Good morning, everybody. My name is Christopher Maley, it is March 3 2024. And this is a coming to the path talk. I would like to think that I've spent many lifetimes coming to the path and finding the Dharma. But for the purposes of storytelling, I'm gonna stick to this current lifetime. And I'm gonna start the story when I was around eight, or nine. So I grew up here in Rochester, the oldest of four boys. And we were raised Roman Catholic. We were going to Mass each Sunday, and we would go to Mass on every major religious holiday. And we were saying grace at the table before dinner. And now I have no doubt that my parents were firm, believers, my mom at least. But as a child, it never really hooked me. It kind of felt like religion was this compartmentalized thing in our life. And I only ever really talked about God when we were in mass or during grace. And that felt a little inconsistent. I was very inquisitive and curious kid that was really searching for something deeper. And I had this sense that if I'm Roman Catholic, then shouldn't it be more infused into my daily life and not so separate? There was as if there were like two spheres of my childhood life. I would go to school, play with my friends, play video games, build Legos, do a lot of art. And all of that kind of existed in one category. And then separate from all of that, we also went to church. And it felt disconnected. And that disconnection was salient and it and it bothered me. There shouldn't be two categories. this thing we call religion should be more smoothly woven into the activities of my life. And there should only be one category. That was my thinking at the time. And I recognize it might be odd for an eight year old to be thinking in those terms. But that was just the kind of kid that I was. I was pretty serious as a kid. And I was interested in finding something that could guide me through this world. My mom likes to tell this story of when I was around this age eight or nine, I went to a friend's birthday party at Chucky Cheese. And for those of you who haven't been to Chucky Cheese, they have like this stage where life sized animatronic animals put on a concert. And so while all of my friends were up at the front, at the stage, singing and dancing along as the robots were putting on their show, I was at the back of the room, talking to the attendant about whether the robots are like remote controlled by a person, or whether they just have a pre programmed act that they're going through. And that was pretty emblematic of how I was as a kid. I was more interested in how things worked than anything else. And I'm 41 now and I think I'm probably more childlike now than I was back then. So that disposition of like being really interested in how things worked, and searching for a deeper truth, and not finding it in Christianity. set the stage for discovering Zen later on. So for the following years, I continued to go to Mass slowly but surely realizing that Christianity wasn't going to be able to answer the questions that I was facing. And I'm going to fast forward are now to 10th grade. So I'm like 15 or 16. In 10th grade from my global religions class, I was randomly assigned Tao ism as the topic of my final project. So, you know, I wrote five pages on the topic, and I did a presentation to my classmates. Back when doing a presentation meant, you print out a whole bunch of pictures, and you glue them on a poster board, and you bring the poster board up front with you. And you talk about the pictures just before PowerPoint. So the the reading that I did for that project was mainly the dowdy Chang. And that was my first exposure to Eastern thinking. And I fell in love with how imaginative the text was, and how descriptive it was, and how much it differed from Christianity. This quote is from the Tao de Ching. So the sage lives within nature, thinks within the deep, gives within impartiality and speaks within trust. He does not contend and non content against him. And so at, you know, 15 or 16 passages like that were just mind blowing. And I remember being struck by this idea. And I don't know if it appears in the doubt a Ching, if it was just in some other book I was reading for the project. But the message of you don't have to take all of this stuff at face value. Try out these practices, see if they work for you, and if so great, and if not no hard feelings. And it made it very approachable for me. And I remember thinking it was a very reasonable way to present a religion contrasted to the Roman Catholic messaging of this is the way it is. Or at least that's how I perceived the messaging. So from there, I just kept reading, reading everything I could find on Taoism, which inevitably led me to books on Zen. And eventually I found Zen Mind, beginner's mind by Shunryu Suzuki. And in that book, I found everything that was missing. I read that book 100 times. And I was consumed by the idea that I had found it. I like finally found the thing that I was looking for the answers to questions that I didn't even know I needed to ask were in that book. And it was like I found a treasure. And I carried it around with me in my backpack in high school, as if it was actually a treasure. I had a wish fulfilling jewel in my Jansport. And I still have that same copy from high school. So in that book, Suzuki Roshi gives instructions on how to do Zen. And so based on his instructions, I taught myself how to sit. And this is probably like the summer between 10th and 11th grade now. I would practice sitting in my bedroom, in secret. I kept the door closed and I didn't tell my parents what I was doing. My brothers knew that I was interested in Zen and that I was learning about meditation, but my parents did not know. I chose to not share with my parents my interest in Zen. Not because I would have been in trouble by any means. But I knew that my parents would be kind of disappointed because it meant I wasn't going to be a good Christian boy. I didn't want to disappoint them. So I practice then in secret for like the rest of my high school career.
I would use my bed pillows as my zafu and I remember many times, I would be sitting in my bedroom with the door closed, and I would hear one of my parents footsteps coming upstairs. And I would jump up from the floor and throw my bed pillows back on my bed and stumble over to my desk because my legs were asleep. And I would pretend to be doing my homework.
Again, I doubt my parents would have ever said, you can't practice Buddhism, but I didn't want to cause any ripples, or make them disappointed. So my practice developed in this context of solitude. And like, in that sense, it was very personal. I don't think lonely is the right word for how it felt back then. But like no one else that I knew was interested in Zen. So it was just like, I'm doing my own thing. So now we're going to fast forward again to my undergraduate program at at Nazareth College. And I was there studying special education to become a teacher. One day on campus, I saw a flyer for a meditation group that they had on campus, once a week. And so I started going to those. And it, it was weird. Because this was like the first time that I had ever done zozen with other people. It was like a small group, maybe five or six regulars, led by the professor of Eastern religion at NAS. And so once a week, we would set up this little makeshift Zendo, at the altar of the chapel that was on campus. So sitting with that group helped break down the barrier of being comfortable with sitting with other people. And I continued to sit with that group for my entire time at Nazareth. And it was in that group, when I first heard mention of the Rochester Zen Center, I don't think I even knew it existed prior to that. And I remember the professor describing the Zen Center in terms of they are the real deal. They're very rigorous, very strict. I don't know how long it took for me to get to my first introductory workshop. But it feels like it took a long time to summon the courage. I was nervous about, I think mainly being an outsider, a rigorous structure and atmosphere, joining a community of practitioners that are all very comfortable practicing with each other, which only served to highlight the fact for me that my practice was forged in solitude. And even though I had that experience of sitting with the group at NAS, it kind of felt like this was going to be a much larger step to take. And so there was this long period years of like wanting to join the center, and to be part of the community. But avoiding doing so for fear of making a fool of myself. This thing Zen that I valued so much at this point in my life. I ended up avoiding joining a community because I was afraid of just screwing it up. And that's a common dynamic with nervousness and avoidance. The things that we avoid can often be the things that we value the most. And so I lived in that space for a while. Wanting to go to the center, but avoiding doing so because it allowed me to escape the potential of embarrassment. And I was just in a hamster wheel at some point, luckily, I got sick of it. sick of being a slave to my own avoidance. And I say I was lucky because some people never find their way out of that cycle. And so I just went for it. I signed up for an intro workshop, and it was great. Everyone was super awesome. I really enjoyed hearing Roshi, talk a little bit about the Dharma Heir had vibed with my understanding. And I started coming on Tuesday nights pretty regularly for beginners night. And I was like, sweet, I made it over that hump. I'm a member of the Zen Center. But unbeknownst to me, I still had one foot in the hamster wheel. So there was like one or two weeks, where I wasn't able to come on a Tuesday. And I remember after like those two weeks had passed, I got in my car on a Tuesday night getting ready to come to Arnold Park. And I was reviewing Zendo etiquette in my head, just to be sure that I like had it all. And I remember specifically getting stuck on. Okay, we're sitting in zozen, and the bell rings, and then we bow, and then we stand up. And do we bow again? Or do we just put our hands in keyname posture. And I couldn't remember. And the thought of screwing that up in the Zendo was enough for me to turn off my car and head back into my apartment. And I didn't go to another sitting for a long time. What a cruel trick the mind plays on us. For fear of embarrassment, you avoid the thing that you love. It is both funny and sad how much time I wasted in that mental space.
So I think it was years before I eventually came back to Arnold Park. And I remember very clearly what it was that brought me back. There was a small announcement in the weekly center emails about the youth program looking for more volunteers. And it was like contact Errol, if you're interested. And that piqued my interest, because as a teacher, I had a great deal of experience working with kids. And so I almost saw it as a sign as if the Dharma was saying, Hey, if you need a little help getting back to that thing that you value, here's an inroad. And I had no idea who Errol was. And I had no idea, the role that she would eventually play in my life here. But I emailed her. And I told her, Hey, I'm a teacher, I saw the blurb we'd love to help out. And she invited me in. And I started helping out on Sunday mornings with the Zen kids. And it was at that point, after I'd been volunteering with the youth program for a few months, that I was able to drop the I'm an outsider story. And I want that to be one of the messages that people walk away with. If you're new here, and you feel like you really want to discover the reason why the Sangha is considered to be one of the Three Jewels, you should volunteer some time here. Maybe with the youth program, shameless plug. But that's how the jewel revealed itself to me, was through volunteering. And it was through the act of volunteering that allowed me to see that engaging with the things that you value, while also accepting that sometimes you might be uncomfortable, and sometimes you might make a mistake is just the way you move through life. And so after a few years of volunteering with the youth program, with Errol at the helm, I started to take on more responsibilities within the group. And at a certain point, Errol asked me to become the coordinator of the group. And I was more than happy to do so. I want to take just a couple minutes and say a few words about Errol because she had a major role in my coming to and staying on the path. Every Sunday morning when I was with her in the Zen kids She demonstrated how it is that bodhisattva interacts with children whenever we would like start to lose the kids attention, or they started to get a little wily Errol would use this perfect combination of skillful means and compassion to bring them back. And it appeared effortless. Even as like a fully trained educator in my own right, I was constantly impressed with her ability to do that. When the children would ask a question about like the moral of the story that we had just read, Errol would respond instantly with an answer that was both fully accessible for them, and in some other way, also profound. And if you don't know, Arielle, she's not just like that with kids. That's what it's like to talk to her. And just like chit chat. She embodies the Dharma. And I think I've mentioned this to her before, but before coming before becoming Roshi is formal student. And before becoming Daraa. Sensei is formal student. I considered Errol, my informal teacher. And I still do. She led the way for me back then. And she lit the way for the Zen kids back then too. And it came as no surprise to me when years later, Roshi would give me the Dharma name of way light. Arrow lit the way back then and, and now it was my turn.
So anyway, thank you, Errol.
So becoming the coordinator of the youth program takes us to like five years ago. And the time since then, has been filled with attending my first and many subsequent sessions, joining other short term committees, then really trying to configure the youth program in a way that will be most effective as like the makeup of the Sangha continually shifts. So to sum everything up here, as best I can, I'd say, to not forget that the Sangha is one of the Three Jewels. The first two thirds of my life as a practitioner was spent focused on Buddha and dharma. But there is power in the Sangha. And the way you find that power is through giving yourself to it. I want to end with a passage by choke him Trungpa Tibetan advisory on a Master who taught in the United States in like the 70s and 80s. And this is from a small book, titled mudra. And in this book, he gives very short commentaries on the 10 ox herding pictures, and this is his commentary on the 10th. nirvana kya is the fully awakened state of being in the world. Its action is like the moon reflecting in 100 bowls of water. The moon has no desire to reflect but that is its nature. This state is dealing with the earth with ultimate simplicity, transcending following the example of anyone. It is the state of total flop or old dog. You destroy whatever needs to be destroyed, you subdue whatever needs to be subdued, and you care for whatever needs your care. Thank you for buddy.
All right, q&a,
but before we do that,
Joe and I need to just do a couple of things. Before we can start with that,
connect with the people online
There's plenty of time. How long does it go for? I'll turn it off when need be, but we've got plenty of time Okay?
Should they do you sound? Can you hear us? I can hear you. Can you hear us?
We can. Okay actually, since
I'm speaking to you, why don't we start with people online? If anybody has anything.
So if anybody has anything you can raise your hand or just go ahead and unmute. You have any questions or comments?
It's me, Susan, out in Colorado. Hi, Chris. Hi, Susan. Hi. Because of COVID I never got to do the children with you. It was something I was slated to do. And I always thought about that. And I wanted to tell you that I just love what you said about Sangha. And about the gifting. And it reminded me of a podcast that Roshi gave on Valentine's Day ones. And he said loving is giving Thank you. Thank you
anyone else online? Alright, so we'll go back to the to the arm partendo. And folks, I know sometimes it can take a moment for it to come to bubble up to the surface what you have to say. So if there's time, we'll get back to the people online. That cute.
All right, thanks. Anyone here?
Chris, one of your brothers was here at the center. I think before you came Vinny, were you influential in getting him?
Tell me about that. Yeah, yeah. So in high school. As I started to read more, all my brothers eventually became interested in eastern thinking. And yet the brother that's just younger than me, Shawn, yet came to an introductory workshop before I did. And eventually made his way to xo Chen and VAs Rihanna practices. Yeah, he's got a four year old now who will like sometimes be running around the house, chanting the song of the Vasa, which is like a Zope Chun chant. And my mom babysits him. So, you know, she's come a long way as far as accepting Eastern thinking. Yeah.
Yeah. So Chris, on that note,
when you outed yourself, what was your mother's initial reaction?
There was a short period that was very uncomfortable. And then there was a period where it wasn't talked about. Like after I went to college, I think I stopped when I would come home. I wasn't going to mass with them anymore. My mom knew that I was interested in Zen. And we just didn't really talk about it. But now everything's out in the open and much more healthy.
I have to ask this a little selfish on my
part, but I'm just curious about if you like the communion and
confession and what was that, like, especially confession like being in that box? It
was, yeah, I did all that. And it was. It was very uncomfortable because I wasn't digging it. And it was I knew that it wasn't for me, but I felt obligated to go through all the motions and So it was it was very weird that
having come from a Christian background and then coming into Buddhism as a you came from very Catholic and Buddhism, Buddhism is pretty much universally mystic. Have you ever, like looked back at different, like mystic groups of Christianity like the Gnostic? You just kind of not wanted to associate with it because you have that
kind of Catholic? Yeah, that's good question. I had this conversation with Bill just a couple of weeks ago, the way I can now look back and see, I'm not interested in the mystical aspects of Catholicism, but I do now see the value in devotion to religion. You know, I can, I can now understand and respect people that draw their strength and faith from Christianity in general, which I probably wasn't able to do. Back then.
Yeah, just mentioning, the connection between and disconnect between Christianity and, and Buddhism might be worth mentioning, you know, I, when I would visit my family in California, I would often take my aunt to mass, she couldn't drive in her old age. And I vividly remember one time the priest sermon could have been teisho, given by a Zen teacher. So there's obviously been some interferes, one of the things he he spoke about the famous story of Jesus and the Pharisees were the Pharisees wanted to stone, a woman to death for committing adultery. Yeah. And you know, Jesus says, like he who is without sin cast the first stone. And the whole theme of the sermon was the difference between Jesus and the Pharisees was that Jesus has no self and no judgment. And the Pharisees are all filled with ego and, and righteousness and judgment and so on. But it really impressed me that it could have almost been a talk given by his empty chair. Yeah,
yeah. That's interesting.
Chris, this is Dan, I had a question for you. So it seemed like when you first came here, and that form, kind of formality of it brought up the anxiety for you? Was it the anxiety? Or was it the formal this I'm just wondering, because this was an issue for a number of people. Here, that was the trigger.
I think what I wasn't able to see at the time was the fact that like, the formal structure of what we do here is undergirded by compassion. Like that part, I missed that in the beginning. And so now able to being able to clearly see that it doesn't evoke anxiety anymore, because I know what's at the foundation of all this. But at the time, I didn't make that connection, I think.
I'm just curious about the teenage
years, it seems like sort of a unique experience that you've had details of stepped up to here.
I remember pushing my mind to an extreme degree, possibly, to a fault. I remember like pushing my mind to an extreme degree to the point where I would I would cry in zozen in my bedroom
saying the question that it actually might be much more stressful than
purely inquisitive venture. Stress.
Yeah, and being surrounded it being in a context where I was doing it in secret. Yeah, right.
When you like working and you're meditating, how did you find like, I still will to do it. Because as a teenager, I couldn't really see myself having a consistent practice on my side was here.
Yeah, I was a very inquisitive kid. And that aspect Have me is kind of what drove my, my inspiration to practice. I was just really interested and questioning a lot
Yeah, go ahead.
So I said a question. Similar appraising Baptist myself. And I actually had a long period of time when I was without any, any kind of formal teachings at all, you can make that move directly even after all this time, is I guess. So my question is, did you ever think these are the people they told me about in Sunday School to Watch out for teaching they're like, this is the only way and there's going to be these other you know, I don't you probably were taught similarly that you know, these other forces may come into your life and if that was ever a thought in your head, something that was Yeah.
The what resonates for me with that, is that it part of the reason why I didn't want to disappoint my parents was because I was worried about them having to explain to their friends that my oldest son is into some like really occult stuff, you know? So that aspect kind of relates to what you were talking about. Yeah, that my parents would have seen it as very weird to be interested in this so
shoved in here. Yeah, I had this experience I was around Southern Baptist. So they would say things like mysticism it starts with myths and the essence schism this is just Yeah, it's bad Right?
Right. It's very bad.
A case Can I Can I jump in that I heard someone say this is juice I heard someone says say Zen also Southern Baptists. Zen let's the devil in
very catchy
Yeah, and just to mention people asking questions, Michel your next is just raise your voice to so we can make sure everyone can hear
how would you say that
you're
practice or connection with the Senator has informed your ability to be a teacher? Oh.
That's interesting. I mean, certainly, it allows me to see workplace stress from a different perspective it's also and this is you know, might go down a rabbit hole but like there's a connection between once you're a teacher for X amount of years, you get to see a kid go from five years old to 15 years old. And perceiving time in that way, just watching someone grow up you know, there's a relationship between what happens to your perception of time there and what happens to perception of time while on the cushion. So yeah.
Anyone else? Anyone online?
I mean more.
Online, have any questions or comments, leave,
I wanted to thank you very much for shining your light in my direction. And I feel that I have a more complete understanding of what I'm doing with them because of you. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
Hi, Chris. Hi. What are you mentioned? You're inquisitive. Oh, What are you getting inquisitive about?
So I do a lot of abstract painting as a hobby. And, and that, you know, there's interesting relationships between Zen and painting. And that's kind of where I'm putting my mind these days. Exploring art.
So, yeah.
And last question, Joey.
Yeah, what what you're used to being a special education teacher.
So I was the oldest of four brothers and I grew up just babysitting them all the time. And then through high school, I was a camp counselor and a camp director. And my my freshman year of college, I went to go study art at Alfred University. And I just, like was doing drugs all the time and failed out. And then came back home and switched career paths to education just because that was a skill set that I had already almost fully developed anyway. Special education came into the mix just because that's how NAS structured their program. And I applied to a bunch of Gen Ed jobs and a bunch of special ed jobs in Special Ed was the first one that I got so went down that
