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Okay, well, welcome everyone to the thoughtful counselor Podcast. I'm very excited today to be in this discussion with two friends and colleagues, and we're going to be talking about the adoptee consciousness model. So we have Dr jayron Kim, and she is an associate professor in the School of Social Work and criminal justice in the University of Tacoma. Dr Kim's research is focused on the post adoption well being of adoptees throughout the lifespan, and her research includes the racial, ethnic and adoption socialization practices of Korean American adoptee parents, the use of out of home care for adoptees, adult inter country adoptees with adoption, displacement experiences and the preparation and training of professional social workers. Dr Kim prioritizes community based projects and is the author of the blog harlows Monkey. And our other guest today is Grace Newton, who is a PhD student at the crown Family School of Social Work, policy and practice at the University of Chicago, grace is interested in questions of race, identity, belonging and life course issues for adoptees, and her status as a Chinese trans racial adoptee drives her passion and authenticity in her personal, professional and academic work. Previously, Grace worked as a public adoption social worker in Wisconsin, served on the Advisory Council for the Korean American adoptee adoptive family Network Conference, and has authored the critical adoption blog red thread broken for more than a decade. So welcome grace and jayron to the thoughtful counselor, so glad you're here.
Thank you and inviting
us sure, in full disclosure, the I want to be sure to share that the three of us have been working together for about two years, possibly longer, on the adoptee consciousness model. So it's a little different that I might be part of this discussion in a different way, but I'm really glad for you to be here, because I think it's really important that we're sharing with lots of different communities about the adoptee consciousness model. So I'm going to ask first for those who may not be familiar with the adoptee consciousness model, I'm going to ask you how you would describe what it is to them, and I'll start with you to answer first. Sharon, please.
Okay, this is such a good question, because I think in academia, we have a tendency to create, you know, all these models and things with these big words and everything. So the way I kind of talk about the adoptee consciousness model is that it's like a framework or a container for us adoptees and for other people who know adoptees or work with adoptees to be thinking about, like, how do we understand our experiences, especially around kind of two things. One is, you know, oftentimes we don't really have a language for to, you know, to describe how we start to think about what adoption means to us. And then there's this other kind of layer of identity. And I think they get conflated as one thing sometimes, but they're really two different processes. So I kind of talk about it as like, how do you know, or how do you describe what happened to you as an adoptee, and how do you make sense of kind of your experiences? And I think the adoptee consciousness model is just a way for us to give some language and some examples to help us think that through.
Thank you, Grace. What would you like to add?
I think. The adoptee consciousness model. Well, something that we learned in some of the research that we've done as a group together is that this term, coming out of the fog is maybe not necessarily as common or as ubiquitously used as we initially thought, but that was one of the first phrases, and perhaps one of the only phrases that existed when I was trying to understand what was this thing that I was experiencing as I was coming into this awareness and knowledge of these more complicated parts of adoption. And so I think of the adoptee consciousness model, somewhat like, somewhat related to this term, coming out of the fog, but an expansion of that, where, instead of just this kind of pre and post state of you're either in the fog or you're not, The adoptee consciousness model is this, this kind of process that adoptees go through with various touch touchstones that have different tasks and different activities or things associated with each and so it kind of draws that process out. And then I think another kind of related, I guess it's rooted in also an academic, an academic piece. But there's the reconstruction model, the adoption reconstruction model by penny at all. And that was another one as I started digging more that I learned about. But I think I felt very limited by that as a young person, kind of experiencing this big awakening, because that model is specifically created with middle aged adoptees in mind. And I think the process, and that one is described as very linear, and it kind of ends with this last phase of being at peace, which I think I over over in the last 10 or so years, I've talked to a lot of adoptees, and I don't necessarily know how many I would describe as at peace with a little bow wrapped to nicely complete that. And so I think that what our model does is it, kind of it kind of is related to these other concepts and things that exist in the adoption world, but I think it teases it out a little bit more. And I think that like adoption itself, it's, it's a little bit adoption is messy, and our model allows for the process to not be just a clean this or that wrapped in a bow. It's, it's something that that people can experience differently at different part parts of their life. And I think it, yeah, it complicates that whole process.
Can I add something to that? I think that, like what Grace was explaining with some of these other kind of concepts, or with the the the framework developed by penny and at all in in for social workers and for psychologists and counselors, you know, we're really familiar With these developmental models. And they have developmental models for all sorts of things, you know, racial identity, and, you know, there's Ericsson's, you know, model development. There's so many development models, and they are also linear. And they, I feel like they, in some ways, they are limited, because there's this assumption that you go through a stage and then you're done with it. So as Grace was talking about like the pre or the post part of being in the fog or out of the fog, there's not a lot of nuance around just how complicated and messy we can experience adoption and our it's not just about our identity. It's also about like, what sorts of things do we do in these different touchstones that kind of help us understand not just who we are individually, but how we fit into this larger, broader world of other adoptees, adopted community? How do we see ourselves relating to these larger mezzo and macro events and environments that we're part of as well. So I think that our model can help people kind of see themselves, not just as an individual, but as part of a collective.
Thank you both, and for our listeners, we'll see. Include a link so you can see the graphic of our model that actually depicts the ACM as a spiral, which really captures what you're both speaking to, that it's not phases necessarily, that it's touchstones that one can enter and re enter multiple times throughout the lifespan. And being a professional counselor. I certainly have to acknowledge that Penny, I believe, has a counselor background, and the article that we're referencing, or the research, appeared in The Journal of counseling and counseling and development. So you alluded to this a little bit in terms of looking at not just identity, but also kinds of things that we're doing, and some of the pieces that we discovered in the research, and as we were thinking about what the model could look like, included pieces related to mental health, and what that might look like for people going through the consciousness process. So the question next is, why is it important for mental health providers to know about the adoptee consciousness model? And let's start with you this time. Grace, okay,
I think the adoptee consciousness model is important for mental health practitioners to know about, because we know that adoptees are a population that already is at heightened risk for various mental health just concerns or mental health, and I think mental health came up a lot in our Conversations with adoptees in our in the study that we did together, a lot of people as we they were talking about what resonated with them about these various touchstones, explicitly talked about the ways that mental health providers were or in Some cases, also were not helpful to them in understanding their adoptee identity and these larger kind of collective parts of this adoptee community, and I think that a lot of our participants also really talked about as they were going through this process their mental health deteriorating at certain points or really being triggered and having to confront mental health in different and new ways and process that specifically focused on their adoptee identity, I think that the adoptee consciousness model is also really important for mental health practitioners to know about. Because I think what we are trying to show with our research and with this model is that when someone has been raised in a transracial environment, uprooted from birth family, potentially birth country. Cultures that that this is a is a really natural process to go through, and that that these, these feelings of intensity, or the rupture, and these touchstones that we talk about, yeah, that this is just a natural process of coming into a heightened awareness about their adoptee identity, rather than something to be avoided or to be diagnosed as deviant or like to be solved, it, it's something that we feel is is just a part of this experience.
Thank you. Jay Ron, before you continue, you mentioned something grace, just for clarity, for maybe listeners who aren't familiar with this term, you use the term transracial adoptee. Can you explain to people who may not know what what do you mean by that?
Sure, so by transracial adoptees, I'm referring to adoptees who were raised in families who don't reflect their rate their own racial background. So we so that might be someone adopted from China or Korea, raised in a white family. And in those examples, those adoptions are also what we would call a transnational adoption, so someone who's born in one country and then adopted and raised in another country. Yeah.
Thank you, Taron,
so I couldn't agree more with the last part that grace was talking about, which is around helping mental health providers understand that it is totally a normative thing for adoptees as they start to learn more about their own adoption, or about the larger systems of adoption, to to have feelings, to have some set, you know, Grace talked about rupture, which is one of our touchstones, and that's really when you're kind of confronted by this information that really changes what you used to think about your adoption, or about adoption in general. And so it's like some examples of that could be, let's say you received a copy of your adoption records, and you see some information in your records that was new to you that made you think, oh, maybe my adoption didn't have to happen this way or that way from a personal experience. For example, right now South Korea, there's been some findings that there was widespread fraud and abuses in the adoption processes. So a Korean adoptee might watch a Frontline documentary or read a news article about that and realize, Oh, so many adoptees might have had families who did want to parent them but couldn't, and they were coerced, or they were, in some cases, illegally kidnapped or placed for adoption and and so that might change their whole kind of narrative around their own personal adoption Story, and they might be very angry, they might now have a sense of distrust. So one of our other touchstones is called dissonance, and that's really this, you know, kind of overwhelming sense of I don't know what to do with this information now. Do I know who I really am? Can I trust that all the people that were part of my adoption really had my best interests at heart. And so these are two of the touchstones that we really see a lot of the Mental Health kind of concerns rise up. And you know, there's a lot of counselors who haven't been trained on adoption at all, so they may just know what they've heard from society, or maybe the little bit of the narrative that says adoption just provides a better, safer home for a child, and they may not have done any looking into that at all for themselves. So if they were to have an adoptee who is one of their clients and they're working with them, it could be very harmful for them to repeat these kind of larger societal ideas about adoption and minimize maybe even unintentionally. Or the adoptee might feel gaslit by being told by their counselor that, well, I'm sure it didn't wasn't intended to be that way. Or, I'm sure, maybe, I'm sure you didn't misunderstand the situation. We you know as somebody who's been part of the adoptee community for 26 years or more now, and talking to just so many adoptees, that's one of the things they talk about a lot, is trying to understand and find language for their experiences, and bringing it up with their counselors, and then having their counselors kind of minimize or negate what they're saying. And so it's really important for them, for mental health practitioners to to understand the different touchstones and what sorts of things might come up when adoptees might be their clients and would help them beyond like give them language for it and help them understand kind of more nuance around the adoptee experience.
Thank you. In my years of practice working with adoptees, sadly, I heard many who saw other providers and were harmed in many ways by adoption microaggressions or dismissive comments, and that really dissuaded them from seeking out mental health counseling in the future. So I 100% agree with training needing to be very important for all mental health providers, and it's gotten better, but it's still not where we need it to be. So you alluded to this, also that Jaron in your response here, but to your comfort level, to share what personal and professional experiences led you to consider and create with us. The ACM,
well, first of all, good. This is disclosure. But Susan and I met each other in 2011 when we were both volunteering for an adoptive. Family Camp, summer camp. And you know how it is when you start to meet other adoptees and you talk and you realize that you're thinking a lot of the same things, especially as both of us who are professionals and have been working with other adoptees for so long. So for myself as a social worker or as a community member, and Susan as a counselor. So along with two of our other friends who we met up with at that same camp, we just started talking over the years about what we were seeing happening in the adoptee community and the as Grace alluded to earlier, the language really seemed to be kind of contained as like out of the fog, and it was like this moment of awakening. But as we all knew as professionals and talking to so many adoptees, that awakening doesn't happen just one time. It happens multiple times, and it happens in different ways, and we just wanted to develop more language, more terms that we could use to describe what we were seeing. And you know, personally for myself, I know there were certainly different moments in my life when I saw adoption really differently. So when I became a parent, for example, I saw adoption very, very differently. When I started my social work degree, and I started learning about the history of the Indian adoption project and transfacial adoption of black children the orphan trains, when I started to kind of learn the history of adoption practices in the United States as somebody who is now working in child welfare, these were all things that really made me think, oh, there's a lot we don't know. And now that I know that there have been all these harmful practices that we've done in social work and child welfare, it makes me feel differently about the work that I'm doing and how I'm trying to support adoptees and adoptive families, you know, and families that have lost or relinquished children through adoption, and I felt like the existing models just didn't provide enough language for me to kind of describe that. So on a personal level, it was helpful for me to start thinking about how I could describe and see my personal experiences. But then also as a on a professional level as well.
Thank you, Grace. How about for you?
Yeah, so I was not a part of the original conceptualization of the adoptee consciousness model, but I was thinking in my own world separately about adoptee consciousness and what it means and what happens when adoptees come into consciousness about not just their own individual adoption experience, but these connected histories and frankly, problematic aspects of adoption history. And so I, in my graduate my Masters of Social Work program, I wrote a paper called The trauma and healing of consciousness, which was an auto ethnography, and in it I, I used it to explore my own conscious coming into consciousness process and the the experience of of doing that, which I found to be really traumatic in some ways, as it really upended my childhood innocent and incomplete knowledge of adoption and as it was being replaced with this more critical, nuanced, inaccurate history of what has happened to children who have been separated from their parents and across different times in history and across different countries all over the globe. And so when I published my paper chair on Kim, read it and messaged me that she and some other adoptee scholars had been thinking about consciousness and were thinking similarly, and invited me to be a part of the project. And so I'm really glad that she did. And. That this has been, it's been such a really interesting project to be a part of, for me as a like a beginning scholar, but also as someone who, yeah, who had been thinking about this kind of critical consciousness on my own, and then to do it in a group. Yeah,
thank you, Grace. I remember we saw that, and we were so excited, and we thought, Oh, well, we should ask grace to join us. And we were so happy you agreed, because it really has enriched our work to have different perspectives of different generations who are going through this process. So I'm wondering, based on what you've experienced and seen, how has the adoptee consciousness model been received by the adoptee community, and are there any interesting ways that you see the model being applied? So let's start with you this time. Grace.
I think that overall, I I've been so excited by how overwhelmingly positive the reception to of the adoptee consciousness model has been by adoptees. I think that, as we've kind of alluded to, there's, there's been these kind of linear development models or or this kind of binary of being in and out of the fog. But I think that, you know, we felt that, that there was something missing. And I think that the the positive reception from adoptees that about the adoptee consciousness model is also really validating, that these other adoptees have also felt like what what is currently available, what was available and what existed or accessible didn't really match their experiences wasn't really aligning and in a in a way that our model is. And so I think I've seen some really interesting uses of the adoptee consciousness model at the con conference I attended last summer, I was really surprised to find out that when a an arts based session used our adoptee consciousness model to kind of create A collective song Among the people in the session that they used as a tool, like an arts based tool, to describe this consciousness process. And I've heard from a friend that an adoptee playwright has been using the adoptee consciousness model to help with his character development of the adoptees in in the story that he's creating. And I've also we learned that Angela Tucker, of the adoptee mentoring society, has used the adoptee consciousness model as part of her mentor training process, but also as kind of a an evaluative tool to make sure that these prospective mentors are in an expansiveness or the activism stage, so that we're not pairing people who are seeking mentorship with someone who's actively going through their own rupture or dissonance, which is also an activating time for that, that person as well. And so I think that I've been, I've been really, really impressed with the just creative and non academic uses that people are using the adoptee conscious model for
that is amazing. Taron, how about you?
Yeah, I don't know if there's much else to add, other than we've seen a lot of people on social media, a lot of adoptees, and also some adoptive parents and adoption agencies use the term and reference our model to kind of help people, again, I think, expand their own language around our experiences and kind of make it more holistic than just the binary of in the fog or out of the fog. We we know that there are folks that are using it for like, writing prompts, and people are using it in all kinds of different ways. And I think for me, one of the ways I know that it's resonating is when people reach out to us and say, Oh, have you created a. Source about this. This part of our experiences, the adoptee consciousness model related to parenting or to how to find a therapist, or, you know, all those different things. It's been really cool to see so much interest and people wanting more resources around this, this model,
I agree that hearing how the community has responded or seen it on various social media platforms has been really satisfying and just gratifying to see how well it resonates with so many different people, including those who have questions about it or push back on some of the different touchstones. We found that a lot with our research, maybe not a lot, but we did find some of that, and that helps, that helps strengthen the model. And so you both know, someone approached me from the Netherlands to talk about the model, because they were using the ACM to interview people, trans, racially and transnationally adopted people in adults in the Netherlands, and it resonated with them too. So it's having international appeal, and that really is just amazing to see how it's resonated. So our my final question has to do with where you what you see next. So what do you hope to see with the ACM going forward and its implications on adoption related practice, including mental health practices and policies? Jeran, why don't you start?
Well, one of the things that I know that we as a group have talked about is maybe developing or writing a book. To give some more examples, I think it's true in academic language. It's been challenging just because, you know, these articles are often behind paywalls at journals, and we've tried really intentionally to make our work as accessible as possible. So that's why we have a website, and we have a couple of Open Access articles, and we would like to develop some more handouts or guides for folks. And one of the things that I did when I was talking about the adoptee consciousness model for Angela Tucker's training is for mentors. I talked about what might it look like for a mentor and adoptee mentor to be in a one on one session with somebody who might be experiencing rupture, or who might be experiencing status quo. And so I think what I've been hearing is we want more examples, and we want more insider guidance on what that might look like for us. And I anticipate that in the counseling field, it'll be very similar. I know we've had birth parents as well as adoptive parents reach out to us to ask us for resources for them. So I I anticipate we will have lots of opportunities to create more resources.
Thank you. Grace.
Yeah, I think in addition to this kind of book project that we've talked about. You know, we have a couple more papers in the works with the current data that we have. And I think that another really interesting avenue would could be an adoptive parent consciousness model. I think that as we've talked about in a group, as adoptees, go through their own consciousness process. Adoptive parents, if they're going to be supportive, if they're going to be in a generative, continuing relationship with their adoptee, parents kind of have to go through their own consciousness process as well, and so that's something that I think about. I think that, you know, I would also really love to see the adoptee consciousness model embedded more in some of these kind of practitioner trainings with like we alluded to in the beginning, that there aren't that many adoption competent, competent, in quotes, therapists out there. And I know for myself, I went through an adoption competency training program as a social worker. And I think that embedding the adopted consciousness model in some of that kind of programming and training would be really something that I'd love to see. And I think I also am just really I already have some adoptee. Clinician friends who have told me that they're using the adoptee consciousness model in their sessions, and I think I'm looking forward to seeing that become even more widely used, because I think that it really is resonating with and beneficial to adoptees. And I think that one of the one of the things that's so hard about kind of coming into all this information is that, for the most part, when we're young, because we aren't taught these adoption histories, because we aren't taught to think about adoption in critical ways. I think so much of it is like not having the language and the history and the knowledge. And I think that the adoptee consciousness model, as people kind of discover the histories on their own. It's it's a language, a language tool that they can pick up that is is helpful as they're going through the process.
Would you want to add anything to that?
I just wanted to add that. I think we were very intentional about kind of our theoretical concepts that we were trying to bring to the adoptee consciousness model, so it didn't just come out of a vacuum. And I think it's important to talk about what Grace was just saying, about how kind of knowledge and awareness is really important as a kind of a mechanism for liberation and freedom. And so we were very intentional about kind of looking at both like an individual process of coming to consciousness, which is what Gloria anzaldua writes about. And then, as well as Paulo freires work around collective liberation through education. So a lot of what we're, I think, trying to do with our model is to help people see that there's ways for them to become more informed about adoption, and that in the end, it can be a way for healing and for liberation, their own liberation, because So much of adoption is really done as a practice, with secrecy, with shame, with erasure. It's hidden, and a lot of adoption practices are really not transparent. It's so it's it's no wonder that adoptees start to feel the sense of almost betrayal that they didn't know this information before, and so the more transparent we can make adoption processes, so that we actually know what's happening, I think is better for all of us. And until that happens, or while we're working towards that, I'm hoping that our model will really help individuals who are connected to adoption in one way or another, to be able to to see a way to kind of help with healing and for kind of a greater sense of wholeness for their their own lives and and to really see us as being part of a community. I think all three of us have really been proud of and kind of really honor the fact that we've been part of these adoptee centric communities, and so I would love to see more adoptees find their communities, their adoptee communities too.
Thank you both. As you were talking, it occurred to me too that when we were doing our initial launching of this model several years ago, we also talked about the consciousness process for mental health providers or adoption worker providers. So they too, as they're learning hopefully, more about these nuances, working with this population, may go through their own consciousness process of maybe being a part of a system that they weren't fully aware of what was going on, but now they are gaining awareness, and sometimes, as we we've learned that doesn't feel very comfortable. So it's important as you're delving into this world as a provider, maybe as a professional counselor or a social worker, whatever mental health background you're coming to this podcast with, to be prepared to know that this could ring up some discomfort. It might not feel great to learn about some of these historical problems and and current problems. I hate to say but we know that some of these things are still happening, but that is part of this process, and that's right along the model that we've crafted. Based on some of the previous scholarship work that jam mentioned. Is there anything else that either one of you want to share with the audience before we say goodbye? Well, I want to thank you both for giving more a picture of what the ACM is, how it's important for practitioners to be aware of so that you can support the adoptees in your practice that most likely you will come in contact with during your professional careers. And again, we will post the links for listeners to be able to visit our website and see the model and download some of our papers. Thank you both so much. Thank you.
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