š„„Plant Problem Mysteries, Hypoxia, and Fighting Pests with Dr. MJ Coco
1:36AM Jan 28, 2025
Speakers:
Jordan River
Dr. Coco
Keywords:
over watering
lack of oxygen
IPM scouting
pest control
high frequency fertigation
root aphids
fungus gnats
bacterial infection
seed germination
cloning issues
water temperature
root zone
hydroponic media
commercial grows
plant problems
Greetings growers from around the world. Jordan River here back with more grow cast like nutrients for your ears. Today we have the good friend of the show and long awaited return of Dr Coco. Very cool episode we have lined up for you today. Now this episode kind of revolves around some recent consult work that Dr Coco has been doing, but it leads to a bunch of great teaching moments, things like over watering, or, more specifically, lack of oxygen, things like IPM scouting, pest control application rates of different pesticidal biological inputs. It's a really, really good one. I know you're gonna love the return of Dr Coco. Before we jump into it, though. Shout out to AC infinity, that's right. Acinity.com, code grow, cast one five, gets your savings on all sorts of products, including the brand new AC infinity TerraForm. That's right. This is a AC heater, humidifier combo, and it's an amazing unit that'll help you adjust your grow however you need. Use code grow, cast one five at AC infinity today to grab whatever you need, they've got grow kits that can get you started growing. Add another 10 to your setup. Lickety split. I love those grow kits. It's a really great deal. There's got a whole new space. It comes with everything you need, the lights, the pots, the fans, the filters, everything you need is all in there. And you can even use code grow, cast one five AC Infinity has been making the best inline fans in the game for a long time, but now they offer all sorts of wonderful products to growers, from protective garden wear to sunglasses to plant pots to trimming scissors, like I said, tents, lights, filters, fans, it's all there. They even have the refillable filter that is reusable. I love that that's at AC infinity.com. Plus their new TerraForm, which will help you get your environment on point find it all at AC infinity.com. And when you go use growcast One five helps them, helps us, helps you. Save I appreciate you guys. Thank you to AC infinity. Shout out one more time. Grow cast, one five at AC, infinity.com. All right, everyone, let's get into it with Dr Coco, thank you for listening and enjoy the show. Hello, podcast listeners who are now listening to grow cast. I'm your host, Jordan River, and I want to thank you for tuning in again today before we get started, I urge you to share this show, turn a grower onto grow cast and find us at growcast podcast.com or turn a smoker on to growing. That's the best way you can help us on our mission of overgrow. Make sure you're subscribed. Follow us on whatever platform you're listening to. We're on Spotify. We're all over the place. And like I said, grow cast podcast.com, for all the information, membership classes and more special. Thank you to the members. All right, my good friend, it's been a while since he's been on the show. Dr Coco, from Coco for cannabis.com, is back. What's up? Dr, Coco, how you doing?
I'm doing great. Jordan, grow, love everyone. Yeah. It's been a minute. So I'm happy to be back on grow cast. Happy
to have you, my friend. Of course, we've been talking off air. Even got to hang out once, maybe even twice, since the last time we spoke. I don't know. We're on a slower schedule now, so every other week with grow cast, at least for the summer schedule. So I'm happy to have you back on, of course, Coco for cannabis.com. Guys, if you haven't, if you're a new listener, if you haven't heard a DR Coco episode, Coco for cannabis.com. That's where you need to go. That's where you can find all sorts of articles and light reviews and educational resources and direct access to MJ Coco, Coco. What's been up? Man, how have you been doing? Before we get into today's episode, all about diagnosing plant problems, what's been going on in your
life? Oh, you know, doing
well. I'm got some new projects going on. I've keeping up with the Ask Dr Coco show, my little Patreon show, so you guys can find me there if you're interested. You know, I've not I don't have a grow going right now, but I often take the summer off, but I'm thinking about starting up again. I've kind of got the itch going. I've been talking to so many people about growing plants. I'm like, You know what? I need to get some plants grow. And I am pretty hard happy with my last harvest, but had one plant go, Herm on me, and finding a few seeds here and there. I never saw it. Herm, but I'm, I'm finding the seeds. I'm a little bit disappointed in that, and that's kind of got me tempted to, alright, let's, let's pull out the, pull out the seeds again, and have another run at this thing. But no, everything's, everything's going well, thanks for asking. Yeah,
no, that's good. You know, as a content creator, there's been long periods where I haven't been growing, yeah? And on one hand, it's, it's a benefit to us, right? Usually, when we're not growing, you're out visiting clients, you're out, I'm out doing content, so you're like, picking up from other people's scenarios and situations. But like you said, you're missing the hands on experience in the garden. Yeah? And you're not. Pulling from your own experiences. You're exclusively pulling from people online or people in your consoles or stuff like that. So it's always interesting as a content creator when you have to take the pause and growing everybody does have to pause, sometimes, guys. So it's just one of those things
that makes sense for home growers to think about your annual schedule, especially if you want to, like, keep doing this. Think about your annual schedule and where it makes sense to kind of take breaks. For me, it always has made sense to take a break in in July, you know, first part of August, because it's the hottest time of the year, and I can have a harvest, you know, in June, and then not start plants again until the end of August. And, you know, it's no problem, still getting in three harvests and non overlapping grows. So, you know, think about how your grow schedule works out. Think about your travel schedule and all the rest of that. Now, I also have good automation on my grow so I can leave for four or five days. No problem. Hell yeah, it's a little bit, just because of the size of my reservoir, a little bit challenging to leave for for much longer than that, although I'm working in on solutions even more. I have a little at home doster that my buddy Andrew built for me, but it's not, it's not hooked to the reservoir yet. So that would be one solution would be cool.
This gets set up.
You know, it's funny. We just did an episode talking about this exact same thing and how everybody should have some form of, like, quote, automation. Because what ends up happening is you become absolutely tied down to your garden, yeah, and and growers will grow for years and never take a vacation, yeah, it kind of disrupts the work life balance. So I love the annual thinking, taking this height of summer off, taking the height of winter off, taking whenever family vacation is off, yeah, I actually think pausing can be a good thing, even when it comes to growing, which I'm doing all the time. Yeah,
yeah. I have a fall grow, you know? It starts at the end of August, basically wraps up at the beginning of December. I have the holidays off, then at the end of December, so it can travel and not have to worry about things we always do the New Year's grow challenge, right? That starts on January 1. I try to get two grows in there, like the winter grow and then the spring grow and take summer off. So do a fall, winter and a spring grow with a little holiday break and a big summer break. It's kind of like the school schedule, really. You know what I mean? Like on trimesters?
Oh, it's too funny, yeah, and it's hot. It gets hot with that California sun, even in Humboldt, I would turn off half my lights during the height of summer in my outbuilding, poorly insulated. I could have done a way better job knowing what I know now. But, yeah, it gets hot man with that direct sun,
yeah? And, you know, in like, a big commercial space that's all set up to be running a lot of age back then, uh, seasonal change in temperatures doesn't make that big of a difference. Really true, as opposed to a shed, yeah? But in your house, it's the difference between sort of your AC keeping up with the demand, or maybe not keeping up with the demand, or, you know, running 50% of the time, or running like 95% of the time, or something. So it definitely puts a additional toll on your resources. And if you're able to grow most of the year without kind of using your air conditioning like that, then trying to try to time that better, you know, try to take that to your advantage. Yeah, absolutely.
And you're right, it's completely different when you get to commercial scale. It's one of the topics I like discussing with you a lot, and I think the the audience really likes it as well, because you do work with so many home growers. You're working with people who are growing in tents, in their house, in their closet, in their basement, yeah, but then you've also got multiple commercial clients all around the country. I've heard
some clients from Central Asia recently, some clients from Southeast Asia, Eastern Europe, so and a bunch of different states in the United States,
a different animal. When you're dealing with 1000 or 10,000 or 100,000 plants, right,
it definitely is, you know, and when you're dealing with growing it as a cash crop, instead of growing it as you know, a personal crop, there's a lot of different considerations to be made, and it's just sort of a different way of approaching things, but there's a lot of similarities too. I mean, you grow good plants, you grow good
plants, right? Think you can learn from both, honestly, yeah.
And, you know, the method that I teach people how to grow in is really scalable, and it's the way that a lot of commercial facilities want to grow and are trying to grow. There's still a tremendous amount of of bad information out there about how to grow hydroponically in Coco car. So yeah, a lot of a lot of commercial. Facilities have come to me and asked for my advice, and I've helped them, you know, get set up with with better SOPs, get them set up with better cultivation plans that can, you know, take advantage of what they've got to work with, basically, or help them get set up in a facility that that will work well for kind of the way we can grow.
So I actually have a follow up question to that. And then we're going to get into our topic for today, which is really just a long term story about you helping diagnose problems and dealing with misdiagnoses. That's really what I want to focus on today, because when you're trying to diagnose plant problems, it can be challenging, even in person, let alone over the phone. And sometimes the grower or the consultant gets an idea in their head, gets the wrong idea, red herring misdiagnosis, and goes down a totally wrong path. But before we jump into all that, you said something that I would like to hone in on. You said, a lot of people are still making mistakes with this high frequency fertigation style, and you set them up with better SOPs. So my first question would be, what are some of the most common mistakes you see when you walk into these hydro cocoa grows, especially at scale, where are they usually going wrong?
They're not watering frequently. They're not fertigating frequently. Yeah, that's
not high frequency enough, damn it. Yeah?
Or they're doing other sort of alternations with their fertigation. So they're they're not fertigating consistently. Although most commercial facilities are, some are still running sort of intermittent flushes, which sort of lowering your overall EC and eliminating the intermittent flush, maybe changing the nutrient lines that you're running. You can definitely have better success with that. But yeah, a lot of growers in the commercial space and in the home growth space, and this comes up in the story that we'll
get into today, is still kind of believe that
you can over water plants hydroponically. And so that's kind of where I wanted to start that, that story today anyways, because it's where this This story starts. But you know, when we're growing hydroponically, the plants are interacting directly with the water. It over. Watering is really a misnomer, but it's important to understand how the plants are actually suffering.
So yeah, that's
a lot of growers develop problems. They diagnose it as over watering, and so they start watering less, and that causes sort of other knock on problems. And then you got the kind of compounding issues developing in your growth. That is,
that is very true. Now I want to be specific, like you said, we're coming at this from your SOP, your patented growth style, if you will. We're not talking we're not talking about, yeah, good call. Not actually patent, you know, I'm saying your trademark gross style, that's what I mean to say. Dr, loco style. We're not talking about growing outside in ground. We're not talking about growing in dirt. What medium are we growing in? Are you in?
I'll stop you there, because I'm talking about over watering is a misnomer, full stop. And I think all growers, regardless of sort of the media that you're growing in, should be talking about the problems correctly, because it helps you diagnose and treat the problems effectively. You know, if you talk about the problem like it's over watering, then the solution appears self evident. We water less, right? But like, what if the problem isn't really over watering in that there's too much water? What if we should think about the problem differently, because over watering, like too much water isn't an actual plant problem, right? If having too much water was like problem for plants, then we would not be able to grow them in DWC, yeah.
Every, every time it rained, there would be major issues. You're right. DWC wouldn't work. DWC just
wouldn't work. Do you know you see is constantly too much water? Like watering was a thing. Like, how the hell are you just growing your plant roots always in water?
Is it kind of like if someone fell into a pond and drowned and the coroner came, or the the homicide investigator came, and he was like, Damn, he over watered himself. It's like, no, he suffocated. He drowned. Yeah, is that kind of what you're
saying, suffocation? So, no,
no, he died from too much water. Cause of death, too much water, exactly,
exactly. But if he had been, you know, floating on his back, it wouldn't have been too much water, even though it was exactly the same amount of water. Yes, exactly, right. So it's not the amount of water, it's sort of the way that you're interacting with the water, or in this case, whether or not you can get oxygen, it's about the availability of oxygen. It's not the availability or the over abundance of water. And that's true whether you're. Growing in peat, whether you're growing in dirt, whether you're growing in cocoa, whether growing in DWC, in DWC, you know, if the air pumps stop working, it becomes an emergency immediately, right, right? Because you now don't have good water. The amount of water hasn't changed, but the quality of the water has changed, and that's an important lesson for growers in other hydroponic medias like Coco core, which is, it's not the amount of water the plants interacting with, it's the quality of the water that the plants interacting with, and when the plant gets sort of drowned, right? And drowning, both for humans and plant roots, means that you're not getting enough oxygen, wow, then the plant suffers, and it starts to wilt, and it presents these classic symptoms that we know of as, quote, unquote, over watering. Yeah. But, you know, tell that to a DWC grower. It's like, over watering. It's like, dude, I'm in DWC. How do you mean over watering? Who
can still have the same problem? Like you said, if his pump goes out, he's facing the same citation. His
problem isn't that he's over watering. His problem is that his pumps gone out. I think that's always the case. Now, in certain medias, you know, in fine grain peat, for example, if you water it to the point of saturation, it's gonna be a while before it sort of drains off. There's not a lot of air holding capacity and fine grain peat, right? So when you're growing in those media the roots, there's a limited amount of oxygen in the water itself, and then you know the roots are going to suffer until the water dries back and the roots are able to get access to air again. And so if you're watering too frequently, you're in effect, robbing the roots of oxygen in a media like that. The reason we grow in cocoa, literally, one of the reasons that cocoa is sort of the hydroponic miracle media that it is, and it's taken over a lot of sort of container cultivation, is because it's able to hold on to more air, and we sort of water it in such a way, under high frequency fertigation, that the plants are able to get most of the oxygen directly out of the water. But it's incumbent upon us, just like it's incumbent upon DWC growers to give well oxygenated water to the plants.
Interesting, so is that part of your your growth strategy, if you're in cocoa, do you always recommend oxygen? Do you recommend oxygenating the water? If you can in any scenario for
that? Yeah, well, it's basically just aerating the water. So yes, right hand watering. You want to shake up your jug before, you know, putting it in your container. Does that
really get as much oxygen in there as, say, an air stone. Yeah,
air stones. I actually am not a huge fan of air stones. We can talk about different ways to do this. In a res, air stones heat up the water, which is antagonistic to oxygenating the water. They get funky too. Wow. That's because they're heating up the water, yeah? And they grow bacteria absolutely and they're hard to clean. But basically, if you have your room at like, a comfortable human temperature, like, say, 72
even hotter than that, say 74
and you're trying to keep your res at 68 you're pumping this 74 degree air through it. It's really hard to keep your res cooler than that, and there's an important threshold there, right at about 70 degrees Fahrenheit, where, above that, water doesn't have enough oxygen for plants. Wow, below that, it does, or it can, it has the potential to have enough if you're watering with water that's above 70 degrees Fahrenheit, you're not going to be able to depend on the dissolved oxygen in the water to satisfy your roots, and the roots will have to get oxygen from air itself, not just from dissolved oxygen in the water. But if you can keep your water below 70, and we say, you know, 68 degrees Fahrenheit is kind of ideal. You can hold a lot of oxygen in water. That's 68 degrees Fahrenheit, but it's hard to keep water 68 degrees Fahrenheit when you're using an air stone, because you're pumping air that's warmer than that through the water, it's actually a really effective way to warm up the water.
Oh, man, that's a really good point, though. I mean, I knew that, like, people used chillers for a reason and why people oxygenated their water, but I never put those two things together, which is, the heat is repelling the oxygens, gassing off the oxygen when the water gets higher, that is a very good point. Yeah, it just
can't hold as much as it gets warmer, it's. Sort of the opposite of like, relative humidity and, well, humidity in the air, you know, as it gets warmer, the air can hold more and more humidity, right, more and more moisture. And as it gets colder, it can hold less and less but in water, it's sort of the opposite of that. As water gets warmer, it cannot hold dissolved oxygen. Well, dissolved oxygen just comes out of solution more water, wow. And in colder water, it stays in solution. So keeping the water temperature low keeps the dissolved oxygen potential high, you have to keep it aerated too, and that forces out sort of the anaerobic bacteria. What happens in reservoirs is the anaerobic bacteria colonized in these sort of anaerobic conditions and start making your reservoir smelly and nasty. If you can actually keep it, you know, 65 to 68 degrees Fahrenheit, then you can go a long time between tank clean out, makes
so much sense, man, and keep that that oxygen high, you know, the high oxygen environment, instead of the low oxygen environment, like you said, for the anaerobic bacteria, that's crazy now, but air stone aside, right? Like I used to see, growers make these really cool PVC rings that sit at the bottom and you pump air into it, I'm surprised that you're saying that shaking your jug of water can introduce oxygen, like those types of things during application. Yeah, wow. All right, dude, that's it
doesn't need to be sort of a continuous thing. So if you are using an air stone, you don't need to continuously run your air stone. Either. You can put it on a timer. And you know, instead of an air stone, when you're running a res, I recommend using a stirring pump. So just a the simplest way to do this is like, get a 60 or an 80 gallon per hour pump, submersible pump, put a little, you know, tube on it that's just high enough to get it above sort of your highest water line in the res, and run it for, you know, five minutes before each fertigation event, just so that to pick the water up and let it splash back down that splashing action, make sure there's some splashing involved. It's not just sort of like pumping it all some submerged, but the splashing creates water droplets that pick up air, sort of in the opposite way that you know when you shake the jug, you're introducing bubbles into the water and that oxygenates the water. When you splash the water, what you're doing is really introducing droplets of water into the air that pick up oxygen then fall back into the water when it's a really effective way to oxygenate and it doesn't heat up the water as much. It has the added benefit of sort of stirring the solution and knocking up any sediment that airstone sort of don't do. So I prefer to do this stirring pump method, but with either method, you only have to do it for a few minutes before each event. You don't need to have those pumps running continuous. Oh
my God, dude, that's great information. Really, really like, clearly putting stuff together in my head never connected the dots before. Okay, but this oh two thing leads right into your story, right?
Well, yeah, we're actually already so let's back up a second. So I'm working with this client, and I've worked with them in the past, but you know, I hadn't been working with them for a while. They had another grower come in who saw things a little bit differently than
me. And, oh, no, this is how it always goes. Yeah, they
went off on their own path for a while. I mean, you know, they had a lot of successes. They had some challenges, as well as most. And
then, like the prodigal son, they returned to Dr Coco with a problem, I assume, right? Hey, we've got a problem that we can't have this other guy fix sort of thing. Yeah, well,
they ended up sort of going in a different direction and deciding that, you know, maybe, maybe I could help them get things, you know, back on track that I had sort of originally envisioned this grow going? So I was really happy to get back involved, and a few months ago. And you know, one of the big challenges that they had been having was just getting enough clones on a consistent basis, so they weren't able to keep the rooms loaded on a consistent basis. And you know, when they could load a room, they were following the original SOPs that I had laid out, and they were growing great plants and harvesting great flower. And you know, were finding a good groove in their market, but it was just a challenge to get enough clones and to sort of stay in production. So, you know, it started there and started really like in the mom room. So I was out there a few months ago, three, four months ago, when I did a site visit and started. In the mom room, like, okay, we're not able to get clones often enough. I mean, we have to work on the cloning issues and really sort of diagnose the cloning issues themselves. But good clones start from good moms, and they had sort of issues with moms, so they hadn't been on high frequency fertigation with the moms. They had had so many issues that they had, like, reverted to hand watering, and they were just hand watering their mom room once or twice a day. They were watering based on sort of another kind of idea about watering, as opposed to, you know, watering until run off.
And, you know, they
had some moms there that were like, oak trees. And I'm not exaggerating when I'm saying like four or five inches in diameter on the main stocks, yeah, growing in these big 10 gallon pots, just massive sort of stocks. And we're super well trained, so they were kind of really Bucha on the top, way, way too dense, really, to take effective clones and struggling with pest issues, various pest issues, sort of to an uninitiated home grower that doesn't normally deal with pest issues, it would be horrifying pest issues. But like in a commercial girl like this, you get kind of used to a lot of these things, maybe too used to them, when to be honest, because they had become a little bit immune to dealing with the pests, and they weren't bothering them as much as they bothered me, sort of when I first walked in there. So we started talking about raising new moms, and how to train the moms and get the moms back on, you know, the dripper system, and do high frequency fertigation with the new moms. And I was really focused on, you know, how to train them out so they don't get so dense like that, and they'll create better structures to take clones from. In the meantime, those old, kind of dense, infected moms, I recommended culling them. So they did that. You know, those those changes, they changed the fertigation. They went back to high frequency fertigation. They started growing a whole set of new moms, and kind of following the plans they laid down about how to train them, and they laid trellis nets, and they started really trying to train the moms out vertically or horizontally. And they got rid of the old big plants and did some treatments for some pests. And, you know, I thought, okay, we're going the right way. I came home I thought like, All right, we're going to get these new crop of moms going. They're going to follow my protocol. We're going to have good moms and, you know, I'm going to lead the them back to success here. And a couple weeks later, all the moms are suddenly getting much worse. Oh, god, oh yeah. Don't you love that? Oh,
it's always it makes your heart sink.
Like, Oh, damn. And now, like, they just call me back, right? And so I want to be like, a competent consultant. I recommend all these changes, and everything gets worse. And now everything is not just worse, it's like, suddenly worse and pretty clearly worse in relationship to changes that kind of I recommended. No, you know what I mean?
I do. I do know what you mean, yeah.
And I mean, I agree, like, the plants look look worse. And I'm kind of like, damn, what's
going on here? Now,
one of the reasons that they had stopped using the drip system in the mom room was because all they had had previous issues, and we had sort of already run down this rabbit hole. So I had already some experience. We thought it was the water temperature that the water was heating up too much between the batch tank, which is held over in their fertigation room, and then it's pumped over to the, you know, Mom room every time there's an event. But like that, line from the fertigation to room is pretty long, and it's like one inch PVC, so there's a lot of water in there, heating
up in the line, yes, and then people should keep an eye on it, especially if it's in the sun outside.
Oh, and the sun outside is terrible, yeah, it really is. Everybody. Regardless of how you're watering, it's best to water with oxygenated water. Your plants will do better if you're watering with oxygenated water, whether you're watering once a week or once an hour, if you're watering once an hour, you have to water with oxygenated water. That's sort of the one of the the slide tricks of high frequency fertigation, as plants start getting all of their oxygen from the water, just like DWC, just like DW. See, but we have to keep giving them oxygenated water in that in that case, anyways, they had already measured, and so that was kind of in the back of my head, because I'm looking at these plants and the clients telling me he's like, we think they're over watered. We had these other guy come in here and he said, they're over watered. You know, our marketing guy, who has a lot of experience, he thinks they're over watered. And of course, increasing the frequency of fertigation and the amount we're watering is like one of the things that I that I changed, and this gets us to like the whole story at the beginning, that over watering is not over watering. It's not about too much water. So it's tough man to to keep your clients sometimes on the line. When you come in, you make a bunch of changes. Everything turns south. No. And now everybody that he's talking to is saying the same thing everybody is saying, it's over watering, it's over watering, it's over watering, it's over watering. Me. I'm the guy that came in and screwed up. I'm here. I'm like, No, it's not.
You gotta trust me. High frequency fertigation, yeah,
you gotta trust me. It's not over watering. Like, like, please don't lose faith yet. Like, don't use faith yet. But I gotta admit, like it looked like what everybody calls over watering, right? So it looked the plant looked droopy and sad and, yeah, you know, like it had been watered too much in a in a media like, if you had a house plant that had been watered too
much, man, that's the thing, though, droop is droop can be deceiving. And people say over watering, because a lot of people do water too often in different medias, and get that true room is too cold, you're going to get a very similar droop to that if you have plants being attacked by pests, specifically root born pests. I've seen plants get droopy just like that, even from things like deficiencies, where I know my plant hasn't been getting the nutrients that it needs, it doesn't get as bad as the over watering droop, but it'll start to droop. So I think the droop is actually misleading for a lot underwatering can cause your plant to droop. So, Oh, absolutely. Drought can
cause your plant to droop. Now let me just comment there. Underwatering is a real thing. Underwatering means, right man, have enough water. The solution to underwatering is give your plant more water. And that's exactly how language should be used to sort of accurately convey good information over watering is not the real problem. The real problem is you're creating hypoxic conditions in the root zone, which means there's not enough oxygen in the root zone. You need to grow in such a way to not create hypoxic conditions in the root zone. Now here's something radical for all the sort of soil based growers, if you are suffering from so called over watering. One solution is to drench with super oxygenated water. Whoo,
damn. Now am I gonna do that? My plants are gonna get worse, like the consults. I'm just joking, yeah, but it makes
sense. That's not how I usually grow in any event. But the reality is, the water that that your plants interacting with, if it has enough oxygen in it, then that's not an issue. The issue is, you're dealing with this stale old water. So when the clients come to me with over watering,
a plant looks like that, right? And I'm
like, it's not over watering. Over watering isn't a thing, right? I'm like, it probably sounded crazy though, Coco, you realize you and I are deep into it. So these things make sense. Yeah, walking up to the guy that owns the facility, and you're like, over watering is not real. Over watering is not real. Everybody else is saying, not only is it real, it's the problem. And this guy that's giving you advice, this sounds like wacko, right? So I credit to my client for sort of like, sticking with me through this stuff. Everybody on the listening is like, wow, this is nuts. So yeah, I'm like, no over watering is not a thing, but I agree that it looked like what people call over watering, so I dove down this, you know, hypoxia answer. I'm like, it's not too much water, it's lack of oxygen. We already know about the water, kind of heating up in the lines, and that's what I'm thinking is the issue. So we get a plumber involved, and we get my engineering buddy, the same one that built me, that doser, gets involved to engineer, sort of a solution so that the water doesn't sit and get stagnant and heat up in between fertigation events. So between us, we developed a really cool solution, actually, that worked primarily with their existing plumbing to. It basically sucked the water back out of the lines at the end of each event, back into the batch tank, where it could be kept at temperature, and then, you know, fed out to the room every time. So it would be kind of fresh water straight from the batch tank that's feeding the plants. Because when you think about it, when we're doing high frequency fertigation, and the reason that this was an issue we thought in the mom room, and it's not an issue in the flower rooms, is because the flower rooms are bigger. The flower rooms have more plants, and each fertigation event in the flower room uses like 30 gallons of water. Each fertigation event in the mom room uses like two gallons of water, so
it was pushing it out more, flushing it out more. You thought that's why you were Yeah, it was clearing out
the lines, probably in the first five gallons of water, and then the rest of the water is good, right? And that was enough good water to keep all the plants, supposedly.
But if that's true, then this solution you implemented, should have fixed the plants fully, right, right?
So we're hopeful of that, right? And we make that change, but that was all done, kind of remote to me, and getting that set up again meanwhile, like, we were deep down that, and I'm kind of thinking that that's the problem. Meanwhile, we decided, okay, I should go back out there, and you know, I'm gonna have the opportunity to be out there. So just at the beginning of June, I go back out to do another visit, and the moms are still looking kind of kind of bleak. The water had been improved, but the temperature issue hadn't sort of fully resolved itself. But almost as soon as walking into, and you're prescient here, Jordan, almost as soon as walking into the room and spending just a little bit of time in the mom room and kind of sitting there and looking at the drippers and making sure, you know, because I'm thinking like, what's going on with the the drip system, with the irrigation systems, inspecting all of that, and just started noticing rice root aphids and fungi. Oh, pretty much every noticing, no, it was pretty bad. And so now, I mean, it was, it was it was bad. The guys there were saying, like, oh, but we've always had some of those. That's they probably
didn't really even notice the difference. They probably had fungus gnats for a long time, and then got the rice root aphids. And didn't realize that those are two totally different animals sort of
thing, perhaps. But I think they had root aphids before. I think that they never, sort of, you know, I think the previous grower felt that there was some level of pest infestation was just gonna happen, and he they grew kind of accustomed, so didn't kind of treat it as a full on emergency when they'd get little infestations and, you know, kind of treat it as it cropped up. But I think it almost became kind of endemic some of these infestations. But the Rice Street aphids were pretty bad. You could see them gathering on sort of the, you know, nodes, where the branches connect to the main stem and on the plant itself, you saw fungus gnats and aphids sort of bouncing around. We hanging out one mom and cut open the root ball, and there were fungus gnats, at least, fungus gnats all the way sort of through into the middle of the root ball. So now I'm thinking, not only is this not over watering, but it's not even hypoxia. You know, I think we've been sort of barking down the wrong hole with the water temperature and thinking about the oxygen levels. And be honest with you, that's probably fine. Well, the changes that we made, no doubt, helped, but I don't think that that's where the problem really applies at this point in any
amount of oxygen going to help that rude Haven infestation. And I think that's where I want people to really drill down and remember, in this episode, you said you were barking down the wrong hole right barking up the wrong tree. That is what you have to keep in mind, is that that is a possibility when you're dealing with stuff in your grow, you literally have to keep the forefront of your mind that you could be completely on the wrong path. It's like the homicide detective we mentioned earlier. You can't just stick with your first hunch. You have to keep your mind open to other possibilities. And they didn't even tell you that, dude, you were remote, so you did
think it was an issue because they saw, yeah, you know, we've got some fungus, fungus gnats. Okay, I got you, I got you, David, but that's, you know, not anymore than there's ever been. I don't think that's the issue. I mean, that's sort of the story that I'm getting. The other thing that's important here is the importance of, sort of, sometimes, you know, a physical visit, and getting your own eyes on. Things, a whole lot of remote diagnosis. I do it all the time for commercial clients, for home growers, on my show, you know, on that stock, Go, Go show or whatever. But this was one of those experiences where, pretty much as soon as I got there, like reality started to shift, and I could see things differently that weren't obvious in any photos, that weren't obvious in the way that the the issues were being described to me, because it looked different to them. They had that sort of a different experience with it. So just they were focused on other aspects of things than than I was.
So yeah, now I'm thinking, all right, we need to go nuclear on these pests, right? We
need to go nuclear on the Rice Street aphids and on the fungus gnats. You mentioned that they're two different pests. They often sort of get confused. They are treated very similarly. So if you get one or the other, the treatments for both are largely the same, and you can do foliar applications of different things. Pyrethrin, azadrachtin, Bavaria Bassiana. Bavaria bassian is great using a combination of different things. Bavaria Bassiana is a beneficial bacteria. Is
that what you ended up going with? Well, we
did a it's involved in the SOP that we put together for this sort of eradication protocol. Consulted with our mutual friend Matthew Gates, who does sort of IPM consultations, and I, I call him infrequently when we kind of butting up against some different IPM issues. And one of the ones that kind of has always rubbed me, and, you know, I've never, I've had my own answer, but I've, I've never really chased it down the rabbit hole with somebody like Matthew gates, before was this question of how to effectively apply pesticidal drenches
in containers, and does
that matter based on sort of how you're fertigating your general fertigation or irrigation strategy and pesticidal drenches. By the way, that might sound scary to a lot of growers, especially organic growers. Organic growers do pesticidal drenches too. Bavaria Bassiana is this organic pesticide that you can put into the water and then drench your substrate with but generally, other than using the word drench, the label will tell you how strong to make the solution. But none of the labels really provide very decent information about how much you should give to plants in various sizes. My
god, you're so right? Rooted leaf nutrients, that's right, they're doing a massive sale for 710, it's active right now. Code grow cast usually gets you 20% off@rootedleaf.com but for this week, only 42% off. That's right, 42% off@rootedleaf.com stock up, go ahead and head over there right now rooted leaf nutrients. Now you don't need to pH these nutrients. You just mix them and let them rip. They're absolutely amazing. They're loaded with beneficial bacteria. It's carbon based nutrients, so it's going to feed the fungi in your soil and deliver that carbon load right to your plants so that it can use what it needs to build all the things that we like, like terpenes and cannabinoids and all that good stuff. Ridleaf.com check out their lush green it's a new version of their nitrogen input. Absolutely amazing. Got which plants need? Their solar rain is their flagship product and also their foundation of their foliar program. It's a wonderful, wonderful product if you want to try that out, or just grab a starter kit if you're not completely satisfied with your nutrient line, if you're ready to throw out the pH pen, go to rootedleaf.com and stock up right now. Code grow cast is 42% off just for this week. So now is the time, if you've been listening to the episodes, go ahead and try it. I know you'll love the results. My plants look amazing right now, and all I'm using is rude leaf and pro mix. Off to the races, baby. Thank you to Nick. Thank you to rooted leaf. Go and try it. You won't regret it. Stop. PH and today it's rootedleaf.com. Code, grow cast 42% off this week only. So go and enjoy folks. Thank you to Nick and thank you to rooted leaf. First of all, I do want to take a second and say shout out to this client of yours for bringing in the big guns, man, like I do want to give them. I know I joke a lot on this show, and there's a lot of like, performative stuff, but honestly, for someone to call you in and then be like, Okay, let's get Matthew gates out here. This is what, this is what all the other cultivators refuse to do. I. And I don't mean to laugh, it's kind of dark humor, but, but they crash and burn. Man, they think they can figure it out themselves. They're not willing to to bring in the experts, or to put in the time or whatever. So shout out for these people for bringing you in and bringing Matthew and figuring, you know,
scared off when successful and sort of immediately and good
call, and they stuck with you as you're trying to tell them that over watering isn't real right now, to follow up on the next point, that's another great point, which is a lot of these products, man, their labels are terrible. Yeah, they're, they're this huge booklet of fine print, and it's all about, you know, fruiting shrubs and trees and the dosages are all in acres and hectares, yeah? Right,
by aerial application, right plane or something. It's like, what the hell, man, how the hell do I use it's doing a three gallon pot here. And let's just think this through for a second, because these pests that you're treating in a field. But imagine a field of lettuce. All right. You got a field of lettuce growing out there in like Oxnard Valley, and you're dealing with pests like rice root aphids. I don't know if they really grow on they attack lettuce, but let's mention that
they do. They probably do,
then they live kind of in the top few inches of the soil. And so what you do is, you, you basically have a dry back the top few inches. The plant roots grow down deeper than that. But the top few inches were all sort of the most of the bad insects sort of live, and that area dries out. You come through with your insecticidal drench, and it goes right through those top few inches, you know, wipes out the pest population, and you resume sort of normal irrigation
in a container. The
pests can sort of occupy the full volume of the container, yeah. And when we're doing high frequency fertigation, it never kind of dries out. There's already water there. So we're sort of watering on top of water, which pushes old water out the bottom. And in an interesting way, when we're watering like that, and basically, when you're watering, in any sense, in a container, there's less mixing in the container than you might think. There's a lot of vertical movement from top to bottom. Water generally leaves the container from the bottom either because that's where the most of the roots, and moves sort of vertically from top to bottom. But it stays stratified. It doesn't sort of mix. So if you change water, you'll get distinct strata, sort of moving through the layers. But how big should that insecticidal layer be like? How should you let the media dry back first, and then water through this stuff? Can you mix it in with the regular fertigation solution if you're watering that way? Like all of these interesting questions, so it's an interesting opportunity to feed through that. I will say we ended up doing azadrachten drenches and Bavaria Bassiana drenches as part of our SOPs. And with both of them cutting consultation with Matthew, we worked out that the dosing quantity I ended up recommending is one pint per gallon of media, one
pint of mixed pesticide. Of the variable, yeah, okay, of the solution, the pest solution, yeah.
If you're in a one gallon pod, just one pint is gonna be your drench. And if you're in a three gallon pod, then three pints is going to be your drench. Welcome to Umar. Here's your pint. It's more than a typical event. But, yeah, okay,
I like that. I like that in my in my head that makes sense is that you need that full drench. Like you said, it's not like working outside, where it's like soil layers. They really like to get around in these indoor grows. They essentially find their way into the Garden of Eden, right? Like that's this is like a dream scenario,
and we cut the root ball open right down the middle, right in the middle of the thing. And there were pests. There were insects, bugs crawling out of everywhere in the middle. So it's not like the bugs are only around the edges or whatever you only need to treat the top inch of your pot, or whatever in a pot you need to kind of treat the whole thing. And we did an alternating, so also a foliar application, and alternated that one treatment every day. I believe they're still doing one treatment every day, like 20 days later,
because that's good stuff, man, the rice root aphid infestation is a nasty one. That's one I've experienced personally back when I did have a little bit of a larger grow back in Humboldt County in those days. And I'll tell you, I brought it up for the droop for a reason I will never forget before I discovered them and I saw that there. Was damage to my plants. I kept going, did I water these wrong? Did I leave these to dry an extra day or water them an extra day too soon, like they look awful, droopy, yeah. And then next thing, you know, there was stuff flying, yeah. And for me, for
a consult on this, you might have been able to get to the bottom of it a little bit sooner, but we were, you know, with the the head, the sort of everybody coming at me with over watering, over watering, over watering, you know, it's not over watering, but it might be hypoxia, you know, I'm trying to, like, agree where I can, but, like, push back. But that sort of led us down sort of that other trail. I do think, like, the changes that we made are beneficial there, but thank God, we also kind of found the bugs. Now this, this isn't sort of the end. I don't know if we have time for me to get into like
the others. Yeah, no, we got another 10 minutes or so. Let's keep let's keep this story. This is
a thriller. Thing that I do on this on this recent visit. You know, the moms were beleaguered with these pests, but they needed to be thinned out still more. And I started really looking at him, the client, wanted to take clones at first. I'm like, I don't think we should. But, you know, he needs to take clones. He needs to load a room. Needs to keep this sort of Operation
up and running. So as we started
cutting and trimming on these pants, I'm like, you know, these clones these cuttings don't look as bad as we might think. So we ended up pulling hundreds of cuttings off of the moms, loading them in the Cloner. I overhauled the Cloner SOP, and kind of made some changes there that I thought was and they've had various issues. Tried all sorts of different you know, SOPs in terms how to run their Cloner. And so I recommended some things there. Got all these, and I personally cut hundreds of these cuttings, you know, and prepared them. And it did, like, a lot of that process, loaded the cloners. And, you know, oftentimes they had been having this issue where, like, the next day, all the plants looked like they were dying. But the next day, all the cuttings looked good, and they were still coming up strong. And the day after that, they looked good. And the day after that, I left, so, you know, they were still looking good when I, when I took off, we also, while I was there, popped some seeds so they could start growing some new moms, right? And they have, like, sort of the registered seeds and their metric database that they have to use. So we went through there their whole sort of like little inventory, and picked out a bunch of plants, and they're going to grow multiple seeds from each variety to, you know, do a little mini Pheno hunt and be able to select the best one from each so we ended up just popping 30 seeds. And this is basically looking for, like, four new moms try to pop 30 seeds, and they were all transferred, you know, we just scoffed soaked and put them into Jiffy pellets. And they were all in Jiffy pellets when I left. So I'm hoping, like, all right, I think we got a handle on this, right? I come home, I'm thinking, we're going to eradicate the pests that are killing the moms. The moms are going to kind of come around. I was feeling good about the clones that we cut anyways, and that we were able to load the cloners, and they're going to be able to load the room as soon as those clones root, and we got some new genetics coming up, and the seeds and everything. And I'm thinking good about this, this trip and everything, right? Jeez, the mom started turning around, which was good, but then all the cuttings started to fail. No, okay, and like 567, days later, they've got now three, now, four of the seeds have sprouted out of 30, like, a week in, it finally ended up with eight out of 30 germinating. All of the clones died, wow. And all the clones ended up getting, like, this slimy stuff on them. What do you attribute
that to? This, the damage they had suffered from the mom plant or something that
happened? I mean, this is like, my competence is, like, solidly on the line, right? My ability to sort of manage this and, like, I stick
stuff, dude, and you're in it, Coco, you're in it, other issues, right?
And they've always had these kind of issues with the Cloner, but the fact that they had the same issue with the seed actually was helpful. I at first I didn't know how these were connected. But whenever I have issues germinating seeds as a last ditch because sometimes seeds just don't germinate for whatever reason, right? Sure. One of the reasons is the seed casing may have dried out too much and not been able to get re imbibed, and it just won't physically break open. And in that case, what you can do is break it open yourself. And if you can crack the seed without injuring the germ plasm, then it can grow the little plant out. They actually make a little device called the seed cracker. Oh,
you're blowing my vibes. Is that thing still around? It just came up on grow cast TV, the seed crack. Cracker, bro, I remember the seed cracker, yeah.
So I wouldn't recommend it as sort of like part of your standard operating procedure, but if you have a seed that doesn't crack after 567, days, I do recommend it sort of as a last ditch effort. In my case, in my experience, you're more likely to kill the seed than to actually successfully crack it, but seeds probably going to die anyway, so your odds, your improved slightly. I just put it between my thumb and forefinger, right along the sort of seam of the seed, and applied pressure into like cracks. But you got to stop applying pressure as soon as it cracks, so you don't smush what's inside, which is right? So I'm explaining this to my client, and he excavates one of the seeds and tries pushing it between his thumb and forefinger, and it just smooshes.
It just smooshes.
And I'm like, oh, that's rocked, and that's an infection. And now we look at the clones are developing sort of this slimy substance on the stubs where there should have been roots, and that's also a bacterial infection. I get Matthew gates back on the line, and he thinks that this is a root inhibiting bacteria that's probably affecting both of them, and that we should inoculate against it. So we are going to start inoculating. We're treating sort of the moms in the mom room. We're going to inoculate the cuttings by dipping them in just root shield plus. And we'll we'll inoculate the seeds by soaking them in a solution of a root shield plus. And he's confident that that may help sort of treat those issues as well. So yeah, now kind of feeling a little bit better, back on solid ground, at least it's good to have an explanation. And yeah, we'll see. I've had those issues before, and I shared some pictures with new Jordan, and I sent him over. You remember seeing the little picture of the little stunted seedlings next to sort of the larger seedling? Yes, absolutely. Have you ever had plants look like that?
I mean, I've seen like runts and stunts for a lot of different reasons, yeah, but this is drastic, like this side by side looks if someone just sent me a picture of this one in the front that I'm seeing, let me try to describe it to you guys. You can tell that it sprouted its cotyledons and then a few sets of true leaves really like, tightly on top of each other, but they're like, wilted, kind of grayish in color. They don't have any pest damage, they don't have any severe nutrient yellowing, they just look very, very thick. I would literally, if they sent me this plant, I'd be like, I'm not sure what you did there. And I would probably throw it to Mary Beth Sanchez and say, What's wrong with this plant? That being said, I know that weird hue to the plant can indicate different bacterial infections, like you said. That is something that Mary Beth has taught me in the plant problems channel. I can't believe there's a nasty bacterial thing on top of but, you know, they go hand in hand. Dr Coco, if those lines were staying a little too hot, that could have been a bigger deal than Yep, you know what I mean. So, so it's like a double red herring. Now, now you focus your attention on the rice root aphids, but maybe that was a big deal to get that temperature down to stop encouraging that nasty bacteria to grow. So
back to those moms. So why did they suddenly get sick two weeks after I left, right, that first time when I changed the fertigation and all of that, and that's what led everybody to think it was over watering. What I actually think happened there is, and I sort of know that this happened. They took out those big oak tree moms, right? And those, those moms were generating a lot of humidity. Out those, those big moms, they were struggling keeping humidity high enough, because there just wasn't a lot of biomass in that room. There's a lot of light. So the air conditioner runs all the time, and the air conditioner is driving the relative humidity down. We ended up lowering the light levels so the air conditioner could work less so that we could key and they moved the humidifiers into that room and all the rest of this. But despite all of those sort of mitigating measures that they took, the VPD went up because the relative humidity dropped, because we took out a lot of biomass from the room, and we removed those big moms. That's
smart
on the roots, yeah, and the roots were just not able to sort of handle that added stress, because they were already under attack pests, right? So as long as they were dealing with a really humid mom room and the roots weren't under a whole lot of stress to take up a lot of water, then, you know, they weren't great, but they weren't terrible. But once you raised jacked up the VPD and forced the plants to transpire more, they they're, you know, it's like stepping on the gas. At all when the engine's not ready for it. So, yeah, that's what I think caused the issue. We had nothing to do with fertigation. Had everything to do with that sort of change in climate when the plants were already stressed.
That does make perfect sense. I probably would just would have chalked it up to the rice root if it's continuing to run amok, right? But like you're saying, if it's an increasing demand on the roots that are being chewed up, yeah, that's that's going to make it even worse. That's
what begged us off of the pest issue in the first place, because they they were convinced something happened suddenly that affected all the plants in the Mara right? And it's like, okay, it can't just be, you know, critical mass was reached. And, like, like, all the plants reacted, something changed, something, frankly, that I recommended they do change. And it's true. I mean, we recommended taking out those big moms. I didn't fully realize, Wow, how much that would change the climate and our ability to
it does. Man, it absolutely does. Yep. I think that's a mistake that a lot of home growers run into, which is like, if you've got a big old tent and little plants space apart in there, the climate is so much different than when those fill out the whole canopy. There's, there's a massive difference when it comes to airflow, when it comes to humidity, the plant putting off moisture in that tent, when it comes to light saturation, yeah, it's, it's absolutely true. So you're in it, man, you're in the streets, as they say in poker, like you're battling it out. You're not just, you're not just sitting back. You got your you got your reputation on the line. I'm glad that you got it sorted. Yeah, it certainly sounds like you nailed a couple major, major points that that'll save these facilities, because, like I said, Man, stuff goes wrong. Farming ate easy. And these facilities, when they don't call in the right guys, they're on their own, and then when they don't, when they don't make the right calls, when they're on their own, they go out of business. So it's crazy. It's crazy out there. Yeah, and that's
what I think they they were staring down right, like they need some help from somebody in some way and or good for them to come to this issue. So, yeah, absolutely good to them. He's actually a long time listener of grow cast, so shout out to him out there. He's listening along, and he's picked up by this point. He's like, Hey, I think MJ, he's talking about us.
Well, listen, I love it. I know I can get a bit performative on the show, but that's awesome. And like I said, shout out to these guys who call in the legacy growers, who actually are humble enough to be like, okay, like, let me get somebody that's all we do, right? We work our way up the ladder, right? MJ, like, you gotta, you gotta reach out to somebody who knows, who knows a thing or two. Man, yeah,
I love coming in and helping growers, you know, resolve their issues. Oftentimes, it's pretty easy, because, like you were saying at the beginning, what are some of the common things that people are doing wrong? And I'm like, Yeah, I'm used to something. So we can kind of check things off the list pretty quickly. But when it really becomes kind of a tough one to diagnose, I think we all end up learning something along the way and uncovering new things and thinking about new relationships and things that sort of disguise themselves as other types of things, like you're talking about, you know, barking down the wrong hole or barking at the wrong tree.
Depends if your plant has sprouted yet or not. So, yeah, dude, I totally agree. And I think just really quickly, I think that that illuminates an interesting point between commercial cultivation and home cultivation, which is when we're dealing with plant problems and helping people. Yeah, it's like commercial cultivation. Everything's hard. Everything's hard. The mom taking cuttings is hard, moms, because it's all at a grand scale, right? Yeah, and you're
all you're dealing with other people, not just yourselves. You're dealing with, you know, $15 an hour employees, our whole team,
that makes everything super, super complicated. Home growers are different. Where you're right, most of the time I'm knocking stuff out. Yo, are you watering to run off? Like, oh, you should really be, like, wanting to run off every single time. Boom, fixes problems. But then occasionally, the home growers hit you with something so bizarre, so out of left field and weird that you like, stop and it has they're like, Yeah, I'm growing in a mausoleum. And you know what? I mean, it's like, so there's no airflow, and they hit you with some weird parameters that, like you said, challenges the way you think challenges you to come up with creative solutions. And I think that helping other growers is one of the best ways to learn more about the plant and your own grow as well. So always
great absolutely is. And you know, some of these things that I've just learned in this, this little journey through this, like, for example, I'm probably gonna start inoculating my my seed soak water. Now I'm doing an inoculation there. I don't see any reason not to. I think I've suffered some similar problems to the germination issue that they're having. So I'm gonna take that and learn from
Dr microbe is M for MJ, stand for microbe, indeed.
Now it does what?
Yeah,
with you gotta keep
learning Jordan. You gotta keep kind of trying new things too, right? Absolutely, when you get experiences like this, and you gotta kind of call in a bunch of interesting minds to resolve them, you're gonna learn stuff. So you gotta keep your mind open to that and be willing to incorporate. That into your your protocol, into your repertoire, as it were. Oh,
I love it, man. This was a dope episode. Thank you for sharing that story with us. Yeah,
I thought they were gonna
benefit from that journey a little bit too. So, yeah, thanks for coming with me. Hope the client doesn't mind. I think we kept it anonymous, and all the guys out there, you know, the it's a great team. I love working with them all, so I don't want anybody out there to feel like I did them a disservice. They're doing a great job, and my goal is to really help them get things running the way. I'm sure we all can, can get their plants in that facility humming. Yeah,
shout out, man. I mean, we have fun on the show, but you guys, you guys, are doing a great job. And Godspeed out there. Dr Coco, with all of all of your work, Coco for cannabis.com, what's the Patreon URL? So we can send people there too. I
am. Dr MJ Coco, on Patreon. So all one word, I think there, yeah, and check out my YouTube channel. Dr, MJ Coco, you can find me on Instagram that way, and, you know, reach out to me through any of those channels, if you're interested in working with me on any of these kind of projects.
I love it, man. Give them a follow on Instagram at Coco for cannabis at Dr MJ Coco, I believe. Yeah, both on Instagram and yeah, stay tuned, guys. We got some more broadcast TV. Coco's coming on. We got some stories to tell. Yeah, I'll be there next week. Or yeah, I'll be there soon. More poker tournaments,
indeed, man. You guys playing with some professionals out here?
Well, we talk about all of it, guys. So thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you again, Dr, Coco, and that's all for today. Everybody. Grow cast podcast.com. Is the website. Go and check it out. And that's all for now. This is Dr Coco and Jordan River signing off, saying, be safe and grow smarter. Bye, bye.
Grow. Love everyone. All right,
everyone, thank you so much for listening. That's our show. Thank you to Dr Coco. Make sure to check out membership. It's the greatest community in cannabis cultivation, growcast podcast.com/membership, I'm in there every single day, helping out members, meeting up in real life, working on resources that they get, you know, visual resource PDF guides, special live streams that no one but the members get. Every single week, they get a short form educational video, plus access to me, access to Mary Beth, access to rich and wolfman and everybody hanging out in membership. We're waiting for you come and jump in. Use the member discounts. You'll save your membership fees back and then some things like 35% off SD microbes, 20% off ok. Call X products, special discounts on Rimrock, analytical Bucha, Earth works, rain science, grow bags, tons of member discounts that no one else is getting save you bucks, and you'll make that membership feedback and then some in no time. So check us out. Growcast podcast.com/membership, that's where you want to be. We're no bull, no drama, no BS, just focusing on the plan, uplifting each other. I hope to see you there. Everybody. Thank you so much to all of the members. All right, everyone, that's it for now. Thank you so much. Be careful out there. Be safe out there, be healthy. We'll see you next time bye, bye. Everyone. You
everybody is saying it's over watering, it's over watering, it's over watering, it's over watering.
