Yeah, boy, I wish there was a number right? Like you bend for you 20 times and you're good to go. I mean, there's no there's no criteria like that. What the tradition says Padmasambhava for instance. Mitsuda who doesn't from India to Tibet, and others have said, if you can maintain lucidity seven times, you're gonna be good in the Bardo. Well, is this a real number? Or is an archetypal number you have to Rinpoche and l Wallace and the translation of the teachings where I first read this say, this is an archetypal number. Don't take it visually. What it means is some level of constancy. What does that mean? ACC? I don't know. I just think it means some level of regularity. But here's the really good news here, Jim. This is real. It's also good news, bad news. But the good news for us is whatever takes place in the Bardo, according to a number of Tantras teachings. And again, this number is also archetypal is seven to nine times more efficacious, more transformative than it is in this in his waking life. And what that means, therefore, is you don't need to have a glimpse before it can transform into a gaze in the Bardo. In other words, things can be very powerfully positively amplified. And this makes a lot of sense to me because you're no longer restricted the finitude of the body that limits awareness that limits the infinite mind that's being released. And so the light of awareness itself becomes much more heightened. And so this is actually really, really good news for all spiritual practitioners, for people who do these practices that you do not have to be a raging virtuoso to have tremendous success in the Bardot's. You just have to have some level of potency and faith in this doctrine. So how frequently I don't know. I mean, really, nobody can answer that question. Just some level of constancy. What does that mean? Wow. Presume is my favorite answer by the way? My favorite answer I love it. What Daffy John calls divine a grunts I just feel it makes me feel so why can free? I don't know. Know, the open question. This is a lovely thing to say. Sometimes that's the best answer, by the way. Okay, back to you. Presumably the more frequent the lucid dreams, the better true, but is there a level of frequency nothing I'm aware of that produces a reasonable likelihood that you realize you're dead in the bottle. There is no number outside of the seven but that's an accurate number relatedly if you've been frequently having lucid dreams for a few years Prem perhaps because of the illness. That that parenthetical interjection makes no sense to me, so I'll skip it. If you have been frequently having lucid news through yours, but you weren't lucid for a significant period before your death. Does that make it less likely that you will realize you're in the bar to becoming No Not necessarily? Not necessarily. You know, the the whole dream Bardo business? Because it's a much more open dimension that isn't constricted and dictated by the laws of logic or rationality and physics and space and time. That's why there's so many weird things that can happen in the dream state and in the Bardo, which is just a dream at the end of time. These domains of mind don't play by the same rules as waking reality. And so we have we bring and impose imposes the highlight our limitations and say, oh, you know, there has to be this way in the Baroda because it's this way in the daytime state. No, no, the Bardot's and the dreams are much more open. And so possibilities are heightened. There are actually more empty dimensions of reality and the empty are more open. They are, the more possibilities there are. So we cannot bring the same metrics and criteria that we use for success or lack thereof in the waking state to the dream or to the Birdland dimension doesn't play by the same rules. That's one reason why people get frustrated with it. Ah, you know, when it doesn't do it like this, and why does it why does it just completely disappear for whatever isn't supposed to be like in this linear vector? No, no. I mean, you're basically romancing your mind. You're romancing dimensions of reality, that just don't play by the Aristotelian worldview. So somewhere on there bad maybe that's of some benefit. Okay, last one from Eric. Good, bud. Eric. And then we'll open it up. Hey, Andrew, been meaning to say thanks for the talk you gave? Yeah. I Charlie Morley, my dear friend. He asked me to do a riff a couple of weeks ago. He's doing a really cool training. So I came in and subbed for a guy and we had fun. I was hoping you might be able to answer a question for today. Kay, how would you or someone who is able to maintain awareness throughout all the stages of sleep describe the phenomenological experience of light sleep? Yeah, non REM sleep stage two. Okay. I can align and experience with hypnagogia Yes, Nan RAM one. Okay, fair enough. ran in deep sleep paren and would be curious to hear your thoughts on each of those as well. Oh, you're asking a lot here but I'm having a hard time putting my finger on what the experience of light sleep would be. Okay. Well, I mean, again, I can only tell you what, what it's like for me, right. And I've never done a phenomenological report in the dream lab when I've got a high density EEG cap that says okay, you've now gone from beta to alpha to theta, delta, right? I've never been able to have that opportunity. So I can't tell you with complete authority that when I'm in what I think is light sleep, I'm actually in non REM two or whatever. So a little bit shooting from the hip here. But basically, you know, one of the things that constitutes light sleep for me is part of my my dream, my dream, my dream. My dream brain. Part of my brain is awake. Part of my brain is asleep. This is one of the things we talked about with Dr. Edie. That's actually quite important. It's not this big isomorphic unit that when you fall asleep you wake or whatever it's like a whole blocks like a block universes block consciousness Do you stage No, no, no. With increased measurements, neuroscientists are discovering what the wisdom traditions have actually been saying for 1000s of years that there are absolute granularities and gradations that part of your brain can be awake. Part of your brain can be asleep. And in the non dual Siva tantric tradition, I stumbled across it, I didn't stumble across it. A friend of mine scholar sent me this text, and I loved it, and I shared it with a bunch of neuroscientists and they go sit down. This is amazing. This is great. So what they have, they take the three main states of consciousness waking, dreaming, and dreamless sleep and they do the following. They do the waking, of waking, dreaming of waking, the sleeping of waking, the dreaming of dreaming, the waking, of dreaming, sleeping, of dreaming, the sleeping of sleeping, the dreaming of sleeping the awake of sleeping. And so what they do then as they have a more granular nine stage description, which is much more accurate and high density, EEG measurements, I'm not confirming it. So for me, that's a little bit of the science. I like to blind people with science. For me, that's a little bit of what light sleep is like for me. I'm popping in and out. Definitely sensory awareness, the outward bound capacity of the mind is is diminishing. It's not fully internalized yet because I'm still unlike sleep. And so this is where you start to have this this really interesting transformation of consciousness where you go from thought to image, the thought, image amalgamation to micro dreams to dreams. And so light sleep for me constitutes this kind of plasma of mind. In by definition, at least, in my experience, it's inarticulate, it's just kind of all over the bloody place. So I'm not sure that's totally helpful for you, Eric. Um, the best thing you could do is is is, you know, fine. Find somebody who can put you in a hot fit you with a high density, EEG, and then just play with this stuff, or ring I don't think has enough resolution. So I'm not being totally helpful with you here. But the other I'm trying to where else you could find some data here