to get into that really quickly, and then I want to get back to growing for hash. And then talk to Jules as well about hash making. So I got, I got a lot I want to ask you guys, but you talk about this juicing. We can't breeze over that. How do you juice your cannabis leaves? Do you have any recipes that you could share? Is it just as simple as adding X amount to their current juice? Talk to me about drinking and juicing cannabis leaves. I love this. So

generally, we will just, if we're deep, fanning or something like that, we'll just take the leaves and we soak them in some clean water for just a little bit, and then I literally just pull hand pulls out and run it through my juicer to make it easy for serving size, I just put in, like, ice cube trays, and then once those are frozen, pop those out and keep them in a Ziploc bag, and I use them every day in smoothies. Oh, perfect. So

you have juiced ice cubed cannabis leaves, and then those get thrown into your regular green smoothie or whatever.

Yeah, because that way, then I can have it for longer, because if it's fresh, really, even with a good juicer, after a couple days, you're losing a lot of those nutrients. But by juicing and then freezing, you're locking that in. So you can use that, and there are great for women who have menstrual cramps, you can put that in there, and it really helps just lower the inflammation and help with pain in the body, or, you know, your sore whatever. No, I

love so with the with the juicing, also, it does make a difference on the type of juicer that you're using, if you have a centrifugal juicer, which is one that it spins really fast, so when you push stuff down in it, kind of whips everything around. That type of juicer produces a lot more oxygenation into the juice, so you need to consume that immediately, right? If you're using like a cold pressed auger style, you have more, like 72 hours before it really starts to degrade and oxidize, because it doesn't get as much of that oxygen in it, but that's where freezing it does, does help with some of that that process. There's so many things you can use out of this plant. So once we're done with the juicing process, all of the pulp that comes out of that goes into our worm bins, right? Compost it, yeah, or it just gets composted into the beds, so that we're not, we're not wasting that with the the juice, there's a bunch of things that you can, you can do with it, like Joel said, she'll do smoothies with them. It's, it's very acidic and accurate. One of the things that's nice is to put it in some juice. Mango Juice works really well because it's high in versing also. So it helps to break the blood brain barrier, get some more traffic with that. It also makes it more palatable. That's one of the things that we did, first of all, our kids with cancer, was because it, it's just like, you know, when you you like you said, you drink a green juice, and it just has that acidity to it, yeah, kind of

bitterness. It's like, if you juice some kale or something like that,

just makes it so much more palatable to do that. So there's a lady here in Oklahoma, Dr Pepper Hernandez. She talks a lot about juicing as well, and in in some of the talks, she said as few as five leaves a day will make a health change in your your life. So it doesn't, it doesn't take that much, but it's the the regular additive, and because you're getting all of those acidic cannabinoids and compounds, you don't have any any psychotropic effects of anything. It almost is like a little bit of a burst of energy from it. Yeah,

I love that, man. And just not throwing away those healthy leaves, those fan leaves, are chocked full of everything that your cannabis plant needs, right? This is something we've talked about on the show, and people are going to throw them into their compost pile, right? That's a great way to get it back into the cycle. People talk about a JLF, if you want to do that kind of long term strategy, but then, like you're saying, just consuming it, don't, don't neglect the mammal side, you know, feeding it to your cat or yourself also reuses that nutrition and that energy

well. And on that, 50% of our chickens diet is cannabis leaf. Oh, my God, that. So that goes right back into, you know, the the farm and what we're doing. So they're getting all those benefits. They just eat the leaves. Oh yeah. They love

it. Love it. They go nuts for it. When they have a bucket of leaves. I mean, they will decimate a five gallon bucket in a couple minutes. Wow. That

is so cool. That is so cool. Yeah. So, I mean, listen, there's so much I want to cover here. We might have to do a couple of episodes, but, but let's, let's keep moving along here the juicing everybody touched by cannabis Ice Cube juice recipe, I'm going to try that myself. Join the order of cultivation today our membership community at growcast podcast.com/membership our tight knit family is waiting to help you elevate your garden game. Be. On to your wildest dreams. We've got hundreds of hours of bonus content just for members. We've got weekly live streams the members only discord, where people are meeting up in our different regional chapters, they're trading they're helping each other out in their garden. The community is amazing. Plus, you get member discounts on things like rain science grow bags and Rimrock analytical testing and a bunch of our partners, members only, discounts deeper than anything else you can find out there, even for products like Dino Myco, come on in. Get at all the live streams, all the amas, all the giveaways, it's all going down in the order of cultivation. Like I said, as our little family of cultivators, we are very tight knit, and we work hard every day to deliver value to you. Growers, you get discounts on the seeds at grow. Cast, seed CO, our Oreo feminization just dropped, and members get a huge discount on all their seeds. You also get discounts on the classes and events. We got community cups coming up. We got cultivators cups coming up, all sorts of classes. The members get in on it first, and they always save go to grow, cast, podcast.com/membership, to see all the bonus content and all the bonus goodies. I'll see you there. Our membership is open right now, so I cannot wait to have you in our order of cultivation. Family. Shout out to the order of cultivation. Shout out to all the members, all the mods who helped get it done. I appreciate each and every one of you, and I will continue to work tirelessly for the order

see you there.

Back to the cultivation for hash, though, I do want to wrap this up. I love what you were saying about ripening and that critical end stage, not not doing anything counterproductive to the plant during that ripening phase. What else are you thinking about when you're about to harvest for hash? Let's talk about timing. You know a lot of people, they're gonna they're gonna run rosin, and people shop with their eyes, so they cut their flower a little bit earlier to get that nice, clear color on that, that light color on that, on their rosin. I've heard people say that you know that alone isn't, isn't a good strategy, but when you're harvesting for traditional hash, what is your timing like? Are you scoping trichomes? Tell me about that.

Yeah. So you know, definitely going to be be looking at trichome ripeness on them. And I'm kind of, I don't know when, when I hear people talk about cutting down stuff early for color, it kind of comes back to that shortening the full ripening of that, that gland, you know. And so some of that color spectrum that you can see can be dependent on the micron size of your head that you're collecting. Times you'll see some of the smaller microns, like your 45 to 72 have a little bit more ambering in them than some of the larger heads. So what some people will do is just leave that smaller selection out so that they have like a 73 to 159 you'd have a little bit cleaner color with a fully developed plant. But when I started looking at at stuff for traditional hatch that we would be making, come back to the mind of when you look at your resin glands, if we're harvesting this stuff for flour, we would be looking for no more than 20% ambering, the rest of it being milky for your your resin glass. But when you, when you cut these plants down to hang them to dry cure, it's kind of like when you cook a steak on the grill. When you take the steak off the grill and let it rest, it continues cooking, right? Those glands are going to continue to develop as they're drying over those those couple of weeks that you're you're getting that done. So when you harvest something at 20% Amber, it's probably going to be more like a 35 40% Amber by the time you get through that drying phase. And that's where, you know, cutting your stuff down and getting it into the freezer for fresh frozen kind of eliminates any of that progression of oxidation. So for me, when I want to make the most heavy sedative type hash, I would even let things go longer than a 20% Amber. I'd let them even go to a 30 to 40% Amber, depending on where they are. And some of this comes back to looking at where things would be harvested. In a producing country right now we'd be looking at something that has a longer growth season. If we're looking at like Afghanistan or Iran, or somewhere like that, they have a longer growing season than we normally do. So those plants that are growing out in the fields are going to be a full term harvested plant, right? So that's kind of where I go for looking at hash, and it's like, I guess that's your different progressions, right? If you're looking for rosin, you may want to get there where you're just getting milky and you don't have any of that Amber, that would kind of help prevent some of that color degradation. But then when you start getting for your flower, I mean, you want to have some of that ambering to give you the ripeness you're looking across for it. But then with hashish, I'd be fine with 45 to 50% Amber, knowing that you on, yeah, some of the most, some of the most amazing hatch I've ever had. Was black, black, black, just, you know, full, full developed. And so that's kind of how I look at timing. And, you know, it's one of those things. It's not necessarily for me. I guess there's, there's more in the technique of washing, in the way that I would look at doing some of that for the hash production versus rosin? Oh, let's

talk about that. I'd love to know those specifics. And by the way, to your point, I think you're absolutely right. People don't run their cultivars long enough, like forget the harvesting for light colored rosin. I think that that's that's just to please people who are shopping with their eyes and generally not a good idea if you're looking for just an experiential even flowers, right? Like humans are impatient. Let it go that extra time, right? Like wolfman said that before, like, the harvest, time is seven days after, you think it's time to harvest. Like always, give it longer. I don't know. I like that. You can certainly let things go too long. But I think in general, people are often a little too impatient. So I totally agree. But the difference is in washing, talk to me about that. So on one side, I'm going to press it into rosin. On the other side, I'm making traditional hashish. What are the differences when I go to put this in the in the ice water, and stir it around and wash that Bubble Hash? So

the the big difference is you have to look at how it's going to be processed at the end of this, right? So when you're boshing and you're collecting things for rosin, of course, you want to minimize how many stocks you're going to have in it, because stocks are contaminant in in any way you look at it, right? Whether you're making traditional hashish and temple balls or you're making rosin, the difference is, is that that contaminant is going to be trapped in a micron bag that you press, versus when you're doing a temple ball. There is no additional filtration. We're just going to melt those heads. So that's true. The way that Frenchie always taught me was you would do smaller, shorter washes to lightly agitate. And he always referred to it as an apple tree, right? The the ripest fruit is going to fall off first, and you would collect that off the ground, then you have a light agitation, and the next ripest will fall off, then another light agitation, and the more will fall off. That will eliminate having so much contaminant in it. Whereas, if you know we're running stuff for for rosin, and if you're doing hand washing, I know people that will just get in it, they'll let things soak for their 3540 minutes, and then they'll wash for 20 minutes, 30 minutes straight, you know what I mean. And then straightening that off, you're going to have contaminant that will be freeze dried. But once you press that through your micron bags, and you look through it to see your window, you can still see all of that contaminant in it. If you have all of that contaminant in your temple ball, all you're going to end up with is a charred bit of material in the end of your your pipe, or it's going to be, it's not going to have the milk qualities that you would from something you know, and now you'll never, it won't be as clean as if you're doing like a dry sift that's collecting like 99% heads, but that's the method of washing, is shorter agitations and and collecting the the ripest Fruit and keeping those, those separated. So those are some of the washing techniques where it's like also dry cured material versus fresh frozen. You know, you the hydration time that you have to add to that is just different than with fresh frozen. So I think that that's where it ends up being very different, different conversations and why we wanted to do a traditional hashish class, because there are a lot of solventless classes and teachings that go on. But it almost, it's almost portrayed that, like traditional hashish and temple balls, are an inferior product, right, or a less quality, you know, which is just

not true. It's just different strokes, right? It's different expressions. It's like saying edibles are better than smoking. It's a subjective experience, and there's something so special about that traditional hashish. Man, everyone's got to try it at least once. It's like we're saying about about breeding, and we're doing this breeding class. It's like every grower should breed at least once. I feel the same way about making Bubble Hash and I feel the same way about making temple balls. Rosin is a different story, because it requires some machinery that's pretty expensive, right? It's out of a lot of home growers price range to get, like, a decent sized press, but Bubble Hash and temple balls man, everyone should try it once, well,

and even to the point that in the class, we're going to talk about the sieving process into, I mean, I was taught originally, man, you would see this stuff into a pizza box on parchment paper. So, you know, I just want people to also still have some of these base. Six that you can build upon, but you don't have to either, you know. So

that same, you know, in a commercial facility, obviously we use a freeze dryer. But again, like you said, on a press, a freeze dryer is not within everybody's budget. If you want to do this at home, and it can be done at home with, really, a used kombucha bottle that you put some warm water in to press out your hash and a turkey bag.

Yes, exactly that. That is the big difference. You're right, the freeze dryer, the rosin press, it's a little bit intimidating and costly, let's be honest. So I like the, I like the temple ball approach, super, super cool that you guys are doing that. Thank you. So, yeah, listen, I want to talk about chickens. We mentioned chickens. Let's talk chickens. I mean, you tell me, is this one of the biggest impacts on your lives and your farm for I don't want to say little effort, but, I mean, you tell me, how hard is it raising chickens, and how much is it impacting your your farm and your farming?

It's funny because, you know, up until this year, when we've got chickens, it it felt like it was something that we couldn't do, like it was more than we would be able to manage, or almost just like you're saying, like, gosh, this is going to be so much work, and we don't even know where to start or what to do. And we, we watched all kinds of homesteading videos and read books, and, yeah, we did all of the things that you could up until the point of you just kind of have to do it. You know, it's been a steep learning curve. It has, sure, it's been a learning curve, because this is the first time, like I said, that we've ever had any type of land. So we've never had really any type of animals too. And the first round of chickens that we did, we did all meat birds. So we did 50 cornish game crosses, and we did them in movable tractors, so it was all stuff that was simply put together. But it was one of those things Jordan that when we started looking at what we wanted to feed our chickens, Joel started researching chicken feed, and there's just a lot of crap in it. There's a lot of fillers. There's a lot of things that are very similar to the food that we can regularly consume, and it just it didn't make sense to feed them like the commercial grains or the feeds that they put together for chickens. And with the background in natural farming, we just started looking at, well, what is, what did Master Cho talk about utilizing? And we just dove into doing it with making our own feed from whole grains and herbs and feeding them some of the natural farming inputs. So some of that lessened the learning curve, because we're already doing it for plants, right? And it was like the plants ended up eating the same things that the chickens eat, and then the chickens eat the plants. So it it fell into a very easy loop to do, Jeez, what was kind of a difficult learning curve was losing animals for us. Because, you know, you're you're learning for one, but then two, it's like, there's animals that you get that are the runts of the litter, and they may not be as healthy, or, you know, things that just doesn't come out. And last year, we had a very hot year in Oklahoma, and learning that heat is one of the hard things to deal with. With chickens, we lost a few chickens to excessive heat. It's not

like losing a plant. I mean, when you grow up on a farm, you have a different relationship with the animals, right? Yeah,

Jules has done really good, and I can let her talk more on the the impact it's had to our farm, but I think we've all kind of agreed that now that we've had chickens, we don't ever want to not have them,

because you got the eggs, you got the bird meat, right? Are we? Are we making some WCA? How do these chickens integrate

so they their feed is pretty simple. Let's just mill it and still cut oats and oatmeal, brown rice, and sometimes white rice, if that's what I can find. And then my background is in traditional Chinese medicine. I've been a practitioner for over 15 years, and so I've applied some of the verbal knowledge that I had to put into their feed so they daily get cayenne pepper, which is really good in the winter, to help raise their body temperature, just like we talked about the enhanced ripening, we use hot pepper to help raise their body temperature so they stay warm in the winter. It's also a natural anti parasite for them, and if there were mice or whatever that might get into their food, that hot pepper deters them from wanting to eat it because. Chickens can't taste the heat. They don't have the enzyme to taste it, so it doesn't taste like anything to them, but it gives them a lot of benefit. They get oregano and garlic, turmeric, just all really good, antibacterial, antiviral, just things to help boost their immune system as well. And I just started fermenting food. That was another thing that seemed like it was so intimidating, but then I was like, We ferment a lot of stuff. This can't be that difficult. So it's supposed to make it more nutrient available for them, and also a way to cut your feed costs, because then they eat a little bit less because they're getting more out of the grain.

That's awesome. I like that. Okay, so that, so the farm is going in, and then are you working with the chicken bedding, you know, the, there's the chicken poo, right? Yeah, coming from, coming from the Cloaca, higher in nitrogen, because it's, you know, like the urine mixed in with there. Are you utilizing that at all. So

yeah, we are we use, IMO, in the chicken coop so we don't have to regularly clean it. It actually has no smell. You wouldn't know that there were 30 chickens in my coop down there unless didn't saw him, because there is literally no smell. And I realized that once we had gone a little too long and not making IMO, and I walked in one day and that ammonia health smell hit me, and I was like, think this is what people are talking about when they talk about chickens being stink because our birds don't smell. And what's really amazing is after time when that bedding gets built up, I was reading in the natural farming books that it's it ends up being like 10 to 15% of their diet. Is that? What breaks their poop down with that? IMO, then they can eat and get some amazing food from that. And so it just is another way that it just sustains itself.

It's a living soil. Chicken bed, is what you're saying. Yeah, it's

really cool. It cuts down on time of having to clean out the bedding all the time. It's also they love it when we throw it in there, they I have every afternoon I bring them snacks. We call it chicken snacky time, and they get extra just chickens, like, you know, kitchen scraps or just a special treat, because they are providing something for us. So I like to love on them, even if they're my food. But the day that Jace will throw in, IMO, they just go nuts. They eat it up. They love it so much, and we've used it as a heat source during cold snaps for them, it just serves so many purposes

for that. Wow. But what's kind of funny, you're talking about people breeding, and everybody should breed once or something. We've had, in the last year, we've had eight varieties of chickens, so just different, different types. And it's interesting to see how they're all different, just like plants are all different. And so we're we just got an incubator our daughter, she's homeschooled, so one of the science projects she's going to do is we're going to hatch some chickens, and we're going to make our own variety of chickens. Wow, that is so cool. So we have our rooster, his name, he's a Buff Orpington, and then we have an Easter Egger, and our Buff Orpington, his name is Major Clucker, and the other one, her name is Honey Mustard. So the the breed of chickens we're going to make this year is called Honey Cluckers.

Oh, that's great. That's got a nice ring to it. Oh, man, that's

grain names. Yeah, that is

wonderful, though, but you get the chicken puns in there. So, so are these meat birds? Did you do egg birds too? Are they? Those are separate types of breeds, right? So I,

we've done kind of the gamut, like you said. We started with Cornish crosses, and I, while they ended up they're fine for me, they're not sustainable because you can't reproduce them. They're kind of a specialized hybrid bird that is almost like a lab only bird that needs to be hatched. So I thought, well, the long term, that doesn't make sense.

It's an auto flower chicken.

Yep, exactly, exactly. Then we moved into the majority of what's down in the coupe are supposed to be dual perfect, because we'd ultimately like to have both out of it. So we've got black jersey giants, which are good dual purpose, but they're also big meat birds, because a full grown rooster is about two and a half feet, and he can finish out at about 1516, pounds, so like a turkey, almost. So we have those, and they also produce eggs. Our layers right now are just a mix of different birds because we just wanted to try different ones. We have naked neck turkins. We've got the Orpington. We've got just a bunch of different breeds, but we all tried to pick them that they had a good temperament, because we. Wanted to be able to handle them, that they produce eggs and that we could eat them for meat. So we're just kind of trying out a bunch of different breeds right now to see kind of what, what's going to work best for us.

That is really, really cool. Yeah, so there's probably some WCA, like I said, you have some eggshells laying around, although, you know, eggshells are one of those things where you don't need chickens to find eggshells. It's good to have the eggs, but eggshells, you can start without chickens. Just a thought, yeah,

it's one of those things in the class that we do. I tell people to be resourceful. We make a lot of FAA fish amino acids. And I went around to some local sushi restaurants, and I get their fish scraps that are flown in the day before. That's all stuff that would just be thrown away at the church that we attend. I we do a monthly breakfast there, and I've asked them to save eggshells for me. Nice. Yeah, there's ways that you can come across a lot of these things without having any expense, and those are things that just reduce your costs all the way around 1,000%

do you ever get into coffee grounds? That is a big waste product, and now coffee grounds are a little bit controversial, because it's one of the most heavily pesticide crops. If you can get organic coffee grounds, or if you, for instance, compost them for a certain period of time, or what have you. But I want to know what your thoughts are on the the nitrogen rich coffee grounds. I

like them in worm bins, right? I like to utilize those with some newspaper in in worm bins for carbon nitrogen ratio. That kind of helps with that. But like you said, they can be kind of acidic, and depending on where they're come from, I know there are some people that are making different composts from coffee chaff and stuff like that too. So I think there's a few things like that that are going on, but if they don't go into a worm bin, they usually are just going to get either pitched or something, because I don't, it's kind of all over the board. You know? It's

true, yeah. And unfortunately, it's like cannabis, where if you grow it properly, it will be low acid, high in antioxidants, loaded with antioxidants, actually, and no pesticides, right? But the problem is, when you when you grow it mono crop, it cover it in pesticides and fungicides and all that stuff. Then, then it becomes a health negative, yeah. So, yeah, I just love the idea of reusing these things, though, because there's so many coffee grounds that just get thrown out every day. And that's like, you know, metric tons of nitrogen just being completely wasted. So definitely, but the worm bin, you're saying the worm bin, I love it. The worms love the coffee grounds. I

think that's a big thing, especially in this cultivation method, is the the Verma composting that we we can do in our soils. That's what really gets a lot of these nutrients to the available pool for for our plants, you know.

So before we wrap the episode, I would love to talk about just that. Maybe if you could, like a quick crash course, most of my growers who listen are home growers, right? I know that you can throw together a worm bin, like in a tote type situation. How would you recommend somebody start their own worm bin in a confined space as a home grower today?

As far as worm bins, I mean, there are certain ones that you can put together. There's definitely a lot of do it yourself projects. One of the most important things with having a worm bin is making sure that it drains properly, then all of that leech will will drain out of those as it starts to build. There's a couple of worm towers that you can buy. They're fairly cheap, like within $60 and they'll have six to seven stackable trays on them. They're roughly two feet by two feet, so they fit really well in a small space. And that's what I used for my my home cultivation

buy a worm tower. Okay? I mean, it's one of those things you buy once, right?

Yeah, you buy it once, and it usually comes with anywhere from four to six trays. And the way that you'll do that is you can buy one pound of worms, and you start it in the bottom tray, and you either add food scraps and different things to the bottom of that, and as they consume it, they start to build up. And as that tray fills up, you just put another one on top of it, and another layer of food, and the worms will move up to it. What ends up happening is, as they move up to the new layers of food, the bottom layer just becomes a whole tray of worm castings. And because it's sitting on a tray with a spigot, all of the leech will drain out of it. Wow, that Lee is it's good to use if you brew it in a tea and feed it to like trees or shrubs. But you don't want to use that leech directly into your plants, because it's a lot of unprocessed waste from those worms. So using that can be loaded with bacteria that is non beneficial if you don't brew it. And like I said, feeding it to trees or shrubs is probably the best for it. But then once you get those trays stacked up, you just take the bottom one off and you have an entire tray of organic worm castings that's beautiful. What I do advice? People on, though, when you're doing this is to make sure that you pay attention to the food that you're putting into your worm bin. Ideally you want to have a 30 to one carbon to nitrogen ratio that's going to give you your best worm casting mixture out of it for nutritional value, because you can really affect that by having too much carbon, right? Newspaper is still totally a good thing to use, because the ink is different now than what they used to put in it, and it's easy to come across. I would also tell people, watch out. They'll put banana peels. Don't break down. The same in worm bins, they kind of rot a little differently than other fruits. Those are something that you can use in home. And then for our personal home grow, I have a four by four tent that I have one four by four bed in. We grow nine plants in a four by four section. And it is a little bit more of a costly setup to start with, but I've gone up to 23 cycles in that same container without ever having to do anything with it. And the reason I had to get rid of the soil is because we moved, wow.

Now you were adding ferments, though, to be clear, for extra mineral content, probably I'd imagine, yep, every

cycle, it was cut a plant down and then start over the nice process, just from how it goes week to week. What is your principal

microbial driver? Obviously, you're throwing in those worm castings and those compost but then you add IMO, right? And then you add ferments, micro

organisms, lactobacillus, those are our primaries that we're utilizing for microbial inoculants. But then there's different compost teas that we will brew to water in as well, and then regularly microscoping the soil and making sure that we're having good aerobic anaerobes. Are microorganisms that are are breathing in the soil. So I think that's some of this stuff. I I don't test our soil nearly as often as many people do. I'll read the plants and kind of what's going on based off of what their needs are. I'll take

a look at the soil. He'll take a look at the microbiology and the soil composition. But because you're adding so many minerals back with these ferments, I'd imagine that you probably need you need less amending. Yeah,

it's one of those things that I think that it took me a long time to realize that there's more than enough nutrients in the soil through growth cycles, if I make them available, right? So I think those are other things, but on, I think that it's probably one of those things. As far as the Korean Natural Farming, it is definitely easier to do on a home scale for most people than it is on a commercial because you can do a lot of these ferments in court size mason jars, a lot of these amendments that you make. You can make enough for two or three growth cycles within a week and a half, you know. So I think those are some of the things where it's very easy to do. It's where, where I think people have a hard time with the Korean Natural Farming and implementing it into what they're doing, is they feel like it's a lot of work to make all of these nutrients, but what we've put together in the class that we teach is that you make these nutrients along the process, right? So it's not like you're having to create a whole other step to make a ferment, because you're making your ferments at the time you defend your plants, or you're making your nutrients at a certain point in the process that it's not adding more work, and then it may that you have the nutrients when you need them. You know,

right? No, it's part of the workflow. Is what you're saying. As opposed to the this mentality of buying those bottles before you get your run started, right? You're saying you can integrate it into the workflow of your growth cycle. That is really, really a cool, distinguishing idea.

There's a couple of nutrients that we we make that take a longer time frame to do, but you just make a quantity that lasts, right?

Man. This is great stuff. Everyone needs to check out the class, touch by cannabis.com. Touch by cannabis on Instagram. Hopefully they get that back by the time this recording releases. Fucking Instagram. Man, so, man, we would love to have you both back on. You are incredible first time guests, and you talk about making these ferments. You know, obviously you go deep, deep into the class. But maybe we could do like grow cast TV, and you could walk me through my first WCA or something. You know what? I mean, watch me fuck up some eggshell ferments, something like that. I don't know. I would just love to have you guys back on. This was one this

was wonderful. That would be great. Thank you, Jordan. I appreciate it. Thank you both. Any final

words before we wrap it up here? Where can people find you? Where are you going to be? What dates for these classes? And tell us where you're at?

So the class that Jules will be doing with the DANC Duchess in Tulsa. Will be on march 3 at Studio 30. There are a couple of spots left, but only a couple for that. And then we will be doing a three day cultivation class in Denver with Miles Philippe. We should taste good and Nick a new Chi from Portal provision, yes, on April 7 through the ninth in Cherry Creek. So that'll be a little bit different than our five day intensive classes. This is going to be a three day class focused on the process. So if you're somebody who has been practicing and you've made some ferments and you're just maybe not quite sure how to get all of that implemented. This might be a really good class for you, because it really dials in the week by week, process of application for what we're doing. And then we are going to have a small section of that class where Nick is going to talk about post harvesting for solvent list processing. So just kind of touch a little bit on how you can can make sure you're getting every bit out of that return. And then what we have coming up here in May with you. Oh,

community cup. Jesus, thank you. Producer Jace, my God, just really get so stoned on this truffle cake. I forgot about the community cup May 7. Of course, yeah, I'm so excited that you guys are going to be speaking. So that's going to be in Oklahoma City May 7, at the Oklahoma City Public farmers market, the community Cup, the day of education, combined with a Cannabis Cup and a home grower showcase, we got something for everybody. So check it out. Grow cast, podcast.com/community, cup, all one word, yeah. I'm really excited that you guys are speaking. Thank you for speaking at the community cup, and thank you for coming on today's show. Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you, Jordan. Appreciate you guys. So much. Everyone listening. Appreciate you. This is Jordan River and touch by cannabis, and this is touch by cannabis, all signing off saying, Have a wonderful day out there. Be safe and grow smarter. That's our show. Thank you everybody for tuning in, and thank you to touched by cannabis. Before we wrap it up, I want to give some love to AC infinity, my favorite grow gear manufacturers, AC infinity.com, always use code grow cast one, five. Grab yourself a new tent, a new light. Grab yourself a grow kit. Expand that grow room, get that veg tent going so you can do some staggered runs. Code grow cast one five works on all the products at AC infinity and the Grow kits, which come with everything you need to get started growing. Of course, AC infinity makes amazing, durable tents. They make the best oscillating and inline fans in the game. They make grow lights. They make grow pots. They got scissors. They got protective eyewear. Everything you need is at AC infinity.com, and code grow cast one five is the code you use to save everybody. You're helping us keep our lights on here, and you're supporting an awesome company, our partners, AC infinity. We've been with them for years and years now. I remember discovering them when they just had the cloud line. They're in line fans, and now they have all these goodies from the cloud, Ray oscillator to the cloud Forge, humidifier, find it all always use code, grow, cast one, five, and thank you. AC, infinity. AC infinity.com. Okay, everyone, that's it for today. Thank you for tuning in. We've got some new content headed your way. We're gonna get a couple of old favorites back on the show. So don't you touch that dial. Hope your garden is looking stellar and burst into the seams. I'll see you on the next grow cast, bye, bye.

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But there is also an extremely hot chili that is fermented with the fruits and.