For Thought In-conversation: Sir David Lidington and Dr Alina Nychyk
12:46PM Nov 29, 2022
Speakers:
Sir David Lidington
Dr Alina Nychyk
Keywords:
ukraine
ukrainian
ukrainians
russian
russia
work
scientists
collaboration
science
universities
scholars
opportunities
war
phd
important
alina
eu
cooperate
countries
west
Well, Alina, we're sorry that you're not able to be with us in London today, but delighted that we've been able to have this interview as a substitute. And I'm very interested to hear your particular perspective on this, this theme that we have for the day on 'collaboration in an uncertain and changing turbulent world'. And what does, what does that theme mean for you and your work?
And thank you very much, I'm very happy for your invitation. So my name is Dr. Alina Nychyk. And first of all, I'm a global citizen. I support international cooperation, I lived in nine countries and visited more than 30. I'm a political scientist, and a social activist. And through my work, I always cooperate with different countries, for instance, I'm often a guest at different international conferences and trainings. And in my opinion, we can change the world for better, we are sharing our needs and ideas with each other and searching for mutually beneficial solutions. So I'm always rational, cooperation is different.
Tell us just a little bit about the work that you're doing at the moment, what's the subject of your own research?
So my PhD was about the EU-Ukraine-Russia relations during the first year of the war. And currently I'm writing a book, currently my PhD and a book, and I'm also conducting this research about the first year of the war about the start of the war to current Russian invasion, since I found there are a lot of similarities, but also differences between the start of war and current Russian invasion.
Now, we always think about scientific research as an area of human activity that routinely transcends national borders. That you have scientists at the sharp end of research, and people working on the implementation of new science, working collaboratively across national borders, universities in one part of the world in contact with universities in other parts of the world, friendships and professional relationships amongst scientists in completely different countries, sometimes very different systems of government.
Now, I imagine that the war in Ukraine, the aggression launched by Putin earlier this year, will have had quite a big impact upon that tradition and practice of collaborative work. And I was wondering, perhaps describe for us what you have seen of this in your own work, but also in the work and the lives of those people, you know, your fellow researchers?
Thank you very much. It's very interesting question and I actually deal with it on a daily basis. And I would say is that this war creates both challenges and opportunities for global cooperation in science and innovation.
On the one hand, in Ukraine, many research institutes and universities are destroyed, and many scientists are killed by Russia. But on the other hand, there are plenty of opportunities for Ukrainians, for Ukrainian scholars in other countries. And, you know, I would like to share a bit of my personal experience. For many years I have been struggling for my dreams. And my biggest obstacle was always my Ukrainian citizenship, and I was looking for a PhD in different EU countries, and for job interest in Brussels. I was always told on thing: find a EU husband, to get citizenship and all opportunities will be opened for me.
And since I didn't want to get a husband, my role was very long. And I got my PhD scholarship at University of Manchester only after four years of publications for looking for doctoral study. And now due to this misfortune of Russian invasion of Ukraine, Ukrainian students and scholars have much more opportunities than me. And for example, I was helping such new projects as Science for Ukraine, Ukraine global universities, and I see there are plenty of scholarships, fellowships, other scientific exchanges, which are created especially for Ukrainians. And this makes me very happy. It makes me very happy that Ukrainians will have this chance without the need to get a EU husband.
But at the same time, you know, probably that Ukrainian man or not allowed to leave the country, and so neither male students, so children aged 18 or 19 years old, or established scholars, they cannot go for study or collaboration roles, and this breaks my heart. This is horrible. And this is again against our liberal values of freedom.
There are, of course, online opportunities. And I'm happy that foreign universities create this online opportunities of fellowships for scholars who are not able to leave Ukraine. But in any case, it's not the same. And I would be very happy if Ukrainian men have equal access to education science now, because it's very important.
And if I might mention also collaboration with Russia, because many, many people ask about it. So, most Western countries stop collaboration with Russia and Russian institutions, with Russian state scientific institutions, which in my opinion, is a good decision.
However, Russian scholars and students can still come to the West, and some have programmes for example, Scientists At Risk they include Russia, the Belarussians and Ukrainians all together. And I would like to mention that this is offensive for Ukrainians and Ukrainian state has been protesting against this inclusion of all three nationalities together, because obviously Russian and Belarusian are attacking Ukraine. And that's just not ethical.
But in any case, Russian and the Belarussian scholars who don't support that government, they have this opportunities and they can they can come to the west and continue their study, continuous collaboration is against what is going on in their countries.
Thank you. Can I just probe a bit further on what you said about the links with Russia and Belarus? I mean, I said, I'm very interested to know, until February this year, was there a lot of collaboration going on between scientists and other researchers in Ukraine and their counterparts in Russia and Belarus, or did that all come to an end in 2014? With the attack on Crimea and the Donbass?
Yeah, a lot of collaboration already stopped in 2014. And often it stopped the from Russian side. For example, my father is a scientist in veterinary science and the institutes could still have cooperation with their colleagues in Belarus, in cooperation Ukraine-Belarus was still going on, but Russian colleagues just refuse to cooperate with Ukrainians. But still was not totally destroyed as after this current invasion.
I just wondered if whether there was any, any chance that some perhaps Ukrainian researchers who had been working with Russian academics in the past might actually have a channel there where they try and tell their counterparts in Russia what was really going on and to persuade them not to be taken taken in by the propaganda channels from the Kremlin? But from what you say it sounds as if the there's very little communication of that kind that is able to take place now.
This propaganda in Russians is hate towards Ukrainian that was been developing for years.
Yeah. Yes. And do you think looking forward, you know, we all hope that the war will end as soon as possible and with the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine fully restored. Let's hope that day comes through. But if when it does come, I mean how easy is it going to be to rebuild some of these historic contacts with Russian scientists and universities? Or do you think, to be honest, that that's something that is just off what has now happened? That's something that it's not realistic to think about for very many years into the future.
Do you mean between Ukraine and Russia?
Between Ukraine and Russia, yes.
That would be very hard. It would be very hard, even some Russians who are pro Ukrainian and against Putin, they're not welcomed in Ukraine now. It's very hard, after all of our atrocities and rapes and killing of civilians, it's very hard to, for Ukrainians to to have any communication with Russians. It will take decades for sure.
No, I see that. If we look forward to thinking about the themes of today's conference more generally, are there perhaps one or two particular priorities that you would want to highlight as areas where it's particularly important that scientists and policy makers and business really work collaboratively closely together?
Yes, I think that it's important that science, business and policy should work together in combination of any aggression, human rights violations as well. And I think that policy should enforce business and science not to support, not to cooperate with anti human regimes and politicians.
And so I'm talking about Russia, for example, of China. And speaking about United Kingdom, for example, you know, that London has been a haven for Russian but also Ukrainian oligarchs, because they were able to hide there illegally, earned money. And in my opinion, United Kingdom has this chance now, to check the origins of this money better. And the assets of Russian oligarchs who are under sanctions could be confiscated, for example. And also the West establish which countries hold the Russian Central Bank reserves and this $300 billion be also confiscated as aid to Ukraine as for reparations.
And, yeah, important for Russian gas and oil to be stopped. And this is also a chance for development of new solutions for green energy. So as I say, it's always challenge and opportunity. And the last thing I think that business and science, what business and science should do, is jointly aim at building this whole sustainable, prosperous life. And not only in the West. But for every human being in all parts of the world. I think that's the most important.
Alina, great to talk to you. Best of luck with your your work and best of luck to you and your colleagues who are in back in Ukraine who are having to work under such difficult and frankly, terrifying circumstances, we send our very best wishes to them. Thank you for sparing time to record this conversation.
