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Hi, my name is George Abraham and welcome to this edition of Eyeway Conversations. My guest today is Nagraj More, Chief Manager, Training and Development, Bharat Petroleum Corporation Limited. Welcome Nagraj.
Thank you, George.
So Nagraj, you are Chief Manager, Training and Development at BPCL.
Yes.
So what exactly is your job role?
Presently, I'm posted as Chief Manager, Training and Development in Mumbai refinery. So, my job role is like identifying training programs, checking the benefits and the value additions for the refinery as such. The job role here becomes much more challenging because when I was in corporate L&D, there we focused more on the behavioral leadership and such programs. Whereas, in refineries, you need to also you know, handle a lot of functional training programs. My job role also involves designing training programs related to the various functions, certain behavioral aspects, interacting with the trainers or the facilitators to check the content validity. And then it also involves a lot of administrative aspects such as you know, receiving the nominations, forwarding those nominations, ensuring people join the programs. And then last but not the least, another thing is meeting the business targets, this year our business targets was x and you know, we have exceeded the target in comparison to the other refineries in BPCL.
Nagraj, I also believe you are a qualified coach, I've often wondered what a coach does?
The coach actually enables an individual or a group of people to explore their potential, to discover their potential. In the decade of 50s, 60s and 70s, it was more like you know, mentors where mentor used to say like, "look, this is what I have done" where they used to directly share their experiences with the subordinates or with their buddies, whereas here, we are not prescriptive, we don't say you have to do this, you have to do that. We ask certain leading questions where the group of people or an individual tries to explore as to what he or she needs to do, or resolve an issue. This is what the coach does, the coach doesn't give answers, the coach helps individuals to discover their own answers through probing questions.
How did you qualify as a coach because I don't think people are born as coaches.
So, they did ask me, "how are you gonna manage, look we do draw things on the whiteboard, how are you gonna manage that, somebody needs to write for you on the whiteboard". But yes, as I said, you need to work around the challenges you know, we cannot sit and say, I need this I need that. The first thing which any individual should stop is demanding you know. Do not demand, create your own devices, your own techniques to work around the challenges. You know, as General MacArthur said, "in life there is no security, in life there are only opportunities".
Wonderful, wonderful.
So, I started keeping my OHPs in order, like if I have to take five sessions, I used to ensure that the OHPs are in order then I used to take somebody's help or the other. And at that time, what I did was like, I used to read the slides bullet by bullet with the help of JAWS, then record it in braille. But one incident came where a Monday I had to do a session and I didn't have the slides at all and it was Friday afternoon when I was told. So then my wife Vishakha she sat at home, recorded all the slides then we had a small dictaphone.
Yes.
Then I came back home, I was listening to each and every bullet points on the dictaphone. Then I made notes in braille and I delivered the sessions wonderfully fine because you need to slog it up. This is a message for a lot of youngsters today. They are fortunate enough, George, you and I didn't have the technology what they have today.
Yes.
At that time, we had to literally depend on people to read things. And today, you need not have an expensive software like JAWS or Window Eyes to read things, you can just have free NVDA software. The one important aspect, a vital thing a coach must acquire is George, read read read.
You need to have the knowledge.
You need to have the knowledge, you need to have a global knowledge. And another technique I devised was you know, I had a lot of fellow coaches so I used to meet them once a while and they used to read a book, they used to summarize and tell me. There are few books which are about 1000 pages or 2000 pages. Many of my fellow coach colleagues you know, they used to make notes, type out those summary of each chapter, not more than a page and they used to send it to me. So there was not need of me reading the whole book, reading the summary itself was enough. And another important aspect for a coach is I don't know how many people would appreciate this but knowing braille is to an extent. It'll be a great gift because you're sitting at the back of the table, you can make quick notes and then it'll help you. It'll help you to deliver your sessions much better.
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Are their bodies that actually formally certify you and what is the process you go through for the certification?
The process is they will see as a life coach and then you need to send them recordings. You also have online oral sessions where they you know, ask you several questions. And it's not that you know, they call you and (my nickname among my friends and among my coaches is Nagi), they don't tell me like Nagi, these are the questions we want to ask so you better prep up. It's not that, it's all spontaneous, instantaneous and what they assess is what are your basic instincts as a coach. Are you able to handle the spontaneity because when you go to handle a group you know, when you're taking session for good 30-40 people. You don't know what questions they're going to come out with. You want to ask me for the body you know, there's one body called International Association of Coaches. Mr. Krishna Kumar was the President of International Association of Coaches. It's based in the US. But he was the first person who took an initiative, who took the lead to certify 20 visually challenged guys as a coach in Hong Kong.
How many Indians here?
Indians, I don't know. I don't think there are any known persons as a coach other than me, I have my doubts because as I told you, George, coaching is something where it's rigorous. Their sessions are for minimum 18 months.
You've been working with BPCL for several years now and we all grew up at a time when you know, corporate or public sector employment was not very common when it came to people with disabilities. Tell me a little bit about how did you decide to get into what you are doing now and what was the journey that took you to BPCL and the employment?
I had done my summer internship with BPCL and then the management had seen my mobility, my independence and other things actually. When I completed my internship, there are few rare students from this who also get the verbal offer in the third semester itself.
Right.
I was one among those lucky guys who was made a verbal offer in the third semester. "Would you like to join us if we offer a job to you?", so I told them I'm happy but let me think about it. Our recruitment normally happens in the fourth semester during the month of January and that's the time when Cadbury had come to our campus. And I remember my interview with the Cadbury's men went for 1 hour 10 minutes. So I still remember Mr. Arun Joshi was the Director of Cadbury at the time.
Right.
And he looked at the kind of internship project report I had done in BPCL.
Right,
And it was 22nd to 23rd February 1992, where BPCL also invited me for the interview. I said, "let me go and take a chance there also".
Sure.
And then when they came back in the evening, I got a call from Cadbury saying that through our you know, one of the professors saying that I think even Cadbury would like to offer you the job
Right.
Then in the end, I took a call to join BPCL. George, I'll tell you, you know Harvard Business School had come out with an article in 2014. Many of us do play a lot of games when we are kids, right? Like a police or like a teacher, like a leader or whatever whatever.
Right.
So some of these games actually helps enable an individual to identify the purpose in life. All of us were born ordinary, be it Mahatma Gandhi, be it Mother Teresa, be it anybody, be it Nelson Mandela. They were all born ordinary. What made them extraordinary is, George, they all discovered their purpose when they were kids. So you know, a lot of these elders do ask you know, like what is that you would like to do? What is that you would like to become when you grow up?
Yeah.
So always I used to tell them, I would like to get into the army. I still remember my grandma, my dad, my mom, they used to be slightly tilted towards spirituality so this did take me to a lot of these stages. So once he asked me, what is that you would like to do son, when you grow? I said I want to get into the army. He said, "don't take it otherwise, you're totally blind, so how will you get into the army? You can't". But then I said, give me a blessing that I need to serve this nation in some form or the other.
Right.
So that's the time I decided, look I can't get into the army but can serve this nation by joining at least a public sector. And the way I decided was, when I was in school, we used to be introduced to a lot of people- lawyers, lecturers, the best music guys, the best this, the best that, that's the time I thought you know, nobody is in the management, why not to do something getting into the management to do it. And my school was run by the Germans and the Americans. It was known as the Christopher Blinden Mission. Their school was given by its school for the blind in Bangalore.
Yeah.
They had one good thing, George. The moment we reach fourth grade, they used to help us to discover our dreams and help us to visualize and then making this you know, enabling us to making those dreams into reality. And somebody asked me why management, why not you know, it's easy to become a lawyer or a lecturer because many visually challenged guys have excelled in this field. So it'll be easy for you to make a dent. Then I told other friends of mine, look I like to open the new door of opportunities, how many blind lawyers, how many blind lecturers you're going to have?
Yeah.
And that's the time I decided, look HR is one thing where I can make a dent. And I joined the TISS, like I cannot take names here. There are a few of my friends, classmates batchmates, wherever it was possible, they've actually recruited some visually challenged guys in their respective organizations. So my purpose was to create a new opportunity, to open doors where we need not only be musicians, lawyers or lecturers. We can also be effective managers, we can also be effective coaches. We can do whatever we want, provided we have a clear purpose in life.
Excellent excellent. So you know, it's one thing to get a job. Now you know, we always when people get into a job, another thing that challenges a blind professional is the ecosystem. How did BPCL kind of ensure that you had the ecosystem for you to perform to your potential and make a contribution to the company?
They were very nice. I'll tell you why. The moment I joined, when I was going to any location for training, they used to call up and say, look we are sending you so and so was totally blind but he's excellent in other activities, in other areas of life.
Right.
So they used to be very well taught. I'll give you a simple latest example. Do I have the permission to take names here, George? Some important names.
Yeah, sure sure.
We have a GM HR in-charge of Mumbai refinery. Now, he got to know, both of us are coaches of course but he got to know that I will be reporting to Mumbai refinery as Chief Manager Training. Now, you know what he did? He went to the Learning Center, check the cabin which was allotted to me.
Yeah.
And you know, he blindfolded himself and he said, "aisa mat rakho isko, ye table ko iss location me rakho, iss direction me rakho" so that it's easy for him to enter the cabinet mode of the cadet.
Yeah. So he kind of went to the detail of even pIanning of your positioning at your table and chair
Absolutely absolutely. There are again you know, there are challenges but there are people also who do things to make you comfortable out of the way, they go out of the way. This was not required for him to do at all but he did it. So people are there to give us opportunities and we need to make use of the opportunities with a lot of responsibility and fulfill all those obligations which the organizations do demand from us.
Yeah, I guess what are the biggest barriers that people with disability face in an employment situation is the attitude of people around and I think you've been lucky or you've been blessed that people around you have had a kind of decent attitude?
Yes, definitely. I do agree. That way, yes, I'm blessed to have wonderful friends since my childhood. And again you know, George, we are blessed, of course but even these blessings do come with our own actions.
Right.
I would like to give this message to a lot of teenagers you know, when I was in the school, I used to tell my friends like, when I was in third or fourth grade if I remember, our school was close to this HAL airport at that time. There was one airport in Bangalore that was Hindustan Aeronautics Limited.
At Domlur.
At Domlur, right. So a lot of these aircrafts used to fly from above our school.
Yeah.
So one night I think some of these international flights or late night flights were flying. So I told one of my friends in Kannada, "look ya, I would like to grow so big where I wish to have breakfast in one city, lunch in another city". So he said don't take it otherwise man, all of us are totally blind, what you guys want to do, maximum will be lecturers or lawyers, where will these things happen?
Yeah.
So you know, then gradually, I started interacting only with such people where one is they have some vision, some purpose in life and always our debates used to be around general knowledge, around various articles. And my friends you know, I think after 8th standards in Divine Light school, 9th and 10th I completed through integrated education through Stracey Memorial High School. So I had a lot of my friends who used to walk down with me towards the school you know, from Shivajinagar bus stand till the school which was in MG road. So me and my friends used to walk down, I had some of my friends, my neighbors were basically in St. Joseph school. So when they used to walk down every day, they themselves volunteered, they said, look Nagi, we will do one thing, every evening we will read some Reader's Digest article, some Business World, India Today, as we are walking, we will discuss and we will debate around the articles. Wonderful thought, no?
Indeed indeed.
And we need to see what we create our lives to be, it depends upon the kind of friends circles we create around us.
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Your wife comes from the north of India while you come from Karnataka. How did you guys meet, how did it happen?
If I recollect judge, you had also come for that DPI Conference in 1997, Disabled People's International conference which had happened in Delhi.
Yes, I was there.
That was our first meeting if we recollect, my first meeting with you. Then somebody told my wife now, Vishakha that look these guy is in HR in BPCL and then she had also completed her post graduate diploma from school and it was becoming difficult for her to get a job and she had done her MBA in finance. So then somebody told her to meet me, so that you know, you will be able to get some tips from him.
Yeah.
And then she had come with her mother afterwards, it was more like a formal discussion. Neither, at least both of us never even had imagined that we would end up in being life partners. And then we also went to a mountaineering expedition in the 1998. There also we were very formal, I was very clear because my dream was to make it to the US. So my worry was, what if I get married, I'll get entangled. So I never wanted to get into that. But then it's her mother who sent the proposal to me. And then I said, I need to think about it because I cannot take the decision. You know, there are certain decisions which I have left my parents to take a call. This was one among them. My dad some other plans for me but I did something totally different. So I had decided, marriage is one thing which I will leave it to my parents. And then my parents did visit Delhi somewhere in the month of July or August and then my mom said, son, I think the ladies is pkay, so I will give my green signal for you to get married.
Nagraj, I was listening to one of your videos where you start by talking about karma and karma is something that a lot of people say that current state in life is because of some karma or the other. And often people talk about blindness, people being blind in today's scenario, simply because of some karma that happened in some previous avatar or previous incarnation. So what are your views on karma and has karma played a role in your life?
To make it short. Karma is nothing but a principle of action, doctrine of action rather. The karma is the result that you've got or you would get depending upon your past or present actions. I'll give a simple example of my own life. You know, my mom told this to me later on, whenever used to join a school, given that school for the blind, they used to do some kind of a genetic analysis. So they did ask my parents are you guys related, was there any person who was blind in one generation ago, two generations ago? Do you recollect anything? But in my case, they just could not come out to any conclusions as to why I became blind but then my mum told me once when I was the age of 10 or 11, there was a lunar eclipse when she was carrying me. And she never knew it's a lunar eclipse and she was looking into the reflection of the moon in the water.
Yeah.
So probably, I'm saying this may be or this can be an action.
Right.
And as I told you in the earlier video, like whenever I used to travel with my mom, with her in the bus when I was a kid. Then of course, I never knew what this karma is all about. They used to tell her in Kannada, "God knows what karma you have done to give birth to a child like this and God knows what karma he has done to be born blind". My mom said, "look, I don't know what is his karma, I don't know what is my karma. Now it is my karma to ensure this son of mine leads an independent life and stands up on his own leg rather than being dependent on anybody on this earth".
So what are your long term vision for your life In the remaining part of your life? What is it that you would like happen and what is it that you would like to achieve? Are there any goals/dreams?
I have already started working on this charge. What I do is I actually coach kids on voluntary basis.
Yeah.
Like I help them to convert their dreams into reality. And I do this with only those kids or somebody who approaches me. That's what I would like to do now as I grow in life further. Help people to convert those dreams of theirs into reality in their lives. You know, the best happiness that any individual can get is when he or she says something when they're a kid or when they're in their teens and as they grow when that same dream becomes a reality in their life. That's the greatest happiness that any individual can have for himself.
Well Nagraj, I wish you the very best in your plans. I think this idea of coaching kids is a great one. I wish you the very best and thank you so much for talking to me.
It's my honor and my pleasure, George. Thank you so much.
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