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Hi, my name is George Abraham and welcome to Eyeway Conversations. My guest today is Arjun Ghosh from Kolkata. He is a student of law at the NUJS. Hi Arjun. Welcome!
Hi, sir. Good evening!
Let me first ask you as a blind youngster, what prompted you to take up law as a career?
So at the very beginning, I found that a lot of people like specially visually impaired, they didn't get justice, most of the people sometimes rejected by saying that you are visually impaired, who will not eligible for this job. And they don't they follow the guidelines, we have the visually impaired, not our, which how we can proceed. And sometimes we fail to do as well because legal, like cases this costly you know, so my interest is if I get a lawyer today, I can fight tomorrow, for fellow, people were suffering in such a scenario, as well as I am thinking I will collate the this necessary information at a grassroot level, and want to contribute for the social justice in the overall as well as I will stand up along with the collective social consciousness. So then I can deal in a better way.
You've gotten to NUJS. And it's, you know, it's a prestigious in stitution, one of the premier organisations, law schools in the country. It's a competitive process. So, how did you prepare for it and what was the admission process and was it very expensive, did you have the resources?
When I was completed, my 10 standard at Narendrapur, RKM School Bind Bus Academy, one day I heard that someone came from IDIA. Idea is increasing diversity by increasing access to legal education, they came in our school to make kind of campaigning for legal awareness, we all went there, and we were listening, like how it would be helpful for visually impaired and know where is the gap, there is also around two three visually impaired, there was on the time studying B.LLB. They told that we need people and they also told on that time they can provide the funds even it is highest expences still they will manage the fund if this select for idea is scholar, so I was super interested. I talked with IDIA director after the programme, I told that I was really interested I want to do something a little different, I want to contribute in our society. And then they told me, but you know, we have a process for selecting the student or or like we are IDIA scholar, for that we will take on kind of taste meritorious stage, we will determine whether you will be eligible for IDIA scholar or not. But unfortunately, you know, it was very sad for me, I didn't qualify of their merit list, then they have conducted again the same exam in my when I was in 12. And fortunately I got selected. So then they have started to provide me the legal materials for Common Law Admission Test (CLAT), which is organised by any law consortium all over the India. So they have given the syllabus they have given to me the materials books, etc. and admitted me in a career launcher, which is like basically provides the coaching for CLAT exam. I got at the very beginning Gujarat National Law University, which is in Gandhinagar. So I went there. I had a lot of challenges, though, on the time because my parents don't allow me to go there. They have a kind of view that there would be like nobody from my side, and they will be not there. So how can I survive there? And again, I got the good news after a couple of days, it was around 15 that like I actually applied for in UGC, applied there, and my name was pending and after a couple of days, I got selected. So, so far that is my journey, the IDIA scholar, and they have provided all my university's fees, stipend, and other needs as well. If I have if I like asked to them, they try to fulfil that as well.
So IDIA this is basically an organisation which supports underprivileged students and students with disability, whether they are blind or any other disability to pursue legal career. Is that correct?
Yeah.
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So Arjun, you also mentioned that you come from a rural background. So, tell me a little bit about your background. You know, where do you come from and a little bit about your parents, and how did you lose your eyesight.
I was born in a very small village named Wazirpur in West Bengal. And I was born with a very like in a poor, very poor family. My mother is housewife, and my father is a van driver. After like, a couple of years, my parents realised that I was not looking very normal like other child, they are thinking that there might be some issue with my eyes, they consulted with some doctors in my village. However, they all told to my parents that you need to do surgery immediately, who don't have enough money to go in a very high profile, private hospital or anywhere. We decided to go in medical hospital in Kolkata. We went there, we had a consult and doctor also suggested again, that it would be required to surgery immediately, the date, but the darkness come after that. I loose my vision immediately after my surgery, it was unsuccessful, and due to medical negligence, I was in a tough seen. I was not able to know what I can do on that time. When my parents also they are also in the same page. One or two years, we, like my parents admitted me in a village in village school, where I was doing my study, however the sad thing is you know, I was not able to catch up with my friends because the child or the child they used to ran up in the tiffin time they wish to play together. But I was almost like, not able to cooperate with them. They're not taking me. I was some time alone in the classroom or something alone in the outside of the classroom. I was sometimes starting to cry because I was alone, only nobody's taking me. But then my headmaster of my school, great like got in touch with a social worker which also a little part in my village. He suggested me that there was a blind school. It's called Narendrapur Ramakrishna Mission Blind Boys Academy. Then I went there and I was admitted.
Tell me a little bit about, you know, how did life change when you joined Ramkrishna Blind Boys Academy in the Narendrapur.
What I found in my school, there was not much acceptance and there was not enough awareness. My teachers even they don't know what is Braille, how it works. There is no special teacher, there is no enough support, they don't know how to deal with my needs. However, when I reached to Ramakrishna Mission, there was a special trainer. They know what is my needs and how I can perform better. So at the very beginning, I was so dull, and they started to give me training about the orientation and mobility, daily learning skill. They started to teach me the Braille. At the very beginning I was facing little difficulties because not able to understand everything well, but slowly, I grow up and learn everything very well. And acceptance was that there were all the people mostly visually impaired, so I can cooperate with them. I can play with them, I can spend my time equally with them. I never feel ever in my Nerendrapur Ramakrishna Mission that I am alone.
Let's talk about your journey at NUJS. So at NUJS what's the kind of support you get?
Yeah, so when I was admitted in National University of Juridical Sciences, I had a cultural shock because, you know, I never faced such a cultural background before in my life. I was stopped for a couple of days. It's not the only issue. I had a lot of challenges like I was, came from vernacular language, I was not able to partly work on a laptop, because I never learned the code well, so therefore, I had an issue with communication with other my friends. When this gossip together, I was just listening. And when I started to speak with them, I was stammering, I was like, I was even not even confident that what I am speaking, it's okay, scary. Subsequently, I started to learn that thing. I started to learn the computer. I started to learn the English in a well, in a competitive way. And my academic, like section, like they were really helpful. They have the accessibility lab, which is also qualitatively created by IDIA as well. It's called Shamnad Basheer IDIA Lab, where we have a scanner, we have a braille printer, we have some computer which is specifically fixed for visually impaired, where we have screen reader a little softwares and the other reading application like Acrobat Reader, bookworm etc. And like apart from personally, when I reached out to other professor they told me as well also, that whenever you will face any difficulties come to my chamber and we can discuss together about your issue. So, when I face any challenges like I am not understanding, or like any blackboard issue, I reach out to them and know what was the exact scenario there.
When you do courses in law, you also have to do a lot of internship. So, as a blind person as a blind student, was it easy for you to get internships? And what were the kinds of internships you did?
So, challenges was there, when I. At the very beginning it would get intensive. When I got the internship, I have another challenge in my mind that whether I will be able to perform or not or even it was happens so happen at the very beginning, when I started to do my first internship it was second internship. So I bought like a lot of internship so far, which includes under advocate under research organisation, under tier one law firm. At the very beginning, I had my internship under advocate Lubhnath Chatterjee in Kolkata High Court. It was really good, it was a litigation , then I had another internship under Chetan Anand in Delhi High Court, because also went will. However it was in online modes, this was like virtual mode they have given me like the assignments or tasks in mail, and sometimes call me and give me the tasks and I get back to them after certain at a certain point of time. Then I had a kind of research based internship CTIL Centre for Trade And Investment Law. Here is also mostly they assigned the tasks and I research on that and get back to them. I had also project work around I like I was a coordinator up there. During the COVID time people are suffering to go back in their home those who are a migrant worker, mostly they face these challenges to purchase a ticket to get their food when they are in the way and many other stuff. I was a coordinator in this society, where I was like collecting the data from the other agent, and like inserted everything in Google Doc updated every day. I was talking to people those who needs in financial need might be in the other assistive needs. So I was always talking I was talking about our 100 peoples in a day and I had to update the same thing in Google Doc, which was also really a excellent experience for me. After that, I realised that I can go in corporate sector as well as I want. So want to explore as well. And I first internship under Khaitan & Co., it was a tier one law firm in like all over the India, it has also office in Kolkata, it was really wonderful. I love the environment. I had a good tasks every day. Then I had another one more internship in trial legal. It was also quite same experience. And after that, I had I internship, which was my dream at my, like in my first years, like I have started to see the dream in my first year. It was under Chief Justice of India Justice D.Y. Chandrachud. So I was like lucky to get this internship. It was also really a wonderful experience to do such a prestigious internship under the Justin D.Y. Chandrachud Chief, Justice of India, then, right now I'm doing another tier one law firm internship in Bangalore office Nishith. It's called Nishith Desai Associates. Overall, it was a really excellent and like, good opportunity for me to explore the all the legal sector, people joining in a practical field after completing the five year course.
You know, I also noticed, Arjun that you have done a lot of certification courses in between to add on to your law degree. Tell me a little bit about that.
Sure, sir, I realise that the internship and the classroom understanding is not enough and to learn the law. Law is a vast subject. It's cannot be fulfilled in a one side approach. Therefore, it's required to take a course on to go some specific on subjects, which will be helpful and create kind of developing concepts as we certify for example, ITR, corporate law. So that's why I like did a lot of credit course, some certification like, I on IVC, beyond the gender beyond the genders equality, and some others as well, some good courses I have done so far.
So these additional courses that you do is that also part of NUJS or you do it online with other bodies?
No, no, these all not are part of NUJS, some of them part of NUJS, some of some other legal organisation and like some oversight, they have provided course for example, Law Seekho, Law To Pass, and some others as well out there.
So you work with them online?
Yes
This is all about law so far. So how does how do you Arjun kind of recreate? How do you relax? Are their activities that you do which kind of refreshes you and makes you relax?
Yeah, so sir, I am, like, book lover. I love to read the classical novel. Most of the time, when I get my spare time, I love to read the Bengali classical novel, and I also love adventures novel,. So like, whenever I get some space and I take vacation and other time, I used to open several home series. I used to open Harry Potter and I used to open some others like nice novels like some others foreign writers for example, Charles Dickens and in Bengali I love to mostly I would love to read Shailesh Chandra Chattopadhyay, Suresh Chandra Bandyopadhyay, Rabindranath Tagore, and Bankim Chandra Chattopadhyay as well. And for detective story in Bengali Satyajit Ray, Nihar Ranjan Gupta. So these are the writer who I always love to read their books. Apart from this, I am a good chess player. So when I get a partner, I play chess.
Obviously, when you were at Narendrapur, you had a lot of friends.
Yeah.
When you moved to NUJS did you actually find it difficult to make friends or you stuck to your friends from Narendrapur?
No, it's really sometimes challenging. I found many times there is a lot of social accessibility issue in NUJS. I never feel in my Narendrapur Ramkrishan Mission that I was like alone, although I have less friend but when I came to NUJS, I realised that based on specific friend friend. They don't I don't think they always understand me. They don't much empathy for my needs. I found a or that my friends call me to other friends to visit, or to walk out somewhere. But they don't call me many times. Most of the time they don't call me. Sometime tell me sad that due to my disability, they don't take me with them. And I also realise it's because kind of, like lack of awareness as well. I understand everything, but it's, it's happened actually, very less parents, sometimes it's difficult to make new lot of friends in NUJS. They also all are helpful, but they are not empathetic sometimes I realised.
So the help was there, but there is no empathy.
Yeah.
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in another year, you would finish your course you would be eligible to become a lawyer. So how do you see your career going? Are you planning to join a law firm or start to practice on your own? Or are you looking at doing some kind of consultancy work? What's your idea?
So sir, actually, in our university, we have a campus opportunity. We have a day zero around month of August, I'll be trying my best to get a, to get my job. However, it's completely depend the competitive markets MSc in a particular place, I'll try my best to do that if I get a job definitely I will go in corporate sector for the past two years, because I need to learn the law. I know I heard from people that whatever you will guys learn in the law school, it's nothing in the practical world, you need to learn by your practising with our advocates or in like a law firm. So I need the time to practice at the very beginning. So my first interest is to go in law firm.
And after that?
After that, definitely I will open my own place where I can speak up for the for the right to disability, I can write for them, those who are suffering, I can make more awareness in the legal field I can make the more inclusive society wh
You've done a number of internships. During these internships, how did you actually handle your work?
So, firstly, when I went in their office, they have given some research or mostly they have given some research and drafting. They told me that Arjun, this is the task, you have to do that. And then I started to research and submit within the deadline and sometimes they give some documents and told me to do cross checking, to do the format. If it is not accessible format, so I used to ask to them that this is sir, this is not acceptable format. So if you can provide me the accessible copy order, so then I can go with that without any difficulties. Then they look and make it accessible for me. Sometimes they also consult with me that how it is possible? I share my thought and experience that how inaccessible document could be accessible format. So then definitely they have given it some time in such a scenario.
Well, Arjun, it's been wonderful talking with you and it's nice to know that you have aspirations to be a lawyer and help your fellow disabled citizens as well as people who are vulnerable. It's good to know that you would like to take up legal consultancy in that area. So I'd like to wish you the very best and thank you very much for talking to me.
Thank you.
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