And then farther down that page is there is different types of dialog too, so some types of dialog practices. So there's the empathy circle at the biomass. There's unstructured dialog, just to think in terms of, what are structures that people have for, you know, for group dialog, there's debate, there's basic dialog participation workshop. That's, I think that's the one for bridge, USA has their own process. I'm not sure how that process works. There's living room dialog conversations. So there's a they have a they do left right, or they do have do some left right. But they have just general dialog process, and their process is very structured in terms of, here's a question, everybody answers it, here's another question, everybody answers it, here's another question, everybody answers it. And then you have a facilitator, for example, and I had taken part in one, and what happened is a conflict started. Hmm? And that process can't hold, doesn't really hold process conflict, because people just start, you know, talking over each other, get angry. And then I said, Well, we have this empathy circle process. And then the next day, we held an empathy circle, and everybody kind of really liked it. You know, that's cool. And then there's the internal international listening Association. They have listening circles, and I was kind of researching what their structure is, and they're using talking stick. So, you know the talking stick, there's a group you have a talking stick, and you pass that around, and everybody gets a chance to speak. You've probably heard of the talking stick, yeah, process, so, and I had done that, it Occupy Wall Street in Berkeley, you know, I didn't had that was 2011 so I wasn't, you know, I did not all a lot of workshops where they used active listening, but we did a facilitator talking stick, you know, circle, and it was one person, one woman there. She was very outspoken in that community. People didn't like her, though they somebody came and slashed her tent at night with a knife, and then they said that somebody exposed themselves or something to and so she was in kind of a traumatic state, and they went and had her in the Talking Circle. But she was also very, you know, outspoken. So she spent like, you know, 20 minutes, you know, or more, just talking right in the talking circle. So I and then there's a bunch of other people in the circle that want to speak too. So I thought, I thought, this doesn't really work, you know, the time, we need a different process. And then I thought I started getting the idea for empathy circle, which is, well, small groups, so we have the entire encampment, which is maybe 200 people camped out there, if, if they would all have small circles using active listening, you know, with each other. And then they would maybe speak go for an hour or two, and then they would all get up and change, you know, group. Oh, that's great. And then they would, so, all day long, you're having talking circles. So, so it was sort of, I was starting to get the idea for the empathy, you know, circle at that point. It didn't develop it until, you know, later, because they closed the encampment. So I didn't really get to put it, get it together. So anyway, so anyway, it's comparing the empathy circle to other practices, just at least a week, conceptually, you know, or, sorry, I'm wondering practices.