Amber, hello and welcome to the thoughtful counselor, a podcast dedicated to bringing you innovative and evidence based counseling and mental health content designed to enhance your life, whether you're a clinician, supervisor, educator, or a person wanting to learn more about the counseling process. We are here to demystify mental health through conversations with a wide range of counseling professional powerhouses. In each episode, you'll learn about current issues in the field, new science and real life lessons learned from the therapy room. Thank you for joining us on our journey through the wide world of counseling. There's a lot to explore here, so sit back, take a deep breath, and let's get started.
Thoughtful counselor. Listeners, you are in for a treat today. My name is Theo burns. I'm one of the contributing hosts, and I am here with my good friend and colleague, Dr Jeannie Stanley. Dr Stanley, welcome to the thoughtful
counselor. Thank you for having me. Dr burns, so we are
going to talk a lot today about the admissions process, which I'm really excited about, one of my favorite topics. I know mine too. While we have you? Can you give our listeners a little bit of information about who you are, how you came to specialize in the area of admissions and also graduate school coaching? Sure, my
background is as a psychologist and director of two counseling programs over the years, been on lots of admissions processes at different universities, consulted with different universities about their admissions process, but for me, my absolute favorite thing of all the years working in academia, and I keep my appointment, but I'm not in it on a full time basis. So because at some point I realized I really loved helping students succeed. And out of that, it was I realized there were so many people making decisions about grad school and beginning about where to go that had weren't necessarily thought through, and I wanted to make a process where that could be thought through. And so I literally was out at dinner one night with a friend and wrote on a napkin grad school coaching, and seven years later, I came across a napkin again, that's what I want to do.
And so now you're the executive director of watershed coaching and consultation services, which has a huge component of coaching and consultation for people who are interested in graduate school, whether that be people in their undergraduate studies who are thinking about a graduate degree, people who are in a master's program in counseling, who are thinking about a doctoral program,
absolutely so. I have a secondary company called grad school coaching, and it's about helping, helping you get in, but as importantly, get out. See that can be a difficult situation for some people as well, particularly doctoral programs, where they're longer process and people can get lost, or they can be faced with circumstances in front of them in a doctoral program that'd be pretty intense and difficult.
Yeah. Okay, so I want to hear a little bit about the why. Ah, the
why is the place that anyone thinking about grad school? And when I say grad school, I mean masters or doctorate. The why is the part we need to start? And few people start there, besides the why of because I want to be able to say Dr Stanley when I go to a restaurant and make a reservation, that, to me, is not enough reason to get you through the process. Number one, um, or to spend all the time years or financial has got to be more of the why. And once you kind of figure out the whys, what are they and why did, what? Why? Why did you go and apply to graduate school?
Yeah, no, I think the whys for me were about wanting a variety of different work experiences, training in a variety of different areas, knowing that a Masters would allow me to do some clinical work, but that maybe a doctoral program might open up different avenues for me around research and teaching and consulting and supervision.
So you you almost don't know others options until you start talking to people. So a good thing to do early and often are to do informational interviews. And by that I mean emailing, texting, calling friends of friends, friends of your family, friends of of your your siblings. What has their experience been like in graduate school? Yes, now there's a caveat to that. Don't necessarily talk to someone. Let's say you want to go there to. University of Cincinnati, and you know that your uncle Jeff went there, and Uncle Jeff said, I had a great time. Uncle Jeff probably went there 32 years ago. Yeah, so that's not going to be your best indicator. I'm glad that you had a great time, but you need current, a recent alum, current and recent programs change. They cycle over the years, so entire faculty can leave in that time period, right? So don't get caught up in what your your father, your grandfather did, or your your mother, your your sister's boyfriend, yeah, one, but as I say, best ways is to talk to people go in with a set of questions ahead of time. So I always give my clients, for example, a list of information interview questions so they can choose any of them they want, and I hope add their own questions as well. Sure, but you don't want to get to the information interview and say, Tell me about your career. Got it. That's and then that's the end of the conversation. Got it. Got it, okay, it can be so broad based, yeah.
So as I began to start to think about whether or not graduate school in counseling is for me, and that could be grad school as a undergrad thinking masters. It could also be doctoral programs as a master student, when I start to engage in some exploration, yes, what are the tips that you have for people who are wanting to start thinking about is the next step in my graduate education? Is this the right time?
Is this the right time? We'll start with that question, but that person makes space to figure out what they need. Now, what's need down the way, you could have two, two people who are 21 years old and have completely different trajectories that they've already had in their experiences, and that one might be the perfect time to go in other it will be better to wait. So making that space, whether you as the student trying to figure that out as an undergrad, making space go over to the counseling center or to the Career Services Center and make an appointment to talk with someone for maybe three sessions about that, it to make that space to talk for maybe a total of a little under three hours about your future. Way worth it, if you think about the amount of money, yeah, and time you're going to put into this, that's it. Yeah. So it's hard to say based on the age people like you know, should I wait? We all start green in this field, we start green in different ways. We might have lots of life experiences. By 22 we might honestly have very little, yeah, and it's almost hard to know it when you're there, when you're in it, it's hard to know what you don't know. Yeah, so having that time to talk to someone in a open professional counseling relationship about what that's like, not to mention you get experience being in your first, maybe second, maybe third, maybe fourth, experience of being in counseling and what that is like.
What do you say to the master student who is going to graduate in June who likes being a clinician? Should I go on for a doctoral degree? Like I really like being in school, but I'm not sure. Should I just, you know, take my masters and work for a while? What do you say to that person in terms of their exploration?
You see, there's not, there's not a rush. It's not like doctoral programs say, No, we only want to write out of their masters. I didn't know one program many years ago, who would say that that program's not even in existence anymore? Bye, bye. They were so rigid and the requirements, think there is something about I'll just use a metaphor of learning an instrument and then going and practicing and playing it. Yeah, before you you join the symphony or the rock band, whatever it is. So I don't think it's, I mean, it might get difficult. You might have other life responsibilities that you're going but that's going to happen, yeah, regardless of how Yeah. Do you remember the board game life? I loved life. Of course. You too. I loved it. You remember the song?
Thank you, Amber,
I don't. Yeah, that was it. The board game started, and you go off, and at one point you would either go forward to get a to go into work, or to the right, a little bit of a different avenue to go to school, college, I think, yeah, but you come out pretty close to the same place. And I think there's a point to that you don't have. There's not one set path that you have. Oh my gosh. But don't we tell that to students
all the time? Such a great metaphor when we think about that board game and how you can end up around the same place, you just take different paths to get there. But I love what you're. Thing, which is what we often do, is we tell students, this is the way that you have to go,
and particularly academics. And I'm talking about faculty and advisors. That's right. I think people in academia, faculty advisors, that was their experience, yes. So that's what they know totally. And they kind of send it on. Sometimes it's the one, yes, the one and only way for sure, and there are many ways
to get there, yeah. And so if you are a listener right now that's in a faculty role, whether you're a advisor or a adjunct faculty person who's listening to this episode and thinking about your role as a mentor, just again, wanting to affirm the multiple different paths and ways. And as counselors, we often do that really well in our clinical work. And so we just need to kind of make sure that that philosophy is entering so many other roles that we have.
Yeah, and for the people you're talking about right now that you're speaking to, I encourage them to bring in students of varied background. There was never a year I would just take all people that came from a counseling program. I mean, honestly, some of our best students we've had, we've had people who were chefs, we've had people who were camera operators for Major League Baseball games. We have, think that's so important to to add, to bring in that variety and life experience. Yeah, so don't. So if you're advising, be open, and if you're a student with a different background, and quote the traditional go for it, talk about the taking, the skills that you have, the transferable skills, skills you learned being a chef, and what did you learn that you would take, that you'd be successful in your doctoral studies or master studies. Explain that to the person at the admissions interview. That's your job to talk about the transfer of skills.
Okay, so let's move along the application process timeline. And so I've done some soul searching. I've started to think a little bit about why now, and what are the best kinds of programs for me? And I start to research, okay, so for example, I'm like, Okay, I'm really interested in doctoral programs and counselor education and supervision, okay. And so I started looking online. How do I find the best program for me?
You try not to get caught in a common pitfalls that happen in the selection process, because that's what you're talking about. How do I select programs to apply? Right? Not? How do I select where to go? I use a metaphor. If I'm going to maybe I want a spouse. I'm going to date different people. I'm not just going to date one person. Same with graduate programs, you're going to want to try out different programs. Yes, and the biggest pitfall I see these days are a student saying, fall in love with a website about the program. And you know this from your work, but we often don't have control over the websites. So someone doing marketing for the university or IT people deciding what goes into that we might have a little say in it, but that, you know, it could be flashy, and that has nothing to do with the program. You have a great program and allows the website or vice versa. So your job as the applicant is to go beyond just what's on paper. Yes, we used to say, awesome. How do you do that? Talk to current students. Call and say, I'm interested in XYZ program. So one or two current students I could talk to, or one or two recent alum. Now, some programs have that. They're like, Oh, yes, here's students. Or we never do that. If they don't do that, you know, you do a little homework, right? Who knows anyone at University of Wisconsin, blah, blah, blah, and or at Ohio State, whatever, and start doing the work to find that out. But there are easier ways to going to open houses. Going to have you heard idealist is a an organization, nonprofit, that often has in the in the early fall, online or in person, grad school fairs. So you can walk into a large auditorium, large, large hall, and there'll be 80 different programs there. So you get to go over and talk to University of Baltimore and social work admissions people. That's invaluable. Our admissions people would go out and then come back, and I would get a call saying, you really gotta look at this student. They were impressed. It was all get out. So I take the time then to when does applications come through look for that student, because if this admissions counselor, who sees a lot of people was impressed, that makes a big difference.
So I'm actually hearing your. Recommendations for two different groups of people, and I just really want to make that explicit. So the first is, if you are applying, really speaking to people that are in the program, and that can be an admissions counselor or current students, right? And if you are a faculty person, really connecting with the admissions department to say, hey, you've been speaking to a lot of people. I'm not just going to look at applications or written documents. I'm going to go talk to an admissions counselor and boost it out
to you, yes, all the time. And as as busy as we were, I would try to go out to three or four admissions when they would do recruiting a year, because I would go out and learn also what students needed. Then I can't assume that when I started doing this, however many years ago, that's same needs the students have. They changed. If I'm in there and I'm talking to in an afternoon, a day 40 undergrads, I'm learning a lot.
Okay, and so you're actually telling me also that as a new faculty person, yes, one of the best ways to kind of learn about what the needs of students are is really helpful, is to actually go to admissions fairs yourself as a faculty person
volunteer, and they they will literally blink at you like you're willing to go. You're really busy. You have a faculty Yes, because there's not a better learning experience. I mean, the times I would spend a lot of the work I've put into grad school coaching, not experience came from being on the road with seasoned admissions counselors or directors and having them tell me about all their experiences and how how decisions are made.
Cool, got it. So let's talk about, going back to the admissions timeline. Let's talk a little bit about, as you're starting to think about that process, and you're thinking about what you need to apply right? Both kind of internally, as in, do my values match, but also externally, in terms of what are the materials I need to start gathering
good so there's one step before that, which is for you, when you're doing a selection, I'm going to I'm going to apply to this many programs. Let's just pick a general number. I'm going to apply to 10 programs, keeping really good notes for you, both objective notes. These are my due dates. They want it, because they're all different due dates. This is what they want. They want. They want the Jerry's. They don't want to they want to subject keep those notes, but then also have another sheet of paper on your laptop, whatever, where you're taking subjective notes. What did it feel like when you were talking to the family? What do you feel like when you went in, sat in on a class, got it. You need all of that, because all of a sudden, as much you think they won't, they start blending.
So you might be applying to seven different programs and think, oh my gosh, which one had the faculty person? Yeah, that that wrote that one paper that I really liked, versus which one had the practicum site that I really was interested in. And so you're saying take as many notes as possible about programs
or what you were looking for in those first interviews on your end might be different
than later on. Awesome. Yeah, and listeners will be linking Dr Stanley's website to the episode page, so you'll be able to take a look at some of the resources that she's talking about. Let's go to what else I need to apply in terms of once I start the application process. So I say, here are my seven programs. Here's what I want to apply to. They're all in counselor Ed and supervision, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Wait. What do I need?
So I must imagine an Excel list of the programs, but then across the top, but you need to have an up to date resume, not necessarily CV. Curriculum Vitae means that you've been doing this a long time, and, you know, there's a lot more detail, but if you're starting this out, or if you're 51 and coming back and doing this, you might not have a lot of experience in counseling, so you want to maybe pull it back, make it into resume form. You need transcripts. Transcripts take time. They get lost, they cost money. So start those processes early. The paperwork that needs to go in, you need to think about very carefully, who are your letters of recommendation. So sometimes you're going for people be like, well, I want, I want such and such, because they're a famous psychologist. And do they know you? Well, I had them undergrad. What class? Intro to psych. How many people in that 300 do they know you in that crickets, nothing there. So you it's not by the name, yeah, it's by a letter of someone who knows you and can write a letter with details about your strengths and why you would be. Good candidate for grad school. It's not about to name. I can't get that through people enough.
So when you're thinking about letters, let's say I am a master's student and I'm apply to a doctoral program in counselor Ed. Should I ask only people from my grad program? Should I ask my clinical supervisor?
Yes, it's best. It's usually they require one to two from your academic background, from from a faculty member. But then they really want to hear from people, from supervise you. That would be terrific. There's some people you don't want to invite you don't want to invite your therapist to write a letter for you, because that's a little too you know, there's an unearned intimacy, as I like to say about that. You want people that know you from your professional stance. That could be that being said, it could be someone who knew you professionally you worked with outside of counseling. Maybe you worked for seven years at the Y YMCA, and in that time, You did amazing work, working with children in the program over the years. That's worth a letter from someone. Again, they don't have a PhD next their name, that is okay. Do they know you? Can they write a strong letter? The thing I beg my clients to always do is not asked. Dr burns, can you write me a letter? It's Dr burns, can you write me a strong letter of recommendation?
So that's the actual phrasing that you use. Can you write me a strong letter?
Yes, got it. And clients will ask people that question. Some will say it gives them an out. I can write your letter, but maybe I don't know you well enough to write you a strong one, or maybe I'm not the best person for this test. Gotcha, because some people just don't want to deal they're more passive in their approach, and they might just be like, Yes, I'll write you a letter, and we, on the receiving end admissions, get a letter that is so generic that pretty much it was a form letter, and that's not useful to anybody.
What about research experience? So yes, so many times students will wonder if they need research experience. Either, do I need research experience as an undergrad going into a master's program in counseling, or do I need research experience as a Master's student going into a doctoral program in counseling or
in the rare circumstances, and they're more rare going from undergrad to Doctor program, right? And I know many people think that they're just going to skip that, but that's a very difficult task, because if you're going to Doctor program, they want you to have a skill set that's already in place, so you hit the ground running. My question is, do you have any interest in doing research? Okay, Doctor programs, whether they're PhD or society, which is more practical, practice oriented program, there's going to be some research in there. If that doesn't, if that makes you unhappy or or if it makes you very excited, you want to know your kind, your stance, you might say, Well, I only even know because I've never done research. Then there's your answer. Undergrad, grad masters, take look for opportunities to be on a in a research project. Gain experience, if possible, start your sophomore, junior, senior years in college, so you can work with perhaps even one or two different people to see what that's like, or one or two different topics really helpful. You might be like, This is my favorite. This is not jam. Or you might be like, No, I don't want to do this. And how much better to find that out before you put all the time and effort into graduate studies. So very helpful if you're applying to a doctor program, really important. And wonder if you say, Well, I graduated five years ago and I didn't do it, then, am I? Am I out of luck? No, you might reach out to current faculty. Do there any research opportunities? Yeah, I just took on someone who they wanted to do more research, but more I was from a historical perspective. They like history and systems, so they're not in a program. But doesn't mean they can't work with someone. You can find that you can find it. It's not always paid, maybe paid, maybe not, but sure, get the experience. See if you even like
it when you think about the statement of purpose, which some program applications will call a statement, some will call an autobiography. Yes, an essay, right? A personal essay, yeah, what are your tips and tricks for navigating that essay?
I mean, that's, that's, that's a really great question. Those are often when I'm working with clients. I don't have a set, I don't know how, because they might come in with all different backgrounds. But often that can be an. Entire one meeting about the personal statement, because that's one opportunity to express who you are, and people going to be more apt to take that in. So you want that. You almost want to do the work ahead of time about what would be most important for me to know about you. So if I'm like theory, you want to apply your statement purpose. What are the I always say the three me's. What are three things you want that program when they read over to know about you? Because what you can do with the three me's is, you're then in the interview having your back pocket the answer to those three me's again, you can bring them up, maybe again when you meet with a student during the open house, you can talk about your three needs, so they get this ongoing understanding of who you are as someone with continuity. This is what is important to Theo burns got it also forces you to really go through your values and your values, same as, what do I want from a program and what am I bringing students? Forget that at least when I've done admissions, I'm also I'm looking at the student, but I'm looking at the group, yes. How will the group do well together?
So it's not just about whether I'm a fit for the program, but am I a fit for the cohort
correct? And that's hard for people to take in, because of how many, so many unknown variables in this when you could be a great student, but that doesn't mean you're the best student for a that program, or B, that cohort.
So let's say I'm a master's student and I'm applying to a doctoral program in counselor Ed. Great. I've obviously written a personal statement to get into the program that I'm in. Yes, what you're saying is, is a, don't use the same statement. Oh, please do not. And B, I should be updating with more understanding of those me variables, the three Bs that you talked about,
yes, those two years in your masters, or three years, or whatever it took, that should have really shaped and expanded, yeah. And if somebody's also made more specific what your needs are, sure, and that's what a doctoral program. Doctoral programs get smaller and smaller, and what you're studying and what you're more intense and more depth. So you want to have a sense of what you're going in for. And at the doctoral level, your advisor can often then become your dissertation advisor. And there can be a one on one connection to that, got it? I'm working with Dr X, who's working on this, and that's what I want to work on. It's just different in the Masters. It's more broad based, yeah, if you hand in a broad based Master's for your doctoral, oh, not
good. Got it. What if I am somebody who does not see a lot of people that look like me? Yes, in doctoral studies. And I really believe that I have what it takes. And I keep looking for role models as mentors, and I can't find them.
It's that is often more the case than you think it is. Yeah, you find them in other ways. So for me, for example, when I was starting out, I didn't see people who were similar my personal identities. So I find them in psychology, but I found two national associations I see, or state associations, and they also then became mentors for years to come. So you don't want to find someone so far away, but you need those people you can talk to. There's also people that will help you. They will also mentor you. I can't say enough that you hope that people in your program are open to all different socio cultural identities, for example, but that's not always the case. If it is great, and that's part of your decision making process, finding place that is open to who you are and supportive, but also having outside of your programs have people for years to come to support you.
And so what you're saying is, as a master student, if I'm interested in the counselor education program, my goal and my purpose could be, hey, I don't see people in my master's program faculty that look like me, but that doesn't mean that there are, they're not out there. And so I could look at national organizations, or even, let's say, state or regional organizations, to find individuals and say, Hey, I'm really interested in learning about your path. How did you decide to go this route to ensure that I am getting the mentorship and support that I need,
and knowing those people, they're also getting 20 other emails a month from people like you, so that might be overwhelming for them to respond to everybody. So they don't respond. Don't be thinking like, oh, they don't like me, or I shouldn't be doing this. They get overwhelmed to being as the role model. So you might have to find that within other people, it might be doctoral students too, who you can talk to them about why they went there in the process to. It there. Got it. There are other things in the admissions process we didn't talk about because we often like to forget things like standardized testing. Oh yeah, let's talk about those. Yes, Stan, it's it's there. And some programs have dropped it. Others are going back to it. So you really also have to be aware of the year you're applying what what the requirements are in that if you're required to take standardized testing, ie Jerry's, you need to study for them. This thought of, I'm just going to take them and see what happens. I mean, do you take an exam like that? Maybe, I hope not, but it's risky for two reasons. One, that often they can see your score depends on how you choose that. But two, if you don't do so well, it messes with your mind you want to study for the juries make the time to do it does and does your university, undergrad or grad, provide any support financially to or do they provide them themselves of study programs for standardized testing? Please do if it's expensive, you don't have to go for the goal package where someone comes on the phone and talks to you seven times a day about it, plenty of books that you can use and do a self study program, or better yet, find another person who's in the same situation and do either study group or just a check in group. It's something that's there and to say, I want to do it. I get that, but it's part of the process. You want to be putting in your best foot forward.
If the program that I have my heart set on because the chairs are optional. Should I take them?
And so on? What we learned about that program, often the optional is depends on the faculty. There might be two faculty who don't believe it should be optional, yeah, so if you're trying to work with them, and you didn't do it so you want to know who you're applying to.
Let's talk briefly about AI. What should AI's role be in the admissions process, including finding the program for me, helping me write my statement of purpose. What role should aI have?
If I would go back to the topic we had earliness of pitfalls. One of the newer ones is relying on AI. So I do this for a living, so I know the programs out there, and if I put and I do this because I'm a nerd, I'll put in I want to apply to a graduate program in counseling on East Coast. We'll just pick and what I see come up as options sometimes, who put in the money to get higher up in the rankings. The marketing aspect, you cannot rely on it. The other part, where the pitfall is people are having AI rate write their letters. When those statement of purposes come in, they often go through a tracking system, and that will be able to tell if the person uses AI or not, if I'm a faculty member, if I'm a missions person, and I know they're going to be writing students will be writing papers for next two years. Am I going to want someone who uses AI to do that with someone who's using their former operational ability of thought
to do that? Got it. So let me just track a little bit about what you're saying. So the first thing I heard is, is using AI to select the program could be dangerous, because depending on who has worked with certain companies that that provide AI, they may have actually bolstered their program in the rankings, yeah, so that that program is more likely to come up, not because it's a good fit for you, but because someone's bolstered
it. And we would have that same discussion maybe 10 years ago about Google, what emissions are paying more that they come up higher in the ranking?
Got it. And then what you're also saying is that in terms of your statement of purpose, using AI not to write the statement of purpose in part because the Statement of Purpose is designed to recognize or assess your thought process instead of somebody else's thought process. And so using that could be dangerous, as well as the fact that many admissions centers, as well as admissions experiences for our faculty have these detection systems that would automatically discount your essay, because if you're using AI, we're not necessarily going to know that this is you or AI. And if you're going to write papers for the next two years, I don't want all of them to be written by AI. I want to hear from
you. Yes, I want to know that you can have abstract reasoning, whether it's sitting with a client or writing a paper. Sure. I mean sitting with a client, and I am hearing horror stories about this right now and then checking in with AI about how should I next respond to what the client said?
Right? So the use of AI makes me. Think about another piece, which is in this process, whether you are talking to an admissions counselor, you're meeting with current students, you're writing a statement of purpose, how much of my own life and my own experiences should I self disclose in these different encounters? For example, let's say I have my own mental health history, or I have struggled with taking care of a family member that has severe mental health concerns. Like, are those things that I should be talking about writing about my statement of purpose?
I think there are ways to get across so you have life experience without I used the phrase earlier with earned intimacy, with if I have a experience and background and I I want to know someone before I tell them that, yeah. And I think people receiving that is vice versa. They want to know you more before receiving different levels of information. Awesome, because I'm not asking you to be fake at all. And want you be authentic. It's like the first date versus the 28th date. Back to that metaphor of dating, the things you're going to take your time to see before you talk about with people. And I think you can get things across without getting specific. Yeah. What do you think?
Theo, yeah, I have to say, I think there's, I like to think about our self disclosure in this stage of your process, like a spice rather than the main dish. Oh, nice. And so, yeah, I agree with you. And I think it shifts, by the way, that when people get into a program, there may be more self disclosure, especially as they're kind of thinking, looking under the hood of their own lives to see like, what is impacting them in terms of what comes up. But I think at that part that feels really It feels important to use it without having it be the focus, right?
Yeah, I love what you said, that when you have a supervisor, whether at school or out on your field placement that once there's that relation, that professional relationship, you're going to use self disclosure way, because it impacts how you take in things with the client. That's completely appropriate, yeah,
last thing I want to ask you about, because, you know, I'm all about the T there are several websites that applicants can join that allow you to learn when people get letters, when people are invited for interviews, when people get accepted.
I'm so glad you brought this up. Yeah. Do you know the people out there that actually are okay with messing with your mind and so, so if they're applying, they're like, I'm just going to get rid of more people. There are, there are these websites, and a lot of the information is made up. Is wrong? Sometimes it's not, not a malice. Sometimes it is done a malice because they want to get again, less people. I would I recommend to my clients, do not, do not use those websites. You want valid information, you can get it go to the program. I've seen people change dates on there so people didn't apply and missed the deadline. Wow, yeah. I mean, it gets cutthroat on these it really does.
So you're saying that there are applicants out there that go onto these websites, yes, I am, and change the date for application.
Hey everybody, just so you know, the University I'm making this up, of Maryland, has changed its date now from January 31 to now March 1. Wow. And what happened to be like, Oh my gosh, it's great. I have more time that you're going to get so little information out of there that you will be 100% sure is accurate. So why use it when you get it otherwise
and so listeners, if you are somebody who's looking for a website where you can start to track when people are hearing about admissions interview notifications or even acceptances. Just be really careful about joining some of those websites. They're also really huge anxiety bills for those of us that have that run more on the anxious side, right? So they can be super dangerous.
I think, yeah, I've seen people put up like, what questions were asked in your interview, and I'll know the program, I consulted with them about what their questions should be, and those are not the questions, right? So I think, as you're saying Theo, you're gonna get a lot more angst out of it than Yeah, valid information, not less. I don't know if you need to do that to yourself. Yeah, that's so helpful. So that means some self control is not going on.
Self control is a good thing. Sometimes. Sometimes, yeah, good.
Well, what do you what was not addressed that you think is important? From your
no you have, from you have been so helpful for us to think about the process overall. And I really am hoping that listeners, as you're listening to our. Guests today, we're not only thinking about for applicants that are in various stages of the application process, but if you are again a mentor, a grad student who's mentoring undergraduates, a new faculty person who's trying to think a little bit about the admissions process. There were so many moments in our time together today that you really spoke to all these different pieces. So we will be linking your website. My last question, which I ask every guest that comes on the podcast, is twofold, what are you working on now and what brings you joy?
Two are linked to to one project. So awesome. So one thing I'm doing right now is more objective academic writing about supervision and ethical and cultural cool. So I like that, so but the other part I love history, so I've been looking for years for someone to write about that kind of represented all the work I've done for years about sociocultural identities, intersection of identities. And it took forever, but I found this woman named stormy de la vie, a who is a real person whose life is just phenomenal. So for the past five years, I've been interviewing about 40, almost 50 people about who knew her, about her life. I've I've combed through papers from the 20s on to everything she's done. There was never a biography about her. But when I started to try to do biography, I realized if I learned how to write differently, instead of writing academically. So I went to put voice to this person. It would be, it would just be so much richer. Yeah, and she was a rich person. Gave so much. So I spent during covid learning how to do to fiction writing, something I never thought I'd do. Writing is not easy to me. Comes supernaturally to UT, not to me. So I had to really learn that tool, and I that's what completely brings me joy. Is researching and writing about stormy to lobby,
so you're doing a historical piece of fiction, correct that's rooted in stormy life and and also so many different kind of historical markers throughout
her time period. Historical markers, absolutely, as well as think of the psychology piece of this, of the of the identities,
oh my gosh, when that comes out, we're going to have you back on the podcast to talk more about that process, because I know our listeners are already frantically googling this person. I'm super
excited. If you look up stormy de la ba, you will you, you'll be like, This is the most amazing person. Why is someone written about her? Well, probably because of racism, gender identity, sexual orientation, all the things that all the isms so much hasn't been written about.
Dr Stanley, thank you so much. We'll be linking the website for Watershed to our episode page.
I thank you, ACA, and particularly your producer, for having the insight to do something casual that people can learn from when a podcast or just driving and take it in. And Theo, I know you're such a supporter of students over the over the years, and you bet here you are doing it again for students that you might not even know, but you're helping. So thank you.
Yeah, it was such a delight, listeners. We will see you soon. And thanks again for tuning in to the thoughtful counselor podcast.
Thanks again for tuning into the thoughtful counselor. Today, we hope you enjoyed the show. This podcast is made possible through our partnership with concept Palo Alto University's Division of Continuing and Professional Studies. Learn more about the thoughtful counselor and some of the other amazing continuing education offerings provided by concept at Palo Alto u.edu forward slash concept as always, if you are a fan of the show, we would love to hear your feedback and review on Apple podcasts or wherever you subscribe. You.
