Building A Talent Pipeline For Product In The Newsroom
6:00PM Aug 26, 2023
Speakers:
Keywords:
product
journalism
work
hiring
product manager
understanding
audience
thinkers
team
building
news
navigating
newsroom
idea
roles
talent
discussion
people
change
journalists
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it Hello Hello everyone. Can you hear me? Is this? Yeah, it's good. Can you hear that? No Hello? Yes. Okay. Hi everyone. Look at you still having brain space to learn things on a Saturday afternoon after all these days and early morning alarm that I think everybody suffered through right. We recovered was still shaking a little bit. We heard that it was a elevator malfunctioning that started it because we did some investigative journalism. But today we're talking about product and to get us started with a little bit of a fun activity. We thought that we would do a poll, but we're not going to use slide or anything. We're going to do an old fashioned low tech poll where we raise our hands and we're going to ask you what is your favorite successful use product or media product right you're going to have three choices.
Yeah, we this is not very democratic. We've picked three you'll need to vote from the three we picked and if not, they are recommendations.
And they're successful. Why? Because they made money for the companies that created them right? They increased traffic or they increase of subscribers they found a new need in their audiences serve that need all that good stuff that good products are doing. So we had these are the three choices you're gonna have.
Okay, I'll explain. Morning groups tick tock account. That's the one then we had to put this The New York Times talking up. But then because we are media people, and we are a bit endothermic we brought in the Axios media letter from Sarah Fisher. So who's voting for number one,
the morning brew? Tick tock? Nobody,
nobody. How many people are on tick tock here. Oh, that's some very reduced percentage
cooking app how many people
seems to be the winner.
You Your heart is in between. And the Axios media trend newsletter.
This has been an overwhelming majority for the New York Times cooking up.
Does anybody want to tell us why? It's such a good product in your opinion?
We are not taking the mic to the person from the New York Times.
Well, that's not me. Just good recipes.
Just simple, simple proposition.
Does one thing very well.
What's that, according to solving the problem? That's a product response for that
recipe box and I hate users.
I like the honesty.
I think the best thing is that the users create content. And that creates community and it's this feedback loop of the users adding additional value to the content that has been created by the professionals.
I would also add that it brings people not traditionally interested in news subscription to a subscription to a media organization that you can bundle up.
I would just say that I like it because I can filter I have a lot of dietary restrictions. So I can filter by my dietary restrictions so I can find something gluten free and something vegan which is like very niche and I still find recipes so it works for me.
Great, thank you. Okay, well let's get started now. We don't have a clicker. So this is going to be sorry. Well, let's get introductions out of the way
Yes, we did not introduce introduce ourselves that was sloppy of us. Hi, my name is Phillip Gary game, the executive director of the newest product Alliance. And the news product Alliance is a community of support and practice for news product thinkers. And our mission is to elevate the discipline of news product management and expanded diversity of news product thinkers and decision making roles.
And I'm originally low and I'm at the Craig Newmark Graduate School of Journalism at CUNY in New York. And we have been doing and I had j plus, which is a program that does professional training. And we have been doing product trainings for quite a while I feel like we were pioneers in News, the news applications of four products, including one of our most popular thing, the product immersion for small newsrooms, which was our first partnership with the news product Alliance. And when I was doing the slides, and I was cutting and pasting these like faces I was just so proud and I look at this community of international products and thinkers that are also journalists and talented and committed journalists. So this was our first partnership. Now what we're doing you have a card on your table is that we are this was like a beginner program. This is the advanced version. This is a rigorous program that we are going will start taking applications in two weeks. So check it out. And this is again a partnership between us product Alliance and us. So today we're talking about building the talent pipeline for news product. And this is a session that we thought we'd be that we designed for two different Democrat credit, demographic graphics. Thank you. One is people who are managers in a position to hire and are looking to, you know, be able to identify and find product thinkers, and then the product thinkers or the journalists that would like to make a bit of a pivot or move and increase their chances of having a career on the in that new discipline like a product manager or something. So just just so we get a sense, how many people belong in the first category which are like managers that may be able to hire people, okay, so look around these are people and then I guess I assume that the rest is the second category is people who would like to be hired. Alright.
One thing to say is that we are bringing our knowledge and our experience, but this is a collaborative session. We have not solved the problem of building a talent pipeline, and we need all of us here to help it solve it. So that's what we will be doing in the next few minutes.
So here's the plan a little bit we'll do very quickly. Why news product because this is obviously we're preaching to the choir, you all know why. But then we'll talk about what we've discovered doing all these this work in product about what skills are needed what recruiters talk about, that they are needed the gap. Then we'll have a little bit of a discussion about how we can bridge this skill gap together. And then we'll talk about some ideas we have for where to find product talent. So why product? Why news product? Why are we even talking about this? This is like our theory of change is that if we're going to save John Johnson, he's going to be saved and he's going to strive it's going to have to involve some product thinking, methodologies and principles. And why is that important? So important because it does so many great things. Like focusing on audience needs increasingly engagement with news, helping navigate new technologies, emerging technologies, like AI, I don't know if you've heard AI and then leading to and then obviously leading to sustainable sustainability like financial sustainability for journalism.
So because we believe it's that important that we develop the capacities to actually serve in serve the informational needs of our communities and our audiences. It's why we care about building a news product talent pipeline. And we were we told you that we were developing the newest product management certification. And because we wanted to develop that in a way that really served and helped build this type this talent pipeline, we conducted in depth interviews with several hiring managers to try to identify what were the skills they thought were missing when they were looking for candidates or people to feel the product positions. So here's some of the things that we learned that they were looking for when hiring newest product talent. The first one was curiosity and informed questioning. What does what this means is the ability to question why we're doing things and be curious about the reasons behind what we do be curious about our own industry and our own processes, and having the talent to question and do it in an informed way. That gets you the information. That produces actionable items are actionable steps. And then this came up again, understanding how to ask questions in various contexts, because product managers don't only need to deal with identifying what are the audience's needs so they probably need to develop that type of questioning, but they also need to deal with stakeholders from all over the organization and they also need to be prepared to ask questions to them and understand what are their needs so that they can align them towards a shared product vision. The other skill that came up a lot while talking with hiring managers and what they expected from the product thinkers that they would be hiring is problem solving skills from strategy to execution. And this is navigating that path between having a strategy and crystallizing it in executable steps towards solving a problem. That's what hiring managers were looking for in major to senior level news product managers. Lastly, and I don't think we talked about this enough is technical understanding and communication skills. I know we've said many times that you do not need to be a developer to be a product manager. But you do need to understand technology. You do need to know what developers are talking about. You do need to know what designers are talking about. You do need to have data skills and you need to be able to communicate them to audiences that don't and stakeholders that don't. Also, and going back to the technical skills that we need gathering insights with data analysis and user research, and this both includes empathy work, discovery work, audience research, audience developer development, but also navigating big datasets and also complex analytics to extract the insights that can actually guide a product strategy and move the business forward. And lastly, understanding your leadership strengths and how to work with others. Many of us are product managers here because a lot of us, like, raise your hand when we asked if we're hiring managers, and most of the time product roles do not have formal authority. And their work is based on collaboration and luring people into your vision. We need to be mindful of our own skills and our strengths so that we can leverage that to get people around our vision and building this product vision. And in the same line, managing stakeholders and building relationships. That's the way in which you navigate called corporate cultures and get to execute that product strategy that we talked about before. However, all of this topics came up, and some hiring managers were more emphatic about some things and some about others. But to be honest, the only one that came up every single time and was very stressed out by all of the people that we talked about was the importance of empathy and communication and they these would be wrongly called soft skills and many phases, but I would call them core skills for news product managers, both with our audiences, our users, our communities, but also with our co workers. And with the news room with the tech side with the sales side, we need to be able to empathize and communicate to work together. But we did not only want to cater to hiring managers and we also wanted to make sure that we were supporting emerging product thinkers that wanted to get in the space. So we hosted a mentor network program from the NPA in which we mentored 150 emerging product thinkers and we worked with them and they reported on the challenges they were facing throughout six months. We analyzed all of the that data to try to identify and narrow down what were the challenges they were facing. When getting into product like formal product roles, or more responsibility product roles. And the vast majority like this was by far the first one most mentioned was navigating and or preparing for career changes. So we are here because we understand there is no pipeline there is no path to becoming a newest product manager from the ones that are already doing it. None of us went to Product Manager school. Like in the university. Most of us are journalists, some or some of us are designers, some learn to code at sourcecon. And we kind of drifted towards that. And as the as the discipline evolves, we need to start building what those entry level product jobs are, and what is each step of the way. So that you so that people getting into the discipline can actually visualize their growth and we can also support them while they go through their growth. So this is a this was the most mentioned. And then the challenges they they mentioned, were the ones that we think that we can tackle with our trainings. So developing product processes, timelines and strategies. Yes. team leadership and management. Yes. UX, user research, audience engagement and retention, subscriptions, memberships, communication plans. stakeholder management, which also came came up from the hiring manager side, promoting a product culture in an organization change management becoming more data driven. And just just to note this, imagine having to having no path forward and also being in charge of changing the culture of the place you're in. It does sound like a bit too much. And I know you're all nodding because you're all doing it. But creating roadmaps and action plans, specific product and project launch implementation, navigating bridge roles, because also the product path. And this is to say, yes, we are training the next generation of product thinkers and product managers and we are offering resources and we are offering community support but there's more than we need to do all together to build that pipeline. Because we won't be able to do it alone. This is an industry wide transformation. So Marie, do
you want to wait Is there any reaction? Any questions about this non exhaustive list of skills? Alright, so how do we bridge this gap? So we thought we would take advantage of having those roundtables and this time together to just you know, have a little bit of mini discussions about what are the obstacles you've seen to build this this pipeline and become a more product forward? Organizations and then what you know, maybe exchange some ideas. So we suggest that for the next 15 minutes, we you guys have discussions in your in your tables, feel free to move tables and like consolidate. Start by introducing yourself never miss an opportunity to introduce yourself to people who could give you a job eventually or that you could hire and just have a nice discussion where we will reconvene after that in about 1015 minutes and kind of see what what transpired said Okay Is everyone alright?
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Hi, everybody. Hello. Thank you for wrapping up your discussions we would love to have some time to share the great wisdom between the different tables. We went around like I went around and heard like some really exciting things but maybe, maybe you guys have something that an interesting idea that came up from your table discussion you want to share with the other tables could be solution observation. The what? table by table. Oh, okay. Yeah, that's a good idea. Nominate Yeah. First table D is anything that came out of your discussion that would be useful.
I think we
talked a lot about just the structure of the product teams. So we have some big organizations here at our table. So talking a lot about how things are siloed and how it kind of makes some Am I saying that right? Like how it kind of makes it difficult to make changes or
yeah also like what goes into a decision of like using a certain tech or using a certain product or building versus buying and how transparent these decisions are and how you can influence them
I mean, product lead, right. I think for me like product lead. You always have to think about the stakeholders you're working with you know, it's product lead is like a mindset but the product is the content and the journalism itself, the newsletter or the video or the article, stuff like that. So I think you know, one thing that my recent experience was like, a bit of a reorg at the Atlantic to try to make ourselves more stakeholder you more flexible to stakeholders, which also helped us be more product lead overall because we could share the product priorities with all the groups no matter what pod they were in.
One thing that we
talked about that can be a barrier for product teams is that a lot of teams outside of the product team may have incentive structures that don't necessarily facilitate product work. So sales may have a very short term goal of how many sales they need to reach in a year. And that can often you know is maybe maybe not necessarily focused on what the best need for the user is and so it can be tough to marry those both those user goals and the business needs as well. And we also talked about how important it is to make sure that there is an understanding within product work of how news works, and that some of the things we inherently do as news organizations to serve our mission are maybe at times blockers to reaching a certain KPI that we have. And so it's important that there are people in the room who are given the power and the influence to accurately be able to speak the language of all of those different teams and get everyone on the same page.
We are maintained out in our discussion was about the human element, the human aspect of it, and how there's a certain culture of avoiding risk and the news ecosystem and how can it be it can be a hurdle to drive changes. We come from different business. He's working with video and he was discussing also how people would have a very business or corporate corporate corporate of men mentality. Still poor provide some resistance to the changes that you want to make, in spite of providing the team with with data, what evidence there's still a very gut driven mentality in the among among journalists, and it's it's one of the blockage for changes.
So in our group Katrina had identified early on that so much of the work that happens in newsrooms, really is product work. by another name. And wouldn't it be so empowering if journalists were seeing their work that way and thinking of their own role, but that to have that collaborative experience? We have to be able to see one another and speak the same language. We had two folks at the table from the same news organization, one in product one in news, and it was interesting to observe know how the communication gaps can exist. I think the phrase was, it's it's not a silo if you didn't even know the silo existed. So even in places where we're being incredibly intentional about collaborating about speaking across difference about seeing that we're doing the same work in many cases, we have a lot of language to learn.
I love the something that Katrina was saying but product is everybody's job but audience is everybody's business.
We were noticing that. I mean, maybe again, if everyone felt enthusiastic about product, maybe this won't be a problem but just what obstacle maybe it's certain bosses, maybe communication is missing in like the chain of hierarchy of things are something that's happening, not everyone's getting the memo about product, even well intentioned from the product team, perhaps
due to execution. What's the thought line?
Yeah, so if everyone's excited about product, then these conversations won't be they just they will come to feel like not outside your conversations, right.
I often think though, it goes beyond excitement or interest. That many journalism organizations the products that we create, the journalism that we create, requires a degree of efficiency and habit to do things quickly and accurately. These are machines that produce a certain result. And so when we expect the people to change their behavior without changing the systems that they're working in, we have problems we really do need to be addressing the tooling, the workflow, the things that we create, taking away some of the work that we've always done. When we recognize it isn't doing its job anymore, and providing some level of space in people's lives and work. I often think it's not necessarily the will. It is the structure that we've created and we need to do work to recreate it together and that's challenging on deadlines. So approaching the work with the degree of empathy for the work that's happening every day in our organizations, I think is crucial. Go ahead, Amanda. So
I just wanted to mention something that Dan said over here, that sort of really interesting conversation among us about we also need to come to a common understanding of what product is, is it facing the audience? Is it an internal tool? Is it both? Of course we know. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, the answer is well, but yeah, absolutely. There's not an understanding among the newsroom or even among product groups about what's considered a product so if you're organizing just something so you can track your planning is that a product is a website of products. And so starting from a common basis of understanding is something that we also need to establish across our groups.
Great any last words before we close in?
It's more about what she was saying. And I when I was introducing myself, I'm an engagement manager for the climate team at AP. And I was just telling them that I do product already. I have a workflow I trade with but I want to do a newsletter for the climate team. You know, I mean, I have that workflow, but I don't call myself a product manager or anything because my title is audience engagement. So there's one thing between product and audience engagement that I don't know for me, it has to click more. It has to be like more tied. Because of course, Brooke is about audience and also our audience engagement is about our audience. Of course, it's not when you think about our audience or engagement or something like that. You only think social media, but no, no, no, no, he's definitely more than that. And I don't know how to solve this. Because every time that someone asked me, but what is our audience engagement or what is what is engagement? I have to give a long explanation about what it is because it's not like oh, I'm a reporter. So I'm just like a little tire of that. And I just want to say that we should just embrace that is complex. You know, and that or business are complex. I mean, the business the media, business is complex. So what do we want to do is complex, so let's just like give a long explanation and just like, you know, be comfortable with that, because sometimes I feel like Oh, I'm sorry, because I need to give you a long explanation. No, I mean, it. It's complex. So let me just explain what it is so you can understand it. And yeah, I don't know. It's just like, give long explanations about what we do. And I don't know. Like, it's just like, embrace the complexity I don't know.
And repeat, repeat, repeat.
usually don't have simple answers. And this is clearly a complex problem.
Thank you for this lovely discussions. We wanted to spend the last like five minutes just with some ideas about where to find product talent. So we have some ideas, and we wanted to invite you to share your ideas because we definitely don't have the full solution here. So places to look for product talent, the MPAA Slack channel and job board. This is a shameless plug of course. But it is where they you know, it's full of people and they are trying to work with you. So take a look. to of course you can hire from other industries and use your mission and, you know, saving democracy etc. To attract people from other industries. Why because that's where the the product talent is mostly in other industries, not in journalism, but it's gonna be super hard, right? Why? Because you're not gonna be able to pay as much as tech and you're not offering a career path that's very attractive, right? But if you do find these unicorns, right, and they exist, there's not very many, we could say we like brainstorm a little bit like what would be a good example. I don't know if you all know muise SIADH. He was at the intercept, where he started as a program developer and he at Wikimedia Foundation, then he was at intercept us at ProPublica. And then we thought about Luciana Cardoso in Brazil who was at IBM and is in journalism. So if you if you capture one of those unicorns, you know treat them well like make it keep it interesting you know, it's not just the mission it has you have to give them like a freedom to do their their work etc. Other otherwise they will leave like more years left. You went back to Mozilla. He's no longer in Charles and Luciana, we still have
her Yes. And I don't think she's going to leave us but bless her,
cross your fingers. You can try to poach from other newsrooms. Everybody's trying to do that.
We wanted to be honest like that's what usually happens, so didn't want to avoid it.
But if you're not the New York Times, I mean, it's gonna be hard. Like, you know, are you really offering something different than another newsroom? So the real idea here is that you can grow talent from this your own newsroom because really, it's already there. We're talking about people in audience for instance, just to to illustrate this point, we did we looked at let's look at the title of the people who, who attended the NPS Summit. This is the annual conference by the news product Alliance. And yeah, sure you have like Product Manager titles. But you have like audience you have journalists and editors, you have people in Bridge roles. So these are like hidden product thinkers right there. And just for fun, we did the same with the people who attended the almost 200 people that attended product immersion, for the small newsrooms training over the years. And as you see, like there's a ton of different titles, and those are only the big ones like they small little slices of this doughnut or like China coverage person, you know, like we have very weird titles like this and they're all product thinkers. So I think it would pay off to look at your org chart and be like, where are my product? Thinkers hiding out? Yeah, yeah, somewhere. There's somewhere in your newsrooms right now. And then if you so if you identify some product talent in your newsroom, support them with some skill buildings, you're offering them coaching and mentoring, encourage them to participate in when a DNPS summit other other communities around product and just say Is there anybody that has an idea that has actually been been able to either grow or hire product people or have gotten a job or has a story to tell around that or an idea
thanks just an example from I think the this idea of nurturing internal talent there was someone on the my business development team at the Atlantic who was very interested in product and I could tell he was sharp and he was a good thinker and had been a great partner to the product team and the things that he was deputized to work with us on and he came just separately you know, when I was little one on one to ask about, like, do you guys do what you guys do? And maybe I can you know, sit in on some of your planning sessions and started inviting him to meetings. But most importantly, and one thing that's not on here is try to find an opportunity to give them a product to do or a project to do. And it was, you know, one of these small projects in my team that never really got prioritized, but it was a fun thing and was interesting and had definitely some upside. And I asked him, I was like, Well, why don't you just be our point person on that and you can, you know, convene the meetings and set the agenda and figure out the roadmap to get this thing built and we will give you an engineer and we'll get it built. And it was just finding like a kind of self contained way that wouldn't that wasn't like crazy high stakes that everyone was looking at but was a good way to give him a proof of concept example of like, being the lead person on that. And as long as I was there that you know, we we continued to have meetings throughout to make sure he had someone to to check his work with and make sure the right people were in the room and the agenda felt right. But he did a great job. And that was like kind of the first example of him understanding that he did like that kind of work, and he did want to pursue it more. And he's currently in that bizdev role, but he's looking for entry level product jobs. If anyone is hiring. Happy to recommend.
That's an excellent idea. Thank you. Anybody else?
Yeah. So in my world, I come more from the data journalism world and it's very easy to see who's doing the data journalism that I'm interested in, because I can just go to all these different websites and say, Oh, that's a really amazing graphic slash interaction slash product and their name is on it. And I can be like, Oh, I should keep track of that person. And I wonder and maybe this exists and forgive me if it does, but some maybe when I did hire, when I was hiring, we were looking at product people for some of the open weather jobs we had and I noticed that a lot of the people who had more product backgrounds a were often looking for much more money than we had. And I'm that The New York Times, so that's saying something. And the other thing was that a lot of them didn't really have a portfolio online in a way that made sense to me. Like they had resume but I couldn't go look at it. I couldn't see like what their thought process was like, Is this a fit for us? And I wonder if there's some assistance that might be helpful to other people and say, Hey, if you're looking for product jobs, here's a website that you would represent, you know, the kinds of things and I don't know what that would be. I know what it is for data journalism, but I would have appreciated it as a hiring manager for product stuff. It's
both excellent points. But that's an excellent point. Just to share a bit of the news product management certification course, we are focusing on trying to help this emerging product fingers, and there's more advanced for the fingers to build those portfolios, like how do we showcase our work without the byline and we know how important buy lines are in the journalism industry. So thank you for sharing that anyone else wants to
this is really more an experience that I'd like to put forward and hear what people have to say about it, but I proposed a hybrid team didn't for a project. And the product group went in on it, but it was a very traditional product group. And so when I presented my hires, and I'd said I need a hybrid sort of person here, someone who's been in a newsroom but also understands product or has a basic understanding. They were really, really hesitant to to look at my the people I wanted to hire because they did not have the same formal training and maybe the way they defined it because we're all changing the definition of how a product works. They didn't trust it and so they really did resist it against hiring people who did not have the same training. Background and language that they were using. So how do you how would you overcome that? Not to to hijack the conversation, but I'm kind of curious. How do you break down that silo?
Well does it have like stop there for a second session that we are at time, thank you so much for being here. It was really fun to brainstorm with you. And thank you for the great ideas and have a great end of our day.