How to Shop SLP Malpractice Insurance Without ASHA Membership

10:09PM Aug 24, 2025

Speakers:

Jeanette Benigas

Preston Lewis

Minivan Meltdown

Keywords:

Fix SLP

speech language pathology

malpractice insurance

ASHA membership

liability insurance

pro liability

Remedy EMR

new grads

Praxis scandal

group discounts

advocacy

legislation

Michigan House Committee

early access

podcast sponsor.

Welcome to the Fix SLP summer school series where we're schooling the system all summer long. If you're ready to challenge the status quo in speech language pathology, you're in the right place. Subscribe so you don't miss an episode, and if something fires you up, leave us a message on the minivan meltdown line at fixslp.com, grab your favorite summer beverage and let's get to work.

Welcome back, fellow Fixers. Preston Lewis joining you today. Dr, Jeanette Benigas is with me in conversation. Jeanette, summer school rolls on, but we are getting ever so close to a very special Fix SLP episode in the future. Yeah, I know we're looking forward to putting that together for our audience, but it's great to see you this fine Thursday morning here in August. How are you?

I'm good. I mean, I already told you this, but the Fixer are probably excited to hear you back this week. I am excited to see your face. Glad you didn't resign after a rally Fixer weekend with the ladies. You bring a good perspective to this podcast, so it's good to have your voice back.

Well, thanks. It's kind of a difficult last week, I had a was in a car accident. Nobody was injured. But, you know, I've gone 44 years on the earth, and I guess I was driving for 20 something of those and never had a fender bender until now, but I tell you that first day of school traffic, it could be intense. So fortunately, it was my daughter was not in the car, and no one was hurt. So but it kind of threw a dampener on last week the Fixer convention, if I will, was a lot of fun getting to know everybody. But, you know, it's, it's different when you finally meet with someone. And Jeanette is exactly who Jeanette is on the pod. She is a lot of energy. I don't think that the Fixer light bulb ever turns off. And somewhere a few years ago, I think I kind of learned where I keep my world separate. And some people, you know, it's not A, not an indictment on you, Jeanette, but it really courses through your veins. 24/7, and I think sometimes I was like, Jeanette, I just want to go rest. I want to play. I want to play Monopoly deal. Your like, fix! fix! fix!

You're like, girls, I'm going to the gym. Go do whatever the F you're gonna do, and leave me alone... and then we didn't see you for like, hours,

Right. You get, you get a lot of points for passion, and that's a good thing, that organizations need that kind of thing. And sometimes I think I'm the person who is looking for sabbatical. I you know, this has been a hard year for a lot of people, yeah, and you read the news, you get distressed. And I think if there weren't so many forest fires right now in Canada, I would probably be somewhere on Vancouver Island looking for a spot to camp near the beach. But right now I'll stay here because things are a little rough there, of the air quality, and I've got responsibilities here at home.

You know what though, Preston? You do. But also I think with my crazy passion, as you call it, it's a good balance. You came to this field. We've talked about it before. This is not your first career. It's not your first job. You don't define your life or your identity as a speech pathologist, I think, as a lot of people can very easily do, and I think that brings good balance. I don't think there's a thing wrong with you not loving. SLP, as much as me and I is the word that I have love. It's, do we call this love, or do we call this crazy fixation? It's something I don't know.

No, it is a it's a passion that burns within you. I think it was played out well, or at least well illustrated in the last few weeks with all of the things that new grads are going through. And it's I like it, because when I was in politics, this brief detour, people would ask me, they'd say, Well, you know what? What constituency do you represent in town? Are you for the builders? Are you for with all the public servants? And I would always say the people I represent are the people that can't vote yet. They're the young people, because it's what you leave behind. And I think that's where you come in, Jeanette, is that you are very much wanting to leave the profession in a better place and not go through what I would say is the lost last two decades of where we have seen salaries just come to, you know, flat standoff. We've seen productivity go through the roof. We've seen a national association which is just out to lunch on our dime. And you've, you've accepted that you want something. Different. You're willing to ask the tough questions, and so that's that's needed, and that passion that you bring, it churns through you, and that's great. And you're right. I This is not my first career. There are times where I think after you go through big changes in life. For me, it was probably divorce, where I learned to compartmentalize things a whole lot, and it's different experiences. And like you said, hopefully it brings a nice balance to things, because you will be fixing at two in the morning, and then sometimes I will come out of left field and send a Asha, fanboy or fangirl, an invitation to the pod, and I will get roundly ignored, but we will continue to send out those invitations.

Yeah. It's good. We have a good mix, and we're always looking this is a good place to plug this in. We're always looking to add to the team. We're not trying to be exclusive here. The way that you guys came was you were fixing independently into your own states. You kind of connected with us. We came beside you and cheered you on and helped. And then you guys. You guys just kind of stuck around. So we're looking for more people like that. You don't need us go do it. Tell us what you're doing.

Yeah, what was, what was the term I used yesterday when we were talking, I said there are a lot of rogue Fixers out there that we know have, are listening to the pod, have really subscribed to what it is we're trying to do. And sometimes they're they're like sleeper cells that are activated, and so you're out there, and that's okay. Some of you can continue to take in the content the way you are, but Jeanette is right. Sometimes just a email, call on the minivan meltdown line, anything to connect with us. We enjoy having that, and we are a strong team, because we have a lot of SLPs who are doing great things all across the country.

Yeah. Hey, before we go any further, we got something big today. We have our very first podcast sponsor, really, and we have been working so hard on this, because everybody knows we say it all the time. We're doing this for free. And even if we could get just some coffee money, that would be amazing, right? So Mikayla has been dedicated to building relationships with really cool SLP businesses out there. She's mikayla@fixslp.com it's m-i-k-a-y-l-a, and she's taken on the role of building those relationships, looking at sponsorships, looking at affiliate codes, looking at all the things. So remedy is our first company. Remedy is built by SLPs, and remedy uses AI to cut your documentation. Time down. It gives you a ton of features up front. There's no tiers, no hidden fees, just one price, really affordable because we've looked into it, and when we launch our partnership with them later this fall, we'll have way more to say, but it's an EMR, an electronical medical record that does a ton of other things. So Elizabeth has a thriving hippotherapy business. She has a farm, and we have added up everything that she pays for that's included in remedy, and it is the cost is significantly lower. So Mikayla, Elizabeth and I are going to be setting up our EMRs through remedy to try it out. But for now, right now, you can get 50% off your first two months for early access. I believe they haven't officially launched, but thanks to remedy for trusting us and starting to build this really cool relationship. All right. Preston, what do we got today?

Well, I thought we'd talk about that age old thing that comes up with, especially a lot of those SLPs that have been in the field for quite some time. And we hear it over and over again, that, well, I have to keep my CCC because it is the only way that I can get malpractice insurance. And that is another myth buster that we have talked about before, but we'll talk about it today, because we hear it from new grads, private practice owners, and then, of course, the folks that have been in the field for 20 plus years that have unfortunately drank that Kool Aid too many times, and they are scared that if they drop their C's, then I can't get liability insurance. And there are some cases where you might not, particular one case, one partner with ASHA, where that is an issue. But I am here to tell you, as someone who is out there in the free and burned their C's last year, you can get good liability malpractice insurance.

I thought it was worth us talking about this again. We owe our Fixers an update and some explanations as to where we're at in that process. If you know what we're talking about, you know we're going to give that to you. If not, we'll explain. But I just want to frame this for people who are new or new listeners, or who forget ASHA has put. Partnered with the company pro liability, formerly Marsh, and there was one other name that I'm forgetting at the moment. For years, since the 80s, they have partnered with that company as the company that offers discounted malpractice insurance to speech language pathologists. It is the only malpractice company that we have ever been exposed to because of that partnership. And I want to be clear here, Asha does not pay them. Recently, one of our Fixers sent us a letter, and I was looking for it. At you guys, I get so many emails I can't find it, but if I can find it, maybe we'll put it in the content this week, they presented it as like Asha is supporting them, but we have talked to several other malpractice insurance companies, and what we know is that these contracts are for a number of years, and then they put the contracts out for new business. So when pro liabilities contract, current contract is up, they will put out a call for bids to see who wants to take that contract. Now, pro liability outpaces the competitors every year, probably because of the millions that they've made off of SLPs. So every year pro liability, or every contract cycle. Pro liability is the one that Asha chooses to go into business with, and then, because we are a membership association, pro liability offers discounted rates. That is a benefit of membership, so you do not have to have the CCC to take advantage of the pro liability rates, you do have to have Asha membership, but if you've followed along for any length of time, you know that as a practicing SLP, you can't just have Asha membership. You also have to have the CCC to buy the membership. Those are tied together, so if you're letting your C's go, or if you're dropping membership, you can no longer purchase the pro liability insurance using the ASHA discount. Now this is a business decision from Pro liability we have no idea why they do this, but they will not sell malpractice insurance to non ASHA members. Really stupid business decision. They could sell it at a regular rate or at a different rate, but they won't sell it at all. We've been led to believe that they're the only ones out there, simply because they're the only ones we've been exposed to. So Preston and I are here to talk about that today. Bring some light to what's going on here. Give you some ideas on what you can do if you've dropped your CS or you're not going to be renewing this cycle. So that's what we want to frame up. This is summer school. We won't be here for 45 minutes today, but we thought it was worth talking about.

So one of the things that always just can make me really get my dander up. You know, as you say, what is it? Hackles you've got to sing, yeah. Is Jeanette last year, went on a deep dive into liability insurance companies and being the person who likes to, you know, coupon shop at Kroger and be very mindful. Minnie mickels makes a muckle. Last year, I had some liability insurance through a company, and Jeanette had called them and talked to them, and she said, Well, I got news for you. Next year, it's going up, big boy. And wow, were you right. The quote that I got went up like 133% and so I went back out this year and shopped around and found really a good rate. I paying around $130 now I don't have any additional add ons, writers and things of that nature. It's just liability insurance. What you're pointing your finger at me? Why?

I want you to remind the people, okay, you are not ACC holder and you are not an ASHA member. So you have, you had to shop around.

I did. And well, now first thing I did do, though, was I did call pro liability because I wanted them to get one of those phone calls from someone who said, Hey, I don't have a CCC, I'm not an ASHA member. Can I be insured? And they, you know, push back. Said, Oh, no, no, no, we can't do that. You know, this is preposterous. And I said, Really, you better change that. And of course, I was nice. I didn't tell them to smell my napkin, but I thought it was good to give them that phone call. And I encourage all of our Fixer SLPs that have dropped their C's or membership and they want to give that call and make that point to them, because I think that will send a clear message. They are a corporate sponsor of Asha as well, pro liability. Isn't that correct?

Yeah, yeah, the money insane. The money is insane. So they Oh, it's Amba. Amba is the other. Name, and that's a little sneaky. So they have this partnership with ASHA, and then they also are a corporate sponsor, but they use the Amba name. So if you go to the website, their website, it's pro liability. If you look at ashes page and you scroll to the bottom, you're going to see Amba down at the bottom. And that package, folks starts at $50,000 minimum. It goes up from there, depending on what kind of access they want to us and what kind of advertising options they want. But yeah. Mmm-hmm.

And it is one of those we talk about monopolistic practices, where you kind of spread that out there, and you you know, give the sense to people, well, you know, you really all the doors are going to close unless you, you know, get our stamp, and, you know, you may not be able to get liability practice insurance, and that, that just permeates throughout the field. But it is not true, because I did go shop it and it's, it's available, it's out there. You may get asked on a website that and I found five or six companies that will provide SLP, liability insurance. You may get asked, Are you, you know, do you have a certification? But no, not, none, none of the above. Am I licensed? Yes. Have I done my CEUs, yes. Have I done ethical? CEUs, yes, I can go down those roads. Have I been practicing for three or more years? Yes. Have I ever been sanctioned? No. And so those are just standard questions that you would ask or be asked by any insurance company, including pro liability, and it spits out a price to you because, and I think this is the thing that a lot of people forget. It's not like there's just a pool of SLPs out there, because, let's face it, we really I it's probably safe to say, in a single year, there may be years where there isn't a single claim from SLPs.

I was shopping around pretty heavily, and the company that we had to deal with, they backed out the day it was the deal was supposed to start. They told me they could see back five years, and they didn't have a single claim for SLPs, which is number one, why our insurance is so cheap. And number two, why companies like pro liability want to continue this relationship, because this is almost like passive income for them, all they have to do is send an email that says, hey guys, you're you're about to expire. Click here to renew. That's it, and they get hundreds of dollars. I think about all the years I've paid for malpractice insurance, and you know, it's once that relationship starts. SLPs are unlikely to sever that relationship unless, one, they decide they don't want insurance anymore, or two, they find a cheaper rate. And how many of us actively shop around for malpractice insurance? I'm willing to bet no one right. This is just like ongoing income. They just get our money and doesn't cost them a dime.

Right, I think your average SLP probably doesn't pay it much mind. You get one. You renew it every year as it comes in, unless there's a big increase, which there may be, insurance companies across the board in our nation are going up for different reasons, a lot of them property and casualty are going up because of I've added claims with climate change being a factor. But back to our profession, it's clear that, and for the sake of not giving free advertising, I'll call my insurance company Acme. It's safe to say that Acme may only be underwriting a couple 100 SLPs across the country. I'll just take a guess. Throw a number out there. Those 200 are not sharing the entire risk pool together because our premiums alone would not cover it. So it is often linked in with other allied health professions. So that could be physical therapists, occupational acupuncturists, some psychologists. You know, the list goes on and on. So that's ostensibly what it is. It's not like it's some impossible thing to find folks. It's out there. It's a couple of Google searches you might have to go down a few. Is pro liability going to come up first, perhaps because of the SEO and the way they structure? Yeah, sure. But you have other options, and they're not hard to obtain. Often, you can get them the same day, and I just hope that people continue to put that fear aside, because it's all about the fear in our profession. And you have choices. You have options, and some of them are actually quite affordable and need to be attenuated to what your practice is. For a lot of folks that are working on contracts and maybe only punching in 2025 billable hours a week, you could get added discounts in there because you don't have as much exposure.

And we're all over the board on our team. So I can say we all have a different company. We've talked about it since we've taken this journey. Over the last year, we've we've all done our own research, and we've all went. Different companies. We're all paying different rates, and we all have different needs. So you know, Elizabeth, she's, she's got kids on horses at her farm, right? There's, there's animals there. She's got pretty heavy insurance needs. So, you know she's, she's got a bunch of stuff on her insurance. I'm putting cameras in people's noses, and I have my own practice, as does Michaela. I personally also have a huge continuing education catalog, so there is some risk there by teaching things and potentially someone causing harm to a patient and saying, Well, I learned this from Jeanette. So I have a couple extra things on mine. So when you're looking at your insurance, if you're just a practitioner, it's always wise to have your own even if you're not a 1099, I have a course with med bridge that talks about diet waivers, and we start that course with an interview with a malpractice and neglect attorney out of Ohio, and he actually recommended you always carry it, because if something happens, the lawyer that is hired, basically to represent you slash your company, their vested interest is going to be in the company, not in You. So you need to have your own in place, and malpractice insurance is what helps pay for that. And I'm not so sure it goes retro. So if something happens at work, I don't think you can then go get malpractice insurance. You have to be covered at the time of the event. So it's very cheap, and it's wise, even if you're on a w2 full time employee at a hospital or a school or whatever, it's wise to just have so you're just looking at basic malpractice. Then you know, Michaela and I both have general liability. I'm sure Elizabeth probably has that. That's kind of like the slip and trip kind of thing. As a business owner, you always want to have general liability. And then there's some things like errors and omissions, things like that, that I also carry, just by the nature of my work. So there's many products that range from just malpractice, which is, if you're a treating clinician and that's all you do, all the way up to like five different things like I have, and it gets a little more expensive that way.

Yeah, the insurance I have with Acme, they have $35,000, is the amount that they will pay if there is a dispute on a license. So for legal coverage, that's actually an option within the policy, you can up that, I think, to $65,000 in legal fee coverage. I can't imagine that complicated of a case before the Arkansas speech language pathology hearing board, but it's there. And so those, those issues within the policy are there. And then, of course, the, you know, general liability coverage, if I should, you know, God forbid, maliciously choose an incorrect diet and commit malpractice, and someone was to be harmed by that. That's not going to happen, because some of us are very responsible and diligent clinicians. We know to document. We know how to treat our patients accordingly. But it's there. It's peace of mind. You know, people make mistakes or litigious type situations come along, so it's great to have it, and you do have those choices, and it's good to know your policy, and I think it's good to shop it around. We get really linked down into our jobs or into our certifications or professions, because we think that insurance is this life raft that only floats one way, and in fact, it can be custom tailored, even in the event of liability, toward the clinician what their needs are, even when I was with pro liability. One other thing I can remember, there was a disclosure box that I checked, which was a bit unusual. It added maybe 20, $30 a year. I can't remember if I've worked in a correctional institution, and at the time, I did for a short amount of time, and I think they had to call and do like, a second interview on that to say, Well, are there cameras there? And, you know, do you have guards? And of course, that's part of the conversation, but you do need to tailor that insurance, because if you also don't pay attention to some of those issues, and you do have something that comes up, your coverage could be in question.

So let me give where Fix SLP is in this process. It was discovered last fall when people were dropping their membership that they were no longer able to qualify for the pro liability insurance. That's when we took action, and I started very, very, very heavily vetting malpractice insurance for both advertising and or group discount rates. Some companies were not interested. One was super interested. They were rebuilding their company, and it wasn't a good time, but I found one that was pretty promising. And my mistake was, listen, I say this all the time, we don't know what we're doing. We're learning as we go. My mistake at that point was I stopped talking to all the other companies, so lessons learned. We don't do that anymore, but I went through the whole process with them. I worked with them. They were pleasant. They were easy to talk to, easy to get a hold of. I really liked this company. I ended up talking to the CEO, and it seemed like it was going to be a good relationship. Other business lessons were learned, and they backed out the day I was supposed to start launching this partnership with them. I think they had some fear. They were unsure if people would actually switch to their company. We know our Fixers, right? You guys, when you go hard, you go hard. I think there are enough people who have dropped their C's or their membership, that people are looking for these options. I know this because I get emails every week or DMS every week asking who we're recommending, because I did say in content previously that we would have a recommendation for you. And so people can't find that content because we haven't put it out, so I do respond with the explanation, so we know that you guys are looking for this. So we gave it some time, especially because we had other fish to fry. More things have been going on, but we gave it some time. We're starting advertising with this episode, so we're going to have a track record to show what's been going on with our platform, because that's the other thing people are afraid to advertise when you don't have advertisers right? So now we're putting some things in place that we can talk to some of those pain points that this company had. We're hoping to circle back with them here soon, this fall, and maybe they'll be willing to revisit. So at this time, we don't have a recommendation for you. We have four or five really good recommendations because we've all found something affordable. But I told Preston, it's like the old saying, Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free. If we start giving you guys a recommendation for Preston's Acme. You guys are all going to go buy Acme. Why do they need to give us a discounted rate? Why do they need to advertise? Why do they need to partner with us when we're just sending them to you? So I think all of you can understand that we are working hard to get the systems in place to have a better presentation for these companies when we circle back to them. So that's what we're doing right now. We haven't let this go. We are going to continue to try to find a group rate for all of us, because it impacts us too. It impacts us. Preston doesn't have his membership. Preston doesn't have a C's. People are dropping membership on our team. You know, we're all in different points. We're very open about who has their C's, who has their membership, who doesn't. You can check out our website for that information and why, but we're all in the same place you are. We have the same kind of employment barriers, we have the same kind of state barriers. We have all the barriers that you do, but we would happily walk away and we have so it benefits us if we if we get a discounted rate as well. So that's where we're at in the meantime. Preston, how did you walk people step by step. They want to walk away from their CS. They want to walk away from membership this year or their policy is coming up expired. What did you do?

Well, I grabbed my Android Motorola smartphone and opened my favorite browser, which is Firefox, and searched for SLP, liability insurance. Some cases I might even added allied health profession for therapy. You will find a number of companies. The prices will fluctuate some. There are some where it's like, wow. They really want $323 a year. Maybe they do. But there are those that are out there that you can find that are going to be in the one hundreds range and go down that search list. Don't be afraid to go to page two if you have to. And you will get in there and find that often they are associated with some big insurance group out there because they're coordinating with a lot of Allied Health Professions. This may sound all like, wow, I don't know. I could get lost in the jungle. If you are determined, and you are very comfortable with your smartphone, which I think most people are probably more comfortable with theirs than I am with mine, you can have insurance in place at a decent value with really about 30 minutes of work. It's like anything in life you can you. Can find it on the World Wide Web if you just put your mind to it.

Yep, that's it, guys. And we're not letting this go. We're going to continue to pursue it. And you better believe I'm not going to say, if I'm going to say when, when we land a discounted rate for our Fearless Fixers, we will splash it on the internet. You will see it in our content. You will see it in our promo codes pinned to the top of our page. You'll see it we'll make a big deal out of it, because it will be a big deal, but we just need a little more time with that. So that's where we're at. Thanks for being patient.

Jeanette. Listen. Do you hear it? The tires? It's coming. The minivan meltdown. We have one.

What do we got today?

We had someone that called in on recent topic about our new grads who were taking the Praxis and got roped in with the scandal, if you want to call it with ETS and some of the disciplinary action that was laid out there, but one of the questions that you and I have posed is why, and that's what this fixer in particular called in it was very thoughtful, and wanted to get down to the why, and let's get some data.

I just finished listening to the podcast about the whole Google document Praxis testing, and all I could think was, we need to get someone that is great at research, so maybe I don't know someone from Asha or not, to do a really good qualitative study and interview all of the people that got caught up in this and find out why. Because we're all assuming that it's fear, and I do agree with that. But if we actually had the study and the evidence that was showing some of the things that are really wrong with our graduate programs and our pre SLP training, I think that'd be really healthy, not that I think it's going to happen, but it's an idea keep fixing it.

I really like this, because if you take the pointy headed, academic, elitist side from it, you think, well, we have to get all three, whether 180 what is the number of Jeanette? 180 we have to get all 180 people in this room, and we have to ask them questions all day long over coffee, and then I'll post for selfies if you want to do it. Ashes style, no, no, no. I think you take a sampling of a dozen, maybe 20 of these individuals. And I'm talking largely. I mean, you could talk to some of the ones that were further disciplined for the what is it two years? Jeanette, yeah, you could talk to some of them if you wanted. Maybe there's something to be had there. But I, I really would like to talk to those people that are part of that three month moratorium on testing, and not right now, things are a little bit sensitive and raw. These people need to be preparing for the test again and trying to get into the system. But it's worthy of a look back in six months to say, what were your reasons? Let's, let's do a survey on this. What did we find was the common theme here? Because I think you're serving our graduates that are out there to find out, what are the gaps? Why was there a fear here, and how can it be addressed? It's a good point. I think it could be done beyond Asha having to do it as well, because we certainly have contact with quite a few of these folks, and so maybe that's something that Fix SLP takes up.

I mean, I've certainly harvested a lot of data from them. And I say harvested because that's the term, yeah, ETS was

That's the dirty, dirty word, your harvester!

You know, I asked them a bunch of questions. Turns out, I'm a researcher. I've got some publications under my belt. So I did ask quite a few things, but more for the purpose of trying to get organized, to find patterns, not so much to publish a study. And I'd say these are the conclusions that I've drawn. Yes, there's fear. They're they're afraid they're not going to pass the Praxis. But what I took away from this, like overall, was the this. This is a cohort of young people who are used to using the internet for everything. They are not of the time that you and I are from Preston, where we went through undergrad without Facebook, right? Like you started undergrad. I don't even think MySpace was around yet, or it was just starting to kick right. So this, this is a group of students who go to the internet for everything, and so having a shared document like this, even though ETS defines it as cheating, in their minds, it's not cheating. It would be like you and I back in the day, sitting. Around after class, talking about our experience having taken the Praxis. The problem with the internet is it just reaches a wider variety of people. There were eight people by the time I was graduating undergrad, there were eight people in my cohort. So eight people are not going to get called out by ETS for cheating. If we're all sitting around talking about the Praxis in today's world, when you're doing that on a Google doc in writing, and it reaches hundreds of people, and ETs is actively scraping the web for these things online, now you're found out. And so the other thing is, I don't think people take time. I know I didn't to read the policies of ETs. You're not even supposed to be talking about the Praxis. It's like, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, like that's part of their policy is you're not even allowed to talk about it after you take it. And so even what you and I would have done back in the early aughts, sitting around talking about it wasn't even allowed. And so I think that is the root of the problem I've had so many people say I didn't even realize this would have been considered cheating, at least early on. And to be clear, no one, I don't believe was copying and pasting actual test questions. They were sharing questions that they were getting from practice tests. So, you know, there was no, like, major data breach or anything like that, but we've talked about it, right? So I think we're beating a dead horse at this point, but that's what was going on. And I think we could say, how could they be so stupid? How could they not know but this is a different time with a different group of people.

Well, how can they be better prepared? How can they be better prepared to know the boundaries? And, yeah, that's I do. Put some of this at the door of our grad programs. There. We're supposed to educate people about what the expectations are, not just in preparation for the content of the test, but the ethical boundaries and those, those boundaries look different, as you said, than they did circa 2010 because of technology, because of AI, because of shared instant documents that are networked with one another. So it's good to have that conversation. It's good to talk to these people as a learning experience and not just to ostracize the heck out of them. So we appreciate the minivan meltdown contribution. We had a couple in the line. We chose that one, but they're all valued. And it's as we say before, this is a good chance on the pod to sometimes add something in there. It can be a rant. It could be something about a current issue. It can be a funny, clinical story. It could be you calling pro liability and telling them to smell your napkin, whatever the case is. We enjoy hearing from you, and it's on the website. You can click. Think it's near the top of the page, is it? Yeah? So, yep, yes. Give us a call. We'd love to hear from you.

Please, yeah! All right...

Real quick. I'd like to add in, before we sign off, that we did hear today that we have a date for a committee hearing vote, August the 27th the house health policy committee will convene and vote on HB, 4484 in the state of Michigan. So that'll be a chance to get out of the House Committee and then on to the entire Michigan State House of Representatives. So I am excited for that we'll be watching that is, this is legislation from Fix SLP that is coming together. So exciting news that hit our inbox this morning.

We'll have news. We'll at least be able to watch it live. So we'll, maybe we'll do a little bonus episode Preston after we hear. All right, before we sign off, go check out Remedy. It's Remedy, r-e-m-e-d-y-s-l-p.com, you can grab early access for the EMR, 50% off your first two months. Thank you so much to them for being our first sponsors. It means a lot that you've trusted us to do this with you. All right, guys, thanks for fixing it. We'll see you next week!

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