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Summit Empathy Circle

Edwin Rutsch1h 1min

Edwin Rutsch

00:01

Okay, this is our recorded room, just to give you a heads up, and I will be facilitating. Unless Bob, do you want to facilitate, or Mel, either of you want to be

Unknown Speaker

00:14

there, I think I'd break the rules. Okay,

Edwin Rutsch

00:19

then I will facilitate, and I will be the first listener. So who would like to be the first speaker? And as you see, the topic is, what do you feel when you're in an empathy circle, or whatever is on your mind? And let me change the views here to the gallery. There we go.

Edwin Rutsch

00:43

Okay, Bob, I'm listening

Speaker 1

00:47

when I'm in an empathy circle, I feel so welcomed and I feel that I belong.

Edwin Rutsch

00:57

I'm hearing that you feel really welcomed, like a sense of belonging when you're in in the empathy circle,

Speaker 1

01:03

and the more circles I take part in, it seems like every bit of me, every molecule of me, is blessed and sanctified and and made wondrous.

Edwin Rutsch

01:22

And you feel like when you're in a circle, everything, every part of you, is kind of sanctified and

Speaker 1

01:30

and it reminds me that it's a joy to be alive. And that's that's one thing I want to emphasize. Just the joy of being alive. It doesn't require any particular condition. It's just the fact that I'm here is is an inherent joy.

Edwin Rutsch

01:50

Yeah, you're really feeling that joy of life. It's like this inherent joy to be here,

Speaker 1

01:57

and the best part of that is just being with everybody else in the circle that it's not my joy, it's our joy,

Edwin Rutsch

02:03

and it's like this sense the shared joy.

Unknown Speaker

02:07

Yes, so I feel fully heard. Thank you, Edwin, thank you very

Edwin Rutsch

02:12

much. Speak to Mel and Oh sure, yeah. So how do I feel? I feel a little anxious and distracted because I'm also doing all the technical stuff in the background. So it depends on what my role is in the circle, like how I feel.

Speaker 2

02:32

So right now, you feel a little anxious and distracted because you're also having to monitor the tech stuff and fix text problems and stuff, and it's kind of using both sides of your brain,

Edwin Rutsch

02:44

yeah, so the distraction, but when I'm just doing the empathy circle, I feel very calm and very relaxed, and even when I'm in doing conflict mediation, there's a certain sense of relaxation, knowing that everyone's going to Be be heard, and there's a structure to hold that so that feels, Yeah, feels calm.

Speaker 2

03:06

So when you're just doing the empathy circle, not having to worry about the tech part, you feel calm and relaxed and, and you're grateful that the structure helps keep you on track and, and you enjoy just being

Edwin Rutsch

03:18

present. Yeah, I feel heard.

Speaker 2

03:22

Thank you. Well, my time. Let's see who's who's wants to listen to me. Cassel, you want to listen? Okay, okay. Well, I love empathy circles. And when Sylvia started speaking, I was like, oh, I want to talk, you know, because I just get so much reassurance when people really know processes. You know, they know that I know she's not going to block me with giving me advice or judging me, or any of those things. And so I can just speak freely about whatever's on my mind, right?

Speaker 3

04:03

Well, so I missed a little bit because of some sort of message showed up on my computer, but I understand that, that you feel free to speak your mind, and that people aren't going to argue with you or interrupt you and and so I think you referenced someone, but I'm that's the part I missed.

Speaker 2

04:24

Yeah, I was talking about Sylvia because she did the presentation on nonviolent communication. I'm very familiar with nonviolent communication. So, you know, when I first started playing with nonviolent communication, it was just really reassuring that people wouldn't collude with me, especially, you know, they would, you know, they wouldn't agree with my own judgment, because I didn't need that, you know. But when I just got the pure empathy, it was just very freeing.

Speaker 3

04:51

So that's, yeah, okay, so when you first started doing it, you really enjoyed that people weren't gonna collude with you. You. But it was going to be a pure empathy, pure reflection, so they were going to, but they weren't buying them.

Speaker 2

05:12

Yeah, I have a very strong jackal. Sylvia talked about jackals in her presentation. And, man, I can, I can cuss like a sailor, you know, but I don't want anyone to, you know, collude with that, that part of me, but I, but I want that part to be heard, and it certainly doesn't get heard much when I'm throwing my judgments out there. So to for have somebody have the skills to hear underneath my judgments and underneath that part of me and just hear the pure feelings and needs. It's very enlightening.

Speaker 3

05:46

Yeah, so that part has has insight. It really wants to be heard, but it needs to help to get a little deeper in order to to actually get to the bedrock of what it's trying to say. And so you really appreciate it when people don't sort of take you at the surface and help you get down below, but they don't block you either. Yes, so I put it a little bit in my

Speaker 2

06:12

own words. You heard me. I feel heard, and I appreciate your reflection back, right? So you can go now you

Unknown Speaker

06:23

can Are we at time? I don't know. At the time, it

Speaker 2

06:26

doesn't matter. I'm giving up if I have extra time, but go ahead and, you know, Pick up. Pick a person to listen to you.

Speaker 3

06:33

Wait a minute. We have Wait a minute. Edwin, we don't have two minutes. I'm confused. We have

Speaker 2

06:39

five minutes or three minutes, I have three minutes.

Unknown Speaker

06:43

We already, I'm sure we had three minutes

Edwin Rutsch

06:46

to she, she Mel, felt heard, so when she felt heard, great.

Speaker 3

06:53

Well, I'll pick Aaron. Say your name, please. Aaron.

Speaker 4

07:00

Aaron. Because it's just Aaron. Just Aaron.

Unknown Speaker

07:09

Okay, then, will you be my listener?

Speaker 4

07:13

Totally, yeah, no. Totally, totally great.

Speaker 3

07:20

Well, I don't have any one thing I feel. I mean, there was some The question was funny, how do I feel when I'm in in an empathy circle? Because it's lots and lots of different things. Sometimes I feel happy, sometimes I feel frustrated and because, and I think the process is very rich, but there are times that I want to go deeper or hang out with something, so

Speaker 4

07:53

I'm just going to repeat it back let me know if I wrong or got it correct. So you do not feel one specific emotion, you feel lots of things, and sometimes you feel like you want to go deeper. But perhaps, I'm not sure if I'm making so perhaps the empathy cycles, they are too short, perhaps and you are not able to go deeper. Or is that not fully correct? I do not know. Ah,

Speaker 3

08:27

well, I just feel like there's something in the process that's extremely, extremely valuable. And yet there's, I keep wondering what the next you know, what the next step is. So I mean, it feels like to be able to hear one another accurately, feelings and everything else is ground zero for a conversation.

Speaker 4

08:51

So you find empathy circles very valuable, and they are valuable to go deeper into conversations.

Speaker 3

09:04

Well, they're valuable because so many conversations go off the rails because we didn't understand what the other person was talking about in the first place.

Speaker 4

09:14

Okay, so anything like calls for you are valuable because conversations usually go off the rails because you don't understand what, not you, but because

Unknown Speaker

09:28

me, yes,

Speaker 4

09:33

because Because, because, in usual conversations, people don't try to understand each other, but you feel, if I'm correct, you feel like empty circles, if I am understanding correctly, do help other people? Do help people understand each other, and so they do not go as much or at all of the rest.

Speaker 3

09:56

Well, I'm Yeah, no, not. I wouldn't say at all, because always. Can go off the rails, but there's a there's something in them that helps you get back. You have a reference, which is just to understand that you understand.

Speaker 4

10:11

Okay, so there's something in empty empathy cycles that keeps them on the refs,

Unknown Speaker

10:23

yeah, at least more than most.

Edwin Rutsch

10:27

That was the time I just added, let's make it four minute turns. I think we can do a little bit more. Oh yeah. Aaron, if you want to speak, select your listener.

Speaker 4

10:39

Bob, would you like to be my listener. I'm listening. Yes, okay, let's see. Let's see. Let's see. What's the question? What do you feel? Okay, well, I can say right now. And I feel afraid. I feel afraid, very afraid. I feel so much fear in my stomach and my chest, yeah. Felt afraid and a little bit of excitement, because I wasn't expecting the, you know, I was just listening into the Zoom. But then when they said, Well, we're going to do empathy, wow, I didn't know, so that was kind of cool. So a lot of fear, but there was a hint of excitement, so a bit of a bit of that.

Speaker 1

11:14

So you're feeling fear and excitement, and there's a sense of energy that I detect too.

Speaker 4

11:22

Yeah, no, that's, that's totally, totally, totally, that is the thing. And question whatever is on your mind, okay, yeah, no, I guess I do not know so much. Usually I do not know so much what to talk about when I go to empty circles. That is okay.

Unknown Speaker

11:46

So it's okay not to know.

Unknown Speaker

11:48

It's okay not doing

Speaker 4

11:57

and they're good. I've been going to Larry's empty circles. Larry Larry Lawhorn, been going there maybe over the course of a year, and, yeah, they've helped me with my conversational skills. So that's been nice.

Speaker 1

12:11

You've been attending circles for about a year, and it helps you with your conversational skills, which is very nice.

Speaker 4

12:22

I gotta get my career sorted out. Because I gotta, I wanna, I gotta, I wanna move out of home, and yeah, I gotta make money. So I guess that is something that I am sort of dealing with or figuring out.

Speaker 1

12:38

So you want to get your career in order so you can make some money and move out and move on to the next phase. Correct, correct.

Speaker 4

12:56

I guess I think I want to make like videos online, but I want to do different things. So it's like, usually, if you have success from what I see, not always, but you're supposed to, like, do one thing or have a theme. But I want to do different things, and I can't make my mind up. So yeah, I don't know what I actually want to do.

Speaker 1

13:21

You feel called to produce videos online, and you're still looking around for a focus that you want to approach for your video success?

Speaker 4

13:32

Very true, yes, no. And guess that's just something that I I've had it over me a few days. I think I got it again go into the fear. Because, yeah, I've been, how would you say afraid? I'm very afraid. Been afraid for a long time, just not getting involved in the world. So that's kind of something that I got to go into. So I think I should be able to figure it out. But, yeah, it's kind of just getting out there now, and I guess that is the way. I'm not sure.

Speaker 1

14:11

So this fear comes up again, and you want to be involved, and it sounds like there's some fear as an obstacle between you and your full involvement,

Speaker 4

14:25

exactly, exactly, Exactly, okay.

Unknown Speaker

14:40

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome.

Unknown Speaker

14:51

Cassell, would you please listen to me?

Unknown Speaker

14:52

I'd love to

Speaker 1

14:57

I've been thinking about the 8 billion. Of us on the planet. And there's, there's, from what I hear and see, there's a lot of oppression and victimization and exploitation. And I'm wondering what it would take for the exploiters and the victimizers and the oppressors to back off a little bit and try to get along a little better.

Speaker 3

15:37

So we've been looking at the multitude of people in the world, by billion people, and seeing this cycle of oppression and victimization and depression, victimization and exploitation, exploitation and you, you've wondered if there was a way to get them to stop doing their things and to actually talk to each other, yeah, stop doing what's harmful,

Speaker 1

16:09

yeah, and I guess I should look inside myself to see how much of a victimizer and oppressor and exploiter I am, and that's the best place to start.

Speaker 3

16:26

So a thought comes seems to come up about looking inside, to see that dynamic within yourself to start with,

Speaker 1

16:37

and taking part in this empathy circle is a really important part of this introspection and coming to see myself more accurately and to accept myself.

Speaker 3

16:53

Oh, yeah, so being in the empathy circle gives you some sort of access to seeing yourself and to be more self, accepting so able them Yeah, to be more present Yeah,

Speaker 1

17:11

and also to realize I can be listening to others who might be going through that same kind of process. And this, this empathy circle, is such a powerful, powerful vehicle for for human growth and maturity and kindness.

Speaker 3

17:33

They really, you really see that also listening to others that you're offering this or you're participating in in a an act of human kindness by doing this

Unknown Speaker

17:46

castle. Thank you so much. I feel fully heard. Thank you.

Speaker 3

17:54

Oh, I'm the speaker. Now. Dog started barking, but you don't hear it, because Zoom is really good at cutting background noises. Let's see who would like to be my Edwin. Want to be my listener?

Edwin Rutsch

18:12

Listening. So,

Speaker 3

18:22

yeah, it's only been recently that I sort of stumbled upon and put these circles, and I was really glad, because I've been looking I've been doing a lot of focusing training, which I know that Edwin knows a lot about, because I've watched your videos, Cathy and with Ann lizer, and also, I've been a 50 Year meditator, so I feel like I've done the looking in my navel for quite a long time.

Edwin Rutsch

18:55

So you feel like you've looked at your navel for quite a long time, and you've done focusing, you've done meditation, and you kind of stumbled across the empathy circles, which has been beneficial.

Speaker 3

19:07

I did start, and I actually I did a whole nother thing, which was something called authentic relating. I looked at all the things that they do, and it's so complicated. There was just a level of complication that, because I want to be able to have something I know for a fact, for you know, experiential fact, that I'm not alone at being a little too inwardly focused in many of the groups of of which I take part.

Edwin Rutsch

19:42

So you find that you're too inwardly focused in the groups that you're taking part. And other people are like that too. So even exploring different groups and another group was authentic relating. But you find that practice rather complicated, and

Speaker 3

19:59

you kind. Have to buy into a system. Whereas I found with empathy circles, it's very it's like focusing in that it is very applicable to many, many different situations you don't have sort of by a theory or system in order for it to be practiced and to be a benefit

Edwin Rutsch

20:25

so authentic relating, you find that there's more of a system, a theory that you have to buy into, whereas with empathy, circles and focusing, there's no real thing you have to buy into.

Speaker 3

20:37

Yeah, yeah. So I'm really and I, I mean, I've sort of disappointed to realize how I don't listen to people, not only all my friends, but you know me so and I love it that there's an opportunity to practice. Because it seems like in the world, I get so many good teachings about things to do, but I don't know how to do them. Yeah?

Edwin Rutsch

21:04

So you're finding that you don't, you're not as good of a listener as you really would like to be. And I think you're, you're seeing that you don't get a chance to sort of practice these different activities and and sounds like you would like to do more practice?

Speaker 3

21:19

Yeah, all kinds of things. Be compassionate. Do this, do that. I mean, all these absolutely things that I've been studying and doing for 50 years, it's like, need to get more simple and get the basics, and then maybe they'll flourish better.

Edwin Rutsch

21:33

Yeah, for these different practices, they need to simplify it and get really down to the basics. Maybe they'll do better than

Speaker 3

21:42

not exactly that I feel like I it's sort of like I need to find what's basic for me, and the practices can be as they are. I'm not going to change them.

Edwin Rutsch

21:54

Okay? So the practices don't need to change. It's really how you sort of work with the practices. Is what needs changing.

Unknown Speaker

22:01

Yeah, thank you. I feel her. That's really good. That's right.

Edwin Rutsch

22:06

Then speak to Aaron. I mean, totally,

Unknown Speaker

22:09

yeah. No, that's fine. That's

Edwin Rutsch

22:11

fine, yeah. So it's like, again, yeah, really, what the Cassell said about it, there's a lot of feelings in the empathy circle, and that's a lot of different feelings come up, and that's my experience as well.

Speaker 4

22:29

So sounds like there's a lot of different feelings that come up in the empathy circle and with you, that is your experience as well.

Edwin Rutsch

22:41

And I really enjoy hearing people's experience of the empathy circle, like, you know, what? What are people experiencing with it? Because we're really trying to promote the practice, and it's good to have those insights about, you know, how is it impacting people's lives? So I really, really enjoy hearing, hearing those stories.

Speaker 4

23:04

So you really enjoy hearing people's stories in the empty circle, and you really enjoy sort of hearing their experience in the empty circle, how it goes. And I don't know if that

Edwin Rutsch

23:22

is correct, yeah, just what people's experiences are. You know, it's just, I just find so intriguing. It's sort of like a landscape that I'm trying to explore all the nooks and crannies of the empathy circle landscape. And hearing other people's sharing their experience kind of sheds light on different corners of the experience.

Speaker 4

23:49

So sharing and hearing other people's stories sounds like that sort of helps you get a light on the empathy circle experience. Because you are seeing all the different ways that it can sort of be, yeah,

Edwin Rutsch

24:08

and the feeling is, you know, one feeling is curiosity. Have a lot of curiosity, and I and there's also like enjoyment to hear people's, you know who people are, kind of their humanity, and I feel the empathy circle helps me to connect with people's humanity, and I just enjoy the richness of that experience.

Speaker 4

24:35

Okay, so what I'm hearing it, seeing the empathy circle, it helps you connect with the humanity and the whole humanity, and seeing people's personality, if I understood that correctly, and their humanity, yeah. Okay, do. Their humanity.

Edwin Rutsch

25:02

And, yeah, I'm very, sort of celebrating, like, with the empathy Summit, yay. This is really good, all these presentations. So I kind of like feel like some joy and kind of bubbly, bubbly energy, you know, around that.

Speaker 4

25:20

I know what you mean. Like, okay, so you are really enjoying the and you're enjoying the bubbly energy around the summit, the summit.

Edwin Rutsch

25:33

I also feel a little heaviness and constriction because, you know, as a producer and kind of co host on all this there's, there's a lot of kind of keeping things under control, to kind of manage, make sure that everything runs smoothly. So it's kind of these mixtures, different parts of my body, different sort of feelings are there.

Speaker 4

25:58

So you have different parts of your body, and there are different parts, and they are managing your system to keep everything under control,

Edwin Rutsch

26:07

yeah? Like focusing is good for for that too, that process of focusing, that cassell's talk, I love that process, yeah, okay, okay, if you want to reflect that, I love the focusing.

Speaker 4

26:22

Okay, you love the focusing.

Edwin Rutsch

26:27

I feel very hurt. Thank you.

Speaker 4

26:38

Mel says, Would you like to be my listener? Yeah, sure. Yeah, no, definitely relatable, keeping all the different parts and having them manage your system keep you under control Absolutely,

Speaker 2

26:56

so you can relate to what Edwin say about keeping all the balls in the air exactly that

Speaker 4

27:09

probably explains the tightness in my chest, my stomach, my chest.

Speaker 2

27:15

So right now you're feeling tightness in your chest and your stomach. So I

Speaker 4

27:29

wouldn't it be nice to just feel comfortable, like not having feelings there that you don't want.

Speaker 2

27:42

So you'd really like to be feeling comfortable, and instead of having these, this tightness constricting you,

Speaker 4

27:54

yeah, no, the tightness constructed me. Yeah, no, it doesn't feel the good like I can feel like when I'm sort of in my energy, it's not there, but usually in social situations that goes away, like, it's this a little bit, it is there a little bit, but not as much like when I usually did it and I just went somewhere, like, yeah, I could be in it, but, uh, Yeah, I'm trying to learn how to do that.

Speaker 2

28:21

So it sounds like that tightness in your chest and in your stomach is is part has been happening with you for a while, and you're kind of observing it and noticing when it gets lighter and when it's there the most

Speaker 4

28:42

no true. True. Anyone got any tips?

Speaker 2

28:47

You're looking for some maybe advice, or some tools to use that you can help with the tightness?

Speaker 4

28:54

Yeah? No. True. Yeah, no. Very true. Very true. So,

Speaker 4

29:03

of course, we have a format, so I can't just ask that question, right?

Speaker 2

29:10

So you'd like, you'd like to stay with the format, but part of you would really like to just check in with the participants and see if anybody had any information that might be useful to you.

Speaker 4

29:21

It would, it would, it would, it would, it would, it would. I don't want to break any rules. You know, it's, you know, not my, not my circle. So, yeah, I guess. Would that be okay? Edwin, how would you feel about that? Yeah, would that be okay if not? Feel free to say it's totally fine.

Edwin Rutsch

29:46

Yeah, we stay with the process. When everybody has their turn, they can answer,

Unknown Speaker

29:51

okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay,

Unknown Speaker

29:59

and for.

Speaker 4

30:07

I, you know, like, sometimes, like, you can just go to a social event, or, like, be in social settings and just like, feel good. And for me, those are the best times. Like, I don't have to worry about saying anything or performing or whatever, the fuck excuse me, then, yeah, I can just sort of just, oh, it's so nice. It's so nice.

Speaker 2

30:28

So you really enjoy the times when you can just go to a social situation and feel comfortable in your own skin.

Speaker 4

30:36

That is correct. Thank you. I feel fully seen and heard. Thank you. Thank you.

Unknown Speaker

30:41

Thank you. You're welcome. Okay, thank you. Aaron Bob, do you want to be my listener? I'm listening.

Speaker 2

30:52

Okay, so I want to respond to Aaron's question, and I think what you did is probably the best way to address that tightness is just to be heard about it. So I'm glad that you brought it up in the empathy circle and and recommend that you get more empathy about that tightness, really get into it. So anyway, that's my two cents. So I want to bring up something,

Edwin Rutsch

31:21

but maybe Bob could reflect that though. Are you sorry?

Speaker 1

31:26

So you're very happy to respond to Aaron's request for feedback, and it sounds like you're recommending the empathy circle as part of that prescription.

Speaker 2

31:38

Yeah, not only the empathy circle, but just getting deep levels of empathy through empathy circles or NVC. Sometimes empathy circles are limited, like Cassell says they I don't know if there's just not enough time or something, but there are other processes that can also probably meet that need.

Speaker 1

31:59

So empathy circles and NDC are other good ways to work through this, this issue,

Speaker 2

32:06

yep, in my opinion. And I love empathy, so it's helped me a lot.

Unknown Speaker

32:14

You love empathy. It's helped you a lot. Yeah.

Speaker 2

32:18

So the thing I wanted to just be heard about is and I already feel some emotion coming up. So lately, at night, when I'm sleeping, I get these this deep ache in my body. It's like my all my joints, like all over, and I don't believe that physical pain is only about physical pain. I think there's a psychological foundation and an emotional foundation for pain. And I just wonder, you know about this deep pain? I mean, it's deeper than you know, I have normal aches and pains during the day, but it's this deep pain. And I'm just wondering if it's about just taking on the world's pain somehow that I've growing up, I've just taken on the world's pain.

Speaker 1

33:09

So I hear your voice breaking a little bit, and you talk about being at night, feeling this deep pain, that perhaps you've absorbed some of the world's pain that and you're carrying it right now.

Speaker 2

33:30

Yeah, I've always been an empath to a certain extent, and so I think I've taken it on just because of the way our culture treats people. You know, it's just not nice. It's just the way people have spoken to me and treated me. Growing up is probably pretty normal, but for me, I think I just took it in.

Speaker 1

33:58

So you're you're weeping and your voice is breaking, and you're you're sad that you've taken in so much of this pain that the world has to offer.

Speaker 2

34:09

Yeah, and it's still, I mean, it's just still out there, if, if people don't consciously try to change the way that they've been socialized.

Speaker 1

34:21

So you're commenting that people don't seem to be wanting to change from the way they've been socialized, and you feel that the personal change is part of the solution.

Speaker 2

34:32

Yeah, I definitely believe that personal changes starts, I mean, change starts with the self, and I think people don't realize that it's available, but I I believe that if we continue to perpetuate these old methods of communicating, that it just continues to perpetuate the pain on the planet.

Speaker 1

34:59

So you. Your voice was so strong and positive when you said, you understand the power of this personal change to make the world a better place, and then you reflect it again on how unhappy the world's processes are, and there's a great contrast between those two. Yeah,

Speaker 2

35:15

so I think my time is up. So I'm I'm heard to the extent that that I was given the opportunity to express so thank you, Bob, you're welcome.

Unknown Speaker

35:32

Aaron, would you please listen to me?

Unknown Speaker

35:36

Totally, no, absolutely.

Speaker 1

35:41

A brief comment on your situation with your tightness in your chest and your tummy. I hope you might look up Rupert Spira, s, p, i, R, A, and see if his words of wisdom can help you.

Speaker 4

36:02

Thank you for commenting. I You hope I look up Rupert Spira, and if it does you any justice, I'm a big fan of Rupert Spira,

Speaker 1

36:14

so okay, and I was deeply, deeply touched by Mel Sears speech, speaking, and I felt her pain, and I felt her confidence that there's a solution to it, and I'm deeply privileged to be part of this circle today.

Speaker 4

36:35

You are deeply touched by Will says, what? When she spoke and you are very privileged to be part of the empathy circle today.

Speaker 1

36:49

Yes, and so I hope each of us continues the practices that we find helpful. I know I've been trying to figure this stuff out for 40 years, and it's it's working, and I know there's more to do, and I'm grateful to this group for encouraging me and giving me the impetus to keep going at it.

Speaker 4

37:19

I are. You are grateful for the empathy circle today, and it has been deeply helpful for you for 40 years, and you want to keep going at it. I don't know about that last one. So

Speaker 1

37:42

So I've, I've got my list of practices that I do here at home, and I feel good about the results I'm getting, and I want to keep, keep, keep at it.

Speaker 4

37:58

So you've got a set of practices that you're doing at home and you want to keep at it practice.

Unknown Speaker

38:08

Aaron, thank you very much. I feel fully heard. Thank you. Thank

Unknown Speaker

38:21

you. Edwin, will you be my listener?

Edwin Rutsch

38:24

Yeah, listening,

Unknown Speaker

38:28

yeah. I feel like.

Speaker 4

38:35

I feel like I didn't do a good job with Bob's listening.

Edwin Rutsch

38:41

You're feeling you didn't do a good job with Bob's listing. So you're maybe feeling some concern about that.

Unknown Speaker

38:51

Concern is a good What

Edwin Rutsch

38:56

concern fits the fits what you're feeling.

Speaker 4

39:04

You know, sometimes I feel like I'm really focused on myself, and when I do that, it makes me less empathetic, and it's hard to be there for other people when I'm so focused on myself.

Edwin Rutsch

39:16

Yeah, you're thinking that when you're focused on yourself, it's hard to kind of be there for other people.

Speaker 4

39:32

And part of me wants more time for mouses because it was a cultural Mm.

Edwin Rutsch

39:42

Yeah, and you actually were feeling you'd like more time for Mel, because she her time was short to really express, maybe what she all she wanted to express,

Unknown Speaker

39:57

good Exactly. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker

40:09

I think that is all I have to say. Thank you.

Edwin Rutsch

40:13

Thank you, Lord. Now so okay, I'll speak with casselle Cassell, please. Um, yes, so yeah, you're muted. So I just in terms of the questions Aaron had, you know about feeling tightness and so forth, I think what Mel said is what I would say too, is having someone to share those feelings with? Well, first is willing to acknowledge the feelings like he did, and then to share them is the first step. So he did exactly what I would suggest. Oh, it's me. Yeah, you're there.

Speaker 3

40:58

They're agreeing with you, but you would it related to what an was saying about tightness, that you felt, that his acknowledging it and speaking it out loud to the group was really the way you would suggest even work with it.

Edwin Rutsch

41:20

And it's a bit like focusing too, you kind of maybe, if he learned a little bit about the focusing process of staying with that feeling, you know, watching it evolve as he shares, and having someone reflect it, that he could would probably help with going deeper into and maybe, you know, moving through it.

Speaker 3

41:37

Yeah. So the similar to focusing in that, naming it in a in a friendly way, if I can add that little piece in, and then being able to stay with it, but also to name it at can maybe create the tiniest little shift,

Edwin Rutsch

42:00

yeah, and then having maybe an empathy buddy, you know, an empathy circle is good for it, but just having a one on one, when I was managing the empathy center, I was very stressful, and I had someone who's my empathy buddy, and for half an hour, they would just listen to me. I didn't have to do and they I didn't have to reflect, you know, listen to them. They would just listen to me, and then I would share all the anxieties. And afterwards, I felt much better. I could feel the stress level go down, having those empathy buddies.

Speaker 3

42:33

So having an empathy buddy, when you had the center and you had a lot of anxieties, and you just could have a whole half hour where they really listened to you, allowed your stress level to settle out.

Edwin Rutsch

42:49

Yeah, and my heart was really warmed by Mel, just what she shared. I could just feel my whole body just, you know, warming with her kind of openness and, you know, her humanity so really kind of touch, yes, really touched by it.

Speaker 3

43:06

So what you felt, what Mel said, it really, it really did touch you, because your whole body responded with just a kind of melting quality,

Edwin Rutsch

43:15

yeah, yeah. I feel very hurt. Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker 3

43:22

Uh, let's see who didn't hear is, are we going around again?

Edwin Rutsch

43:27

Yeah, we keep going. Have another about 15 minutes.

Speaker 3

43:33

But the timing is, Bob, you didn't hear me. Did did we? Did you listen to me?

Unknown Speaker

43:38

I'm listening right now. Okay.

Speaker 3

43:43

Yeah, wow. So this is an interesting moment, because I do feel, I feel something, you know, with our oops. Now, are and Mel Sears both so different. I mean, the the sense of the tightness and the body and the pain of the world and I I feel that the

Speaker 3

44:33

not not denying it, something About being up against the struggle that seems so big right now.

Speaker 1

44:44

So you acknowledge the struggle that Aaron and Mel talked about, and you feel a little of that struggle yourself.

Speaker 3

44:54

I actually feel like we're all in it, if we if we ignore it or whatever, but it's happening. I mean, they're people starving and they're people causing them to starve.

Speaker 1

45:03

So we're all in it. There's people starving and people causing people to starve, and it's all part of who we belong to,

Speaker 3

45:13

yeah, but also the so that's sort of on the bigger level. And then when Aaron was talking about, you know that moment where you just clench up, and you especially don't want to At those times,

Speaker 1

45:31

so there's this feeling of not wanting to clench up, of wanting to be soft and receptive.

Speaker 3

45:38

Yeah, well, and I'm going to just say what, because I study with this focusing person, and the way she always talks about when, when there's something that comes up like that, to be able to not be taken over completely by it.

Speaker 1

46:01

So in your focus work, there's the wisdom that says, Don't be completely taken over by it.

Speaker 3

46:07

Well, she has actually a technique, and it's to just say to the part that feels constricted, to say, Oh, something in me is feeling constricted right now.

Speaker 1

46:19

So the focus technique is the awareness of being feeling constricted, which is helpful.

Speaker 3

46:25

More than that. It's the saying of those words. It's the actually acknowledging the because it it makes it to say something in me is feeling constricted, rather than I am constricted all of me to something in me.

Speaker 1

46:45

So speaking the words something in me feels constricted is very powerful.

Speaker 3

46:52

I think I have found it helpful. You can try there on, say something in me feels constricted and just see if it helps to I mean, everything's an experiment, right? Oh, something in me feels constricted. Hello, I know you're there. So without it, without adding the please go away part, it's just like accepting it.

Speaker 1

47:15

So speaking it and accepting it is a very important part of the focus process, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3

47:23

She has a book called The radical acceptance of everything. So that's how you make friends with everything that comes up in your being.

Unknown Speaker

47:34

The book is called the radical acceptance of everything, yeah?

Speaker 3

47:39

And it feels like an empathy circle has that quality also that we're creating a zone of acceptance for whatever's coming up.

Speaker 1

47:52

The Empathy circle also has that, that dimension of acceptance whatever comes up.

Unknown Speaker

47:58

Yeah, thank you. I feel heard. Okay.

Unknown Speaker

48:02

Mel, would you please listen to me? Sure?

Speaker 1

48:13

Again, it's, it's, it's a privilege to be part of this wonderful group of human beings who are being honest and and sharing, and I feel the healing flowing through it.

Speaker 2

48:29

So you're feeling very grateful to be part of this circle where people can share openly and honestly and and you're honored to be part of it. I

Speaker 1

48:45

What else. And no matter what I read about in the news, the empathy circle reminds me that I'm connected in a very powerful way to compassion and loving kindness, and that's so much more important than whenever some blowhard says it gets recorded in the news.

Speaker 2

49:13

So being in the circle reminds you that you're really in spite of that what's going on in the news, that you're connected to a very powerful compassion,

Speaker 1

49:27

and I need to be in awe of that power that we all share. And the old song by Pete siger says We Shall Overcome. That gives me hope and a lot of lot of confidence in that.

Speaker 2

49:50

So you want to remember to be in awe of this power that we all share and to gain. Strength from it. Yeah,

Speaker 1

50:06

I'm working on a song list that I can put together of songs like we shall overcome and blown in the wind and times they are changing, and if I hear those songs that strengthens my resolve to stay with it

Speaker 2

50:24

so that the music is really touches you on a deeper level and and helps you stay in this energy of compassion and hope.

Speaker 1

50:36

Yeah. And one last thing, I used to belong to a church here in town, and our pastor was called to be an assistant to the bishop, and it so happened that after a few years, she was nominated to be the next Bishop, but last night, she withdrew her name, and I'm kind of concerned about if she's okay, and I hope she made a wise decision for her own well being and for the well being of the church.

Speaker 2

51:15

So there you're a little puzzled when you heard that this pastor that belonged to this church that you go to or went to, why she would remove her name so you're a little puzzled about and wish her that she's hopefully that she's doing well.

Speaker 1

51:33

I hope it's for the right reasons and that it's all going to work out.

Speaker 2

51:36

Yeah, you hope that she withdrew her name for reasons that nurture her and nurture humanity.

Unknown Speaker

51:47

Mel, thank you so much. I feel fully heard. Thank you.

Speaker 2

51:52

You're welcome. I don't know how much time do we have left? Edwin, 10 minutes. Oh, okay, lot of time. I guess I just want to put Oh, let's see who's going to listen. I think everybody's heard me, even Edwin. I'll go with Edwin again. He's number one, listening. Yeah, I just, since I've been doing the empathy circles with you. I've noticed that I'm the only person that ever cries circles. Yeah?

Edwin Rutsch

52:27

You just, since you've been in circles with me, you just realize you're the only one that cries in these circles. Yeah?

Speaker 2

52:35

And it's, it's puzzle. It's a little puzzling to me why I have so much accessibility to my feelings and to my deeper feelings and and why I'm why I put them out there when no one else puts the feelings out there. Well, you're

Edwin Rutsch

53:01

just kind of wondering like, how is it that you have that accessibility to those deeper feelings, like tears, and also, how it is that you can put them out there and others don't?

Speaker 2

53:13

Yeah, yeah. And I would like other people to put it out there, because it would feel reassuring to me that I'm not alone. You know,

Edwin Rutsch

53:26

you actually would like if other people put those feelings at derbies, then you'd feel like you're not so alone with those feelings.

Speaker 2

53:33

Yeah, and lately, I've been feeling a little alone in the world, and I think having just shared feelings with people and letting having people express their vulnerability and share all of who they are would really give me some companionship in this journey called life.

Edwin Rutsch

54:01

You've been feeling recently but alone in this journey of life, and you'd like some companionship in those deeper feelings that you have, others that would share those

Speaker 2

54:15

I would like that companionship and and it's been, it's been rare. I don't know if people are just so strong and in protecting their vulnerability, or maybe they don't have the vulnerability, or they're not willing to share the vulnerability, or I don't know. I just, you know, I just am a connection junkie, and I want connection with, I want to go deep. I want to like, I want to, I don't know. I want to swim in the deep water.

Edwin Rutsch

54:51

Yeah, you really want to swim in the deep water, the deep emotions and just wondering why other people. Maybe don't, aren't, aren't there,

Speaker 2

55:04

yeah, and I honor everybody's process, whatever they do. I mean, I'm not judging anyone. You know, it's just, this is just about me and my process.

Edwin Rutsch

55:15

Yeah, it's not that you're like, judging people for not being there. It's just sort of a curiosity, maybe, and why?

Speaker 2

55:24

Yeah, and the the aloneness that I've been feeling, I mean, I'm, I get, I get plenty of socialization where I live. I mean, I play badminton every morning, and I socialize with people there. And it's, it's fun, you know, but it's not deep. So I don't get a lot of depth of connection with people.

Edwin Rutsch

55:45

So you're getting a lot of you know people that you're sort of relating with, but there's not that level of depth, emotional depth, that you sort of yearn for, desire.

Speaker 2

55:59

Yeah. So anyway, I'm noticing the time's almost up, so I'll quit there, and thank you for your listening.

Edwin Rutsch

56:06

Okay, so we have about five minutes, maybe we can just open it up to general comments, any feedback, any any thoughts. So without active listening, just any sort of a we will be doing a debrief when we get back into the into the main room. Yeah, Bob,

Speaker 1

56:31

I've had a number of phases of my life where I have been weeping and sobbing and moaning and crying, and what today is not one of those times. I've had several good therapists, and I belong to a small group that meets every Wednesday night, and they have helped me heal the pain, and I'm so grateful to that little group on Wednesday night for healing for me.

Edwin Rutsch

57:12

Anyone else, just jump in.

Speaker 3

57:17

This isn't a huge thing, but when, when Bob was making his list, I wanted to add there, but for Fortune,

Unknown Speaker

57:27

there, but for a Fortune,

Speaker 3

57:29

yeah, so Joan Baez song, and it's just so beautiful there, but for Fortune, go, you or I. It's about identifying with people who are in pain, and just being able to say there but for Fortune, that we'd all be in the same boat given different circumstances, sort of a gratitude and empathy poem.

Edwin Rutsch

57:58

Yeah, for going deeper, maybe it's a separate empathy circle where, you know, there's a regular group that gets together and they have that space, because I know when I have my empathy, buddy, you know, I'm talking about all the different, you know, I've got more space to talk about all the things that are happening in My life. Yeah, it's, I really enjoy, really appreciate everybody being here and the connection with you all.

Unknown Speaker

58:31

Aaron, you're muted,

Speaker 4

58:33

okay, I want to say sorry if I caused anyone any pain. Another thing, Mercedes, you mentioned you are looking for companionship. I think Larry is single. I don't know. He's got a website, empathy matters.org, he has empathy circles on the ifs and like that kind of stuff. Yeah, I recommend. Larry might be single, so, yeah, he's a really good guy. Won't put that out

Edwin Rutsch

59:09

there. He loves empathy circles. Larry always says, I love empathy circles.

Speaker 2

59:15

I know Larry. Yeah. He lives in Florida, right? No. Her,

Speaker 4

59:24

with opening up or wanting deep connections, I totally get that I was there and, yeah, no, totally get that one thing I know, when I am able to be vulnerable and just like, be vulnerable and understand people emotionally, people open up to me. So it's like for me, what helped was understanding people emotionally and sharing my own vulnerability. Yes, because that was able to sort of get them to feel comfortable. So really, it's just about building comfort with people. In my experience, and I'm not an expert. So, yeah, if I talk like an expert, I'm not, but yeah, like, I don't know if this is at all helpful. Hope that is at least a little bit helpful.

Speaker 2

01:00:10

Yeah, yeah. I didn't really need to advice or anything, you know, but I did enjoy your sharing. Sorry, sorry. No, no, that's that's fine, yeah,

Edwin Rutsch

01:00:23

okay, the room we got one minute left here.

Speaker 2

01:00:27

Can I make an ad? I'm writing a fiction book called, I'm not sure what the name is yet. It's something like Zuma, the the secret journal, Journal of an earth alien. It's about an alien who gets left on earth at birth, and it goes through her enlightenment process until she becomes, you know, in her, her she finds her home planet again, and they speak nonviolent communication on the home planet. And, you know. So it's kind of all these skills put into fiction form so that you can empathize with the the characters and kind of learn a little bit as you go along, so that beware of that coming out, hopefully pretty soon, it'll have the word Zuma and at z, U, M, a, that's her name. Thank you for listening. You.

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