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Virtual Hangout [#39] | Otter.ai

Virtual Hangout [#39]

Night Club1h 50min

Unknown Speaker

00:00

Broadcast medicine, looks at.

Andrew Holecek

00:02

I don't know what 40 weeks ago, Andy. I mean, long time ago, we started as a way to chat during the whole COVID lockdown thing. And it just it's just continuing which is wonderful and so usually what I do is a very brief spontaneous riff on something. No real prep and then we just have q&a and discussion but today's gonna be a little bit different, because I think there's a massive elephant in the room that needs to be addressed that was starting to come to the surface last week with Ted's question about, you know, how do we deal with as he put it, with a shitshow in Washington. And so I think we need to talk about this or I recommend that we do. So what I usually do. You know, I drafted the things I want to share with you I literally just just finished drafting my notes. This morning so I didn't really have time to polish things on one level that's okay because I think maybe the more kind of heartfelt spontaneous thing, and would be helpful here so I don't try to, you know, domestic size. Too much what's going on here. But if I don't get through all my notes today that's fine. I want to allow plenty of room for discussion on this and I'm going to give some guidelines for for our discussion, and hopefully I'm interviewing Sharon Salzberg on Sunday and I'm gonna see if she wants to go here as well, to really talk about what's happening. But one of the things I would recommend and this is a little bit like connected to some of the suggestions I might have towards how to relate to what's happening on a daily basis, is I started every day with practice I end every day with practice. And so, what I recommend before we start to frame this, or almost any other way unframed, what's happening, or recontextualize. Let's just do a one minute, practice together. Of all the practices that we do I think tonglen is the most effective. The practice of sending and taking my suggestion is as we go through this material which is so charged, that we even take a few minutes and I'll guide us through these, you know these one minute. One minute, one breath meditation session so that we just stay grounded with what's really happening, and in our bodies and what we're really feeling and don't just get lost in conceptual reality. This is a way to hit the pause button, hit the mute button when things just get too hot to settle down. I wouldn't say internal rhetoric but you get the idea. But let's start with one minute of tongue man, I think many buddy, many buddy, there's an interesting word many buddy, many buddy, many people anybody everybody knows, on the

Unknown Speaker

03:07

breath

Andrew Holecek

03:08

through every pore of your body. You breathe and of course it's not you, you're a representative of the cosmos so the cosmos is bringing it in every pore of your body you bring in all the heavy dark pain discord that's happening. And with every outbreath through every pore you radiate goodness Peace Love tranquility. And I do this, I do tonglen now more than I have. because of everything that's happening so for the next minute with a very basic construction I think most people know this practice. Let's just do one, one minute of tonglen together and then I'll start with my little presentation. Okay.

Andrew Holecek

05:21

I think these sorts of. Pause buttons are good for a couple of reasons they they keep us grounded in what's really happening within us. I'll be talking a little bit more about how we confabulate catastrophize. And so they keep us a little bit somewhat centered, because when things go a little bit haywire like they are now, it's, it's a loss of center, losing our seat and also doing something like Tung Lynn reminds us connects us to others, that we're not just doing our little precious gatherings a little precious spirituality. for escapist purposes I'm going to talk more about that, but we're fundamentally doing this to be of benefit. And so what does that what does it really what does it mean to be a benefit and how can we be a benefit. So as I go through my little riff here today and again I'm going to try to limit myself to like 40 minutes. So then we can, you know, we can have discussion because I think the q&a and inviting you to share is important as we go through what I have to say and I also recommend this when you're listening to news. And often, What I recommend around situations like this is that we listen, not only to the people that we agree with for instance if you watch msnbc CNN and the like, which I do full disclosure, you know full, full disclosure my bias is Liberal Democrat, I voted for Biden. I did not vote for Donald Trump. I think most of you probably know that but what I do, I just I I do on occasion, and it is a challenge is the type of reverse meditation I listened to, to Fox News I listened to Tucker Carlson sean hannity and others, and I find it first of all extremely difficult to do. But if I can't listen to them. How can I ever hope to communicate, how can we ever even think about reconciliation and the culture wars. And so it's contracted as I get is repulsed as I am. Sometimes I have to hit the mute button sometimes I have to catch myself from throwing my shoe through the TV. I do that is a way to work with my own reactivity my own contractions. My own aggression my own anger and also as a way to try to listen to something that is so disparate to the way I see things so as I go through my little riff. A couple invitations notice what you feel. Notice if you find yourself feeling contracted your heart rate going up your blood pressure going up. If you do feel that it. I'm going to do this even for myself if I start to notice myself getting a little bit riled up. I'm going to hit the pause button. We're going to do a one breath meditation. We want to feel these emotions. We're not trying to become emotionally sterile a septic antiseptic. We want to feel what we're feeling but my maximum is feel it but don't feed it, feel it, but don't feed it, because if you feed it, then you lose contact in my opinion so if you find yourself getting riled up, or even offended by some of what I'm going to say. You might also ask yourself, why, why am I feeling this way is the information getting too close to personal. Is it in fact challenging my comfort zone my spiritual bubble bath, am I feeling too vulnerable. And I also when I work with this I remind myself how reconstituting both anger and fear are they're incredibly solidifying emotions. And it's very easy. I've seen this a lot in the death and dying business it's very easy to default into anger. When things are falling apart because nothing makes me feel more solid than anger. And so if you find yourself getting angry you might want to look at that I'm going to talk a fair amount about anger, how to use it and not be used diet, this is a big part of what I want to riff on how can we use this energy and not let it use us how can we use it and not abuse it. and also along these lines. Notice how quickly. Again I'm speaking about myself how readily how quickly I FedEx, out of my body and into my conceptual mind into conceptual proliferation per Poncho. And fundamentally just lose contact so whenever you feel these kind of escapist kind of uncontrolled contractions. Pause one breath, drop back into your body,

Andrew Holecek

10:22

and so on. When I was when I was going through, you know, I saw Ted's question last week in all candor I saw it on the list of questions. And I was avoiding it. He put it up there very early on and I saw it, I just didn't want to go there. And I looked at that, I even the avoidance at the time, I'll show you a little bit more like why I didn't go there last week until the very end. But it has to do with what I want to talk about now and that is that if we don't think and I'm speaking very personally indirectly here, if we don't think that that meditation spirituality can in fact meet the current social crisis can meet politics or in fact if we don't feel that something like a meditative spiritual platform is not in face. In fact, the place to discuss a really gritty grimy dirty things like even politics. First of all, if that's the way you feel I actually honestly advise you to sign off. I won't be offended, maybe it might be best to skip this in the next session. Because we're going to talk about some really charged stuff and and I think if we don't do that of what value of what relevance is our meditation and what relevance is our spirituality, it absolutely positively catapults us into a cascade of near enemies and spiritual pathologies which, some of which I'll be talking about spiritual bypassing, which is absolutely epidemic. And so, with some of these kind of initial comments and caveats I'm going to speak with a little bit more directness than I normally do. And unapologetically, it becomes comes across as political if you interpret it as devices divisive or even contentious so be it. We can talk about it. But I feel it's it's time to be a little bit more at least from my side. Direct about what's going on and how we can use spiritual practice meditation as a way to skillfully engage what's happening, instead of running away from it. So when I saw his question last week it's like you know I didn't really want to go there. Part of it was for this reason is like is this the right platform should we be talking about this. And the other thing is, I didn't think I was ready. Because the full impact of what happened i mean you know this thing happened a week ago Wednesday, we met Thursday. It was so surreal to me that I wasn't able to digest it, I turned on the TV and and I thought well, it gives us like an independence day sequel. Is this really happening and it was so stunning. That I literally couldn't grok it, I couldn't digest the magnitude of what has happened. And actually it's continuing to happen. And so I avoided Ted's question because it's like, I'm not sure I know what to say here, I'm still I'm not necessarily in denial. But it's like, I'm not sure what to do with this. And so I've spent a lot of this last week I had a wonderful conversation yesterday David Lloyd and I went for a long walk. We spent most of the time talking about exactly this in fact I will share with you a wonderful three part, meditation, because I asked him, I said, David, what do you recommend. When people ask you what do you do with this so I will share with you this little powerful three part guided meditation, that he gave me I'll share that with you. But it really took me a while to grasp the scope of this and the more I digested it the more repugnant repulsive. It became I mean, literally, physically nauseating like I want it to throw up. And it's absolutely, positively Shakespearean in scope I read this op ed in the New York Times review a number of years ago there's brilliant, there's you know there's their total liberal and I mean you know at least they're my peeps they speak my language and I think that the New York Times review is pretty brilliant. And I read this really interesting piece from a scholar who talked about how what's actually happening now is completely Shakespearean in its scope. And as you know,

Andrew Holecek

14:34

in most of Shakespeare's plays the climax always comes at the end, it always gets worse at the end, the murder the disaster the drama always happens at the end. And so his comments were completely prescient. This could have been written four years ago that the closer you get to the ends, and you know, the question is will we in fact be at the end of the 20th, the more tragic it becomes, and boy, these, these words are really coming to marry. So I think it's time for us at least for me, everything is relationship to me how I feel how I'm working with this struggling with this wrestling with this. This is one of the things that I've been working with for a while is that there's a lot of conversation about, you know, being PC right being politically correct. I think you know there's some validity to that. I I don't think there's enough conversation about being s c spiritually. Correct. And by this what I mean a little bit what I was talking about earlier, is this really profoundly damaging fallacious notion that somehow it's anti spiritual to get angry that I have had I've had criticisms of Believe me leveled at me. People have literally come to me after a particular expression, and they say well that's not very zanla view, you know, you're not being Zen I thought, literally I had one person say, Well, I thought you were more Zen than that. And and another person in a different situation. These are all true stories. That's not very Buddhist view. And I, you know, boy. Yeah, you can imagine what I almost said but didn't say, but my immediate response is well that's really the way you feel you don't know anything about them. You don't know anything about Buddhism. You are projecting your precious sterile versions of spirituality and meditation on to me and not to the world. And somehow that thinking spirituality is, you know, this kind of archetype of the distance, this dis differentiated dissociated, you know, individual sitting and ultimate retreat on touched by the issue is that the unwashed masses right, such a naive in mature spirituality naive spirituality. Real spirituality has teeth. I mean really solid guts and I'm we're gonna be talking about that so if if your version. This is a question for you. If your version of meditation and spirituality is just really a form of metaphysical value. If you're just trying to sedate yourself there's some provisional validity to that. This is a colossal near enemy, in my opinion of the mindfulness revolution. I am going to be talking to Sharon about that, because I'm writing a book on it. You know if you just want to feel good. There's, there's provisional validity validity for that. There isn't provisional validity for being sedated pacified that's where mindfulness will take you. But as I've said over and over. Starting with my first book the power and the pain in my estimation the spiritual path is not about feeling good, unless you're talking about basic goodness, completely expanded sense of foundational goodness, spiritual path is not about feeling good, it's about getting real and getting real means dealing with really difficult foreign aid Earthbound issues everything that we're seeing this taking place in the world. And so, I actually saw this quote, just this morning. Let me read this to you. You'll see here, this is I can't remember who wrote it because it was actually sent to me. Without attribution. I remember reading this I can't remember where so I can't attribute it but you've probably heard variations of this right, so here you go from some spiritual master, no doubt. And again, there's, there's some truth in here but you'll also see a hornet's nest of near enemies here, at least in my opinion. So here's the quote, always recognize the dreamlike qualities of life, and reduce attachment and aversion practice good heartedness towards all beings be loving and compassionate, no matter what others are doing to you, what they will do will not matter so much when you see it as a dream. The trick is to have positive intention during the dream. Now he's not just this person misses me. I'm not just talking about the nighttime dream sorry about this dream right.

Andrew Holecek

19:13

The trick is to have positive intentions during the dream that is this, this is the essential point this is true spirituality and quote well is it really, maybe this is part of true spirituality, if we run around in these raging forms of absolute artistic thinking absolute spiritual bypassing. And this is a colossal enemy with the stuff that I writing and reading about dream nocturnal practices dream yoga illusory form saying everything is a dream. It's a very dismissive comments that leads, not to healthy differentiation. But the pathological dissociation. And so if this is your charter. I don't think this is to spirituality, I think it's part of it it's part of the picture. Because otherwise things just become too anemic, in my opinion so along those lines again and again, pardon that this isn't particularly polished I literally just threw these notes together this morning. I want to. Before I talk about anger and how to work with that spiritual bypassing and how to work with it, all the things that I started to paint, I want it. Again, maybe back up for just a second to recontextualize and set the right view, because in many ways I'm trying to do that I want to be a little bit more articulate here because you know it's a fold in the Eightfold noble path right view is the first of the four factors, it's really important so that then we contextualize reframe what we're doing. Otherwise we lose our vision, we go non lucid and, and that mean lucidity on a very, very deep level is absolutely what's happening now people are just losing it. They're going completely not lucid to what's happening in the world right now so the writing view that's applicable to us here in my estimation and I've been riffing on this for if you've been paying attention to my stuff for quite some time now is that if you. I think pay very close to the nature of reality, mind and its display. I have no doubt whatsoever and I'm convicted on this I'm writing by the you can reduce the vast complex display of everything that happens in the world and I mean everything, nothing is left out of this to the spirit to fundamental spiritual principles and tenets psycho spiritual principles can explain everything. really. I believe this has ultimate explanatory power. And so, that in itself is helpful to understand and so what we are working with is in fact throughout the stuff I read right on and riff on. We're working with these absolute irreducible aspects. But sometimes they're so foundational they're so far down, they're so fundamental that the display that arises from that it can no longer really be efficacious these teachings on one level can become so subtle, that it's like trying to stop a tank with a flyswatter. And so I'm going to be talking a little bit more about how we can use these incredibly elegant beautiful, powerful explanatory teachings to inform everything we do. And then also translate into more skillful means that sometimes require even force, even I mean wrath, we're talking about real wrath. So the other thing I want to talk about are the four karmas what they are, and in particular the karma of destruction. There is a place absolutely 100% for wrath. For anger, and for destruction. It's in the tradition. So, one of the most summary statements around this, I heard from john Kabat Zinn, I think it's just beautiful in its impact and again this is talking about the foundational aspect of what we're doing when he says this. When you know the mind fully. You get beauty, the arts and all things wondrous. When you don't know the mind fully, you get Auschwitz.

Andrew Holecek

23:21

And so really on a very real level, again, everything that's taking place now this super samsara samsara on steroids is because these individuals don't know the mind, fully. And you know you get these inflammatory processes, trumpism, literally, Sam Harris now who, who I like this guy he's got he's got a real cutting edge to him. He calls Trump derangement syndrome. I don't know if he made that up but you get the idea. And so, what is fundamentally happening here absolutely positively is indeed reduced to developmental issues egoic inflammatory issues, issues where ego itself is an arrested form of development everything can be reduced to these fundamental truths. And once we break away from these truths, once we break away from non dual truth into duality. We enter the world of fake news and everything we're seeing in these gross epiphenomenal expressions of fake news, even in the way the politicians are using them. 100% guarantee they can be reduced to these foundational fake news principles, the principles of duality altogether. And so I want to throw that into the mix because on that, on this level. What we are doing in our programs and our teachings and so many other skillful people we are dealing really very, very powerfully with everything that's happening in the world but we're just working with it, it's levels that are so subtle so foundational so irreducible that they can pack can be extremely feel extremely removed from what's happening in the world. And so I think it's helpful to throw that into the mix and so to return to this developmental thing. Now, eu itself is a necessary part of human evolution, fundamentally, ego doesn't really exist, it's an illusion. But we reify it, and it goes into what's called skismo Genesis or runaway. And then you get things like we're getting now, I mean the classic diagnosis of what Trump is a malignant narcissist Zena phobic massagin is power mongers in all his cronies in in Congress and then all the, the army of 20 million in his army, I'll give you more specific numbers, these are the 20 million fanatics.

Andrew Holecek

25:48

These are reduced to basic egoic inflammatory processes and so, you know, King Donald right, the emperor who fundamentally has no clothes. And some of these clothes are being stripped away with what Twitter and Facebook are doing good for them, you know, King Donald and his idiots republic of trumpet Stan I think that's the other term that's coming out, you know that the idiots republic of trumpet Stan, the numbers here are really scary. I'm preaching to the choir here but I want to say just a little bit in case you don't know 74 million people right I think 74 million voted for him. He has 89 million followers or he did on Twitter. Some 20 million is what I'm hearing now literally they call them the army of Trump. And this is a real serious thing if you literally don't think and I've been in denial about this. If you literally don't think that civil war is a real possibility here. You've got your head in the sand and I have had my head in the sand as well it's like no this can't happen here. But absolutely, positively it can happen here. And we see this, these types of expressions that are, you know, based on what we saw last week. I personally don't think it's going to stop at all. I think we are going to see more violence for sure. lunatics because these people are quite literally willing to kill and die for their cause it's it's the phenomenology of runaway belief phenomenology fanaticism that when you reify things to that level you are willing to kill and die for your beliefs, and some of the stuff that's happening. I mean I don't need to go into all that we can talk endlessly but by just be repeating what's happening on the news. Some of this stuff, the more of the stuff that's coming out is increasingly disconcerting 90% of Republicans still think the election was stolen that democracy is really at risk. And from this is born from these types of reified ideologies and true ultra fake ultra fake news is more fascism and nationalism and things like that if you think that somehow this world, Western world is somehow immune from that, I think we're all kidding ourselves. I was listening to some, some conversations with some of these q anon people really scary stuff, you know, these, these folks who literally, literally believe that Democrats many democrats are. This is no exaggeration or child raping cannibals when you actually try to present them with the facts, is you know they they become extremely defensive offensive proclaiming that you're the one that needs to wake up there, in many ways, you know, some people are saying these folks are unreachable. And these, These are the ones that are really profesh quite terrifying. This is where, in my opinion, this is where I'm going for help and understanding this kind of mentality we need the help of professionals psychologists sociologists, cultural anthropologists people who really work with this type of thing using history as their, you know, kind of resource their references. So, the more I personally digest this it's taken me days, because the you know the shock is so intense for me, the intensity is so much the more repugnant it is. And, you know, how am I going to deal with that. How am I going to work with that. What, what am I going to do I'll share a little bit more personally about what I'm working with and how I'm dealing with it but for us now. Fundamental teaching of the Buddhist tradition is in fact impermanence everything ends. Roman Empire ended civilizations ended. I've been to some of these great ruins Mayan ruins Angkor Wat these great civilizations. And if we somehow in America and our narcotized culture, somehow feel that that democracy can't end. We're kidding ourselves in right now. Norm Chomsky that my friend David Loy said this Noam Chomsky, you know, credible student of the Western world says we are living he said this months ago, we are right now in the most dangerous point in the entirety of human civilization in history. Right now, when I heard this from David several months ago, like many others. Oh, that's just hyperbole that's just you know people looking for clickbait looking for their sound bites. I don't think so anymore. What's happening here is really a catastrophe and I run around often you know I work with this myself I'm a kind of a minimalist when people kind of lose it, and they confabulate and they go into runaway and they start to catastrophize. I often find myself coming in is a minimizer no it's really not that bad. I really have to work with that propensity now because I have been minimizing what's happening. It's definitely a catastrophe what's taking place, literally. And so, I'm one breath meditation. One sit meditation for me.

Andrew Holecek

30:57

Allowing one want to get a little bit more, connect this to a fundamental problem that I see within myself. And I see in spiritual communities. Spiritual bypassing. I want to talk a little bit about spiritual bypassing. This is a term that was coined by brilliant psychologist john Wellwood, he kind of in a certain sense was riffing on what program he talked about spiritual materialism. Spiritual bypassing is a kind of a subset of spiritual materialism. I'm doing a lot of study research on this right now because I'm going to be presenting I think some stuff, even with David Lloyd on so so I want to read to you. Excuse me, a definition of this term. From a psychologist Robert Augustus masters who wrote a book by this title. spiritual bypassing. When spirituality disconnects us from what really matters and so this is a good book I wouldn't say it's a great book it's a good book. Again, who am I to say first part I think is really good. So this is the way he defines it, and then we're gonna riff on this a little bit and then we're gonna talk about anger and how to use anger, and that anger is not at all anti spiritual anger has a place. So this is the way he defines it as spiritual bypassing is a very persistent shadow of spirituality manifesting in many forms, often without being acknowledged as such. aspects of spiritual bypassing include exaggerated detachment emotional numbing and repression. Over emphasis on the positive anger phobia blind or overly tolerant compassion, weak or too porous boundaries lopsided development, perenne, cognitive intelligence often being far ahead of emotional and moral intelligence and perenne debilitating judgment about one's negativity, or shadow side devaluation of the personal relative to the spiritual and delusions of having high, having arrived at a higher level of being. That's pretty good. Boy, that's pretty good. That covers a lot of territory. And to me, has a tremendous amount of explanatory power I mean when I read this stuff. And this is kind of jumping ahead to a part of my prescription. At least I'm working with it is like checklist Okay, does this apply to me, right, check,

Unknown Speaker

33:29

check,

Andrew Holecek

33:30

check, oh hey I spiritual bypassing busted busted. So, this is not only a very interesting kind of intellectual topic for me this is a very personal topic for me, that I work really intensely with this now. You know, it's very often that we see and others what we don't see in ourselves, what am I not seeing what am I not seeing how am I contributing to what's happening is my silence being complicit. And so working with this stuff is not easy blind spots, by definition, are blind spots they're really hard to see. And all these people that are doing what they're doing, I promise you just like Hitler and Pol Pot and many of these other folks they did what they thought was right they were willing to fight kill die because they were so convicted in what they're doing is the right thing to do. I mean, really think about it if you drink. The Kool Aid and feel that this democracy is being stolen the election is stolen. What would you do. And so these people that have reify this without you know not willing to open and challenge what they're feeling. They solidify and then from that brought about these extremely offensive and defensive reactivities.

Unknown Speaker

34:47

So,

Andrew Holecek

34:48

there is a place Let's talk now about how all this relates to anger in this kind of anti spiritual ridiculous notion that anger somehow is not applicable. There is a place absolutely 100% on the spiritual meditative path for tough love for anger raffle complete on compassion is not an oxymoron, it has a place doctrinally to put it into contexts. Let me just talk very briefly about the four commas, these are very interesting kind of terminology because they're four acts karma literally means action. The four karma is actually when they're performed purely our actions that don't create karma. And so what this therefore means, if it's done properly raffle anger. No raffle activity actually can be karma free. If it's driven from pure impulses and pure motivations and that's the key so the four karmas, we don't have time to unpack all four of them. An extremely powerful set of teachings, the karmas themselves are pacifying, that's the first approach

Unknown Speaker

36:00

enriching

Andrew Holecek

36:02

magnetizing and destroying and Trump mpj talked a lot about this and there was one quite famous example of it. I wasn't there but people who I know were there were trooper and he went through these four karmas. I don't think he was talking about them, but he actually manifested them in the course of this particular event. He was teaching in. It was conveyed to me teaching in a live session. And there was a person in the audience that, that, you know, like, really started to lose it got up stood up and started to unload on ir mpj, and rip a che went through the fork harmos tried to pacify him tried to engage him work through the enriching brought him forth magnetizing. And then, after a relatively brief period of time. He quickly determined that these three wouldn't say provisional Congress or not provisional these three first commas were not efficacious enough they weren't getting the job done. And so he unleashed the fourth karma. He had these, these little kind of they're called custom kosong these Dharma protectors these kind of, you could say Dharma protectors of truth. I don't want to say, you know, like military police but they were there people there to just ensure the environment. Very very brilliant way that Trump J. Trump Russia, even US military, which is about the most anti spiritual thing you can think of his genius was to even bring military principles within the spiritual arena and so he lashed out and ordered the kasan forcefully rapidly to get that mofo the EFF out of there. And so he cascaded through all three and then they weren't working so he went, you know that right to it but he cascaded through and engaged the wrathful karma. And so you know they're they're always in a philosophical, bring it back to a little bit of philosophical principles there's often discussions about the sorts of things, you know, here's one extreme example. This is a kind of a colon in philosophy and morality and studies of ethics like if you're in a room with Adolf Hitler. And you have the opportunity to take him out what do you do you take him out. And you read you know read the literature, there's so many stories of previous lives of the Buddha, where he you know one instance he killed in his previous life he killed a person who he knew was about to kill all these people and sink the ship. And so this is what Robert says about anger rebellious this Master says about anger. And this incredible trap that I see in the spiritual community and also within myself so I'm talking very personally here about the near enemy of a kind of emotional asceticism or even emotional celibacy where we think, oh you know I can't get angry right, you know, it's, this is not being spiritually correct, it has no place. Well bullshit. It totally has a place. So this is what Robert says, we can treat anger as an ally and enemy, an inconvenience, a regressive activity or resource, a means of aggression or a means of deepening intimacy. It's our choice. We're not here to outgrow anger but you outgrow our dysfunctional ways of using it. And this begins with knowing anger well, and then he goes on to say in a really powerful way. Anger is moral fire. Whether it is destructive or constructive is in our hands and our hearts. It's all depends on how we relate to this energy, in and of itself again situating it in Dharma lingo. This is the energy of the vydra family. That is cutting incisive clear, and that this particular Avenue has has its again it has this bandwidth applicability and so

Andrew Holecek

40:18

the appropriate real relationship is really the issue, how do we in fact engage this energy properly. How can we relate to it instead of from it. It's also interesting kind of doctrinally that of 100 and peaceful wrathful deities, that represent the archetype of the, of the awakened mind. There are more wrathful deities than there are peaceful deities. So if you do the math on that working with wrath working with aggression, not being afraid of confrontation, whether it's individual, or in this case of social standing up saying no and this is this is the other thing you know, especially with all the meditations I've been teaching I've opened awareness. The power of saying yes, the power of radical acceptance and I'm not criticizing it at all. When we're working with our own mind and heart we're working with our own experience. We really do is extremely helpful to work with unconditional Yes, I'm perfect just the way I am like Suzuki Roshi says he says you're perfect just the way you are or what do you say we're all perfect just the way we are who we get each use improvement is fantastic. So on one level when we work within radical acceptance unconditional love for ourselves is absolutely true. But there's also a place for the big fat No, in fact, Trump, he wrote a very powerful article, I think it's literally called the big know where, again, these energies come into play, setting boundaries being raffle expressing anger, without being aggressive and even there it's interesting the etymology of the word aggression literally means add grass, literally means to step forward. It just depends on how you're going to step forward like now how do we step forward. So even aggression, fundamentally is not inherently problematic. So for us, and then I'll give you some little some really practical things this is all laying the groundwork for what I hope will be a fruitful discussion today and maybe next week. What do we do with all this stuff and there's so much more to say. But for today. I want to allow opportunities for you to speak. Can we in fact in a tantric way and alchemical way. Use what's happening, transform obstacle into opportunity. Well, we have to we can but we have to be careful because, as I mentioned before starting with the virus. Studies have shown that when things fall apart. The default is actually regressive. It's not progressive, so we have to really, really examine what regressive and mostly reactive. Relationships are versus progressive responsive relationships and so connected to this is what the I'm reading a book now. Many of you probably read it a classic book by a biologist Bruce Lipton called the Biology of Belief, I highly recommend this book really tour de force on the biology of epigenetics super interesting things. And and Bruce is a really pretty clever guy and he talks about their how it is that actually crisis crisis ignites evolution. And what exactly is that evolution, it all and how can we engage in it all depends on how we relate to it. Everything is about proper relationship relationship to what's happening in the world, our relationship to our own interior landscape, how we can relate to things instead of from them. And then from that more and this is where spirituality and psychology are critically important, where we can step into the world, not completely lost in our projections. I mean if we don't do some cleaning up at home. We are just plastering the world which we're doing all the time with projections and so when we step into the world. How do we know if we're really cleaning it up or just further adding pollution. That's where the inner work comes in. Before really we work with the outer world so I do think that there was a lot of I mean some people, including Bruce, I listened to this entire thing on what was called the earthkeeper summit, five six speakers, including Bruce Lipton talking about what's happening in the stage this obviously was released before last week's crap show about how these speakers were genuinely excited about what's happening, using dissipative theories, you know, related to chaos and complexity theory dissipative structures, there's all kinds of physical metaphysical even scientific principles that can help us understand what's happening here. Very often, you know, before it gets before light breaks it's always the darkest.

Unknown Speaker

45:02

So,

Andrew Holecek

45:03

I want to leave you with a couple of things that I'm working with. And then let's talk about this. Again, there's so much to say. But let me just say a couple things like okay well what do we do with all this Well, let me tell you what I'm doing, how I'm working with it and I love to hear what you all are doing with this. So, what do you do well on one level of course it's up to us. Do we default into indoctrinated ingrained habitual karmic patterns, again, those are generally regressive or do we look at these things authentically honestly painfully. And in an exploratory way, discover our roles in what's happening. And, and therefore, do the necessary work that allows us to step forward properly. I started And like I mentioned earlier, and one thing that's critically important for me is I start in and every single day with meditation, because it creates this larger framework for me this larger context where I sandwich I hold my day within the embrace of space within the embrace of wisdom kindness, compassion and love. If I don't do that. I go non lucid. I just lose it during the day. I get swept up, I get lost. I get really pissed off. What good is that going to do so for me personally. Meditation is key. It helps me recontextualize helps me see more properly helps me unframed and reframe everything within this larger truer embrace because, excuse me, whether it's 50 years 100 years, even a bigger topic will we even be here in 100 years. I don't even know anymore. But if we live if the civilization continues for 100 years. We will look back upon this with the lens of the perspective of time. Einstein showed us that space and time are inseparable. We don't have the luxury of waiting 100 years but space. The inseparability of space time, you work with space that can create the perspective of time. So I step in and then I step out. I get my 50,000, foot view, I try to look down from philosophical psychological spiritual developmental principles and tennis I hold it that way. But the kicker is that I don't stay up there, then I come back. And then for me it's a very active open question What more can I do, so I I work with this kind of multi layered approach because I'm a multi layered being. But what I take refuge in is this larger open spacious wisdom embrace from that open stance, I find myself much less reactive more responsive more open, or able to touch into my own reactivities, and therefore I can communicate with with my family, who I love to death but are hardcore. They still support Trump, it's, it's staggering challenge for me. I love my family, but they are hardcore trumpsters. How am I going to ever see them again. Part of me just says I don't want anything to do with you right. And the minute I feel that I'm going well wait a second you know this this is my blood. These are my peeps on one level. How can I deal with them. How can I relate to them, how can I, you know, connect to them. So I work with that. I can't do that if I don't have this larger framework. I mean, I'll just unload on them the way they unload on me, right. So, and so also, again, what role do I have is Trump, in fact a symptom or a cause.

Unknown Speaker

48:40

Both.

Andrew Holecek

48:42

Both is a colossal cause there's no doubt about it he needs to go away like yesterday. He needs to be taken out like right now. But the good news, painful as it is, is the diagnostic component that he is symptomatic of this underlying disease that is now just raging to the surface, and again, from a 50,000, foot view, no coincidence that are not a coincidence I should say that the epidemic is reaching its also its absolute crescendo I mean, could you ask for anything more Shakespearean. We just need a comet to come by. Actually, that probably could help right now, honestly, if a comet was was coming this way that actually could help, because then we all unify against the effing comet so we need a bigger enemy, but you know really at this point. Let's just have a couple asteroids come down I mean really, it's like, what bring it out like what else can we possibly get. At this point, I had talked about Shakespearian right. So what is my part in this What am I not seeing. I try to work with the energy and I work with it even now, as this stuff comes up I find myself my I find my heart rate going up. I take a breath. I slow down. I connect to what I'm feeling here, because otherwise just like the idiots that stormed the Capitol I'm going to lose it. In what what good is that if I can't hold my seat. How can I actually work with others. Again personally for me. Media diet news diet. When this stuff first broke. I was like everybody else. You know who maybe doesn't have a job. I was watching this crap four or five six hours a day, because it was like, it's a little bit like ambulance chasing on one level it's like oh my gosh, it's like perversely entertaining. And then after a while that toxicity I don't know how people like Rachel Maddow and all these people live in this world. I don't know what kind of purification practices allow them to do what they're doing. It's so toxic. So for me media diet. I personally just mean I limit what I take in two an hour these days, because otherwise I get obsessive I just get so sucked into it. That's not healthy. So my I stay away. And I also realized if I get too involved, I'm giving people like Donald Trump and all these other idiots. More power, I am actually being shenlong, I am actually empowering them with a power that boomerangs and then they have more power over me, they actually start to control me. And I'm not gonna let that happen. I'm gonna maintain my control my rigor. So, maybe I'll talk a little bit more next week about what really needs to happen, I recommend you listen to two interviews, the recent interviews to podcast Sam Harris, he's another I listen to his stuff he also inspired me to do what I'm doing now, his, he released a podcast this weekend last week where I 100% agree with virtually everything he says, just brief parents medical interjections they're absolutely. This is again. Okay, I didn't Polish any what I'm presenting to you, larger scope absolutely diminish the power of the executive branch, so it doesn't have this this potential for perversion increase election transparency and security so people can actually have trust in the election. There's so many practical things that can be done that we can help with that we can call our congressmen and our senators just pick up the phone and call them you can actually get involved in this type of change. Change. And you know what I want to leave you with again I have more to say but I want to converse with you. Transition this sometimes potentially sterile view of bodhisatta activity to what my dear friend David Lloyd talks about his ECOSOC GPA, or in this case political Safa. How can we use these incredibly powerful spiritual tenets to save democracy. It's amazing that I'm even saying that to save the planet, how if we can't use again. What we're doing here in my opinion is irrelevant. What benefit, you know, why not just take a valuable drink of beer and watch a football game. Right. This real body soft activity, it means engaging these types of things. So I'll say more next week about. I just have noticed to myself more specific things, not falling into single action bias there's obviously a whole cascade of things I want to cover. I'm already over, over time, but I want to leave you with this reflection from my friend David Laura he shared with me. Because I asked him, I said, David, what are you recommending, and he shared with me this three part meditation.

Andrew Holecek

53:37

So I'm going to share it with you I just find it really helpful and then let's, we can talk about this. And because this is such a big topic, and I hope I didn't race through it too quickly. We're definitely going to come back to this next week because I hate to say it, this is not over. You know, this is not over. So more later but three things. Number one, reflect on your own situation. Your capacities what you have to bring into offer. In other words, there are there there are both limitations and blessings to things like our age or health, these are this is all David stuff, our age our health, our abilities our station in life, our skills our training, education, all the resources that we have. So, when I asked David, you know like what do you do and he goes well the first thing I recommend is I don't give hardcore prescriptions. Even though I think there's there's some validity to doing that. Mostly he he basically in good spiritual way saying do this work for yourself and figure it out on your own. Again this is gonna be super interesting to talk to Sharon Salzberg about on Sunday, and I'm gonna release this talk, ASAP as soon as Monday. Because her latest book is called real change. And I'm going to talk to her, in this context about, you know, Sharon's a real senior voice, real change at this level. What does it mean, how do we do it so this is a start of a series of things I want to share with you. So number to reflect on the possibilities available to you in the situation you are in or the location where you live or where you could live the problems that you're facing so for instance this political thing, or things like fracking things like pollution things like I mean like no shortage of things to choose from. Right. So what else to say here, reflect on your network of contacts or connections, things that you can actually engage your particular skill set, what can you bring. And then the third thing he says and he says most important. Open up listen meditate. What tugs at your heart. What tugs at your heart, look deeply within, and here's what I do on this one as well. conjoining it with some other work I'm doing. Ask your body. Ask your body, literally, I'm almost to the point of supplicate, I'm actually doing this now may sound goofy I'm suffocating my body to teach me to give me insights through dreams, through spontaneous insight. This is the work of Reggie Ray I just finished reading his fourth book on somatic descent I found it really good, where you can really work with your Soma with your body and quite literally supplicate helped me understand what I can do here. And then notice how perhaps a spontaneous insight might appear a thought that seems to come out of nowhere, where did that come from a dream that come it might come out of nowhere, so to speak. If you really open your heart and mind. You know, very, just like milarepa said phenomena are all the books, one needs. The world will always show you an in fact almost command what needs to be done. If we're listeners, if we can really hear what's happening. So, that's enough for today, again, so much more to talk about but I do want to share some stuff here from you, questions or suggestions about this little q&a and I have to limit it for to half an hour I have to leave it at 230 my time will pick it up later. This is just the beginning. I recommend that before you ask your question, you pause can connect jackleg like David said connect to what you're feeling. Hmm. Do I really need to ask this Do I really need to say this. Take one breath. And then don't speak from here. Speak. From here, speak from your heart, speak from your body. Touch into what you're really feeling, not so much what you're thinking.

Andrew Holecek

58:06

And then I think from that we can have hopefully a little bit of conversation with you know 106 60 some people, obviously, we only have so much time and so I will try, I want to create a platform where we can listen to each other. And so I asked you if you want to make some contributions. Notice, be a little bit caught interest aware of time, that if you're running over the 345 minute mark, Andy and I might just politely say thank you so much, but we want to let other people come on the stuff is so charged I mean really, maybe we'll do more, you know the opportunity to really express share is super important, but I think you understand the limitations of what we have here, so much much more to say but I'm already running a little bit over the time I wanted to I didn't want to race through get to speedy, which is what I'm trying to do for my end. I lose disconnect from my heart then I go into my head so let's finish, together with 30 seconds of tanglin. Okay, just to reconnect 30 seconds and then we'll open it up for discussion. Okay 30 seconds.

Andrew Holecek

59:50

Amazing. I was, I think I shared with you, I was doing a little bit of reading in the heart math Institute. And some of their studies I think I shared with you have shown that you can facilitate open heart. Heart brain coherence with, with one five second in breath one five second out breath. You can bring mind and heart together. Just imagine, visualize what would happen if people in Congress did this. What would happen if people in these incredibly charged environments before they storm down Pennsylvania Avenue. If you had how many, I don't know how many 10s of 1000s of people were there, they all pause right i mean what a utopian, instead of the dystopia we saw utopian kind of vision, like, Okay, before we start down Pennsylvania Avenue, with zip ties. I mean, Lordy right. We're all going to pause together. Right. For 30 seconds or let's make it let's make it a minute. Hey at this point I'll even take one breath meditation. And we all everybody pauses and connects talk about inner disarmament. So what we're doing here has tremendous power, one breath meditation Tomlin inner disarmament cannot connectivity tremendous power. So, welcome to share. I will give a little bit of a front of the line to my dear friend Ted who posed the question last week this is all seated with his question that I did not want to answer. So, Ted if you're there and want to say something I'll put you to the front of the line to honor you. But otherwise, open floor for the next half hour

Unknown Speaker

01:01:35

at 10 is here so let's bring on Tim.

Unknown Speaker

01:01:42

Hi, Andrew.

Speaker 1

01:01:46

Let me share how I asked the question and thank you for really expanding on I think it's a discussion we all need to have the way I am dealing with it is first of all and my little older, along with Chen razie, the Dalai Lama, and the Buddha, and Christ. I have a statue which I got just after Trump was inaugurated of him taking the oath of office. And I, I do this with. When I see all the terrible stuff that's going on. I turn that mirror to myself. And I've got every single one of those seeds in me. And so, when I watched that I like you was just, just hooked. And I've never been sexually abused. But I felt as if I was being raped. You know, and so, even with that, even with that I had great compassion, not only for Trump. But for all the people with that diluted view and it's hard. You know because I, I recognize that he like all of us is the result of infinite causes and conditions. I don't condone the behavior in any way shape or form. But I have great compassion for the suffering that he and those people must be experiencing. And so what I have tried to do is I've tried to deal with some of my friends who are lifetime Republicans, and had discussions with them. Some I can discuss with some just, you know, put me off as a wacko liberal, but the. For me, I'm. I'm much more and sometimes I think it's maybe it's a little bit, you talked about this a little bit pollyannish. You know that oh things will work out. But I have, you know, I have an alcohol and drug addicted family, and the expression that that we've been told and we've experienced is each one of us needs to reach our own bottom. Yeah. And I'm hoping that this is an example of the United States of America, reaching their bottom with hope. And that we can come up with this dysfunctional. There's only winning, or there's only losing and coming up with compromise and I've started to see some of that but I'm sure I'm over my three minute time limit. So,

Andrew Holecek

01:04:54

thank you. Okay. Thank you. Appreciate that yeah there's there's there is reason for cautious optimism, but there's also that reconciliation with realism, but thanks for the offering your thanks for seeding all this for with your question. Appreciate it, my friend.

Unknown Speaker

01:05:08

All right, next we'll bring in, Elizabeth followed by

Unknown Speaker

01:05:11

Kareena.

Unknown Speaker

01:05:22

Hello. Hi.

Speaker 2

01:05:23

Hi there. Thank you very much, Andrew and Thank you, Ted. I come at it from a slightly different position. I spent many, many years in political office, and you know I've had the death threats I've been in the statehouse when the demonstrators have come in with their arms, My seatmate carry the gun the whole time that we sat together in the Vermont Senate. So, you know, I can definitely relate. But eventually the reason I decided, you know, after many years of getting up every day and throwing myself against the wall, trying to change things in a relative way. I just realized that ultimately that's not going to be where the real change takes place. And so, I just want to Harken for a minute to the teachings of Shanti Rashid. Okay Where, where you take on the relative level, you look at the three natures but on the ultimate level you tap in to, to the, to the dharmakaya energy that written from which everything comes from. And I heard this very week of really beautiful little way that suddenly ricochet put this, you know, so you turn on the TV and you see people rushing the Capitol Okay, and immediately it all conflates and you know you you know and you've got you've articulated some of it Andrew very well how one feels right. Okay, so that's, in a way, one's own diluted or imputed nature right. If one can take a look at that and see how much one is bringing to the situation, and how much is really there, that's the beginning place. So then if you go to the healthy relative nature. Yes, there's somebody scaling the Capitol and it's not good. And we're angry and kind of go from there. But you begin to look deeply, you know, and you really like begin with the equanimity aspect of the four measurables, you know we're all we all want to be happy, we all don't want to suffer and and really kind of go through that right. And that's the aspiration bodhichitta. And then when you really look at how much you've imputed on to the situation and how much of it is just real danger, then hopefully you can get to the asker to that aspect of bodhichitta where you're ready to act. But you're coming from the place of May these beings have happiness. May I take responsibility as Ted said for what I'm imputing. In May I have access to this energy and to this goodness, may I supplicate. That doesn't seem weird at all. It's the essence, may I supplicate to all the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas Dalai Lama and or whoever it is the inner, outer phenomenal gurus, the whole nine yards. I mean, imagine the Dalai Lama went through this exact same thing. You know, and so I think that we really have to on the relative level. Look at how much we're imputing on to the situation. And then on the ultimate level, really try to purify and then we have the action. Then we have the all accomplishing action, not coming from an angry. And using the Dharma to justify it but then we're coming from that other deeper place so thank you for the forum and,

Andrew Holecek

01:09:06

yeah, thank you for that contribution with that that's really brilliant and comes from someone who, you know, really walks the talk and his has been on both sides. relative and absolute so terrific contributions spot on. Couldn't agree more. Thank you so much.

Unknown Speaker

01:09:23

All right, next we'll bring in Kareena, followed by Christopher.

Speaker 3

01:09:32

Hi. First, I want to say hello and thank you for this space. I've been coming here for some months, but I never, I never spoke before. Welcome, but thank you, today I feel that I want to say something because I have some experience from this. Okay, I left a marriage with a man who were like, if you would have been living in us he would have been a Trump supporter, I see. And,

Unknown Speaker

01:09:59

and I had

Speaker 3

01:10:01

talking about anger like you do, and as a woman, it's, it's a difficult thing because I mean I obviously can be angry and I can really stand up for myself when I need it but there are situations when you cannot do it because it might be dangerous. Right. And, and I think that is what we have to deal with here. So it is very complex and it is very difficult. And also I do not know if what I found out after leaving this marriage, which was like it was worse than I knew really, because when when I left hell broke broke loose. And I'm not so sure about what you said about this, about suffering because what happened after I left was, I have not seen any suffering there.

Andrew Holecek

01:10:48

I'm not sure what you're referring to here so maybe help me suffering on his part or what do you mean,

Unknown Speaker

01:10:52

yes, I mean, obviously, in some way, but

Andrew Holecek

01:10:56

what Ted was talking about. Yes. Yeah,

Speaker 3

01:10:58

yeah. What I want to say is that this, we have to do with people who are really, like, I mean, talking about Trump suffering, I, in one way yes but in another way, I'm not so sure. Yeah. And I don't know what to do about these things and what I have found out I left with three teenage sons and they were. I was like, in the end, feeling that I had to save them from becoming something that I would not want to see them become. And, and I think maybe that's, that's what we can do. Talking about doing I'm not sure what what we can do about these things and I mean my, my ex he was a very nice and beautiful person in many ways he had read all the data so he was. But anyway, this happened. So I mean, things like this happens. And, and it seems to me that when those thoughts are getting implanted it's very difficult to. It's like, I don't know, I don't know what to do really. And I think what we can do is maybe save the young people to really people with consciousness, really be where, where people are that are seeking and. And that I easily getting lost to prevent people from getting into these kind of forums and conspiracy theories because once they're implanted, it's like hell you can, you can't reach the person anymore because they found, and they know something that you don't know and I don't know what to do about such a thing I mean what can one do I did not know I tried for years but I could not.

Andrew Holecek

01:12:44

Yes. Yes, exactly. Great, great questions and comments on offerings and just a couple things came to mind here. Yeah once once those kind of thoughts are implanted what to do well. I mean what we're doing, without being too cute with words here is we can do thought transplants, you know, we can look from our own side, how we do that with others not so easy, but from our own side. We don't have to take what arises in the mind to be so solid in fact we don't have to take it at all in so this is where you know the power of the mindfulness revolution, which does have limitations has tremendous capacity we can do a kind of a thoughts transplant. And then eventually a completely different relationship the thought itself so it doesn't stick at all because the fanaticism can be reduced to that. However, I do agree a little bit not a little bit I do agree with what Ted said in this way, that we don't see the degree of responsibility that, you know, Trump doesn't express it your, your ex didn't express it. My understanding and experience that this is that we express towards others what we express towards ourselves and partly what happens here is that the suffering is so far down it's so covered it's so buried, that the person no longer even has access to it I read, I don't read much on this but I did read, Mary Trump's book you know she's a psychologist who also I don't know what she's like a niece or something of Trump her book too much and never enough, how my family created the world's most dangerous man is a very interesting book because she relates as a psychologist in fact to the historicity how it is that this meal you have toxicity Trump's father. I mean, you listen to it in a little bit like head. Oh my gosh, I actually do have a little bit of compassion for this person. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to go out there and cut his head off. If he isn't available to the means that can actually bring that suffering into more direct relationships so these are people where they practice an entire life relating from states of mind instead of to states of mind that they're so far from that initial discord that from the outside, they, there's no sense of remorse there's no sense of conciliation or responsibility, simply because they're so far removed from it, that they no longer feel it but I actually would argue is as Ted puts forth that if you take it down you will find this tremendous inner discord very deep deep beat within, but that's the issue it's so far down, it's so deep it's so far in the past that even a lifetime of therapy sometimes we'll do it. And then the question is what to do, that's very difficult question where Honestly, I think we need to listen to, like I mentioned earlier, the cultural anthropologist the political scientists the social social scientists, psychologists, they have skillful means they can be I think more applicable on these relative levels than spiritual technologies, but in short, thank you so much for your offering I'm glad to see you're in a better space. And let's keep our fingers crossed that our hearts open and see what happens

Unknown Speaker

01:15:58

right. Thank you. And next we're bringing Christopher followed by castle. Hey Chris Are you there. Yes, I am.

Unknown Speaker

01:16:18

Here we are.

Speaker 4

01:16:21

Thank you so much, Andrew. Welcome. I am. I've been taking your book study, dreams, life for the past 10 to 15 weeks so that has been wonderful. Thank you for that. But I wanted to make an offering number. Number one, I wanted to say that part of what we're looking at in the United States is a country that partially has been built on the lie of stealing Indigenous People's lands in stealing, people who were formerly from Africa, stealing their bodies. We have never really as Americans, taken a close look at those two issues. I could talk about the formation the US Constitution, but I'll leave that for another discussion. Those two issues right there, since they have never really been resolved in this country have gone a long way to being a cornerstone in what we witnessed last week. Unfortunately, the tragedy witnessed in our country. Last week, on the flip side of that in Germany after the Nuremberg trials, and this was in one of michael moore's recent movies. They have taken a close look at what happened during the formation of the Nazi Party in the 1920s and 1930s, and up until Hitler got elected Chancellor again by a lesson majority vote, just like Trump or years ago, going to move on to why men, feeling the way that they do. And because what we observed last week was mostly white males and some white females who were performing the acts as they did on the Capitol Complex in Washington DC. There was a study in at the end of 1914 by a woman from Princeton, her name is in case she worked with a gentleman by the name of Angus Deaton, and they studied cohorts of white men

Speaker 4

01:19:04

who did not have the same job access opportunity, and were engaged in unfortunate things like addiction and unemployment. The whole list of things. These are components along with the deregulate deregulate deregulation of former government programs that reached out to people in this country for about the last 45 years that have set the groundwork for a person like Donald Trump who. Four years ago, at least went into hollowed out cities like Dayton, Ohio, Camden, New Jersey, and Detroit, Michigan, and spoke to the white constituents of those cities, and at least honored, where they were coming from so obviously they attached to what he was saying, then they voted for him, and they still feel very much attached to his message. And his actions. He is a masterful communicator and a masterful propagandist, and he has been able to align these people in his favor as we witnessed on Election Day 74 million of those people voted for Trump and a smaller percentage supported him last week. So, in conclusion, Andrew. We have some very very deep issues to address in this country, in order to number one resolve the original lies that this country was founded on and address people's very deep needs to have the basic basic things in life, to be able to feed their families. By putting food on the table and putting a roof over people's houses and with government policy being the way it has been in this country over the last 45 years. Those have been very, very difficult issues. So I thank you for letting me go ahead and articulate these no I appreciate that

Andrew Holecek

01:21:32

very well said and again spot on. It's not just this is why I'm such a big fan of integral theory right. It's not just an interior thing, it's a phenomenological, it's a cultural thing it's a social thing it's a historical thing

Unknown Speaker

01:21:45

that work great for yeah

Andrew Holecek

01:21:48

yeah that these are all things that really need to be teased apart because again in this kind of dependent origination way. These are the CO conspiratorial factor is talking about conspiracy at the ultimate real levels. These are all the CO conspiratorial factors that come in to create this display. And so until those are all teased out and addressed, no surprise that we get these types of displays. So we have to raise our gaze look wider This is what I'll talk about briefly next week, issues of what are called single action bias where you think that just you know take out the leader they'll take care of it do this one thing that'll take care of it now. Reality doesn't work that way. So I appreciate what you're saying completely agree with you and God tells me Oh, thank you. Great. So maybe one more and then we'll get we'll pick this up next week, I have. Next week I'll probably have much much less to say more time for this type of conversation and communication because I'm deeply appreciative of what you're offering and, and what I'm learning from you. So maybe one more for today I have a hard stop at 230 my time. All right,

Unknown Speaker

01:22:52

well bring in tassel

Unknown Speaker

01:22:58

Andy it's QSL.

Unknown Speaker

01:22:59

Sorry about

Speaker 5

01:23:00

Oh, all right. That's all right, but you might talk to me more so I just thought I'd say so hey Andrew here. I kept thinking all the while that you were talking about a couple of things. One is, I think, Katie who's actually on this call and and loves being part of this at at was at a summer program or at seminary Trungpa Rinpoche j was talking at great length about all the wonderful attainments of the Bodhisattva and caddys Rinpoche a it sounds like we have to be a bodhisattva before we can do anything. And Rinpoche I said, Oh no, if you want to be a bodhisattva nobody to ever get any help. Yeah, I just wanted to share that and the other thing has it's just it's just a topic that's floating in my mind but I was reading about the convergence on the capital of the pride boy for our boys and this boys and that that boys and this group and that group, and there were so many organized groups that came together. And we are not organized at all we all are sitting in our little boxes. Yeah, maybe there's something I mean I know from working on an underground newspaper in Mississippi. In the 60s, we were only seven people but the fact that we were seven people working together, made a difference, and as just started to think that maybe what we need to do collectively is actually something flashed on my screen as we were talking about, you know, a group of veterans who were gonna hold the one to storm the Capitol, um, you know, responsible. And I thought maybe we, we need to collectively think about how we can join with others because we're not going to do much by ourselves.

Andrew Holecek

01:25:15

Yeah, that's a that's a really great thought really really interesting insight that maybe, you know, when Margaret Mead say you know a small group of people can change the world that, that in fact interesting the proud boys and all these other whatever they are, get together and they have this kind of impact we, the idea of creating kind of pockets of political sanity, where the collective forces gather I think it's a terrific idea. So maybe we can continue to pick that out and talk to people about actual implementation strategies and that sort of thing because really, obviously that's, that's where power is created in a very healthy way and you know perhaps literal powerful change could be enacted barbells I think it's a great idea. So thank you for offering that, and everybody really apologize because I have to run. We'll pick this up next week. Again, this is an, you could say maybe the beginning, or continuation of this. Hopefully they'll come a time when the dust can settle and we can turn to some another topic, but I think that you know we, I think it seems healthy to me, somewhat disingenuous if we don't just continue to talk. Brain what's happening in the world onto our path actually included in our path. So that we can be of some benefit to ourselves and also increased benefit to the world which obviously needs it. So thank you so much for joining us. We'll pick up this thread next week, I will definitely talk less and open the floor more, because I think there's some really terrific contributions and actually some really great ideas that we can all share amongst ourselves, but between now and then. Let's pray we get through this next week. Good night. Let's see what happens. And keep our hearts and minds open practice do tonglen for others, and reconvene next next week, same time, same place and continue our little journey together so. All the best to you thanks for joining us.

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