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The Two Sides of Practice: Mindfulness and Concentration: Otter Voice Meeting Notes

The Two Sides of Practice: Mindfulness and Concentration

John Pulleyn56min

Unknown Speaker

00:04

Well, good morning, everyone. Oh, I'm not ready yet. Hold on.

Speaker 1

00:15

Yes, the date. So today is Sunday, September, September, 2025

Speaker 1

00:31

so I know I've mentioned this before. This is after seshin. I've mentioned this story before this so this is after seshin, and on Sunday, we always have the post sechen Breakfast at 10 here at the center. So after seven days of intense concentration and working, we get the sleep, and then in the morning, everyone comes to have breakfast. And I've mentioned this before. You know, it's one of my favorite all time, favorite times, even though I have to get up earlier to get into the kitchen, to manage the kitchen, I love being in the kitchen right after seshin. And the reason being is that after seven days of this intense concentration, people are just flowing. It's just kind of like a beehive. Yes, people are talking and laughing. Try and cut down on that on a little bit, but there's just no people are whether they're aware of it or not. They're not encumbered by thought so much, if at all, after it's a sheen. And so everything just moves and flows, even though we're like, eight, 910, 11 people in the kitchen, there's just, there's hardly any friction, just like it's, yeah, it's just like bees and a beehive, you know, or just moving around, flowing. And so it occurred to me that that's what I'd like to talk about for this one, which is concentration and mindfulness, and that balance between the two, because that basically after sesshin in that crammed kitchen, there's the Mindfulness is just everyone is just kind of moving around flow. So that's one example of it. Another example of it is athletes. Really have athletes on top of the game. I think of downhill skiing. Long, long time ago, I always remember this John-sensei gave a Dharma talk. So when it was he Zendo, and I think the title was what I did on my winter vacation, and he basically went downhill skiing out in British Columbia. I don't remember anything about the talk, but I do remember, I'm guessing that he was talking about mindfulness and the body being relaxed and being able to navigate the hills and not running into trees. And so that's, that's that mindfulness, that open awareness. There's, there's another term that we've been using recently. And really, that's, I think that's, it dawned on me this morning, that's what I'll really be talking about. There's the concentration, but then there's that mindfulness, that open awareness. And one final example is when I was, I don't even think I was in my 20s. On my I was 18 or 19 years old, and I was driving these Lee, really large vehicles, and I was learning how to drive it, and basically, you know, and some of these rows were pretty narrow, and I got so focused on the front end of the truck, the tank, and I was, like, so focused on that that I was almost hitting things. I almost hit this old lady, and thank goodness I didn't. The sergeant behind me was like screaming at me to turn, to turn a bit, you know, he's up on this turret. And he explained to me after he says, like, don't that's the concentration I was so concentrated at the front of the truck. He says, You don't concentrate on that. You what you look ahead. Head on the road, and you get, it's just that trusting the process, you know the you get your field of vision right? It's that mindfulness. And you just kind of, you know how, how far to the left or right you should be on the road by looking ahead of the truck, not in front. So, yeah, concentration is like constant single minded attention on the front of the truck. No good for driving. You got to have that panoramic awareness being on the road, and you figure it out. You. Really what I'll be talking about is getting out of the way. It's another way of putting this, this mindfulness or open awareness. So I'm going to be reading this, this really great article. It's a Dharma discourse, and it's by this Theravadin monk. His name is Monte Han Paula, gunaratana, and bante on the difference, discusses on the difference between mindfulness and concentration. And so we'll jump right in Vipassana, which, by the way, Vipassana, I was just looking that up, and it basically means to see things as they are. Vipassana meditation is something of a mental balancing act. You're going to be cultivating two separate qualities of the mind, mindfulness and concentration. Ideally, these two work together as a team. They pull in tandem, so to speak. Therefore, it is important to cultivate them side by side and in a balanced matter, if one of the factors is strengthened at the expense of the other, the balance of the mind is lost and meditation becomes impossible. Okay, so, you know, as Zen practitioners, that's not so much of the case for us. You know, especially at the beginning, really, our practice is a concentration practice. We're putting our attention on the counting of the breath or the koan or following the breath. It's not so much mindfulness, especially at the beginning, but I'll go on. So yeah, just just a little further details. So one point in concentration on, say, the koan mu, yes. So the mindfulness for us. So this is for as Zen practitioner, the mindfulness for us is the noticing, noticing when we're lost in thought and it bring it right back, get right back to the counting of the breath. Say that's the mindfulness part. He goes on, concentration and mindfulness are distinctly different function. They each have the role to play in meditation, and the relationship between between them is definite and delicate. Concentration is often called one pointedness of mind. It consists of forcing the mind to remain on one static point. Please note the word force concentration is pretty much a force type of activity. It can be developed by force, by sheer unremitting willpower, and once developed, it retains some of that force flavor. Eventually with our practice, I think it's fair to say, for months, even years, we are really forcing ourselves to get our attention on, say, the counting of the breath. But the irony of it, of course, is that as time goes on, we we can't, we can't do that, or it's not that we can do it. We do. But eventually, through the practice, there's less of a force. It's less contrived this, but it's just it's so hard at the beginning to keep our attention on the counting that it is a certain amount of forcing. It's, I like to use the word energy or effort. And eventually, of course, when the body mind relaxes and we're more into our practice, then there's less of that forcing quality. It's just more of a gentler kind of returning to the counting. Say you

Speaker 1

09:03

mindfulness, on the other hand, is a delicate function leading to refined sensibilities. These two are partners in the job of meditation. Mindfulness is a sensitive one. It notices things concentrated, provided the power, it keeps the attention pinned down to one item. Ideally, mindfulness is in this relationship. Mindfulness picks the objects of attention and notice. Notices when the attention has gone astray. Concentration does the actual work of holding the attention steady on that chosen object, object. If either of these partners is weak, your meditation goes astray. Concentration could be defined as that faculty of the mind which focuses single, mindedly on one object without interruption. It must be emphasized that true concentration is a wholesome one point. Ness of mind, that is, the state is free from greed, hatred and delusion, unwholesome one pointness Is is all unwholesome one pointedness is also possible, but it will not lead to liberation. You can be very single minded in a state of lust, but that gets you nowhere. Uninterrupted focus on something that you hate does not help you at all. In fact, such unwholesome concentration is fairly short lived, even when it is achieved, especially when it is used to harm others. True. Concentration itself is free from such contaminants. It is a state in which the mind is gathered together and thus gains power and intensity. We might use the analogy of a lens. Parallel waves of sunlight falling on a piece of paper will do no more than warm the surface, but that same amount of light, when focused through a lens falls on a single point and the paper bursts into flames. Concentration is the lens. It produces the burning intensity necessary to see into the deeper reaches of the mind. Mindfulness selects the object that he that the lens will focus on, and looks through the lens to see what is there?

Speaker 1

11:32

Concentration should be regarded as a tool. Like any tool, it can be used for good or for ill. Sharp knife can be used to create a beautiful carving or to hurt harm someone. It is all up to the one who uses a knife. Concentration is similar, properly used. It can assist you towards liberation, but can it also be used in the service of the ego. It can operate in the framework of achievement and competition, you can use concentration to dominate others, all right, maybe just something about this achievement and competition, all right. So we come to practice, and we start working on counting of the breath things arise in the mind that we become aware of. So yeah, maybe there is this constant, this competition, or this ambition, or this striving, so on and so forth that doesn't really matter. Just put your whole body mind, put your whole concentration on, say, the koan. And whatever arises, arises and not making a big deal out of it. Yes, the ambition is there. We want to break through. We want to move. We want we just want to get it, which is nothing to get. But we want that. But just keep returning your attention on it. And as time goes on, there's that word wonderful, the purifying the mind with through this concentration practice. Don't worry about this ambition, and you'll see it. It arises, great. All right, you see it. Just get back to the counting. Just get back to the koan. That's all you need to do. And as time goes on, we just, we keep refining this practice, and we keep seeing more, and we keep seeing more. We keep seeing more in the mind, we just get back to the practice and not concern ourselves with our perceived notions of we're just horrible human beings flailing at this practice. No, you'll still see that. You see things you don't like about yourselves. But it really doesn't matter. Just there's that inside, great. You see it. You see, say, ambition in the mind. All right, just, just bring it back. Just get back to the counting, get just get back to the koan, the

Speaker 1

14:09

really deep concentration can only take place under certain specific conditions. Buddhists go to a lot of trouble to build meditation halls and monasteries. Their main purpose is to create a physical environment free of distractions in which to learn this skill, no noise, no interruptions. Just as important, however, is a creation of a distraction free emotional environment. Well, here Bonte is a monk, and he does talk a little bit about monasteries, which I think I'll just, I'm just going to skip over that doesn't really, yeah, I'm just going to skip over it. Mindfulness, on the other hand, is not dependent on any such particular circumstance, physical or otherwise. You. It is a pure noticing factor. Thus it is free to notice whatever comes up, lust, hatred or noise. Mindfulness is not limited by any condition. It exists to some extent in every moment, in every circumstance that arises also. Mindfulness has no fixed object of focus. It deserves change. It just looks at whatever is passing through the mind, the body, mind, and it does not categorize distractions and interruptions are noticed with the same amount of attention as the formal Objects of Meditation. In a state of pure mindfulness, your attention just flows along whatever changes are taking place in the mind. Shift, shift, shift, now, this, now, this, now, this. All right, there's a lot to that paragraph on mindfulness. I think the key the key words that I want to bring up is the noticing and the non judging, just things are arising and you're not you're not suppressing them. You're not clinging to them. I tried to think of an analogy on

Unknown Speaker

16:20

this mindfulness. And so this is what I came up with for this open awareness.

Speaker 1

16:28

So a couple days ago, as I was went for a walk after lunch, and I walked through the park in front of the Science Museum, Nature and Science Museum. So imagine, if you will, there's a paved road, narrow road that that leads to the museum, and there's grass and trees on both sides, wonderful open space as part of the museum. There's also a charter school that's there, and so at lunchtime, the kids are often out. They're like, you know, eight, 910, year old children outside playing with their teacher. And so I was walking down this paved road, sun was out, perfect breeze, and there were children everywhere. So I was just walking along this road heading towards the museum. And then there's these kids skipping rope, and then the leaves rustling. I noticed the leaves rustling along the road looking at the tree. And then there was these two young women, and they were doing this video selfie. And I walk on and then there's these other kids. They're just drawing with chalk on the road. I kind of go around them. I hear the sound of the crows. So throughout all of that, it's just the direct experience, just the noticing. You're not clinging to anything. You're not thinking, This is great. I love this, and look at this. Thoughts may arise, but it's just this open awareness, if you're just moving along, experiencing moment by moment, no judgment. What are these two women doing with their selfies like, why are they spending so much time on their phones just this open awareness, you know? And you're just moving along, and you're unencumbered by your thoughts, if thoughts are arising, just moving along with everything. It does kind of remind me of shikantaza, which, for the purpose of this talk, I won't get into too much, but so shikantaza Is this practice where you're basically not even following the breath. You're just sitting doing zazen, and you're kind of like a satellite where you're just receiving everything. You're not clinging to anything. You're not clinging to your thoughts. You hear the sound, you experience the sound, and then the next thing, and then the next thing, and you're just not, yeah, you're just not bound by anything. And you're just experiencing whatever rises in the mind, whatever comes from the so called outside world, you're just it just going through you, kind of like a sieve, where it's just going through you, and you're not bounding yourself to anything. Last year, when I was on my sabbatical, you know, I was hanging out with the teachers in New Zealand a lot. And mahalo Roshi mentioned, I mentioned, you know, I was to her that I was just reading in the park, in this park, and there all these kids playing. It was just wonderful. And she just said, you know, I talked to a Japanese teacher, and he described shikantaza as it's like. An old person sitting on a it's like an old woman sitting on a park bench at a city park watching the children play at play. You

Speaker 1

20:27

you can't develop mindfulness by force active teeth, gridding, willpower won't do any good at all. As a matter of fact, it will hinder progress. Mindfulness cannot be cultivated by struggle. It grows by realizing, by letting go, by just settling, settling down in the moment and letting yourself get comfortable whatever you are experiencing. This does not mean that mindfulness happens all by itself, far from it, energy is required. Effort is required. But this effort is different from force. Mindfulness is cultivated by a gentle effort. Persistence and a light touch are the secrets. Mindfulness is cultivated by constantly pulling oneself back to a state of awareness, gently, gently, gently, alright, I think I've already mentioned this. This is what we're doing with our concentration practice as well. You know, the first couple of years, or even a decade, we might be forcing, forcing it an awful lot, but what we really need to do is just relax into the practice and that, yes, put the energy and effort into noticing your loss in thought, and it's gently bringing it back to the counting. And it varies, you know, especially in such and that can vary. Sometimes, when I was working on mu, it was, I was just feeling so frustrated sometimes, especially when I just wasn't into it. But, you know, sometimes you have to kind of force it, but, but, yeah, I don't want to use the for the word force. Just really, like, put more energy into it, not the striving, just kind of just, yeah, putting. And then sometimes you don't have to. It's more of a gentle, you know, it's just kind of, there's the forcing, but then there can also be the gentle, a gentle approach. I know I'm kind of contradicting myself, but I think it as time goes on, there's less of that forcing, there's less of that striving, and that's, that's when things can really change is when we're putting more of an effort and energy, a more of a gentle but it's so hard at the beginning, it's not, you know, we often say it's simple practice, but not easy. And through time, you just have to trust a process through time, you know, the more you practice, the more there's less of that forceful quality to your concentration practice zazen you

Speaker 1

23:25

you. Mindfulness is a broader and larger function than concentration. It is an all encompassing function. Concentration is exclusive. It settles down on one item and ignores everything else. Mindfulness. Mindfulness is inclusive. It stands back from the focus of attention and watches with a broad focus, quick to notice any change that occurs. All right again for us, it's the noticing, the noticing we're lost in thought. We're noticing we're bogged down with, say, anxiety or anger or but just returning you notice that just get back to counting or the mu or the practice or the breath, if you have focused the mind on a stone, concentration will only see only the stone. Let me back up a big So mindfulness is inclusive. It stands back from the focus of attention and watches with a broad focus, quick to notice any change that occurs. If you have focused the mind on a stone, concentration will see only the stone, alright. So just this concentrating on stone just kind of reminded me of this, this, which is, yeah, it reminds me of basketball and the foul shot. So I remember seeing this long time ago in college. You know, it was a college game. Them, and it just looked like so much fun to me, because the player was at, you know, doing the foul shot and behind the net, behind the behind the net, excuse me, behind the hoop. There's a, you know, in the in the rafters, were all these students, and they were doing everything, everything to distract the player. You know, I had no idea they did that. And in fact, when I was when I was looking up, I was trying to, I was trying to look for something on the internet, and I came across this video is, this is recent, whereas is a college game. I don't know which game it was, but the person was there in in the back the the, you know, the kids had set up this inflatable tube, man, you know, one of those air dancers you see just waving around. And so when the player would come up to do the foul shot, they would turn those fans on. There's like, two of them, just like, trying to distract the player. And by the way, that player, whoever was got the two foul shots, got them sunk in anyway, all right, so, but as a basketball player, when you're at that foul shot, and it is, I've listened and it can be some people really screw it up for a long period of time. They're on or off. It's, it's, it's hard, but there you go. There's that concentration. The player needs to just concentrate fully, their full attention to get in the hoop. There's an NBA player, Bill Russell said, once said, I don't hear the boos because I don't hear the cheers.

Speaker 1

26:52

Mindfulness stands back from this process, aware of the stone, aware of concentration, focusing on the stone, aware of the intensity of that focus, focus, and instantly aware of the shift of attention when concentration is distracted. All right, that sounds like a lot. That's why Zen is just so simple. You know, don't have to worry about what he just said about this mindfulness. However, this is what he says after it is mindfulness which notices that the distraction has occurred, and it is mindfulness which redirects the attention to the stone. There you go. Mindfulness is more difficult to cultivate than concentration, because it is a deeper reaching function. Concentration is merely focusing a mind, rather like a laser beam. It has the power to burn its way deep into the mind and illuminate what is there, but it does not understand what it sees. Well. It does not understand what it sees, especially if one gets into a state of Samadhi where you just there's just nothing there, and you're just wholeheartedly on mu or what or who. Mindfulness does not react to what it sees. There it is. Again. Mindfulness does not react to what it sees two women with the selfie, just not reacting to that, just experiencing it. It just sees and understands. Mindfulness is the essence of patient. Patience, therefore whatever you see must simply be accepted, acknowledged and dispassionately observed. All right, I want to talk a little about this dispassionately, dispassionately observed, because it does sound kind of cold and impassive, and that's not Zen. I think more accurately, we can describe it as not reacting to whatever is in the mind, not getting engaged in her own drama. That's the thing that I noticed once I started really buckling down and doing this practice. Is how much of a drama King that goes on up there. I'm just such a drama king with, with the grudges, the resentments, the it's not going well, and then, you know, it's, it's going well, and there's, you know, that there's the other side to it. I'm great. I'm doing great. This is fantastic. I'm just, I'm gonna burn right through it, and I'm gonna get through my koan this time. You know, it's just, it's, I think we go back and forth on those, at least that's my experience. Some people tend to be more negative on themselves. They have a lot of negative thoughts, negative feelings. Or so called negative feelings, whereas others pride confidence. There's nothing wrong with confidence, but overly confident just and, you know, I think we all have that we go back and forth in that in the mind as we deepen our practice, and none of it matters. None of it matters. Just keep returning your attention to right now, right here. So I'm gonna switch over a little bit and this, I want to talk a little more about this dispassion, because, again, sometimes I know in the past I've read from Joe, go back and it does feel, sometimes feels cold a little. So I'm just going to switch switch gears here, and just I'm going to read from Guo Gu, silent illumination. So the title is silent illumination, a Chan Chan, Buddhist path to natural awakening. I'll just get right into it. Zen practice is relating to ourselves and others in an open and receptive way where we allow everything to flow and recognize that each moment is alive, vibrant, filled with infinite possibilities. This is actually the nature of experiencing the workings of Buddha nature and the direct expression of natural awakening. It is who we are free from the internal shackles of thoughts and feelings and the external conditioning of form. All right, really like that word, the internal shackles of thoughts and feelings. So what does he mean by that, internal shackles of thoughts. I mean, it just basically means the grasping, the grasping of thoughts, the grasping of feelings. I always like to use that those two sides. You know, we're not suppressing our thoughts, we're not suppressing our feelings. That's impossible to do. But we're not grasping, not clinging, holding on to

Speaker 1

32:30

so i want to talk a little more about feelings, because this is something That, again, getting away from this, this word dispassionate. I Yeah, there's a story I used to hear every single time in at the workshop that Bonin Roshi would give. This is basically, you know, his teacher, Roshi Kapleau, when he was training in Japan. Harada Roshi told him the story. This was his teacher. So this is our grandfather, Dharam grandfather, Harada Roshi told Phil Kapleau, young Phil Kapleau, this story, which was the following. I'd hear the story every time in the workshop, which was Harada said that he had a terrible, terrible Templar temple temper, so much so much so that he felt he probably would have killed someone. But then, luckily, he got into Zen, and he channeled all of that anger energy into his practice. And after about a year and a half two years, he did break through Kensho, and he told Phil Kapleau that it took him another 10 years of intense monastic training and practice where he felt he was finally free of his anger. Now what does that mean to be free from your anger? It doesn't mean, it doesn't mean that this Roshi never got angry again. No, not at all. It basically means to be free from your anger. Is basically you're not obviously. He never suppresses anger. He was very much in touch with his anger this teacher. But you're not cling to your anger. You're not holding on to it. So when you experience anger, and you get angry, then it just, it's kind of like the melting of a snowflake on hot pavement. It just you experience the anger and then you move on, not holding on to it. That's the freedom. And this applies to everything we're feeling. If it's anxiety, just return your practice, it has a life, so called life of its own. But the sooner you get back to just boring into mu, boring into Hu, the anxiety will pass. You don't need to know what the anxiety was or why you're anxious. Sometimes you might have that. Insight, but it really doesn't matter. Just get back to the practice.

Speaker 1

35:12

Like I say, that's the freedom. It's not grasping. It did remind me of another story that my wife told me Cecily, when she was on staff, and this is when she was a receptionist, and she came into the teacher's quarters, and Roshi was there, and she she screwed something up, and she really dropped the ball on something, and Roshi just lashed out at her, angrily lashed out at her, and she followed her eyes, and then she left. So five minutes later, she had to go see Roshi again, and she was kind of nervous, and she went into the corner as he was at his desk, and it was gone. She brought what she needed to bring to him, and he just Yeah, and they even laughed, and it had nothing to do with with so that's the freedom. You know, Roshi sometimes would lash out. He'd get angry, but it would just disappear, and you'd see him 510 minutes later. And where is it? It's gone, of course, as time goes on, as the longer we practice, we get softer and things don't bother us as much. For people who do have who really cling to their anger and hold on to grudge grudges for years, even decades, it does, it does, if we just stick with this practice, just trust the process. We do get softer. We do things don't annoy us so much anymore. And even if we do get angry, and when we get angry, it's not if we do, it's when we get angry, it's not such a big deal anymore. It just goes. Can go through us, and we just don't hold on to that anymore the way we used to. Just for me, this is such an important point, important, important point, you know, this whole realm of the feeling. It's not that the feelings aren't real. We say in Zen, nothing is real. You know, there's thoughts feelings, it's ultimately they are not. Why are they not? Because everything is im permanent. Everything passes through us. The problem is that we hold on to those things. We hold on to our thoughts, we hold on to our feelings, and that's when we can really kind of get stuck in the mud for a long period of time. It's getting unstuck. This practice is all about getting unstuck.

Speaker 1

37:55

Back to Guo Gu. We want things to stay the same because it gives us a sense of security and control, but nothing stays the same. When we embrace change, we become vulnerable, and this vulnerability is true, courage, their strength in being okay with a loss of control, with unpredictability and potential loss in truth, nothing can break us. We as humans are so resilient, it is only when we try to control and hold on to things that we feel broken. The reverse is also true. When we experience loss we desperately try to control. This is because deep inside we feel broken, so we try to fix ourselves. We resist how things really are, but if we embrace our vulnerability, tap into who we truly are, and align with this open awareness, whatever difficulties we face will eventually be integrated within us and will be resolved. There's always going to be opposition when we fixate on ideas about me, I and mine. We can respond to the world without injecting a sense of quote, self, close quote, let me say that again. But we can respond to the world without injecting a small, small self, a sense of small self, into our decisions, views and endeavors. This mean our own ideas about gain and loss, benefit and harm, do not block our decisions and experiences. Instead, we consider what is needed depending on the circumstances. The difficulties we face in life are indicators of where, where we are stuck. We must allow ourselves to be open to our underlying feelings. There it is, we must allow ourselves to be open to our underlying feelings and allow them to come through without judging ourselves. Say that again, we must allow ourselves to be open to our underlying feelings. And allow them to come through without judging ourselves.

Unknown Speaker

40:05

Reminded me of this story. Sachu Joh weeps as a woman.

Speaker 1

40:14

Sachujo studied with Master Hakuin ekaku and attained great enlightenment when she was old. Her grandmother died, and she was overcome with grief. She wept bitterly at the funeral, an old man from the neighborhood scolded her, saying, Why are you wailing and carrying on? So people will wonder what sort of enlightenment you experience? Don't you know that there is no birth and no death. Such a Joe shot back at him, you self righteous old fool. What do you know about it? My tears and weeping helped my granddaughter far more than incense, candles and the chanting of monks, the old man left without a word. I so when we're grieving, when we're crying, we're just crying.

Speaker 1

41:16

Okay, so back to this mindfulness and concentration essay

Speaker 1

41:28

we are ignorant, we are selfish and greedy and boastful. We lust, then we lie. These are facts. Mindfulness means seeing these facts and being patient with ourselves, accepting ourselves as we are. It might sound like some kind of passes. Oh, okay, I'm just bogged down with say that's just the way it is. I'm lust, but with lust or anger or greed, but it's just a noticing and not reacting and not judging. You.

Speaker 1

42:04

Not being beating ourselves up. Mindfulness means seeing these facts and being patient with ourselves, accepting ourselves as we are that goes against the grain. We don't want to accept it. We want to deny it or change it or justify it, but acceptance is the essence of mindfulness.

Speaker 1

42:31

If we want to grow mindfulness, we must accept what mindfulness finds. It may be boredom, irritation or fear. It may be weakness, inadequacy or false, whatever it is what is that is The way we are. That is what is real you

Unknown Speaker

43:06

skipping along.

Speaker 1

43:14

When getting started in meditation, one of the first things you will notice is how incredibly active the mind really is the Theravada tradition calls this phenomenon monkey mind. The Tibetan tradition like it. Likens it to a waterfall of thought. Don't get discouraged. This happens to everybody, and there is a simple solution. Put most of your effort into one point in this at the beginning. Just keep calling the attention from wandering over and over again, tough it out. A couple of months down the track, and you will have developed concentration power, then you can start pumping your energy into mindfulness. Do not, however, go so far with the concentration that you find yourself going into a stupor. You

Speaker 1

44:10

right. Concentration develops naturally in the wake of strong mindfulness. The more you develop the noticing factor, the quicker you will notice the distraction, and the quicker you will pull out of it and return to the formal object of attention. The natural result is increased concentration. And as concentration develops, it assists the development of mindfulness. The more concentration power you have, the less chance there is of launching off on a long chain of analysis about the distraction. You simply note the distraction and return your attention to where it's supposed to be. All right, my time is almost up, so I'll just end with this whole concentration mindfulness in sesshin. Once in a while, I'll give this encouragement talk, especially just before. Were about to leave the Zen do for a meal. And so the talk goes like this, for a couple years, I was doing this martial art Akito. Not going to get into too much detail about it, but you know, it's not an adversarial kind of martial art. You do. You do have a partner that you work with. And basically it all comes down to energy. So when the person your partner comes to thrust at you, you use their energy and return it and say, flip them over, and then they roll away. So it's kind of like I had my Aikido teacher at the time says, you know, Aikido is all about, like the infinity it's like a circle, circle, like an infinity symbol, or, you know, figure eight. That's all Akito is. It's just this, all this continuous, circular motion, condensed, concentrated. All right, so how is this related to the Zen do and our practice in sesshin? It's that concentration of mindfulness. The more we concentrate and build that concentration, that energy in the Zen Doh, the easier it gets to really work that mindfulness muscle when we're not on the mat, when we're going for lunch, when we're going to rest. Really, they're not, they're not exclusive. It's just just a mindfulness. We we develop this mindfulness and more we can put more energy into it because of all the concentration that we put into the Zen. Do, yeah, there. I don't want to say they're not two, but the more we can put our effort and energy into our walking zazen, going to the meals, resting,

Speaker 1

46:54

that will strengthen our concentration in Zen doh and vice versa. All right, so my time is up, but I do know we have time for questions.

Speaker 1

47:17

Really, his talk was about going back to basics, so it's kind of like, in a way, it's preaching the choir. But I do feel like it's helpful to again, you know this bante, I'm not quite clear on this mental mindfulness practice, this mechanics of it for our own purposes as practitioners, really, for the third time, I'll just say the mindfulness is when we notice we're lost in thought, then we bring it right back.

Speaker 2

47:51

Yeah, say a few words about finding a balance between you mentioned the problems that can come if you see deficits in yourself and start beating yourself up over them on the one hand, but on the other hand, obviously, sometimes you see people who behave in unfortunate ways and make no effort to do anything about them. And well, that's just how I am. And you want to say something maybe,

Speaker 1

48:27

about a balance between those things, yeah, the person who just says that's, I mean, we just have all these notions, these ideas of how we really are, who we are as a person, and that's just the way I am. I mean, it's kind of like a passive thing going on there. That's just the way I am. I can't No. I mean, eventually, if, if one perseveres with practice, they start to see I mean, I guess it just all comes down to another example. I just remember I was like, flummoxed. I just shown up here at the center, and I was actually, I even remember what happened. I had this insight about myself just coming into the back door there five AP, and I just all of a sudden, I was like, I'm so full of myself. Jesus Christ. I'm so full of myself. And so, you know, I was all eager to tell this to it was Sangha, Sangha sensei at the time. Maybe it was during the sesshin, but I went to Sierra doksan, and I told her that, and it just kind of went through her, you know, she just kind of not even shrugged. She just kind of acknowledged, not even acknowledged. But, yeah, yeah, right, good. You know, you see that, you know. So it's, it's, it's by seeing, it's that insight of seeing ourselves, all of our flaws and, yeah, it just, it's really, is seeing that, you know, the more you concentrate, the more. Things arise in the mind, and then you just start to see all the different and but it's not fixed. None of this is fixed. We are not like that. Ultimately, that's what true nature, our true nature reveals, like everything is whole and complete. We are perfect, just as we are. So I say don't beat up on yourself, you know. Just keep returning in practice. You know, beat up on ourselves just does not help. But, you know, some people have really rigid, stuck notions of themselves, especially if you're not practicing, I'm that's just the way I am. But you know that it's just really, it's a tenderizing process of seeing so, you know, the person who's practicing says, well, that's just why, why I am as time goes on and as they deepen their practice, then they start to see, well, no, I'm not really like that. I thought I was like that, but I'm not really, you know, you see into the just more. And I'm not talking about awakening here, but as time goes on, you just kind of do get lighter and see the emptiness of everything, especially what's going through the mind. And the Insight is the key. Once you see a certainly, certain kind of, I guess we'll use the word, I can't even think of it right now. Defilements, you see that then, then, alright, you have that insight. Just get back to the practice, and it just kind of doesn't and then, you know, and then after a while, it just doesn't have a life of it anymore, and you've completely dropped it. And you're not, you're say, let's say you're kind of just, you're struggling with laziness. You tend to be a lazy person. And you, you see that. And then as time goes on, you just, there's less and less of that. Yes, doing you talk.

Speaker 3

52:02

Go. Clarified for me something that plagued my early years and even my middle years of zazen was a hyper focus on pain. It it you're, you're mentioning of avoiding the trees as you ski down the mountain. You know, I developed this, this notion of skiing into the tree, you know, because of a hyper focus on what you're trying to miss. You focus right on your skis, right into the tree. And I realized that all those years of struggling with pain was caused by a hyper focus on pain.

Speaker 1

52:56

Yeah, that's the grasping, the grasping on our pain. And, you know, obviously, if we're depends on the pain, like, if we're talking about, like a sharp, sharp, stabbing pain, and then we got to get out of that posture. I don't think, I suspect that was not emphasized enough in the early years. Maybe, I'm not sure I wasn't here, but, you know, you got to get out of that posture, because there's, there might be some physical damage, but, yeah, pain is, pain is a great tool for for our practice. It really does sharpen the mind in doses. You know, I think that's one of the reasons why, I mean, I know, I That's why I got so anxious about sesshin. Is just the pain, you know that things, that things arise, that are really painful psychologically, let's just stick with the physical pain. Yeah, you're not trying to grit your there's that, that word that bante used gun Ratna about gritting your teeth. It's not, yeah, if you're gritting your teeth with the physical pain, then yeah, it just that really is about relaxing the body and just yeah, just putting your your attention on, on the practice, and eventually the pain subsides. But yeah, sometimes it feels like we're masochistic with, like, gritting our teeth and trying to bear through the pain. But it's, again, it's that forcing, you know, we don't it's not forcing just, it's relaxing into the pain. We're always going to have some pain with our sitting. It's just and, but, yeah, I Christopher,

Speaker 4

54:45

it's not a question. I have a really short antidote,

Unknown Speaker

54:48

yeah, please do.

Speaker 4

54:51

This was a long time ago, like five or six years. I had to give, like, a short presentation. Information to the board about what was going on with the youth program. And it was, it took place in Roshi office, so I was super nervous. Went in there, talked to the board. It took like five minutes, and when I left that room, you were like, walking by right outside, and you were like, Hey, what's up? And I said, Oh, I just had to give this presentation to the board. I was super nervous, and I might have, like, still visibly been nervous to you. And you said to me, are you nervous right now? And I was like, Well, I guess not. And you clapped me on the shoulder, and then you walked away. And it was, you know, a really beautiful moment of teaching for me, related to Roshi becoming angry in one moment and fine in the next. I

Unknown Speaker

56:03

anything online?

Unknown Speaker

56:16

Yeah, it's 1034 right? I should wrap it up. I was trying to really be mindful of the time.

Speaker 1

56:26

All right. So yeah, Ben, you can turn it off. We'll stop now and recite the four vows i.

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