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Shoyoroku #20: Dizang’s “Most Intimate” | Otter.ai

Shoyoroku #20: Dizang’s “Most Intimate”

John Pulleyn39min

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

00:01

This is day six of this. July, 2025, seven day seshin. We're going to take up another koan today. This is from the shoyo roku, translated as both sometimes the book of serenity and sometimes the book of equanimity, both are wonderful, rich concepts in Buddhism. I

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

00:45

The word equanimity is in other Buddhist traditions, is considered one of the four divine abodes, and rather than trying to define that, just the other three besides equanimity are metta, loving kindness, karuna, compassion, mu DITA, sympathetic joy and equanimity is considered the highest of the four. Evenness, utter evenness of mind, non reactivity. This is number 20, and it's called di Zhang's most intimate. Di Zhang asked FAI yen, where are you going? Fayan said, I am wandering on pilgrimage. Di Zhang said, What are you on pilgrimage for? Fayan said, I don't know. Di Zhang said, not knowing is the most intimate, and that that FA Yen was suddenly enlightened.

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

02:12

So we'll start with some biographical information about di Zhan. He's listed in this book, Zen Chinese heritage under a different name. This is one of the things that can be quite confusing about when you get into a deep dive of these, these masters, especially from China, is they would sometimes have two or even three different names at different times in their lives. I'm not even going to say what is listed under, because in our koan koan, we're using the name di Zhang. So that's what we'll go with today. Di Zhang lived in the Tang dynas dates are about the mid eight hundreds to the mid nine hundreds.

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

03:11

Classical records say that from early childhood, he could speak very well and would not eat meat. Maybe that's true. It could also be the influence of later generations who wanted to put a special shine on a master like this, and would say that, let's just, let's just take it for what is is he would not eat meat. I've heard actually from many parents that their children when they're young, they don't want to eat meat and then and that changes as they get older. I

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

04:05

uh, here again, we see the same pattern as the Masters I read from previously in the seshin. At first, he closely followed the teachings of the Vinaya, but later declared that just guarding against breaking the precepts did not equal true. Renunciation wasn't enough for him. He didn't become a monk just to stay between the rails of morality, but was looking for something more. He then set off to explore the teachings of the Zen school. He first started with Shui Fong Seppo, but didn't get as far as he wanted to in. But then shoifang disciple Xuan Chah is said to have brought deeds on to full awakening. The the old records indicate that when the following, following exchange between teacher and student occurred, all of de Zhang's doubts were erased, and this is the the incident. Xuan Xia questioned de Zhang, saying, in the three realms, there is only mind. How do you understand this? De Zhan pointed to a chair and said, What does the master call that? Xuan Xia said, a chair di Zhan said, Then the master can't say that in the three worlds there is only mind.

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

05:59

Xuan Xia said, I say that it is made from bamboo and wood. What do you say it's made from? Di Zhang said, I also say it's made from bamboo and wood. Xuan Cha said, I've searched across the great Earth for a person who understands the Buddha Dharma, but I haven't found one. Maybe that means until now, because, again, this this dialog, is what led to de Zhang's enlightenment. I

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

06:47

de Zhang entered the hall now, now he's a teacher, and addressed the monks, saying, if you want to come face to face with the essential mystery of our order, here it is. There's no other special thing. If it is something else, then bring it forth and let's see it. If you can't show it, then forget about it.

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

07:22

Very famous refrain in Zen, nothing special or just become ordinary. Because when you really become ordinary, it's something far more than ordinary.

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

07:54

Later in that same talk, in the monks Hall, de Zhang said, you've stored up a bunch of sounds, forms, names and words inside your minds, You prattle that I can do this, or I'm good at figuring out that. But actually, what can you do? What can you figure out, if it weren't all sounds and forms, names and words, then how will you remember them or figure them out?

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

08:36

There is frequent mention in the Sutras of a coupling of words, name and form, and it's in the context of pointing out that we are deceived by our perception of Reality, by forms, each of which has a different name, so we Learn our vocabulary, tree, crow, grass, cat, tails, fan and John, Jennifer, and these names for everything reinforce the idea that reality is fragmented. It's just that one side we learn differentiation. You it, and it's reinforced every hour of our lives because of language, using different names for different forms, different people, different things, different political parties, different countries. These different ethnicities and races, and so it's it's a hard slog to see the other side of the coin, which is the realm that is beyond name and form, the essential, as we often say in Zen i

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

10:31

He continues, the wind blows and the pine makes a sound. A frog or a duck makes a sound. Why don't you go out and listen to those things and figure them out? If everywhere there are meaningful sounds and forms, then how much meaning can be ascribed to this old monk? There's no doubt about it. Sounds and forms assault us every moment. Do you directly face them or not? If you face them directly, then your diamond solid concept of self will melt away.

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

11:19

I think face them may be an adequate enough translation. How would I know? But I would say the point is to see into these sounds and forms, see beyond the surface of them, beyond the word

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

12:01

that's really what's going on with these basic questions, like, who am I? What is this? It's hearing sound, seeing forms or MU What is it? Really? Can we see the inside of it. I

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

12:40

it. Of course, we can, through enough concentration, enough persistence, we can turn this world of names and forms and sounds inside out and get an absolutely revolutionary understanding of this world we live in you.

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

13:31

A monk asked di Zhang, what is di Zhang? Single phrase. These kinds of questions are just ways that the monks would in the big assembly of hundreds of monks, they would come up with these questions just to see how the master would reply. What is di Zhang? Single phrase di Zhang said, if I tell you, it will turn into two phrases I

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

14:07

I guess, what is deeds, house style house is rendering meaning the the style of training, the monastery or the center, you would say it has a has a has us as a style. When sometimes it's called the wind of the house. Different centers have different winds. What is deeds on house? Style? Deeds on, I can't tell you. The monk said, why not? Di Zhang said, because it's my house style. I.

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

15:00

The fish doesn't know it's in water.

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

15:12

De Zhang saw a monk approach. He held up his whisk and said, do you understand the monk said, Thank you for your compassionate instruction. Master design said, You see me raise the whisk and you say, I'm instructing you. When you see the mountains and rivers each day, don't they instruct you? Another time a monk came and di Zen held up his whisk, same thing, and the monk shouted in praise and he bowed. Di Zhang said, when you saw me raise the whisk, you bowed and shouted. Why is it that when someone holds up a broom, you don't shout in praise? He seemed to be man of great humility. He just doesn't want to be special. He doesn't want people heaping on him. There's some kind of special thing, as if we all don't have the same thing that di Zen has essentially.

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

16:30

Di Zhang asked a monk from, where do you come? The monk said, from Zhao. Zhu di Zang said, What did you bring with you? The monk said, I didn't bring anything with me. De Zhang said, Why are you deceiving people? I

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

17:17

so he died at the age of 61 and was given the posthumous title Zen master. True response. It's Kind of cool response in

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

18:09

and then the other character in today's koan is FAI yen. His japanized name, by the way, is Hogan, which some of you will remember from the Mumonkan and yes, he was a disciple of di Zhang. He was well educated as a young man, he'd studied the Confucian classics. He became ordained at the age of 20. He

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

18:46

later, he was on a pilgrimage with some other monks, and FA yen and his friends were sidetracked by a snowstorm and forced to stay at the DI Zhang monastery. And that's where Dizon the master was, and that's what led up to today's koan,

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

19:22

where di Zhang asked him, Where are you going? I'm wandering on pilgrimage. What are you on pilgrimage for? I don't know. Not knowing is the most intimate. It's, I think of some significance that it was in a snowstorm that they had this exchange. Maybe everything was whited out. Couldn't see anything, couldn't hear anything. This. Some this book, Zen, Chinese heritage, then picks up at the end of our koan and continues when the snow was gone. The three monks bade farewell and started to depart. Di Zen accompanied them to the gate and asked, I've heard you say several times that the three realms are only mind and the myriad dharmas are only consciousness. Myriad dharmas means all things. Dean Zhan then pointed to a rock lying on the ground by the gate and said, so you say that this rock is insane. So do you say that this rock is inside or outside of mind? Faiyan said, inside. Di Zhang said, How can a pilgrim carry such a rock in his mind while on pilgrimage? Dumbfounded, fa yen couldn't answer. He put his luggage down at di Zhang's feet and asked him to clarify the truth each day for the next month or so. Fa yen spoke about the Dharma with di Zhang and demonstrated his understanding. But di Zhang would always say the Buddha Dharma isn't like that. Finally, fayan said, I've run out of words and ideas. Good sign di Zhang said, if you want to talk about Buddha Dharma, everything you see embodies it. And at these words, fayan experienced great enlightenment. So that's the second one here, recorded in this same the same day with the two of them talking. I've run out of words and ideas. Excellent.

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

22:15

And then fayan became de Zhang Dharma heir. He went on to establish one of the five schools of Zen from China, five lineages,

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

22:39

the first monastery where phi yen taught his students there were said to have numbered up to 1000

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

22:52

the school he established incorporated elements from the Hua yen School of Buddhism. It's another, another. Yeah. School not quite the same as Zen. Has a lot of overlap, a lot of similarities, without the great emphasis on sitting. And it says here that this yen school included the principle in all things manifested in

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

23:24

I'm reminded of the of a koan, where the monk asks, what is the highest principle? And the reply was, each branch of coral reflects the bright moon.

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

23:49

Each one of us is that branch of coral, a branch of coral and

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

24:55

here's just one or two dialogs involved. Involving fayen. He asked a monk, did you come by boat or by land? The monk replied, by boat. Fayyan said, Where is the boat? Fayan said, Excuse me. The monk said, the boat is in the river. And then the monk left, and fayen turned to a monk standing to one side and asked, did that monk who just, who was just here, have the eye or not? There's another koan in the shoyu Roku, where is the boat? The boat is in the river.

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

25:49

Most ordinary thing i

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

26:14

A monk asked fayan, what is the ultimate teaching of all Buddhas, all enlightened ones, fayan said, you have it too.

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

26:32

When fayan became Abbot of Qing Liang temple, he addressed the monks, students of Zen, need only act according to conditions to realize the way. When it's cold, they're cold. When it's hot, they turn on the air. No when it's hot, when it's hot, they're hot. If you must understand the meaning of Buddha nature, then just pay attention to what's going on. There is no shortage of old and new methods. Haven't you heard about Shi Tao? He exclaimed, understanding that all things are the self. This is what all the ancient holy ones realized. Shi Tao also said, the holy ones did not have a self, nor was there anything that was not their selves.

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

27:38

Faiyan says the mind of the great sage of India, there's no need to go beyond this phrase. Within it is what is always put forth as the teaching of our school. All of you should understand that the myriad beings are your own self, and that across the great earth, there isn't a single thing that can be observed. This is referring to the essential emptiness of all things, and then shit tou also admonished, don't pass your days and nights in vain. I

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

28:33

so this phi Yen has 63 Dharma heirs. It says that though his school was an influential one during his lifetime, and for a while afterward, it died out after five generations. And after he died, he received the posthumous title great Zen master Dharma eye. Well, there's a lot of biographical material leading up to a fairly short koan, but let's see if we can break down this koan. I

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

29:26

did Zhan, where are you going? I'm wandering on pilgrimage. Remember, this is the setting of this was the snow storm. What do you want pilgrimage for? I don't know. And then the coup de grace, not knowing is most intimate.

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

29:54

You could say that, that every, every of the. Several main practices of Zen are meant to deliver us to this vast realm that is beyond knowing

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

30:18

we are dominated throughout our lives by knowing, by our mind, is scored with this and that, before and after, right and wrong. But there is a whole other realm I in Zen practice, we're not trying to just see that other realm, to see it as not separate from the realm of knowing and doing. The realm of non differentiation or emptiness, is not separate from the realm of differentiation or form phenomena. It's all very reasonable. We can mostly understand that, but it doesn't change us. It doesn't really transform us until we have realized it made it real, embodied It this non dual nature of reality,

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

31:31

not knowing.

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

31:41

Loud. Tze, the great Taoist sage, said, When darkness is at its darkest, there is the gateway to all spiritual insights.

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

31:56

We're emptying, emptying, and never more so than in sesshin, from hours and hours of sitting we're emptying where we're bailing out the boat. Emptying means cleaning, purifying, restoring the original purity of the mind, letting go of what gets in the way of our seeing the eternal

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

32:32

here's a description of of the the method of a koan, how it works. This is by a Japanese teacher, Zen teacher, I think of the last, maybe the last century. Suppose here is a completely blind person who trudges along leaning on his stick. And depending on his intuition, the role of the koan is to mercilessly take the stick away from him and to push him down after turning him around. Now, the blind man has lost his sole support and will not know where to go or how to proceed. He will be thrown into the abyss of despair in this same way, the koan will mercilessly take away all our intellect and knowledge. In short, the role of the koan is not to lead us to awakening easily, but on the contrary, to make us lose our way and drive us to despair. In

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

33:51

FA Yen was on was on pilgrimage. This was a standard feature of monastic life. And in the Tang Dynasty, and much later, probably as well, where they would take a couple three months, months at a time, and wander around seeking out other teachers. I

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

34:25

If di Zhang had asked, What are you on pilgrimage for? And phi Yen had said, Well, I'm on pilgrimage to learn the principles of the Buddha Dharma wouldn't have been the same dialog again, with these, with these koans, we see the words. They're very simple, but we we're not there. We're not We're not standing before phi yen when he says, I don't know. I. I that would have revealed so much to de Zhang, the teacher this, I don't know.

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

35:14

This is no doubt. It's nothing like the ordinary. I don't know that most people use all that all their lives. I don't know what the what the capital of Uruguay is. I don't know the table of elements. It has nothing to do with Zen practice.

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

36:00

Design that knows that fayan is ready. He's right there. He's been proceeding toward the obscure and unknown through the still obscure and unknown. Good description of seshin

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

36:33

said Master Dogen said, coming going the water fowl Leave No Trace, nor do they need a guide.

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

36:48

Our guide is the practice we're working on, the breath, the koan shikantaza. It's all we need, and we need trust that will be led just perfectly through by holding to this koan or other practice,

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

37:18

there's always could be share this great backstory to these koans, FAI yen. Who knows what, what he's been what he's been through before this experience of awakening? I

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

37:59

these this last day or so of seshin, we have the strongest opportunity we've had so far to to find ourselves in complete unity with the practice we're working on. It's not an easy thing when we've spent our whole lives caught in the world of name and form of differences, this and that, future, past, self and other. It's not easy to let go of all that, and strictly speaking, we don't have to let go. That's not our job to let go of our thoughts. It's to become one with the practice we're working on. The practice will do the letting go for us. We don't have to do two things. We don't have to let go and become one. Just become one with the practice is consider mu or whatever your practice is, as your agent, turn it over to your practice. You

Roshi Bodhin Kjolhede

39:31

our time is up. We'll stop and recite the four vows i.

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