™️ Patenting Cannabis Genetics, AI Bot for Natural Farming, and Open Sourcing, with Copyleft Cultivars and Steve Raisner

12:10PM Jan 28, 2025

Speakers:

Jordan River

Keywords:

cannabis genetics

open sourcing

copyleft cultivars

natural farming

AI chat bot

cannabis genome

patent threats

intellectual property

mass collaboration

public domain

fertilizer solutions

invasive plants

localized recipes

pest control

community protection

Greetings, growers worldwide. Jordan River here, broadcasting from the islands. Some more. Growcast right into your ears. And we are part of the cannabis galaxy. Today. We've got a brand new guest on the line. Caitlyn from copyleft cultivars joins us. Steve raisner is also here, as he is part of this amazing project. We're talking about the patenting of genetics, the open sourcing of genetics, more importantly, the cannabis genome galaxy. And also we get into some really cool AI natural farming talks. So a lot in this episode, it's very, very exciting and cutting edge stuff. I know you're gonna love it, but before we jump into it, shout out to AC infinity. That's right, they make the best grow gear on the market. Acinity.com, code grow cast one five saves you 10% that is the maximum discount we've had the code forever. We've been partners with AC infinity for years. And why? It's because they make the best tents you can get your hands on. They make the best inline fans, the best oscillating fans. They make really, really great quality accessories like scissors, pots, Ratchet hangers and things like that. And now they also have lights. They've got the ion board and now the ion frame bar style, really, really great stuff at AC infinity. Get the whole grow kit you've been after. You know, you can get a three by three kit, a five by five kit. You know you want another one. Just go ahead and pop over there. Use code, grow cast, one five, always at checkout for the max discount. And thank you for supporting us and AC infinity. We love them so much. They make our favorite grow gear out there. I'm looking at two AC infinity tents in my bio dome, and you won't regret grabbing one. Use code, growcast, one five at AC infinity.com. Thank you to AC infinity. Alright, let's get into it with Caleb and Steve. Thank you for listening and enjoy the show. Hello, podcast listeners. You are now listening to grow cast. I'm your host, Jordan River, and I want to thank you for tuning in again today. Right now, I am coming to you from the islands. That's right. If you hear some tropical birds chirping in the background. This is the Hawaiian outdoor studio. We are now broadcasting from the islands, and we have some really, really cool content lined up. As always, I urge you, in the beginning of these episodes to share this show. Turn someone on to growing, turn a grow around to grow cast. It's how you can help us the most. And check out growcast podcast.com for all this stuff, the seeds, the membership, upcoming events, it's all there. So today, for our first show out here on the islands, we have an old friend joining us as well as a brand new guest. Not only do we have potent ponics on the line, Steve is here. What's going on? Steve, Hey, how's it going? Good, man. Good. Thank you for being on the show. Appreciate you, and also appreciate you bringing along your friend today from copyleft cultivars. We have Caleb on the line. What's up? Caleb,

hey, hey, excited to be here. It's an honor. Yes, sir, thank

you for coming on the show. Steve told me about what you're doing. We're very, very excited to talk about this stuff. You're working with the natural farming AI chat bot. You're working with the mapping of the cannabis genome, your Galaxy project, all of this with copyleft cultivars. So I'd like to start from the beginning, talk to me about what brought you into the world of cannabis and how you got started with copyleft cultivars. Yeah,

happy to so my relationship with cannabis and medicinal plants in general goes back both to my own exploration on younger years and then also to treat chronic diseases. I suffered from Crohn's disease for since my teenage years, and ADHD and I've found that medicinal plants such as cannabis can be really powerful allies in that I also had that naturally flow into growing various plants, including cannabis, and that became a love in and of itself too. So it's become this beautiful passion from multiple sides, and this synergy together, nice.

That's wonderful. And what about copyleft? First of all, I like the name. It's not copyright. It's copyleft. When did this project first spawn? Yeah,

I'm glad you caught the little pun there and that I can't take credit for the term copy left. That's actually an older term in open source and so we connected that, you know, with cultivars represent this mission in the plant domain. I came up in a technology family, so I'm a fifth generation inventor by trade. That was one of the things I've done in the past with some green energy technology. So I grew up around a lot of both patenting and open source work in computer systems and computer technology, and then that just, you know, being around that with my family has become a little bit second nature in the. Green Energy domain, we patented a pretty big breakthrough that resulted in this big hostile takeover lawsuit battle and some really firsthand, gritty experience with how the core systems and financial asymmetry can really impact the intellectual property system. So that's kind of my opening into open source, and my commitment there really came from both seeing it firsthand growing up and then seeing it firsthand in that Green energy project as well. Well, you

know, it bleeds into the cannabis space rather quickly and rather scarily right, like we've we've heard about this before. You take a look at what's happened to other crops, for instance, and the intellectual property thereof. I'd like to first talk about this galaxy project where you're mapping the cannabis genome. And I'd like to come out and be completely upfront with you, Caleb, and be direct and say, I think that the cannabis community has a little bit of a bad taste in their mouth because of a company that did the same thing called Philos. I'm sure you hear this all the time. Could you talk about what you're doing with your cannabis genome galaxy? Could you talk about how you're different than philos and what went wrong there? If you think that was a real bad blow that they dealt by being irresponsible? I certainly do. Yeah, certainly

so. You know, I was into breeding cannabis on an amateur level when the phylus incidents happened, and I really like to work on replacements rather than than going in and trashing other groups as much as you know, I have my own feelings about the philos incidents and, you know, the mismanagement there, I'll say it of genetic information and Community Trust. We're really working on creating a replacement system to other ways that this has been handled both with the patent system, with groups like Philos. There's, you know, countless examples, but really, these conventional ways of using intellectual property is not a good fit for the modern community, right? Whether that's or whether that's just the emergence of mass collaboration with the internet and with the emergence of cannabis into the legal system, the way that it's emerging instead this collaborative approach, I think, is the really inspiring next step. And if we can manage that in a way where it's guaranteed sharing and not sharing in a way where it's free of charge, right? Still allowing there to be a market economy, but free in terms of freedom, and guaranteeing that freedom, and then having these community collaborations, we can kind of overcome some of those conventional hurdles. So we're using copyleft is actually in the name, and it's a legal wrapper, so to speak, a licensing that allows kind of the flip of copyright into copyleft, where it's guaranteed within there that you cannot lock down and privatize the genetics or Those cultivars or their progenies of any seeds or future plants made down the genetic line from that, and that means that even the nonprofit, or US members of the nonprofit for an all right now and all volunteer group, been very open to collaboration, none of us could take advantage of that and privatize it, even if we wanted to, so down the line that assures that fiasco is like what we saw with philos, are really actively prevented. And then also open publishing is the next step. With that, that kind of double assurance, and people can go on to the copyleft website right now and actually download the copyleft Bag Tag. Do you want to talk about that and mention how people can kind of get involved right away, at least on that level. Yeah, the freedom bag tag is our bag tag. That's just a couple of sentences. And by Bag Tag, what I mean is a sticker you can just slap on to the seed bag, as long as it's a sealed seed bag with that visible on the outside, it should be generally legal and kind of a licensing terms of use, and that just assures the next people very explicitly that they have freedom of use with those seeds. They can do whatever they want with them, as long as they don't privatize them and lock them down in any way, and as long as they put this label onto future bags of those same seeds, reproduced or split up, broadly called the progeny, and then they also, in that conditions, would send back any genetic testing information. And to be published on our website, and that's specifically within the terms for it to become published openly. So when we receive that, we just will post it up and make that available. And that seed bag tag is really the first of its kind. It's an open collaboration. We had about 600 over 600 members in our Discord openly collaborating on, you know, how the size to make it and how specifically to make those terms. And we settled on on this really nice, small little tag that can be slapped on and is now available on copyleftculturist.com you can just be it over, use it as you want, and we're working to get some stickers available also that you can purchase to support our cause as a way of donating as well. That's great

if anyone wants to understand more on the philos thing I did about 12 hours of content over on growing with fishes, including interviews with with a lot of the people that worked at various companies that were involved, including some of the lawyers and a whole bunch of other stuff. So definitely check that out. If you look to learn more about that particular problem,

definitely check out that 12 hour Philo saga over on Steve's channel. That's That's great, man, and I love this idea of of open sourcing these genetics, because I don't think there's another way for us to survive as a community, if we let you know the forces who want to restrict these genetics have their way. I think that the only answer is to respond with open sourcing, because there's a lot of there's a lot of threat when it comes to patenting things like cannabis genetics, right? Like, why is it important to execute the mission that you're talking about and to lay out these terms and conditions? What happens if we don't what does that threat look like in a real life scenario to us home growers, if people start patenting these, like you said, you know, these patent trolls that exist in all these other communities, if they start coming into the cannabis community, what does that look

like? So unfortunately, it's not a matter of if. It's a matter of when, and we see this in all emerging industries. It's really the result of the way that intellectual property systems and courts are structured in most of the world, including the United States. And it's really important to understand this and take action on it early, because we see in the corn industry, just as an example, how once these big biotech corporations can come in, rolling hammer and smashing and grabbing from all these different mom and pop operations, it's very hard to undo that damage, and we're already seeing a lot of this damage occurring in the legal systems, where licensing mismanagement and other sorts of things are creating conglomeration and consolidation. And unfortunately, if we don't protect the commons, we don't create systems that create this community, roll out these protections. And I encourage other groups as well to really be working on these. There's some other groups that are emerging in this space, and I love to see that. And really, if we can roll out all these different protections and make a robust ecosystem approach, we can prevent a lot of this harm. It's, like I said, very hard to roll back and undo. And I just wanted to cite a few statistics that really make it viscerally understandable for growers, for small scale farmers, and these are from the technology space, where we have a lot more history of emergent technologies, but Follow along the same systems. So there's more than 10,000 companies that have been sued at least once by patent troll. And patent trolls file 84% of high tech patent lawsuits a year. Patent trolls are groups that have no real claim to the intellectual property, and they bring lawyers and money to smash and grab and take from these groups. What that looks like is receiving a lawsuit, receiving these hostile takeover attacks through legal maneuvers, and then having to fight these made up claims. There's a great example, seeding fear, a documentary that Neil Young actually sponsored. It's widely available on YouTube that shows this happening to some families with corn, and then, through that process of the legal attack on a business, they can be forced into bankruptcy. And actually the. Patents or any sort of intellectual property is just packaged up and made available and bought wholesale by these groups that rate them or they'll take them in the in the intellectual property court battle. So

they're extorting these people too, right? It's usually like, is it something like, Hey, you can just settle this by paying us money, or fight us in court until we bankrupt you. Yeah, essentially, so it's extortion. What you're saying is it's extortion.

Yeah, extortion to the average cost of $2.8 million to defend and patent litigation. According to the American middle

and 84% of all patent patent lawsuits

are these trolls? Yeah, absolutely, according to Tech Crunch, that is wild.

That's wild. You know, this came across my radar not too long ago in podcasting. There was a, one of the first people to podcast was a, he's a comedian, Adam Carolla. You might remember him from, like, old shows and stuff in the 90s. He went and did podcasting real, real early on, and they got sued by patent trolls saying, Hey, we own the digital rights to distribution of audio media, some bull crap, just like you're saying. And it was exactly like you're saying, it's an extortion attempt, and he crowdfunded and got the money and sued them and won in court. But not everybody can do that. So you're saying that if, if these patent trolls get wind of how easy it is to to do these smash and grab extortion style lawsuits, they're going to start coming after growers who are growing a certain cultivar and be like, Hey, that's my cultivar, or we have a patent that's too similar, and sue them. That's

what's going to happen. So as different technologies emerge, just like cannabis is emerging into the legal space, the federal courts start to take jurisdiction, and this is just the natural process where these patent trolls come in, and once the courts are open to them, they start to find these ways to extract value forcibly from the system, because it's a

new burgeoning market, and there's still confusion over it, and the patents are up in the air, so they take advantage of that and Sue as many people as they can. Yeah,

absolutely. This actually started around 2001 there was a pioneer, hybrid, international, V gem ag supply lawsuit that went all the way up into the higher tiers of court systems and established that, specifically, plants are patentable, and established several different rights pathways, and these are now regularly used, and famously by Monsanto, regularly used to smash and grab smaller operations by patent troll operators or big corporate conglomerates, jeez.

And then historically, like you said, they're going after like corn and soybean growers and stuff. But, I mean, this is a cash crop, they're 100% gonna turn their attention towards us,

right? Yeah, I think it's an inevitability. And we already see a lot of positioning by these bigger ag corporations, different Intellectual Property Groups, to get involved. We also already see a huge movement towards convincing growers, at high marketing expense, to start to patent these things. And I see this from my own experience in the green energy world, as really packaging these up as, quote, assets to be smashing. Yeah,

I see, I see what you're saying. It's funny. You bring up Monsanto specifically, I'm out here on Molokai. That's the one of the less populated Hawaiian Islands, and this is where they have a an agricultural research facility, probably on a small island, just in case something goes terribly wrong. That's just my guess. But, you know, I've heard locals here, like our friend Kevin, who's been on the show before, talking about, yeah, they're gonna, they're gonna patent beneficial bacteria. Next, they're going to patent cannabis pollen, and so when, when their pollen or their bacteria makes its way onto your property, you're going to be liable to be sued. Is that like a? Is that a? I know that happens in other industries. Think that's a real thing that could happen. Well, it

certainly has happened with corn again, and I think that it's just a matter of how much value there is there and how much competition they're facing, whether it fits into these big corporations consolidation strategies. A lot of these strategies are taught at the big Ivy League schools like Harvard, and so it's not controversial that these will be implemented as soon as big business is involved and big federal level investment is involved in the industry. I don't

want to bum myself out by asking this question and getting, not getting the answer I want. But like, I just, I don't like this idea of, like you said, the normalization this. It's already standard of this, this patented, patenting of plants. Man, like, when we take a look at cannabis, and you think about all the people who bred it. Over the hundreds and maybe even, like, 1000s of years of people's hands, and then you do the last cross, so now it's yours. So my question to you is, is this something that we could reverse on a large scale, like, how can we get out there and vote against this sort of thing, or make our voices heard, and maybe, you know, denormalize the patenting of living

plant creatures. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. So I think there's really a three prong approach here to this. As far as I've thought out we have the direct retooling and re creation of the intellectual property system as a whole. This is a huge goal, but there's a lot of different groups working on it. Our general counsel, Chris burns, who's been a great help. He from Calex law. He's been a part of those movements as well. And it's just been impressive to see the amount of people that are working right now on reworking What are, frankly, colonial intellectual property laws and were put in place, you know, as part of a power structure that really dates back to 1400s Venice and the war machine. And so retooling intellectual property as a whole, is a great goal, and I think people should be engaged in that. The second prong of that approach is what we're looking at is really using the intellectual property system that is existent and creating ways to bring people together in mass collaboration. And then I think the third one is what the cannabis industry has done for a long time, which is really just sharing openly public domain and strengthening the public domain and making the flow of progress faster than any small group can keep up with because when we work together on an international scale, a national scale, even a small scale, when we have many people working together and we're openly sharing we can accelerate progress at amazing levels. We've seen this in the development of modern cannabis strains. We've seen this with corn, how corn originally came from a grass called Tia sente, and the indigenous cultures in Mesoamerica, through open sharing and open collaborative breeding, created the corn that we know as corn. And I think there's countless examples of how we can outpace competition through open collaboration. So we're really hoping to bring those together, but really the center one being this, re working within the intellectual property system to create mass collaboration. That's where our galaxy system comes in, and these tools that we're going to start rolling out next year to really allow people all over to collaborate together to build new understandings, genetic understandings being key there, as well as creating a robust ecosystem of mutual defense and accelerated collaborative

progress. That's great dude. That's really well said. I love that. I

wanted to add a fourth way, people can support the movement as well. If you're in Europe, Canada, Israel, Turkey, United States, you can also vote for the Pirate Party, which and Brazil as well, also has a pirate party, which is an active political party that kind of is for open sourcing of all most patents, if not all patents, the founders of the original founders of the Pirate Bay and a bunch of other awesome things. So originally founded in Sweden. So there's another way too, that you can vote with your actual vote to help support these types of causes. Well,

that's really interesting. You know, the first thing you said, and also what you just said there, Steve, which is, like, this is a battle that is bigger than cannabis. Like it is obviously a huge thing in the agricultural sector, but like Caleb said, it's affecting a bunch of different stuff. It's affecting, like I said, podcasting and like any of these new burgeoning markets. So I'm glad that there's hope because there's so many other industries threatened. It isn't just little old cannabis getting picked on. This is, like, a major problem. So that that's good, that there's hope, because it's, you know, it's, it's a problem that a lot of people see, is what I'm saying. You have

that podcast registry that Canada wants to do now UK wants to do too, which is completely crazy, which I don't know if you've talked about on your show, but that's another level of things, where they're trying to clamp down on your ability to disseminate information, which is just crazy.

So that's good. That first prong gives me hope. The second thing you said is so great, which is like creating a mass collaboration. This is largely thanks to technology, right? Like the use of the internet, the use of the galaxy that you're putting together, mass collaboration will always outpace the rusty Gears of. Bureaucracy, right? I do believe that to be true. So when you say that, it's like the people with passion need to get together and collaborate map out this genome. And so when people come to do these fraudulent lawsuits, the idea is that we're already there saying, hey, no, this is this cultivar we know because of the genome, and it's already been protected based on, you know, the sticker on the bag, or whatever rights that the breeder has has produced, this one's already you can't troll over this one. This one's already accounted for. That's the idea, right?

Yeah, absolutely. And then also being able to support, like you mentioned crowdfunding earlier, and I think that's a way also that this could work to create mutual defense. And so these groups would look around for easy smash and grab opportunities. Look at our robust community and say, yeah, it looks like they have it all really well documented. They have these legal protections in place, and they have a huge community that's ready to defend each other. That's, you know, not a great target, it's a minimal defense against these, these strategies, and we have to be realistic about the types of defenses we need for this collaboration structure public domain is awesome, and it's what's gotten us to this point. But now we face new realities, and so creating new tools to face those realities, and our mission being to protect and preserve vulnerable plants using copy left. We see this as interconnected, like you said, to this larger ecosystem of liberative practice, of this struggle together, of many different industries, many different small groups all over the world. Cannabis is just a really prime example in a very critical time period right now. And so this is a place that we're focusing it's also near and dear to my own part. So the time is now for the cannabis world and ecosystem to come together and protect ourselves in our open collaboration. That

is so cool, man. And it's, it is exactly true what you said, which is, until they get these trademark and copyright laws fixed, you just don't want to be the easiest target, right? As long as you're not the easiest target, as long as, like you said, when they come to do their extortion, they go, Well, it looks like they've got, you know, they've got some defenses. They might have with us, they'll move on to the next target until they get the laws fixed.

So very good point. We just flew

through like, a half hour of of talking about copyrights that that was awesome. This is something that is like, like you said, it's near and dear to my heart, and it's, it's big on my list of fears for this community. I think it's one of the few things that could, like, really threaten home grow, which is our biggest thing here at growcast, we support and educate growers of all kinds and sizes, but we really try to push for home grow. And the last thing I want to see is lawyers getting involved in my home grow. It's the last thing I want to see. Or my listeners home grow. Rooted leaf nutrients, everyone my number one recommended nutrients. You can find them@rootedleaf.com code, grow cast, for 20% off the nutrients that you don't need to adjust the pH on. That's right. Rooted leaf nutrients got exactly what your plant needs. It's earth friendly, it's worm friendly, it's microbe friendly. In fact, it's loaded with both microbiology and a ton of carbon to feed all that fungi in your medium, their new lush green that's their nitrogen supplement. And more. It's got so much more carbon in it that it's actually a heavier bottle. That's right. They added even more carbon into their line. These are carbon based nutrients that pH themselves. Basically, you'll never need to adjust again. To start with filtered water, mix rooted leaf nutrients and go. Doesn't matter what soil you're using. Doesn't matter if you're already in an established, living soil. Won't hurt your worms. Won't hurt your biology. Rootedleaf.com code growcast, you've heard Nick talk at length about how he's formulated this line due to his specific standards for cannabis, and it is loaded with carbon. So you don't want to miss out. Rootedleaf.com code growcast for 20% off all the time. Stay tuned. We got some more stuff coming with Nick specifically around the pH side. I know you're gonna love it. Support us. Support rootedleaf. Rootedleaf.com code growcast for 20% off. Thank you to rooted leaf nutrients. I want to talk to you guys about this natural farming chat bot. You've been busy. You're not just working on the galaxy. You've got this really cool this really cool natural farming tool. But before that, while we're on the subject of copyleft, where can people find you and go follow you right now, if they're interested in what you just said and your mission?

Yeah. So we welcome collaboration comment, anyone who wants to jump in and get involved at whatever level that you want to get involved. We're reachable at copyleft cultivars.com copyleft cultivars@gmail.com for the email. We have two Instagrams. We have copyleft cultivars for the larger organization, and then we have at copyleft cannabis for the specific copyleft. Cannabis project. And then you could also follow me on Instagram, Soul shine growing. Sol shine growing, and feel free to reach out on any of those platforms. We have a discord, and the discord link can be found through the Instagram or, you know, email us or at copyleft cultivars@gmail.com, and we have a big open collaboration community there that's starting to bubble up. And if you

want to support the group too, you can also check us out over on Patreon at copyleft cultivars nonprofit. If you want early access to all some of our tools, we have offer early access to our various, uh, we'll first be offering the AI, and then also give early access to the galaxy before launch as well. Uh, kind of like early beta access. And then as those evolve as well, you kind of get new features before everyone else does what we're beta testing. Once we're, you know, happy with it, well, we kind of release it to that smaller pool before everyone else that supports us and helps us, you know, pay the bills, because it's not, it's not free, and it's a couple of us that are helping us keep this moving right now, on the board of copyleft, and happy to support them and and, yeah, so we're hoping to get to a couple of our goals so we can start adding some cool new features to some of the different things that we're working on, and really expand our efforts towards some, some other really cool tools that I think you guys are going to enjoy, that robots talk about.

Yeah, well, we have a lot of natural farmers who listen to the show, right? Like I said, we support growers of all types. I try to mix up the content. There's a lot in the world of soil, obviously. So there's a lot of like, soil content. But I do hear from the natural farmers. You know the real you know KNF guys, the Jadam guys. They do tune into the show. I appreciate you. I appreciate all you. But these natural farming listeners are going to be especially interested in this new technology that Steve has been talking about. I've toyed around with it myself. It is very cool, like, it's definitely a fun program to chat around with. Basically this, tell me, if I'm, you know, mischaracterizing this Caleb, but basically this is like, chat, G, P, T, meets Korea, natural farming, right? Like you're taught, you're chatting in with this bot, and he's spitting out basically whatever you need. As far as, like, use these inputs for these problems. Here's the ratios, here's how to make them. How would you describe this natural farming? Ai chat bot to a first timer?

So there's a lot of different opportunities with making fertilizers all around the world. The implementation of natural farming for sure, a several other different indigenous, rooted farming technologies. They have implementation methods, ways of making fertilizers that end up being localized, using a lot of localized microbes, in many cases, and at the very least using the plants that are around us. And this presents opportunities for growers of all sorts, home growing, I've had some great success with that, and small farmers around the world, as well as in marginalized communities around the world, where fertilizers are a huge financial issue and again, threaten these vulnerable communities, and the liberation from the fertilizer cycle into being able to make your own fertilizer is a really promising angle to support the farming community. So we've been working on creating an AI chat bot that takes a large amount of different information, such as from the open nutrient project, which I was a part of previously, and Steve has been a big part of. We also have other natural farming information, and we've assembled this as a sort of library of reference where we have an AI model which is able to think through response to a prompt. So when the user says that they live in a certain area and they're working with certain plants, then that AI actually goes to the library, like a library reference desk of sorts, and is able to assemble specific, localized recipes that fit the nutritional needs of those plants and instruct them in building those and help them refine their methods in an educational manner. So we're really democratizing access to this information, and that's why natural farming has been our focus, as well as my own love of natural farming, I think that it's a great way to democratize access to growing in general and fertilizer specifically.

Yeah, man. A lot of fun to play with, and that's what I picked up too, almost instantly. Was the localization seems to be the big advantage, because it's like, you can look up dilution ratios or whatever. But when I typed into this thing, hey, I'm in, I'm on Molokai, Hawaii, it was like, All right, I see what's up. You're going to deal with high humidity, right? And you're you might have this problem and you might have that problem. So what you're going to want to use are your local inputs, and it had those ready to go. So I think you're right. I think the localization and like customization is incredible with that. What else is this chat bot like capable of that that might surprise me or interest my listeners? What's

also cool is, is that, for instance, you can say, make it just from invasive plants. So say you want to help get rid of invasive plants in your area. Can formulate KNF solutions from invasive plant inputs, and then it takes into account nutrient ratios in those plants to try and make a balanced nutrient solution. So if you tell it you have tomatoes and peppers, it's going to use those to make a, you know, flowering, fruiting crop type thing, if you have the lettuce and spinach and other types of greens, it's going to make something that leans more towards the nitrogen heavy feed. So it does all of that math and thinking, because it has these huge reference tables of plant nutrients and things like that from the project that I put together for nutrient project, and we had some other awesome people that help collaborate on that as well, and kind of take those kinds of ideas to make the wonderful things that people have learned free, natural farming, but then help refine that even more by better fine tuning the nutrient solutions, not only to your local location, but also to the nutrient means. So you can say, hey, I want to boost the yield on that a little bit more. I want to increase the potassium, silicon, manganese. You can tell it to do that, and then it'll it'll adjust your fpjs or whatever else, to try to lean towards plants that contain a little bit more of those nutrients in it, so that you can kind of work that organically, the same way that would with your nutrient salts. It also does a bunch of other cool stuff too. It does pest control stuff, which is another round that we have, we've kind of done the first pass on it. We're going to be adding more and more data to that as well. But it already gives you, you know, mechanical solutions, bio controls, beneficial insects, Jadam solutions, green natural farming solutions, and a couple of other natural solutions to any type of insect or pest or mold problem right off the bat. So you can kind of choose what works good for your particular farm. The idea is so much to be like this is the only way with this thing. The idea is to kind of give you a toolbox and say, Okay, well, here's three options. You know, your garden best. You know, pick what's your you know, going to work best for you? You and your solution, because at the end of the day, the day, the gardener knows the best. And you can also sell, hey, I don't have access to that input. I know it's available around here. It's out of season right now, and it'll swap it out, right? That's the other cool thing. You know, maybe you have normally have access to certain inputs that you're used to, and you want to try to swap out stuff that's maybe more sustainable or sustainable different time of year. This can kind of quickly give you replacements for those that are in a similar nutrient range, and kind of stuff that you normally couldn't. It's not taught on traditional types of KNF and natural farming teachings because they don't have access to these huge data banks that we've built and other, you know, tools that we build into this that can kind of understand all that. It's really cool. It also can teach people in other languages too, which is really neat. You know, when I was in Africa and Thailand and things like that, they don't have access to this kind of stuff that we do. They don't have podcasts that they can listen to all day, like like we do on the west to have all these wonderful teachers and awesome podcast hosts like yourself that get that information out. So this helps us as well, get that information out to other people that you know need that in a different language. That's killer

man. That is so cool. So first of all, that is something that I didn't give the chat bot that you're saying can play a huge role, which is, like, you tell it what you're growing, you tell it where you are, what you're growing, and maybe even the goals you want to accomplish. I'll take that, all that into consideration. That's really cool. And the IPM thing is really cool too. Tell me this, is this in the works at all? Or is this a possible future? I'm sure you've thought of this, obviously uploading a picture. Would this AI maybe one day be able to analyze an image? Or no,

so we're working on multi modality, and actually that's being able to think quote, quote as the computer with multiple modes of sensory interaction, so the words and the meaning of the words and the meaning of the picture, and being able to mesh those understandings. That's an emergent field and phenomena in AI that's really just come about in the last six months or so in a realizable way, and we're working towards integrating that. That would be so cool right now. This is the proof of concept model, and I want to talk a little bit about where we're at and how people can get involved in this stage. Sure, we have a Patreon where. If you go to Patreon and find us as copyleft cultivars nonprofit, we have two different tiers that both give you access, one that's just a little bit higher support for us, and one that's a little bit more sliding scale for people to still get access to this beta test model, and that helps us develop it. Those costs go to maintaining the compute capacity that we need for this, as well as building on tools such as multi modality, where it could work on pictures, and then expanding to be able to have it speak to us. So I'm going to give you some examples where it actually will speak, but this is really pre beta, and we're working towards putting those into the system right now. Short

Introduction, Greetings, samulakay, Hawaii, meron Kang na tatang in NASA men talahin ang, kapang yarihan ng manga, local Na, bio accumulators,

so a little sneak peek on text to speech operation, we're going to work that in. We're going to work in the images as well, and also just really refining user interface and reliability and open access, democratized access. So those are some goals that people can help us to achieve through the Patreon funding. And that is really a direct one for one on how much we are able to get the resources in order to accelerate this progress, and then actually how much progress we can make available for everyone. Yeah, buddy,

that sounds really cool. I like that model where you get the beta access because people feel like they're, you know, like a part of the development at that point. I'm sure that there's a couple of listeners. If this sort of thing flips your cookie, go check it out. Go play around with the bot. They showed it to me. They let me play around with it. It is really cool. It is a very cool tool. So I know that you'll get a couple of couple of supporters after this one, and you're doing a really cool thing. Caleb, to be honest, this is, this is where the magic happens, man, like technology is moving so quickly, and we need to intersect technology and natural farming, right? Technology and and cannabis in general, I would love to hear from you why. What is the importance of that intersection of technology and natural farming. Why is your mission so critical and and what does that mean to integrate the modern tech world and these ancient farming practices? Think

of it this way. You know, once, once we have the next generation like you guys were just talking about with the image recognition and then also the ability to understand voice and speak back. Someone doesn't even have to be literate. You could have someone that has no ability to read a book, have a thing on their cell phone, hit a button, take a picture and then know what to do, or simply hit the button, speak in their native language and ask it. Hey, I need a farming solution. I need fertilizer. I need to get rid of these bugs. I need whatever. They don't need to know anything beyond I need help. This is what's wrong. What do I do? You know, I spent time in Zimbabwe and South Africa, and really remote parts of Africa that you know didn't have all access to a whole lot. If they had access to a phone app like this, they no longer need to buy anything from a Monsanto or a Syngenta or any of these other big companies that are really screwing the planet up. You know, that really gives us, like it gives them the empowerment to spend that income that they had on that on their kids, or their education, the personal education, or to buy land or whatever the hell is important in their life. That's more important than supplying fertilizer or pesticides, you know what I mean, so that that's where something like this can really help be game changing to a ton of people, and by having just a handful of people kind of supporting us in the back end, you know, release this for free to people around the world. That's really kind of the goal to it. I think that this fits really right in there with kind of protecting the plant genetics, to protect plant genetics and give the farmers access to the information on how to use that so that they can continue on their own, open access production, on their own, their own spaces. You know, that's all kind of fits together like a puzzle,

you're right, which is, technology solves a lot of the greatest issues when it comes to the natural farming movement, which is what accessibility getting this information? You're right, it's in a book. But how do you get this information out to the world, out to 100 and something different languages, out to people, for someone to hear it? There's no natural farming Billboard Marketing Campaign, right? So what you need is a grassroots movement through the use of modern technology to spread this information and make it more accessible than it ever could be before, without the use of things like AI and the internet, it's really cool, man.

And with this tool, they can put in, okay, I have a four foot by four foot grow better. Tomatoes, four foot by four foot grow better. Peppers. An eight by four grow better lettuce, you know, whatever list off their whole garden, and it'll give custom formulas for each different, you know, crop, and exactly how much to use for that grow bed, or that many plants, or, you know, whatever specification they give it. So they can, again, they don't have to know anything about farming. And while it might not be exactly the way that you know certain other people might think it needs to be structured. It might be slightly different. It still gives you at the end of the day something that is very, very similar to that ultimate, you know, nutrient availability at the end of the day, once you know, be it a compost or an FPJ or whatever else you know, is doing its hardest to kind of give people the best results on the nutrient side. So I'm really thinking of people just a whole new way to just get much better production on their land without having to, you know, really understand farming. You know, that's really kind of the idea is to try to help democratize

that. That's really well said. Anything you want to add Caleb on that it must be funny to you that you're putting together an AI chat bot for ancient wisdom. That's that irony has to have struck you by now, right? The beautiful irony? Yeah,

I think it is a beautiful irony, and it's the synchronicity of our time as well. Really, the synergy of old wisdom and new technology fits so well together, and when we have that tried and true understandings that have stood the ultimate test, right, the ultimate test being survival, when we when we had indigenous societies openly collaborating and building the earliest forms of all of these crops, right, that type of a model has stood the test of time and the test of survival, and we are at a time really, as a society and as a world of unprecedented difficulties and threats, and yet that time tested knowledge is so relevant to those issues. And so we, through having these new technologies, can make that wisdom applicable and democratized. And I think that's really super exciting. There's some communities such as hugging face I want to give a shout out to in the AI realm that have already been working on democratizing access. And which we're able to build kind of on the backs of there's a lot of different emerging groups. And also, just as someone who loves to grow plants, a small scale farmer, myself home grower, I see like the wisdom of nature, the interconnectedness of the natural cycles and ecosystems as an emergent intelligence that looks in terms of its thinking structure, a lot like the internals of these AI systems that have been emerging, these machine learning systems, like famously, chatgpt, but really so many that have been emerging in this last couple of years. And that similarity between ancient wisdom and new technology, that similarity between natural ecosystem thinking and artificial intelligence thinking, I think it speaks to the nature of consciousness, the nature of intelligence itself, and when we can synergize all these pieces. You know, this goes back to this bit on open collaboration, right? We're collaborating all these different knowledge systems to create a really beautiful outcome.

That's amazing, man, it's really cool work that you're doing. Honestly, it's, I like to highlight people in these industry who are doing something different. And you guys certainly qualify when it comes to this project. So this, this was an awesome interview. I'm glad that we could talk about these things that don't get brought up on the show a whole lot. You know, we usually stick to strictly cultivation science. Sometimes we step out a little bit. And this episode was an incredible exploration the patenting stuff. It's important to everybody. It's important to the community. It's important to us home growers. It's important to the patients who don't grow. So it's very, very important that we keep up on that sort of thing and do what we can. And then this AI chat bot for natural farming. Sounds so cool. So just love what you guys are doing, and anything we can do to help you, you let us know. Give out the give out the address one more time. Where can people find you website, Instagram, all that stuff.

Yeah. So for early access on the AI natural farming chat bot assistant, or just to support us financially, go over to Patreon, copyleft cultivars non profit, also following us on Instagram. It means a lot, since we're community focused, if you have an Instagram that's at copyleft cannabis for the copyleft cannabis project, and at copyleft cultivars for the larger nonprofit, we're also available and have more information and ways to connect in on our website, copyleftcultivars.com and then the discord that is accessible through all those. It is that I just listed, as well as our email address, copyleft cultivars@gmail.com we really welcome open collaboration. I want to give a shout out to several of our volunteers, Chris burns, James Putman and a few others who, just for now, will remain nameless, but I want to just give a shout out to that. We have a 12 person volunteer team that has been putting a lot of work for four years now as a nonprofit. We are a qualifying nonprofit organization, and we just want to move forward this community as much as we can. We want to move forward this community. And our collaboration. So yeah, it means a lot if people want to reach out and be a part of this

very, very cool. And Steve, of course, where can people find you? My friend? You

guys can find me at Poke ponux and SoundCloud, YouTube, iTunes, Spotify, all the things. But he also can find a scrunner on a Wednesdays over at that smoke show, d a t smoke show, which is kind of more of a panel show, or hang out with a bunch of different cannabis goers from around the world. Never know who will be over there, all kinds of wacky guests sometimes up over there, a little looser than the education show. So anyways, thanks a lot. Thank you for taking the time to help us educate people about this and get the word out about this. We're hoping to kind of find a couple of the people that can help us. If you're interested in helping us, as far as data side, you're good at AI engineering, happen to have access to lots of plant data. You have anything else that my particular useful data wise for this particular project, please feel free to reach out to us, either Caleb or myself on copyleft, through any other means that we just mentioned, or any other way that you guys have a way to get ahold of us. We certainly could use the additional help. And again, if you guys can find a way to support us. Got like 10 extra bucks a month that you want to help us out, please do it really would help us move things along a lot faster and make this really a reality much quicker. I love

it, man. Keep us up to date on everything, on the chat bot, on the galaxy. We look forward to having you guys back in the future. Thank you so much. Appreciate our guest today. Thank you, dear listener. I appreciate your ears being lended. We've got some really good stuff coming at you, so don't touch that dial. We'll have more grow cast in your feed shortly. All right, everyone, that's all that is today's show. This is Caleb, Steve and Jordan, all signing off, saying, Be safe out there, everybody. We'll see you next time. Grow smarter. That's our show. Thank you so much for tuning in. I appreciate you. We've got more coming your way, so don't touch that. Dial. Growcast podcast.com. Is where you can find everything else. The membership, for instance, we've got hundreds of hours of bonus content, our live web show, weekly member videos, members only discounts, weekly giveaways, grow challenges, our member only Discord server, we've got so much waiting for you inside membership. Try it for free for seven days. You can find it at growcast podcast.com there you also find the seeds. We have an apes and space drop that just recently went live, selling out with ease. Thank you guys so much for your support. Grab those packs before they're gone. I appreciate each and every one of you. Most importantly, stay tuned to this show. We got some good stuff coming your way, and I will continue to work diligently to educate you, dear listener, on better cultivation strategies. All right, we'll see you next time bye, bye, everyone you

short introduction, greetings. Sa Molokai, Hawaii, meron Kang, Nata, tanging, pagkataon, NASA men talahin ang, kapang yarihan ng, manga, local Na, bio accumulators.