Hey Katharina, how's it going? Good. I think we haven't talked before, right?
I don't think so. No.
Where are you based?
I'm in Germany near Frankfurt on the way
Okay, wait, are you a German speaker?
Yeah, yeah.
I'm from Vienna. That's funny. Oh, that's cool. Sometimes together
no no, I'm based in Lisbon. No, I moved here from Austria. Let me let me let me ping me on Slack. That's fun. Yeah.
Hi DK
Hello everybody how you doing today
Good how are you? Good. Thanks, Joe. We're just coming off this coaching session for folks who've applied to the RFP, so I'm sure he'll be with us in just a sec. Krzysztof, is that a new haircut ser? you're looking more aerodynamic than the last time I saw you.
This is my default haircut
Well, it's looking looking fresh today anyway. There's Rebecca. Hey, Rebecca. Katharina in a car driving somewhere in the highway in Germany? Thank you for joining us even while in transit. Katharina. Let's see we got a couple of otters here. Senad Nice to see you here. Thanks for joining us. Okay, I'll I'll share my screen and get us started. And I think we've got regrets from Gustav not sure who else to anticipate today but looks like we are recording I'll do the actual recording of this call as a video to but yeah.
Okay, just sharing screen. There is Martin Martin's auto pilot that like sending us lots of updates. For some reason. Okay, great.
So let's kick it off and get started. We'll go into slideshow mode and here
It was nice seeing you for 12 seconds in Dubai Krzysztof? It was
Likewise
Joe, are you already in India now? Where are you on route between places? I'm
going to Sydney tomorrow. So I'm actually up to Zo house in Bangalore. And it's like a blockchain based like community. It's like a Soho House like but kind of smaller but it's like they do events here and it's a really cool like blockchain first like community. You can rent like rooms and stay there. Like it's like a hotel plus. Yeah.
That sounds much better than the Rock and Roll hotel you were in? In Lisbon. Not that long ago. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let's jump right in. So the very first topic is the introduction of this board resource page. I'm guessing you probably all haven't had a chance to look at it yet. I'll just give you a sec to check it out. I also shared the link in the telegram thread long story short is this is the resource page. We've been promising for a little while that is going to be your source of truth for like where the latest agenda is the pre read the budget, the past board minutes and recordings, any of the documents that we've shared. And I guess really the the takeaway here is just to take a look at it to make sure that you're aware of it. And also to provide an opportunity if there's anything else that you would like to see on this resource page. You know that that is absolutely something that we can do. So just a matter of letting us know if there's anything that you feel like shouldn't be in this resource page that isn't. You'll also find forum posts and the weekly and monthly updates. So tried to basically include everything that you know will be useful to or important to you we're gonna try to keep this up to date, you know, up to as close to the present moment as possible. Definitely on a week to week basis. You know, there'll be like any changes that are necessary will be you know, they're, like 24 hours before the meeting. And you know, we'll be doing work on sort of updates on Friday throughout the weekend and a lot of the time. So just to kind of give you a sense of the cadence. You know, the majority of things that you see in their living documents, you know, there's a couple things that will be updated weekly. Probably the first one would be the, the milestones which will be one of the next items in the agenda is a new format for that milestones document to based on some of the feedback we got in previous calls. Anybody have any questions or comments about that? I know my approach is give you a minute to actually click on the link and go check it out. And then maybe let's get it in the chat if we didn't already. Do due to there's the agenda
and I do have comments. But I don't want to again take over this call. So I will wait for others to speak before I dive into my comments.
Give it a beat but ah feel free to jump in I'll get happy to have your feedback.
There are similar things that I noticed. Probably it will be good to discuss maybe separately not on the board meeting. So first of all, thank you for providing the budget. Something that just wanted to point out the final the amounts. You know, for me, they all adapt to submit that I recognized. However, the allocated amount from Milestone One is something that is bigger than what you reported previously. So just noting that it's amount that is way higher than what you previously reported. So but this one seems correct, please. So and it will be great to have the breakdown of the budget. Going forward to be able to track the budget execution but you know, we'll be covering it well, you know, on the go. Then, I've been looking into that, that delivery tracking table and my first my first remark is that this table is way different than the ones that we've seen before. Well, it's okay. I'm not sure if like there's a bit concerning that we are seeing different table every two weeks or so. Because like you know, it's hard to track something if it's it's changing. And at the latest table. I think it requires some discussion. I don't want to discuss it right now. But some things are I think we do not understand this table fully but it's okay. I saw it for the first time so I probably don't have to understand the point. Then the last remark is about the process for RFPs. So something that that currently like I saw this process includes good, very solid. Well I would say that this is half of the process because this process ends with with the selection of the programs and you know there is the whole thing of execution, validating the program may go wrong, we might be needing to reclaim you know, we might be required to clawback the funds. We might be required to cancel a program if it's not going well. And then for those projects that don't program that went perfectly well. We should be able to you know track results and and show it and also like the final supplements and stuff like that. So like I would say that it's a great first version but I believe that it requires some some work still to simply include all the things that are needed Yeah, I think that for now these are my main main remarks.
I have a couple things for you that might might help here and clarify a couple pieces. One is on the homepage that we just shared. We put up this timeline that is like taking a lot of the detail out but making it so there's a high level overview and working with block science based on their like expert service provider network framework that they did last season. We sat and talked to them because they actually reached out about our RFP process and they were like, here's some things like you know, government practices that might be used in other models that we think you guys should adapt based on like our reporting. And so here's a couple of things that are updated. One is that the open call for application you know, we create the RFP and the ecosystem goals then there's the
so what are you showing because like I I didn't see it, and I want to, you know, be following the same thing. See,
yeah, second item in the pre read and link to in the, I think second item in the agenda.
Link right here. I get Yeah. So the biggest thing is that what we're what we're gonna do, you know, we have all these ideas that came in. Some of them have a program manager attached to them already, like somebody's saying, here's my idea. I would like to be the program manager. Some we would connect a great program manager. We got some really great applications, but we want to make sure that it's the person that wants to run that program right and adds interest. So then what we will do is have a phase where we actually give them a planning grant, which is a small grant for them to very clearly defined success against the Arbitrum ecosystem goals that we've put up. And you know, hopefully in the next week, we'll be putting in those two snapshot as well, to get some idea of ranking of those. Then, the idea is that they get the planning grant and then we from there. You know, they define the their pilot program and its success. And then we bring that to you as a board to say like, Do we all agree these are good success metrics, and then all of the programs would then end by the ninth of August. Such that we have time to do a proper evaluation process that is defined and agreed to during the planning phase. So there's both the thing of are they successful according to themselves and their own stated goals? And then the the expert review, which would be like some of you guys may be or you know, other Arbitrum ecosystem people, we select to some experts. Then there's the community led review, and their self evaluation. So their overall success score is then a combination of that self led review and so hopefully this blog science edition creates a great process for procuring pilots of expert services that could even be used in other domains outside of the grants program.
That's also a great so After that, if you scroll lower on this page, if you could scroll lower than this process needs an update. Like this diagram, that is shown.
Yes, yes, you're right. Actually, we just updated that a couple days ago and didn't get that part updated yet. Okay. Then the other thing was in terms of the other page for the deliverable tracker I think Rebecca agreed with you quite a bit that the other way that I had originally documented, those miles or the deliverables was a little confusing. So that was a first attempt to go ahead and make it a little better and, you know, maybe she can reach out to you on the side and we can hit up any of those specific things in there to make it to me, I think it looks a lot better. But I was also the one who made the other one that's really bad. So I think your opinion might be better. directionally hopefully it's good. Yeah, it can
consist of different things. So like, I would like to understand because like the basically the contents change, so I would like to make sure that I understand correctly, what what's in it, and that we are still covering the same stuff. So I like the direction, but I would prefer for it to stay for longer than two weeks. Like,
right, right. It makes sense. And hopefully, hopefully,
this will stay for longer right now.
Just to be clear, content is almost identical. We copied and pasted everything from one page to the other. It's really just a formatting change. In order to try to make everything clear and either easier to understand based on your feedback. So I mean, the the
sorry, I don't think so. Like in the previous one. I don't think that we had like 25,000 New Arbitrum users interacting on GG 20 or 90 validations completed by teammate. And taste right now. So I am saying that and I'm not questioning those. I'm simply saying that the content of this and the previous one is different,
or different differently. The updates that you saw would have also been updated on the other form. This is just the latest iteration of the numbers. goals based on we're not
taking anything out. Yeah, yeah.
We can definitely highlight where changes are being made or things are being updated if that's what you're drawing attention to.
Okay, like I don't want to dig into that but I don't think so that it's just I just additive. But I don't want to be frustrating to be honest. Like I don't want to waste time on that. I just want to make sure that we have something and it's something that is a bit like I don't fully understand the the framework part in the current deliverables. Table, so that's something I'd like to discuss, but I don't want to cross check back. Like I didn't think that just additive.
Okay. Krzysztof you said that, you know, might make sense to talk about some of this offline definitely happy to do that. You know, I think Rebecca or sorry, Katharina and I could go through the budget with you if you want to talk about budget details and you know, and Rebecca and I could go through the the scorecard or the the deliverables milestone document. You know. But definitely the intention is for this to be the working document that you see consistently that stays attached to that Resources page and is always there for you to reference and will remain consistent. So I think we're basically just getting our processes together so that as we're rolling out all the programs that come through the RFP, you know that we've got this framework in place and these the resource page for you.
Is there any other questions? We kind of jumped right into the RFP process and I think burried the lead of the of the RFP process, which is that as of today, we have 50 applications almost for the for the programs and 35 for the program managers. Our goal was 30 of each so you know, the process closes tonight at midnight at midnight UTC, I should say. So, just wanted to take a moment to like thank Rebecca and everybody else who's played a role as well as all the board members so I know if have encouraged people to apply and direct them to the application. We're just at the beginning of like doing the actual assessment and you saw the process for doing that assessment in which I was just sharing document that Rebecca graded. So yeah, just just wanted to say yeah, 55 ideas. 38 pms as of now. Thank you up to the minute live data. So yeah, I I can tell you, at least from a cursory read that there was definitely a lot of really potentially impactful and positive stuff in the, in the proposals. So I think we're going to have, you know, the problem of having too many good ideas and needing to sort of really zeroing in on the ones that are going to be the most effective and impactful for the community and looking forward to start rolling them out and bringing them to you guys. In the in the next couple of weeks. As you know we get the reviews going with community advisors playing a role and bring these to you guys for final decisions about uptown roads. Anything you want to add to that, Joe?
There were a couple that really excited me like after doing the session with and sharing the thing on the forum. We actually had a few people reach out like with like, really cool ideas. And some that like struck me as unique. Like, once we wouldn't have gotten without like the RFP process and everything we've done to go through it, where like one of the programs suggestions is a re delegation program with like multiple phases and tiers to like, reward people for not only thinking and re delegating, but also like educating themselves in ways around like, who they would want to delegate to why and what tools are out there to help them learn about it. So I thought that was a really cool program idea. Another one was for updating like, like maintaining and keeping like updates on like, the hub and the connection of data between the grant programs. So it's like a, you know, a nice unique suggestion there and then like the direct to contract incentives, you know, there was like an idea from, you know, rabbit hole a while back where they thought about direct contracts and sensitive things and doing it with like an outside program manager from them even and just showcasing that idea. And it was kind of a cool idea that we could test something at a very small level to see if it works for very specific objective output. So you know, I'm not sure you know, we gotta dig in more to see if those are going to be approved and but the idea that we're getting these unique things, oh, yeah, and, uh, streaming, quadratic voting to like pay DAO contributors. That one was pretty cool. I like that.
I mean, definitely a whole bunch of novel mechanisms and interesting approaches to measuring success. They'll definitely be a refinement as the go deeper into these ideas with people about exactly what their budget will look like and what their sort of requirements are. But the intention is to, you know, keep this moving forward and to make sure that there's kind of an ongoing flow of opportunities for people you know, in the time between now and the end of August and sort of wrapping up the program for September within our six month window just for for kind of clarity. So, you know, each of these programs should be able to deliver funds and demonstrate results and have an analysis done. within that timeframe. We've made that very clear to everybody.
out of 50 programs, think we were done selecting, like less than 10 to give planning grants to and then probably not every one of them ends up getting a pilot approved.
Joe, do you want to say more about that workshop? Definitely invite you all to check out the forum post, especially if you weren't able to attend the workshop in person. That was the next thing that we had on the agenda. You touched on it a bit, but do you want to would you mind just kind of giving us a bit of a sort of what happened and what were the outcomes?
Yeah, so you know, it was attended it was a few less delegates than I was hoping for, but there were a lot of people who were like, you know, have been in the ecosystem and active so that was great. What I want to do next is send around a survey, like DM it to top delegates and maybe 20 Top delegates 20 or so, you know, really active people, you know, some from off chain, some from, you know, foundation and then some people that are just active in the DAO. Right. And the purpose of doing this is to see anything that we missed, and add it into there or if there's anything that people are really against. So it just a very quick survey format, be able to double check on that. And then the ideal would be, you know, hopefully next week, potentially the week after but before we're making the program selection planning grants, we have put on snapshot idea now is to do a shielded vote so people don't see what each other are voting with a weighted choice, right so they can put as much commission emphasis on the ecosystem goals they think are most important. And then we get rather than just a ratification we get like an importance level. And, you know, we can take that into account when we're choosing which programs select
Go ahead, Krzysztof.
Yeah, so like I like the direction very much especially like this. I don't think that most delegates attended the call. But still I checked the list. I think that some of the goals that we have outlined, require some discussion. I will go through it. I don't know when to be honest. But I need to find time to go through it to comment. There are things that sound good, but like when you when you think about it formally. They don't have to be necessarily that great. Like for example minting, AWS natively on Arbitrum. You know, sounds good, like, Let's do things natively on Arbitrum. But like when you think about it, first of all, it might not be the best choice especially for those where the AWS you like, there is a reason why we say that we inherit security of one. And one of those reasons is that like, things that are breached, to Arbitrum can be breached back, even if Arbitrum is no longer than five years from now. So you know, if you own for example, T bills, which we had, like let's say that we have Tally Tbill that are minted natively on Arbitrum that you are taking a bad dive into more than 10 years from now. I would say that there's like, much bigger chance of Arbitrum Oh, sorry, it's real. Surviving next 10 years then Arbitrum. But But even without that. Another thing is that if we breach if we breach those AWS from from main net, then we increase the TVL of the of the Arbitrum by you know by something that is canonically bridged, which is like much more like we like if you look into different buckets of TVL on Arbitrum You know that this isn't some shit coin pumping, you know, just for the sake of pumping TVL on but this is actually a real thing bridge from Etherium. So like this, you know, I say that this is one of the things that I'm not necessarily against native Arbitrum, but rather this is questionable. So that things that may require additional discussion before we vote on it, but overall, I think that's a very good direction to go with about that in that
awesome. Great to hear that and appreciate your feedback. Coming to very much appreciate anytime for stuff says he likes something means a lot. Thank you, sir. Anything else to say about the workshop? I guess we could just add that we just did the coaching session for grant managers so there's there's going to be a cadence of community events of various kinds but in terms of the goal setting chops I think Joe late
Sorry, sorry, sorry for interrupting but I need to go unfortunately and as I mentioned previously, like I like I have an overlap during this hour. So like I will be like if we keep this hour the type presence here will be shrinking from week to week. And I need to unfortunately go from now I will watch the recording afterwards. Thank you very much.
We'll we'll we'll definitely revisit the scheduling conversation. Krzysztof has gone there. We did do a little informal poll in the telegram. Thanks for setting that up. Kat. So maybe just at the end of the call, we can just really quickly touch on that. I know we're missing a lot of people right now. So maybe that's a sign that had been a different time might be better. coinflip you had your hand up earlier I just we kind of glazed right over you did you want to jump in? Now
that was actually in response to something Krzysz was saying but I think I raised that let me let me take that as an all fun job with Krzysz share about the case on RWA's for this all to see and am I able to log I've been struggling to log into whatever links you guys have been sending but I am working on it.
It's possible that I sent you the wrong version of a link. Let's just make sure that we got the right ones for you. Was it somehow
I've managed to get into what I think is the right document but it's
just lost you on mute, sir but uh
it's the it's the it's the board resource dashboard that does not seem to be opening for me. I can't seem to get that to open
well that's sucks let's make sure you get in there. That's pretty important. should be in the red and also linked to here. I'll just I'll share the correct link with you momentarily. Hopefully that kept it for you while on the highway in Germany, Katarina, is clutch. Yeah, I
think my email needs to be authorized that's all it is. Okay.
It tried did make sure you're you're using the one the link that Katarina just added there. I think when we first created this deck it might not have been set to public share. It could also have something to do with Brave. We're using Confluence and Atlassian tools which are, you know, very much restrictive in terms of access generally. So, you know, we've set these things, okay. So it shouldn't work. It's it's finally
open. Now. Okay, great. So it's weird. It's actually not logged in, but it's letting me access. So, yeah,
that's that we set it as a public page so you should be able to access it without logging in. I think I accidentally sent you the internal link first. cleaning that up Kat. Okay, we're actually pretty close to the end of our agenda. There's one kind of bigger thing to talk about that's in the requests for help. Which actually you're not seeing the link live. I think I have to share my page and
actually this might be a great way to have a conversation here is you know, there's I want to make sure that we're not over indexing on only Krzyzstof's opinion, like that their shared opinion. So one thing that we're doing is like going with the more narrow like interpretation of scope of like, we should not manage any of the grant programs that we select. Right. And I think that's totally fine or Fair facts what the interpretation should be. I want to communicate what some of the impacts so some of the impacts are like, Klaus, you know, he was a little summer getting that proposal up. So now the time Telly would pay him is a little bit later. And our team doesn't feel comfortable doing the loan that I had suggested maybe. And really, I think with a narrower scope, we shouldn't do that. But also even giving him a grant or something so that he has funds today. What am I says about us having funds available is that we can move faster than the tally. So like that's an impact. We had a great conversation with SheFi, this is a second one. And the foundation wanted to spend 70k on it. And the sponsorship was 125. And we said we'd have to structure it as a program somehow. To fit it in where maybe we have 100k towards, you know, things happening, outcomes being generated, like people getting placed into work with like Arbitrum protocols, or providing services Arbitrum protocols, and so forth after the cohort where they learn for eight weeks, and it just slow things down and didn't work out and we couldn't be like, yeah, Arbitrum Foundation you're given 75 We'll give 50k and then we can create a program that's totally legit just a program paying out for outcomes of actual grants right without, like the sponsorship felt like it should go to the DAO. And I'm actually not trying to say I think these should be something that we could approve fast, or we shouldn't. What I want to understand is like, from each of you, like would you like us to have a program that we run with some level of you guys being able to say like, no, that's stupid. That's just you giving out a grant Joe? Would we like a little bit more flexibility? Or should we keep the very narrow scope that maybe we're I'm just worried we're over indexing only on Krzysztof's opinion.
I agree with all of it. I think that um, you guys playing shortstop or like, you know, us playing a position that kind of fits in between is where a lot of that value comes from. And so like getting off like those two initiatives you just brought up, like over the line is what makes sense to me in terms of the agility that you have, and a lot of the benefits that we saw on the on the previous, you know, initiative, so I don't want to lose some of the stuff I thought that made it special and I thought the ability to move quick and and make quick decisions is was part of that, you know, special sauce so,
so I agree, but I think that I think the one thing that we need to make sure and this is where I think the the gap was that we went through stage one was, we ended up just over indexing on it felt like only the short term ones, and then we didn't end up with the long term plan. So I think what's very important is that if you're taking on these extra initiatives, to sort of, you know, help quickly steer them, move them forward. It needs to be done in a way where we don't come back and X number of months say well, we weren't able to put in place the long term, the long term program because that is actually what we all said, you know, we kind of like there was a lot of value added, but it wasn't the value that we originally intended. So we need to just make sure we don't do it. Not saying everything is obviously at the cost of but we just can't do it to make sure we don't end up short on that. But I definitely do think that if I would even take your existing framework that you have presented, which is where if somebody has a program and there's a small amount of additional initial money for them to start working on something, it would have almost seemed like saying, Here's a program but we're not even going to allocate the long term money for it. We're only allocating some immediate short term unlock money. That is what we're actually effectively awarding. That is what some third party like a close or somebody is then or or the team at Shefi is working on. But then they need to then go to the DAO or somebody else to unlock the remaining money they have to go to the foundation they go they go to the DAO in theory, eventually I would think some of this activity which you guys are doing in the short term, if we can also create proper systems around it. That's something that you can then hand over to the Opco in the future, because it's actually I think the opco that eventually becomes more of that infrastructure to help provide that immediate short term pieces. And then not these actual programs turn into programs or what come in under you guys. I think, at least that's what I think I understand, but I could be wrong.
I think I understand that too. And I think that that helps me to say like, maybe we were going to do the gov votes program which a writer was the program we did that funded like the open black labs, it funded open source observer, a funded you know, region to do the DAO financial report and I think that program is like milestone based, you know, grant funding, and we can allocate some amount of funds that then any grant that we're going to do we bring it here and say, here's a grant we're planning on doing this week. Right? And it's just one grant. And here's the milestones. Does anybody you know, object wants to veto and if nobody wants to veto, we just go if we do want to object and you know, then we use the rules we wrote out. A and we did put it the opposite in the charter. We just weren't sure if we should even approach it. But if you guys appreciate us having some of that capability then I think that's a good stopgap for this season. And yeah, coin flip, I appreciate that we need to build the long term structure. So even some of the things like the snapshot vote we're planning on doing the ecosystem goals this time. It's less of a vote and more of like, showing us like heat mapping directional but in the future, you might say like, the selection of those goals and the selection of programs, all runs through this process we've created, which uses snapshot and decentralized review, and so forth. Yes.
And just as a reference, it's gonna sound like a weird one. But if I think about what you said about season one, and you picked out a handful of items that were very good, and there were these short term strategic items that played out in the men's value. It's gonna sound weird, but if we end this season, and the three big wins were the short term gap things we did. I'm also gonna be questioning why do we need this entire program because it sounds more like what we really need. That is a small thing to keep moving these small initiatives. And so obviously, I know that's not the case, but I'm just That's why I just want to stress that, you know, it's almost like even the winds that come off the short term stuff is not really what I'm going to give credit for as to how we view our success but we should be doing it to help unlock things and hopefully that hand, hand over, you know, hopefully some system also for how you do these small quick items to the DAO in some other ratio then move forward.
That's great feedback. I really appreciate emphasizing that that. Yes, we want to be able to do this. We think it's a good function, but the the win in your opinion for this program is not that do not shift focus, build the long term system. And yes, it's great if you know you can do a few of those and it does help us move forward. I appreciate that clarity.
Just speaking of clarity, I just want to make sure we circle back to this specific request from Klaus se because he's waiting on some sort of a response for me. Just I can add a little bit of context here and this was a super helpful and informative discussion. Thank you for raising it, Joe. And speaking of Joe, go, Mackenzie, I think you're the one other board member here who I'm curious about your thoughts on all of this, but maybe we could kind of how's it within this discussion of of the hackathon support. I included a link to what Klaus has requested from us. Basically, he has this funding proposal, which I'm sure you've all seen, you've probably voted on. That is, you know, close to getting funded. It's gotten well over 90% support on snapshot His problem is that he has a very short turnaround time for booking venues at this point. And with the time it's going to take to go through tally and for the funds to get released. He asked us if we could front him somewhere between 25 and 50k to basically get him going so that he can make this happened. And then you know, could pay back the loan as soon as the funds come from the foundation. You know, and as Joe mentioned, there's a little bit of discomfort with this because we are really trying to sort of operate within the sort of, you know, professionalism and approach that you know, we felt was the direction we were getting from the community and from this board. That being said, you know, I definitely agree that nimbleness is super important. And, you know, I for one, you know, think what Klaus is doing is definitely something that should be supported and I get the kind of bureaucratic problems that he's having right now in terms of timing. Just for a little bit more information. I had a series of conversations with close yesterday and this morning, where we even considered a standalone program that we could try to get approved for an investor just to give him some cash flow and sort of attach some additional components to the hackathon that he's doing, which sort of are in line with what he's planning to do. After we talked about it a fair amount. He has actually submitted the idea that that came out of our discussion yesterday, which I think was a big step in the right direction in terms of sort of what that proposal look like from the from the first draft we saw. But long story short is it seemed like the best approach was still to come back to this group and have a discussion about loan as opposed to talking about, you know, a standalone proposal for a program. And I don't know, Joe, I don't know if you're in my speaking out of turn to mention that I know that members have given personal loans in the past to help us as
well. Well, I mean, you know, that's one of the things like when we were wider scoped like in general, like I felt like hey, anything we can do that makes the DAO successful. We should do so like, I mean, we didn't like parade it around. But you know, Sean and I gave him like, almost 25k in loan last time, to be able to pay for things in time. Because the foundation was being really sticky about like whether or not they would do it. I think this time if we as like a group of delegates put pressure on the foundation to front, the payments for you know, the hotel and the down payments and so forth that we need for the venue that they would do it this time.
I was I was about to just say the same only because he's now a whitelisted vendor who has been put into the system as has received payments, and they have the and they have now the only thing I would expect them if they wanted to be pedantic they'd say can we at least see like the snapshot vote pass so that at least we have high confidence that we are, you know, giving funds or loaning funds to something that you know, we assume the DAO supports. They may not but like you know, we assume they will? Yeah, and I don't know how quick their processes are internally like that's my only I haven't recently.
I mean, I imagine that Klaus' company wouldn't want to take on the liability and the events, then it doesn't pass right. But maybe
he does. I think he just literally doesn't have the cash. Yeah,
but I mean like, what if there's a low probability but what if it like it didn't get approved and he's now out of pocket? 25 grand so like, are we going to like who's gonna is vanishing going to forgive those I'm assuming so. All right. Yeah, it's a difficult problem for sure.
Who was it was was it mainly Patrick, who was dealing with it from the foundation side?
I'm not sure he's been dealing with them directly and just telling us about his experience. So I mean, we could definitely circle back and talk to Patrick or others directly ourselves and see if there's anything we can do. I definitely get the impression they're not particularly eager to do a lone before the before the the tally vote passes, and from the way that Klaus described it at least and there's some detail in his in the document that I shared that link to in the agenda there. That I mean, basically he's like nine weeks out venues or he's running out of places that he can book before ECC At this point, basically. Joe left hopefully he'll come back to this. Yeah, Joe Mackenzie? Yeah, I
mean, my personal take is I'm in favor of doing the loan. I thought Arbitrum was presents a token 2049 was somewhat lacking. And I think it's just really important. We have a good presence, ecc. And if you know, two, three weeks delays, it's getting a venue that disrupts the whole thing. I think that's not a risk we should should take. So I'm in favor of it and like to conflict when DK point I do think part of this program's value is the ability to move quickly when governance processes move slow, but again, coinflip is right around that this is that's one function that this program should play and it should be much bigger boards and stuff which I know we're not discussing now. So I'm in favor of it and in favor of like taking the risk. If it doesn't go, we eat the owl because I think the cost of not doing this is is greater, even though I had some personal frustrations with Klaus for moving so slowly, he sort of placed himself into this position by promising gov hack but then taking months and months to get the proposal done. But we will make venue like look if you have to do Arbitrum Speed Networking for a day like we'll make use of the venue he books because we need to have presence. Yeah,
I mean, I I don't remember where I read this, but I know that Arbitrum is going to have they're gonna have an Arbitrum day ECC and I know there was the question of is the gov hack happen at the venue, which ECC is are the Arbitrum de is that are we spending too much on ECC to that might be where the foundation is coming from too, but then potentially.
Hmm, interesting. I didn't speak to Patrick and he seems to be very strongly in favor of doing the Gov hack. Obviously, that's one comment, but it sounds like in addition to anything else that's being organized.
Yeah. I mean, if you have my support if you want to give your loan, regardless, but yeah, you might want to wait until it passes snapshot just to have the additional
Yeah, I agree with that as well. What's the date that the snapshot ends ends May 2 So we're two days away from the snapshot vote and
are there enough votes that if there's any chance that it couldn't pass?
Was it No, it's gonna it's gonna pass?
Yeah. I think it's probably pretty safe to assume that it'll pass. I mean, there's always the chance that it doesn't get through tally in the same way but Oh, yeah.
190 million to 300k 99.5. Yeah, that's gonna delegate speed ran through. I mean, that's the speed. But you know,
that's one of the things one of the things that may start to happen here, by the way is now that Oh, snap, I noticed has been configured. There is a there's gonna be some logic for us actually shifting, you know, a couple of million ARB into a wallet that can theoretically drawdown off of snapshot funds. Just put caps on them. It's kind of a better verb. It's a it's a more clean version of the well, the advanced wallet or the you know, we were talking about doing
which is actually what we're proposing for the fire starters program. So stay tuned for more on that. Perfect. Sorry, DK Go ahead.
No, I understand. That's cool. We have a snap enabled internally is useful. I would be scared to use it with the entire Arb treasury, but maybe
a small wallet that's been set aside, we can put multisig overtop of it just for safety.
For this test, I think we're talking about like maybe put 250k or something into a separate multisig have Bobby from another Ryan almost set it up and tested out at a small level so be great pilot cool.
So guys, just
Is that is that does work well, then you guys then taking that and proposing that for the whole DAO to be able to also do its own small work. This is I think will will show great progress.
Yeah, that's a good way.
It's kind of cool too, because it's got a natural mechanism then for who can propose a Firestarter? It's like anybody who can post a snapshot, right? And if you don't, if you can't, then you got to commend somebody who does have that amount. Right. But it clarifies that.
Yeah. So if I'm reading the room properly, I get the impression that you all would be okay with us. Taking steps towards this loan with that sort of assumption that this snapshot is gonna go forward. It's also worth saying that I mean, it is quite possible that Klaus is grant proposal actually gets approved and this could just be whatever money that comes out.
There's another component to that actually, that I didn't mention. I my internet went out there for a second. But I think we should have the foundation front the loan and it not be us.
If we go that approach, and they say no, then what would you guys like us to do?
Hey, man, you guys are the you guys are the managers. I just know that you have my support, whatever decision you make regarding this.
Okay, cool. That's
good to know. What other other things you guys should know? Is like, we actually aren't in the position yet where we can, you know, the second of this month, you know, April 2 was when the tally close up, and was supposed to be basically paid out. Right. And it paid out to the multisig that you know, has primarily delegates on that we don't totally control. We actually had it, send the fee over to our wallet, and then sent it back immediately upon request of the foundation because we didn't have any agreement signed. And the problem is, they want to, you know, us to take it all as income and do full liability this time. So they don't have to do any of the operational work, which is cool. We're just negotiating with them a grant on setting up another Cayman foundation that is mandated to give away grants on behalf of the Arbitrum DAO and then set that up legally, totally separate from like thrive. So we're going to do all that work and stuff. But um, you know, we still haven't fully negotiated that. So that's where it's at. If you're wondering why we don't have the funds yet or whatever.
I'm not sure anybody knows for for this tougher the for ECC. They didn't name a few people to be on a multisig, right.
That was a separate proposal.
For ECC. Yeah. I just want to make sure that there is a multisig that's been set up already for this
I'll talk to Klaus and Jack That's fine. Yeah, cool. Okay, perfect. Yeah, I think the only thing is just just coordinating. You guys are giving the loan Dude, give us a heads up so that that way, and we'll just try to push foundation and everybody else also, let's see. Let's just make sure we don't ended up giving team moans. That's all right.
Yeah. Okay. Fabulous. Okay. Well, that's very helpful feedback and and I really appreciate you guys taking the time to talk that through with us. I will definitely report back after we have conversations with the Foundation and others and try to figure out how to make this work. The only other thing that was in the requests for help was reward opportunities. On ThankARB. We thank our pages live. There's a link to it right there. And in the in the forum, you can always get to it. We're going to thankarb.com Basically you'll see a bunch of reward pathways for people who are participating in the Gitcoin grants 20 as well as for people who are part of the RFP, there's going to be a sort of an ongoing stream of these different, you know, incentives to try to motivate people to participate in things in various different ways. We can definitely dive deeper into some of the logic behind those as pieces roll out, but just wanted to put that on your radar that that was up and live now and there's all kinds of opportunities for people and this will tie in to the to the review and assessment of projects and how we will pay people for doing that work as well. So this just get a visit first little taste of what that looks like on our end. Anyone last questions, thoughts, things that people want to make sure that we touch on? What we're all still here.
I'd be interested to know how you guys think the program's going so far.
Sorry, go ahead, Joe.
I honestly I feel like it hasn't started, like in my opinion, like it feels like it's like moving but it was really exciting seeing all those RFPs and ideas go through
Yeah, I'll second that. I think Joe just lost his internet. So I'll I'll definitely second. The the part that I particularly have been feeling good about is just all the conversations I've been having with people who want to run programs or be program managers like it's been the light share of my time in the last week. And you know, just a lot of really excited people with interesting ideas who've been very open to sort of iterating and refining their ideas like it just it feels like we're creating the foundation for something that's pretty exciting. And at least as far as the Gitcoin grants 20 component of it. goes, you know, the rounds running much smoother just on Arbitrum than it did in the last round when it was on a bunch of different chains. You know, we're seeing about a 34% increase in donations, which is, you know, probably at least partially attributable to, you know, the fact that it's all on Arbitrum So, you know, there's been something like 15,000 people who've been transacting on Arb so to see you know, and and I think we've got something like 35-40 projects, who've, you know, indicated that they're building on our job, I think there's probably going to be at least 50 or 60 within the end of the week, you know, that are coming through this that we're going to be able to like assess and take a deeper dive look at you know, sort of using our new rubric and all the pieces we put together. So, in that sense, you know, feels like we're on track anyway, I'm definitely excited about where things are going. And with that, Thanks, Joe. Any other questions, comments, thoughts, feelings. Maybe we can give ourselves four minutes back
all right, cool. Well, always a pleasure, guys. Thanks again for your time. Stay tuned for more updates in the telegram channel and yeah, keep an eye on that. Dashboard. We'll keep adding the weekly updates the forum posts that go out anything else and we'll definitely ping you in the telegram channel just to let you know when there's something new in there to go take a look at. So yeah, thanks again. Have a great week. See you tomorrow, if not sooner or sorry next week, if not sooner.
