It's their very first podcast. But I don't want to do that. I do not want to pretend that we don't know what we're doing. Because there is no excuse. I've been doing this in some ways for about 50 years welcome. I have no idea how many of you who are watching or listening right now have been with us for a long time, I will observe my traditional rule that we've got new people, I only tend to think in terms of one on one. So I will make the assumption whether you've listened to me a million times, or never, that you are brand new, welcome. My name is Charles Adler and as I said, just a few moments ago, been doing this for a while I've been doing broadcasting since July 1 of 1973. That's when I pushed the button and became a producer of a radio show a rock radio show in Montreal, which is technically my hometown, my hometown is is Budapest, I don't know how relevant that is to anybody because I was a two and a half year old baby when I was in Montreal, and that's where I was raised. My first gig was when I was 18 years old, as I say, pushing that button. But my first really important one was in Alberta, which is one of the reasons Alberta always just ends up occupying a lot of real estate in my heart. And then just a few moments, I'm going to introduce you to my very favorite Albertan. Calgary is where I push the first on air button for myself, not for others, but for myself. And it was a rock show, nine to midnight at the venerable CKXL. And that was at the end of January in 1974. So as I say, I've been at this for a little while, got into talk radio, also in Calgary, about 19 years later. So I've been doing a talk for well over 30 years talk radio, talk television, tours of duty all over Canada everywhere except a couple of Atlantic provinces and all over the map in the United States. I'm not going to get into a discussion at the moment as to why I've evolved my my career from traditional talk radio to what we're doing right now, which is, is podcasting. But it might come up in a conversation I'm about to have with my favorite Albertan for that matter, my favorite human being in podcasting. And that's Ryan Jespersen. Ryan, thank you so much for joining us on our our debut show.
This is a huge honor Chuck and I'm really excited for you anytime you see somebody launch a new project, you know, independently outside of the the grip of the billion dollar corporate media overlords, you're gonna no doubt grab people's attention. And this, of course, gives your existing audience a place to congregate, aside from our weekly conversations on my show, real talk, but also offer you I mean, you have this commanding voice. I'm pretty proud of my Charles Adler impression of tweaked it and honed it over the years, but you're a veteran in the chair. You've had Canadians thinking you've been pushing their buttons in all the best ways for the better part of a half century with your moments of Canadian Common Sense. But here you are trying something new as well. I mean people's habits and people's access to things like talk shows and the way that people get their information in the first place, let alone dissect it and chew on it is changed. So how are you feeling today?
I'm feeling good, but I can't pretend that this is any different than how I was feeling a few hours ago when I was on your podcast. I'm on yours on Mondays, except it's a long weekend. So you know, I'm on Tuesdays, and in a couple hours from now, I'll be doing another person's podcast. I'll be on with Dean Blundell. So I've been doing podcasting for last couple of years. And of course, I did the talk radio thing for 30 years. I'm always excited to be on I mean, passion is the fuel that drives me. But one of the reasons I've got you on today isn't just because you're the person I give credit to for getting me out of the public communications coffin that I crawled into a couple of years ago, you convinced me that I still had some, some gas in the tank. And I've been having some fun. I wasn't having very much fun the last couple of years of broadcasting. So I didn't know that if I didn't know that the fun could return parently my joy buzzer is still there. And you managed to push it a couple of years ago. Maybe later on we'll get into why that is. But instead of a whole bunch of analysis on that. I think that one of the great things about having you on for this very first show is I could go on and on and on as some poster or want to do about who the hell I am. I think it's much more credible when someone else can tell you so I'm not trying to be lazy here. I've just want to be as communicative with the audience as possible. I cannot be 100% objective but myself. You can be because you heard me a long time before you met me. So I just wonder if you and your Ryan Jespersenesque kind of way, can talk about what it's like to hear me as a listener in Calgary. And as someone who's thinking seriously about getting into the business, I think that's probably a much better way of introducing yours truly, to this blessed audience.
Yeah, well, I knew you before you knew me. That was that was that was the way that it felt. Because that's how Canadians and for him, for that matter. People around the world, connect with their radio and TV personalities. They were, you know, this was, you know, for the for the past half century, these were our influencers, right? The name is has gone on to describe something else in the world of social media, and certainly, in the digital age of information sharing but check you were the one I mean, I was I was kind of one of those weirdos, I was actually I think, a dream audience member a dream radio listener before I knew it, salespeople would have loved me to be able to go to potential clients and say we've got an engaged high school student who can't stop listening to talk radio, a young person who's who has this insatiable appetite to understand what's happening around them, not just the what, but the why. And so yeah, I mean, on am radio waves I was tuned in to us, I did homework I used to do, sort of, and I was grateful to my parents for the opportunity for the work. But I would do a filing after hours at my dad's medical practice, not exactly the most glamorous work, but somebody had to do it. And there was a way that I could could pay for some of the things I wanted to do buy my new basketball shoes and things like that. So there I would be in the late afternoon and evening hours, listening to the AM radio in the back room where all the filing would happen alphabetizing all these patient charts, listening to you make sense of stuff and hold people's feet to the fire and when explaining in your words, why you thought things were happening or what you thought might happen next. And so I grew to admire that. And I think one of the great tips of the cap to any talk host is when they hear from an audience member from a listener from maybe a friend, you might call them, that when something would happen in the world or something would happen in Canada, one of my first thoughts would be, I wonder what Chuck's gonna say about it. And so I felt like I kind of knew you a little bit. And then fast forward 15 years or so 20 years later, when you and I had a chance to start seeing our paths cross more frequently working for the same broadcast corporation. And of course, sometimes being able to participate in events together, you and I were in Toronto at the same time covering the 2019 federal election, I'll never forget, I mean, I got a real kick out of it on one hand, a career highlight for me to be on that broadcast. And on the other a personal highlight off the record cameras off you and me just going for beers and wings. And that was one of my one of my favorite times together to to just pick your brain and understand what made you tick and, and people that listen to this show. And the people that have been listening to you for decades will come to understand a lot of the factors that are at play, as you disseminate things and as and as you chime in on things. And that comes from number one, I think a lot of experience, what you've gleaned and years of of having people's you're bending the ears of the power players and calling them how you see him. But also, you've got this ability, Chuck, despite the fact that you've been a so called big name, I mean, I call you the titan of talk for people that are watching this, or that see you on real talk, you know, they see that me behind you. That's not something that you win by accident, and very few people have them. But you got that you earned that and you earned the trust of Canadians because you've always had an ability to understand what makes people tick. And I'm not just talking about the premiers and the prime ministers, the CEOs and the Chairman, I'm talking about the average people, the people that work for a living the people that come home at night to their families or the people that dream of something bigger than where they're at and your ability to reach them, I think is why you've achieved what you have through broadcasting. And it's one of the reasons why I'm proud to call you a friend.
Well, here's, here's here's the deal. There are many people these days who for all of the sort of self evident reasons, everyone listening to podcasts knows what I'm talking about, have grown really suspicious of all institutions. That's not just the government. That's not just the police. It's not just the military. That's not just a revenue collecting agencies. That's not just the local library that includes media, there is a an enormous suspicion of media. Can you explain to me in your own way, you know, your media star, your media podcast are at the moment, you do the best appearances in Alberta. For years, you were the host of the hockey games, and the football games. And I didn't get to meet you until you were an Alberta superstar. I can't, you know, analyze exactly what it is that I saw in you that I personally identified with, I can't tell you exactly what it was that I, I saw and heard in you, that made me feel the same fire that I felt many years earlier when I got attracted to broadcasting. But I went through a very, very long desert. For many, many years, there was absolutely nobody on the radio that I could personally identify with. And then you came along, we happen to be working for the same corporation. And so that made it easy, even easier for me to to access you. But if there's one thing that I'd love to ask you very, very publicly, why is it that despite this enormous amount of suspicion and cynicism about media people, why is it that Ryan Jesperson, even though many people who are listening to you have never personally met you feel that they have feel that you're their son, you're their brother, you're their uncle? You're their father, what is it that you do? And what is it about the medium that you're in? That makes people feel like Ryan Jesperson is family?
Hmm. Well, I appreciate that, first of all, is it because we keep it real? I'm trying to decide if it's, we're more real, or we're more reckless? And, and I've always been reckless in my life, I'm prudent in all the right ways that wear my seatbelt when I drive. You know, all those things. But, but I think that, you know, we have, you know, what's that cliche chalk that the the stamp on coasters and folks have up in their vacation home where it says something like, like dance like nobody's watching and you know, yadda, yadda, yadda. That's sort of a thing where maybe as the rest of the world in real life was living out loud, our broadcast personalities lost their ability to do that chained to their desks or chained to the sort of corporate mandates. And everyone would kind of roll their eyes on this one, like we're coming across as the disgruntled duo. But the fact of the matter is, it's tougher and tougher to find people, mainstream media stars that call them how they see them. For real, that actually say what they mean, because there are so many factors at play. And I don't know, maybe that was part of my downfall when it came to corporate media. But I look at it as the biggest opportunity in my life, because I've never been able to divorce myself from how I feel about something. If I'm thrilled about something, you'll know it if I'm really upset about something, you'll know it, my big wins have been very public. And some of my biggest losses have been very public as well. And who can't relate to not winning every single one of them who can't relate to being a little bit annoyed at something or to being optimistic about something when maybe there's no reason to be. But all you know is that your gut, or your heart is telling you to be that way. And when we decided that we were going to name my show real talk, it wasn't by accident. And it wasn't some marketing firm that came up with some clever idea. It was because that was the promise that we were making our audience that on, some things will land on the left. And on some things we might land on the right. But in all things, we'll tell you how we really feel about it. And maybe it was my upbringing, it certainly wasn't coaching. That's just the only way I've ever known how to roll.
The easiest way for somebody in Canada or the United States and I'm not going to get into all the other countries of the world. I know a lot about them. But I want to just focus on North America here because North America is where most of our our audience is today, tomorrow and the next day. So in terms of Canada and the USA, the easiest way for a talk show host to immediately attract a base audience is in this country to attack Trudeau attack Trudeau attract Trudeau F Trudeau F Trudeau all day long. And you automatically get a certain audience. It's got an appetite for that. But the same token the United States, you do exactly the same thing with Joe Biden, it doesn't matter to me why. One can bogged down in all kinds of analysis. And some people enjoy bringing on all the the sociologists and all the political scientists to explain all this. I personally as you know, Ryan, knowing me for four years now, I get a headache listening to a bunch of analysis. I'd much rather have straight from the heart straight from the gut talk. I do not believe I never have believed that just doing the predictable right wing thing on every issue or left wing thing on every issue works. I want to drive all over the road. I want to be reckless, no, I don't want to drive all over the Deerfoot and all over the Trans Canada and all over the roads of Canada. It's not to be taken literally, but as far as my mind goes and this is all about the mind, we are inside peoples' heads. If we can't get in peoples' heads, there's no point in getting out of bed.
let's all agree, we're working toward the common goal, which is elevating our team, the best team to the championship. Nobody likes the discomfort. Nobody likes to be told that their favorite player is overrated or that their team is headed in the wrong direction. Although sometimes misery loves company, I think of in my own context, as a young child all the way through growing up in evangelical circles. I was fascinated to see that once people found their way into the teenage and then young adult, and then adult years, how their dogma would change how their conviction on issues would change when real life would collide with what they had always believed what they had been taught to believe. And you would see people changing their minds on things like LGBTQ issues, or abortion or divorce, or some of the ways that perhaps finance works in the real world taxes and social services and health care. What about medical assistance in dying? What about all of these controversial things that are black and white at one point in somebody's life, all the way up until somebody that they dearly care about makes that issue more personal, and more immediately relevant, those moments of discomfort, force somebody often or even most times in quiet moments, to really put through the wringer why they believe what they believe. And I've always thought that we should challenge our own beliefs. And I'm not just talking about religious dogma. Now I'm talking about everything, challenge, why we believe what we believe. And I think that once something you believe whatever that pillar is, is forged by fire, once it's gone through that scrutiny. And that process, if you still believe what you believed before, then I think you can rest easy in that you can confidently present that perspective. But if you're afraid of dissenting opinions, if you're afraid of, you know, responsible, respectful debate, then I don't see how anybody's belief system can stand on its own two legs. And I sure as hell wouldn't want to host a talk show that operated under that pretense. So I'm thrilled when people tell me that they can't pin me down on the political spectrum. I'm thrilled when somebody tells me that they're surprised at the position that I took on an issue, because I think that human beings are more nuanced. And I know for a fact that human beings are more complicated than what political party organizers or other community leaders would have us believe. And I think that good talk shows should reflect that nuance.
There's three factors that all superstars who are communicators have in common, this is something that I was taught by a person much wiser than me, many, many years ago. And the three factors are intelligence, humor, and empathy. The superstars in all fields of communication, have all of those three and they've got them in barrels, not a little bit, but a lot, a lot of a lot of smarts, a lot of humor, that is a very, very strong, powerful sense of humor. And the most important factor is the one that sorry, guys, you basically have to be born with. And that's empathy, being able to walk a mile in someone else's boots, I'm confident that one of the reasons why you jumped right off the radio screen for me is that you're obviously a very, very whip smart guy, you obviously have a tremendous sense of humor, but most important, you can easily and naturally put yourself in someone else's shoes, someone who may disagree with you on just about everything. But you really listen to them. You listen to their mind, you listen to their heart, you listen to the way they process. How did I get to know this personally, because of personal conversations I had with you. And I was able to open up to you the way I was able to open up to nobody. There's nobody else that I have trusted with my most intimate secrets that anywhere comes close to Ryan Jesperson. It's another one of the reasons why I'm honored to have you here. When you were a young evangelical student, how did you think about empathy? And I'm asking for a very, very specific reason. Many people who don't know very much about evangelical Christianity, just leap to the conclusion that these guys are robots. They're told that whatever's in the Bible literal, as is literal, and they just robotically repeat and repeat and repeat. And they never do any original thinking. That is nonsense. And my best example of the nonsense is my friend who was raised as an evangelical thinking person And the idea that he was a robot or the idea that he could ever be a robot is absolute nonsense. So take me to when you were a young student in the evangelical school, take me to the idea of empathy. And that is specifically putting yourself in the shoes of people who do not have your particular religious belief system. How was that like for a 1415 year old evangelical student called Ryan Jesperson?
Yeah. And I think that, you know, the principles that we're talking about here are like the influence earlier in life is, is what survived my my allegiance to evangelical Christianity didn't. But it was the examples that I saw in front of me lived examples. That went a long way. I mean, I, you know, I grew up in it, you know, I guess to put it, frankly, an affluent household, you know, both of my parents professionals, and, and I remember that on Friday nights, we'd have family nights, but but the nights were titled every Friday night was called others first. And, and so we would, we would always have a treat in store, whether that was, you know, we were going to, I mean, Chuck, obviously, we're talking back in the day. So whether we were gonna go to the independent video store and rent a 40 pound VHS machine to lug home with a VHS copy of Old Yeller, or whatever we were gonna watch Mary Poppins Chitty Chitty, bang, bang, you name it, whatever it was, whether we're going to order pizza, or my mom was going to make her famous lasagna or whatever it was, for family night on the Friday night, they would first bring out a bin of stickers and stationery and all kinds of cool stuff. And we would put together care packages for families, we would write letters to people that were that were working around the world, we would have pen pals, and of course support young people in communities through agencies and organizations, nonprofits that are still doing some of that work today. Some of them who I'm still proud to support and others that I've moved on from but the point was, the principle was there, the understanding that we were to place or put others first that we were to elevate other people first, before we would benefit or, you know, enjoy the fruits of my parents labor. That was one example. You know, my dad working in health care, my mom, working in education, seeing the conviction with which they operated. I remember one instance, in particular, where a patient of my dad's who, you know, lives, you know, if he's still around, I hope he is who lives or lived with schizophrenia, you know, interrupted a family gathering in public. And and, you know, as sort of was experiencing an episode, you know, pardon my rudimentary and civilian level understanding of the vernacular, but but it was clear that this guy was experiencing mental illness, and that this was a very real and visceral experience, not just for him, but for our family as well, especially us as young children and, and seeing how my dad, you know, not just I wouldn't say intercepted him because it almost sounds like he deflected and he did it. He showed him care and respect. And I remember and Charles, I'm 46. Now this has to be 35 years ago, I still remember how it made me feel. To see my dad approaching that situation with such empathy. A lot of times healthcare professionals can be criticized, and in some cases, the criticism is very fair, for being a little bit too booksmart not enough street smart, you know, we call it bedside manner, or the lack thereof, and seeing my dad's, you know, ability to treat someone as as an equal as a valuable and cherished human being, despite the fact that the situation was quite uncomfortable for all of us. Those are the types of things that had a really big impact on me as a person. And I've seen it all the way through. And I think that, you know, human beings that that do have that empathy. Understand that, you know, sometimes it's the little things right, that we, you know, you mentioned that I worked for the Edmonton Oilers for a lot of years is there in Arena host and, and now I'm lucky enough to be able to attend those games with my son, who's seven years old. And and, you know, as is the case in any downtown urban center, when you're walking to a hockey game, or a concert or your favorite restaurant, chances are you're going to see people who are down and out, you're going to see people who have not had the same opportunity as us not just denied opportunities, but in some circumstances have survived horrific experiences that would take down some of the strongest of us. And you know, in a world where so many people can experience that discomfort that we talked about prompting them to look the other way. Walk past as quickly as they can. To me some time has its life through the eyes of a child as the biggest teacher hearing my seven year old Wyatt, you know, suggest that we help somebody out or, or grab a five out of my wallet to pass it along to them. And, and that's, you know, I don't care if Connor McDavid scores a hat trick that night, my son Wyatt suggesting that we treat a human being with the dignity that they deserve is the biggest win that night. And, and I think that empathy is lived I think empathy can pass the pass down. And I do think that empathy can be learned. But I think sometimes the process of learning empathy can be a difficult one. Because sometimes you've got to deconstruct some of the things the formative influences in your life that have prevented you from feeling or displaying empathy toward people. And maybe talk shows like this one, and like mine can go a long way in challenging us and, and nudging us towards those uncomfortable areas.
Well, you're talking about a W and you know, no matter how well Connor McDavid did that night, if Wyatt is suggesting that you help someone who's been down and out, that's, that's a bigger win, than whatever Connor McDavid can do on the ice. And one of the big wins for me is every time I bump into someone who I think is a better person than I am, you know, and this is one of the reasons I love, I love chatting with you. I think you're a better person, I am for a multitude of reasons. But one of the reasons is that you don't shut down on the idea that people can be taught empathy. In my experience, I have not I've not seen it, the I see people who are empathetic, become more empathetic. And that is something that really turns me on. That's always a big W for me, that always makes my day. But I have never, I have not yet and I want before I before I pass on to the other world, I want to meet somebody, just one person who can show me that they are someone that I gave up on someone who had absolutely no empathy, and they became empathetic. And it doesn't matter to me whether they did it because they were listening to the right talk show host or they went to the right church or temple, synagogue, whatever, I don't care, you have the optimism that I don't have about people who don't have empathy. Can you give me any specific examples, and it doesn't have to be a famous person. Because we don't give a hoot. We're two very fortunate privileged people who've been able to access every famous person imaginable short of you know, Jesus Christ, but all the ones who were alive we have access to so it's not the famous people that give us a buzz. It's the average people who never get their names on websites who never get the whole shows, and they do things that just blow our doors off. Can you give me an example of a single person that you've met over the years, that everybody all the Charles Adler's of the world gave up on this person's got no empathy, this person is just going to lead a a miserable life, because they just can't figure out how it's really, really important to walk a mile in someone else's shoes. There's just there's just no way that they can ever become empathetic. Have you met one of these people? And have you done something? Or have you seen something happen to them, where they have grown and to use a religious expression that evangelicals take very seriously? Reborn? Have you seen rebirth in your own life?
Well, I mean, this isn't somebody that I met personally. But, you know, last week, I think, did all of Canada. Is it fair to say did all of Canada celebrate the life of Dr. Sue Johansson last week, sex with Su Sunday night sex show? I mean, you know, Canada's sex grandma, they called her like, she was, you know, Canada's greatest sex educator. I mean, how many of us, you know, learned, you know, some of our earliest, especially, let's say, in some learning environments, where sex ed left, you no ground to be covered, shall we say, information that you know, to be desired, there was not exactly the most fulsome sex ed curriculum for a lot of young people I think most especially back in the in when Dr. Sue was doing her thing in the 80s and the 90s and into the early 2000s. And I was paying attention, as we're most people, some of the really compelling stories, because number one, it's just fun to talk about. You know, I mean, her subject matter was always compelling. You know, she was she was on the air producing that show during the AIDS crisis. And so some of the talk was very deadly serious about contraception and safe sex and, and sometimes Charles says, you know, there would be a caller, I didn't think I'd be saying anal beads on Episode One of the Charles Adler show, but here I am. It would be a caller curious to know more about anal beads and there would be Dr. Sue Johansson, to give them a respectful plain and oftentimes, obviously very entertaining answer. She was a master of her craft. I'll get to the point I saw an individual that was tweeting out at Toronto. That's all I know about them. And I discussed it last week on my show, people can check out our Twitter thread if they want to learn more specifically, or track down that Twitter thread and find the individual who it was Charles, I don't know them personally. But this guy shared his personal story of listening to an LGBTQ advocate, a community advocate on the Sunday night sexual with Dr. Su. And this individual as a young gay teen, recorded that episode on tape. Like back in the day, remember when he used to hit record and play at the same time on our boom boxes, and we could record the interviews. But this individual was so petrified that his parents, his mom, in particular, would find that tape and hear the interview and question him as to why he had recorded that interview that he actually put a padlock through the tape. So you couldn't actually put the tape into a tape machine. That's how nervous this guy was that the tape would be discovered. But as he went on, to live His truth and into his later teen years, he realized that well, he wanted his mom to know. And well, eventually, his mom walked in on him making out with his boyfriend on the couch. And that was his coming out moment because it was undeniable. His mom didn't talk to him. And the days went on. And it was more than a week. And the time went on and there was no discussion, the relationship the well had been poisoned. And so this guy put that tape that interview with Dr. Sue on his mom's bed and left it there unlocked the padlock and left it there for her to listen. As she listened to the interview, emotionally came to him and the Twitter thread tells the story better than I can. It's his story firsthand. But this guy's mom went on to become one of the first the founding members of PFLAG which is a parent's advocacy group for for gay, lesbian, trans and queer kids. His mom went on to fiercely advocate for gay rights and equality for the next number of decades until her passing that was her moment her conversion moment whatever it was that was said in that interview with Dr. Seuss struck a chord with this lady who was devastated, at first glance devastated to learn that her son was gay, that maybe his life wouldn't turn out as she had envisioned it, maybe there wouldn't be a wife and three kids, whatever the case was, whatever her understanding of the implications of her son being gay, as misguided as they may have been, it was the compelling power of that interview, that started to turn that tide that started to repair that relationship. And that ultimately paved the way for that woman and her son, of course, to experience an incredibly close relationship for the remainder of their Days on Planet Earth together and tell her passing and, and that was just one off the top of my head that resonated with me, that reminds me of the power of conversation. The power of talk shows the power of truly understanding firsthand when issues that in some cases can just be political, hot potatoes, what they actually mean what they actually translate into when they impact somebody that you dearly care about. Ryan, can
you explain to me I mean, we're basically a couple of straight guys who talked about the gay issue like not at all, when we were growing up, but it just, it just didn't come up. And then all of a sudden, it absolutely dominated the space. I'm not just talking about media, I'm talking about you know, real life, all of a sudden, it became incredibly important. And most straight guys ended up being separated into two classes. And one was empathetic toward gays and lesbians, trans people, and accepting that not all of us got into celebrating it, but we got into accepting it. It was, you know, not our personal business. You know, love is love, how people love each other, you know, whatever, it became a whatever for most straight guys. But for some people, they just never got past this idea that people who were different than them were somehow people that you could disparage and you could even hate on. And today, you know, it's focused on on the transition, but really, it's it's really focused on anyone who isn't absolutely, traditionally straight. Can you explain to me what the difference is based on your own life? What is it what is it that separates the guys who are fine whether they're celebrating it or not, they're fine with it from the guys who just can't let go of the loathing. It's some something that I struggle with every day I try to figure out what is it you know, there are people in my life who I know who I've grown up with, and they just can't let go. Of I call it the loathing but sometimes it does actually go to hate, which is creepy and scary, but I just do not understand And what it is they were brought up the same as I, we share so many things together. But on that particular issue, we ended up having to agree to disagree. Is that something you think about from time to time?
Well, I mean, I just sometimes I just, you know, we talked back about even, I mean, you, you talked about it, you know, a number of moments ago, and in the craft of audience building, right, and sort of the approach that a lot of talk hosts take, you know, we look at the cable news reality down in the United States. I mean, that's a classic example there. I mean, I think part of it is that some people are just really susceptible to rage farming. And that's not a phrase that we use back in the day. But that doesn't mean it wasn't happening just because there wasn't a name for it. I think that some people chequered is easily duped. Number one. Now, this is a very simplistic answer. If this was my only answer. I think that that would be oversimplifying some of the very real issues that are out there. I mean, we talked about religious dogma five minutes ago, that's another one of the factors, certainly at play. But I think that a lot of people are simply I mean, they're more comfortable in the flock than they are as a leader or an outlier. And I think that some people are simply spoon fed or you know, sustained by IV, metaphorically speaking, when it comes to what inspires them and what freaks them out what outrages them, they are told, they are told and informed what it is, that's going to be the problem this week that they're going to attack. And you look at the people that right now are, you know, boycotting Bud Light shooting cases of Bud Light with their shotguns and their AR fifteens. Because the beer giant partnered with a trans influencer among the 1000s of influencers that IT partners with. You think that those people that this was on their radar before they weren't told or explained why this is a real problem? Does it really matter to these people? Does it change any element of any part of their day that Bud Light partnered with a trans woman to celebrate her first year on her new life's journey? Does that really actually impact anybody? Well, the answer, of course, is no. So why are people so outraged by it? And I also think, to be honest, Chuck, there's a huge amount of insecurity when it comes to people that are threatened by or turned off by certain things, people that are outraged, but I had a guy email me just today, saying, Why aren't you discussing the you know, the problem that is naked men dancing at Pride Parade? Is that a real problem? Huge. It's just a huge,
I've lost a lot of sleep over that one.
Guy. I mean, I don't know. I mean, like, you know, inflation is out of control. And people can't afford housing. And the federal government's doling out grocery credits because people can't feed their kids nutritious food without skipping on paying the electrical bill. But guys in speedos that pride parades are the biggest problem that you think that this talk show should be tackling. I don't know, I just, you know, I had a guy rip on me the other day, Chuck, I was walking downtown wearing a pretty fabulous pair, if I might say, have salmon colored pants, and the guy looks at me and says, What's the point of those pants? And I said, I don't know that pants or to have a point. And I just kept walking and it rocked me for like an hour like the comment that the guy made. I mean, number one to make the comment to a stranger but but number two to be sort of thrown off to the point of verbalizing it the color of my pants, had this guy reaching out to me demanding an answer as to why I chose that particular shade of pink. I don't know, man, I probably will not I probably I certainly don't have the level of understanding on this on what is obviously a very serious issue of homophobia and transphobia. And these are one of the very, you know, I mean, the varied numbers of of uncomfortable conversations that we endeavor to have the root cause conversation. And I'm glad you're having it maybe for every single person that's different. But I think that ignorance is a big one. And if you talk to people that have changed their mind on issues like this, or other ones, it's going to come back to this common theme. Chuck, it's going to come back to oftentimes, if not, most times, somebody that they love somebody that they care about. They didn't maybe understand or know what this person's reality was. But when they did recognize that their daughter is a lesbian, or that their son is their daughter or that well, you know what I'm saying? Right? When it all of a sudden lands in their own backyard, and they're forced to wrestle with something and that is either scale up your understanding and preserve the relationship or risk losing that relationship forever. I'd like to think that most people are are capable of and motivated to make the right choice.
So Ryan, there's only one uncomfortable question. left and then we're gonna we're gonna park company, but it's something I want to ask you about. Look, people who have followed me know this for people who haven't, they don't. But I was raised, you know, I can call it working class, I can call it a lot of things. But you know, the phrase that always sticks out for me is, I was raised in a home where we really didn't have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of, you know, we were a typical immigrant story. In the very first days, we were in this country, I asked my mom to please buy me a Kaiser roll, because as a two and a half year old child raised in a different country, that was a real big deal for me, they didn't call them Kaiser rules, at the time they call them Viana rolls, but I think now everyone knows what I'm talking about. And they cost one penny in the bakery and Montreal, they cost one penny, and my mother couldn't afford to buy me that Kaiser roll, it's still one of those tender issues that kind of bust me up. But as I've said before, on, on many shows, including your own, just because something grips my feelings and makes it tender and difficult, doesn't mean that I have the right to keep it to myself, I serve the audience, I don't serve myself, and my audience deserves to hear the story, regardless of how difficult it is for me to talk about. So yes, I grew up poor, dirt poor, you did not. I grew up in a situation where yes, it was people like the Jasper sons, people who had money, some of them were were very affluent, who gave my father the opportunity to put food on the table, because he ended up after five years of factory labor, owning his little store, and who was able to afford the tailoring that he could do for people altering their pants and skirts, you know, tightening this and loosening that all of that cost real money, because it required a lot of real work from a real skill tailor, like my father, but not everyone could afford his services, the people who were upper middle class and upper class well, they could. So yes, I was grateful to those people. But one of the things that I am not grateful for in terms of our popular culture, is this idea that people who grow up comfortable, can't have empathy, can't feel anything, can't be in touch with real people can't really care about real people. And when it comes to communications, they can't be the same kind of communicator, whether they're doing it at a political level, or a talk show host level, they can't be at the same level as those of us who struggled, I learned a hell of a lot from people who had a hell of a lot more than I did. So yes, I was grateful for their business. I was also grateful for their experience, grateful for their wisdom. But you grew up as a person who was comfortable. Did you go through a period in your career, and you've done many, many things in public communications, we know you as a great talk show host. But over the years, did you ever have to confront this idea that some people think that you were privileged and therefore could not connect with the real issues that we talk about every day?
I mean, I, I know for a fact that you don't know this story, because I've never told you this story, because I don't really tell this story. But I'll tell it here on Episode One of the Charles Adler show. So I had a relationship of friendship in elementary school and junior high with a guy that, in my recollection was completely positive. We had, you know, been in the same class for a number of years. He had always been invited to my, you know, my birthday parties, things like that. I mean, I'm talking like childhood, right elementary school into junior high, you know, my family would give him rides home, he was from a single parent family would give him rides home after, you know, sporting practices and things like that, and, and our lives drifted apart. And, you know, we didn't attend the same high school and we lost touch. And, and I wouldn't have known where to find them. You know, I mean, had he not, you know, I mean, had had Mark Zuckerberg not released this, Facebook, right and in the late 2000s and, and I think everybody that you know, is on Facebook can probably think back to a remember, right when it first started, what a phenomenal experience it was. Now I think we take it for granted because it's become our normal. And because, you know, we're so sort of overwhelmed almost by social media that now we're looking for ways to disconnect from people that we used to go to school with but but when I saw this guy's name pop up on my suggested friends, I quickly added him and sent him a note right away, saying, you know how excited I was to to see him there. And you know, I clicked through a few of his photos and looked like the family was doing well and and how are you and if you're ever in my neck of the woods, you know, I'm hosting a TV show in Edmonton at the time and come on up and I'm working for the Oilers and it would be great to see To you, and it was just like, I hope you're well, you know, one of these really optimistic positive, almost sort of gushing type messages. And the venom that I received back from this guy, who in the opening line of his response, told me where to go and how to get there, blew my doors off and knocked my socks off and pushed me to the point of almost physically wanting to vomit. I remember my palms sweating, as I was reading this lengthy response from a guy now a grown man who explained to me what it was like to be around me and the other classmates at this private school, who completely lacked any understanding of the challenges that he and his brother had gone through, that were completely oblivious to and naive of the impact of, of some of the comments that we may make as children as idiot kids, some might say innocent kids, but I'm trying to own a little bit of this right now. Not understanding the privilege that we were experiencing, and the different walks of life that that people were coming from and, and Chuck, I could go off on a whole thing about private schools right now, I am not anti private school. You know, I do believe that parents should have a role in their kids education. And this is a deep and complex topic that I feel qualified to discuss, based on my personal experience, my observations over the years, but but one of my criticisms of private school. And I'm grateful for the the investment that my parents made, and quite frankly, the sacrifices that they made to send all four of us kids to private school, and private university, for that matter. But but but one of my criticisms would be is that it was a very homogenous environment. And, and we didn't see the diversity on an ethnic fronts on a religious front, on the socio economic front, on a political front, we just didn't see it. And when you don't see it as a young person, your norms are defined by abnormal parameters. And that was, that was a very difficult lesson for me. And this story does not have a happy ending. I responded after after due consideration and a real gut check, and hoped that I would have an opportunity to make it right. And I did respond to His message. And to this day, I've not heard back from him, and it eats at me, Chuck, and I rarely talk about it. I regret every single second of whatever it was. And it sounds to me like there were many, I think it was death by 1000 cuts, there was never, in my recollection, there was never a moment where there was any sort of discomfort or your malice or anything like that. But but that's the point. The point is it wasn't on my radar. And and that's something where I think to this day, I try to remember that guy, I don't say his name publicly, I hope that one day we'll be able to reconcile my memory of him is my understanding of what he is if he if he is the adult that he was trending to become as a child, he's probably a wonderful guy. And, and that is something that experience is something that impacts me to this day and will impact me for the rest of my life.
Well, you know, it's interesting, because it impacts me for the rest of my life that my mom couldn't afford. One penny. Yeah, to get me that Vienna rule. She couldn't afford that penny. And of course, it impacts me. And how does it affect the rest of my life? It doesn't matter how successful Canadians and Americans have made me, I never stopped thinking about that human being who is a mom. And it's not just my mom, it's millions of moms, who literally don't have a penny or in these days with inflation, call it 20 pennies, call it 50 pennies, call it a loonie call or whatever, but don't have what it takes to just get their child something very, very basic. It stayed with my mom for the rest of her life. It has stayed with her son. And I know that it stays with people who are listening to us right now. If there's one thing that you and I are very, very fortunate about, some would say blessed with. It's the capacity for memory. We remember those people who touched us, and they never stopped touching us. And thank goodness, thank God, that whatever success we have, has not created a big wall between the people who touched us way back when and the people who are still continuing to touch us right now. Nobody has touched me in recent years professionally, like you have. There's no way that I have the vocabulary to express my gratitude. So I will if you don't mind, Ryan, I will simply say, thank you for being who you are. And I think everyone that means your three siblings, that means your uncle's, your aunts. And that means, especially your parents, the great educator, mom and the great doctor. Father, I just want to thank all of them for giving the world and giving me specifically, if I can be selfish for a moment, giving me the life of Ryan Jesperson. Thank you.
Well, it's surreal to hear me to hear you say that Chuck, and means the world to me. And I'm super excited for you and this new adventure. And it's a privilege to chat with you every single week on our show. And you know how I feel about Chappelle, and I hope after this everybody else does too. So I'm proud to be among your subscribers and I can't wait to see what the Charles Adler show has in store.
You can easily subscribe to the Ryan's as person podcast. It's called Real Talk just Google Bing. I really don't care how you get there. But you'll get there. Ryan Jesperson. He happens to be based in Edmonton? But his heart is bigger than the planet Earth Ryan. Thank you again.
Thanks, Chuck.
Catch Charles Adler Mondays on Real Talk with Ryan Jesperson twice a week in the Winnipeg Free Press, and every day at choir media.co
